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HB20 Build

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:07 am
by JustMe
Well, I might be starting this a little early, but I am very excited about getting going on this project.

I just ordered my HB20 plans. I have a few things that I might do to change up the plans a little.

1) I will not build the fly bridge to save on weight and cost, but will build it in the 9 foot width standard. I was considering to shrink it to 8' 6" to keep it trailerable without having a permit. I was also thinking about going with the fly bridge, but not for my first build.

2) The two seperate beds in the stateroom will be pushed together and turned 90 degrees so the head of the bed will be attached to the port side, and the left side of the bed will be attached to the bow wall. The bed width will be about the size of a full, maybe a tad smaller.

3) I will be building in one, or two, hanging lockers in the forward starboard corner, with drawers underneath. The wife says she needs more storage. If I go with a second, it all depends on space, I will put it in the aft starboard corner.

4) In the cockpit, I am going to put in a jump seat type bench that can fold out of the way.

5) The proposed jump seat at the helm station will be a built in seat with additional storage, much like the settee bench.

6) I will be installing railing around the gunwales and a small short railing around the top deck above the cabin to protect the sun bathers.

Well, that should do it, I think. This is my first boat of any size so I am excited and a little nervous at the same time. Can't wait for my plans to get here so I can start my planning. I have a busy schedule so planning and timing are going to be very important on this project.

In central Kentucky, we have a cold winter so I will be faced with a non-building time period of 4 to 5 months. I hope to do this project out of pocket so finance planning will also be important.

Ok, folks, here we go!

http://gallery.bateau2.comdisplayimage.php?pos=-7032
My mods

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:31 am
by MadRus
Congratulations! You'll have a blast. BTW, you can get a good feeling for the sizes of stuff if you draw it out with chalk on your driveway or in the garage, or somewhere. Then you can move outdoor furniture around the outline to represent tables, chairs, etc. to get a good feeling for size and space.

Best of luck! Post pics as you go!

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:33 am
by JustMe
MadRus wrote:Congratulations! You'll have a blast. BTW, you can get a good feeling for the sizes of stuff if you draw it out with chalk on your driveway or in the garage, or somewhere. Then you can move outdoor furniture around the outline to represent tables, chairs, etc. to get a good feeling for size and space.

Best of luck! Post pics as you go!
Your post give me a clue that I am headed in the right direction. I had planned on doing that with some garden stacks in the field next to my garage, where I'm going to be building 'er.

Thanks!

Re: HB20 Build

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:05 pm
by fishingdan
Good luck with the project.


By the way, you could easily build throughout the Kentucky winter if that is something you want to do. There has been lots of discussion regarding working in cold weather.

Re: HB20 Build

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:05 pm
by kiwi
JustMe wrote: 2) The two seperate beds in the stateroom will be pushed together and turned 90 degrees so the head of the bed will be attached to the port side, and the left side of the bed will be attached to the bow wall. The bed width will be about the size of a full, maybe a tad smaller.
"Stateroom" is maybe a bit heady for "front cabin". How tall are you? You just have sitting headroom on the bed. No one is claustrophobic? My other half couldn't be dragged screaming into a cabin that high <naughty thoughts race through mind> 8)

My ideal HB20 is 28' long and has a folding setee bed for the adults in the rear living room, the kids sleep downstairs. It also has a large head/shower compartment like the GT27. But unfortunately the TW28 came along and ruined that dream :D

Tony

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:23 pm
by Mike Adams
Welcome to the forum! Nice to see another one brave enough to make some changes to Jacques' plans! :lol:
Tony may have a point, though - you need to consider headroom when repositioning things.

MadRus's suggestion to lay it out on the floor of the garage is a good one - although I wouldn't do it in the driveway if I could avoid it, for the simple reason that in order to get a good feel for the space you need to limit your vision with some walls. (Have a look at a house being built - when only the frames are up, the rooms look a lot bigger than when the walls are in place).

You'll enjoy the build, I'm sure, and there will be plenty of people here willing to assist you with suggestions and comments.
Looking forward to seeing some pics!
Mike

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:46 am
by JustMe
I thing about the headroom isn't really too big an issue...thus far. We have had small pop-up trailers in the past.

I will lay it out and I'll take you advice on the use of the garage. I might get some pcv piping and tarps to mock up my prototype, particularly in the front cabin.

If there is enough room to move around on my knees then I should be good for the hanging locker access. Otherwise I may bring it back to the aft starboard corner of the cabin and make it accessible from the opening that steps down into the cabin.

The wife and I can't sleep well if the other is not there. I figured seeing as there was plenty of room, I could just push them together and turn them so the access wasn't blocked.

I would call what I'm doing brave or anything. As this is my first boat of size, I wouldn't dare or I might be screaming :help: before it was over. :lol:

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:01 pm
by kiwi
JustMe wrote: The wife and I can't sleep well if the other is not there. I figured seeing as there was plenty of room, I could just push them together and turn them so the access wasn't blocked.
Now that is true love or what! Congratulations!

Tony

PS I am on the same boat as you on this one :D

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:04 pm
by JustMe
Well, I got my plans for the HB20 Friday. Talk about intimidating. It seems as so many of the details of the steps are missing. Not sure if I can do this now.

There is a floor of paper and so much confusion on my part. I keep asking myself if I am about to make a several thousand dollar mistake. Some how others have been able to make this boat, so I will press on.

It has raised many questions that I will need to ask, as this is my first boat of any size that I am about to build.

I read so many of the other threads and find people all over building boats, so I figure that I just need to spent several hours reading and re-reading the plans until it all makes sense. I am also considering making a model of it out of cardstock, perhaps even a few times, until I understand the building process.

Well, I guess it is back to those plans. And it looks like my idea for the beds in the front will get yet another modification. Instead of making the beds like I had hoped, I am thinking about keeping them in the original direction and make the starboard bed have a sliding top that will allow for a double. The bed on the port side would be storage with a hanging locker in the aft port corner.

I trust that many of you have also had this overwhelming feeling opening your first set of plans. Share.

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:22 pm
by chrisobee
Don't panic. Its the boat builders motto. One step at a time. You will be fine.

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:08 am
by Lon
"I am also considering making a model of it out of cardstock ... "
Thar you go. Do it!

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:17 am
by ks8
It may sound awkward, but it is simpler than it sounds.

Get a cheap G.I Joe *action figure*, and measure it with varying scales on a triscale. Find a scale that puts him at about 6 feet tall. Then use that scale to build your model. You can then test fit him in all sorts of ways in different areas of the model.

I haven't seen anyone do this yet and I wonder why...

:)

ks

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 3:28 am
by kiwi
ks8 wrote: I haven't seen anyone do this yet and I wonder why...
Be cause there is no "GI Joe goes fishing" boxed set? :D

Tony

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:06 pm
by ks8
kiwi wrote:
ks8 wrote: I haven't seen anyone do this yet and I wonder why...
Be cause there is no "GI Joe goes fishing" boxed set? :D

Tony
Sometimes I am so ignorant of simple truths. Thanks Tony! :lol:

Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:41 am
by JustMe
First, I must say that you guys crack me up. :lol:

Second, I will be starting my first build, cardstock model number 1, tonight. I figure that even the model will take me awhile as I am not familiar with many things about the plans or the boat itself.

I suppose that after building a few of the models, building the real thing will feel like bring home an old friend.

As far as the GI Joe goes, my daughter read that post and offered the use of her Ken doll. Apparently HE has fishing gear. :lol:

Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:11 am
by kiwi
JustMe wrote:As far as the GI Joe goes, my daughter read that post and offered the use of her Ken doll. Apparently HE has fishing gear. :lol:
Ah! I only have boys so I am excused for this lack of knowledge! Now the question remains: what does Barbie do when Ken goes fishing?

Tony
PS We told you boat building would be fun 8)

Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:23 pm
by JustMe
kiwi wrote:
JustMe wrote:As far as the GI Joe goes, my daughter read that post and offered the use of her Ken doll. Apparently HE has fishing gear. :lol:
Ah! I only have boys so I am excused for this lack of knowledge! Now the question remains: what does Barbie do when Ken goes fishing?
Well, she has that whole Corvette thing. :lol:

Can't wait to start my first model tonight.

Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:24 pm
by JustMe
It took me a while to understand what was going on, but I think I am starting to understand.

I don't have boat building instructions. What I have are some drawings showing dimensions and building concepts.

I was expecting building instructions. You know, the step by step kind. What I would call, "HB20 for Dummies". This is a series of dimensional drawings that lend themselves to building a boat.

There are some basic instructions about building the HB20, but nothing exact. I can only assume that this is part of the building flexibility that the designer built into his design.

Some of the dimensions don't back any sense though. I have a question that I am hoping Jacques will be able to answer regarding the cockpit sole dimension.

In model land, I have the two major bottom pieces together and one of the hull sides ready for cuting. I am using a 1 foot = 1 inch concept to give me a better feel for what I am doing. Tomorrow I hope to have enough of the model put together that I can post a picture of the progress.

Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:48 pm
by chrisobee
Have you looked at the FAQ and How To's? there you will find instructions. Though they are not the specific A-B-C-D-Finis sort of instructions they will give you an idea as to how to proceed.

Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:51 pm
by Lon
"I was expecting building instructions. You know, the step by step kind. What I would call, "HB20 for Dummies". This is a series of dimensional drawings that lend themselves to building a boat."

Go to the top of this page and click "How To's" and read. The directions are applicable to boats built with the stitch and glue method and to a given model as appropriate.

"Some of the dimensions don't back any sense though. I have a question that I am hoping Jacques will be able to answer regarding the cockpit sole dimension."

This thread may be lost in trivia. Start a new one and ask a specific question of Jacques. Best results are one question at a time, it seems.

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:48 am
by JustMe
I have a copy of the 'how-to' guideline. It has helped a good deal with the 'what is next' type questions.

As this is my first boat of any size, anything bigger than 8 feet, it just caught me off guard. But, I like a challenge. I think this will give me the right to say, "I can build boats me". (Those of you who are Brainiac fans will understand. :lol: )

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:46 pm
by JustMe
The longer I study the plans, the easier I am starting to feel about them.

I have made another change to the plans. I noticed that the front end of the stringers are used to support the beds in the cabin. In an effort to make it easy on me and not do anything to upset the supporting structure of the craft. I will use the other bed area for storage and put in a hanging locker in the aft corner.

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:58 pm
by ks8
JustMe wrote:The longer I study the plans, the easier I am starting to feel about them..
Excellent. Building it in your head sort of thing, except you are going with the model first. If there is no project experience yet, the model is the excellent way to go. Many semi complex projects have many variations on approach to completing the project. There is always at least one critical path of managing the smaller tasks, but there are many options in between on what steps you might tackle first, or at the same time. I making all my final extra mod braces now, because they are small and easy to do indoors during winter, and the initial shapes that must define those secondary shapes are already completed. There is a simple enough logical approach as you look the plans over more in depth. Some steps will naturally have to be completed before others. And you have the forum to ask. There are also general books on building with these methods that can be very helpful in general concepts, even if they vary slightly from some of these boats. One such is the Sam Devlin book, I believe still available for sale here. I spent a month browsing it before starting and it was well worth it.

Enjoy the build and learning about building. :) It is very rewarding when things start to come into shape and seams start curing. Step by step will be intuitive and when you look back at accomplishments, you'll see it is much easier than some fears may be trying to tell you before hand. Smile and sing or hum while you build. It's a blast!

Then, when you really get into it, and start slowing down, and feeling the lines and fairness of the wood as you sand, and thinking of little things that would be so convenient, right *there*, then you know you are hopelessly lost, infected, and probably contagious. And then, as Dave says, *Welcome to the ward*. Don't worry about that double-click as the door closes behind you (its for your own good, until the boat is in the water!).

ks

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:27 pm
by MadRus
ks8 wrote:
JustMe wrote:The longer I study the plans, the easier I am starting to feel about them..
If there is no project experience yet, the model is the excellent way to go. Many semi complex projects have many variations on approach to completing the project. There is always at least one critical path of managing the smaller tasks, but there are many options in between on what steps you might tackle first, or at the same time.
I second that opinion. I did a model of the GV17 and by the end, I could tell you all the dimensions of all the parts off the top of my head- in two scales. Plus, it was helpful in imagining the process- where the plans or my understanding might be a little "foggy", etc. And all before I got the real jitters or got-to-finishes, so I was able to ask my questions before I found myself in a situation that required immediate assistance when I actually did build my GV13. I'm about to pick up my 1/2 completed Nina model too. Since I've put off that build for at least a couple years, I thought it might stave off the night sweats. :lol: Just kidding.

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:43 am
by JustMe
Thanks guys. I am starting to understand a few more things here and there. It is starting to come together.

I did realize one thing last night in working on my model. I now know what the proper definition of cure time is.

Cure time is 90% of the amount of time it takes before you realize a mistake you just glued into place.

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 am
by kiwi
JustMe wrote:Cure time is 90% of the amount of time it takes before you realize a mistake you just glued into place.
You are going to make a killer boat builder!

I like your new plan. I would simply do a cutout at the head of the bed where you step down into the cabin much like on a sailing boat v-berth. You could have a slide out bed extension.

Tony

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:00 am
by JustMe
I hadn't thought about that. There's a good idea.

The new Plan is...

http://gallery.bateau2.com/displayimage ... =438&pos=1

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:00 am
by jacquesmm
As long as you keep the stringers, your changes are fine.

About the buildign notes: they are step by step but we do not repeat every detail that is common to all boats. We go through what is specific to each boat.
The common parts: hwo to draw a frame, how to draw a panel, how to make epoxy, how to fiberglass etc. etc. are all in the HowTo files at this site.

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:13 am
by JustMe
Thanks Jacques. I was originally wanting to cut the stringers to make the changes for turning the beds sideways. After seeing the plans, I decided that a wiser thing would be to make a foldout cover for the aisle. I am thinking that I could have the folding plywood part on the storage side when not in use.

I would make the cushion/matress like the cushions for the settee cushoins. It would fold in the middle to make a couch when not being used as a bed. I still have to check the dimensions for that but I think there is enough room.

I also like Tony's idea of having a folding/sliding piece for the standing area. If I did that, I might not have to fold the bed up.

I am defineately feeling easier about the build as I get into the plans. This is going to be a real adventure for me. I am looking forward to it.

Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:58 am
by JustMe
One thing is for sure, even a novice like myself can get the needed help and information right in one place. Jacques, you have a wonderful forum here for us builders.

I am moving forward with my cardstock model of the HB20. I should have the model in such shape this weekend that I can take a picture of it and have it look like something.

As I am going through the building process, I can see the places that I would have had problems with if I had just jumped into the build blind. The internal structure of the boat is different from anything I had even looked at before.

The one thing I am still in dread of the most is the fiberglassing of the hull. I haven't work with epoxy more than using it as a glue. I might take my eight foot boat, sand off all that paint, and fiberglass it as a sample project to get my feet wet.

Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:20 pm
by jacquesmm
Fiberglassing is easy. Start with a small piece to get a feel for it.

And yes, to build a model is an excellent way to "debug" the building.

Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:42 pm
by JustMe
jacquesmm wrote:Fiberglassing is easy. Start with a small piece to get a feel for it.

And yes, to build a model is an excellent way to "debug" the building.
Not sure if it is debugging the building or the "builder" :lol: the most.

ken...

Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:48 pm
by plumbertuck
I suggest NOT using Ken as a boat model, as your boat may have to have cafe' curtains and be painted pink,( there has never been a pregnant barbie 8O ) and Ken does NOT come with tools :lol:

Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:40 pm
by ks8
G.I. Joe with kung fu grip. Check ebay... 8)

Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 9:24 am
by JustMe
You guys crack me up. :lol:

Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 1:33 pm
by Lon

Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 5:13 pm
by chrisobee
It seems cruel to me to fish for GI Joes. After all they are real American Heros. Give the Joes a break. :D

Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:06 am
by ks8
If Joe has his own fishin gear, what pound test is he using? I guess hooking a snapper would be like a 200 pound trophy fish?

Opps, guess we go back to the HB20 build? Wait, this is on topic! That's why we need that Joe in your model... with his fishin gear! Looks like you would need the kung fu grip, to hold the gear. Maybe Jacques will add Joe to the store inventory for model builders. But wait... didn't they shrink Joe so he could fit in with the tiny StarWars action figures? Wasn't he a foot tall way back when?

Why not have Joe build the model? Then you'd need to find a Joe sized respirator and belt sander, etc.

Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:11 am
by JustMe
All I can say is :lol:

I just got back from a trip to Boston so work on the model has been held up a good bit. It has put me behind so I will be working extra hard this weekend.

I am making the stringers and gluing them to the hull bottom.

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:37 pm
by JustMe
Well, I finally got a little ways on the paper model.

I am cutting card stock down to simulate 4 by 8 sheets of plywood. I am using a 1"=1' scale, just to keep things simple.

I have the two stringers in place and now I will glue the side onto the bottom. After that, I am on to the frames and internal supports.

http://gallery.bateau2.comdisplayimage. ... =438&pos=2

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 3:16 pm
by zignman
Zignman just bought the kit for the hb20. I would like to know how your boat is comming along? warrenp@sonic.net