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Guam HMD18

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:08 am
by chicagoross
After several months of delays and agonizing over the choice of plans and availability of supplies, I finally got off my butt and started cutting wood today for an HMD18. The strongback is built and I started cutting hull panels today, as the strongback will be the only flat area available for splicing hull panels need to get them done first. Feels great to finally be decided, committed, and building! All my boat building tools are in the Philippines (220 Volts) so am using my old home repair tools to start with that I shipped from California to Guam. They all seem to be Black and decker, not Makita and Bosch. Use 'em til they die. The Jigsaw's keeping my hand nice and warm. Think I need to start dropping hints for Santa...

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:45 pm
by D2Maine
nm

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:40 pm
by Spokaloo
There go my hopes of seeing another LB22!

Good luck!

E

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:59 am
by D2Maine
nm

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:42 pm
by chicagoross
Almost done with the hull panels, then on to cutting frames. Spok, it was a tough call with multiple pros & cons on each boat, but my supply of 1/4" marine ply dried up, the area for my strongback is only 20' long, and the relative simplicity of the HMD hull (no stringers, it's like building an oversized D4) were strong factors. It's not my ultimate dream boat (which may be the 21' version that Evan is working on) but gotta build, gotta build, after several wasted months worrying about the perfect plan. This boat will tell me what it's like building full size in S&G, satisfy family needs for a while, and tell me if I can live with a displacement hull as primary boat (everyone should have a few different kinds of boats, right?)
D2, I e-mailed Yoda but so far no answer, hope he's OK. Doug N., the other HMD builder, hasn't been heard from in a while either. If you guys are out therre, we'd love to hear from you!

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:42 pm
by Spokaloo
Im excited to see how it performs for you.

Photos!

E

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:15 pm
by chicagoross
Then we can do the 21' cruiser together. :) Or will you be going to something bigger? You and I will both need a bigger workshop. I just hope by the time I finish this that I'll be able to do straight, smooth seams like I see on your Nina.

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:20 pm
by stevesmith81
Glad to hear you have started and am looking forward to pictures. I have a set of metric HMD18 plans, I was going to stretch it by 8.5% which gave me a a 20 foot long by 8.5 foot wide boat.

Once Evan committed to a 22 footer I decided to wait and see what he comes up with.

From what you have already completed it sounds like you are making great progress. Any estimate on when you think you will be done?

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:30 pm
by chicagoross
I bought metric with plans to stretch lengthwise only, didn't really want it any bigger. Plywood cost is not an issue ( only have good Lauan exterior available, not to bad pricewise here in Guam) so some of the nesting will go out the window for easier layout and drawing. Same size trailer (18-20') and same motor. Stretching it lengthwise causes a few problems with panels (transom, motorwell parts, windshields etc.) which are not exactly laid out lengthwise on the plans. So I'm not scaling it at all, decided to build the first larger Bateau boat to plan for simplicity. That said, I'm more or less thinking of this as a large practice boat before building a larger cruiser, either Evan's new plan or Fisher's 22' Rufus. Or a version of Jog-Along if someone will develop something along those lines. About 22' is my max length for storage where I'm at now.

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:38 pm
by chicagoross
I should say most likely Evan's new plan, as after reading many sets of boat plans I really appreciate the completeness of the plans here as opposed to most designers plans, which are pretty much hull only - maybe frames for cabin roofs are sketched but not detailed, leaving you to figure out bunks, furniture, bulkheads etc. Anyhow, wanted to build a real boat by this method, HMD18 seems very simple and will fill a current need for economical cruising and trolling. After which I can sell my plastic bathtub for big bucks and fund the next, larger boat. There will not be compulsive fairing on this boat, it will be workboat finish, and I can often work on it about 4 hours a day, so should be fairly quick. Or relatively quick. In building the D4 I find that I am about 1/2 as fast as an "average person". :doh: And that's workboat finish and all. :lol:

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:58 pm
by Doug N
Still alive and kicking here in the frozen north. Not much done on the boat since this past spring. Family stuff took priority but things should be settling back to normal fairly soon. Hope to get back to building Feb/march. Next thing to do is install seatboxes/decking.
I had cut out all of my parts using the base for the strongback as you are but I should have left the decking parts until the hull was completed. The plans gives an option of having the decking overlap the rubrails and that is what I was going to do. It looks like the deck as designed only goes to the edge of the hull. I have enough scraps that I was able to cut replacements to go out to the edge of the rubrails. I also had cut the foredeck as two pieces and I should have done it as one.
Have fun. It's a fun build.
Haven't seen anything from Yoda for a while as well. Been checking the forum daily to see how he's doing. Hopefully he's doing ok.
Doug

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:29 am
by Spokaloo
Phased building is definitely the way to go. Looking at the plans you will be able to see logical steps as to when things can be cut. It also is nice to spend a few weeks laying the hull out, a few assembling, a month on fiberglass and fairing, then going back to the layout and panel cutting again. Breaks the monotony, gives you a fresh start, and reinvigorates you for the next phase.

SWMBO says if the cruiser is comfortable and solid, shes okay with it being the next big boat. I was threatening a DE25 long cockpit, but the 22' hull in a commercial style with comfy accomodations and a kayak roof rack suits us well. Just going to have to figure out where the guests will be sleeping!

Ive spent time looking at Rufus. Its a nice boat, and Ive built stuff from Paul in the past. The plans are mediocre, and the support is maybe 25% of what you get from these guys. I think the effort to push our hosts to develop the plans for what we want is much more effective than using substandard plans with less support.

Plan on a date to finish. Add 6 months. Plan on being late to that date as well.

Mine was going to be done in June. Ski season, a plywood shipping problem, surgery, fishing, and very hot summer temps (102+) really slowed me down.

Good luck!

E

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:12 pm
by chicagoross
Laying out and cutting all hull panels took about 6 hours in 3 days. 8 days now for splicing (4 panels x 2 sides) during which I plan to cut the frames. A little extra time each day for working on boat since our business is shut down for 4 day holiday, minus taking the kids shopping, swimming, and out to play in the D4.

Spokaloo, here's one way to tell if you've really got BBV (advanced stages): I remember on my first boat looking forward to the next stage of the build, all the way to the finish and enjoying and concentrating hard on the steps. But after you have it bad, you get like this - as I start cutting the first wood on a boat I'm already dreaming not only of the next step, but the next BOAT! (nice push, BTW, love that Ranger 21 look) Probably what Larry was doing when he made is foam mittens!

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:30 pm
by Spokaloo
Hah, I have the big boat, the rowing shell, a 16' pacific city dory, and a larger cruising boat like Evan's 22 in the hopper right now, not to mention a traditional small rowing boat....


Ive got it bad.

Oh, and a jet boat refit into a bass boat....


E

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:51 am
by chicagoross
Wow, Christmas Day and a lot accomplished. Had 4 days off, but pre-Christmas honeydos kept them fairly busy. Did manage to glue one of the hull panels each day, both sides - first side in the morning then flip in the evening and do the second side. Today, Christmas, I was first up, as usual, started the coffee, got the roast going for Christmas dinner, then spliced side one of the last hull panel. By this time the kids were up and time for opening presents. My honey got me the top of the line Bosch jigsaw. While the kids were playing with their new video game, and my wife trying out her new exercise equipment, I drew out the transom and tried the new saw out. Smooth as butter, fast, almost no vibration, what a difference! My old black and Decker is now retired. When the kids went down for their nap this afternoon, I drew out the rest of the frames. Another two hours left to splice the flip side of the last panel and cut out the rest of the frames, next week rig the jig, then pictures! and probably questions! Merry Christmas to all!

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:58 am
by chicagoross
Still progressing faster than expected. All frames erected on the jig, level and plumb. Tomorrow put on the panels. 29 hours so far, if I can get the panels on and epoxied in 20 more hours then I'll be an average person. :D When my wife brings the camera back I'll see if I can figure out how to post pics. :doh:

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:27 am
by Spokaloo
Ross, just upload them to www.photobucket.com . The hosting is free, each photo has an image tagged url for use in forums, and its a piece of cake.

Anything you see posted of my boat is from the bucket. Very user friendly.

Congrats on the fast progress....

E

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:59 am
by tech_support
cant wait to see :)

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:48 am
by chicagoross
Saturday I re-measured frames before covering with panels - good thing, found one that had an error (brainfart on my part), re-cut and mounted. Mounted hull panels. Sunday, finished tightening ties (all panels fit perfect, nice design work!)(and my local mahogany exterior ply bent great, no creaking of forcing), relieved between panels with jigsaw, and puttied between the stitches. Ordered the woven tape for the uppers and cabin that's not included in the epoxy kit for some reason, extra 6 oz woven cloth for upper hull exterior and sole, and a little extra epoxy to stick it all together. Tomorrow remove ties and finish putty on seams. I'm beat, pics later!

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:35 am
by chicagoross
Every day I see the digital camera in the evening, and then the next day when the cars are moved out I see that my wife has taken it to work! Pics soon, hopefully tomorrow. Progress has been slower, only got to work on it maybe 2-3 hours per day. Hull seams are all taped as of this evening. After I filled the seams with epoxy putty, I was impressed with how the hull had stiffened up. Then I radiused the seams - and was more impressed with how flimsy it had gotten, so decided I needed to tape the seams quick before a strong wind came up! When I stitched, all the panels came together to almost touching; I ran the jigsaw along the seams to get a bit more gap, but maybe should have left a little more gap for more putty penetration as the hull did get flimsy after sanding the radius on the seams. Anyhow, all taped now, double on transom and stem, so I feel safer. So far no problems that couldn't be figured out and solved. And surprise, definitely looking a bit neater than the practice D4 I built a few months back to learn stitch and glue! Better materials (marinepoxy and woodflour) helps over using the local substitutes on the D4, but the postage is killing me! Ordered 3 more gallons epoxy, 20 yards fabric, and 3 rolls of tape and the postage was about $250 to guam - you builders getting the free shipping are lucky! Now you know why I'm not shipping plywood in to the island!

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:50 pm
by chicagoross

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:56 pm
by Spokaloo
If you go down 3 more boxes on the photobucket page, you will see something along these lines:

Image

Copy and paste that one, and you are golden!

E

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:24 pm
by chicagoross
Image
Image

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:55 pm
by Spokaloo
Its like magic!

Looks good man, nice progress.

Hey if we fly through there on our Croatia trip next year, we should hook up!

E

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:58 am
by chicagoross
Mahi-mahi anytime you want to go out - not many of those out your way. I'll keep the plastic bathtub til this boats in the water. BTW, Spokaloo, almost fell off the ladder with a cup of epoxy the other day when my BBing flip-flops blew out. Had to demote my street flops to BBing status, pull lout my last spare new pair from the closet. :D

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:52 pm
by Spokaloo
Its a hard day indeed when the BB flops die. You eventually will spill enough epoxy on the straps to make them feel at home again. Do you have any fabric actually laminated to the soles yet?

Good luck!

E

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:19 am
by chicagoross
Thanks for the help wioth the pics, Spokaloo, I didn't think I'd figure it out til you made it easy.

Over the weekend I glassed one side of the bottom on Sat and one on Sunday, about 3 hours labor each and my wife mixed epoxy for an hour each day, which more than doubles the progress when you have a mixer. She wanted to help, but I'm not sure it was as fun for her as it was for me. :D

Only had an hour to work today, so did 1 layer of rubrail on 1 side. Still have to glass the transom, glass the sides, 100 more feet of rubrail, skeg and fair on this side of the boat. Even when I don't have much time to work on the boat, I like to do something for and hour or 2 just to keep monentum going. 53 hours labor thus far, so I'm not going to match the average person in the study plans who built the hull in 50 hours.

83 degrees here again today, no problem getting the winter epoxy to cure in Guam

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:16 pm
by Spokaloo
So you see, this is the time for pictures!

E

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:40 pm
by chicagoross
half glassed...
Image

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:42 pm
by chicagoross
Bottom glass on, starting rubrails.
Image

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:44 pm
by chicagoross
Starting to laminate the rails.
Image

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:33 am
by Spokaloo
Atta boy. Looks like you are getting the boat shaped drip line like everyone else has in their boat building space.

Nice work!

E

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:47 am
by chicagoross
I'm epoxy coating my garage. :D Finally for the fourth boat I've started wearing gloves (my wife gave be a couple boxes in my Christmas stocking) and my hands are clean for once. Now I only have epoxy drippings on my feet, legs, arms, and occasionally hair and ears if I get an itch. She gave me safety glasses (good, I never worried before as I wear glasses, but now that I'm older I have to take off my glasses to see up close, so very much appreciated) and dust masks (can't use them - it's typically 90 degrees and 90% humidity. When I put them on, can't breathe and can't see through the fogged up glasses) oh well, two out of three on the safety gear.

If anyone's reading this wondering about time and supply usage (as I was) 55 hours in to this point, bottom's epoxied, 2 of 6 layers of rubrails, the skegs been laminated out of 2 pieces of 2x8 mahogany. I'm almost a third of the way through the supplies in the Bateau kit - 1 of 3 wood flour bags, 1 of 3 biax tape rolls, and 4.5 gal epoxy out of 15. I bought an additional 3 gallons as I plan on putting woven fabric on the sole and side panels, we'll see if it will be enough.

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:52 am
by o-show
At this rate you'll be done by next week. Slow down for gosh sakes and try to enjoy yourself a little. Seriously great work I'm impressed. What material did you use for the rub rails?

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:07 am
by chicagoross
Tails are same as all my boat wood - philippine mahogany. 3/8 x 2". Costs about $2.20 per 10' length here (I only need 120 feet for this boat), strong, nice to work with, bends and glues well, makes it kinda not worth your time to be ripping ply strips. Course the ply is philippine mahogany too, but much nicer than what you see in mainland. O-show, I'm about to start the fairing and am not looking forward to it. My only consolation is it's an 18 footer, not a 26. :D

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:09 am
by chicagoross
Sorry, that's rails, not tails. :doh:

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:25 am
by SP
I am really enjoying your build with all the information on supplies, labor hours, pics etc....

I am always impressed at how fast the hulls come together.

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:04 pm
by Spokaloo
The hull goes really fast....

E

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:47 am
by chicagoross
Got that big old skeg fitted, glued, fileted and taped today! took some step-by-step pics as I went, but photobucket is fighting me right now. I'll try again later. 20 more feet of rurail too, now half done with the 3 layers of rurail.

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:34 am
by chicagoross
OK, the skeg is covered in the stitch and glue 101 tutorial, but I was kind of scared as the skeg on the HMD is big - 12" tall at the transom. So yesterday, I first had to make a big enough piece of wood, biggest I could find in mahogony was 2x8, so I sliced it diagonally and spliced like this:
Image
Today I temp screwed a couple pieces of 1x2 to the transom to hold the big skeg, and marked the hull curve using this high tech system:
Image
Image
Then used my wife's christmas present to me to cut the curve (man what a difference quality tools make):
Image

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:40 am
by chicagoross
Fits pretty good!
Image
My plan was to get it glued down today, then filet and tape it tomorrow. Plan fell through, when I slid the glued covered skeg into its slots, it squished out enough glue on the sides to make a good filet - so I did, and then taped it working wet-on-wet:
Image
Total process today, a very intesnse 3 hours. For the afternoon pleasure, another hour of laminating rubrails. I need more clamps!

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:35 am
by tech_support
what are all the white spots on the joints?

Joel

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:36 am
by PastorBob
I had a thread awhile ago talking about how much difference a good jig saw makes!!! it is one tool not to skimp on! Boat looks great I am envious of that beautiful mahogany I would have to use a child as collateral for that around here 8O .

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:13 pm
by chicagoross
The light spots on the chines are where the flapper disc made it through the first ply to the second ply when I was rounding the chines. The philipine mahogany (which is what the ply is also) seems to vary in color from red to almost white, same species. Are those the spots, Joel?

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:18 pm
by tech_support
great :D I was a little worried they might be air pockets - no offense.

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:23 pm
by chicagoross
PastorBob, the mahogany is so nice to work with, straight, no knots, glues and bends well. The smaller stuff like 3'8" for the rubrails actually seems cheaper than buying "white wood" at Home Depo, where the larger like 2x4 and up is up to double the price of the cheap lumber at Home Dopot. A 10' 2x4 costs about $20 here, but it's perfect, straight, you don't even have to pick through the pile it's all like that. The big piece for the skeg cost me about $40. I considered a conventional framed boat just so I could use that mahogany for framing! It's beautiful when you lay the epoxy on it, just like the old seats and consoles on the Boston Whalers way back when. Too bad it will all get glassed and painted over, no brightwork here in the tropics...

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:37 pm
by Spokaloo
Joel, there is a tattle tale spot in the last photo where there is a white spot thats outside the glass. I had the same concern, but saw that out and away from the glass, so I figured it was a random discoloration, or maybe Rossman was getting a little rowdy with the woodflour filler or something.

So CR, can you ship some of that lumber up to Seattle for me? Itd be worth the 4 hr drive to go pick it up!

E

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:16 am
by chicagoross
Spokaloo - trade you for BS1088? All we have to do is fill a 20' container... I just noticed a problem with my rubrails as I started putting on the 3rd layer. I'm thinking "this is a really thick rubrail..." Turns out my 3/8" mahogany that I paid $2.20 for a 10' piece, is really 1/2". Wondering if I should grind off the 1 piece I put on (probably not) or just have a really beefy rubrail. BTW, anyone that's jealous of my nice mahogany access has to remember no marine ply here and I have to pay about $50 to mail 3 gallons of epoxy...

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:46 am
by gk108
We need a 80' rum runner boat design to haul supplies back and forth from the South Pacific. Haul Marinepoxy and biax out and return with lumber and plywood. A 'resin runner', if you will. :help:

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:44 pm
by Spokaloo
When Jacques gets done designing the motorsailor, Ill start the trafficing.

Id go with the meaty rubrail. Lets consider the durability of that vs other boats that might collide with you, or docks with a mean attitude. I say go with it.

E

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:07 pm
by Cracker Larry
I'd go with it too.

I'm wishing I had some wood like that 8)

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:10 am
by chicagoross
Itchy day today. Sanded one side of the hull to smooth the runs and fabric overlaps in prep for glassing the sides. Rough shaped the skeg. (Spokaloo, the air bubble you spotted at the rear of the skeg was sanded off during the tapering of the skeg :D ). finished laminating the last 30' of rubrail. After I take off the clamps I'll run a sander over it and take a pic - truly massive. Vacuumed it all off again. Tomorrow, depending on mood I can either sand the other side or do some fiberglassing.

With the addition of the rubrails, the hull is getting very solid. The thought occurred to me that since other builders have glassed the insides in pieces after setting and fileting the frames (instead of all in one piece like the planing boats), and since the frames are supposed to be temp attached before flipping the hull, why not just set the frames before flipping? My thought is that during the several weeks of fairing and painting, I could do one frame a day - loosen the screws holding it to the jig uprights, slide it down, epoxy seal the edges and where it had been touching the hull, spatula a bit of putty all around, and then slide it back up the uprights to the hull and refasten the screws. Anyone see any drawbacks to this approach?

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:33 am
by Spokaloo
Shes gonna be one heavy SOB to roll over if the frames are in it.

Of course im a planer, so she got her glass while upright, but Im sure it can be done both ways. My only thought is you can do a better job of sighting things in when its upright as well, but you could always pave new trails trying it out!

E

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:39 am
by jeremy
One drawback I can see is that you won't be able to tape the fiberglass seams wet on wet, unless you are thinking of glassing over your head. Putting glass on fillets which are not fully cured is so much nicer than putting it on cured fillets (especially if you're kind of messy, like me) would be motivation enough for me to wait.

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:44 am
by fishingdan
I think it would be hard to work like that over your head. It may be difficult to fine tune the fit of the frames. Also, won't you have to cut out the inner portion of some frames?

I think I would stick to the proven approach. I'm sure it could work, but why invent a new method.

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:57 pm
by chicagoross
I'm too new at this method to try modifying it. Aren't the frames supposed to be tabbed in when you roll it? Not scared of flipping anymore - We rolled my 25 footer conventional, 5/8" sides and 3/4" bottom with 2x4 mahogany frames spaced at 20 " by hand with no problem. Course we had a dozen strong guys to do it. :D

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:36 pm
by TomW
There is tabbed in and tabbed in one or two tabs per fram is all you need just to keep them in position. Nothing serious. 4-6" tabs will hold them. Some guys have flipped without tabs.

You really don't want to work over your head. It is a h*** mess, and unless you get the epoxy consistency right the fiberglass likes to fall on your head.

Tom

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:52 am
by chicagoross
Feels like a milestone today - with my wife mixing epoxy we glassed the transom and skeg with biax and the sides with woven fabric. all that's left for the outer hull now is sanding and fairing and paint. Decided to go with graphite bottom and ordered the graphite yesterday. The damages thus far: 26 days, 76 man-hours of labor, and 7 gallons of epoxy (1 of which was used on glassing the sides which isn't called out in the lamination schedule). Here's the oversize mahogany rubrails:
Image
and here's the hull in need of fairing:
Image
Tomorrow back to the sanding... :roll:

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:31 am
by Spokaloo
I love the monster rubrails!

Nice flip-flops.

So what branch are/did you serve?

E

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:26 am
by chicagoross
OK, you guys know this part of the process - I spent a few days sanding drips and threads off. Then I spent a few days mixing blended filler and epoxy and spreading it out on the hull. Then today I started sanding again. More of the same for at least a week. It's not hell, maybe only purgatory. Not intense like when you're glassing - you can scratch yourself, answer the phone, get a drink, or have a smoke anytime you want. At least using my new RO sander, it sucks up the dust pretty good so you don't have to wear protective gear which is important when it's 88 degrees and 90% humidity. There will still be plenty around the chines, rubrails, skeg, etc. that will need the attention of the 1/4 sheet sander which makes a real mess. It will take longer than the hours justify, as I find I can handle about 2-3 hours a day of this tedium at a time. Everytime I think it's taking too long, I just think of O-Show's 26 footer. 8O

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:48 am
by chicagoross
3 coats of graphite/epoxy on the bottom, 3 coats of Kilz exterior oil-base on the sides, 3 layers of 1/2" x 2" mahogany on the rails. Need to tab the frames in place this week and build a cradle, were telling our friends we're having a filp[ping party next weekend. I'll be glad to see the other side of the boat finally! The grand totals for the project to-date: 37 days, 110 hours labor, 8.5 gal epoxy...
Image

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:53 am
by Spokaloo
Excellent progress!

E

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:54 am
by stevesmith81
At the rate your going you may be the first one to splash and HMD19

Great work!

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:22 pm
by davidtx
Wow! So that's what kind of progress you make when you're building your fourth boat! Looks gorgeous!

-david

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:58 pm
by chicagoross
Thanks for the comments (and encouragement) to all! My progress is quicker as I'm not limited by temperature here like you guys way up north. :D DavidTX, my only applicable experience for this was building a D4 from free plans here, using local concrete sealing epoxy. 8O Bending the rurails on is really about the only thing in common with my previous builds:
Image
Other than learning that one guy, even working alone, can start with a pile of plywood and end up floating. I've got to admit, I'm now spending a lot less time in the thinking chair, partly cause I now know it will float eventually, but also due to the great confidence I have in the Bateau plans. Finally, the ability to get a quick answer to about any question no matter how crazy or dumb, and the encouragement this forum group provides speed the process greatly. Bottom line, I'm still over double the hours the Bateau "average man" in the study plans took to get this far...

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:10 am
by davidtx
Oops - I could've sworn that I saw you say this was your 4th boat in another thread - must have been somebody else.

-david

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:23 am
by gk108
I'd sure like to have a talk with the "average man". He makes the rest of us look bad.

Hull looks great. Good luck with the flip.

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:10 am
by DPO
Looking good.
I really envy you the temperature. It was 40F in my shop
this morning. I have a fire going but it will take a couple
hours to bring it up to at least 60 so I can smear some epoxy.

Making very slow progress on my HMD18, but the project
is still proceeding.

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:11 pm
by chicagoross
Thanks for the comments, all! David, this is my 4th boat - the second is the 24 foot dory pictured above, the first was an 18 foot version - the 24' only took about 2 months to build (very simple interior just 5 18" seats, tiller control, no electronics, etc.). They are very simple to build conventional framed (2x4) flat bottomed boats. The 3rd was the D4 to learn a bit about stitch and glue. So this HMD18 is my first "real" stitch and glue boat. One nice difference on this one, the Marinepoxy from the website here is the nicest epoxy I have worked with yet. Yesterday, Sunday, was the 3rd day in 5 weeks that I did nothing on the boat, took a break. So I average about 3 hours boat work per day, but its steady. Today off to Home Depot for lumber to build a cradle.

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:22 pm
by davidtx
Thanks, I was afraid that my CRS infection was getting worse. Home Depot in Guam - nice. We lived in Singapore from 95-97 and building a boat would have been really tough. We really enjoyed living there, but after 2 years, I really missed having a yard and a shop.

-david

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:56 am
by chicagoross
building a cradle today. Tomorrow, finish the cradle (cross-braces and carpeting) and start tabbing the frames in place.
Image

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:14 pm
by chicagoross
On to the insides! The flip was totally uneventful this weekend and actually took about 5 whole minutes. Definitely not something to fear. Here's the process for anyone that hasn't done this yet:

Prep: Build a cradle to fit the hull; crawl under the jig and tab the frames in place (I used 4 5" pieces of 4" woven, no putty, for each frame panel); Place 4 car "jackstands" under the rubrails (fore & aft, port & strbrd); use the electric screwdriver to remove all the temp screws that held the frames on the jig and the uprights to the strongback; slide the strongback out from under the boat; go to the tire shop and borrow a dozen used tires; buy beer.

Flip: Round up ten guys, lay 3 rows of 4 tires out (in the street in front of my house :D ); 5 guys per side lift boat and carry to street (couldn't have weighed more than 400 pounds, really light); lay 1 rubrail on the first row of tires; roll on to chine (2nd row of tires) and over to keel (3rd row of tires). Put the cradle where the jig used to sit and carry the upright boat in. Like I said, the flip part actually took about 5 minutes, we could have done it with only 8 guys easily. My cradle has supporst under each frame member, and after first testing it with my 5 year old, found it is plenty solid enough to walk around in for doing the inside classing and fileting. So now, on to the insides!

BTW, I charged the camera battery but Rose, the designated photographer, was enjoying the process too much to remember to take a pic!

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:24 am
by chicagoross
Halfway through the inside of the hull: I've installed the clamping board, and fileted, taped, and glassed 3 of the 6 compartments so far. No issues thus far. Today I apparently crossed over some kind of hump on the stitch & glue learning curve (yeah, now that I'm this far along on the boat :lol: ) - filets went in smoothly with the first or second pass of the tongue depressor, tape went exactly where is was supposed to go and didn't come up with any bubbles, and the glass lay down flat and didn't want to wrinkle. I guess building a D4 wasn't enough to get the experience I needed, but today things were routine and fun instead of being non-stop challenge. Well, I told you this was practice for Evan's 21' tug!

The Yamaha lady is holding firm at $3999 for a new 9.8 25" shaft electric start remote control high-thrust, at that price she'll include cables and a tach. $3800 for a Merc 9.9 bigfoot, no tach but he'll include the steering. The Suzuki dealer finally heard from his distributor, and they will not ship anything smaller than 25 hp to Guam. :doh: But the real find was that the eveinrude/suzuki dealer where we went through the "unclaimed" repairs rack of old outboards and found a Yamaha high thrust electric start with a 25" shaft! It was brought in years ago by a Navy guy because he had broke the tiller handle and wanted it replaced. He never returned to either pay for a new handle or claim the motor, just told them "nevermind" when he was shipped off of Guam. Next week we're going to check it out thoroughly, but it does have compression and turns, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Don't need the tiller handle anyhow :D .

Final note today, finished cutting the biax cloth for the bottom insides - was getting worried as my 20 yard roll was getting so thin. Cut the last with 18" to spare. I'll use that to glass the inside of the transom above the clamping board on each side of the motorwell. I followed the schedule, except most of the inside has 6" each side of the keel just like the outside, the roll's not wide enough to do the inside without overlapping somewhere. I'd recommend changing the BOM from 16 yards biax to 20, I used it all!

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:12 am
by davidtx
Slow down - I'm trying to catch up! :):) That unclaimed Yamaha sounds like a real find. I didn't build a small boat first, but I've been thinking that it wouldn't have helped me avoid some of my goofs. This one feels like it is excellent practice for the next one though.

-david

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:37 pm
by colonialc19
Chicago, any new pics of the inside progress?? the way your rolling your close to being finished 8)

Laying aroung the house sick as a dog,
Daniel

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:25 pm
by TomW
Chicago nice work you are moving right along. Boy how I envy you your temps it was 18 degrees here at the house yesterday morning. No way to warm up the garage when it's that cold. And I'm supposed to be in the south. Well sort of anyway.

Tom

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:54 pm
by chicagoross
Tom, Guam is about on the Equator and is definitely "South" :lol: .

Daniel, not even close - We've also had a flu here so I've been moving pretty slow, and also a lot of business chores - I've been getting an hour or two a day in with a few days to sick to do anything. I'm running low on epoxy and am trying to use the gallon of medium hardener that was included in my order - that's slowing me down, I need to order more slow hardener, the mediums warming your hand while you stir the cup and doesn't have a long enough working time here to do more than slop it on quick.

The inside glassing and fileting/taping of the frames is done, the upper D frame is in, and right now I'm fileting in the bunk sides and motorwell uprights. Berths are cut but will need final fitting. I don't like where the plans show the boweye (hidden under the berth but basically on the cutwater just above water line), and am thinking of raising it even though the nuts will be visible in the berths (if you stick your head under frame f). I assume that if the stern eyes go through the clamping board that will be sufficient backing plate? or need ply on top of the clamping board as well? Well, still plugging along, or more like plodding. When I get the berth framing and motorwell done I'll put up some pics this week. This week I hope to finish the berths and motorwell and move on to sole clamp installation and running chases. I'm waiting for my gas tank to arrive.

Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:29 am
by chicagoross
The bottom line thus far: 57 days, 147 hours, 19 yards of biax fabric and about 10 of woven, 2+ rolls biax tape, 2 1/2 bags of woodflour and one of blended fibers, and 15 gallons of epoxy. Ordered more epoxy today.

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:40 am
by chicagoross
The boats upright, Paul's standing on the berth.
Image
looks like there will be plenty of room for the kids to nap when we're trolling.
Image

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:48 am
by chicagoross
Motorwell's in:
Image
The black line is the planned sole line; I'm thinking of lowering it between frames C and D to allow standing headroom in the pilothouse. To the right the pad for the fuel tank is being glued down. Very tight fit, even for the smallest tank out there (7 " tall or so) by the time you have a 3" fill pipe on top, but then need to allow room for the fill hose to bend under the sole. I had to make the fuel tank pad minimal, with one end of the pad actually sitting at deck level. There are side and center cleats under it, all tapered to level the pad, and the end of the pad that is higher than hull level is also cleated to frame C. Should be plenty sturdy for a 12 gal tank. I started with a wider pad stretching from frame B to C, but had to keep cutting it back and lowering it until I got the fill tube to bend under Sole level:
Image

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:44 am
by Cracker Larry
Wow, you sure work fast :!: You only started about 2 months ago, didn't you?

Beautiful work! Handsome boy! He'll never forget these times you spend with him 8)

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:25 am
by topwater
Looking good and youre going fast.
That is one massive rub rail.
What thickness is it? 4" ?

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:23 am
by Spokaloo
CR, I love that rubrail!

If you want to make that harpoon on the bow a little safer for heads and torsos at the dock, have a look at my bow treatment. Might save some bleeding later on.

E

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:32 pm
by davidtx
Beautiful boat and helper! Sweet rubrail. I wish I'd done this when my kids were still young.

-david

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:28 pm
by chicagoross
Thanks, guys! The rubrails are 3 layers of 1/2" mahogany, was bought as 3/8 but I was wrapping the 3rd layer before I realized how thick it was. I intend to round the bow, I was waiting til I template the front deck piece and see what it looks like. I'll check how you did it Spok. I'm 53, I just didn't take time to have any until I was 48. :lol: I'm pretty sure that if you want kids to help with the boatbuilding there's still time to have some! They don't generally help as much as the dogs....

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:35 pm
by Daddy
CR, I have been obsessing lately on how to vent the space where the gas tank is. How do you plan to vent yours.
Daddy

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:06 pm
by davidtx
chicagoross wrote:I'm 53, I just didn't take time to have any until I was 48. :lol: I'm pretty sure that if you want kids to help with the boatbuilding there's still time to have some! They don't generally help as much as the dogs....
Noooooo - I'm 53 too - kids at 28 & 30 - done with that and shifted to a dog - she behaves a lot like a kid, but still much easier. 53, young kids and building that boat this fast - you qualify for superman!

-david

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:27 pm
by Daddy
I'm 73 and the great grandkids are the age of CR's. What happened when I wasn't lookin'?
Daddy

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:03 am
by chicagoross
David, too funny - I did mine at 48 and 50! :lol: Before that it was dogs always and I agree they're much easier! The good ones know when you're working, find some shade and watch, kids never seem to learn that. :)

Daddy, that's what I'm wrrying about right now - I posted the question in the Power boat section (how to ventilate a below-the-sole tank) but didn't get much response. Maybe someone will pick it up here and give some examples. How much ventilation is needed or considered adequate? A 3 inch pipe up under the gunnels? Problem is that is basically venting it back into the rest of the boat. I'd love to vent it overboard but can't think of a way that can be done without risking water ingress. Can't have that as I'm planning on going the "sealed compartments" route below the sole.

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 4:35 pm
by Spokaloo
Hah, you old farts....


29, kidless, wife has a cat....

E

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 4:58 pm
by nort
I got divorced when I was 44. My mother said to me, " Maybe you can find a young one and have some kids now."

When I remarried I got grown step-children, sort of. My step son is disabled and still lives with us. However, my step-daughter had a precious little daughter about a year after I met her mother and six months before we married. It's fun being "Papa" even if I was never a papa.

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:14 pm
by chicagoross
Take it from an old fart, Eric - getting old's a bitch but it beats the alternative!

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:36 pm
by D2Maine
nm

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:53 pm
by chicagoross
D2, just finished fileting and taping the berths today, I'll wait til tomorrow to get a pic so I won't get stuck on it. It's big enough for me to stretch out in, but I'm only 5'10". My wife's 5'2", so no problem for us. My guess is if you're over 6', it's going to start feeling a bit small.

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:37 am
by chicagoross
Well, progress slow but steady. I've only been able to work on the boat a few hours each day, but at least each day I can see the progress... First, sorry for no pictures of me and the wife stretched out in the berths (we do fit well, but I'm only 5'10") as the forward berths compartment became my new workshop while working below the sole:
Image

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:42 am
by chicagoross
The aft compartments are divided (stringers?) and cleated, ready for the sole which is fitted and getting it's epoxy coats before laying. The center of compartment A/B will get a hatch overhead for storage, the B/C compartment dividers are for the fuel tank; you can see the level pad for tank in place. Chases still need to be run, and then foam in the outer compartments.
Image

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:49 am
by chicagoross
Compartment C/D is the pilothouse. Pad glued in center is for the bilge pump. The center compartment will be the sump with a hatch and shower drain in it. This is the low spot of the boat. You can see by the cleats that I'm lowering the sole 10" in this compartment, which will give the pilothouse standing headroom. Sorry for all the dust and mess in the photos, but every time I vacuum the insides out I seem to start running the grinder sanding disc again to level a cleat or whatever. I'll buy one extra sheet of 1/2" ply and cut the C/D sole in a single piece, that will leave me plenty of leftovers for the seatboxes etc., which will have to be 10" taller in this compartment, also for some footrests against the cabin bulkhead D. Again, after the chases are run I'll foam the side compartments.
Image

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:12 pm
by Spokaloo
You know, for lauan, that wood doesn't look half bad.

Good progress!

Now Im concerned that I need to get my boat in the water before you do, since I have about a year's head start!

E

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:35 pm
by ericsil
Good idea on lowering that sole. I could only get away with lowering in the V-berth due to the depth of the stringers on the P19 and the need for a lot more gas storage and structure in a planing hull. It should make your boat a lot more comfortable. It is nice to see the third boat in family coming together.

D2 -- The berth on the HMD is the same length as the P19 and plenty large enough for two unless they are really tall. The berth is a lot more comfortable than the one on my 26' sailboat.

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:45 pm
by ericsil
D2, Let me revise that comment about the V-berth. I didn't do my homework on this thread before I answered. The picture of his son is a little deceiving. There is a lot of room IF you utilize the space over the porta potty. You can see the amount this gives by looking at the pictures of the bed panels on my P19 gallery. I moved the potty completely out of the V-berth; but an insert to cover it when you need to sleep would provide the same bed area.

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:48 pm
by Evan_Gatehouse
Hey it's looking very nice.

What is this "vacuum" thing you speak of however? :doh:

I tend to use a broom and dustpan, scooping up about a pound of dust at at time.....

Seriously, I killed my shopvac with dust. Should have used a drywall filter bag

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:18 pm
by D2Maine
nm

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:47 pm
by chicagoross
Thanks for the comments to all! Boy, there sure is a lot of work to do before you get to sole level! That's 30 pieces of cleat glued in the cockpit area under the sole, plus I still have to frame for a hatch.

Eric, when I watched them strip the wrappers off the pallet of "Philippine Lauan" (what they sell it as) at the lumberyard, the overwraps were stenciled "Okume, China". Exterior grade, passes a boil test, smooth and almost no flaws on outer laminations, which are the same thickness as the iner ones. I had to return 1 sheet that had a delamination inside, huge, like they ran out of glue, very obvious when cut. Whatever it is (there's no such thing as truth in advertising on this side of the globe), its pretty nice to work with. It's sure not the "philippine lauan" that I saw at our new Home Depot here - I couldn't build a boat out of any of the various plywood lines they have there, hell, I wouldn't build a doghouse out of it. But it's sure nice to have all the other goodies! :D

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:02 pm
by chicagoross
Glued in support cleats for the hatch cover over the A/B storage compartment today, finished 2nd coat of epoxy under the sole pieces.

"Labor:
The hull can be build in 50 hours but a finished boat will require 250 hours or more depending on the level of detail and the skills of the builder. "

I passed 200 hours this week, and this is nice workboat finish (IMHO), not yacht. I haven't run chase tubes yet, still a bit of work before I work myself back up to sole level. I'm going to be lucky at this rate if I turn out half average... :roll: :lol:

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:30 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Ross I think it looks pretty damn good. Boat building has its highs and lows. I was hauling ass on my build and then I hit a wall. I read something Eric wrote somewhere about about slowing down when fairing and attention to detail that kind of recharged me. :D Looks like you will be chasing marlin and mahi in her soon 8O

Tell the Guamanians I said calm seas and tight lines

Richard

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:46 pm
by chicagoross
Actually, in fairness, my "level of detail" is higher than the bare bones plan: Multiple compartments (in addition to those on plan) under the sole all framed, extra hatches, under sole fuel tank instead of on deck, optional bilge pump etc. Modifications including the lowered pilothouse floor make more work, more to come. I've got over 25 hours in under sole work so far, if I were building bare plans without the optional undersole fuel tank, sealed compartments only, no bilge pump etc., I'd probably be finishing the decks right now and getting ready to put the cabin on. You can spend a lot of time setting up your "options" instead of building the basic boat.

That said, it will still take much less time to do these things now rather than adding them later :) . Just giving a heads up to future builders that some of the options like extra storage and the fuel tank are things you will likely want and they will take extra time.

I am really liking the way the boat is progressing, it does surprise you by getting "bigger" as you build - it's going to be a fun boat for the family to cruise and troll in comfortably. My wife loves the looks, is telling me to sell the plastic bathtub and finish this one!

I have two related regrets at this time: Scaling and metric.

I bought the metric plans planning to scale the boat length 10% making it a 20 footer. I scared myself off thinking of the few parts that would not scale easily in one direction because the measurements aren't actually strictly longitudinal, like motorwell and cabin parts. I was also worried about if the butt block splices would end up under a frame (looks like they would). So I didn't scale it. I should have stuck to my plan.

Since then, I've learned that templating a part isn't really difficult; the parts that might change a bit can be measured for when you get to that point, and you could cut a cardboard template if you're not really too confident of your measurements. Trimming 3/8" off a frame that ended up in the butt block spot wouldn't be a big deal. So, IMHO scaling this wouldn't have been too tough, just a little more work of the same things you're going to be doing anyway. A few more inches in the pilothouse and cockpit would be appreciated by everyone, and while I think the berths are good for a 6 footer, if you're taller than that you'd appreciate a few more inches there too.

But since I chickened out on scaling it, the metric plans have driven me crazy! I'm a 53 year old American, and although I've worked in the sciences and technical fields all my life using metric measures, my brain remains permanently calibrated in inches from childhood. Everything needs to be measured twice with the metric (which isn't a bad thing). But metric measuring tools are hard to come by in the US, measuring tapes are tough to find (other than the cheap chinese imports) and forget about carpenters squares, long straight-edge rulers, etc. If you're like me, 18" is a solid concept in your mind, but 457 mm might not mean much. To get a spacial concept from the plans when I read them at night in preparation, I have to sit there with a tape measure on the table (" :doh: Oh, a foot and a half"). :D

Fortunately Evan is working on the 21' displacement hull now, so future builders that really want a bit longer boat will be able to buy that plan.

Anyhow, this was just my opinion, everyone has one...

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:07 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Cr the freeboard of your hull is amazing. The boat litteraly swallows your boy. I am glad I didn't have to deal with all of the detail on my build.Your glass work is much better than mine. The hatches look great.

Richard

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:46 am
by chicagoross
100 days, 210 hours...still plugging along! Chase tubes were plumbed in and level soles were set on cleats in the transom storage boxes and fileted and taped. One side will be battery (s) and electrical, the other side looks the same but receives the fuel line and will have the filter/water seperator. The soles here were cut from the scrap of the cockpipt sole, and the forward end was about 1/2" narrower than I wanted - it still sat on the cleat OK but took a few extra cups of filet goop before the taping:
Image
The fuel tank was fastened in position on its rubber pad, I cleaned the side compartments and started foaming. Looks like maybe one more cup...This is just the A/B and B/C compartments, C/D where the sole is lowered won't have the sides foamed until I have cut the sole piece for this area and fitted it. As usual, no cleaning was performed before the photos were taken. The weekend's here, have a bunch of family stuff to do, then next week I'll cut out the forward sole, foam those compartments, and start laying all the soles. I have alll the hatches and inspection plates ready to go, hopefully next weekend I'll have a solid sole to walk on! That foam is fun and funny stuff, I kept Cracker Larry's experience firmly in the front of my brain to prevent daydreaming. I also work alone at home during the day (not even a dog to help), and I couldn't even remember where the acetone can was, so just watched the stirring very carefully.
Image

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:53 am
by topwater
Chicagoross youre moving right along.
The build is looking real good.
Keep the pics comming i enjoy watching youre build :)

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:43 am
by chicagoross
Closing time! epoxied the pilothouse sole to its cleats. All plumbing (below the sole) finally done! I know, lots more later. :D Just happy to get to the point where it feels like moving to something new! You can see the lowered pilothouse sole (10" lower than the cockpit sole) pretty good here. Gives me (5'10") standing room under the pilothouse at the helm. Think its pretty close though - if you're 6' or over you'd better wait for Evan's MM21 plan. :D
Image

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:02 am
by Cracker Larry
CR, you're doing some beautiful work there :!: Looks real good. Moving fast too. Nice looking glass work. The foam is fun, isn't it 8) I've got a few of those spots that takes a couple of extra cups of goo, also. Got to love epoxy :D

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:17 am
by ericsil
Nice looking boat. It is really interesting to see how much Jacques displacement 19' differs from the planning design. I envy how much room you have around the gas tank and in the pilot house.

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:20 am
by jeremy
You're doing a great job. I really like this plan and it's exciting to see lots of pictures of one being built, especially one built so well.

Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:24 am
by chicagoross
Thanks for the kind comments, all! Feel like I got a lot done today. My usual is about two hours per day of boat work, today I got that done before the family woke up. Then a little business work for a while, and after lunch my wife took the kids out for the afternoon - so got another 4 hours of work in! The fore and aft soles are glued down, fileted and taped. The soles have a primer coat of epoxy on and are ready to be glassed. Piddly stuff this afternoon, cut fit and glued backing plates for the bow eye, the stern eyes (probably overkill since they're through the clamping board, but oh well) and cut fit and epoxied cleats to the top of the transom storage boxes, you can see lots of clamps in the background! The little stuff like this is waht seems to take the most time in building a boat...
Image

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:47 am
by chicagoross
Trimmed the stern compartments clamps down to the right angles and curves; drilled the backing plates for stern and boweyes oversized and fileed them back up with thickened epoxy; sanded the hull sides and sole from transom to frame D; layed the first 50" sheet of woven fabric on the sole, made it to about a foot short of frame C. One sheet at a time, will grind the edge and continue tomorrow. For a good description of laying woven fabric on your sole, see Larry's thread. :D

Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:27 am
by chicagoross
Builders take note: I found several things NOT to do per plan today!!!

The soles are glassed and trimmed, time to start working on frame uppers, seatboxes, and superstructure! Today I go sweaty, but not dusty or sticky. Just got out the plans and all the measuring tools, laying out frame and seatbox positions. Stacked stuff to the plans seatbox height. Layed everything out.

Here's what I found: Like I had observed in DougN's gallery, I'm also going to have to lower the planned seatbox tops about 4.5". The 18" height in the plans would be OK if you planned to sit on the bare plywood seatbox, but if you need a bit of padding or plan to put a seat there (like the plans show) 18" plus another 4" or so for the seat and the swivel will have you dangling your legs and bouncing your head on the roof.

The next thing I found, as Yoda did, is that you are going to need to cut the decks oversize (outboard) if you want them to overlap the rubrail as shown in the plans. Not a big problem to cut the outside edge of the decks an inch oversize and trim it after fastening it, but would be a real bummer if you cut it first without checking the fit. Would be a major deal if you had purchased a precut ply package and found that it only overlaps the 3/8" ply hull, but not the rubrails as shown in the construction details!

Bottom line, when you get to this part of the build, it pays big to measure reality before cutting to plans! :D

Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:11 am
by davidtx
I just bought another sheet of plywood from my local supplier because I naively cut the gunwales out using the plan dimensions (way back when I was cutting out the hull). I have the same problem - they are the same width as the frame tops and don't overlap the rubrail. Jacques says that some people use an in-wale (sp?) and don't overlap the rubrail to aid in wrapping glass over the top (I'm not sure I understand this) and that many of the plans show a dotted line on these panels to indicate that you have options. I'm going to cut my new gunwales proud and trim them with a router.

At first I wondered why the seat height on the standard console plan was so short and then I realized it is just right if you add a cushion.

-david

Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:53 am
by ericsil
Let me echo your comments about the deck dimensions from the work on my P19. I did have a precut kit and had to increase the width of the cabin about 1.5" to compensate for the overlap on the rub rail. This caused a lot more work on the cabin joints and having to add an extra piece in the center of the windshield. Make sure you have plenty of extra to trim off the deck if you want a nice joint at the top of the rub rail.

Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:30 pm
by Spokaloo
Keep in mind also you can cheat and apply the rubrails one thickness of the ply higher, and glue it up inside the rubrails. This requires some attention to detail on the frames, but it is an option for kit builders.

E

Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:41 am
by chicagoross
Eric, thanks but I did rubrails a couple months ago :lol: I wasn't aware of all this when I glued the rubrails on while the hull was upside down, but it would have made it easier for me, especially since I ended up with a rubrail about that's 12/8ths instead of 9/8ths like if I had been using ply strips. Since my rail is oversized I'll have no choice but to cut decks oversize and trim them back, no biggie, that's how you do it on conventional ply-on-frame boats which I'm experienced with. What I'm not happy about, since I glued all 3 layers of the rail together even, is the large gap between the top of the outer rail and the bottom of the overlapping deck that will have to be filled with a lot of thickened epoxy. The rails are 1.5 inches thick, and the gap will be maybe 3/8" or so at the outer edge (because the deck is angled differently than the hull sides). I'm thinking of gluing a piece of half round or quarter round trim around the edge before I start gluing the decks down, to reduce the amount of thickened epoxy I'll have to pack in there otherwise. That's still at least a week away, got taxes to do. :D

DavidTX, Ericsil, it appears to me that the deck dimensions are just taken straight from the CAD drawings, without allowing for the rubrail overlap shown on the construction drawings. I'm pretty sure that if mine (HMD18) were shown drawn big enough for the overlap, they would not have fit on the nesting diagrams...Anyhow, thanks for sharing your experience with me so that at least I know it's not just because of my incredible incompetance! :)

Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 6:29 pm
by Spokaloo
You know you could do a straight quarter-round like the old canvas decks had, which would look salty enough.

Or you could taper the rubrail and fair it all together.

Or you could cut a piece of ply the correct width all around, glue it to the top of the rail, and call it even. This could also be planed down by hand to give more curvature.

A piece of foam filler would do the trick too.

So many options!

E

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:23 am
by chicagoross
That was too many options, made my head hurt! Thin strips of ply might be a good way to whip this problem, though...Wouldn't have to be precision work, just glue it on, whack a bunch of it back off with the power planer, and start gluing the decks on...When I figure it out I'll try to post a pic for future reference. Thanks for the ideas, as always, Eric!

BTW, were you getting a kick out of the fuel compartment vent conversation above? When I asked those questions a month ago no-one had much input. Uncle Ralph at least came forward and said he hadn't done anything there...I talked with two local boat builders (commercial but small) that use plastic tanks and don't vent. Can't quite remember the tank setup on your Nina, but I'll be interested to see what you do!

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:35 pm
by Doug N
Chicagoross
Just uploaded pictures of how I did my rubrail. Planed down the top edge of the hull some, to meet the outer edge of the rubrail at the proper angle. Looks like it will work out fine. I had to modify the tops of frames etc to match this slightly lower height. Something to think about.
Doug
http://gallery.bateau2.com/displayimage.php?pos=-16845
http://gallery.bateau2.com/displayimage.php?pos=-16846

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:20 pm
by davidtx
This is excellent stuff on the rubrail deck joint. I'm not that far away from facing the same issue and my wallet gets warm whenever I think about using that much epoxy and wood filler to fill that gap.

-david

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:28 pm
by chicagoross
Thanks, DougN! Last night's brainstorm on this was that the biggest part of my problem is the oversized rubrails, and that I could solve a bunch of the problem by simply planing half of the outerlayer or rail off (on an angle, the top half, creating a more vertical outer face to the rail). That would reduce the amount of epoxy to the planned amount, by reducing the top part of the rail to the planned amount...

In conjunction with a little judicious planing and slight reduction of the frame tops as you are showing, that should get me to a comfortable and not too sloppy epoxy joint.

Is that a recent photo? Am I catching up?

DavidTX, I kind of chuckle everytime I look at you process, seems like we are going through the same stages of the build almost to the week! Whatever you show you're doing seems to be what I was just working on - different hull, but the pics all look real familiar. Like I said, though, if we keep this up you'll be painting while I'm trying to put the cabin and pilothouse together. I may catch up again after that because I'm planning a workboat finish. I suspect we'll be water ready at about the same time. I'm likely to get hung up with waiting for a motor, though...

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:19 pm
by Cracker Larry
I did the same thing with my rubrails, for the same reasons :D

Image

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:38 pm
by Spokaloo
I like that planing idea for a short framed boat because it will be easy to do. On the decked boats with full frames, as long as you are careful about how you do the radius on the frame, I like it.

I wish I would have done it that way on my boat, because the final product has a couple little hooeys in it that Im not fond of, and once she cures, shes cured! Had a clamping pressure problem that resulted in some dips that I won't point out to anyone, and I will know about in my waking hours.....

E

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:18 pm
by davidtx
chicagoross wrote: DavidTX, I kind of chuckle everytime I look at you process, seems like we are going through the same stages of the build almost to the week! Whatever you show you're doing seems to be what I was just working on - different hull, but the pics all look real familiar. Like I said, though, if we keep this up you'll be painting while I'm trying to put the cabin and pilothouse together. I may catch up again after that because I'm planning a workboat finish. I suspect we'll be water ready at about the same time. I'm likely to get hung up with waiting for a motor, though...
Yeah - my "process" is mostly full speed ahead, followed by, em how did Cracker Larry put it, sailor words, followed by a fix. As to our progress being in synch - I guess us 53 year olds just work at about the same speed :) I ordered my motor a few weeks ago to take advantage of Yamaha's 6 year warranty if you bought before the end of March. I'll pick it up in Houston later this month. I have a spreadsheet with a fairly detailed schedule. I'm sure I've left some things off, and I'm a day or two behind right now. I sure want to go fishing this summer!

-david

Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:59 am
by chicagoross
113 days, 252 hours, 21 gallons of epoxy 8O : Now that the soles are all in and glassed, I've been working an hour or two each day on the upper side of the boat again! Kind of fun after playing with the inside of the hull for so long. :) It's also fun because it's starting to feel like a boat, now that I'm working inside on a level sole!

Bow and stern eyes are in, with backing plates, drilled oversize, etc. Planned out my seatboxes and since I'm skipping the sink and stove, I'm staying with single level seatboxes. I integrated the back of the seat boxes with the Frame C uppers (backside of the pilothouse). The cockpit will remain open except for a large cooler in the back (fishbox) and two small coolers forward on either side (beer coolers and the kid's seats - since it's a displacement hull and takes a long time to get anywhere, I figured it was going to need two beer coolers.) All frame uppers are now in and fileted and taped, excepting the frame F deck support; I picked up cleats today so that I can get the hole pattern and backing plates right for that. I'm going to do a little judicious shaving of the top of the hull and rails, as DougN and Cracker Larry, as well as narrowing my wide rails a little, before fitting the deck to overlap. Still have to finish my seatboxes and put hatch cover supports in the transom storage boxes before laying the deck.

The boat cockipit was seeming huge when I finished the soles, but now that the frame uppers are in it has shrunk... :(

Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:21 am
by ericsil
I am glad to see that Spokaloo and Cracker (the old salts) came to the same conclusion I did about matching the deck to the top of the rub rail. That picture in the instructions with epoxy filling the gap made me cringe every time I looked at it. I found my big belt sander was the easiest way to shape the wood before gluing on the deck, but same result. Forge ahead Chicago, you will be floating in no time.

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:49 pm
by chicagoross
Well, I templated and fit the bow deck supports, finished the seatboxes and fileted and taped them. Next is the seatbox tops and the side decking. Before that, though, I counted 62 pieces of cleating that need to be cut, fit, and glued: Seatbox tops, frame tops, gunnels, and the supports for the 4 large hatches (transom box tops and seatbox sides)...Cut fit and glued in 18 yesterday before I ran out of clamps. The nice thing here is that all but 2 of the 62 pieces can be simply clamped in place to glue, unlike the hull edges of the sole and berth tops for which I had to cut pieces of 1x2 to "wedge" in place against the hull sides to glue. This should go quickly in 3-4 days...

What a compulsive hobby we enjoy! After I finish all this cleating, I can install the side decks and then - yes, I can cut fit and glue more cleats underneath the decks for the inwhales to be cut, fit, and glued to! :D Slowly but surely...

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:50 pm
by cedarock
Getting close chicago! It seems like a little step here and a little step there and all of a sudden, you say wow...it looks like she will float. Compulsive, I will agree. I have missed a few meals on account of these things. But hey, that is a good thing for me! :lol:

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:02 am
by chicagoross
18 more pieces of cleat. :D Ran out of clamps again, had to use some screws on the seatboxes. I think when the side decks go on it's going to start looking like a boat. Cedarock, looks like the HM is a little different in that you have a lot of the guts (stringers etc.) done before hoisting the sides. On the HMD, all the interior work is done after the hull is assembled - you have a long period of time sitting inside the boat (very carefully as it's only held together by the exterior chine tapes) while you glue in frames and glass the bottom inside. It was exciting when I finally got it "built" up to the sole level - the next "milestone" for me is getting the side decks on. Then on to the cabins, which I'm really looking forward to, and smoothing out the insides enough to paint (which I'm really not looking forward to!) Got to admit this is a little more project than I anticipated, I had only built open skiffs before. Having a real interior on the boat, even a small one like ours, seems to basically double the work, plus once you're inside the boat you seem to often be working in tight areas, doing a lot of bending and reaching that I used to do easier than I do now!

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:18 am
by Spokaloo
Wow, I really like all the photos so we can see whats going on, it looks great!

:doh:

:lol:

E

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:50 am
by ks8
Spokaloo wrote:Wow, I really like all the photos so we can see whats going on, it looks great!
yes...

two or three overall shots will do if you can snap 'em between epoxy batches. Besides, your camera has no honor if there is no epoxy on it yet.... 8)

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:03 pm
by chicagoross
I took more, but my dial up only had time to upload 1 before I had to run. This morning this is what the mess looks like in the space where my truck used to take refuge from the tropical sun and downpours. To make the boatbuilding pics look more realistic, I didn't sand, dust, vacuum or clean anything:
Image

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:36 pm
by ks8
Hey Look! A boat! :)
chicagoross wrote:To make the boatbuilding pics look more realistic, I didn't sand, dust, vacuum or clean anything...
Surely, o doctor of spinnology... :lol:

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:05 pm
by cedarock
doing a lot of bending and reaching that I used to do easier than I do now
I know what you mean! Bending over the sides has stretched muscles of mine that has not been stretched in many years. My legs have adapted now that I am almost over with that part. Your boat is looking great...like the way that you framed out the stern compartments.

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:30 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yeah, after a year or so it don't hurt so bad :wink:

Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:57 pm
by chicagoross
Setting the hatch supports; I use a block of scrap, a piece of duct tape so the epoxy doesn't stick, and a couple 1" nails to hold the pice in place while the epoxy goo sets up.
Image

Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:59 pm
by chicagoross
So this is what the transom boxes look like when I'm done:
Image

Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:01 pm
by chicagoross
Final seatbox cleats going in:
Image

Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:19 pm
by jeremy
Is that blue stained lodgepole pine? I'm currently building a trestle table and benches out of that. The forests here and in B.C. are being decimated by pine beetles because the winters no longer get cold enough to kill the beetles. They stain the wood blue in the process of killing it. I never thought I'd see pictures of that wood (which is dirt cheap here - ~$5 for a rough cut 2x6x8) in Guam.

Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:43 pm
by chicagoross
The 1x2 cleats are whatever the cheap furring strips at Home Depot are...the 1x1 is mahogany. All wood and ply in the boat is Mahogany except for those 1x2s.

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:20 am
by jeremy
Thanks Ross. I think I was referring to the 1x2's - it's a little hard to figure out the scale from the photos, but it's certainly not the mahogany. I was just surprised to see that wood there, but I suppose I shouldn't be as there are a LOT of dead trees to get rid of. It makes interesting looking furniture. Here's the top of the table I'm working on (and my dog):

Image

Anyway, sorry to hijack your thread. I can't wait to see this boat in the water. The HMD is definitely on my list of possible builds (when I move back somewhere with enough water in which to float a HMD) and you're doing a great job of documenting the build.

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:38 pm
by Spokaloo
Jeremy I had the exact same idea run through my head.

Why the hell are they selling pine in Guam? Look at all the tropical hardwoods! Crazy....

Can't wait to see the cabin framed up!

E

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:07 pm
by nort
I believe the stain is the fungus that actually kills the tree. We have been have problems with that in the South for years. A vacant lot near my mother has like 7 or 8 dead pines in it. The lady next door won't let the city cut off her electricity for the couple of hours it will take to cut the pines. She will be sorry first big storm when one of the dead pines breaks off on her house.

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:19 pm
by davidtx
Its looking good! See, I told you that your seat boxes wouldn't slow you down any more than my baitwells.

-david

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:36 pm
by chicagoross
Home depot has corrupted guam. :) A lot of the old hardware and lumber stores are having a hard time adjusting. $1.39 for a 8' 1x2 instead of $5. If it was anywhere that would show, I would have used the mahogany anyhow.

Tools and hardware are the big benefits. You can see the hardware instead of having to ask for a certain size screw! Some of the other stores are now remodeling to follow. I don't think the good lumber yard will close, as HD has nothing comparable, but it has been hurt. At home depot I can buy a pack of 25 sheets of sandpaper, at the other stores can only buy by the sheet.

I haven't seen a sheet of ply at HD that I would use anywhere in a boat.

Finishing installing the last cleats today!

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:39 am
by Plotalot
nort wrote:I believe the stain is the fungus that actually kills the tree. We have been have problems with that in the South for years. A vacant lot near my mother has like 7 or 8 dead pines in it. The lady next door won't let the city cut off her electricity for the couple of hours it will take to cut the pines. She will be sorry first big storm when one of the dead pines breaks off on her house.
Blue stain fungi doesn't kill trees. It enters dead or damaged trees. Hurricane Katrina put a lot of stress on the trees in the Pine Belt of Mississippi which made them susceptible to to the Southern pine beetle which not only kills trees, but introduces the fungus to the trees.

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:24 am
by chicagoross
Updates: 4 months, 286 hours, and 20 gallons of epoxy. Yesterday I finished glueing in the last cleats needed before laying the decks. I also cut and fit seatbox tops, glued backing plates for the seats to their undersides, and fit and drilled a backing plate for the bilge pump through-hull which is under one of the seatbox tops, so needed to get it done. Today I sanded inside the seatboxes and transom boxes for painting tomorrow before they're covered, and got two coats of epoxy on all of the cleat work that I've completed, plus two coats on the bottoms of the seatbox tops.

I'd hoped for pics of all that nice mahogany once it had been sanded and epoxy coated, before it gets covered up with paint. Instead the epoxy-coated mahogany turned into the worl'd largest and most expensive fly trap this afternoon :( . So it will get another de-bugging sanding tomorrow...

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:13 pm
by WobblyLegs
chicagoross wrote:The next thing I found, as Yoda did, is that you are going to need to cut the decks oversize (outboard) if you want them to overlap the rubrail as shown in the plans. Not a big problem to cut the outside edge of the decks an inch oversize and trim it after fastening it, but would be a real bummer if you cut it first without checking the fit. Would be a major deal if you had purchased a precut ply package and found that it only overlaps the 3/8" ply hull, but not the rubrails as shown in the construction details!
Ross, I only 'discovered' your thread a couple off weeks ago (I know, not paying attention) and am amazed how far you have progressed. The above statement caught my attention, so I though I'd show you what I have done on my boat...

I didn't like the idea of rounding off the edges, 'cos I just *know* that someone is going to slip off the edge on a wet deck! My deck plans also show the wood overlapping the side ply, but not enough for the rub rail, so I have glued in some 12mm (deck is 6mm) dowels to fill that gap, and give me a bit of security when walking around the boat.

Image

Image

Image

If you take a look at my thread (just updated) you'll see an explanation for those gaps, which I think would suit your boat well.

All imho of course ;)

Keep building, and at this rate you'll probably launch before me!!!

Regards,

Tim.

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:37 pm
by chicagoross
Tim, I love your idea! I was thinking of a 1/2 round on top anyhow, as a kind of toerail... I would have been happy to borrow your idea if you had posted this about 2 days earlier... :roll: :lol: I'm cut oversized and glued down now already, with a lot of grinding and sanding to do to make it presentable... :(

Hopefully someone else will benefit here, slick idea!

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:41 pm
by WobblyLegs
chicagoross wrote:...if you had posted this about 2 days earlier...
Oh, bugger, sorry 'bout that. :oops:

Still, the same can be achieved with half-round... :)

Tim.

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:52 pm
by gk108
WobblyLegs wrote:Still, the same can be achieved with half-round
Like this:
Image
My dressed up cleat on the outside is like your rubrail. Plywood deck over that and half-round drip rail to top it off. Covered with a 6 oz cloth strip.

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:17 pm
by ericsil
You definitly need something to help your footing when you are walking the deck beside the cabin on the HM series. I decided on a toe rail with a square edge, rather than a rounded top to add some additional traction. Even with that the odds of falling off some day are not insignificant.

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:04 pm
by chicagoross
Thanks for the pics and tips, guys! I wish my work looked more like that... :( . The seatboxes are fileted, taped, and done! Decks are glued down, no sanding/planing'grinding/gooping/rounding the edges yet, out of wood flour (10 pounds so far...more in the mail) and no pics as the camera seems to be missing in action.

The big thing of note right now is another suggestion for updating/correcting the plans: (thats about 6 so far, I'll compile them and post them later). When I laid my decks, I find that the boat is about an inch per side narrow at the shear at frame E, and about 1 1/2" narrow at partial frame F. I'm keeping the inwhales per plan so as to use all planned cabin specs and dimensions, meaning the barely-able-to walk on deck forward became don't-think-about-it, maybe only 3" after rounding the gunnels. The plans have no reference to either a temp mold at frame F, or putting ears on lower frame E during the building on the jig; using these, or possibly a spacer at shear level, would have resulted in the planned geometry forward. If anyone's setting up a HMD on a jig, I'd ask Evan about a spacer or temp mold or a lower frame at frame F.

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 6:37 pm
by chicagoross
Decks are glued down - cut the inwhale cleats and will glue them today.
Image

Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 6:46 pm
by chicagoross
That step went easier than I expected! After cutting each cleat to fit, I laid it along the top of the deck as a guide, then drove a temp screw at each end outboard of the cleat position as a stopper; then buttered the cleat with epoxy, held it in place with a spring clamp at each end, pushed in the middle to fit the curve, and drove a single temp screw through the deck into the cleat to hold the curve. I was worried about splitting the 1x1 cleats during this step, but had no problems. Then I clamped the rest of the cleat and was done in two sessions due to the limits of clamp availability - never enough clamps, I don't care how many you have! On to inwhales! :D

Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 8:39 pm
by davidtx
She's looking real good CR. If all goes well, I'll have the console in and decks on mine by the end of the weekend. The back to fairing...

-david

Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 9:16 pm
by chicagoross
Thanks David! I figure a few more weeks to get the cabin up and then I'll be doing the sanding blues too... :( Wonder how long it'll take to fair the insides :doh:

Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:05 pm
by cedarock
I know what you mean chicago...I am not looking forward to the sanding! Is there anything that we can associate with sanding to make it fun! :lol:

Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 3:32 am
by steve292
cedarock wrote:I am not looking forward to the sanding! Is there anything that we can associate with sanding to make it fun! :lol:
Beer & rock music works for me :D

Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 1:58 pm
by colonialc19
Rock on!! 8)

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 3:17 am
by chicagoross
Haven't started the inwhales yet, I got sidetracked...Decided it would be good to glass the decks now that they're on first, as the glass would lay flat without worrying about the inwhales. Of course, that meant I needed to round the edges first! Took three days, first with the planer, then the sander, then glop filler in the gaps and let it harden overnight. Then sand again, and found some areas that needed a bit more filler, filled them and let it harden again. Today's sanding looks pretty good. Then I decided to carry on the rounding of the edges aqround the transom, and motorbox wells, which I started today. Then I decided now's the time to reinforce Frame A topsides where it completes the motorwell, so that all the deck glassing and taping can be done at one time. Didn't finish that today.

I did finally get word from the Merc dealer here, He couldn't figure out how to order a 9.9 Bigfoot with 25" shaft, remote steering, and power trim and tilt, no-one here has ever wanted suchj a thing before. He finally figured it out and quoted me $2760 complete except cables. I figured that was good since Ed's is posting $2400, and my price includes freight and insurance to Guam and Guam 4% GRT tax! Plus I'll be getting it from a real dealer with warranty etc., better than shipping one from the states myself and no-one will touch it if I have a problem Way better than the $3999 that the crazy Yamaha dealer wanted for a 9.8 high-thrust set up the same way! So I wrote him a check, sceduled for June manufacture and shipping!

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 7:40 pm
by cedarock
That's great about the motor! Can't wait to see you get it wet.

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 12:04 am
by chicagoross
Only worked on the boat about and hour a day this week, laminating pieces of wood to the A frame top until the motorwell was stiff enough and pretty enough for my liking. Today after breakfast and mother's day stuff. my wife decided to go out with the girls for a while. So I glassed the decks and rails! Done! In a happy un-planned coincidence, the cutoffs from glassing the hull sides fit perfectly for covering the decks and wrapping over the rub-rails; the only piece I had to cut new was the triangle for the bow. Now I can start working on the cabin! Pics tomorrow after clean-up.

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 1:30 am
by TomW
Great news on the motor CR. Sounds like you are keeping working away.

Tom

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 1:30 am
by TomW
Great news on the motor CR. I know you were sweating that one. Sounds like you are keeping working away.

Tom

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 5:39 pm
by chicagoross
It all seems so slow at this point! I need to cut all the control cable holes, cut the decks for fuel fill, rod holders, cleats, glue cleats to sole to hold the coolers, clean up all the drips and blobs before putting up the cabin, etc., etc., etc. I'm sure that everything I do will let me see a new task. And this is before the rigging, etc., which I know will take a lot of time! Anyhow, the rails and rounded and deck and rails glassed:
Image

Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 5:45 pm
by davidtx
chicagoross wrote:It all seems so slow at this point!
Ain't it the truth! I thought I was never going to get finish drilling holes, filling with epoxy and re-drilling.

-david

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 3:56 am
by chicagoross
:( Screwed up good today! Months ago, I had cut one of the frame C uppers (rear pilothouse supports) as a template to use in cutting the curves on Frame D. Today I hauled out the last sheet of 3/8" plywood and happily used the template to cut 5 more. Then I attempted to put two of the halves together and erect them, and it was clear that they were cut wrong. I remeasured and found that I had used the dimension to the bottom center as the dimension to the top center. Cutting to the right dimensions, I was able to cut 4 of the required 6 frame uppers using the remaining plywood. They fit OK.

This is the 3rd measuring error that I have cut wrong since starting in December. One was 2" too big, and no problem cutting to fit. The other was too small, but not in a bad place and I glued it back together. Today's error was the first that cost me plywood, and I compounded the error 6 times over! 8O :cry: :oops: :x

Got to get another sheet of ply tomorrow. On the bright side, I may be able to use the ones that were cut wrong as the temporary mold for frame E cabin top (the top curves were right), and the upright parts can become the inwhales...I also now have a lot of little pieces that I can use for backing plates...

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 11:58 am
by Spokaloo
:wink:

Now you are a boatbuilder!

No worries man, happens to everyone.

E=

Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 2:08 am
by chicagoross
Not so bad when I looked at it today calmly... :) The two more pieces that I need can be cut from the ones that I cut wrong and sandwiched in between the 4 that were cut right. I'll still be able to make the forward cabin mold with the leftovers...no more plywood today!

Anyhow, here's how the frame A top reinforcement, trim, and glassing came out:
Image

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 3:10 am
by chicagoross
Started on the cabin yesterday. Lots of bits and pieces to trim and fit. The "reality check" at this point: 5 months, 349 hours, and 21 gallons of epoxy. Here's where I'm at:
Image

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 9:56 am
by ericsil
I now see what you were saying about the width of that deck beside the cabin. The P19 deck is twice that wide and I am still thinking about a hatch in the top of the cabin, if only to give a safer way to weigh the anchor.

Really nice seeing the other two HM types come together. Keep it going. Less than three gallons of epoxy to go.

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 6:43 pm
by cedarock
Looking good Chicago. I suppose that you just glued the ends of the cabin roof longitudinal frames to the cabin front and rear panels. Do they seem secure? I am thinking that I might glue a 2" - 2 1/2" strip of 3/8 or 1/4 horizontally at the top of the front panel notched to receive the longitudinal frames.

I can see myself perched in that spot from time to time and I am a little on the heavy side. :oops: On the other hand, the roof will be glued to the longitudinal frames and that will provide support all along. Maybe not!

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 10:08 pm
by chicagoross
I notched the cabin bulkhead for the longitudinals, but not the cabin front. You're right, they'll then get fileted and taped to the cabin roof, which is fileted and taped to the front panel and the bulkhead. I'll be doing a little extra framing for the hatch that will go in the middle, and more filet and tape there. With as small as the decks are forward, I don't think anyone will be walking forward to sit on the cabin on this boat. Pretty sure it's going to be strong enough.

At the rate you're going, I'm just hoping to get the cabin topped off before you do! :lol:

Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 7:53 pm
by cedarock
At the rate you're going, I'm just hoping to get the cabin topped off before you do!
Yeah right! :) I am getting ready to slow down tremendously. I remember finishing the outside of the fs12. Prime, find a flaw, fair.....prime, find a flaw, fair......prime, find a flaw, fair......buy more fairing compound..... prime, find a flaw, fair!

Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 4:02 am
by chicagoross
Then I'll get wet first! :) I'm going for a "nice" workboat finish; smooth with the RO but not longboarding or getting carried away. This will be a fishing boat. I do a good layer of the blended filler, sand smooth, do it again in any spots that I can still see problems, sand again, and paint. The outside hull is done and has three coats of primer already, but will have to touch up for thru-hulls and a few drips...Not sure how long the insides will take. There's a lot of nooks and crannies, but it doesn't have to be as smooth as the outsides...I'm guessing two weeks of smoothing and two weeks of painting, but we'll see...I probably have til the end of June before my motor gets to Guam. Plus all the fittings, controls, electronics, no idea how long all that will take. After that, I need Evan's new MM21 plans... Hey Cedarock, I was looking through old HM19 threads last night and saw one guy (forget the name, do a search) launched is HM19 6 weeks after receiving his plans!

Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 6:10 pm
by cedarock
I remember reading his thread as well. He threw that thing together in a hurry.

Can't wait to see you floating in it!

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 3:29 am
by chicagoross
Still plodding along...Fileting inside the cabin, over your head, while crouched on the berths that the epoxy is dripping on, 95 degrees and no ventilation since portholes and hatch can't be cut til the fileting is done, is not particularly fun...I still got some more of that to do but it's coming along. The boats a mess, I'm a mess, but I'm starting to see the HMD emerging from the mess!
Image
Image

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 5:45 am
by WobblyLegs
chicagoross wrote:The boats a mess, I'm a mess, but I'm starting to see the HMD emerging from the mess!
Yup, it looks like a boat now, instead of a hull.

Nice! 8)

I know there's lots of talk here about using vinegar to clean epoxy, but after I got a load in my hair from inside the cabin I found shampoo and soap works just fine as long as the epoxy is still liquid.

Tim.

Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 8:08 pm
by cedarock
Chicago...it is really looking nice! Great shot from the bow.

Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 3:47 am
by chicagoross
Thanks, guys! Almost finished inside the cabin, plus have the windshields fileted and taped. Lots of scrubbing epoxy off my legs and out of my hair from working inside the cabin. After that I can start working on the pilothouse roof.

Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 5:22 pm
by chicagoross
BTW, this is for the "trust the designer" file: I was concerned about the cabin and pilothouse being made of 1/4" ply, as I have several other designer's packages for similar size boats, one of which uses 3/8" and 3 of which call for 1/2" ply. I considered using 3/8 for the sidewalls (I know the bends are doable, justification on weight that 1/2 of it is cut out and thrown away for windows..)and went according to plans instead.

I shouldn't have worried, it's just like the hull build - starts out very flimsy, fragile, and wobbly, but with each filet and tape you add (and there are a lot!) is gets more rigid. After the first few filets and tapes, I stopped worrying about whether it would be tough enough! :)

Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 5:50 pm
by Betowess
That hull is going to look great on the water - puttering along. I've always liked looking at the little double ender teeny displacement trollers (from B.C., Canada) when they ended up in Bellingham's harbor - your HMD reminds of them. They have a very small midship wheelhouse, kind of like yours, only way smaller than the HMD. Going to be great to see yours on the water. Keep the pics coming Ross!

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:51 am
by chicagoross
Down to little things: Got 2 coats of epoxy on the pilothouse roof halves, figured that would be easier than painting it on over my head once the pieces are attached; added the trim around the cabin tops/sides, got it fileted and taped on, made a roof beam for the companionway hatch (mine comes all the way to bulkhead D as I want to be able to close and lock the cabin), etc.

As the hardener bottle pump sucked air, I was congradulating myself that I'd be able to finish the boat with the three gallons of epoxy I had left - opened the last Bateau box and found it held the extra 2 gallons of foam (that I ordered but didn't end up needing) rather than 3 more gallons of epoxy! 8O :doh: I have to check receipts, but I think that means I've now used (up) 27 gallons now, and need a few more... :( Oh well, ordered 3 more gallons.

The bad news is that this week, instead of finishing up the boat construction, I'll be sanding, sanding, sanding on the interior while waiting for the epoxy to arrive. :( I'd hoped to postpone that chore for another week...

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:59 pm
by chicagoross
Still suffering from epoxy withdrawals... :( Got the pilothouse roof spotwelded in place, also made the cabin hatch framing and have it spotwelded in place. I am now the proud owner of an empty, unfinished HMD18! :lol:
Image
Think I'll drill out the holes for the control cables under the gunnels, and make a small sole for the cabin area. When my epoxy arrives next week I can have one final orgy of fileting, taping, and glassing, then no choice but to sand... :(

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:39 am
by chicagoross
All the fileting and taping of the roof is finally done. Took a few days longer than expected, there is a lot of seams to filet and tape:
Image

Started fairing the outside, can't put it off any longer:
Image

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:07 am
by WobblyLegs
Nice work - I like the hatch surround. Does it stiffen up the roof where it is? Thinking of doing something similar for my motorwell deck hatches.

Keep it up.

Tim.

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:06 am
by jgroves
The boat looks great! Keep up the good work.

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:25 pm
by chicagoross
The framing around the hatch stiffened the roof considerably. Just 1x2s. In addition to the usual taping of the seams, I also glassed the forward cabin (forward of the windshield) with light cloth, wrapping over the seams again, so total of 3 layers of glass on the outside seams. I had visions of someone deciding to sit on the 1/4" cabin while the boat's tied at the dock... 8O and decided to play it safe. I've been kneeling on it now while I'm working on fairing the pilothouse roof, so seems strong enough at this point.

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:34 pm
by cedarock
Lookin good Chicago!

I can't remember, but somewhere I read that the seat height was a little high as planned. Did you go with the plans or lower yours anticipating mounting a swivel seat?

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:50 pm
by chicagoross
Not sure about the HM; the HMD seat boxes are at least 4" too high as shown to allow a seat and swivel without bonking your head. I cut mine down 4", I think DougN cut his down 4 1/2.

The standard swivel and boat seat from Cabelas or the like adds 3-4"; when you get your roof supports and beams in you can stack boxes to see and double check.

Uncle Ralph built the poster-girl HM; maybe he has better info!

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:38 am
by ericsil
Nice looking job, especially the hatch framing. Did you check the drip line off of the roof? I am having to add a small lip to my roof because the run off hits just inside the lower edge of the window. Keep it rolling.

Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:06 am
by chicagoross
The monthly bottom line: 6 months, 447 hours, 28 gallons of epoxy.

The pilothouse roof and fore-cabin have been faired; the pilothouse ourside has been smoothed and received its second coat of epoxy prior to fairing; cockpit has its second coat of epoxy, but inside the cabin and pilothouse is still only single coated. The portholes have been cut and framed. Still a ton of sanding away from painting, and its tiring and a pain in the neck and back doing all the sanding overhead in the cabins.

I kind of chuckle at all the recent discussions of safety gear and the evils of epoxy; when you're working at about 95 to 99 degrees and similar humidity, as I am, the work shorts and boatbuilding flipflops are the only safety gear you can stand wearing. Seriously, I wear gloves when doing epoxy; safety glasses when cutting or goggles when sanding. I can't wear the goggles for long as they fog up too quick, so often end up back with only the safety glasses if I'm wearing the dust mask. Since the tyvek suit is out of the question, shower off the dust and sweat and change shorts every few hours.

Ericsil, love seeing your boat in the water! Haven't given any thought to drip rails yet, but was thinking of something along that line just to give a little more substance to the 1/4" plywood around the edges. I've put pretty nice "armrests" at the bottom of the large windows going from frame to frame, which stiffened up the pilothouse walls nicely; and am working on something similar but smaller at the trailing edges of the pilothouse. The HMD has a foot more cabin (which I want for the shade and rain), but since I didn't build the sink and stove boxes, it is just 16" of 1/4" ply between the gunnels and roofline aft of the C frame, needs a little stiffening before it will withstand the wife, kids, and guests who will expect it to be something solid to hang on to when boarding. At least straight edges of the roofline will probably get a little trim to help stiffen them as well.

Guess the next interesting pics will be when I give up on the sanding and start painting and see how close to "fair" it really is! :doh: :D

Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:52 pm
by ericsil
I wish you the best. It is well known that nothing ruins a good fairing job more than that first coat of paint.

Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:47 pm
by cedarock
shower off the dust and sweat and change shorts every few hours
That is my technique as well! I rarely use a mask or glasses, even though I should. When my "imitation crocs" boat building shoes fill up with dust to the point that I can't take it any more, I quit and clean up. I haven't had the opportunity to try the overhead-in-the-cabin sanding yet. I am sure that I will have to pull out the mask and glasses for that. Can't wait! :lol:

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:22 am
by chicagoross
No more boatbuilding... :( at least on this HMD. I glassed the cabin sole which I had been neglecting for a while, and realized that was the last "boat" piece.

Now it's just the seemingly endless task of boat finishing and boat fitting. The cabin and pilothouse (outsides) are faired; the decks sanded; insides still need a smoothing sanding and inside the cabin still needs a second coat of epoxy before sanding.

As I laid the last boat piece and started thinking that was some kind of milestone, I started thinking what's left and laughed out loud! Backing plates for 5 cleats, 4 rod holders, steering column, gas filler and shifter still have to be cut, fitted, epoxied, etc. etc. etc...

Oh well, back to it!

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:42 pm
by topwater
Thats pretty impresive ross!
Only six monthes into the build 8O

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:07 pm
by ks8
Yeah... your boat is twice the surface area of mine... and it took me... well... I'm gonna shut up now... :oops:

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:40 pm
by chicagoross
:D KS8 - but yours is furniture grade! At least! Actually, now that I think about it, I don't have any furniture that nice...

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:06 pm
by colonialc19
What a great milestone!!! Can't wait to see her floatn' 8)



Daniel

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:11 pm
by cedarock
Congratulations Chicago! You are almost ready to float. Look forward to seeing some pics!

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:04 am
by peter-curacao
Keeps amazing me that something like this

Image

Become something beautiful like this

Image

Btw maybe a stupid question but Guam were is that located?

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:22 pm
by chicagoross
Thanks to all for the kind words and support during the mind numbing process of sanding!

Guam is a Pacific Island near the equator about 600 miles east of the Philippines. We are the big island (12 x 35 miles) in this area, US territory. Fantastic beaches, reefs, snorkeling and diving, and fishing. Not much else other than strategic value.

If I'm a quarter mile offshore, I'm in 2000' deep or greater, so don't have to go far to troll for marlin, mahi, wahoo, tuna. Gas is $4.77 currently and expected to be over $5.00 within the month. The HMD is intended to allow me to cruise and troll for a couple gallons a day, leaving all the gas guzzlers in the harbor trying to figure out how to fill their tanks; They'll chuckle when I launch with my 10 hp motor, but I think they'll understand fairly quickly!

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:33 pm
by peter-curacao
chicagoross wrote:Guam is a Pacific Island near the equator about 600 miles east of the Philippines. We are the big island (12 x 35 miles) in this area, US territory. Fantastic beaches, reefs, snorkeling and diving, and fishing. Not much else other than strategic value.
So we live under the same horrible conditions :lol: :lol: Island life, its a beach :lol:
Btw it could be smaller Curaçao 171.4 sq mi 8O

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:43 pm
by chicagoross
Yup. :D The big thing here is that although there's no wallyworld, we do have the world's largeest Kmart; and got a Home Depot last year.

The Kmart has one aisle of boat gear, 2 of fishing gear, and 2 of snorkeling gear including spears. It's open 24 hours and crowded! little different than in the states...

Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:49 pm
by peter-curacao
chicagoross wrote:Yup. :D The big thing here is that although there's no wallyworld, we do have the world's largeest Kmart; and got a Home Depot last year.

The Kmart has one aisle of boat gear, 2 of fishing gear, and 2 of snorkeling gear including spears. It's open 24 hours and crowded! little different than in the states...
8O Your kidding me right ? 8O
Any chance to put up some pic's of the surroundings of Guam?

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:32 pm
by chicagoross
Wow! Slow going and the boat doesn't look any different! Had guests for two weeks and not much work done (per day), but plodding along anyways...

Baking plates glued in for rod holders, cleats (drilled oversized and filled), fuel fill, all fitted and epoxy coated; framed the companionway hatch opening and also the gap between the seatboxes where a drop board will go; drilled the dash for steering, gauges, and switches, test fitted all and removed and epoxy coated; drilled and epoxy coated motorwell drains; sanded, sanded, sanded...

Seems like you get the boat "built" then there's a never-ending list of chores that need to be done before painting, and before fitting out...

Shopped for a trailer; the "sale price" for an 18' trailer (shipped from the states) is $2500 - ouch! DougN - is your boat on a trailer yet? Any tips or thoughts on how to get the bunks to fit a displacement hull?

Motor (9.9 4 stroke 25" Merc Bigfoot remote PTT) is supposed to arrive next week.

Back to work, still a lot of sanding to do before painting...

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:45 pm
by cedarock
Same here Chicago.....nothing interesting to report on my end. I like the parts of the build that show results. Now, I am just sanding and fairing, sanding and fairing! :)

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:26 am
by chicagoross
Yup, guess I need the positive visual feedback that I "accomplished" something. :D Glad I'm not the only one - I was worried that I'd come in from sanding and see a photo of your boat out cruising, Cedarock!

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:41 pm
by chicagoross
Drilled, filled, redrilled, epoxied, etc. for all deck hardware:
Image
Functional for my purposes. I was happy with this until I saw Larry's deck! :D Oh well, next boat, next budget...

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:10 pm
by Doug N
The boat's not on a trailer yet. I was planning on converting an older boat trailer, with rollers, to a bunk style. I have just checked it a few minutes ago and it won't work for me. Yesterday, out of curiousity, I checked on the local availability/cost of a trailer and came up with one at $4k. Ouch. Now that it looks like I'll have to go with a new one, I'll do some much more serious searching.
Doug

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:19 pm
by WobblyLegs
chicagoross wrote:I was happy with this until I saw Larry's deck
Yeah, he does that to us. Nasty habit. Someone ought to have words with him... ;)

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:33 pm
by chicagoross
Well, the entire boat inside and out has been sanded, 2nd epoxy coated, and smoothed for paint except for the cockpit floor, where I have to sand off a few blobs and drips, the undersides of the rubrails which also have a few drips remaining, and the inside of the motorwell. Holes have been cut and prepped for 5 cleats, 4 rodholders, the steering, gauges, and switches. I was all set to start painting this weekend, but hit a detour in the road.

My motor came in, and due to the power trim and tilt, it has a very long mounting bracket; I measured the motor and made a bolt hole template, and the legs of the bracket would have been about 2" below the hull bottom. (My motor is a Merc Pro-Kicker (bigfoot) but I think DougN bound that the Yamaha high thrust with power trim and tilt was also longer than the transom will allow).

After much sitting in the thinking chair (which is very well covered with epoxy by now), and consultation in the powerboats section, I finally faced the fact that to make it right I was going to have to raise the transom 2 inches. So instead of painting today I raised the transom. Now everything fits and all bolt holes will be doable, i.e. not going through the motorwell floor or cleats.

Still have to sand and glass the 2" extra transom, then hopefully start painting tomorrow. OK, back outside to grind those last few drips!

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:29 am
by chicagoross
Yay! Finally finished sanding, vaccuuming, and tack clothing; applied first coat of primer today.

Here was the monthly tally: 7 months, 503 hours, and 29 1/3 gallons of epoxy.

Bought a trailer yesterday, new but had been sitting out for two years with the galvanizing turning gray; $2000. This is Guam, everything gets shipped in by the pound, so no 1/2 price "last year's model" sales here. New price was $2800, they wanted $2300, so took about 2 weeks for them to think about it but got it a little lower. Still wondering how difficult it's going to be setting a displacement hull (rockered bottom, big skeg) on a trailer, and would appreciated any advice or experience from anyone who has done so - maybe a sailboat maker?

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:45 pm
by cedarock
Has to feel good to be done with the sanding! I think that E's method will be the way to go with your trailer! I can't think of any other way to create the bunks that will snug the hull. Looking forward to seeing some pics of her on the water!

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 1:27 am
by chicagoross
starting to look boaty...
Image

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 6:12 am
by Jaap
That is really start looking good!! When does she see water?

jaap

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 7:40 am
by RR
She looking sharp :!: :D

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:30 am
by Daddy
Great job Ross, what do you plan for windows?
Daddy

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:34 am
by MadRus
Great looking boat Ross. I like your color scheme so far too.

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:09 pm
by Spokaloo
Right on Rossman!

E

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 2:48 pm
by Betowess
WOW, Looks Terrific!!!

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 3:48 pm
by SP
Looking good!!!

Can't wait to hear how it performs on the water.

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:38 pm
by cedarock
Looking good Chicago! She looks snazzy with her portholes and hatch.

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:39 pm
by flatpicker
Awesome!! The paint scheme is killer

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:11 pm
by peter-curacao
I agree really nice paint job chicago ross really easy/quiet? on the eyes.

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:24 am
by cape man
Beautiful job Ross. What paint are you using (brand and colors)?

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:10 am
by TomW
Really like it CR. She is easy on the eyes. Great job!

Tom

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:49 pm
by chicagoross
Thanks to all for the kind comments!

Planned windshields are simply plexiglass through bolted into the insetted area idea courtesy of Wobblylegs; I may do the "vent" windows as well. Side and rear curtains will be patterned on paper and sewed up next trip to the Philippines by the guy that does my jeep and boat tops there.

Paint is simply Kilz oil-based exterior (2-3 coats) under Rustoleum Marine Topside paint, also oil-based (2 coats), rolled and tipped although I'm definitely not an expert. We still get a good selection of oi-based paints here (unless you go to HD) which seem to work better IMHO in this high-humidity, rains-every-day tropics. Definitely workboat finish and designed to be easy to repair/repaint rather than being perfect enough that it lasts forever. I've read some comments on the Rustoleum Marine being too soft, but as with everything else on Guam, you use what you can get. That's OK, we use Dutch Boy oil-based enamel on our boats in PI. Being Rustoleum, the colors are "white", "sand (tan)", and "red". :D Because this is a tropical boat, colors kept light to reduce heat absorption.

HMD Builder's Note: Heartbreak yesterday, haven't figured out recovery yet...Installed the steering, and even though I ordered a 15' cable, (as opposed to the 14' specified in the plans),, came out about 4" short. After thinking I was done drilling and epoxying, I redrilled new chase holes through the frame uppers as close to the inside of the curve as possible (first set were kinda down the middle), repped out the steering and redrilled it about 1" closer to the gunnel, as much as I can do and still cover the first holes with the bezel), reinstalled and now am 1" short. Need to go back to the Merc dealer and revisit my motor and see ow wide the tilt tube really is. May need to find another inch somehow, but whateve I have new holes to epoxy and touch-up with paint. Thank god it's "workboat finish"!

Trailer's sitting in the yard, haven't started setting it up to fit the boat yet but that's next. Most of the bits and pieces are installed, but haven't really started soldering and wiring yet.

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:55 pm
by chicagoross
BTW the non-skid came out great. I used the non-skid sold here, but did it the old fasioned way: Paint first coat on the non-skid areas, sprinkle the wet coat with the nonskid using a salt shaker borrowed from the kitchen, then recoat the next day. The non-skid seems just right to me.

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:58 pm
by Daddy
The steering cable has caused many a problem. Dont know why it is difficult but even pro builders that I know have had to wrestle with on too long or worse, too short.
Daddy

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:12 pm
by cedarock
Sorry to hear about the cable problems! I know that it is frustrating when you get this close. I seem to run into some kind of challenge daily! Hopefully, you can find a easy solution. I will be crossing that bridge soon and like you, I ordered a little long but cut my holes to the outside.

Good luck!

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:07 am
by chicagoross
Yeah, it's frustrating at this point. My wife's ready to go fishing and cruising, and I'm ready to take a break!

Didn't get a chance to go re-examine the motor in the slim hopes that it might fit now, so decided to start adjusting and measuring the trailer today.

Between our business expansion and two kids starting kindergarten this week, I haven't had much chance to play with it; had hoped it would be in the water by now for this very reason! Oh well, back to it!

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:20 pm
by stevesmith81
Can't wait to see it in the water especially in your tropical paradise setting.

Please take lots of pictures on the maiden voyage and post them.

If I am not mistaken you will be the first builder to splash the HMD.

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:33 pm
by peter-curacao
chicagoross wrote: but as with everything else on Guam, you use what you can get.
I know exactly what you are saying :x :P
chicagoross wrote: Planned windshields are simply plexiglass
If you can get it there isn't it better to use Lexan instead of plexiglass? I always understoot it was more UV and scratch resistant , or amI wrong now :doh:

Peter

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:31 am
by chicagoross
Peter, I've heard the Lexan is more UV resistant and stronger, but the Plexiglas is more resistant to scratching (thinking about salt crystals?). I've only noticed them at Home Depot, haven't checked for window makers yet; the plexi can be had in 1/4", whereas the Lexan only sold there in 1/10" thlickness; that seems pretty thin to me. Haven't bought yet, so all opinions and experience welcome!

Visited the motor today and found that all my redrilling of chase holes for the steering was successful in getting it to where it needs to be - no need to order another at this point. :D Would have been a bitch to make all those new holes to epoxy and paint, and still not be able to use the one I had!

The other good news is that as I started playing with the trailer (it is the odyssy model made by Carnai) is that it is a keel-roller/bunk combo, all mounted on pivoting cross members. Of course I have no actual documentation on how this is supposed to work, but it appears the keel roller sinks as weight is applied, until the bunks rotate up high enough to contact the hull and stop the rotation. In otherwords, looks to be self adjusting. My first impressions as I'm adjusting everything is that it will adjust to fit the HMD without serious modifications! Wish me luck!

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:29 am
by TomW
CR get Lexan if you can. It comes in all sizes and types. You want XL I think is the designation. It has the UV protection and is more scratch resistant at least the equal of plexi. I will look it up if I remember tommorrow. Heading to bed now. Try glass shops also.

Tom

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:54 am
by Daddy
Ross, you might want to look at using the stuff they use to install car windows rather than bolts. It comes in 15 foot rolls, 3/16 dia. and larger, but 3/16 did the job for me. I put it around the plexi windows near the edge, pushed them snugly into the openings and they are there for good. I painted the lip the windows sit on black and the stuff is black too so looks pretty good. The stuff stays flexible so expansion and contraction are not a problem. I used it in all the windows in my boat Great stuff, one brand is made by 3M and there are others too. Don't know if you can tell how I did it by looking at my boat or not wish I had taken pictures of installation
Daddy,

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 3:51 pm
by Rick
In my other life I coach a high school competition robotics team. The biggest difference we see between polycarbonate sheet (Lexan) and acrylic (Plexiglass) is that polycarbonate doesn't shatter and acrylic does. Of course, we don't care about scratches, just strength. If you think things are going to slam hard into the windows (like a dinghy in a gale smashing into the window) you would definitely prefer the Lexan. If it's a fair-weather boat, I doubt it matters much.

Unless you make a serious mistake watching the weather, I'm guessing pretty much all 18-foot motorboats are fair-weather boats...

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:44 pm
by chicagoross
thanks, guys, guess I'll check out glass and autoglass places today. Daddy, I assume you're talking about some kind of sticky "putty"?

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:58 pm
by peter-curacao
chicagoross wrote:thanks, guys, guess I'll check out glass and autoglass places today. Daddy, I assume you're talking about some kind of sticky "putty"?
Chicago I think, not sure, Daddy means the rubber around car windows. they put that around the window, after that one man pushing the window in place, while an other one at the other side of the window pull a rope what's also around the rubber to pop it into its place.
Again I'm not sure tough

Peter

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:18 pm
by chicagoross
I've "roped in" windows on old pickup trucks and jeeps before, (which is what Cedarock was doing), and on newer jeeps the windshield was "glued" in with some sort of black sticky stuff. I thought that was what Daddy was talking about. Anyhow, I guess I'll try to find the local autoglass place and see what (if any) island options I have! :D You know island boats take a little more creativity, compromise, substitution, fabrication, mail-order, and imagination, Peter! At least I didn't have to build trailers from scratch like in PI! Looks like you got a good start on that!

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:28 pm
by peter-curacao
Okay nothing new on the horizon for you as I read :P it's because he wrote this - it comes in 15 foot rolls- lets see what he means :P
Indeed island life take a little more creativity, compromise, substitution, fabrication, mail-order, imagination and sometimes just pure luck I think I had that today :wink:

Peter

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:28 pm
by Daddy
Ross, it is a black ribbon sealer. Jere is a description of a product made by Transtar
Description:

The auto glass replacement tapes are sticky “ribbon typeâ€

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:04 pm
by cedarock
Chicago, I am glad that you got the cable stuff figured out! I was not that lucky. I found my lexan at a local place that sells plastic sheets of all kinds, but I think the plexiglass from the depot would work fine!

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:57 pm
by TomW
Chicago it is GE Lexan XL 10 that I was thinking of. Forgat to look it up earlier.

Tom

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:25 am
by chicagoross
Yeah, Daddy, the butyl tape! That's what I waqs thinking about. Works OK on the lexan (as opposed to glass?)?

Called all the window, glass, and autoglass companies on island today asking for Lexan. "What?" "You know, like plastic windows.." "Sorry". No luck. Talked to the local boat building company (2 islands removed on Saipan), they have auto glass cut to match a cardboard template, then lay it on another sheet of glass and make frames for it with a couple of layers of narrow glass tape, then screw it in place. Looks nice, but violates to "top heavy" rules for my boat (something that is not much of a copncern here, you should see the XXXawful "pilothouses" that they put on boats here with no concern for weight or windage...)

That is leaving the thin (1/10") lexan 10 available at Home Depot, the 1/4" acrylic (no UV protection) or open air as local options here unless I want to go autoglass. Probably worry about it later...

Got my scuppers in from Japan, finally, but they charged me like $40 each (oh well, I asked for them, the guy went through a lot of trouble to get them...) will post a pic later to show you what I mean - I really like them and they're perfect for any boat where you really want to be able to seal up a scupper - those that are self bailing at rest only, or those where you may have a lot of fish seight to bring on board! (look on the positive side!) Had to buy a 2 1/4" hole saw for them,, seems to be the one size I was missing - 2, 2 1/8, 2 1/2, 3...)

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:01 am
by chicagoross
Well, while others have been taking giant leaps and bounds splashing boats, I've been lucky to take a few "baby steps" in the past few weeks. Installing the Japanese scuppers:
Image
after that, baby steps to the trailer, baby steps to the water....

I've heard a lot of remarks about the "good enough" finish. My workboat diddn't even get to that point before I realized it would be years to launch to get there. Fortunately I had time to work on the boat before I got to the finishing part, and feel pretty comfortable that the boat is "built" right. Pretty finishes are going to have to wait for a different work period. Need to get this on the trailer and get my garage back! I think the Mercury dealer is starting to wonder about the guy that paid cash for a new motor, and then left it sitting there at the dealer! :doh: :D

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:44 am
by Daddy
Ross, I might want to replace my scuppers, the ones I have keep my after cockpit awash when underway, no big deal but makes uninitiated passengers alarmed as in "Good God, were taking on water back here".
What brand name do I ask for?
Daddy

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:32 am
by gk108
Now I see why you wanted those scuppers. 8)

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:42 am
by jgroves
Looking good! Scuppers that work are always nice :lol: Keep up the good work!

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:33 pm
by Dougster
Yeah, I like those scuppers too. Sounds like you had trouble getting them though. They do seem very secure. You're moving along well compared to me!

On the slow boat to Fair Town Dougster

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:35 pm
by cedarock
Chicago, I like those scuppers. You will be dropping her in soon and I can't wait to see some pics!

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:46 am
by chicagoross
My mercury dealer, who buys boats from "Marine-6" (Yamaha-clone pangas made in Japan) ordered them special for me from the boat manufacturer. Similar scuppers are found on Yamaha branded boats from Japan. I know those pangas are sold at some dealers in the states, too. My dealer likes them and is going to order a bunch for use on his own (locally molded) boats as well.

That said, I'm hoping to get back to PI for a visit or vacation before the year is over, and I know a boat manufacturer in Mariveles that has someone handcrafting a clone of this scupper out of SS for use in their boats which are manufactured for the Japanese market. They also do a beautiful job on Boston Whaler type hardware knockoffs. Unfortunately their old web-site is no longer on the internet, so I'll have to make a trip there in person to get anymore details.

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:04 pm
by saltponder
Chicago,
What is the O.D. of those scuppers? What's the "one way" mechanism for water drainage? Tnx.
Gil

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:10 pm
by chicagoross
The id is 2"; od is over 2 1/4", I had to use a 2 1/2" hole saw, which worked well. There is no mechanism, they are open until you screw in the stopper, from the inside of the boat, which is very heavy duty and has a larger than 1/4" rubber gasket. Very simple, and either completely open or completely closed (when you've hauled the second marlin on board and the scupper would have been submerged :) .

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:12 am
by saltponder
Ross,
Tnx. Those look very practical in operation and size. I never trusted the flap or the ball types. I had oversized corks that plugged the cockpit side of my last rig's scuppers. I never got a good night's sleep when I left my 1969 Sinkcraft in the water overnight; never met a set of scuppers or auto bilge pump I could trust.
Gil

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:02 am
by chicagoross
Finally a few more babysteps yesterday and today - none of them actually involving boat building!

I ripped down the worn-out and too-low "boat house" (tent) and replaced it with a new one, 12' wide instead of 10, and 10 foot tall to fit the HMD on trailer easily.

Today I rewired the trailer, got all the lights working, got it safety inspected, titled and registered. Then I successfully navigated the governmental powers-that-be and got the boat titled and registered!

They kept a full photo-documentary of its build, kept all my original receipts (gave me back copies), kept my original work log (gave me back a copy), and sent me off to find a notary so I could make an affadavit that I built it myself at home. Finally issued me a registration and HIN. Told me to get it engraved on a metal plate and screw it on the transom.

Apparently it's rare, but there are other home-built boats on Guam. I've only seen one other. Anyhow, very pleased with myself for getting through the government end of things! Lift onto the trailer this weekend! :D

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:29 am
by Gramps
Way to go! That has to be a great feeling.

Is it normal for the DMV to keep originals?

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:44 am
by peter-curacao
Jeez Chicago I never thought about that as for today I'm starting to save my receipts, I don't think they are that they are that difficult over here (Trailers don't need to be safety inspected, titled and registered) but just in case
Thank's for sharing that with us

Peter

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:51 am
by jgroves
chicagoross,
What a relief getting all the gov stuff done. Kinda wild they kept the originals? So long as they gave you what you need it's all good. Here in NC there are lots of builders... the state has adopted a very relaxed registration process. I had to get a paragraph that I signed off on notarized... that was about it. I guess I'm just another drop in the bucket for them :D Oh yeah, and I had to pay (that's the important part :lol: ).

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:44 pm
by chicagoross
Yeah, it's a local thing, government employees always seem to want originals. Course they keep the originals and give you a carbon paper copy of a 40 year old form, then next year they want another copy since they misfiled the originals... Lots of stuff still hardcopy here, not on computer. It was a relief, when you deal with the beurocrats here you never know if you're finished until you have all your papers in hand. Always one more fee and one more place to go...Importing our cars here and converting them to Guam license plates was about a 10 step process, with trips to various government agencies, safety inspections, and insurance all over the island. Probably drove about 100 miles to do it, and the island's only 30 miles long! :D Should mention I was extra lucky yesterday as the copier at the Police Department was functional. Sometimes you have to add extra trips to the copy store on your own dime!

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:50 pm
by stevesmith81
we need more pictures!!!

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:53 pm
by TomW
Shush Jeremy we don't want NC to change that simple form if they hear about how other states do it. :lol:

Tom

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:21 pm
by peter-curacao
Chicago over here the bureaucrats getting really dripping wet to put or glue stamps on every official paper they can lay their hands on, and yes you guessed right every stamp will cost you money :? I supose it's the same over there :?:

Peter

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:15 am
by chicagoross
pretty much, but we're still (almost) part of the US so only tax every little thing and only rubber stamps, not the pretty ones I see in Mexico and PI. :D

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:30 am
by jgroves
TomW wrote:Shush Jeremy we don't want NC to change that simple form if they hear about how other states do it. :lol:

Tom
:lol: :lol: Good call :lol:

Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:15 am
by chicagoross
New view: Gave my wife the carport back last night! Seemed weird to see a car parked there this morning. :D Another baby step completed. Gonna have to think of something new to build in the garage pretty soon, :D Seemed to hot today to go out and finish the wiring, still recovering from a full day of working outside yesterday at 99 degrees.

I've soaked the bunks and strapped the boat down til they bent to the hull shape, we'll see if that works when they dry out. Before I did that,. only about 3-4 feet of the bunks was actually touching the round-bottomed hull - kind of like a rocking chair!

Image

Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:18 am
by cape man
She looks REALLY sweet in her new home. Great idea on the bunks. Hope it works well for you. Rocking on the trailer...not good.

Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 12:45 pm
by Spokaloo
Ross, if it doesn't set, build yourself a steam box setup. Wet wood isn't necessarily gaining flexibility. Heat is what softens the lingin and allows the flexibility in the wood. A boiling kettle and some heavy plastic (or a cheap wood box) will typically do the trick. Leave it in for an hour on a good steam, you should have 5-10 minutes of flexibility to work with.

E

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:34 pm
by Betowess
The boat looks really nice from the side view! I sure like your scuppers too.

Wondering if a couple of eye hooks and two "Come-a-longs" could get your desired bend to the wood, if you used some alternate bunk material (maybe within a boiling hot bath). Just a wild idea.

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:50 pm
by tech_support
You can use the dimensions of the stringers from the plans to draw out the curve of the hull onto bunks - then cut them to fit the shape of the hull..... like a glove :)

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:34 pm
by Larry B
Thats a nice looking boat. have to congratulate you on your fast build. Aprox. 8 months.

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 6:24 pm
by chicagoross
Shine - no stringers on the HMD! It's like building a big D4, just frames. Mine has "stringers" of 3/8" ply taped between all the frames to seperate compartments for storage and foam, and to provide (in my mind at least) extra rigidity of hull and sole, but all were fitted in place and cut by Mk. 1 eyeball, not plans. The trailer bunks are sitting under my "stringers", which run from the motorwell side walls forward to the berth uprights, in the space where no longitudinal components were required.

The bending experiment seems to have worked well after a few days of drying out - I removed all the straps and the bunks have held their curve. Probably because living in Guam is about the same as living in a steambath, just with more UV exposure... :)

As always, thanks to all for the kind words and suggestions. I thought my progress was pretty good up to the painting point, then everything slowed to a crawl and time became a rare commodity in my life. Watching Cedarock launch while I still wasn't even on a trailer was hard... :(

Final adjustments today and then a little more electrical and then off to hang the motor!

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:37 pm
by cedarock
Watching Cedarock launch while I still wasn't even on a trailer was hard...
I have been a bad husband for the last year and I know it. :) Boat is looking great!

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:44 pm
by cape man
I have been a bad husband for the last year and I know it. Boat is looking great!
There's the only bad thing about this project...feels almost like cheating. My wife seems to be okay so far, and actually full of encouragement, but man have I neglected the usual routine and duties. I think she'll forgive me when we launch.

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:29 pm
by chicagoross
:) Yeah, gotta launch soon. This one was built to the wife and kid's requirements: Cabin, berths, portapotti, shade, and slow - no pounding! I think the crew will be happy soon. My motor's been here for a month and a half, but they never shipped the controller; supposed to come today. Maybe make the crew happy this weekend!

Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:47 am
by chicagoross
Frustrated! My motors been here since the first week of July. Like I said, they forgot to ship the included controller with it. Only took a month or so of checking records for them to admit that they made a mistake. So wait, wait, wait for the controller. It shows up yesterday and turns out it has the wrong wiring harness on it. So Now they're sorry for the delay and are fed-exing (the WORST way to get anything to Guam) overnight, which means it may get here Saturday or Monday (in a week). The joys of island life!

The boat is wired and ready to go on the trailer whenever Mercury gets their act together! There sure were a lot of trips to the hardware sotre the past few weeks for yet another wierd sized SS nut or bolt...

I was cutting the cushions today, still got to get some sunbrella fabric so my wife can cover them. Realized I have 6 wood-and-epoxy chores to do before the boat is finished: (none of which will delay the launch) Epoxy and paint the controller board (after the controller comes so I know where the holes go...), drop boards, berth filler boards, companionway bi-fold doors (thanks for raising the bar, Uncle Ralph and Cedarock!), hide the fuel tank filler tube, and the cabin-top grab rails.

Mayber the next boat should just be a simple, open skiff - the cabin sure adds a lot of work! Naah, bring on the MM21 Evan!

Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:39 pm
by cedarock
Sorry about the control challenges and I know how you are itching to get her on the water!

On the positive side, it does give you time to work on the little stuff. Looking forward to see the launch!

Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:21 pm
by chicagoross
These builds actually never end! :D Finally got the handrails on the cabin tops:
Image
10 yards of sunbrella material (ouch) and a $50 giant industrial-sized spool of the sunbrella thread (double ouch) and my wife covered all the cushions I had cut, for the cabin, berth fillers, and the three coolers; took her about 3 hours total. Apparently sewing takes less pondering than watching epoxy dry! Anyhow it's great to have a wife that's talented as well as beautiful. Only one color of fabric available on Guam, so the cushions are blue. Don't think I'd posted a real picture of the cockpit layout, changed and simplified from the plans. Large fishbox cooler in the rear, 2 beer coolers forward (it's a displacement boat, so while it may take less fuel to get from point A to point B, it also is likely to take more beer), no raised kitchen boxes, so lots of room to walk around and play with the fish. All three coolers double as cockpit seating:
Image
Still a lot of little things to do, but still taking babysteps. Still waiting for the MM21 plans. :D

BTW, it will be hopeless to ever try to get this boat clean. I may have to paint the interior mudbrown. My 4 and 5 year old have adopted the boat as their playhouse; it serves as treehouse, pirate ship, spaceship, climbing mountain, and Power Rangers HQ. I do know that if you build one of these for your yard, you apparently no longer need any swingsets, playhouses, or other kid gear there!

Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:57 pm
by cape man
Nice to have a wife that sews. Cushions add a lot.
(it's a displacement boat, so while it may take less fuel to get from point A to point B, it also is likely to take more beer)
My kind of math :lol: :lol:

Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:04 pm
by gk108
That makes sense. Now I know why Broomside has included 3 wine cellars in his TW28. 8)

Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:01 pm
by cedarock
Chicago, I like the cooler cushions! That is exactly what I need to do to provide some addition seating.

Rails look great!

Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:19 pm
by chicagoross
Thanks, Cedarock. I'm now making very slow progress towards the bifold doors like you and Uncle Ralph did to raise the bar. Working on the lower drop board right now, get that first and then fit the doors as step 2. Very slow process as you fit pieces, glue them, then wait for the epoxy to cure before the next step. I know, the whole boat is built that way, but seems slower when it's one little piece that you're working on!

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:50 pm
by stevesmith81
I believe you have purchased the mm21 plans. Wanted to get your feedback on how much more capable of a cruiser this boat will be then you HMD.

Also, please post some more pictures of your having fun with your HMD

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:49 pm
by chicagoross
Steve, I read the MM21 plans in detail. It should be just what we were asking for. I would expect it to be just as capable and seaworthy as the HMD, multiplied by the size factor - kind of like comparing a P19 to a P21 or similar. There is a lot more room in the MM21, more length, basically more everything, but still in an easy-tow package. Additionally, the cabin and pilothouse can be closed, unlike the HMD, making a better cold or heavy weather package.

My concerns after studying the plans (and building the HMD): 1.) It's a much bigger boat, using more ply, a lot more glass, full bulkhead and door aft end of pilothouse, and yet calls for the same amount of epoxy. Don't believe that! 2.) You need a much larger building space - the boat's larger in all directions, plus the rounded stern is going to require a lot more room to try to swing panels in; they recommend that you start fastening the panels at the stern, which would require a 40 or 50 foot wide building area :doh: :help: . As pretty as the round stern is, a conventional stern would allow building in a more confined work area. 3.) more complicated building method, recommending a basket mold along with the extra framing material and flip that this would require. (4.) The "sit-on-top" motor cover is not realistic IMHO. It must require a specific 6hp motor to fit; the "real" transom is only 7" tall (by memory - at any rate much less than the 11" of the HMD that I had to raise to 13" to fit a PTT 10hp motor). Also, although they call for a 6 or 8 hp motor, I wouldn't want less than the 10 that I have on the HMD, not to go faster but to run at lower RPM (and noise). My guess is that to fit my 9.9 Mercury Bigfoot Pro-Kicker in there, the motor top will probably be at the gunnel level, similar to the HMD; not a problem, just don't believe I'll be getting a seat over it.

Beautiful set of plans, though, wish I had the money (and space) to start building it now!

Cruising the HMD is on hold right now, waiting for the 10' winter swells to subside - March is when it usually gets really nice for the summer here!

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:42 pm
by stevesmith81
Thanks for the quick response. I don't care much about the actual look of the boat, There was a guy up in Minnesota that built the MT24 and I went to look at it. Super large boat, he had a huge 3 axle trailer to haul it, thats why I wanted Evan to design something larger than the HMD but not a large as the MT24. Sounds like he hit the mark.

Somehow I thought your seasons where opposite ours. 10' swells is not something I would want to go out in no matter how large the boat/ship.

I have never had anything except a 16' fishing boat so am always looking for pictures to get an idea of size with people doing stuff.

Thanks

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:19 pm
by chicagoross
We're still in the northern hemisphere (barely) :D gets all the way down to about 75 degrees at night 8O
Image

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:32 pm
by stevesmith81
Thanks for the pic. Pls remember I live in Minnesota last week we came out of 23 straight days of below zero farenheit weather.

Don't want to be to personal but what do you do for a living. I may want to move;-)

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:14 pm
by Spokaloo
Guam, where the military retires!

10 foot swells aren't too bad to deal with, so long as the period between the swells is long enough. 15 seconds or more apart, its like a very lazy rollercoaster. Its when they are tight that its a problem.

E

Re: Guam HMD18

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:31 am
by chicagoross
Well, I guess it's been about 9 months since launching back in September, so I thought I'd update with a little performance data and likes and dislikes!

I've been lucky to get the boat out about once a month; I find it's easier to build the boat, which only takes a few spare hours a day, than to find a day without must-do chores, with the whole family feeling good, with at least semi-decent weather (a must for the wife and kids). Pretty said considering we live on a tropical island! :(

Performance: As hoped, I solved the gas consumption problem. With the Mercury 9.9 bigfoot, I usually cruise at about 4000 RPM which is good for about 6.1 - 6.4 mph. 3500 gives about 5.5 mph, and WOT at about 5600 takes you all the way up to a screaming 7.0 - 7.3 mph. I hadn't tried it for a long time, but yesterday was out chasing birds :D . So, now that the engine's broken in, 6 hours at avg 6.2 mph burned 2.7 gallons, or 13.8 mpg. :D I think I now burn more gas hauling the boat 10 miles to the ramp and back than I do going out fishing for the day.

The boat handles chop and swells to my satisfaction; no complaints. I now have about 12 gallons of water stored forward in the cabin (I did not install a water tank per plan, but found that the ballast needed to be further forward anyway)., maybe that's to balance the big anchor and chain and the 20-30# ice that's normally in the cockpit seat/coolers. Plus a few beers. Anyway, full tanks and a couple of crew really aren't enough for this boat, it definitely wants a bit more ballast. It's easier to find something to add weight than trying to figure out what (or who) to leave behind. And although I left out the sink, stove, and water tank, I did use double (30 gallons) the BOM listed epoxy amount, so without weighing the boat I can guess it's not on the light side.

Although I can no longer drive around squalls, the pilothouse and cabin for the wife and kids means it's no big deal waiting while they pass. :D

So far, so good. Here's what's not so good about this design: While it runs great at 6 mph, steerage speed seems to be very close to that! Certainly under 2-3 mph you completely lose steerage. :help: Docking, getting it on the trailer, is a bitch. I've never had a displacement hull before, or a boat with a big skeg like the HMD. But it definitely doesn't handle at the dock like any other boat I've ever driven. The prop is hanging well below the bottom of the skeg with the 25" extra long shaft; so I'm not blowing the prop wash along the skeg in reverse; the skeg just won't let you push the boat sideways at all when you're at slow sppeds. Plan it perfectly the first time, you don't get much second chance to correct when you're closing on the dock or trailer!

If Anyone's familiar with this type of hull, I'd love to hear opinions on maybe shaving an inch or two off the skeg to maybe give the boat better dockside manners, without losing seaworthiness. :doh:

Anyhow, that's the report after about 9 months experience driving this boat!

Re: Guam HMD18

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:49 am
by cape man
The only displacement hulls I have experience with were large (100' plus) tour boats down in Everglades National Park and they were the same...very sluggish steering at low speeds. Required a LOT of power to turn them at the dock, and if you missed by too much it was all over. The captain was nicknamed "Captain Crunch" as he was skilled at using the dock, the bumpers, and lines to put them in their berths. Will be interested to see others' response here who have experience with smaller boats like yours, but my first thought is that your 9.9hp is great for fuel efficiency at cruising speeds, but doesn't have enough thrust to make her turn well at low speeds. You may be able to get some improvement with a prop with more pitch.

Your fuel consumption at cruising is fantastic! Send some pics of her catching some fish!

Re: Guam HMD18

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:57 am
by gk108
Those numbers look good. I would imagine that the size of the skeg is necessary to keep your boat pointed where you want it when you are in a quartering sea. Without that, the boat would try to broach on every 2' wave. Have you thought about the possibility of adding an aluminum plate to the leg of the motor to give it more "rudder" area? I've seen it done somewhere, but can't recall where. I almost want to say that someone sells something like that designed to mount vertically above the cavitation plate. Anyway, it goes back to the idea that you really need more control, so more control surface might be the answer. 8)

Re: Guam HMD18

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:30 am
by Daddy
Maybe hang a trolling motor off the gunwhale and use that to pull or push you into the dock? :D I have a hard time with my GT22 at low speeds mostly because of windage when docking. :(
Daddy

Re: Guam HMD18

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:35 pm
by Spokaloo
The HMD probably moves like any other displacement vessel with a skeg. It won't operate at the dock like your old Pangas or dories under power, so maybe move it the way they move big ships.

I typically come in slow, under idle or no power at all. Directional corrections are always at or near full steering lock. Steer into the desired direction, click the motor into gear, then back to neutral. For each correction, go through the same process and dock at about 1/2 the speed you are used to.

Give it a whirl. I had to re-learn what I thought I knew about docking with Cloud Cap, as she has a massive skeg. Now that I know how she likes to be moved, people comment constantly about how it always goes in like its parallel parked.

E

Re: Guam HMD18

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:52 pm
by chicagoross
move it the way they move big ships
That's what I was afraid of, tugboats and bowthrusters.... :( Spok, I used to come in slow, bump in and out of gear like you described; that's what I was used to, you can basically make the boat go sideways if you take your time, but that doesn't seem to work here. I'm still hoping that there's just a bit of technique for me to learn, like you did with the Nina.
Required a LOT of power to turn them at the dock, and if you missed by too much it was all over
This is what I'm talking about, there is no movement at all unless you goose the gas. Slow only works straight forward or back, but doesn't turn it at all! BTW, the motor is the bigfoot (merc's high-thrust with the big prop)

Anyhow, thanks all for the tips and comments, any other ideas (before I become Captain Crunch) are welcome! :D

Re: Guam HMD18

Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:40 pm
by chicagoross
Time for an annual update! The Guam HMD is still in regular (although not as often as I'd like) use and no design or construction related issues have appeared.

I still use about 3 gallons of gas for a day's cruising at 6 to 6.5 mph. Very slow, very cheap. The motor's well broken in after a year and a half's use, and that 3 gallons typically represents about 8 hrs of cruising at 4000 RPM and 6.2 mph avg.

I'm really happy with my cheap "workboat finish" paint decision to use Rustoleum Marine paints - after about 2 years in the tropical elements and saltwater use, the paint still looks good after you sponge the dirt off. I did paint white on the berths in the cabin, and the blue sunbrella cushions that sit on it have "yellowed" the paint - should have used "sand". I think that if I were repainting (which fortunately seems years off still) that I would use "sand" on all interior surfaces, as it doesn't glare like white and doesmn't show the dirt. Save the white for cabin tops and topsides.

Load capacity is truly amazing for an 18' boat; this weekend we had 5 adults, 2 kids, plus 12 gallons gas, 20 gallons water, 50 pounds ice, 3 coolers, 2 anchor rigs and fish gear - the usual stuff, just added more people and didn't try to lighten the load. The scuppers were still comfortably above the water line even with 7 people.

Hope this info is of use to anyone that may be contemplating this design!

Re: Guam HMD18

Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:16 pm
by cape man
Wow! That's a great post and makes me want to build one. So glad you are still happy with her! That's one heck of a load for a relatively small boat. Only advice is to get her out more :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Guam HMD18

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:44 pm
by blueflood
Hi

Since there does not seem to be too many builders of HMD18 out there...I am hoping your can help. The Lamination Schedule is not 100% clear to me. I see where the heavier biaxial fabric goes to 6 inches above the chines but is that to imply that above that on the sides, there is no fibreglass cloth ? I would think 6oz minimum on all outside surfaces ?..

Marc

Re: Guam HMD18

Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:23 am
by chicagoross
Glass only to 6" above chines, just epoxy coating above that. On Mine, i put a layer of 6 oz woven on the sides, wrapping from the chine all the wsay to the gunnel. Also 6 oz glass on the soles, decks, and cabin sides/top (but not on the pilothouse roof). I use 6 oz glass all around the motor well (I'm always dropping buckets in there plus whatever non=producing lure I just removed. I don't regret the extra glass.

Weight wise it doesn't matter; I've had 7 people and a day's gear on board and the scuppers were still above water level, this boat really has a ton of capacity.

On the negative side, though, I did use 30 gallons of epoxy on a "15 gallon" boat... :oops: