Pamet FS14

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PametBW
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by PametBW »

Thanks Joe2700!
I would fill both those pinholes and the holes for the stitches. You can save yourself grinding down again though. As long as your putty is from the same system as your laminating epoxy then just put some putty on them right before you apply your tapes. The tapes will flatten the putty right out but you won't have a void. Whenever I'm about to do a fiberglass layup if there are some minor holes or low spots on the surface I just put a dab of putty on them right before I start.

This tip about filling the pinholes is perfect, psyched that I am using all System Three materials. I will definitely follow this guidance!



PametBW
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by PametBW »

Thanks again Joe2700!
This is one example of when working wet on wet save you time.

This being my first time, it has been interesting to see all the build threads where "wet on wet" is mentioned. My sense is that it is a newer way to put on the tape, as opposed to laying down the tape, pouring a line of epoxy down it, and spreading the epoxy with a spreader/roller.
The idea of wetting the tape on plastic on a workbench (although the tape will be longer than my 8' bench...), rolling up the plastic, and rolling it out in place is attractive. It does seem efficient and that it would probably at least as easy to learn - so I think that I will move in that direction.

My list of tasks (hoping to get out there tomorrow) is:
- hand-sand the corners of the transom (where the tapes will all meet)
- cut the pieces of tape for the six seams (3 that run the length of the boat + 2 from chine to sheer on transom corners + one atop the transom)
-lay out the tapes to see that they lay smoothly in place
- fill in the pinholes and the stitch holes
- paint one seam with epoxy before soaking the matching tape on plastic on the workbench then rolling that tape up and moving it to the boat where it will be unrolled. Use a roller to get it flattened and fixed in place
- repeat the previous step until the tapes are all on the hull
I hope that anyone with questions or advice will let me know.
This vision makes me feel pretty excited. Thanks again for the advice Joe2700!

Fuzz
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by Fuzz »

Working wet on wet does not mean wetting the glass out on a table and moving it to the boat. Wet on wet is laying another layer of glass over one that has not fully kicked. If you are using glass with mat stiched to it like 1708 then wetting it out on a table first works well. If not wetting the glass right in place works better for me. The no mat glass will tend to lose its shape or fall apart if you try to move it.

PametBW
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by PametBW »

Fuzz!
You are awesome, I really appreciate the way you're looking out for me. This is all uncharted waters for me, with a lot of opportunity for my ignorance to get me in trouble over my head...
When I got up this morning, I took a sip of coffee and opened up this forum - trying to build the first boat is an entirely new process - challenging and interesting.
Guess the first step is going to be open up the tape and see if it is matted
Thanks!

joe2700
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by joe2700 »

Yea wet on wet just refers to applying the next epoxy layer over a previous one that has not fully cured. You get a chemical bond, so you don't need to sand the previous layer to make the surface rough for a mechanical bond. Each epoxy will specify how many hours this window lasts before you have to sand for a mechanical bond.

Whether you are working wet on wet or not you can wet out your tapes in place or on a table and move them. I prefer on a table even for thin 6oz tape, Fuzz prefers wetting tape like that in place. Just personal preference have to see what works better for you.

Note I am talking about premade 6" wide fiberglass tape for the seams. I wet out the full width fiberglass cloth in place as I'd never be able to move it around prewet and it would start to cure before I had a chance.

Fuzz
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by Fuzz »

Joe and Dan are both correct. There is always more than one way to skin the cat. You just need to find the way that works best for you.

Dan_Smullen
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by Dan_Smullen »

FWIW, I found that laying wetted FG on tacky, pre-wetted surfaces was incredibly effective on vertical surfaces. This drastically reduced my tabbing time on my stringers, even though I was half way through it when I figured it out. This might be the only way to do overhead work too. For flat surfaces, you might as well saturate the cloth in place.

PametBW
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by PametBW »

Thanks for all the information and support Fuzz, Joe, and Dan. It gave me the confidence to apply tape to the seams today.

I used a half of Dan's idea about using a wet surface to hold the fiberglass tape in place and then coating it.

It is probably routine for you, but using that to spot tack the tape in place was really helpful.

I found that my tendency was to use the brush too much in all phases of the game. In retrospect, I think it would have gone quicker and smoother if I had done more pouring (as opposed to using the brush to move the glue from the cup to the boat). I also used the brush too much in the spreading process. It went better with the plastic spreader - but I kept going back to the brush and smearing stuff around. Hopefully I re-learned that lesson enough times to let it actually stick.
Another mistake that I made (I think) was putting on too much glue. It looked okay when I walked out of the shop.

After going into the house, I realized that I didn't have any pics of the progress. After a bit I headed back out, hoping to get interesting enough pics to get someone to offer advice on how to proceed.

When I returned a while later there had been quite a bit of downward dripping/running...
Fortunately I was able to spread out the most intense "rivers."
Unfortunately I was not able to rescue the little bird that provided constant disruption in the shop today. I forgot to flush him out of the shop before I left and he was stuck in the glue like a fly in flypaper. I did my best to help release him - but prospects of his seeing another sunrise are slim.
Bow taped.jpg
Bow taped.jpg (112.3 KiB) Viewed 190 times
Forward Starboard and Keel taped.jpg
Forward Starboard and Keel taped.jpg (129.36 KiB) Viewed 190 times
Forward Port and Keel taped.jpg
Forward Port and Keel taped.jpg (134.86 KiB) Viewed 190 times
Aft Port taped.jpg
Aft Port taped.jpg (112.58 KiB) Viewed 190 times
Starboard transom taped.jpg
Starboard transom taped.jpg (116.29 KiB) Viewed 190 times
Unintended carnage...
Keel Carnage taped.jpg
Keel Carnage taped.jpg (100.76 KiB) Viewed 190 times
Either tomorrow or Sunday I hope to make some progress covering the hull with cloth.
My vision is to start at the transom and work forward.
I will be working alone, so I think I will try to cut two or three pieces and do it in sections with 4-6 inches overlap.
Thanks in advance for any advice or guidance.

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OrangeQuest
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by OrangeQuest »

Looks good other than the feathers!

I like to use a 3" roller with a 1/4" nap to roll epoxy on tape and 6" roller for cloth. You get a more even coat, faster spread. I found some containers that are about 4" wide and about 8" long that work great as a rolling pan for both size rollers. Because you are "rolling" the epoxy around, it doesn't kick as fast in the pan so more time to get it where you need it. No runs or drips. The rollers are small diameter so when you are laying tape on inside corners with wet fillets, the roll helps squeeze the tape into the fillet and form prefect fillets at the same time.
"that it isn't just an ordinary sort of boat. Sometimes it's a Boat, and sometimes it's more of an Accident. It all depends." "Depends on what?" "On whether I'm on the top of it or underneath it."
A. A. Milne

PametBW
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by PametBW »

Thanks OrangeQuest!
Rollers are a great idea and make perfect sense to me.
My vision had been pouring to pour the epoxy onto the cloth and spread it around with brushes/spreaders; a roller is definitely a better tool.
I have painted floors by pouring straight out of a can and spreading with a roller and am wondering about pouring epoxy and spreading it with a roller - especially because I don't have a clear picture of a 4"x8" container that I could use...
Another thing that I have trouble picturing clearly is how the sheet of FB will fit around the corners (especially at the transom) without needing to be folded or having cuts and overlaps (darts?).
I am looking forward to the next step.
Thanks again OrangeQuest.

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