FS14 build saga continues......

[Daniel Huckleberry]

Derrick

The boat looks good to me. Everything seem fair and symmetrical. That's a good thing! I would pay some attention to the stringers as they don't make contact with hull at their tips. AdamG mentioned modifying them in some way and I agree. Butt blocks sound reasonable and would waste the least amount of ply.

Keep up the good work. You are doing great.

Huck

[jacquesmm]

It looks good. I still don't understand the gap at the bow but it doesn't matter much.

I do not monitor this section. This part of the forum is to psot stories about building and completed boats. For technical questions, I watch the "Power Boats" section. That is why I ddi not respond: didn't see the message.

[dborecky]

It looks good. I still don't understand the gap at the bow but it doesn't matter much.

I do not monitor this section. This part of the forum is to psot stories about building and completed boats. For technical questions, I watch the "Power Boats" section. That is why I ddi not respond: didn't see the message.

Jacques,

I understand and will post in that section for future questions. I think it should go together from here. I still don't understand why the filet material is so thin. Do I need to add filler to make it thicker?

I won't be able to do any major progress for a few weeks as I will be working for the next 12 days straight. I may find time to cut the glass and get ready for the glassing marathon. Thanks for your help.

Daniel,

Jacques told me that foam will help with the front stringer problem. I will wait till I get to that point and ask what to do then. Thanks for the encouragment.

Baba,

Thanks

Derrick

[AdamG]

It takes practice to get the fillet material to the right consistency, and it depends somewhat on the resin brand, hardner speed, and filler you use, and the temperatures you are working in.

As the epoxy component of the mix starts it's set up reaction and gets warmer, it actually thins and gets more runny some before it starts hardening. This means you have to make the fillet mix a bit thicker sometimes, especially if you are filling wider gaps. Its almost as thick as cookie dough when I mix it using system3 medium speed. After it heats up when the reaction is going, it thins to a more peanutbutter like texture. If you start on the thin side with the epoxy fillet mix, it will get runny as the reaction starts.

Basically, when you get a good fillet mix, you should be able to scoop some up on a fillet tool, and the dollop shouldn't really move or deform at all if you hold it at any angle. When you mix it in the cup, it shouldn't sort of melt or run back down into the bottom..it should stay in the shape it was last stirred into. That's what worked for me at least.

It takes practice and experience.

[dborecky]

It takes practice to get the fillet material to the right consistency, and it depends somewhat on the resin brand, hardner speed, and filler you use, and the temperatures you are working in.

As the epoxy component of the mix starts it's set up reaction and gets warmer, it actually thins and gets more runny some before it starts hardening. This means you have to make the fillet mix a bit thicker sometimes, especially if you are filling wider gaps. Its almost as thick as cookie dough when I mix it using system3 medium speed. After it heats up when the reaction is going, it thins to a more peanutbutter like texture. If you start on the thin side with the epoxy fillet mix, it will get runny as the reaction starts.

Basically, when you get a good fillet mix, you should be able to scoop some up on a fillet tool, and the dollop shouldn't really move or deform at all if you hold it at any angle. When you mix it in the cup, it shouldn't sort of melt or run back down into the bottom..it should stay in the shape it was last stirred into. That's what worked for me at least.

It takes practice and experience.

Adam,

I was using SilverTip. You are just mix 1:3 ratio and it is supposed to be all that you need to do. I found it to be kind of runny. I'm not sure why or what I'm doing wrong. You are supposed to just mix till it turns brown and not over mix as this can make it thin. I tried multiple batches and all turned out with a thick honey consistency and by no means was it like peanut butter. I would have loved that.

Derrick

[MadRus]

I agree with Adam, that's exactly how thick I mix my fillet material too. That's why I always say, order more woodflour than they specify- twice as much. Saggy fillets are a PITA. Sturdy fillets are a good friend, especially when you're doing wet-on-wet.

Woops, I posted after you did.

Anyway, you might check with S3 to make sure adding woodflour won't hurt the fillet material you're using and then try thickening with it.

Want to add... mix the epoxy first and make sure you mix it according to instructions (S3 regular epoxy states at least 2 minutes of stirring) before you add the thickeners.

[AdamG]

Derrick,

Are you using some kind of special fillet mixture specified by System3, or are you using just regular System3 Silvertip resin and your own filler to mix? If you aren't using a special fillet mix kit specified by the manufacturer, there really isn't some set fillet mix ratio. The only mix ratio is for the epoxy resin to harder, then you add the filler material on an as needed basis to get the consistency you want. Different fillers will require different volumes because they have different properties and densities due to particle size and shape.

I used some silica microspheres here and there because West Marine had some on sale, but it tends to cause bubbles when mixed for me. 95% of my fillet mix filler material is good old reliable woodflour. It mixes consistently and well, and is dirt cheap. I just mixed a small batch of epoxy resin/ hardner, and then spooned in and mixed filler until it reached the consistency I wanted. I never have measured filler one time, I always mixed each batch "custom" for the thickness I wanted depending on the size of the gap I was trying to fill, or if I was making a thinner mix for small fillets, or depending on the temperature. Mix it as thick as you need it to get the job done, if you are mixing your own filler. If you start to work with it and it sags or runs and looks too thin when you first start applying, scrape what you used up and put it back in your mixing container, stir some more filler in, and try it again...unless it is starting to set of course!

Mixing in the filler material isn't like mixing the epoxy..with epoxy you have to have the right ratio...with filler, it is pretty much as much or little as you need to get it to do what you need it to do.

[dborecky]

Adam,

I'm using Silver Tip EZ fillet.



This is a quote from the product page.

"EZ Fillet is a wood flour-filled two-part putty specifically designed for stitch-and-glue wooden boat construction. Its ketchup-like, self-leveling consistency allows it to be measured by volume or weight. The resin (part A) is brick red in color while the hardener (part B) is a deep, dark green. A rich brown wood tone results when the two parts are combined indicating complete mixing. The putty thickens after mixing to form an easy to spread, thixotropic compound, which stays put and will not run or sag. EZ Fillet has been designed for superior strength and workability and can be used by itself to create smooth cosmetic fillets or as a structural fillet when combined with fiberglass cloth. EZ Fillet can be applied by spatula or caulking tube. A convenient pastry bag technique can be used by snipping off the corner of a plastic food storage bag and filling it with mixed EZ Fillet. Adjust the size of the hole to deliver just the right amount of EZ Fillet."

I just found that it was kind of thin and did sag and run some.

Derrick

[AdamG]

Strange. I suspect you can mix in a little woodflour with no ill effects if you need it thicker for filling larger gaps. You might want to test that theory in a small area or on some test wood, just to be sure. In my experience, thinner fillet material was ok for thinner gaps, 1/8 or so, but you need it thicker for larger gaps or it sags into the gap.

I'm be suprized if you have lots of problems with system3 premixes. I absolutely love QuickFair..it was WAY better than any fairing mix I tried to make myself. Never tried their fillet stuff before mostly because I'm a cheapskate, but the quickfair was absolutely worth the money for the amount of resin it saves trying to make good handmade fairing mixes.

Good luck.

[dborecky]

I spent a full day putting the glass on the bottom of the boat. I have decided that I need lots more practice to get it right.

A few things I did that I'm not sure of.

1. I put the glass on as a mirror image when I cut the front shape and by doing so ended up with two different sides of glass on the two halves of the boat. I don't know if that will make a difference.

2. I wet the whole bottom of the boat after taping instead of just one half. This led to the second half being very sticky when laying the second half and it would stick which made if very difficult to work with and get the air and wrinkle out.

Here are the pictures of the build so far.

The stern with two 4 layer ply blocks glued to make up the slight short edges of the stern. I then glued the blocks onto the outer edges of the stern to be shaped later when the boat is flipped.



Two shots of the bow after the shaping and fitting but prior to the glass.





The glassing was done wet on wet. I put the filet down then the tape then the glass cloth. I did put three layers of tape on the stern edges as I am going to hang a 25 HP tiller on the back of this thing.







Here is a close up of the stern bottom side edge. As you can see it is really thick.



Am area of poor lamination.



Anther bow shot after lots of glass.





Here is another shot of the spot that needs some work to fix the delamination.



Here is a shot of the bottom.



Here is a small line of air in the bottom that I'm not sure needs to be fixed. Unless told otherwise...





I'm not sure if this is what it is supposed to look like or not. This was the first time I glassed anything and let me tell you it was a pain in the rear to do all that area in one day. I had my brother in law helping with the mixing and laying and it took all day yesterday......

Any input would be appreciated on what I need to do to fix anything you guys see that needs to be fixed prior to fairing.

Derrick

PS Jacques/Joel, Feel free to tell me anything that needs to be done or fixed to get the the fairing part....