knottyBuoyz III The TW28 Project

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fallguy1000
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Re: knottyBuoyz III The TW28 Project

Post by fallguy1000 »

My wiring is all digital. It is all backfed, so none of the switching is in line. Took me awhile to comprehend it all. And I'm a little scared of troubleshooting failure.

And all configured via software. This is different, of course, but still a lot with 27 circuits.

I don't understand how you can tie all the grounds. The only way you can do so is by right sizing the conductor each time. Those grounds are all supposed to go to a bus. And from that bus, you size the wire for the appropriate total load to the battery or another bus, etc.


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Re: knottyBuoyz III The TW28 Project

Post by Knottybuoyz »

fallguy1000 wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 7:30 pm My wiring is all digital. It is all backfed, so none of the switching is in line. Took me awhile to comprehend it all. And I'm a little scared of troubleshooting failure.

And all configured via software. This is different, of course, but still a lot with 27 circuits.
I wish I knew more about accomplishing this digitally but I don't. It is a bit of an experiment.
fallguy1000 wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 7:30 pm I don't understand how you can tie all the grounds. The only way you can do so is by right sizing the conductor each time. Those grounds are all supposed to go to a bus. And from that bus, you size the wire for the appropriate total load to the battery or another bus, etc.
I think in essence I'm creating a buss by tying the grounds together. I may switch the Euro connectors to a buss. All are very low load, 1.5mA @ 12V and 2.3mA @ 120V. The conductor size is what is on the LED's and I'm assuming they're capable of carrying any load to the LED. Tying the groups together with a slightly larger conductor all run to the switch (except AC circuits). I'll try to put together a dwg.
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Re: knottyBuoyz III The TW28 Project

Post by Jaysen »

There’s nothing candy about digital signaling. The basic circuit is the same as any relay. The fancy part is what/how the relay is managed. In cases of simple lightning a PWM signal from a microcontroller tickles the gate if a high load voltage controller. Bigger circuits, the MC fires voltage to the relay trigger.

The only “magic” is the MC detecting the button press and taking action. For a simple 8 button circuit on a atmel 328p (arduino uno core) it is about 30 lines of code and another 48 to manage a config logic based action tree. Even simpler if your using a raspberry pi system or other SOC method.

Yes I’m a nerd. Yes I build this crap for “fun”.
My already completed 'Lil Bit'. A Martens Goosen V12 set up to sail me to the fishing holes.
Currently working on making a Helms 24 our coastal cruiser.
“Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens” wrote:Eat a live frog first thing in the morning and nothing worse will happen to you the rest of the day.
Jaysen wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

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Re: knottyBuoyz III The TW28 Project

Post by Knottybuoyz »

Jaysen wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 5:54 am There’s nothing candy about digital signaling. The basic circuit is the same as any relay. The fancy part is what/how the relay is managed. In cases of simple lightning a PWM signal from a microcontroller tickles the gate if a high load voltage controller. Bigger circuits, the MC fires voltage to the relay trigger.

The only “magic” is the MC detecting the button press and taking action. For a simple 8 button circuit on a atmel 328p (arduino uno core) it is about 30 lines of code and another 48 to manage a config logic based action tree. Even simpler if your using a raspberry pi system or other SOC method.

Yes I’m a nerd. Yes I build this crap for “fun”.
I understood absolutely NONE of what you just said! :doh: :)

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Re: knottyBuoyz III The TW28 Project

Post by Jaysen »

I get that a lot.

Short of it … magic.
My already completed 'Lil Bit'. A Martens Goosen V12 set up to sail me to the fishing holes.
Currently working on making a Helms 24 our coastal cruiser.
“Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens” wrote:Eat a live frog first thing in the morning and nothing worse will happen to you the rest of the day.
Jaysen wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

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Re: knottyBuoyz III The TW28 Project

Post by fallguy1000 »

Doesn't the entire circuit load pass through the led? So, for say a 5amp pump; isn't that led just in the circuit?

Or is that power coming from a separate source from the switch?

??
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Re: knottyBuoyz III The TW28 Project

Post by OrangeQuest »

I like how neat everything turned out on your mimic panel. Looked like a lot of work in the video.


Wondering how you will control turning the LEDs on and off. I have my own opinion on it, we all do things the way we want to do them.
I assume to control on/off you would use the ground side; the side they all share in common. That is where two buss bars (one DC and one AC) would make that a lot easier, less connections and less points of failure. All grounds made before the first connector and then only need a connector for the signal side of the LEDs. Then a terminal block for those.
Easy to number the terminals on the buss bar and terminal block and then trouble shooting also would be easier. The use of the marine grade/standard eyelet connectors would also meet the standards for electrical connections on the boat.
"that it isn't just an ordinary sort of boat. Sometimes it's a Boat, and sometimes it's more of an Accident. It all depends." "Depends on what?" "On whether I'm on the top of it or underneath it."
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Re: knottyBuoyz III The TW28 Project

Post by fallguy1000 »

Another idea would be to add a dimmer. If you find out the leds are too bright; you can just add a dimmer.

MEETOOT DC Mini LED Dimmer Rotary Switch 12-24V LED Strip Light Brightness Controller On/Off Switch Inline Tact Switch Black with DC Female Connector https://a.co/d/gpKfHye

U r probably way ahead on this..
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Re: knottyBuoyz III The TW28 Project

Post by Jaysen »

There are a couple different methods for enabling indicators (led).

On proper switching (on/off positions) the method OQ describes is common. The problem there is that you can’t dim as each indicator is separately powered. In those cases a floating ground is commonly used to allow single dimmer to control the brightness. This is old school method and requires nothing fancy (like pwm).

For momentary switches the norm is to use signaling feedback from the relay trigger with synchronized pwm. The cheap way is to have all pwm triggers with an inline filter to provide full signal to the relay. My favorite method is a secondary microcontroller at the switch panel that does nothing but manage switch state and indicator. The MC transmits action command to the central controller which triggers actual device.

Hope that’s not too much Latin.
My already completed 'Lil Bit'. A Martens Goosen V12 set up to sail me to the fishing holes.
Currently working on making a Helms 24 our coastal cruiser.
“Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens” wrote:Eat a live frog first thing in the morning and nothing worse will happen to you the rest of the day.
Jaysen wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

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Re: knottyBuoyz III The TW28 Project

Post by OrangeQuest »

fallguy1000 wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:36 am Doesn't the entire circuit load pass through the led? So, for say a 5amp pump; isn't that led just in the circuit?

Or is that power coming from a separate source from the switch?

??
I am assuming since it is a mimic panel.
The LEDS would not have any real current going through them, just a signal of power on the power side of the load they monitor. You could use very small wire for the signal wire. If I was doing it and had the time, I would run my signal wire off the positive side of the load itself, say a pump. I flip the switch to the pump, the light at the switch lights up but the pump doesn't come on. I look at the mimic panel and the LED is not lite, tells me the pump is not getting power to it but because there is power at the switch, switch light is lite, then I know there is an open connection somewhere going to the pump. It can also tell if the pump is under to much load, like debris on the impeller. Higher current will cause the LED to dim whereas the switch power light will not dim as easy.

If concerned of the brightness of the mimic panel, I would place it in an area that can easily be seen from the helm but not in front of the helmsman. Like off to the side and slightly behind the helm. Since there is a on/off switch you could just turn the panel off.
"that it isn't just an ordinary sort of boat. Sometimes it's a Boat, and sometimes it's more of an Accident. It all depends." "Depends on what?" "On whether I'm on the top of it or underneath it."
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