Pamet FS14

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Fuzz
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by Fuzz »

From what I can see you did pretty good getting the glass down. That was a lot of glass for a new builder. You will get better as you go along. Everyone who has built more than one boat will tell you things get better with practice.. It is hard to see the bubbles you are speaking about so maybe post some pictures of those spots. Most folks will cut a piece to fill in the missing areas. Do not try to wrap it over and back up, all you will get is a mess. You can let the edge run long and either trim it while still green with a razor knife or let it go off and then trim it. The places that look rough to you now will clean up pretty quickly with the sander.



Dan_Smullen
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by Dan_Smullen »

That glass doesn't look too bad. You're fine...

You can drill holes in bubbles, one for entry, and one for relief, and inject thickened epoxy into the void. It is really rather satisfying, and much more fun than grinding them down and covering.

Looking at the sides, I would perhaps sand the edges of the glass on the sides, and lay a new sheet over the side dry. Pin it or hold it in place overlapping the chine, and then mark it with a sharpie where you would like to cut it. Overlap at the chine is good, and some margin of overlap, 3"-4", at the existing glass is good too. A squeegee applied layer of thickened epoxy on the cured edges of existing glass will fill any small voids that would otherwise turn into air pockets under the glass you will lay on the sides. Let hang over the chine, and as Fuzz said, trim it when it is still green, or even cured.

PametBW
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by PametBW »

Covering the sides of the hull took longer than I had predicted, but I had a lovely day to do it (75 degrees). It was also much messier than I thought. The dripline of epoxy on the floor made me feel like a toddler but very grateful to Pee Wee for advising me to put down some resin paper to protect the shop floor!
cloth down port side looking aft.jpg
cloth down port side looking aft.jpg (132.67 KiB) Viewed 210 times
Before I started the process of putting cloth on the sides I had a chance to survey the previous work in the cold, cruel light of day and was surprised by how good it looked. That Fuzz couldn't see all the bubbles I had imagined was accurate. The lighter (white) spots that I thought were bubbles did not seem like air pockets or voids, they did not move when I pushed them with a screwdriver. That made me feel pretty good, so I started mixing epoxy and trying to get it on the sides - despite appearances I was not just pouring it on the floor... Actually, I started the process by following Dan's advice and mixing up some putty to smooth the surface at the edges of the cloth that I had just put on the bottom. That was really great advice, when I went around the boat it was easy to see that it would have been impossible to get a layer of cloth to have good contact in some places. The darker putty is visible under the fresh cloth in this pic.
starboard side looking forward.jpg
starboard side looking forward.jpg (115.97 KiB) Viewed 210 times
Overlapping the chine by 3-4 inches was another great piece of advice from Dan. As most of you know, it is much easier to get the cloth to stay in place if it is not all vertical; the horizontal edge really helps hold it in place. I am sure that it will also make the boat stronger but honestly, right now my focus is on one simple task at a time. It will be nice to be able to appreciate the big picture, but that is somewhere down the line...
One thing that I did that will save me some time and meterials was to measure the liquids in cups but pour them into a plastic tub, the kind that OrangeQuest recommended and mix them in the tub. That let me use just one pair of cups for hours of work. I know that didn't save me much, but it definitely reduced the number of cylindrical epoxy castings that would have been sitting around the shop. The plastic tub with the rollers is a really good match for me. One work pattern that I used was to use the roller to transport the liquid to the cloth and to smooth it out while holding the tub immediately beneath the shear edge to catch the liquid draining off the side.
I do have a question about the use of rollers. I think they are a great tool but, by the time I get finished applying epoxy the early batches seem to have welded the roller to the handle. I have used both my roller handles twice and ended up with the roller permanently attached to the handle both times. This time I had to use my 12" handle with the 9" roller. I remembered to try to pull it off immediately when the work session was finished (admittedly, last time I left it on overnight which was obviously unwise). Please let me know.
1. How do you get the rollers off the handles?

The other question that I have is about Dan's suggestion about drilling holes (the two holes makes sense to me) and injecting putty into any voids. I am wondering:
2. What tool do you use to inject the putty?

I am going to post the other pics that I took of this work session below, but really want to say THANK YOU! Getting out in the shop and trying to learn to build boats has really made my life richer. It does add some level of stress to life, but it is kind of a creative stress (in reality the stakes are pretty low) which I think makes life more interesting. I also really appreciate the sense of community that you all have created in this forum. The support and advice make my life better every single day. Thanks again.
starboard side of bow.jpg
starboard side of bow.jpg (121 KiB) Viewed 210 times
port side of bow.jpg
port side of bow.jpg (129.81 KiB) Viewed 210 times
port side mid to stern.jpg
port side mid to stern.jpg (117.62 KiB) Viewed 210 times

Dougster
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by Dougster »

Sure looks good to me. Re getting the rollers off the handles, I just grab the roller with my gloved hand when finished, well before the epoxy kicks off and pull. Dito on this comunity and the creative stress enriching life.

Dougster

Dan_Smullen
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by Dan_Smullen »

PametBW wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 7:18 am

The other question that I have is about Dan's suggestion about drilling holes (the two holes makes sense to me) and injecting putty into any voids. I am wondering:
2. What tool do you use to inject the putty?
Last ordered by me, March 2021, and I still have a few left in the drawer.
https://www.amazon.com/Frienda-Measurem ... _d_rp_15_t

Progress looks great. 3 Years ago this was all new to me too. To be able to give good advice based on my experience makes me feel good to. We are all glad to help. When I started on this forum, the objective advice from the core group on here was indeed notable.

In the midst of the project, therapy came to me within the need to focus on the micro detail. One could go mad looking at every minute step of this boat building process, but in focusing o the simplest of tasks, drilling a hole in a bubble, we can usually enjoy some success. This process also teaches us new techniques to be used in other building and thinking exercises.

You are in good company! Keep it up, and enjoy that you are almost 1/8 of the way to completion!

PametBW
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by PametBW »

Thanks Dan! It feels like very good company indeed.
I've been away for a few days and hope to get the rub rail built up and in place before the low temperatures move me on to other projects for the winter.
The steps, as I see them include:
1. Remove the fiberglass that dripped beyond the sheer to the edge of the sheer. My first choice of a tool is a Sander with a gritty (80 or 60) disk.
2. Sand the side of the boat on which the rub rail will be glued because the epoxy below has been curing for a week.
3. Glue and clamp the first of three layers of 1/4" plywood using straight epoxy starting from the bow. (I do wonder if it would be wise to use putty where the surface is not perfectly flat...???). Starting at the bow lets me control the overlap without precise measuring.
4. Obviously I don't have strips that match the length of the boat. The longest strips I will have to work with are 8'. I plan to make simple butt-joints where the strips meet.
5. Offset the joints so there are no joints immediately on top of the one below.
6. I won't worry about the length of the rail during the process. I believe it is okay to simply run them long and cut them later.
7. Continue the process for the 2nd and 3rd layers of plywood
8. After researching this step, as managed on other build threads, maybe I should start by going out and buying 60 spring clamps...

Questions:
Should I use some putty under the first layer of plywood?
Is it best to cut an angle into the bow-end of the strip before gluing it in place or is it best to glue it on and cut it later?
Please do give me any advice on this process, especially regarding how to handle the spot on the bow where the rails meet.
Thank You!

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VT_Jeff
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by VT_Jeff »

Hi Pamet,

Here are some of my thoughts for you, worth every bit of the bytes they are printed on.
PametBW wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:13 pm 1. Remove the fiberglass that dripped beyond the sheer to the edge of the sheer. My first choice of a tool is a Sander with a gritty (80 or 60) disk.
Fully-cured epoxy is much easier(and healthier) to sand/grind than epoxy that is at all green. Keep this in mind.
PametBW wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:13 pm 2. Sand the side of the boat on which the rub rail will be glued because the epoxy below has been curing for a week.
Yeah, just need to take the shine off it and key it with some 60. For future reference, not a bad idea to mask this area before glassing so you're bonding wood to wood, if you prefer that type of bond.
PametBW wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:13 pm 3. Glue and clamp the first of three layers of 1/4" plywood using straight epoxy starting from the bow. (I do wonder if it would be wise to use putty where the surface is not perfectly flat...???). Starting at the bow lets me control the overlap without precise measuring.
I would not use raw epoxy for this, I would use a thickened mixture. I used gel-magic for this type of bonding work, but you can just thicken some epoxy with wood flour, keep it pretty wet. Ideally you would pre-coat the raw wood surfaces with un-thickened epoxy to avoid dry-suck.
PametBW wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:13 pm 4. Obviously I don't have strips that match the length of the boat. The longest strips I will have to work with are 8'. I plan to make simple butt-joints where the strips meet.
45 degrees will work here.
PametBW wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:13 pm 5. Offset the joints so there are no joints immediately on top of the one below.
6. I won't worry about the length of the rail during the process. I believe it is okay to simply run them long and cut them later.
7. Continue the process for the 2nd and 3rd layers of plywood
8. After researching this step, as managed on other build threads, maybe I should start by going out and buying 60 spring clamps...

Questions:

Should I use some putty under the first layer of plywood?
If you use a thickened mixture, it won't matter.
PametBW wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:13 pm Is it best to cut an angle into the bow-end of the strip before gluing it in place or is it best to glue it on and cut it later?
Please do give me any advice on this process, especially regarding how to handle the spot on the bow where the rails meet.
Alternate the strips at the bow: port long/starboard nested, then starboard long/port nested, then port long/starboard nested. Cut the long piece to length before the next layer. Pilot this method with some scrap, it's simpler in practice than in explanation.
There are only two seasons in Vermont: boating season, and boat-building season.

Completed Paul Butler 14' Clark Fork Drifter
Completed Jacques Mertens FS14LS + 10%, Build Thread
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VT_Jeff
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by VT_Jeff »

Btw, I would only do one layer at a time, let it partially cure to where you can safely remove clamos, then start the next. I would def not attempt 3 or even 2 layers in one session. Maybe the pros would, but I would not.
There are only two seasons in Vermont: boating season, and boat-building season.

Completed Paul Butler 14' Clark Fork Drifter
Completed Jacques Mertens FS14LS + 10%, Build Thread
Started Iain Oughtred Tammie Norrie

PametBW
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by PametBW »

Wow Jeff! Thanks, you made my day already.
All of your suggestions make perfect sense to me, especially nesting and alternating long/short layers... actually especially practicing the process makes the most sense of all to me.
I think that Reid recommended/sent me some gel-magic that I put on a shelf and forgot about because I didn't know what it was or what to do with it... psyched to look in the shop and see.
Your reply is exactly what I needed to get started; I got kind of bogged down yesterday trying to visualize what to do next but now I am looking forward to the next steps.
Thanks again!

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cape man
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Re: Pamet FS14

Post by cape man »

60 is a lot, but impossible to have too many clamps in the shop! Have missed this build till now but your work looks fantastic, your attitude is perfect, and yes...this forum is the bomb! Keep on building!
The world always seems brighter when you've just made something that wasn't there before - Neil Gaiman

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