Jimzee: A C12 Tribute

To help other builders, please list the boat you are building in the Thread Subject -- and to conserve space, please limit your posting to one thread per boat.

Please feel free to use the gallery to display multiple images of your progress.
ks8
* Bateau Builder *
* Bateau Builder *
Posts: 8403
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 1:00 am
Location: NC USA
Location: Now a much longer sail to Tampa Florida! Back to NC, Youngsville FM05tw

Post by ks8 »

Have fun working it out. Personally, I'd try and work out a way to do it flat and level, for a cleaner lamination, but the main thing is that all is true as it cures. I found that it is very difficult to tell such things because of the curves of boats, and more difficult if it is on its side. It wasn't that difficult to setup the ladder type of support to shimmy out on a foot or two, and I think the CV16 has a wider beam than the C12. I found the support issue over the work to be a less stressful thing to deal with than whether or not the hull shifted on me without me being aware of it.

Either way, enjoy. :D

swidm
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:15 am
Location: Georgia

Post by swidm »

That C12 sure is looking good! Sorry I didn't check in earlier though you are doing just fine without my 2 cents. In fact, you are doing better than I did since I tried to glass the plywood together but ended up having to retrofit butblocks because my joints wouldn't take the bend. Also, love the look of the Okume though I still think it would be worth it to glass the exterior of the hull rather than just epoxying it...though you might have already done that and I just can't tell from the pictures.

A few bits of advice for what it is worth. On taping seams I do it a bit different than is suggested here. I usually roll my fiberglass tape and dip it into the epoxy squeezing it several times to work the epoxy through. Then I unroll it out of the pot using two fingers to squeegee out the excess epoxy. I then lay the completely whetted tape on the seam. This is much quicker and leads to less drips when you get used to it. It is problematic in the fibers that come off the tape. I tend to scrape them off my gloved hands on a handy piece of scrap. Also, I trim the rough edges of the tape down with a sharp chisel before sanding.

Now, I didn't read the instructions (what else is new?) and went ahead and stitched and glued the boat like I learned which meant I started with the inside seams first then did the outside seams. From the sounds of it (I could be mistaken) you did the outside seams first. Is this correct? Either way, you do have to be concerned about taking the boat out of square when taping the inside seams. Even the rubrails could have a negative effect if they don't bend similar ways. My advice would be to work with the boat flat and in a cradle made to match the shape of the boat. If you look in my gallery at the boatshow pictures you might see the collapsible cradle I used with my boat. I was able to reach and do the middle seam just fine without having to use a ladder though my back did tourture me for a little while afterwards.

My proceedure for fillets and taping the inside of the boat may be a bit different as well and was developed after building the c12, btw. Common advice is to do fillets with thickened epoxy spreading them as best as possible (plastic spoons work well) then go back and sand before applying the tape. What I found out is you do the fillets and then tape while the fillets are still wet and malliable. Put dry tape (not wetted out) on top of the thickened epoxy fillets and then shape the whole thing. Eliminates the problem of the thickened epoxy sticking to your gloves and makes for a nice curve. Then wet out the tape as needed using your gloved hands. This method eliminates sanding (yeah) and makes everything go very quickly. The downside is the speed which has you scrambling around like crazy trying to get things done before the epoxy goes off. Some slow hardener and doing the hull in stages does help. I did all the the fillets and seams on my 12' dory in about 2 hours (including prep and cleanup) and for 2 mouseboats (8' prams) in about 4 hours using this method. I later used thickened epoxy and smoothed with my gloved hand to fill in the weave.

I think you will be very happy with your choice to build a C12!

Biker B.O.B.
Active Poster
Active Poster
Posts: 344
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:26 pm
Location: Floral City, FL

Post by Biker B.O.B. »

Thanks for the compliments and suggestions, ks8 & swidm.

There are a bunch of things to respond to. But let me start with an update. I checked widths at frames, removed the frames, added one spreader, measured and leveled repeatedly, and taped the starbord chine with both layers of 12 oz. biaxial tape. I used Shine's method of wet on wet (fillet and both layers of tape) using a chip brush and wet it out perfectly, and with less hassle than the outside. I ran out of time, or else I would have completed the port chine too.

By removing the frames I accomplished a few different goals. The sheer lines are smoother when viewed along the length of the boat, one steady arc and no turns. The beam is within 1/2 inch of what it was with the frames in place. I was able to tape the chines with one continuous piece of tape instead of shorter sections between frames. And, I was able to partialy correct a mistake I made when taping the outside seams.

I've leveled and measured to make things as correct as possible before this seam cures. There is not twist, and the diagonals are within 1/8th of an inch; and at 147 inches, 1/8th sounds good.

The ladder idea sounds interesting, but there is no room in my garage. If I built it, I couldn't get past it. I've got about 24" of room on each side of the boat except the bow, which is within 12" of the door (but that can be opened). Maybe once I get my workshop built.

But wait... there's more. 8O :D

I intent to cover the bottom with a sheet of 6 oz. 'glass, but I want to get all the seams completed first. I'll also complete the port chine, transom and bow seams, install the frames, tape them to the hull, and tape what I can reach of the keel seam before I try to tip the boat to reach the middle of the keel seam.

:? But now that I think about it. Most if what I have trouble reaching will get cut out to make room for the centerboard trunk. So, why do it?

ks8
* Bateau Builder *
* Bateau Builder *
Posts: 8403
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 1:00 am
Location: NC USA
Location: Now a much longer sail to Tampa Florida! Back to NC, Youngsville FM05tw

Post by ks8 »

I suggest taping the middle even though it will be partially cut out later. Little effort, and it will add much strength while shifting the hull about, until you actually cut the section out. :)

swidm
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:15 am
Location: Georgia

Post by swidm »

Thinking about it, I kinda agree about not doing the middle section where the trunk goes. The rest of the taped seams as well as the tape on the outside should be more than enough to hold the boat rigid. As for the frames, I cut mine down a bit when I was constructing the boat. I made them both shorter and cut out material in the middle.

Biker B.O.B.
Active Poster
Active Poster
Posts: 344
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:26 pm
Location: Floral City, FL

Post by Biker B.O.B. »

Help me decide… Daggerboard or Centerboard?

Sometimes it just helps to talk things through. So, here are a few of my thoughts.

-This will be a family boat, extended family; and guests. Possibly be used more for fishing than sailing.
-There are already two old (20+ years old) boats at the house, a leaky aluminum jon boat and a fiberglass flat bottom “skiff.â€

ks8
* Bateau Builder *
* Bateau Builder *
Posts: 8403
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 1:00 am
Location: NC USA
Location: Now a much longer sail to Tampa Florida! Back to NC, Youngsville FM05tw

Post by ks8 »

Centerboard will let you adjust helm somewhat (as in weather or lee helm since you can adjust the CLR (center of lateral resistance)), and be very forgiving on bumps, but the slot will cause more drag (that can be minimized), and you will lose real estate in the cockpit. Helm can be adjusted with sail trim also or even by shifting your weight to change the hull shape that is mostly in the water, and a daggerboard is less drag and takes up less space, and easy to haul up or out, and easier to stow and swap in a spare. I don't think it is a clear thing to say that a CB helps you sail better than a DB.

But...

I'm glad I went with a CB for bump tolerance, for when others borrow the boat, and the CB loss of real estate should also discourage overloading when borrowed, and gives me something to lean on with my feet since I built it plenty strong. And the CV16 design has it also be the mount for the main sheet block. Overall I'm glad its a CB and not a DB. A clean slot finish was a challenge since it is 3 or 4 times longer with a CB. I did however add a *slot on top* modification for cleaning, or for an emergency DB if the CB snaps without warning while scooting the coast.

The more I think about it, the more ideas I have for the next one. :lol:

The DB may sail better, and certainly be easier to build. I'm glad for the CB none the less.... bump... scrape... running over someone's anchor rode... or any manner of flotsam or jetsam. A grounding of a DB can have it pop up out of the hull... or break... or... let's not talk about the other possibilities. I like the CB. If I went for a performance boat that wasn't for relaxing cruising, and always for very safe water, I'd probably go DB and probably always build the DB to snap before the trunk or hull, and shape the forward part of the bottom of the DB to encourage it kicking up into the slot rather than directing all the energy aft, stressing the board, trunk and hull to possible failure of one or more of those structures. Hope that helps. :)

Biker B.O.B.
Active Poster
Active Poster
Posts: 344
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:26 pm
Location: Floral City, FL

Post by Biker B.O.B. »

ks8.

Lots of great info, thanks.

I know that I didn't give all the details about how it will be sailed, where and by whom; but all your suggestions lean heavily towards a DB for my applications. It will be sailed almost exclusively on a deep (for FL), fresh water lake. The only obstacle I have to worry about running the DB into is the sandy bottom, and I should know when I'm getting close to that.

I'll use this boat for what I call sport-pleasure. I want it to go fast, but I won't be racing anybody since it will be the only sailboat on the lake. If I feel like I'm going fast, I'll have a lot of fun. :D

ks8
* Bateau Builder *
* Bateau Builder *
Posts: 8403
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 1:00 am
Location: NC USA
Location: Now a much longer sail to Tampa Florida! Back to NC, Youngsville FM05tw

Post by ks8 »

Biker B.O.B. wrote:I want it to go fast, but I won't be racing anybody since it will be the only sailboat on the lake.
Not yet anyway, until someone else builds one to race you, when you show them how easy it is to build. :)

Biker B.O.B.
Active Poster
Active Poster
Posts: 344
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:26 pm
Location: Floral City, FL

Post by Biker B.O.B. »

ks8 wrote:Not yet anyway, until someone else builds one to race you, when you show them how easy it is to build. :)
I'll be the one to build that second sailboat; if someone else wants to sail too. Everybody I talk to is amazed that I build my own boats. They all state that they would never attmept it, no matter how much I tell that that it's pretty easy.

I've got the boat builders virus. After this is the rowboat. Then there's a list that I haven't set priorities to yet. A boat to keep at my house (sail or power, or human powered; don't know yet), a strip plank canoe or kayak, a small 50's style runabout, a mini speedboat or hydroplane, and a pocket cruiser. Too many options. :help:

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests