Boat Builder Central - Builder Forums

Posted: **Mon Oct 13, 2008 5:28 pm**

Hi Everyone

I've posted a few questions in the power boat forums, but I suppose it's time to start my own build thread. Partly to let others see what I'm doing and mostly because I'll be needing a lot of

I got my plans 2 weeks ago and by day 3 had all my marine ply (BS 1088) and epoxy resin, biax tape and cloth and filler.
Jumped straight into drawing the plans out. I don't have a nice big flat table to draw on so I had to draw on the floor. Well after 3 days of drawing my knees started screaming as soon as they saw ply wood sheets

Cut most of my parts out using a circular saw, only used a jigsaw for small cuts as me, a jigsaw and straight lines are not friends.

On Saturday I turned my lounge floor into a butt block laminating area as it's the only area bigger enough with a flat floor to handle the big sheets (My wife was very impressed)

Yesterday I built a basic jig on wheels with the intention of building the normal stich and glue way (hull right way up). Once I was finished it was time to start stiching the bottom panels.
After 2 hours of fighting with the panels, trying to get them to bend and still keep the gaps between them I finally got them together.
And then I looked at the aft section of the bottom

I haven't got a clue how some of the guys manage to build such nice boats using this method

So after an hour of sulking and head scratching I cut all the tie wraps out and went to bed.

This afternoon I redesigned my jig into a not so simple jig and will be building the boat using the traditional jig method (hull upside down).
Transom is mounted (and yes it's at the right angle), I quickly test fitted all the bulkheads and it looks right this time.

Tomorrow I'll fit all the bulkheads and stringers, make sure everything lines up properly and then start fitting the panels.

I'll start posting some pics tomorrow once I have a few that are interesting

There's a boat somewhere in that pile of ply wood.
Shannon

Posted: **Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:27 pm**

I didn't know the PH16 was built right side up. My LB22 is built upside down, and yeah, getting the panels to take the curves was a major trial for me. It took a lot of patience and several weeks. All I can advise is make sure the stations are just right: spacing, parallel, perpendicular; I mean right on. Then take your time coaxing the panels. Beware screws and tight zip ties. Fool with it and then walk away and think. When it's right, sleep on it and look at it fresh with a critical eye. I wish I could have dragged mine out of the shop to see it at a good enough distance to get perspective. Your eye is good and will see even small asymmetries. I'm glad to see you've started a thread. Post some pics soon.

Remembers fighting those dang panels Dougster

Posted: **Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:37 pm**

Hi Dougster

The PH16 plans give you both building options, I thought that would be the easier quicker way - NOT

Thanks for the advice, my father always used to tell me to sleep on it and until recently I never really listened, but a project of this size definately teaches you to do this sort of thing and I'm sure I will have many of these nights

My building space is very limited, I only have a single garage, so I put up a temp carport in front of the garage and built my jig on wheels so that I can move it in and out of the garage. It's going to take me a little while each time to level it, but I need the working space.

I'll get some pics up as soon as I can

Shannon

Posted: **Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:58 pm**

Like Dougster said - no hurry on the panels! I stitched them all on loosely (1 1/2" gaps all around) and left them like that overnight. I think it gives the panels a little time to adjust to their new shapes. Then the next day, go around the boat tightening a little at a time - 1/4" or so. Maybe this is being obsessive, but before when I tightened too much I ended up having to cut and re-do ties; done the 1/4" at a time, for me at least, everyting lined up perfectly when we finally got down to almost no gaps! Have fun, that's my favorite part of the project, seeing the hull shape for the first time!

Posted: **Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:22 am**

Chicagoross I think that was my problem the first time, I made my gaps too tight to start with, by the time I got to the bow the two panels were locking together so badly I couldn't wedge anything between them.
I'll use your method of just a little at a time, thanks

Posted: **Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:54 pm**

OK let's see if I can get this picture thing right

First one of the large panels lying in my lounge waiting for the butt blocks to dry

Bulkheads fitted to the building jig

Stringers test fitted

Another angle

For people that have built this boat you might notice that my butt blocks for the inner stringer do not coincide with the bulkhead. I would like to say that I planned it that way, but it was actually a plan reading mistake

luckily I picked it up before I cut the second part of the stringers so just had to adjust the size of the second part. I quite liked the idea that it meant that I didn't have to re-cut my stringer slots in that bulkhead

Posted: **Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:00 pm**

My wife would kill me

Looks great! Hope you live to see it finished

Posted: **Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:03 pm**

The stringers and bulkheads all fitted together really nicely (I actually got it straight

), just a little bit of sanding to take out one or two little cutting errors and the fit will be perfect.

BUT, I couldn't resist the temptation to lay the hull panels on the jig just to see how it looks and that was when I noticed that I made a really stupid mistake

When I glued the hull parts together I rather ingeniously glued the rear section of the hull sides on upside down

Luckily it is a small section so I will have to recut the section and redo the butt block

Posted: **Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:09 pm**

Haha, you're a brave man, epoxying on a finished floor...

Posted: **Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:10 pm**

Cracker Larry wrote:

My wife would kill me

Looks great! Hope you live to see it finished

When she got home she figured out why I had said to her "Sure honey go shopping and visit your parents for a while too". On top of that I made her help me carry them out

But I made sure there wasn't a drop of epoxy on that floor or my power tools might have disappeared

Posted: **Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:19 pm**

Looking good Bassmunn! Hopefully one day my work will be that clean.

Posted: **Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:27 pm**

Thanks Gramps.

And I did have plastic sheets under the butt blocks otherwise my wife would have epoxied me to the gate post outside

Posted: **Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:41 pm**

My wife would kill me

If she didn't kill me, Shirley would have died herself. I say God bless 'em, we are a trial. I'm not always sure what they see in us, but Lord knows, I'm grateful

You're work is very clean; looks so much better than mine. I see the craftsman in you. And of course the great courage on the living room floor. That goes without saying. We lesser men salute you! You are a beacon, a watershed, a clear testimony; a guiding light to what can be. You are crazy. You are reckless. You are a deaf man on the tracks, with your back to the train. You are clearly a great man!

Salutes you Dougster

Posted: **Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:49 pm**

Swmbo would have gutted me like a fish if I had done that on the house floor.

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:22 am**

Thanks Dougster, I hope you're right about the craftsman

We'll see in a few weeks time what she looks like.

It's starting to look like a boat so now I'm really getting excited.

I didn't get much done today, just sorted out the laminating mistake I made. We have cold rainy weather today so my epoxy won't set quickly enough.
The weather is looking better tomorrow, so I'll spend some time notching up family points tonight and get stuck into the boat tomorrow.

A question - If I wanted to extend the front deck back towards the console, would I need to put in an extra full size bulkead or could I get away with using a bulkhead that just sits on top of the sole?

Shannon

Posted: **Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:30 pm**

Shannon the new rear bulkhead can sit on the sole. Many people like the larger casting deck that this will give you.

Tom

Posted: **Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:55 pm**

Thanks for the clarification Tom. I would rather have a larger casting deck and sacrifice some cockpit space. The only time I will be in the cockpit is when I'm behind the wheel, so it really doesn't need to be very big. And I get more hatch space

I have another question - I have fitted all the hull panels and got it to as near as perfect as I am capable. I have small gaps in all areas as the plans state I must have with none exceeding 9mm (most of my gaps are about 6mm). What would be the best method to now secure the panels so that I can remove the cable ties.
Could I build epoxy seems in the gaps, let them dry and then remove the cable ties and then complete the seems in the gaps left. Or must I use small pieces of glass to tab the parts together. If I can I would prefer to use fillets as I think the fillets will help keep the shape better.

What do you experienced guys think?

Thanks
Shannon

Posted: **Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:38 pm**

Bassmunn, welcome

Spot weld the hull panels together with a mix of epoxy and wood flour. No tape required yet. Keep your tacks small and flat and it will reduce sanding when you remove the zip ties and build real fillets....

Richard

Posted: **Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:42 pm**

Thanks Richard, I was hoping I could do that. I take it that I will still need to brush epoxy on to the area first to seal the wood?

Posted: **Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:55 pm**

BassMunn wrote:Thanks Richard, I was hoping I could do that. I take it that I will still need to brush epoxy on to the area first to seal the wood?

No. It's not necessary.

The size of the spot welds is a matter of personal preference. Some people build them right up to the zip ties. Others just tack at 6 or so inch intervals. What you are looking for is a nice radius in your finished fillet so the tape conforms and has no dry spots.

Richard

Posted: **Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:05 pm**

What you want now is just to hold the wood together. You will follow up with a full size filet and glass tape that is rounded to give the fiber glass cloth a clean radius to curve around.

Tom

Posted: **Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:22 pm**

OK got it.
Thanks Tom and Richard

Posted: **Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:16 pm**

BassMunn

You should put tape on inside to keep the spot welds
from dripping on to the floor.

JIM

Posted: **Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:44 pm**

You should know that before you have a finished boat you will have a permanent boat-shaped circle of epoxy on the garage floor!

Posted: **Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:36 pm**

Hehehe, I've already started my epoxy coated driveway

Got the panels on last night and tack welded them today with a filleting paste. Now if the weather would be nice to me I could have actually started glassing tonight but it's still too cold, so I'll have to leave it till the morning. (so much for living in a sub tropical climate, OK so in 3 months I'll be complaining about how it never cools down, where never happy are we?)

I got my first batch of epoxy kick on me while still in a cup, this stuff gets hot

and even smokes a little, luckily wasn't much.

Here's some updated pics

Posted: **Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:53 pm**

Alright! That's my favorite part, seeing the hull put together. Just a little more work now and you'll have a boat!

Posted: **Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:58 pm**

chicagoross wrote:Alright! That's my favorite part, seeing the hull put together. Just a little more work now and you'll have a boat!

Yeah it's real exciting to see it finally take shape

WHOOHOOO!!!!! Now I just want to work night and day on it

Posted: **Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:47 pm**

Update and a whole lot of questions for the experienced

Did all the filleting of the seems today, in the morning I'll sand the edges round and start the fibreglass seems. Did I ever say that waiting for epoxy to dry is very frustrating? Oh well suppose it gives you a chance to think up better ideas

OK, I have a whole bunch of questions

1. When adding strakes do you run the strake all the way to the end of the transom - I seem to remember reading somewhere on here that they need to end sooner?

2. Is it worth putting a pad into the back of the keel?

3. I can't decide if I need to completely finish the outer hull all the way to final paint before I flip it over. Should I flip after the high build primer or the fairing? It seems simpler to finish it completely first, but I'm concerned about getting slight warp in the hull when I flip and glass the stringers and bulkheads in. I don't want to spend all the time finishing the hull only to find that I have a hook or rocker once I finish the insides.

4. I want my hatches to have a completely flush fit, what do you guys do to seal a hatch like this. I was thinking of ordering some hatch lids from some one like BassPro, but with our exchange rate just dropping off the planet in this last week, if I order all the hatch lids I want they are going to cost me as much as all the Marine ply did for the boat

OK get typing already

Thanks
Shannon

Posted: **Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:05 pm**

If your epoxy is kicking to fast for you go with a slow hardner. One important thing is you can't rush it. By this I mean wait until your fillets are dry enough on all seams before you take all zip ties loose. You do not want it to spring open on you. After all seams are hard, sand smooth then precoat all area with epoxy mix first. This will allow epoxy to penetrate the wood and seal it, also giving you a better base for your taping..I now have my PH 16 up for sale and is sitting on a local car dealer on consignment. With the economy the way it is I hope it will go fast.You will get plenty of help when you need it from all the board members. Good luck it is a great hull. By the way you don't need a pad. I did it because I thought it would make it run faster. I really don't think it makes any diff. A lot of extra work and material. Material is money. ??? Your call.

Posted: **Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:27 pm**

Thanks for the advice Ken. I was thinking about putting in a pad but was also wondering about the effects of it. I know they use pads on the bass boats but they have a deeper vee hull. The Phantom has such a flat hull I wasn't sure if it would have made much of a difference.

Hope you sell your boat soon. What's next on the build list?

Posted: **Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:05 am**

Kind of weird. Certain water conditions make the hull act in diff. ways. In small choppy conditions the hull gets on top and runs out fairly smooth. Then at other times depending on which direction you are running into the wind or behind it the hull has a tendancy to get just a little squirrely. Only in the stern area. You can feel it. Other tnan that it runs out great. My pad is not a raised pad. All I did was come off each side from center approx 4" ea. wayCut 1x3 clear fir from 3/4 to 0 on edge. This worked out that the side edges were the same hight as the keel. .So no draft was affected depth wise.

Posted: **Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:37 pm**

Thanks for the details Ken, I still think I might put one on.

Posted: **Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:50 pm**

Phew, what a long day, but I do believe I have a boat that will actually float now

Taping all the joints with Biax tape and epoxy resin

Ply epoxy coated.

Ready for glass cloth

Glassing complete, well almost, still have to do the sides. No energy left

Posted: **Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:05 pm**

Look at the pictures on my PH 16 for sale post. You will se how I did my strakes and pad. Nice job on the tapeing.

Posted: **Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:20 pm**

Thanks Ken. The tapeing came out really well. I battled a bit with the cloth lines (they're a bit scew), but they cover all the areas that they need to. Did you glass your hull sides all the way to the top

I like the way you did your strakes and pad, I think I'm gonna steal your idea

Shannon

Posted: **Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:26 pm**

Great progress

Your going to be done before I finish typing this

Glass the entire hull on the outside...

Richard

Posted: **Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:35 pm**

Aripeka Angler wrote:Great progress Your going to be done before I finish typing this Glass the entire hull on the outside...

Richard

I'm trying

I thought so, after working 12 hours flat out one tends to try find short cuts

. When I wake up tomorrow I probably won't even consider not doing it.

What size overlap do I need for the cloth on the side - 2"?

Posted: **Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:40 pm**

Shannon, I overlapped 4 inches on my cloth. I am pretty sure this is ok for your your boat, but others will comment. I used two layers of cloth on my boat so it quite different....

Richard

Posted: **Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:32 am**

Send me your address and I will send you pictures on my strakes and pad.. Minimum overlap is 2" Four is better.

Posted: **Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:24 am**

Thanks Richard

Ken, yes please send me some more pics

Thanks

Posted: **Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:47 am**

I have to snail mail these to you. Send me your mailing address.

Posted: **Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:07 am**

Shame Ken you don't have to send me your printed photos, but if you want to

send to:
Umm could you rather send me a mail so that I can get your email address, I don't really want to post all my details on the net. I would send you a pm but it seems that my messaging service on here doesn't work (I don't think my account has ever been activated properly)(did you get the pm I sent earlier?)

Thanks

Posted: **Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:05 am**

Nice glasswork, very neat & clean. I overlap by 4 or 5" if possible. 2" is a bare minimum really, you need the overlaps for strength.
Steve

Posted: **Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:35 am**

Thanks Steve, I'm gonna use a full panel sized sheet down the sides so it will give me about 5" of overlap. Should do the trick

Posted: **Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:54 am**

Nice looking build - did you add some to the sheer? On my Ph16 there was only enough room for two - three wire ties at the bow. Looks good

Posted: **Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:30 am**

Chalk wrote:Nice looking build - did you add some to the sheer? On my Ph16 there was only enough room for two - three wire ties at the bow. Looks good

Thanks Chalk. No I cut the parts as per the plans. I've obviously got the odd slight cutting error here and there, but so far I haven't found anything that a slight sanding can't sort out.
I did have my cable ties very close together on the bow, I tried 3 at first, but they snapped twice so I put more in, the holes were about 1 1/2" apart.

Posted: **Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:23 pm**

Seems like more area there than mine - here's a pic of my bow

Posted: **Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:00 pm**

GeeWiz I see what you mean! Now you've got me worried.

Maybe the plans have been changed slightly, here are the drawings of the bow panel

I don't look too far off, but I'm going to go measure again just to make sure

Posted: **Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:16 pm**

Chalk, I've just checked everything out and my measurements are correct.

But there definately seems to be a plan change somewhere along the line.
If I look at the PH16's built by Doug Skogman, Casey Jones and your picture and John Pelligrino's PH18, they all have the smaller (more tapered) hull side points.
But if I look at mine and Gordons (Not sure his surname) they have the larger less tapered points. Here is the link to Gordons build site. You can clearly see there is a difference. http://desertphantom.blogspot.com/
The latter seems to be the newer plan

Do you have a build log by the way, I like to see each builders work to see if i can pick up some new ideas.

Thanks

Posted: **Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:23 pm**

I actually like it - was thinking of doing another one but with a lower sheer...Build on

Posted: **Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:34 pm**

Me too

Just 1 side left to glass and then I can flip it over to start the inside. The rain kinda halted me in my tracks today - that and the stiff joints and muscles (must be getting old)

Posted: **Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:52 pm**

After working myslef to a frazzle last Sunday, the boat building was halted due to work (don't you hate it when it interferes with fishing and boat building

) and a lot of rain. My boat sits just covered from the rain, but it's not fun every time you bend down you get a nice cold trickle off the roof down your pants

I guess that's what happens when you have limited space and rain season just started.

Got the hull fliped today and spent an hour or two making sure the hull was sitting nice and level. I'm very worried about introducing a hook or rocker now.

I test fitted the bulkheads and stringers again just to make sure everything is right, looks pretty good although I will have a bit of altering to do to the bulkheads once the glass is done on the inside.
Got the grinder out and started to work on cleaning up the seems. 20 minutes and I looked like I was doing early preperation for Halloween.

One thing I am a little worried about. I raised the height of the hull on the jig so that it is easier to work with, my knees can't take much more kneeling down.
But there is no way in creation that I can reach the middle seem without getting into the hull. I've tried to support the hull as best as I can, but I'm a bit worried about putting my 220lb a@s on 1/4" ply with only one side glassed. What did you guys do to overcome this, besides loosing weight

Thanks
Shannon

Posted: **Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:11 pm**

Stretch a few boards across the sheer and lay on them

Got sore knees myself

Of course KS would spend about a year designing and building an elaborate jig that raises, lowers and rotates like a pig on a spit, but I just stretch out across a few boards

Posted: **Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:16 pm**

That sounds like a good idea Larry thanks.
This way I can lie down on the job too

For once I wish I had Mr Gadget arms

Posted: **Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:29 pm**

You could also lay some planks across the stringers and stand on them. That would distribute your weight

That is a wide boat.

Posted: **Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:48 pm**

Cracker Larry wrote:You could also lay some planks across the stringers and stand on them. That would distribute your weight That is a wide boat.

Thanks Larry, but I still need to fillet and glass the bare hull before the stringers and bulkheads go in.
For your first suggestion would the sheer have enough strength to hold my weight considering there are no bulkheads in place to give them support?

Posted: **Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:53 pm**

If you have the outside glassed it will def. hold you on the inside. The glass is amazeing the strength it has. You should be ok. Still need to get the pictures to you. I haven't forgot.

Posted: **Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:01 pm**

stickystuff wrote:If you have the outside glassed it will def. hold you on the inside. The glass is amazeing the strength it has. You should be ok. Still need to get the pictures to you. I haven't forgot.

Thanks Ken, Yes the outside is completely glassed. I'll give it a shot in the morning (before I have breakfast

)

Posted: **Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:26 pm**

BassMunn wrote:

Shannon

Shannon you are doing great.The boat looks nice

Do you need a drain in the forward bulkhead to allow water to drain aft in the event of a forward bilge flood?

Richard

Posted: **Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:36 pm**

Thanks Richard.

Yes I'm going to put drain holes into all of the bulkheads before I glass them. Thanks for the heads up

Posted: **Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:40 pm**

Slow going this weekend - life interfered

Did all the seems on the inside and coated with epoxy ready for tape.
Notice the neat bundles of pre-cut tape, hehehe

I made a rather painful mistake today, when I glassed the outside I didn't get a single airbubble in the tape (only the large sheets, that I had to work out), because this was the inside and is going to be out of sight I didn't spend anywhere near as much time sanding the fillets - BIG mistake, I have so many air bubbles after doing the inside taping, that I am going to have to spend the next 3 days sanding it all out, Grrrrr

Do it right the first time, next time

Posted: **Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:10 am**

B Munn,
Working wet on wet over the fillets will prevent you from having to sand fillets. Form the fillets about ten feet at a time and then apply thin resin and tape over the fillets while they are still kicking off. The resin brushed on the fillets will "smooth" them so you get no bubbles. Very little resin is required on top of the glass tape in the middle after placing the tape. Just a bit to hold the edges down. This tip will save you DAYS!

Posted: **Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:32 pm**

JimW wrote:B Munn,
Working wet on wet over the fillets will prevent you from having to sand fillets. Form the fillets about ten feet at a time and then apply thin resin and tape over the fillets while they are still kicking off. The resin brushed on the fillets will "smooth" them so you get no bubbles. Very little resin is required on top of the glass tape in the middle after placing the tape. Just a bit to hold the edges down. This tip will save you DAYS!

JimW, Thanks for the tips.
I didn't really think about doing the inside differently to the outside, I had to let the outside fillets setup so that I could sand to get the correct camber.
I automatically did the same on the inside without thinking.
I am now finished the inside hull glassing, PHEW, hard work (wish my arms were 6" longer).
Tomorrow I start installing the stringers and bulkheads. I will definately be using the wet on wet approach for all these parts.
JimW I like your method of brushing the fillet before laying the tape, gonna try that tomorrow.

Thanks
Shannon

Posted: **Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:45 pm**

Well after muttering and grumbling last night about all my air bubbles, I thought I was in for a full day of sanding just to try get things right.
When I had a good look in daylight there weren't as many as I thought, some were just high spots that were solid underneath, so I sanded those lower and patched them where I sanded through the glass.
I had a total of 5 true air bubbles, all on the edges where the glass goes over the butt blocks, I used a syringe to inject epoxy into the gaps and they filled in nicely. (they were all pretty small).
Spent the rest of the night glassing in the cloth sheets.

Tomorrow I start on the Stringers and Bulkheads

Posted: **Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:56 pm**

Question - So far I have glassed the inside and the outside of the hull completely, but still have to do all the stringers, bulkheads and so on.
I have already used about 2/3 of my epoxy resin, does this sound about right?
I thought I was doing pretty well with my glassing as I can see the glass weave in all areas and have waisted very little, but it seems that I may run out of resin

Posted: **Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:18 pm**

BassMunn wrote:Question - So far I have glassed the inside and the outside of the hull completely, but still have to do all the stringers, bulkheads and so on.
I have already used about 2/3 of my epoxy resin, does this sound about right?

Ahem

I am trying to figure how to say this in a PC way

Order another 10-15 gallons and you should be good to go

My build was listed at 11.5 gallons and I used 28. Of course I added a few features. I was a pig with the sticky stuff

You waste a ton as a newby and the specs are a little bit on the conservative side in IMHO

Good luck
Richard

Posted: **Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:29 pm**

Thanks Richard. I did glass the sides all the way to the top which the plans don't call for and I am going to glass the deck which is also not included, so I suppose I better order some more

Posted: **Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:25 pm**

My HMD called for 15 gallons. I used extra for glassing the sides, sole, decks, and cabin front; also used a bit for 3 coats of graphite on the bottom. My finished tally was 30 gallons, double the BOM. Don't feel bad, especially if you're adding "extras" above the basic build, as you are!

Posted: **Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:35 am**

Cool thanks Chicagoross

Posted: **Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:38 am**

I second the comment from Chicago. The P19 BOM also lists 15 gal of epoxy. If you calculate the weights, this is about the amount you need to lay the fiberglass with some waste factor. You also need filets, coating of bare wood, fairing material and non hull issues like the consols. I was very careful not to add excess weight and ended up using about 27 gallons when all was done.

Posted: **Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:32 am**

ericsil wrote:I second the comment from Chicago. The P19 BOM also lists 15 gal of epoxy. If you calculate the weights, this is about the amount you need to lay the fiberglass with some waste factor. You also need filets, coating of bare wood, fairing material and non hull issues like the consols. I was very careful not to add excess weight and ended up using about 27 gallons when all was done.

OK this sounds like the norm, guess I'll be ordering some more epoxy soon.

Another question - When do you guys put the holes in the transom for the drain and livewell fittings? Do yu do it before fairing the outside or after?

Posted: **Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:02 am**

OK, got a bit more done last night.

Test fitting the stringers and bulkheads, I then tack welded the stringers in place with an epoxy slurry.

Stringers shown with tack welds, ready to be filleted and glassed.

Stringers now glassed in place, I still need to glass the rest of the bare wood on the stringers as per the plans.
All the joints were done wet on wet. Finished at 3am in the morning

I started off really neatly but I seem to be getting a lot messier as I go along, maybe I'm trying to do too much at once.

Before I put the bulkheads in place, I still need to glass the open hull sides, the tops of the stringers and I need to spend some time cleaning up some of the nasty areas.

Posted: **Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:35 am**

Yup, that's the process, looks good. Still a few more filets to go before you start laying them in visible places.

You're not using wood flour for the peanut butter for filets - what blend are you using?

Posted: **Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:42 am**

chicagoross wrote:Yup, that's the process, looks good. Still a few more filets to go before you start laying them in visible places.

You're not using wood flour for the peanut butter for filets - what blend are you using?

I'm using a mixture of microballoons and silica, I couldn't find wood flour

Posted: **Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:51 am**

BassMunn wrote:
chicagoross wrote:Yup, that's the process, looks good. Still a few more filets to go before you start laying them in visible places.

You're not using wood flour for the peanut butter for filets - what blend are you using?
I'm using a mixture of microballoons and silica, I couldn't find wood flour

Shannon, they sell the wood flour here in the online store.

Posted: **Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:02 am**

Yes I know, but getting it to South Africa costs more than what I can buy the other materials here for.
I hate mixing microballoons into epoxy, but it's what I can get easily.

The Biax tape I am using is also not the same as required, but it's all I could get., the plans call for 6" 12oz biax, I'm using 5" 18oz biax, I figure it should be fine......I hope

Posted: **Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:23 am**

Shannon I had no idea you were across the pond

There used to be an address bar on each signature but they took it away for some reason

You could make your own wood flour with a dust bag belt sander and some kiln dried pine or mahogany lumber. Saw dust or planer shavings would be too course. The fillers you have available should be OK but I am sure others will comment.

The workmanship of your build looks great

Continued good luck....

Richard

Posted: **Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:37 am**

Thanks Richard, I actually tried to add the address but also couldn't find it, yet some people do have their locations shown

If I remember correctly I read somewhere in the FAQ's that the Micro/Silica combination is actually stronger than the wood flour but more expensive, I might be wrong though. Micro on it's own wasn't strong enough and silica on it's own was too brittle, but together they work well. I'll try find the article or post.

When you guys glass the tops of your stringers, do you take the glass to the edge and stop or are you trying to fold the glass over the top. There's no way I'll be able to get it to do that without huge airbubbles.

Posted: **Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:41 am**

BassMunn wrote:

Notice how tight my gaps are where the stringers go through the bulkheads, obviously once glassed these won't even fit in. What do you guys do or use to open the gap? (apart from using a handfile....I'm tired

)

Posted: **Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:48 am**

Shannon, use a jigsaw to open up the slots in the bulkheads. Should work fine

Just run the tape to the top of the stringers. You would have to fully radius the top the stringers to wrap them. In any case it is not required to wrap them. Be sure to saturate the top open grain of the stringers with epoxy...

Richard

Posted: **Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:58 am**

Thanks Richard.

Oh I just found the article on mixing the putty fillets.

Quote:Putty can be made with wood flour but the ideal filler is a mix of microballoons and silica. Microballoons are microscopic bubbles of glass or plastic (phenolic). Silica is some kind of chemically pure sand.

http://bateau2.com/content/view/99/28/

Phew, I did remember correctly

I think it's also time to find a resin mixer

Posted: **Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:58 am**

I didn't glass the stringers first, and didn't glass over the top of stringers. I glued the frames in just like in your dry fit picture, then glassed each individual "cell". Kinda tedious, but working wet on wet you can do one cell at a time and it seemed quite strong.

But then what does he know Dougster

Posted: **Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:01 pm**

Dougster wrote:I didn't glass the stringers first, and didn't glass over the top of stringers. I glued the frames in just like in your dry fit picture, then glassed each individual "cell". Kinda tedious, but working wet on wet you can do one cell at a time and it seemed quite strong.

But then what does he know Dougster

Dougster after doing the stringers the way that I did, I think your idea might have been a better prospect.

Posted: **Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:49 pm**

Bassmun, I went compartment by compartment also - that's how I manage to build a boat about 2 hours a day. You'll still be doing that as you glue and tape in the frames. Working til 3AM is optional at this point!

No problem for you now that your stringers are in, but I was terrified of being in the boat when it had no internal structure yet; working compartment by compartment let me kneel in an area next to the one I reinforced the previous day; only worried about dropping out the bottom for the first compartment!

Posted: **Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:27 pm**

Richard, the guyis in S. Africa. Maybe he can find some gaboon powder. (NOT)I used microbaloons on my PH when Ibuilt it. did not have wood flour at the time I built it.

Posted: **Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:22 pm**

chicagoross wrote:Bassmun, I went compartment by compartment also - that's how I manage to build a boat about 2 hours a day. You'll still be doing that as you glue and tape in the frames. Working til 3AM is optional at this point! No problem for you now that your stringers are in, but I was terrified of being in the boat when it had no internal structure yet; working compartment by compartment let me kneel in an area next to the one I reinforced the previous day; only worried about dropping out the bottom for the first compartment!

.

The biggest mistake I made is that I filleted all the stringers first and then realised that I had 8 full pieces of tape to glass in

and that was at 12 at night.....Duh??? You live and learn, atleast I will have huge calf and hamstring muscles by the end of this

I was also very worried about the strength of the bottom, but before I glassed the inside of the hull I put extra supports under it and only crawled on my hands and knees keeping to the centre. Once the inside glass had cured the bottom was much stronger, but I stayed on my hands and knees. Needless to say I can't stand up straight today.

I'm going to start installing the bulkheads tomorrow and will finish the stringer glassing bit by bit as I do each compartment. Your's and Dougster's method is far more conducive to less back and knee pain

and getting to bed before 3am

Posted: **Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:27 pm**

stickystuff wrote:Richard, the guyis in S. Africa. Maybe he can find some gaboon powder. (NOT)I used microbaloons on my PH when Ibuilt it. did not have wood flour at the time I built it.

Uuuuhhhh........I think I'll stick to microballons and silica

Might make a good anti theft device though

Posted: **Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:33 pm**

You did your stringers the right way for a small, high powered skiff. Continious lamination of the stringers is better and stronger for a high speed planing hull. I don't know about displacement hulls such as Chicagoross's and Doug's

In the end I think you will be happy with your stringer lamination.....

Richard

Posted: **Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:46 pm**

Aripeka Angler wrote:You did your stringers the right way for a small, high powered skiff. Continious lamination of the stringers is better and stronger for a high speed planing hull. I don't know about displacement hulls such as Chicagoross's and Doug's

In the end I think you will be happy with your stringer lamination.....

Richard

I think you're right Richard, the plans call for it to be done that way, so I did it that way. Atleast it's done now and I can start on the bulkheads tomorrow morning

I must say this boat building thing really tests your resolve, last night (this morning) I wanted to kick myself for even thinking about building a boat myself. Right now I'm all excited about doing more on it tomorrow

What I am enjoying is seeing and feeling it become stronger and more ready to hit the water each day

Posted: **Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:40 pm**

It is better to do the stringers on the planing hulls in one full length.
It is easier from here, because you can(or I did anyway), fillet & tape one bulkhead, & while that was curing set up another one at the other end
Steve

Posted: **Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:39 pm**

Thanks Steve, now that it's over I'm glad I did it that way.

I spent the day today altering the bulkheads so that they fit properly now that I have done all the glassing on the stringers. I had to open up the stringer slots a bit and angle the corners to allow space for the fillets on the stringers. After I got all the gaps right, spacing correct and level I tacked them all in place. Tomorrow night I can start filleting and glassing the individual boxes....1 at a time

Although it was nice to see the hull take shape, I am really starting to enjoy this part of the build.
I'm just not sure how far to go once I have finished the bulkheads before I flip it again to do the fairing and painting.

What do all you experts say?
Do I flip it as soon as the bulkheads are done or do I install all the cleats, the sole and sheer clamps and then flip it, or finish the deck and then flip???
Decisions, Decisions

Posted: **Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:21 am**

I'd keep it as light as I could. frames and stringers and fiberglass on both sides will maintain the bottom and sides shape and the shear clamp and rub rail if it calls for one the upper sides shape. So I guess I'm saying only add the shear clamp and rub rail if a rub rail is caller for.

Tom

Posted: **Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:52 pm**

Tom's right. Keep it as light as possible. At this point you'll still be able to flip it with just a few friends and neighbors and beers.

Posted: **Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:21 pm**

Thanks for the answers TomW and chicagoross. OK I'll finish the bulkheads, install the sheer clamps and then she goes over to make her look pretty

OK I've got another question - Do you install the skeg and strakes before you fair the hull or after. I'm thinking before you fair will be stronger (I think), but the hull might not be fair enough until it is faired??
My glassing on the outside came out really well, but I think I am going to have a slight rocker that I will need to fix.

Posted: **Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:23 pm**

chicagoross wrote:Tom's right. Keep it as light as possible. At this point you'll still be able to flip it with just a few friends and neighbors and beers.

I better not forget the beers or I might have a strike on my hands

Posted: **Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:26 pm**

Do you install the skeg and strakes before you fair the hull or after.

Before. They should be glued and glassed to the solid glass of the hull. Then you can fair up to it. You don't want to make a structural attachment over fairing compound, it may not hold the stress.

Posted: **Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:42 pm**

Agree with Larry any attachments should be made epoxy to epoxy not to fairing compound. Like he says fairing compound can be structurally weak. Don't forget to sand the current epoxy good since it has been a while since you put it down so you get a good mechanical bond.

Tom

Posted: **Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:10 pm**

Thanks Larry and Tom, I thought that might be the case as the fairing compound should be weaker to allow easier sanding.

When I install the strakes and skeg, is it necessary to screw them down to the hull while the epoxy dries? Can I get away with just using a bit of weight or do they slide around too much?

Thanks
Shannon

Posted: **Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:36 pm**

No screws. I didn't even use extra weight, just the weight of the skeg was enough.

Posted: **Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:38 pm**

Cool, thanks Larry

Posted: **Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:39 pm**

duct tape

Posted: **Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:02 pm**

topwater wrote:duct tape

Love the stuff

More questions

For the outside of the hull - I still have a large amount of the weave from the glass cloth showing. Do I put fairing compound straight over this or do I roll extra clean epoxy resin on first to fill in the weave and then put down the fairing compound?

Thanks
Shannon

Posted: **Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:06 pm**

Use fairing compound.....

Posted: **Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:21 pm**

Yes, it's much lighter and more cost effective. And a lot easier to sand

Posted: **Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:26 pm**

I was hoping that would be the answer

OK I'm pushing my luck here, but I've got another question

As you all now know I live in South Africa and although all the paint brands sound great that you guys deal with, we don't get them here.
In the FAQ's, it states that the best paint to use is a 2 part polyurethane paint, but I'm battling to figure out what to use based on these details I have been given:

2K Polyurethane (Metalux 2 by Chemspec) (acrylic) - used in the automotive industry - 2:1 mix ratio, 10 to 20 percent thinners.
They also do a high build primer.

Or

Chemthane - Which is also supposedly a Polyurethane, but the mix ratio only uses a 5% hardener. The guy said it is much stronger than the other 2k but doesn't have quite the same finish and it's much cheaper.

Any ideas

Posted: **Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:38 pm**

BassMunn wrote:I was hoping that would be the answer

OK I'm pushing my luck here, but I've got another question

As you all now know I live in South Africa and although all the paint brands sound great that you guys deal with, we don't get them here.
In the FAQ's, it states that the best paint to use is a 2 part polyurethane paint, but I'm battling to figure out what to use based on these details I have been given:

2K Polyurethane (Metalux 2 by Chemspec) (acrylic) - used in the automotive industry - 2:1 mix ratio, 10 to 20 percent thinners.
They also do a high build primer.

Or

Chemthane - Which is also supposedly a Polyurethane, but the mix ratio only uses a 5% hardener. The guy said it is much stronger than the other 2k but doesn't have quite the same finish and it's much cheaper.

Any ideas

I have no clue on South African paint

My gut would be use the stuff that will catch on fire if you drop a match a match in the can. I did not like the water based topcoat.....

Richard

Posted: **Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:12 pm**

BassMunn International Paints or Interlux as we know it here has a distributer in Durban South Africa. Several of the guys have used the Perfection brand from Interlux and been very satisfied with it. Here is the link http://www.yachtpaint.com/Holding_pages ... africa.htm

It is the only paint I know of that may have distributers around the world. Awlgrip may also but I wouldn't know enough about them to help you there.

Tom

Posted: **Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:17 pm**

TomW wrote:BassMunn International Paints or Interlux as we know it here has a distributer in Durban South Africa. Several of the guys have used the Perfection brand from Interlux and been very satisfied with it. Here is the link http://www.yachtpaint.com/Holding_pages ... africa.htm

Tom

Thanks Tom.
When I did a search on google it didn't come up with anything, guess I did it wrong

Cool I live in Durban

Will phone them in the morning

Posted: **Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:52 pm**

Shannon, I would see if you could find some Sterling if you are looking for a fine boat finish. Based on the quality of your build I am thinking you are looking for something a little better than a work boat finish. Awlgrip and the other stuff that Tom our boat and paint expert posted about will work great also. Slow down or you will be done before Thanksgiving

I like solvent based paint better myself....

Richard

Posted: **Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:00 pm**

Thanks Richard, I will see if I can find out about these other brands.

I would like to paint with a solvent based paint, or should I say spray. For the boat building I'm a newbie, but I know my way around a spray gun

These new Glitter covered marvels that are arriving here from the US are gonna have some competition

Posted: **Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:12 am**

Shannon, the brands to look for in boat paint would be the International either Perfection or they have one better grade Interthane Plus, Awlgrip, Sterling and Imron. Imron and Awlgrip are pretty international in there uses don't know how wide spread Sterling is. All will give you an outstanding finish, none are cheap.
Here is the Awlgrip he is in Somerset West http://www.awlgrip.com/awlgrip_pages/di ... r_emea.htm You can also review the product there on the left hand side.

Imron is made by Dupont I could not find a S. African source for it.

If you are going to spray all will require rebreathing(forced air) apparatus, they are that toxic.

Tom

Posted: **Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:04 pm**

Thanks Tom, I got hold of the Perfection agents today and they have in stock but geewiz it's expensive

, They have an alternative that is way cheaper and it is also the right kind of stuff (epoxy high build primer and Polyurethane topcoat paint, both 2 part, specifically for boats).

I'll do a test run using the roll and tip method, before I dig my heels in about the spraying option. If I can get a good finish with that method, I'll use it. I'll leave the spraying for when I do some graphics on the sides.

Update on the boat:
Did 19 bulkhead joints tonight, 25 left to go. All done wet on wet. My filleting and glassing is coming out really nicely now

Working on smaller areas really helps a lot.

Posted: **Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:25 pm**

OK I posted this in the paint section, but thought I'll post it here as well, just incase someone misses it

Trying to figure out what to do about the paint story

Hi Guys

I will be getting ready to paint my hull within the next week or so, but I really can't decide on what paint to use

My Problem - I live in South Africa, so products like Interlux Perfection are stupid expensive

.
For the price of just 2 quartz of Perfection I can buy all my paint requirements, from primer, topcoat, clear coat, hardeners and thinners.
These are local brands - 2 part polyurethane automotove paint.

Could anyone that has used an automotive paint like this, please give me some feedback as to the suitability and longevity of the paint.

Thanks
Shannon

Posted: **Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:39 pm**

Shannon can you get this stuff there

http://www.sikkens.net/

Ken repainted his boat with this paint.

Maybe he will see this post and respond. The boat looked great

Richard

Added: I just spoke with Ken on his cell and he said Sikkens was indeed the paint he used....

Posted: **Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:28 pm**

Richard do you know if he painted the underside of the hull with it?
Curious to know if it will handle the punishment that area takes.

Thanks

Posted: **Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:30 pm**

BassMunn wrote:Richard do you know if he painted the underside of the hull with it?

Thanks

No, he used graphite epoxy below the water line....

Posted: **Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:56 pm**

Thanks for the feedback Richard.

I've got some of this

to do now

For those that are not painting system challenged like me

Would an epoxy based or polyurethane based high build primer be better?

Posted: **Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:08 pm**

I'd go with an epoxy based primer. High build if you can get it.

Posted: **Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:09 pm**

Cracker Larry wrote:I'd go with an epoxy based primer. High build if you can get it.

Larry if you don't mind me asking, what's your reasoning for it. Is it stronger?

Posted: **Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:11 pm**

Bassmun, don't ask me, I'm strictly a work-boat finish kind of guy..."A man's got to know his limitations...". The builders here seem to prefer the high-build epoxy primer as a general rule.

I do have two recomendations: First of all, graphite the bottom of your hull; it's cheaper than painting, more durable, and looks good (the only really shiny part of my boat is the bottom of the hull

). You are safe to graphite at this point.

Second, primer only on the hull sides at this time; you will be drilling holes for scuppers, through-hulls, bow and stern-eyes, fuel tank vents, etc. You will still need to re-prime and sand hull sides after finishing the entire interior of the boat! IMHO this is the time for fairing and a prime coat only...

Posted: **Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:21 pm**

Thanks Chicagoross.

About the Graphite bottom - What, where, who

Sorry I've seen the build threads where it is used, but don't have a clue about it.

Posted: **Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:21 pm**

You can save some money by using a 25% graqhite to epoxy mix on the bottom as in the picture that Richard showed of Ken's boat. This gives a very hard bottom and is used by the guys here that have close contact with the oyster bars. Graphite is sold here or by West. Use it as your bottom paint so take it up to the waterline. Then if you keep your boat in the water and still want to bottom paint you can sand the graphite and put on a good bottome paint. If not you have a good looking bottom with the graqhite.

As far as primer goes, the epoxy hi-build primers seem to be able to work on most of all the paints, while the poly primers are paint designated.

You are right about the cost of the yacht paints even here they come to about $400 or more a gallon, once you get all the additives for them, but they are longer lasting, easier to apply, shinier and just a better overall product.

Tom

Posted: **Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:24 pm**

OK, Thanks TomW.
So the graphite bottom is just graphite powder mixed with epoxy resin?

Where do I find this stuff and what am I looking for in particular?

Sorry for the Newb questions

Posted: **Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:26 pm**

Sorry didn't read properly, just found it here on BBC.

Thanks

Posted: **Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:30 pm**

I'd go with an epoxy based primer. High build if you can get it.

Larry if you don't mind me asking, what's your reasoning for it. Is it stronger?

No probably no stronger, but the epoxy primer is compatable to the epoxy resin, and like Tom said, it is generically compatable for most paints. It is also somewhat gap filling and will help in fairing the hull.

Posted: **Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:56 pm**

Haven't done much building since Tuesday, but thought I would pop a pic in to show how far I am.

19 done 25 to go

I managed to find a local supplier of Graphite powder today, so she is going to get a black underside

And I bought myself a new spray gun - Oh boy!! New Toys!!

I will graphite coat the underside of the hull but the balance of the boat will be sprayed. One of the main reasons for this is that I am going to be doing some sort of pattern on the sides with a full glitter flake and this can only be sprayed.

Posted: **Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:55 pm**

Should be feeling pretty solid by now! I remember getting about half way, as you are, on the inside filet-and-tapes, and no longer worrying about whether I was going to be falling through the bottom!

Posted: **Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:09 pm**

Yes you can see that I did all the outside joints first because I was worried about that. It's really starting to get nice and rigid now. I've let it dry for 2 days so they are nice and strong. Now just to figure out how not to glass myself into the centre compartments

Posted: **Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:12 am**

Finally......., Bulkheads all fibreglassed in place

I'm going to install the sheer clamps now and then she is ready to be flipped.
This seems like a lot like work

Posted: **Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:05 pm**

No, this is the fun stuff...the "lot of work" is sanding and painting!

Posted: **Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:17 pm**

I can't complain it's been fun so far.
I was having a good look at my hull today and it looks like I am going to have a love hate relationship with my orbital sander.

Posted: **Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:48 pm**

You'll also need to build or buy fairing boards, two of them 1 a 1/4" for no-flat areas and 1 a 3/4" for flat areas or you'll never get her fair. Shine sells them in the store here if you want to see what they look like. But you can make your own easy enough.

Tom

Posted: **Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:11 pm**

TomW, when you say 1/4" and 3/4" is that the thickness of the board.
If so is that for a flexible and rigid system?

What sort of total dimensions are the fairing boards?

Thanks for the tips

I have another question - On my plans it calls for a sheer clamp using solid wood 1" x 2", but I've seen most guys use ply laminated together. Does it matter which I use or must I stick to the plans?

Thanks
Shannon

Posted: **Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:16 pm**

Does not matter with the clamp, Shawn

Fairing boards are usually about 4-6" wide and 24-36" long with a couple of handles on top. The larger they are, the more a man it takes to push them around

Posted: **Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:34 pm**

Cracker Larry wrote:The larger they are, the more a man it takes to push them around

So in other words mine should be about 6" long

Thanks for the help Larry, your boat looks amazing by the way

If I make them myself, what do I use to keep the sanding paper attached?

Posted: **Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:10 pm**

I used a spray on adhesive on mine, worked like a charm.
Daddy

Posted: **Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:39 pm**

Yes, same thing. You size it for standard belt sander belts, cut them to length and use 3M spray adhesive to stick them on.

Posted: **Sun Nov 09, 2008 8:37 am**

Yep flexible and rigid boards, for the different areas on the boat. The 4" sanding belts work well with the temporary type spray glue.

Shoulders be wider after fairing!

Tom

Posted: **Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:37 am**

Thanks guys, all these tips really help a lot

.

Decided to take a day off boat building today and went bass fishing instead, got a 3 pounder and a few 2 1/2's, nothing huge but it was fun to put a bend in my rods

Posted: **Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:45 pm**

Been a slow week building wise, on Monday night I glassed the top parts of the stringers. When I put the stringers in I just did the corner glassing and then installed the bulkheads, so I had to finish glassing the balance of them. I did large overlaps onto the bulkheads so that below the sole level there is no wood left without glass on it. It did however take a lot more glass and resin as opposed to doing it the plans way. Oh well should be stronger.

Went to the lumber yard on Tuesday and stocked up on Meranti strips for the cleats and sheer clamps. I'm going to use solid meranti on the straight sheer clamps and use layers of ply in the bow section.
Cut the sheer clamps out tonight and will fit them tomorrow night.

Now I need some help and suggestions.......PLEASE

Once the sheer clamps have set I need to flip the hull to start fairing, but it's a lot heavier now and I haven't got a clue how to tackle this

I am thinking along the lines of building some sort of jig to be able to lift it up, pull the building jig out from under it, remove the hull supports, flip the hull and then drop it down onto the flat building jig.
The reason I am looking at a jig is that I don't have rafters above the boat to attach hoists.

What suggestions do you guys have?

If I install the bow eye and stern eyes now and put in the necessary support can these hold the hulls weight?

Posted: **Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:28 pm**

You should have no problem lifting your hull from the eyes.

Posted: **Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:03 pm**

Putting in the backing plate on the bow eye now is a good idea anyway. Once that is in no problem lifting from the bow and stern eyes. This is what marina's use all the time to put boats in and out of the water. The stern eyes don't really need a backing plate since they are going through 3/4" or larger transom just make sure you use big enough washers or metal backing plate.

Tom

Posted: **Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:53 pm**

Thanks GK108 and TomW.

TomW for the bow eye backing plate I am thinking about using a piece of Meranti 2" wide 1" thick and 6" long, I will epoxy putty this in place and then glass it over. on top of that I will put a stainless plate. Does this sound workable?

I was also thinking about using the outboard mounting holes to fit a bracket and use this to swivel the boat on. From what I have read on the internet it sounds like most outboards use the same mounting template.
I don't have a motor yet so I'm not sure if this is a wise decision to drill those holes now. What do you guys think?

Thanks
Shannon

Posted: **Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:19 pm**

The bow eye sounds great, nice and strong.

One thing we have found over here is that never drill your motor bracket holes till you have the template every motor or bracket seems to be a little different. What would be best is to put your stern tow eyes on and use them to lift and turn the boat from. Then you'll have them all set just need to epoxy, redrill and they're ready to go.

Tom

Posted: **Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:24 pm**

Thanks Tom, I'll go with the stern eyes as originally planned.

Posted: **Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:30 pm**

OK I've got more questions

What do you guys think about drilling all the thru hull holes before I start the fairing, Drain, bilgepump outlet, livewell inlet and outlet?
I'm thinking drill (holesaw) oversize, fill with epoxy and redrill to correct size so that I don't have to drill through my nice paint job once I actually get there.

Or am I putting the cart before the horse

Posted: **Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:54 pm**

That sounds right. If you know where the hardware is gonna be any way might as well do it before hand. I was planning on doing that for my stern and bow eyes. Over drill it, fill it, then glass over it. that way you have glass right to the edge of the right sized hole. you can drill a small pilot hole through the center of the plug so you know exactly where it is after it's painted

Posted: **Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:43 pm**

You don't have to do them before fairing but yes at least before any painting. The reason I say not before fairing is you'll just have to keep cleaning the fairing out of the holes if you do them before fairing.

Tom

Posted: **Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:24 am**

That makes sense, Thanks

Posted: **Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:27 pm**

Ahh, you see far TomW-san

Posted: **Sun Nov 16, 2008 6:39 pm**

Got a few things done this weekend.

Started installing the sheer clamps

Installed the bow eye backing plate. You'll notice that I have used a huge fillet. I intially put a normal size fillet but landed up having extra putty and I wanted the angles to be as slight as possible, so I came back and slapped it on there

. I then put 2 layers of overlapping Biax tape on top of it. When the bow eyes goes in it will also have a nice stainless plate to lock up against.

In this picture you can also see where I was testing a white pigment in the epoxy which I will use at a later stage to recoat the complete inside of the hull.....Guess I need more pigment

I also lined up and drilled the stern eye holes and sanded down the transom, ready for fairing compound. Should finish the sheer clamps tomorrow night, by Wednesday she should be ready to flip for fairing

Posted: **Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:07 pm**

OK I'm thinking way ahead of myself here, but as you guys say it's always better to sit and ponder before I start anything

When I install my livewell the bottom of the well will need to sit lower than the tops of the stringers. What's the best way to support the base?
Can I install "mini" stringers in that compartment and mount the livewell on top of them or do I need to stay away from putting any excess pressure on the hull bottom and rather suspend the livewell. Doing it this way I will have to put extra cleats on the sides of the centre stringers and the bulkheads. Or can I do both?

Thanks
Shannon

I must also just say that this site and the forum members on here are great, your help has been priceless so far and I wouldn't know what to do half the time if it weren't for all of you, Thanks
Once I've got a bit more experience, I'll try to chime in from time to time on other threads, but for now I'll watch and learn

Posted: **Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:32 am**

I'd put down cleats foam up to them for insulation, and then glue down your bottom to the cleats and fiberglass tape it to your sides.

Tom

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:03 pm**

Thanks for the advice Tom, I didn't think of using foam for added support. Gonna be some heavy fish being carried around in that livewell

I've come to the conclusion that I don't have any where near enough clamps. For the straight sheer clamps the PVC clamp rings work great, but for the bends they just don't have enough pressure to hold the bits in place, so I've only been able to do 2 sections at a time. Just got the bow pieces left to do.
I never seem to be ready to flip for fairing (I think secretly I am actually trying to prolong this part to avoid the fairing

)

More questions

When I start laying down the fairing compound is it best to cover the entire hull in one go (basically wet on wet), or can you do it in sections?
I would imagine doing it all at one time is best?

Don't be shy with the tips here

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:28 pm**

You can do it either way, depending on how much working time you have. Notice Joel on his FS17 thread did the entire inside at one time.

If you have time to sand it all in the next couple of days, that's the way to go. But if you have to wait a week to sand it, the fairing will be hard as a rock. It sands best when it's 8 hours to a day old, the longer you wait the harder it gets. So it's easier if you plan a session to be as much as you have time to sand in a day or so.

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:35 pm**

Thanks Larry, I forgot about the fact that it gets harder as it gets older. I think I will do a few smaller sections until I get the hang of the fairing board

Posted: **Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:40 pm**

When I start laying down the fairing compound is it best to cover the entire hull in one go (basically wet on wet)

You should fill in the weave while the layed up cloth is still wet. This will save time later.

can you do it in sections

Yes. Remember that once the layed up cloth is dry for longer than a day you will have to sand and prep to get a good bond with your fairing compound.

I would imagine doing it all at one time is best?

You would be very good if you pulled that off

Don't be shy with the tips

I am sure there are a bunch of good ones coming....

Richard

Edit.. Larry types much faster than me

Posted: **Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:11 pm**

Thanks Richard.
I glassed the outside of the hull before I flipped it the first time, so I am going to have to sand it to prepare for the fairing paste.

Once the fairing compound is ready for sanding, do I start with the fairing board straight away or do I go over it with an orbital sander first

Just finished with the last of the sheer clamps and spent the rest of the evening building "contraptions" to assist me in lifting and flipping the hull.
So looks like tomorrow she will be going upside down to start making her look pretty - WhooHoo

Posted: **Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:52 pm**

You can use the sander to knock off any lumps but that's about it. Go to the fairing boards then.

Tom

Posted: **Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:17 pm**

Thanks for the answer TomW.

OK got my big girl flipped over today, I was expecting to quickly flip her and then start the fairing. Got her hoisted up in the air pretty easily, but when it came time to turn her over the fun started. The brackets I made to hold her bow and stern up weren't exactly very well engineered

And my welding sucks!

Luckily my brother came by the house to lend a helping hand, if it weren't for him I would probably have some damage to fix, so after lots of huffing and puffing we got her upside down and ready to start the fairing, without any damages PHEW!
When she gets flipped for the last time, I'm going with manpower and lots of thick grass.

I posted this questions in the power boat section - sorry if I'm not supposed to duplicate questions

When I install the strakes and skeg do I just glue them down, coat well with epoxy and then fair or do I need to glass them over?

Thanks
Shannon

Posted: **Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:16 pm**

When I install the strakes and skeg do I just glue them down, coat well with epoxy and then fair or do I need to glass them over?

I glassed my skeg down and then put an alluminum shoe on it after watching other builds and thinking about it. Tried to copy Larry's skeg (got the basics okay, just aint as purdy). Figure it is designed not only to keep the boat tracking in a turn, but also will be the first thing to hit if I run aground. The PITA is you need to round over the edges to get the glass to adhere properly, and then build up a sharp edge afterwards. Added several days to the job, but glad I did. Depending on where you fish it may not be an issue, but never want to replace my skeg, and know I'll be hitting it on something, sometime. This puppy is definitely on there and strong.

Lots of others say don't glass skegs or strakes, and the plans don't call for it, so it's really up to you.

Posted: **Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:32 pm**

cape man wrote:
When I install the strakes and skeg do I just glue them down, coat well with epoxy and then fair or do I need to glass them over?
I glassed my skeg down and then put an alluminum shoe on it after watching other builds and thinking about it.

Lots of others say don't glass skegs or strakes, and the plans don't call for it, so it's really up to you.

If you want the skeg to be part of the boat, glass it in. Otherwise it will be stuck on like a bandaid....IMHO

Richard

Posted: **Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:36 pm**

If you want the skeg to be part of the boat, glass it in. Otherwise it will be stuck on like a bandaid....IMHO

Richard

This is the same response you gave me back in June

Shannon, see the kinda preasure we get from these guys!! Like I said, I'm happy I took their advice and glassed mine down.

Posted: **Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:22 am**

It's always best to glass them down if you can. There have been occassions when they have let loose with only epoxy. It's more work but better safe than sorry.

Tom

Posted: **Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:37 pm**

Thanks for the reply guys. OK Glassing it is.

Posted: **Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:40 pm**

[quote="cape man
Shannon, see the kinda preasure we get from these guys!! Like I said, I'm happy I took their advice and glassed mine down.[/quote]

They won't let us take a single short cut

At this rate my boat will look better than a bought one when I'm finished

You build is looking nice by the way

Posted: **Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:05 am**

At this rate my boat will look better than a bought one when I'm finished

Of course it will! Add to that the fact that as we ride around, we will know every inch of these babies and have the confidence that it was all built right. Saw your other thread on sharpening the edges - if you put a shoe on the skeg, just fill to the edges of it, otherwise use some kind of a dam to get a sharp edge. I used just a putty knife on my transom, and cut the filler from both directions and it came out nice, but the dam idea will probably be easier in the end.

Posted: **Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:12 pm**

Very True Cape Man, I love the fact that I know every little piece of this boat.
I think the dam option is going to be the best bet.

OK now for those who are not wood working challenged, I have a question (for a change

)

I want to install a spray rail similar to Doug Skogman's PH16, but I don't have a clue how to get the wood to bend to be able to follow the curve of the bow

Do you soak the wood to get it to bend or do I cut small slots in the wood to assist the bending? (Is this what is known as Kerfing?)

Installed 3 strakes today, will do the last one and the skeg tomorrow.

Shannon

Posted: **Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:19 pm**

Soaking wood won't help it bend. It will need to be kerfed or steamed if you need to make a serious bend.

Can you post a picture or a link to what you are describing? Most spray rails can be bent without steaming or kerfing (yes, right word) as long as the grain runs straight.

Posted: **Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:52 pm**

Thanks Larry

If you look at this http://dskogman.tripod.com/Spray_Rails.htm
it gives you an idea of what I'm wanting to do. I can't see any cuts in the wood, but my wood certainly doesn't seem happy to bend that much. The strip I am going to use is a bit wider (nearly 2" and about 1" thick at it's thickest point).

Thanks

Posted: **Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:58 pm**

Posted: **Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:25 pm**

BassMunn that spray rail just follows the curve of the boat and does really not need any fancy techniques. Just the curve will dictate will determine where the rail will go. Don't sweat it. It will follow the chine without much trouble.

Tom

Posted: **Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:58 pm**

Thanks for the tips.

The problem I have is that I want to mount the spray rail on the underneath of the chine and not the side, resulting in me trying to bend the wood edge on. I think if I get a narrower piece of wood it should bend fine.

Thanks
Shannon

Posted: **Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:52 pm**

If you want to bend some lumber in a curve, I would kerf it. Why would you want to steam or soak a perfectly dry piece of wood and then try to get a good bond to your hull with epoxy? That is one of the reasons why wet pressure treated lumber is not a good idea.

If you want to steam your wood, make sure that you let it dry before you try to glue it to anything. We steam and soak trim from time to time in our shop. Let the wood dry on a curved jig if you decide to go that route, IMHO

Posted: **Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:37 pm**

I agree with Richard and Tom, steaming is a last resort and that piece of wood doesn't need it. It probably doesn't even need kerfing.

The problem I have is that I want to mount the spray rail on the underneath of the chine and not the side, resulting in me trying to bend the wood edge on. I think if I get a narrower piece of wood it should bend fine.

The rail in the picture is about the same size on all 3 triangular sides. I don't see any problem making it bend to the boat without kerfs. The 2/1 ratio that you have will be tougher to bend for sure. If you use temporary drywall screws and bend it a little at a time, you might can get it to conform. Making it narrower will certainly help. Nothing wrong with kerfs either if that's what it takes to achieve what you want. It will all get filled with epoxy and covered with glass anyway.

Posted: **Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:19 pm**

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll pop into the lumber shop tomorrow to pick up some smaller triangular strips. I think it's time to invest in a table saw, so that I can just cut stuff like this myself

(any excuse for more power tools, hehehe)

Got a bit more done tonight, glued and glassed my skeg in place. Strakes are glued down. I will shape them properly tomorrow and then glass them over. I know it's not wet on wet, but my neighbour would complain if I fired up the sander now

Also tried a small batch of fairing compound as you can see below - I need to get a wider spreader to prevent all the lines. Am I putting this stuff on too thick or does this look about right?

Posted: **Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:43 pm**

Got my spray rail sorted out today

Went to the wood shop and got a nice small triangular piece with a concaved face.

Fitted them to the hull with temporary screws

Then glued them in place with an epoxy resin, micro balloons and silica mix. The glueing surfaces were precoated with epoxy resin.

Got a bit more sanding and shaping to do on the strakes and by tomorrow night I'll shape the spray rail after removing the screws and filling the holes.
A little more sanding just to knock down some really rough areas and then it's time for fairing.

Can't wait. The little area that I did as a test run for the fairing compound came out pretty well, hit it with my newly built fairing board (Idea courtesy of the very helpful members on this forum

) and it's looking pretty darn good.
Methinks I am going to have pretty stiff shoulders by Monday morning

Posted: **Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:59 pm**

Looking good, Bassmun!

time for fairing. Can't wait

Methinks I am going to have pretty stiff shoulders by Monday morning

And Tuesday, and Wednesday, and Thursday...

Posted: **Thu Nov 27, 2008 8:06 pm**

Thanks Ross

My muscles are already getting all stiff just thinking about stretching to sand the keel area - This boat pretty wide

Posted: **Fri Nov 28, 2008 3:21 am**

you're going to need a small scaffold to stand on while your working on those areas.

Posted: **Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:08 am**

You need to extend thespray rails back some more. I would go another 8 ft. on each side. Believe me. You won't be sorry. I wish I had done that on mine. Makes all the diff from getting wet.

Posted: **Fri Nov 28, 2008 3:04 pm**

Ken good catch. I would extend it all the way to the transom if you haven't already Buss. If you don't water will be coming off it at the point you stop it.

Tom

Posted: **Fri Nov 28, 2008 3:11 pm**

All the way to the transom

, so basically you will have a small reverse chine on the boat??

Posted: **Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:44 pm**

egsactly. or however you spell that. The curvature of the trim will cause the water to turn down instead of going out. Will also give you some lift. Check out this. www.smartrails.com. I had them on the front of my ph16. They were free. Just wish I had enough to go all the way back, They are very proud of their prices.

Posted: **Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:47 pm**

My mistake.
www.smartrail.com

Posted: **Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:49 pm**

What the hell was that? Maybe first one was correct.

Posted: **Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:49 pm**

Posted: **Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:52 pm**

Thats it. www.thesmartrail.com

Posted: **Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:57 pm**

Posted: **Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:19 pm**

I think Ken used the $589 kit on his boat.

Posted: **Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:43 am**

Yes Bussman a nice reverse chine that will throw the water down, provide some additional control and some addition lift. You win all the way around.

Tom

Posted: **Sat Nov 29, 2008 6:26 am**

Best part of my kit was it was free. Ol Woody is gone now.The new owner really loves it. Gonna miss it.

Posted: **Sat Nov 29, 2008 6:15 pm**

Thanks Ken and Tom.
I'm in the process of installing a full length reverse chine, as soon as it's done I'll take some pics and post them.
Glad you guys helped me catch this before it was too late to change.

Posted: **Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:44 pm**

Spent most of yesterday just looking at the boat and thinking about what, where, who and how much and because it was 80 degrees with incredibly high humidity I was feeling lazy

, OK I did do a bit of sanding.
Jumped up this morning ready to do the reverse chine and then get really stuck into the fairing. Went outside and walked into 60 degree temps, raining and blowing like mad, Huh??
So I got the reverse chines fitted, but because it was cool today my epoxy has taken ages to harden, so I couldn't remove the locating screws to sand or glass the chines over.
My fairing compound (Amfill) states that I must not mix if the temp is 59 or lower so I decided to not take the chance.

Spent the last 3 hours cleaning my garage (I've had enough of triping over things

)

OK here are the pics of the reverse chine, still to be sanded and glassed over. I got them to line up near perfectly to the angle of the hull sides.

What do you guys think of the inside angle (hull bottom)? Too much or does it look right?

Posted: **Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:32 am**

Sure looks good to me. Nice work

Posted: **Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:12 am**

Yep, looks good to me also!

Tom

Posted: **Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:29 pm**

The inside chine should be around four ft. The secondary about 3'. I would have put a back cut at 45 degree angle from the high side back 45 deg. This allows a smooth transition and makes it easier to fair out. Kind of late right now. I am still looking for the pictures to send you.

Posted: **Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:46 pm**

So is this the same style of spray rail that I should use for my PH22?

And no, that's not meant as a thread hijack

Posted: **Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:18 pm**

Larry and TomW, Thanks for the comments

It's quite a boost coming from boat builders such as yourselves.

Ken, I wasn't sure what length to make the strakes and 6ft looked OK.
The inside ones are 6ft and the outer ones are 5 1/2ft, I wish I had made the outer ones 5ft, but as you say it's a bit late now.
Why should they be shorter? If it's to limit hull slap I'm not too worried about it as this will be more of a bass boat than flats boat and I think my reverse Chine will cause more slap the way I have installed it now than the strakes?
The angle you are talking about on the strakes, I'm not sure if I get what you mean, but if you are talking about the sharp angle the strakes take down to the hull they are not 90 degrees. They are the same as the reverse chine and follow the same angle as the hull sides. I do still have to glass them over and then fair them so I will probably loose some of the angle.

Didn't do much tonight, removed the screws holding the chine in place while the glue was drying, overdrilled and filled the holes with epoxy slurry.
Also did the transom edge using some polystyrene sheets I had as a dam to build up the edge. I had to use a bit of packing tape to keep the sheets straight as they were flexing a bit too much. Seemed to work OK, but I'll find out in the morning when I take them off.

I will glass the strakes and chine over tomorrow and then I can finally get back to the fairing

Posted: **Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:33 pm**

tobolamr wrote:So is this the same style of spray rail that I should use for my PH22?

And no, that's not meant as a thread hijack

Not sure if you should be asking me, this is my first boat.
But after Ken made the suggestion to do this I did a bit of scratching around. I found that all 3 of the major US Bass boats (Tri...; Ran...; Ske....) all have reverse chines as do some of their flats and bay boats.
I also contacted the guy that built my old bass boat as we are on good terms (probably because he is trying to sell me a Suzuki

). He also agreed that I should put it on, he said that apart from limiting the spray, it would increase lift and improve handling as Ken and TomW stated above.
The other added bonus he said is that it will help to decrease chine walking (if you're going that fast).
I can't seem to find any Phantom that has it on though, so we will have to wait and see.

Now that it's on, I'm very happy that it was suggested and that I did it, It just looks right

Boat Builder Central - Builder Forums

BassMunn's PH16 - SPLASHED!!!!

BassMunn's PH16 - SPLASHED!!!!