Complete Novice Building a Sailing D5 in Texas

[Pokeydonut]

OK. I went ahead and decided to do the inside seams first with the boat right side up. That’s what the building instructions said so I decided to go with them.

My process was as follows:

- I used the JB Weld five minute quick setting epoxy between the zip ties to tack weld the wood
- Twenty minutes later I cut the zip ties and the wood immediately laughed at the quick set epoxy and more or less separated but more or less stayed where they needed to because of the rest of the boat
- I mixed the silvertip epoxy resin and hardener and used a foam brush to paint it around the seam. But did I get it on the inside of those pieces? Probably not.
- I mixed the System 3 SilverTip EZ-Fillet Kit and tried the frosting bag method but in the end relied more on the popsicle stick method. I didn’t take pictures but I thought my fillets looked pretty good.
- I made a new batch of epoxy resin, since the first batch had hardened and kind of melted the thin plastic cup it was in, cut a fiberglass strip, soaked it in the epoxy resin, and then placed it down the seam
- Then I used the air bubble tool to smooth out the fiberglass which honestly I thought I did a really good job at
- I cut out some peel ply and put it down and let everything cure for 24 hours and ripped off the peel ply









So not exactly shipshape, but I think technically sealed? Is this something I can fix with sanding? Is this just too awful to deal with and I need to redo it somehow? Is that even a thing I can do? Should I put another layer of something on?

Questions:

How do you all measure this stuff? I’m putting it in the plastic measuring cups from Home Depot but obviously those become totally useless after one use. Am I missing something? Also I put it in those disposable plastic paint mixing cups but those buckled and bent after it started getting hot and smoky.

Also definitely nothing in all the books and videos and forum posts I read prepared me for exactly how hot and fumey this stuff gets. I feel like everyone glosses over that. It is 103 degrees in Dallas so maybe that doesn’t help but man, you have to move quick and get it out because the mass of it gets hardened fast. Maybe my ratios were off - it’s hard to measure the already peanut buttery EZ-Fillet kit by volume.

What does everyone else do for tack welding? Am I really supposed to mix this stuff, go between the zipties, mix it again, cut the zipties and then do the whole seam? I’m not really clear on the tack welding part of this process. Since I know you’re supposed to put the fiberglass on when the fillet is still wet, I don’t think I’m supposed to do two rounds of fillets but I’m not really sure.

Any other advice? I realize one’s first seam is never perfect so I’m just trying to get some perspective on this one.

Thanks!

[jbo_c]

103 is pretty hot for any epoxy. You may want to do some things to cool your resin at least before mixing. You can keep it in the air conditioned house. That helps. A step further is keeping it “iced” in a cooler. Getting it out of the cup and into a wider surface to dissipate heat is also key. Don’t think you can do anything but use that batch once it’s mixed. There will be no multi-tasking.

Sorry to say, but that joint should be ground out and redone. Looks like you may have been stingy on filet material. The tape should lay right on it. That white is a clear sign you didn’t get contact.

Leave the JB weld at the hardware store. It’s not the epoxy you need. For glue, mix your BBC epoxy and enough wood flour/silica to make a stiff mix and use that.

If you’ll leave a popsicle stick in those containers and tip them sideways so that any residual runs down onto the stick, a lot of times once it’s fully cured, you can just pull all the epoxy out with the stick and re-use the cup.

Jbo

[pee wee]

I agree with jbo_c, but I can't tell from the photos if you need to tear off the glass you put down or can salvage the work. Do it as soon as possible if you are going to do it.

For getting same size batches of epoxy measured reliably, I use clear solo cups and a process I got from other builders here: get one cup and that will be your master cup, drop another cup into it (stay with the same exact cups). Decide how big a batch of epoxy you will be making and measure half that amount of water and pour it into the cup. Mark the level of the water on the master cup with a sharpie. Add the same amount of water again to the cup (that represents both resin and hardener) and again mark the level on the outer cup. For reference you can note how many ounces that will total, but to use it you will simply drop a new cup into the master and carefully pour resin up to the mark, then hardener up to the next mark. Pull your epoxy cup out and set the master cup aside to keep it clean, mix the resin and hardener and then dump it out in a paint roller tray (disposable liner) or wherever you need it. Doing it this way gets you same size batches and is pretty accurate. Some guys weigh their epoxy, but that takes longer and you have to figure out the ratio by weight instead of volume- they're different.

The fumes from a batch of overheating epoxy are nasty and not good for you, it's important to have good ventilation while you work with epoxy and get any out of control batches out the door and downwind.

They sell different speed hardeners here; you may not want to buy any more materials for your build, but there is a fast, medium, slow to choose among. The suggestion of refrigerating the resin or keeping it in an ice bath is good.

I just realized I am assuming you are using the one to one epoxy sold by BBCentral, if you're using a different ratio the marks on the cup will be different, of course.

[Pokeydonut]

OK. Two more seams. Again - not exactly runaway successes:










This time I used a ton of the epoxy putty, which I think was a good start, but then I was so focused on pressing out any air bubbles and getting the fiberglass tape to lie flush on the fillet that I created a valley in the corner. I see the goal is to make sure the fiberglass lies flush on the fillet, but to not push so hard that you are pushing down the nice curved radius made by the fillet.

Anyone have any good tips for me? This step seems much harder than everyone has led me to believe….

[Fuzz]

At this point for you I think I would not try to use the peel ply. That is just one more step you don't need for now. Mix up just enough epoxy to pre-coat the wood. While it is still sticky mix up your EZ Fillet or epoxy glue and spread it over the joints with you tool. I mostly use the back side of cheap plastic spoons. Let the glue just start to firm and lay your glass over it and wet it out. If you do it when the glue is just starting to firm up you can smooth up any lumps with your epoxy brush. If there is any white glass it is not wet out and has no strength.
You really should grind why you have done out. For that kind of work I use a 4 inch grinder with either 40 grit or a 24 grit ZEC disk. You have to be VERY careful with the grinder as it will move a lot of material very quick. Repeat-very careful!

[Fuzz]

If you are not using slow hardner you need to get some. The other guys have lots of tricks for working in hot weather. For me I never have that problem, more like is it warm enough for fast to set up

[pee wee]

This site has a bunch of tutorials and other information that is helpful, here's one: https://boatbuildercentral.com/support- ... ue-101.pdf

[jbo_c]

I agree. I’d put down the peel ply for now. Looks like it’s causing you problems, not helping.

Here’s an off the wall suggestion. Go to your local home improvement store and get a medium sized bucket of drywall mud and a roll of paper tape. Use some drywall or scrap wood and make yourself some joints to practice on. Spend time making “filets” with the drywall mud and taping with the tape until you can do a nice job fairly quickly. Then you’re not wasting expensive epoxy on your learning curve.

Jbo

[Pokeydonut]

OK. An update.

I have not addressed the terrible corner welds. But I did paint the seams with epoxy resin and the put the EZ-fillets down to attach the frames to the side and the bottom





No fiberglass on those so less to go wrong. I suppose now I should tack weld with the epoxy putty mixture (not the five minute epoxy stuff) between the zip ties and then take out the zipties and do all the interior seams with fiberglass. Right?

Some would say that since I’ve already attached the frames that the boat is effectively locked in place already and I can just remove all the zipties now and start epoxying all the interior seams at once. Any reason not to do that?

I understand I need to saturate all the interior wood with the epoxy resin first before putting the epoxy and fiberglass down.

Still not sure what I’m going to do with the corners. Now that I see how smooth the frame seams look (well, some of them. Mostly the ones under seats, of course) I understand how horrible those corners are. Can I really not put another coat of epoxy and fiberglass over them? I really need to grind them all out and start again?

[jbo_c]

If you can make them smooth through grinding and filling, you can still epoxy and glass, but you need smooth enough that you don’t have air bubbles.

Glad to see you back. I was wondering where you’d gone. Don’t give up.

It’s a slow boat, so pretty forgiving of technique. Learn stuff and put the boat to use. (Then build another one.)

Jbo