Page 1 of 1

Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:15 pm
by MarkOrge
Hello all. I was going to wait until Christmas when I am certain Santa is bringing plans from Bateau, but I have also been asking a lot of questions so what the heck.

I still have not made a final decision on core material, as budget is the constraint. Specifically, I have all the Nidacore I need for the flat panels, but as we now know that is a poor choice for hull. I can get any of Nida's products at a significant discount so I am leaning towards their version of Diviylcell/Klegcel etc. which is a PET foam. I checked out that University study that was referenced and although some of the foams are a little stronger then others, I am confident a good layup and adequate schedule will yield a decent boat. I'll be vacuum bagging wherever possible and if in doubt, will add cloth.

I already have a fairly new Evinrude 115. I'll be using a hydraulic jack plate as I already have one through my Bass Club, and adding Baystar hydraulic steering too. I have a fuel tank too but hope to get one that fits under the sole.

I still have not made a final decision on steering stakes/skeg but am leaning towards skg only to keep fairing simple. I'll for sure run a reverse chine that will continue to the front to double as a spray rail.

I also plan to build a mold to lay up the entire top, and flare the top of the sheers when I lay up the hull, then the two can simply laminate together, as well as along the tops of the bulkheads and other tops of compartments that will serve as structural members/top support. With a little width up front it will act like an extra spray rail as well. Also, using a mold for the top will allow me to have the hatch openings lowered and contoured for waterproofing and provide a nice flat finished surface once hatches are in. I'll add horizontal sections across the tops of the Nida bulkheads and other vertical support surfaces as they show in their manual so as to get a really solid support for the top and a strong structure (you'll see when the pictures come out) Looks kind of like an i-beam and provides lots of surface to bond the top to. I did this on my previous rebuild and it's really solid.

I plan to make the cockpit smaller with double console (bass boat) and then pretty it up with the Livorsi bling, Wise bass boat bench seating, electronics, graphics etc. If I can manage 80 -100 hours a month I may be able to get her in for this summer....but plan B is to use the old boat so as to not rush - I really want to get a nice finish.

Anyway, this is already too long. Many thanks to Jacques, Shine, Tom, Bassmunn, and the rest of the gang - I have been skulking on this site for months and have learned a lot.

Can anyone point me to the page on how to load up images in this field? Any other input is welcome, Merry Christmas everyone!

Mark

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:53 pm
by TomW
Mark there are two ways to do it one is to upload to the Gallery here in which case the instructions are here. http://gallery.bateau2.com/faq.php#How_ ... oad_a_file

To place a picture in a thread http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8718

If you have any questions ask.

Tom

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:08 pm
by MarkOrge
Thanks Tom !

Draft deck plan below. The light grey is stuff under the deck, except the outline which is hte approx outline of the hull, the outer darker line representing the overhang. It's a little busy but a start....

http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userp ... c_2009.JPG

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:47 pm
by TomW
A little small Mark, let's try this http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userp ... c_2009.JPG

Tom

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:36 pm
by Joe H
Nice Layout Mark!

Joe H

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:48 pm
by tech_support
To build this all one-off from foam core is one serious project. It looks like you have about 17 different hatches. 8O It can definitely be done, but with all these parts being custom made most ly from templates it goin to take at least double the hours of a standard PH18

With that much power I would absolutely have chines/lifting strakes on the bottom, they will help to reduce the chance of chine walking as you go faster. The "flat" portion of of these chines provide stability. IF you do not have them, the amount of chine in the water as you go faster get smaller, and at the very high speeds, there is very little hull in the water and almost no chine in the water (imagine the shape of the wetted portion of the hull as your looking up from the bottom of the lake as boat flys over you at 50 mph) with no or very little chine in the water, the hull acts like a "teater totter", its very unstable and prone to violently increasing oscillations - chine walking

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:13 am
by MarkOrge
Thanks Shine! I know I am in for a lot of work. If I need to, I will take two winters to do it. The reason you see multiple hatches instead fo a few large ones is that between them will be the bulkheads and other vertical supports, all laminated to the underside of the deck. In the end, I'll have more then what the plans call for and although it may ad a little weight, it will also contrinbute to stiffness to support my 250 belly jumping up and down when I slam a 6 pound smallie :D

(NOTE - I changed this paragraph recently so as to not mislead anyone) I will be using all Divinycell H80 per layout schedule. I'll use nida core only on non-structural flat pieces.

Strakes - I have got some advice in past on adding steering strakes instead of lifting strakes - did you mean to say lifting strakes? It looks like the way to go is with using those aluminum angle iron things from Home Depot for molds to get a nice triangle to epoxy to the bottom after fairing. So from all the feedback so far how does this sound:

No pad.
Reverse chines, 1" X 1" but adhered so that the angle is on the "inside" and the surface on the outside runs up flush with the sides of the boat (very sharp but effective yes?)
4 strakes; molded with structural resin as mentioned above but dimesionally basically a 1" X 1" ripped lengthwise, spaced equally between keel and chine, running all the way to the transom from about 8' forward, sharp and flush at the transom but a nice sharp entry angle at the front. Skeg - 1" X 1" from about 8' forward but ending 12" from the transom with a nice taper. Will this for sure provide "clean water" to the prop? Sharp or rounded edges?

Thanks everyone, only a couple weeks ot go until we start cutting and mixing!!

Cheers

Mark

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:05 am
by MarkOrge
What is the bonding strength of a lay up of wet resin and glass against "virgin" wood or foam or other wet glass/epoxy as opposed to a fresh lay up against say week old grinded/sanded layup ?

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:49 pm
by Bluefish2
Mark,
the site owners did a number of tests on the bond strength. Try doing a search for it. But in short the wood will give out long before the fibreglass /epoxy will once cured. Any number of people have tried this, myself included, to see how strong the glass is verses wood. I have dropped on rocks with these boats (due to large wakes removing water over the unseen rocks) and the boat did not even notice it.
BF2

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:06 am
by TomW
Mark while it is preferable to have a chemical bond of a less than 24hr wait time. There is only a marginal loss of strength in a mechanical bond when you have to wait and sand say a week later. You do what you can do and don't worry about the other. :D If I had to guess probably 99% of the boats built have at least some mechanical bonds somewhere in there builds.

Tom

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:18 pm
by MarkOrge
Thanks Tom.

Next question; I did a search on "how to transfer plans to the wood" and found the great idea of using the nails and pvp pipe for the curves, but I have found another dilmena. My plans for don't seem to have the total length for the stringers, but of course do have the one full sized sheet for the first 6 or 8 feet. How do I transfer these lines to the wood for the molds? I can't cut the shapes out because they have other lines for subsequent stringer sections overlapping.

Also, I saw on one fo the posts a neat trick using some aluminum "angle iron" shaped channel from Home Depot for a mold to make the spray rail and/or strakes. Would this be sufficient if placed in the right orientation for the reverse chine?

I am leaning towards just reverse chine and skeg to keep the hull simple to fair and finish, my guessing is I won't loose much in the way of cornering. One can always just slow down/trim down a little.

Thoughts?

Thanks again everyone!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:24 pm
by SmokyMountain
Next question; I did a search on "how to transfer plans to the wood" and found the great idea of using the nails and pvp pipe for the curves, but I have found another dilmena. My plans for don't seem to have the total length for the stringers, but of course do have the one full sized sheet for the first 6 or 8 feet. How do I transfer these lines to the wood for the molds? I can't cut the shapes out because they have other lines for subsequent stringer sections overlapping.
Mark,

I just got finished cutting everything out so it's fresh on my mind. I believe you are talking about the insider stringer dimension from bulkhead "A" to the tip. I scaled off the plans (they are almost to scale - one tic off) and got 9 1/4". I've stitched the boat and it seems to work well. Also, other pages may have the dimensions you are looking for. Another thing to think about are the side panels and bottom panels. The offset dimensions from the edge of plywood is based of a 4'x8' piece of plywood. The Okoume is a couple of inched wider and longer. On the bottom panels, I measured everything from one side, thus automatically compensating for the difference in width. Also, I found it easier to draw the panels once and cut both at the same time. They are exactly the same (just make sure you measure twice and cut once :lol: )

I used a 3/4" pvc as a baton and it work well. You will need to get two 10 ft pieces with a coupling for the bigger panels.


Andrew

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:57 pm
by BassMunn
Each measurement on your stringer drawing is 24" apart (or 610mm) along the length, just add them up.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:03 pm
by MarkOrge
Next rookie question: when working with foam, say on a part like a stringer where you need to "round off" the corners to wrap the glass around, can one use a router or will that burn/melt the edge of the foam?

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:26 pm
by tech_support
router will cut the divinycell foam just fine without melting. The more dense foams can have this issue, but we cut divinycell foam with our CNC router and its not even close to melting. I have also rounded over some foam parts with a normal hand held router with no issues. Nida core honeycomb will have some melting issues, but its polyethylene plastic so you would expect as much.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:45 pm
by MarkOrge
Well we finally got started. We built the "strong back" or at least the first 2/3 of it. No resin yet, my brother in law kicked in some good lumber for framing, even if they had a little concrete on them (he has a construction company)

First, this structure will be a surface to do some familiarization on vacuum bagging, as is recommended. I'll be starting with some naked nidacore panels that will do fine for anything flat.

It will then get extended and be the start of the deck mold. I'll post some details from 'cadd later.

Next it will get lowered and be the "strong back".

Once the hull is done it, can go on the trailer, and by then it will be next fall and we can finish off through the winter.

Sorry of this sounds confusing, I have it straight on my head. I have been building this over 100 times a month in my sleep.

Must be a virus I got from this website. :D

Got to tend to the buzzard on the Q, thanks to all of you that inspire us newbie’s !


Image

Image

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:52 pm
by MarkOrge
One question: we have a solid frame that the 3/4" MDF is on, but for now I have only screwed down the perimiters. I am wondering if I should screw the middles or allow the sheet to float on the 2 X 4's - I have them on 12" centers for the frame, over double 2 X 6's for the strongback, and we looked at each 2 X 4 for crowns etc as we built. My concern is that if I start screwing the MDF up and down all the 2 X 4's I will create "dimples" or wallows by tightening down an already good surface to a less then perfect 2 X 4.

Of course I am going to work on the seams, a lifetime ago I used to be in flooring.....

Thoughts ?

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:25 pm
by MarkOrge
For a mold with smooth MDF as a base.

My guess is seal, sand smooth any imperfections, seal again, of finish is good spray on a good layer of pva (partall) and good to go? Risks? Two layers pva? Roll it on or spray? It will be a one time throw away mold.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:03 am
by tech_support
if your going to be bagging on the table, it should be as flat as reasonably possible. I used table top epoxy on our table - it FLAT. But for one boat, i would just run my straight edge around it to make sure there are no warps. You need to coat it with something hard, then sand/polish it smooth. Then you have something to wax and/or use PVA on. I think if it were myself, i would just bag over plastic, and fair out the minor blemishes. The investment in a perfect table needs to be amortized, of course if you get BBV bad then this could be a good idea :)

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:53 pm
by MarkOrge
Thanks Joel. I did the seams and screww holes and went around with my straightedge and she is within a hair of perfect. I am going to go with bagging on plastic as the parts are all flat/non finished ones like sole and bulkheads. when I get to the deck there will be very little that shows due to all the hatch and drain contours.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:45 pm
by MarkOrge
Guys, I saw mention somewhere of the diminished need for spashwell with the use of jackplates. I see some that have eliminated the well altogether like Bassmun's. What is the cost/risk of this? I was planning on making my mold to come out similiar to his.

Mark

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:43 am
by TomW
As long as you have room to tilt the motor with the jackplate a splashwell isn't needed. However you still need the framing in some way to provide the strength for the transom. You can use the compartment for a livewell or storage or something else. Take a good look at how Bussman used his.

Tom

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:23 am
by tech_support
you have to know the motor cowling size. You can estimate this pretty closely by making a scaled drawing.

Joel

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:13 pm
by MarkOrge
Say, how does one determine the weight distribution?

This is going to be a bassboat with a jack plate. As someone pointed out earlier, I'll need to offset effects of the jackplate, what about trolling motor batteries? These are the major differences. The trolling motor itself is at the front and body weight is forward of the normal center console seating by about 18". The major decision left is where the fuel goes. Speaking of which, does everyone ever venture to put the tank below decks? This sounds risky as you would be doing some major cutting and subsequent repairs if you ever had to get it out. There is a difference between "access" and "remove-ability".

Thoughts? Is there a formula for accounting for all the pounds and where they reside? (that would not be so tough)

Progress: flat panels (bulkheads) are almost done and I am ready to get stringers laid up, hopefully this weekend. Then I'll have something worth sending pictures of.

Congradulations to all the other builders, I have been regularly skulking the progress all summer....mostly the PH18's of course....

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:42 pm
by MarkOrge
http://gallery.bateau2.com/displayimage.php?pos=-33399

Here is a link to a .pdf that shows all kinds of detail (likely too much) that may help with weight distribution answers....the deck looks particularly cluttered as it has hatch drains, lids, etc. all drawn in (will come in handy shortly when I start the deck mold)

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:01 pm
by MarkOrge
Anyone?

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:22 pm
by gstanfield
Your drawing is nice and while I don't have a clue about how exactly to balance it I would imagine that you'll need more weight foward like moving the 24V battery bank up front. Without knowing the boat it looks like too much heavy stuff int he back and not much weight up front at all.

George

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:46 am
by flyfishingmonk
Hi Mark,

I'm now following your thread and am building a PH18 down here in TX. I look forward to conversing with you on your thread.

I havent looked at you drawing yet but can say I have talked this over with others and I'm starting with my trolling motor batteries under the center console. I will move them under the front deck for ballast if necessary. Under my front deck will be two 13 gallon tanks as well, so I'll have to separate them. My boat will have the trolling motor (2 actually) mounted to the trim tabs.

I say all this to basically state that I am trying to evenly distribute out the weight.

Casey

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:05 am
by TomW
Hi Mark missed your original question. First assume that the boat is balanced as drawn by Jacques with the specified motor on. I think this is a 90HP. Then take a measurement along the designed water line. Again I believe this is 6". Now from the transom mutiply along this line 42% of the overall waterline and mark it. That will be the Longitudinal Center of Gravity.

Now let's say you move the motor back 6" from where it is on a Jackplate. 6" or .5' times the weight of the engine moves the LGC back 400 x .5 or 200 lbs. That means that you must move 200 lbs forward of the LGC so say the trolling motor weighs 70 lbs and it is 10' forward of the LGC that is 700lbs. So you must move some weight back. So now you have 500lbs to counter balance. So you put your bait tank in the rear which weighs 200lbs 3' behind the LGC and you are now within 100lbs of being balanced so you put the batteries in the console and your totally balanced.

I am being a little silly here as it will never work out quite that well but if you can get within a 100-150lbs your doing good.

The best thing to do is to do a spread sheet. I did one when I took the C17 from the cabin to an open boat and it is the way Jacques does when he designs a new boat. But it works, has since my first design courses in the 70's and how Jacques was taught and still works now.

As far as the gas tank buy a quality aluminum one that you can put under the console and forget about. These folks will build you a tank that fits your area and ship it to you! It is coated and ready to install. http://www.speedytanks.com/ My tank will fit under the sole but the fittings will be in an enclose area under the console and seat above the sole. The fuel filter/shut off, fuel sensor, and pump to the engine will actually be under the seat.

Tom

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:04 am
by MarkOrge
Thanks you guys!

Tom, not silly at all - that is EXACTLY what I was looking for. I was at a loss as to how to calculate balancing. :D

Casey - what part of Texas are you in? My head office is in Austin and I have to be there at least 3 or 4 times a year, usually all week.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:07 am
by flyfishingmonk
Mark,

I'm a couple of hours from Austin. I'm in North Dallas. Ever make it further north into the Dallas/Ft.Worth Meto? It would be great to grab a coffee and compare notes. Or maybe some place in between.

Casey

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:44 pm
by MarkOrge
That may be a challenge but I could look at staying over a Friday one time or coming a day early. We generally fill up the days and nights when our department meets from all over North America in Austin, so 2 hours round trip could be tough. By the end of the week I usually can't wait to get back to my wife & daughter....and the garage of course!!

I'll let you know, one of these times I am going to bring them down at the end of the week then we can tour around.

Cheers, will port pics Sunday night of this weekends layups/cutting etc.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:06 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Mark,

Sounds great. Maybe something will work out.

God Bless,

Casey

PH18 splash well dimensions

Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:59 pm
by MarkOrge
OK, it may be pre-mature aging or work related stress, but I just cannot find anywhere in my plans the dimensions to those two little "triangles" that form the sides of the transom well.

:help:

Re: PH18 splash well dimensions

Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:12 pm
by TomW
Mark list the page and layout of what your looking for. It will help us help you. :wink:

Tom

Re: PH18 splash well dimensions

Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:48 pm
by MarkOrge
Thanks Tom.

On the bottom left of D209/3 it shows them in the nesting diagram.

That having been said, all I REALLY need is the depth of the splash well as shown via dotted line on the bottom left of B209/6 (transom details)

I checked the list of drawings and I have them all, I just can't find this dimension.

Mark

Re: PH18 splash well dimensions

Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:32 pm
by TomW
Mark there should be a pattern on one of the pages labeled as the motorwell sides. Then there will be a pattern showing the top of the motorwell. The motorwell does not have a bottom and extends to the bottom of the hull. The motorwell top will extend up from about 5" below the transom top to the next frame.

Tom

Re: PH18 splash well dimensions

Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:56 pm
by MarkOrge
That sounds about right. Perhpas my phrasing "bottom" was not the right choice of words. What I was after, is say you had no motor on the transom, you walked up to the back of the boat and measured from the top of the transom, to where you tape would stop, say the bottom of the splash weel drain holes, it sounds like that is about 5". The transom right there is already lowered down a few inches, it is from that top surface down I am trying to find. Another way of putting it, is if you stopped the boat suddenly, and the motor well filled up from backwash (like on a Triton) how deep would the water be at the back against the top engine/jackplate bolts before it drained out.

I hope I am not making this worse....

I owe you Tom (as usual)

Re: PH18 splash well dimensions

Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:04 pm
by SmokyMountain
OK, it may be pre-mature aging or work related stress, but I just cannot find anywhere in my plans the dimensions to those two little "triangles" that form the sides of the transom well.
Mark,

My plans do not have them either.... I think you design them as you see fit.

Andrew

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:15 am
by MarkOrge
:help: I did a test panel with 12 oz 45/45 and 10 oz WR over a club sandwhich of double 1/2" Nidacore. The WR peeled right off !!! There was resistance, but I managed to peel it all almost in one piece !!!

I thought it may have been due to a dry layup or no pressure to bond, so I tried another panel and made it much wetter, as well as placed a sheet of mdf on it with plastic underneath and batteries on top. It was a little better, but if I tug hard enough, I can pull the 10 oz WR off of the 12 oz 45/45. the 45/45 seems to be bnonded to the Nidacore OK, but also, see the picture showing where the edges of the 12 oz pulled up from the skil saw blade when I cleaned the edges up. You can grab one of these and pull them off in strips like birch bark. Now, yes I was using polyester resin for practice, but that can't be the only reason, boats have been made from cheap resin for years (yes I'll be using epoxy for the boat but not for things like molds and other non styructural/critical items)

What is up ??

Image

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:36 am
by TomW
Mark ask your question up in the Fiberglass, Resin and Materials Forum, you'll get a response from Shine sooner than down here.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:37 am
by flyfishingmonk
Mark,

How is the build coming?

Casey

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:30 pm
by MarkOrge
Thanks Casey. My Mother suddenly ended up in the hospital with what has turned out to be 2 brain tumors so visiting her and spending time playing cards etc. has trumped boat progress over the last month. This should all settle down as soon as she can get a slot for surgery.

I hope to start the deck mold in the next couple weeks and once that is sanded/sealed/one huge layup or two done then I can start the hull. I'll have some good pictures once there is something to post other than flat panels...

In the mean time I am skulking away building vicariously through the other posts! It is really cool to see all the different projects on the go.

It's cold up here right now...can't wait to see the gas bill for that heater running all the time in the garage! When my wife asks I refer to this as 'the cost of production'

Cheers, and Merry Christmas !!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:23 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Mark,

I'll keep your mother in my prayers. Thanks for the update. Looking forward to your next post. Have a great Christmas.

Sincerely,

Casey

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:06 pm
by TomW
Mark good luck to your mother and family, I'll keep you in our prayers.

Tom

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:46 pm
by MarkOrge
Casey, Tom, thanks for the kind words and prayers.

Mom has moved on now, but she is definitely in Heaven. She will be missed to say the least.

I’ll point out and shift the focus a but by telling you she was the one that went “halfers" on that new Evinrude 115 a couple years ago as she knew I would pull her grandchildren on tubes all day, just like she did when I was a kid. She also knew she would enjoy rides, then, of course, there is my fishing problem…. so it's time to get the PH18 going again.

Stand by for pix...

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:54 pm
by MarkOrge
Extending the 'layup table" to become the "deck mold" platform

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:57 pm
by MarkOrge
"Joists" leveled out, 3?4" MDF surface is on and level, cutting down a rough outward bow contour so we can get around it in the garage!

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:00 pm
by MarkOrge
The first step from surface to mold - gunnels going on, view from aft.

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:03 pm
by MarkOrge
Same as last picture but viewed from the bow...and...picked up the odd parts that form the drain channel contours for the mold from the CNC shop today...will have pix Sunday night :D

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:10 pm
by Steven
Sorry for your loss, Mark. Glad to hear she is at peace.


I'll be following your build. Great to see different techniques documented.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:02 pm
by tobolamr
Mark,

My prayers are with you, not only for your Mother, but also for your entire family. And your build! Please keep the pics coming! I can't wait to see another Phantom hit the water! :lol:

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:24 pm
by MarkOrge
This may be a better image of the deck plan, it will help make sense of the next few pictures.

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:28 pm
by MarkOrge
Here is the sectional drawing showing how the two levels of MDF work - imagine it upside down and you have the mold contours....


Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:32 pm
by MarkOrge
Gluing the first piece....

Image

Front deck ready to router the edges and fillet the corners...

Image

Sorry for the lousy picture, cell phone is all I have with me tonight...rear deak and start of the splash well w/hatch...

Image

Best shot I could get of the entire deck. I still have to do the step/coller hatch and the verticals for the cockpit.

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:10 am
by flyfishingmonk
Mark fans need more updates!!!! :lol:

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:55 am
by MarkOrge
Fans? Wow thanks, that's a compliment from this crowd for sure!

I'll have pics and news for y'all tonight and tomorrow, just trying to figure out how to hook a vacuum up to my router - that MDF really gives off a lot of nasty powder when you run the tools, especially the router - like throwing a bag of flour in the air but much less healthy I am sure!

Cheers all, talk to you soon,

Markus

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:07 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I look forward to seeing them. Don't breath in to much junk!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:13 pm
by MarkOrge
So over the last week I got the "walls" up that form the cockpit sides/back etc. then had to do a lot of head scratching to put the splashwell together. It will be 7" deep from the top surface of the deck - the plans do not give this one dimension but it should be fine. Before I glue it to the mold I'll check motor mount dims on another transom to be sure I am OK.

Today I got all the "outside" edges routered. Most of this was drain channel. Next is filler and filleting the inside corners.

Poor man's dust collector:

Image

Rear deck and splashwell:

Image

Image

This is the "step" up to the front deck that will also be a cooler/baitwell:

Image

View from the bow:

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:17 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Very cool! This is gonna be one slick boat!

I'm diggin' that dust collector.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:45 pm
by MarkOrge
Well, after another unfortunate distraction I am back at it and once again committed.
Major PITA - I want the hingers recessed into the deck so everything is flush - had to cut all teh little peices to match the contour:

Image

I am going with Taco pn# H23-0158, Southco makes what appears to be the identical.

Image

Material arrived for the soon to be ready deck and rest of the boat..... I get a deal on my stuff as my wife works for a Canadian distributor.... here is 6 out of 7 5 gallon kits. Still a whack 'O' $$

I guess this is about where we know we are committed....although I never had a doubt....

Image

7 out of 7 and the brand in case you are curious - supposed to be up there with East or West system for quality. I had this verified by a local manufacturer...

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:50 pm
by MarkOrge
Here is the material for the mold prep - sealer, base and finish primer (high gloss not needed for a part to be painted after pulling) These guys were most helpful over the phone too. Not pictured is the mold putty for filleting inside corners and repairing imperfvections etc. int eh mdf and other base mold wood parts.

Image

Below are the 17 or so sheets 1/2" Divinicell H80 and the green piece on top is 1" Diab PRX300, to be doubled up as a replacement for the Renecell 2" transom foam spec'd but no longer available locally....

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:09 pm
by MarkOrge
Here is a shot with the hinge recess peices in. The extra little hump against the drain channel is for the part of the hinge that sticks down. Damn near missed that...another PITA.....

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:14 pm
by MarkOrge
Close up of the hinge recess piece

Image

I want to have a nice gentle 1" radius on the outside top of the deck/top of gunnel, but it would cost me a fortune in filler to do it all with miold putty so I used some small coving...yet to be completed with mold putty.

Image

Cabosil and micro ballons arrived today.....

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:32 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I like this thread and look forward to seeing this deck.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:48 pm
by BassMunn
Shucks Mark your mold is looking good, I can't wait to see you pull that first part.

Must be pretty difficult working everything in reverse like that, looks like you've thought of everything.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:02 pm
by MarkOrge
Thanks Shannon. Your boat inspired me for sure. Do you have more performance data for us yet?

Speaking of thinking of everything, it is scary at times. I almost forgot and fortunately noticed in time that the contour for the rear part of the hatchwell drain was a reverse angle - that would have been fun to pull out....

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:31 pm
by cottontop
Mark, Looking forward to your build pics. You've got ,ore "guts" than I: Building and pulling from a mold. :lol:

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:29 pm
by MarkOrge
Sanded the entire mold to prep for the first coat of primer. Now I know how you guys feel when you talk about fairing and priming on your boat. Sanded until my arms fell off, got a cold beer or two, sewed my arms back on and continued sanding. I found swtiching hands and positions lots helps. Also, it seems with the high build type primers you don't really have to push to hard or go too fast. I didn't use any of my power sanders, just a couple blocks of the appropriate size and contour.

Image


First coat of primer on the mold. Lot's of filleting to imrpove on, more priming and sanding, you know....one of you has a tag line "a little more sanding, a little more dust..."

Image

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:33 pm
by MarkOrge
Oh, and Cottontop; thanks for the compliment but be advised I have often found myself having more "guts" than "brains".

For this project I am determined (stubborn) to achieve a particular outcome, but if anyone asked me I would highly reccomed they think about the added expense of not only foam core, but the extra time (months) to build a deck mold... I have experiance in mold work and fibreglass albeit from another lifetime or two ago....

Seriously I would be 1/2 done stitch and glue by now .... but heh I don't plan to be done until next spring and the worst is almost over....

Cheers!

Mark

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:03 am
by MarkOrge
Question for y'all; if my first layer of cloth on the deck mold is the 9 oz roving (followed by the 1208) how foolish is it to go with 3/8" radius or even 1/4" in tighht spots? I noticed that for filleting around bulkheads and stringers it is suggested 1/2" minimum. I want to have as tight a radius from teh deck 'over the edge" into the drain channels as possible so I don't have big gaps to trip over, hoping that makes sense....

As an alternitive, I was thinking of just applying some thickened resin to the tight areas then wetted cloth over that, but I still have outside corners that are approaching 1/4 inch. This would be 'wet on wet' but on a mold instead of right in the boat. It would mean that the material on the outside curve where deck flows over into a drain channel is actually thickened resin. Given it is epoxy it should not chip from just running shows on it from time to time? Your thoughts?

I'll post some pictures once I have finished sanding the forst coat of primer and applied the second to help illistrate what I mean. It may be a few days....

Cheers all, hope your fishing is going well,

Mark

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:03 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Yeah pics will help. :D

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:15 pm
by tobolamr
MarkOgre wrote:I sanded until my arms fell off, got a cold beer or two, sewed my arms back on and continued sanding. I found swtiching hands and positions lots helps. Also, it seems with the high build type primers you don't really have to push to hard or go too fast. I didn't use any of my power sanders, just a couple blocks of the appropriate size and contour.
I haven't built yet - BUT! I have spent some time in the auto body world, and most of the GOOD guys have told me that sometimes, doing it by hand and just taking the time to slowly work things to where you want them is the way to go. Glad to see you finding "Great Wisdom" as you build! Can't wait to see your decks!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:58 pm
by MarkOrge
FYI everyone I was checking an old post and realized I had mentioned I was using all nidacore. I went back and changed it so any newcomers would not be mislead. Despite the fact the stringers alone will take 7 1/2 sheets alone I am not going to screw around with structure and a reccomended layup schedule. The flat panels I laid up will be used for non-structural bulkheads abo0ve the sole, like the extra ones between hatchs etc or like ofr a livewell.

As for my progress, between two vacations and a small contract I had to complete, I didn't get anything done last month but I am back on Tangles & Snags and hope to be able to lay up the deck in a couple weeks. It really doesn't look much different other than the 50 or so little places here and there where I have to fill/sand/primer. The mold putty leaves the odd little hole where you have filleted and they are a PITA to fill. The three way inside corners (outside corner on the boat) are also a lot of fun to try to get symetrical....

I should be sanding with 200 - 400 grit on the final coat of mold resin by week's end or early next week latest and will post some pix. I just can't wait for this deck to be done so I can get on with stations, battons, and building a hull! It will go so much quicker visually from that point on....

Cheers everyone,

Mark

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:14 am
by chopperman
Mark,

I always enjoy your updates and pics. Looking forward to seeing your progress. :lol:

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:34 am
by flyfishingmonk
Me too. I have been wondering how thing are going. Looking forward to the updates.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:41 pm
by MarkOrge
Not much visually to share - the camera just doesn't show each level of patching imperfections etc. What I can share is I have graduated from contouring and fixing the hiccups in the filleting to now just sanding (and of course finding minor imperfections) I am past 150 grit and the EZ sand mold primer and almost completed 220 wet sand. After tomorrow Am I'll be wiping it all down and spraying the surface coat for the mold. 2 days roughly to sand with 400, another 2 days with 800, a day to buff , then a day to apply mold release and we'll finally be ready to lay up a deck....

Final (hopefully) touch ups of inner countours - deck mold front

Image
This mold putty is not the greatest to work with...

Image

Final touch ups (or 99%) complete, final coat of EZ Sand mold primer on, wet sanding with 220 grit; deck mold rear. I read a trick of using soapy water for the wet sanding. The sanding sponges really make it easier too - you can get bulk packs from Home Depot. Just rinse/squeeze them out in a bucket of water and carry on.

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:18 am
by Baitcaster
Hey Mark, where in the GTA do you get your building supplies?

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:30 am
by MarkOrge
If I want something quick and closer to home (I live in Markham) I go to Noah's. For the bulk of the expense though like the 20 some sheets of H80, transom board and epoxy, I went through Jason at Composites Canada. My wife work's for one of their suppliers so it helped me get a good discount. I'll im you with my phone number if you want to call me for more info.

Cheers,

Mark

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:36 pm
by Baitcaster
MarkOrge wrote:If I want something quick and closer to home (I live in Markham) I go to Noah's. For the bulk of the expense though like the 20 some sheets of H80, transom board and epoxy, I went through Jason at Composites Canada. My wife work's for one of their suppliers so it helped me get a good discount. I'll im you with my phone number if you want to call me for more info.

Cheers,

Mark
Got your email Mark. Many thanks. Noah's is aboutr 10 minutes from my house in Etobicoke, so that's good news!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:59 pm
by MarkOrge
Got the little imperfections out and sanded all with 220. I then applied the final coat of mold resin. I used black so I could tell if I was going too deep to get a bubble or something out. Hopefully I see the grey before sanding through to wood :-)

I started at the back, and am going one section at a time. Sanding with 220 a little if needed, other wise straight to 400, then clean it up and check for any scratches or holes I missed. This is where you really have to look close and feel. Once I am OK with the 400 sand, I move to 600, then 1000. If everything looks good at that point I go to 1500, then clean it up and buff/polish. A neat trick I was told is to sand one direction then the other when moving to the next finer sandpaper.

Here are a couple shots of the transom/splashwell/back 9" of deck polished and ready for mold release. It will likely take me at least another 5 days to get the rest polished, maybe a day for final touch up, then hopefully weekend after next I should have 1/2 a boat....

Image

The dull spot you see in the foreground below, right side is where I sanded with 1000 then 1500 to get a scratch out. You really have to be carefull at this point as you can scratch the polished surface really easy...

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:22 pm
by gstanfield
Wow, it's amazing the work you are going through for this. It's gonna look great when you are done 8)

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:59 pm
by flyfishingmonk
This is incredible. You are really taking it to the next level. I may want to do something like this for my FS18 in the future. I can't wait to see how this one turns out.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:00 pm
by MarkOrge
Thanks guys. A few comments and a question or two:

Firstly, I feel compelled to say that I would caution anyone considering a traditional female mold for the deck - by the time I have the part laid up I'll have 250 - 300 hours into the project. It may take less for you guys as you are better carpenters than myself...after seeing the great routering job on the hatch perimeters I am wondering if one couldn't do the same with a foam cored deck?

Also, it almost seems a shame too to invest hundreds dollars in the mold just to have it hauled ot the dump afterwards....but as I said I have had fun designing the deck in AutoCADD to my desires and am stubbornly set on a particular outcome.

Progress: I have the back ½ of the deck mold (rear deck) sanded now to 1500 and ready to buff/polish, by early next week I’ll have the entire mold ready for release agent and will post some pix. Part is scheduled to be laid up a week tomorrow. I am calling in all my markers and going to get a line going. One mixing, one wetting out, at least one rolling out bubbles, then another applying the plastic and squeegeeing out the resin. Any suggestions?

Say, Toe rail: how important is this? ...other than helping prevent my bass rods from rolling off the deck if I don’t use the rods straps.... :doh:

After seeing the great work you guys pull off I really can’t wait to get over this 'hump' and get on to stations/basket mold, cutting foam, generally getting the project moving, things will really progress once I can get this darn part laid up….

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:33 pm
by tobolamr
Also, it almost seems a shame too to invest hundreds dollars in the mold just to have it hauled ot the dump afterwards...
Um, this may be a really idiotic question - why not offer to pull molds off it for other builders? That could maybe might save someone a bit of time.... Anyways - just a thought.

That deck mold looks phenomenal... 8O :D

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:33 am
by topwater
You could box it up and ship it to shine and they could offer to mold glass decks for a price.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:38 pm
by MarkOrge
Great ideas guys, my brother in law says we should do a couple pulls but my issue is I have no space... I am hoping he can store it in his construction yard so someone else could benefit.

I picked up the mold release today - Frekote 770. Just wipe it on and let the solvents evaporate leaving behind a silicone film - supposed to be the way to go nowadays... the guys I have talked to say it is fabulous. Made by the same people that brought you Locktite.

I'll post pix Friday or Saturday - she should be all shiny by then....I just have the front flat area of the deck to sand and polish.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:31 pm
by MarkOrge
If I may ask, I need some advice on a few things...

Image

First of all, note we have finally finished sanding - the pictue above is the LAST section - down to 1500.

Next...

Note in the picute below how the 6 oz roving in the rear of the photo does not like to fall into the contours of the mold - but the 12 oz biax in the foreground is much more flexable BUT, does not naturally "FALL" into the radiasu's (SP?) I can work without the roving by subsitituting the second layer of cloth on the deck with biax BUT, at a weight cost of course BUT, the 12 oz biax still doesn't fall all the way around the shape of the mold.

1/ lay out the cloth for the night and let it "settle" ???

2/ Will the weight of the resin hold back the resitiance of the cloth ?

3/ Shall I increase the "fillet radius" of the contours with thickened resin?

4/ Find a budget for vacuum bag tlooling and peel ply (definately in over my head, $$ and experiance)

I am not really in over my head if I can pull this off....no pun intended... LOL

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:36 pm
by peter-curacao
This is the underside of the deck?

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:55 pm
by MarkOrge
Just another update - I ran a few "test patches" tonight to check the performance of the mold release.

These are all areas not actually used on the pull (in the middle of a hatch for example) They have been power sanded to 220 grit only.

On the right is a small section with a piece of the substrate (MDF) exposed. I DO NOT expect this to release, but I do wish to do the extreme test.. and if it does let go I will be so delighted :D

The second just to the left again, not an area that would be laid up but is free of substrate contamination.

Finally (not shown) is an area sanded to 1500 grit, all surface mold resin, but not buffed/polished. This is my pain threshold. If this does not release, I am concerned. Standby for Sunday AM....I will be praying, prioritized of course.... :D

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:10 pm
by MarkOrge
Hi Peter. What you are looking at is part of the female mold for the deck. Traditional old school. I know seems a waste to build a mold for one pull but I have a particular outcome in mind.

I will be laying resin and cloth against this mold, adding core, laying up again to meet the schedule, then building the hull on the basket mold. All foam core.

Shoot me a note if you want to chat. Cheers,

Mark

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:50 am
by MarkOrge
Update:

The piece on the right that had exposed wood peeled off, but heh, I was able to grab the edge and pull "up"

The piece on the left, I had to jam a screw driver under to get it popped. This would NEVER work. It eventually let go but, still not good. OK, it was only 220 grit with release only.

The piece at the rear with no pic, where we had sanded to 1500, no buff/polish, but 2 coats release, same as others, let go but only with vertical pull from the edge – I grabbed the loose cloth and pulled up.

I am not doing the lay up until we are confident. Tomorrow's test run is on a prepped surface. This will be done while I buff and polish the actual release surfaces.

PS; I am going to drill a few holes at critical points (open flat areas) and leave a small piece of shipping tape so after the layup, we can apply air pressure (an old trick) With one shot, you need a little insurance….

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:43 pm
by DAYTRIP
Well I am now re wirtting this because I am a bonehead.

I am a novice mold builder/user at best but these are my thoughts.

Wax it 5-10 times before you lay it up. I have released off of untouched awlgrip as well as enamal primer that is sanded to 220 grit without a problem. Both examples shown here. I like ot use PVA for the first couple pulls and then just waxed seams to work fine. I have no idea why the mold works better as it is used but it must be the continuous build-up of wax. PVA sticks to nothing and nothing sticks to it so spraying on two coats is cheap insurance. No negative angles is also key but I am sure you know that having got that far.
Image

The biax and roving will laydown once it is wet. Lot of rolling ot work it into the corner. I have used thinkened resin in square corners but if you have anything more than 1/4" I think you will be fine.

PVA is my recommendation!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:42 pm
by MarkOrge
Thanks DT. I am happy with the performance of the Frekote, and as strange as it sounds I am not going to be doing any more pulls of this - but if anyone else wants to they are welcome to it - just send a truck up my alley come spring and it's yours...

As of today - good news and bad news....first a post of the good news. I couldn't quite finish buffing last night with all the scary goings on, and of course takingmy little Ghoul and her witchy Mother out to collect bags of candy.... Finished this morning and washed the whole thing down. Then appiled 5 coats of Frekote 770. I am finally building a boat instead of a mold...that is indeed good news. Some tools:

Here is the buffer for large open areas:
Image

Here is the attachment for smaller areas - it is from 3M made for doing tough ups, comes with course and fine foam pad:
Image

Here is the buffer attachment for my Dremel Advantage extension for getting in tight corners and 3 - way female corners where even small buffers won't reach:
Image

Mold ready for lay up - various angles:
Image
Image
Image
Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:51 pm
by MarkOrge
Now for the bad news. We started to lay up around the splash well as it is the most complex and I thought I would try 50" wide cloth instead of tape - less seams and pieces. The hardener I was given is "fast" but I thought it would be fine with me working with it in winter and it is exchangable. The resin temperature was 67F and the ambient air 55F (I opened the garage door) I thought this should give us plenty of working time but no such luck. Not a chance in Hades I can work with this hardener. I barely got the first area wet out. Taking it all back tomorrow to exchange for slow hardener then back at it.

I suppose I could leave the resin and hardener on the concrete floor by the garage door to cool it more but that would leave it much thicker (higher viscosity) and harder to work with....at room temperature it flows quite nicely.

A little bit more of the good news - the cloth wets out and lays into the 1/4" inside corners just fine. All the other radius's are larger so we are away to the races.

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:59 pm
by peter-curacao
Why not extra slow hardener? you're not in a hurry are you?

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:56 pm
by MarkOrge
Not in a hurry at all Peter - I have all winter....but honestly, I did not even know there was EXTRA slow hardener - I will be sure to make the request tomorrow!

Many thanks!

Mark

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:34 am
by peter-curacao
Not sure if all brands have it, but West has it for sure in it's assortment.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:53 pm
by MarkOrge
Well got the hardener sorted out and made some progress.

Below is the back deck, first layer of glass laid up. 12 oz 45/45. It is now sanded and ready for the 9 oz roving, then foam core with HD in some sections where we have cleats, seat base, ski pole mount, etc. Had I the extra help and time I would have done those three steps at once.... the area that looks black has not released from the mold. This is not a problem, all it takes is a tap with the rubber mallet or a blast of compressed air under an edge and it lets go right away. 99% of the "white" that you see is not air - it is where I sanded through black mold resin into grey - a signal to slow down or I'll hit wood and have a repair...
Image

Close up of an area between the gunnel and a hatch drain channel showing the little humps in the mold that form the reccesses for a flush mount of the hatch hinges. If I were to do this again I would have saved a lot of hassle on these parts of the mold by just making it thicker and routering later.
Image
Below you see the 12 oz 45/45 and 9 oz cut for the upper (first to go on the on the mold) layer of the front deck. I am starting to fit the largest section of H80.
Image

H80 mostly done. Man those little bits of "foam dust" from the jig saw get everywhere! Lots of vacuuming and blowing with the air gun before we laid up on Saturday.... It looks a little sloppy where we moved or folded the foam to get the fit of the H80.
Image

Almost all of the 45/45, 9 oz roving, H80 and HD sections laid up. Just a little in the center to complete. I weighted everything down over night then cleaned it up next day to ensure the foam was well bedded into/onto the cloth layers. Again there are a couple areas in the foreground where it is a little sloppy from my plastic and weights touching a corner here or there - nothing that can't be rectified easily before final later tho. Another ugly area is in the middle of the hatches - this would just get cut out anyway - disregard the messes and puddles...
Image


Same thing showing the cooler/step up area laid up...before we laid up the front deck tho...
Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:18 pm
by chopperman
Looks good, Mark :wink: You've got a lot of hours put into that mold process and it's really paying off 8)

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:40 pm
by MarkOrge
Rear deck final layups complete - I added a couple layers of 1208 on the drain gutters as there is no foam core in those areas and the lips particularly will bear my weight when standing on deck/lids. I also added two layers where the HD foam is (cleat locations)

Image

Tomorrow I do the same for the front deck and then all that basically leaves foam strips around the gunnels plus a layer of cloth so the overhang is firm.

Later this week I should be able to start stations and a hull, I can't wait for that part where it starts to look like a boat....

I am going to do this right on the part in the mold so when I get her flipped and hull complete, the deck will mate up to the tops of the bulkheads and around the perimeter as accurately as possible.

Cheers all,

Mark

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:18 pm
by TRC886
You've done an extensive amount of work on the mold 8O It looks good :!: I hope everything goes according to plan :D Good luck :!:

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:29 am
by flyfishingmonk
Looking Good!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:41 am
by cottontop
I can't hardly wait to see the finished product. You do some really fine work. John

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:47 pm
by MarkOrge
Thanks for the comments gents!

I got the final layer of cloth on the front deck done including the extra layers under the drain channels. I also have the foam cut/fit to lay up behind the gunnels in support of the overhang. This will also provide the surface around the perimeter of the deck that will adhere to the outside horizontal surface of the hull when we get to that point. You can see a few spring clamps holding the gunnel foam. Sorry the pictures are not so great, the lighting is wierd in the garage, especially this time of year...

Image

At the rear of this picture you can see a box shape of foam that needs a layer of 12oz - that is the cooler under the step to the deck - I decided it would be much easier to do that now....

Image

This is a little tool I made to try to get the surface of the gunnel foam as level as possible so when I start with a level set of stations there is minimum gap to address.

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:00 am
by MarkOrge
Hope you all had a great Christmas and of course, blessings for the upcoming year.

So just before the holidays we pulled the deck off the mold. I was amazed how the Freecote product worked. The part was mostly held by the fact that air had to sneak in wherever as we pryed up from various areas and worked our way from front to back. It did "pop" here and there but definately did not "stick". You can see in this picture that the bow is stuck a little - just hung up, it was the finishing end of the pull...

Of course I had good help, which is always an asset....

Image

Kudos to Jaques for the layup schedule on the deck !! This part can be carried by two or three guys, but does not have hardly any flex. Amazing. I just love Diab H80...

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:09 am
by MarkOrge
Here is the part, leveled out on saw horses in the yard... just have to router the hatch openings nice and smooth/straight...

More about Diab H80 and Jaques schedule - if you remove that 2X4 from the front it hardly moves. With it in but only what you see, which is less than what will be above sole for bulkhead support, I can get my 235lb a$$ up on the deck and jump and it will not budge.

Image

QUESTION! I know that epoxy resin does not have UV "stabilizers" Does that mean it will "discolour" or, my concern is, will is be comprimised in strength?

PS: the white spots are frost, it was a cold day....the light beige squares are the structural foam inserts for trolling motor, cleats, etc...

Here is another shot...

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:26 am
by MarkOrge
Gents, I could REALLY use some advice from you experts ... !!!

Note on this comment; this is usually done on a “strongback” but in my application we will call it as it is, a former “mold”. This mold was confirmed as level after lowering.. and performs the function of the “strongback” – see earlier posts on this thread…

I have checked the upright level of the stations

I have leveled the “bottoms” of the stations

I have checked the centering of stations Transom through C against the outside of the mold gunnel (which was centered before starting the deck) AND I have ran a string from the center of the transom to center of station B, with a visual to station A. It looks good from my eyes. (not a confident reference)

Question #1: Is this the first criteria for true up centerline? ( I would guess so) I ask to ensure that say other dims are out (like we are a little out on chine or camber or cross check)

Question #2: I have measured across the diagonal between each station as I go ( I have not completed stations A and B due to paranoia) I have a twist that results in a of about 3/16” discrepancy between transom and station “E” , but I attribute that to uneven ply, and really as these are stations for foam it won’t affect hull as long as keel is true? I plan to address the twist with shims against the transom foam etc. as required.

How many angles, levels, measurements etc. should I check before applying the foam (or wood) before proceeding?

What am I missing?

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:22 pm
by Dougster
I don't qualify as any kind of expert here but will share my thoughts (for what little they're worth). I used your approach and it worked reasonably well, with the exception of a 3/4" twist that I was, with some struggle, able to get out of the hull with straps and such before I glassed. What happened with me, I believe, is that some of the frames where rotated a bit relative to each other. I measured the diagonals one at a time with a tape measure. That wasn't enough, as those measurements can be equal even with a twist or rotation in one or more of the frames. The geometry made it hard for me, but the real test is two equal length strings, one across each diagonal, to confirm that the two strings touch where they cross. If you're able to do that, it seems your pretty good to me. Since you said you're off by 3/8" inch, I'm thinking you did use the the two strings, and where they cross are 3/8" from touching. Words make this hard; wish I had a diagram.

No expert but at least knows it Dougster

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:26 pm
by flyfishingmonk
I don't have any input regarding your question but man that deck looks great!!!!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:03 am
by MarkOrge
thanks gents! i am going to cross measure like dougster mentioned, double check for level and straight, finish securing stations A and B then start applying battons. Tuesday is supposed to be warm so I can cut all the hull foam in the alley and avoid a sea of foam dust.... i should be able to have at least all the hull seams all done by week's end.

thanks again guys !

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:31 pm
by chopperman
All of you're detailed work on you deck mold has certainly paid off :lol:

It sounds like you're doing all of the right checks to ensure a straight and level hull. My only advise is that you keep checking for twists as you go. I'll bet that the shims will correct that 3/16" discrepancy. I had to correct a small twist about half way through the build that was caused by a settlement of the strongback.

Keep up the good work :!:

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:44 pm
by tobolamr
That is an impressive deck! Well done! As for the rest - no clue!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:07 pm
by MarkOrge
Thanks TB and everyone...

So I got some of my questions from another post figured out...but have the remaining items I could really use help with if anyone could oblige...

1/ What size "puck" or "insert" for the transom bolts? I posted this separately and had some response, but nothing definitive. As this is a foam transom and these types of builds are rare on Bateau I may have to guess – in which case I am going with 2” thickened resin. If anyone has a suggestion I am all ears.

2/ Cutting the “top” edge of the transom foam to place against the transom station. As the foam is 2” thick per layup schedule, it will effectively “raise” the hull foam as I lay it across the stations and extend out to the rear most edge due to the 18 degree angle. I can send some pix tomorrow if it will help with this. Otherwise I am going to guess I need to shave it at the matching angle so as to keep hull from having a hook at the back.

This week’s progress so far; stations confirmed, battons applied. I must say as they “bend” outwards when applying it was a concern but the same would apply for the wood, so I can only assume I need to trust the dims. The schedule calls for ¾” battons so that is what I used. Neat how they bend outwards say between stations D and C as you apply them forward to B. Hope this is the way it is supposed to be?

Pictures:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:07 pm
by Steven
That deck is very impressive. How do you ensure the hull will line up to it?

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:45 pm
by MarkOrge
The deck mold is now the "strongback" The hull is being built just insde the dimensions of the underside of the deck, in this same mold.

The flare of the hull at the top of the chine will just fit inside the drop of the outer sides of the deck, which when all together will be laminated and have the rub rail added to complete the gunnel.

I hope this helps?

The image below is looking down what will be the underside of the gunnel flare. horizontally is H80, vertically are the battons that the chine section foam is going to be attahced to.

I'll be cutting the foam for the hull/chines tomorrow and hope to have it tacked in place, and will post more pix.

Cheers, Mark

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:03 pm
by Steven
Got it. How much weight will you save building in foam?

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:27 am
by MarkOrge
Hi Steven. i may not save any, I am told only larger boats save wieght using synthetic core. i have done a couple rebuilds and my goal was to do a build from scratch with no wood option. i will be weighing the hull upon completion tho and will report. cheers, mark

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:19 pm
by tobolamr
Mark - As for those thru-hull bolt holes... did you ever search for over drill, fill, re-drill? I'm sure you'll get some good input soon!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:17 am
by MarkOrge
Thanks T. I did a search using those words and there are details but not specific to 2" HD foam transom. Joel's Phoam Phantom build was 1.5" HD transom with a 40HP so he didn't need them. I asked my local supplier who is also a builder on the side and he reccomended 2" solid "puck" of thickened resin between the outer layers of glass (4 X 12oz each side) That should make for a really solid mount. The boat is rated for max 115 which is what I have, but it will have a jack plate and if there is rough water on tournement day we will be slamming down the lake :D

Thanks again !

Mark

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:00 pm
by flyfishingmonk
MarkOrge wrote:I asked my local supplier who is also a builder on the side and he recommended 2" solid "puck" of thickened resin between the outer layers of glass (4 X 12oz each side) That should make for a really solid mount.
That's what I did. I over drilled and then filled before glassing. I think there are about 60 holes in my transom. I also used epoxy dye so I could see it under the glass. That was I think a suggestion of Larry's or maybe Steven's. Since I was drilling into wood I kept maybe 3/8ths to 1/2 inch of epoxy between the bolts and the wood. Maybe bigger for foam. I don't know. Somebody will know.

Not sure how well my process relates to your foam applications. I used a hole saw for some and a forstner bit for others. Just depended on what size bit I had. I eventually picked up a whole saw kit from Milwaukee and a nice forstner bit set from Porter Cable. I found the Porter Cable whole saws to be junk but the forstners seem nice. The Milwaukee hardware seemed strong too.

Later when I am ready to mount all the hardware I will go back and re-drill the holes. I also measured where all the holes are just to be safe. When I am ready to drill I will not be able to see the black epoxy from the outside.

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:52 pm
by MarkOrge
Wow thank you Padre! Great idea with the dye....

Here is where I am at today, I have questions for next week's production, I post them next...

There is some sag between stations C and D, so I went into AutoCADD and ran a spline to calculate what would be the dims for a station 1/2 way between....I am adding this piece tomorrow. I also have to fess up on my SECOND transom station (not the foam) I had one dimension out - this project is so humbling, and I have to fight to be patient, that is wh I am not a good carpenter....anyway I had to gently lift up the ends of the battons at the transom and re-nail/glue some shims .... according to my checks the surface fore to aft from station D through transom should be flat. I also VERY CAREFULLY ($300 a sheet) cut the transom foam now that it is laminated (2 X 1") Everything looks to be square and true now :D I just need to add the extra stations and a few more battons where there are some gaps.

Here are some pics ....

Image

Image

You can see here that the hull foam will meet the rear edge of the transom foam, so when I flip and do the inside I will have to fill the gap at the front...

Image

Checking the battons are level across D, E, and transom stations...

Image

Image

Image

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:03 pm
by MarkOrge
I could use some advice on next week's layups... :help:

After I do the seams, according to the schedule for foam I will be facing TWO layers of 12 oz.; one 1208 45/45 and one 12oz 0/90.

1/ Does the CSM on the 1208 go against the foam or in between the two layers of cloth? Or on the outside?

2/ Can I do this in one phase? When I was doing the deck I had to do one of 1208 and one lightweight roving and it seemed manageable but this time I am up on the hull with two layers rolled back? Anyone done two layers before?

:doh:

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:30 am
by topwater
Mark i did my nv 23 bottom " two layers of 12 oz " in one day. Its the best way to do it,
but it makes for a real long day. It took me about ten hours with my son mixing for me.
It was also the first time i ever did glass work, i could do it alot quicker now. Mabe
in 8 hours :wink:

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:53 pm
by Cracker Larry
1/ Does the CSM on the 1208 go against the foam or in between the two layers of cloth? Or on the outside?
The CSM should go against the core. I've never used 1208, but there is no way I'd try 2 layers of 1708, probably about the same thing. I think I'd go one layer at a time.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:37 pm
by MarkOrge
Sorry I was mislieading on my question CL, thanks for the input too tho. I should not have mentioned the option of the CSM on teh 1208 going against the core, the schedule specifies the 0/90 is on the 'inside' and the 45/45 with mat (1208) is on teh outside, but oesn't say which side is up. I posted separately and got an initial response from Jacques but I think I mislead him too....to I reposted with a scetch of the two options.

If I can get all the foam cut tonight I'll be doing seams tomorrow !

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:47 pm
by Cracker Larry
the schedule specifies the 0/90 is on the 'inside' and the 45/45 with mat (1208) is on teh outside, but oesn't say which side is up. I posted separately and got an initial response from Jacques but I think I mislead him too....to I reposted with a scetch of the two options.
I don't know the lamination schedule, but in any case I'm pretty sure that the mat side should face towards the core and the biax side out, no matter where it is in the laminate. You sure don't want to fair the mat side 8O :help: :help:

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:18 pm
by MarkOrge
Thanks Topwater. wow, and a 23' too...!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:46 am
by topwater
Mark 12oz i used did not have mat, its going to use a lot more epoxy :!:
good luck.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:41 pm
by MarkOrge
First - a question before the updates: if the chine edges don't quite line up, do I trim them or shim the stations underneat? Which dimension should I trust? I am out by almost a 1/4" in a couple spots. Is that a big deal?

Update:

We the last few days have involved a lot of check and head scratching....Diab H80 is not 48" long, it is 7' 1 3/8, so I had to take the dimensions and plot them onto a sries of sheets that size. Low and behold good thing I checked the width; 47 and 3/4. Back to AutoCADD to re-do that one. Anyhow, I cut plotted my dims at the one foot marks and cut the two sides at once, clamped together to keep them identical. ....same like I learned on the forum.... :D

Image

Image

Got back insode the garage and turned the heat on as soon as the full sized pieces were cut... I did just a loose fit on the ribbald mold to get a feel for things - I hope to get them all lined and squared with the transom Friday (Toronto Int'l Boat Show tomorrow)

Sorry for the wierd lighting...end of day...also, note the last few pieces on the side are not taped to the hull pieces yet. (shipping tape)

Image

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:13 am
by SilviuUta
Hi Mark,

Can you describe the lamination schedule for the deck, if I understood correctly use for the first layer 12 oz. 45/45 for the second layer 9 oz. roving. After this use foam H80 1” thinness? I don’t understand the final layer after H80 and how many layer use to increase the stiffness on the drain gutters.
Also for the hull can you provide the laminations schedule?


Regards,

Silviu

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:34 am
by MarkOrge
Hi SU. The gutters on my deck are min 3 layers of 1208. This is because there is no core - i built a tradtional female mold for the deck. For the flat areas yes, I went with Jacque's schedule; from outside; 1 layer 12 oz. biaxial 45/45 with 8 oz. mat (1208), 1 layer 9 oz. woven, foam Divinycell H-80 12 mm (1/2”), 1 layer 9 oz. woven. For areas where I have high density (cleats, seat base, trolling motor) I added extra 1208 underneath.

I hope this doesn't sound rude, the purpose of this forum is to share information, but I don't think I am supposed to post the entire schedule...if Joel or Jacques are OK with I can copy and paste, but you are definately better off getting the entire document (building notes etc.) from them?

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:59 am
by Cracker Larry
I hope this doesn't sound rude, the purpose of this forum is to share information, but I don't think I am supposed to post the entire schedule...if Joel or Jacques are OK with I can copy and paste, but you are definately better off getting the entire document (building notes etc.) from them?
Good call, Mark 8)

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:54 pm
by MarkOrge
Thanks CL.

So I was scratching my head trying to figure out why I was all out of alignment. What I did was:
- pull off all the tape and start over again.
- I placed the two rear hull pieces and squared them up.
- I proceeded with the next two hull pieces and checked the center line (keel) was straight all the way up to the nose.
- I checked the very front tip using a plumb bob off my center line string.
- I then placed the scantlings on.
- I had to do trim 1/8" - 3/16 off the scantlings, perhaps due to the thickness of the material...but it was the same on both sides - from about 2' ahead of the transom up to about 8' forward.
- From there everything lined up real nice. I used some toothpicks on many parts of the seams and a whack 'o' drywall screws with fender washers...just tight enough to hold it like Joel reccomended.

Sorry for the crappy pictures as usual... I'll try to get pictures during the day from now on...

Seams need touch up here and there in the morning, then we start with tape....

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:13 pm
by tobolamr
So I'm assuming then that you found the discrepancies and got that all straightened out? :doh: I was just wondering for certain.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:56 pm
by MarkOrge
you bet - mentioned above she lined up real nice, thanks T

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:47 pm
by MarkOrge
Got the seams taped yesterday....

Image
Image
Image
Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:47 am
by flyfishingmonk
Looking good!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:04 pm
by MarkOrge
Before the update, a few more questions...

1/ When trying to get a successive layer of cloth wetted out, it seems to take a LOT of squeegie pressure. What "comes out" is a creamy kind of resin that is hard to work into a dry spot. It this a finely "aerated" resin, full of little air bubbles?

2/ I had the heat turned DOWN in the garage, so the resin seemed "thicker". This seemed to make it harder to wet out, but I felt I had to because if the temperature would have been above 65 I definately would not have kept ahead of the gelling process for layers underneath what I was currently working on. Hope that makes sense? :doh: Any ideas on how to wet out cloth in cooler temperatures with heavier viscosities so as to avoid premature kick off?

3/ I am out of 12 oz 0/90 "no mat" but have 0/90 in 1708, as I want to get the transom layup done but cannot get across town untill next week, anyone see any issues with using the 1708? The added cloth will only add a few pounds to the transom but will be thicker and stronger :doh:

Update:

So....got the seams all sanded (and the drips down the sides - should have masked that off) and laid out the cloth. What you see is 1208 45/45, with 12 oz 0/90 underneath. I worked the resin as hard as I could with the squeegie, man that 1208 is thirsty. I did the calculation of total cloth weight to resin used and I came in around 60/40. This was over 5 gallons of resin !!! About 52 pounds of resin including hardener and 33 pounds of cloth, including of course the resin to wet out the foam.

Image

Here we are in the middle of the marathon layup. Folded the center section of both pieces apart to wet out the foam. Then placed each of the four layers in place and wetted/rolled/squeegied each layer individually like crazy to stay ahead of the gel curve. The bearded fellow at the back is my dear friend and feloow fishing enthusiest Alex, who is also one of our local Pastors. I am confident our layup will be sound, as we were both praying for help! We completed all layers in teh middle, then did the outsides.

Image

Got both layers on both sides done, but it was not easy. The overlap where we folded back was gelling as we did the next section... placed the poly on and did a token job of poor man's vacuum bag/peel ply.

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:50 pm
by MarkOrge
Days of sanding later....

I posted a question regarding componants for fairing, once I added strakes and reverse chine, then "sharpen the edges" we'll be away. Not a lot to see in the updated pictures...but here they are anyway....

Image
Image
Image
Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:53 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Looking good!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 1:40 pm
by tobolamr
Hey Mark! Long time, no update! I hope all is well up in Toronto with you and your family. Just curious if you're making any progress?

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 11:24 am
by MarkOrge
Heh thanks for asking !! All is well, I just started a great new job but have also been making progress.

I was just procrastinating since the trouble with the uploading of pictures. I didn't want to post with no visuals....

I'll run some updates tonight or tomorrow - strakes and reverse chines are done - we are ready to start fairing on the hull !!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 2:20 pm
by MarkOrge
Finally some pixs of recent progress:

1 X 3 H80 cut and ripped for reverse chine. 1 X 2.5 applied after chine epoxied to hull, ready to router and layup
Image

view from aft
Image

reverse chine applied all the way to the transom. when I have thickened apoxy left over I have been using it in obvious low spots
Image

two sets of strakes with 2 X 12oz 45/45 biax applied
Image

still have to epoxy the cloth on the stra \kes on the left side of the picture, the rear ends stop just shy of the transom as I'll need to sharpen the edges but wanted cloth to wrap over the rear of the foam
Image

3M fairing boards - one firm one flexable. note repair at the chine - I had a large air bubble that I could not live with
Image

spray rail from hell, still have some cloth to lay at the very front
Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:15 pm
by tobolamr
Hey Mark! Hope all is well. Any progress as of late?

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:15 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Pics! We need Pics!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:49 pm
by MarkOrge
Not a lot done over the summer with the new job and vacation etc., but I do have a few pics and some progress, I'll get them in by weekend at the latest. Cheers guys !!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:52 am
by MarkOrge
I finally got time to upload all my pictures again, next will be going back and inserting them in previous pages. It has been a whirlwind since I start my new job - incredibly demanding but I am getting more time on weekends now. The last few months I have been sanding, fairing, sanding, fairing. Y'all know what I am talking about. Hopefully this afternoon's coat of primer is the last one save for a few touch ups here and there. To stay on schedule for May long weekend splash I need to have the hull painted and flipped for mid January.....

Looks nice after the first coat of primer.....then I realized how much more fairing I had to go.....

Image

Image

Neighbor kid helps me regularly......

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:55 am
by MarkOrge
More fairing.....

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:58 am
by TRC886
She's looking good :!: Hang in there and you will make your target splash :D

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:57 pm
by AtTheBrink
Those are some big splash rails! Looks like you about got the fairing on the outside done. I think it is pretty cool to have a neighbor kid helping you.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:19 am
by tobolamr
Mark, it's great to see you at it again!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:32 pm
by MarkOrge
Thanks Guys. So.... I can't believe I ran out of primer tonight. Two of the 1 qt Interlux 2 part kits. In volume about a jug of beer. I got the transom and hull done, some of the front, 3/4 of the scantlings still need to be done. It's rewarding but also a bit of a heartbreak. A bonus of the two part interlux primer is the high gloss, especially right after application. I know where I have touch up, but the curse is I still see "waves" at the running surfaces - last 5' of the hull. No one will ever see this, but I know it is there. Will this cost me 1 MPH or 10 MPH? How much fuel? I can work out the obvious but if I have pushed marital patience to the limit as y'all have I am sure, I need to get this hull (bottom) done and flipped. Advice? I really hoped I could have it all nice and flat last 5' and fair the rest. The scantlings are NOT an issue, it's the hull. :help:

Image

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:36 pm
by MarkOrge
Sorry guys, the issue is some of the areas, like the contour you see between hull bottom and spray rail look "lumpy" if you look against the light. Like when I was young and some one pointed out crappy "bodywork" on a freshly painted car. Basically I know - not "fair" but any advice on how to fair a contour that is contouring along a contoured slope ?

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:05 am
by flyfishingmonk
Mark - I have been using a 24 inch knock down trowel to apply my QF compound. It seems to work real well and passes over the low spots with ease. I mixed up several batches, 3/4 cup at a time, and have been spreading it on and then simply scraping it off. Ti scrape the excess off I run the knock down trowel across it with the trowel positioned up at an angle to flex over the curve of the hull. It has worked like a champ. I am on the last little bit and applied some QF today with this tool. I used it to apply probably 75% of the QF I put on the boat. Maybe it's worth trying in those few spots you are having trouble with - Casey

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:39 pm
by MarkOrge
Thanks again Casey, great advice. I may go back to some fairing but honestly, I really have had enough and I have made the decision to flip again once all done and ready for rigging. My decision criteria is twofold:

1/ I canna take no more Cap'n !!! (Scottish accent) I am so sick of fairing, priming, sanding, then realizing I made extra work for myself and doing it all over again...... but I must say I am at 95%. That having been said, I am going to start the inside layups. Back to mixing resin and wetting out cloth/foam core....

2/ When I get to the final finishing/painting stage, I will have dryfit all my hardware and will be so pumped to get boating (May by then) that I will have extra motivation and will be ready to sand my butt off again....

MILESTONE

First - drag the former deck mold, the ribbald mold for the hull built on that, plus the hull (weighs nothing at this point) and then the cradle out of the garage (not enough clearance to lift cradle and/or hull up and under the garage door)

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:46 pm
by MarkOrge
Then...... legs broke underneath but that was all toss away anyway....

Image

then.....

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:52 pm
by MarkOrge
Then.....

Image

Image

Image

Demo crew ready to go....

Image

Demo underway (firewood)

Image

Down to what's left of the deck mold, flipping over for final demo....

Image

Going to be two trips, but 90% loaded up....
Image

Our baby on the cradle, ready to start inside layups.... cradle on castors of course....

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:25 pm
by flyfishingmonk
That is awesome!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:15 pm
by tobolamr
CONGRATULATIONS!!!! Way to go! That is AWESOME! I can't wait to see you continue to progress!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:11 pm
by peter-curacao
Congratulations on the flip!! 8) man it's about 30 degrees Celsius over her but my balls and dick are shrinking looking at those pics :? 8O

(lol to much info? :roll: )

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:26 pm
by Cracker Larry
Mine too, Peter :lol: I wouldn't leave the house in that weather :!:

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:17 pm
by AtTheBrink
Looks like you could have used ice skates under that thing instead of casters!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:30 pm
by flyfishingmonk
The dual strakes on that thing look sweet!

Casey

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:05 pm
by MarkOrge
Thanks Guys. Casey - you and I are at similar points in the build now? What is your projected splash date?

Weather - it was actually a nice day - sunnay and +4C (30F) but yes I do envy your climate in the sunny south (and the fishing !!)

Shot of the bow profile. Foam for around the top of the sheer is not trimmed yet.

Image

Seams are done (side seams and around transom done after this picture)

[img]http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userp ... s_done.jpg[/img

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:34 pm
by flyfishingmonk
MarkOrge wrote:Thanks Guys. Casey - you and I are at similar points in the build now? What is your projected splash date.
Man I have no idea...

How many hours do you suppose we have left?

That reverse chine is awesome!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:37 am
by MarkOrge
Thanks Casey. I have placed the final milestones/steps on a spreadsheet and if I can stay on track, at best, I can splash for the May Long Weekend.

I am doing the full width cloth inside the hull this weekend, the rest below. It's pretty aggressive, we'll see....

Weekend date task(s)
Oct strakes and spray rails
Oct fairing
Nov fairing
30-Dec priming, final fairing
6-Jan sanding, priming
13-Jan sanding, priming
20-Jan build cradle & flip
27-Jan prep for seams
3-Feb seams
10-Feb full layup inside
17-Feb stringers, bulkhead layup
24-Feb stringer install
24-Feb (week off) frames, fuel tank supports
24-Feb (week off) fuel tank, wire chases
24-Feb (week off) dry fit deck, mark out bulkheads
3-Mar install bulkheads, foam fill and trim
10-Mar cooler, livewell, bilges, cockpit drainage
17-Mar sole, seat shelf/base
24-Mar sole, final
31-Mar Consoles, dashes, hatches
7-Apr Consoles, dashes, hatches
14-Apr final deck prep, prime for paint, laminate deck
21-Apr dry fit hardware and rigging, router for hinges
28-Apr paint deck and cockpit, kiwi grip
5-May paint deck and cockpit, kiwi grip
12-May Motor
19-May Seats & rigging

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:54 am
by flyfishingmonk
Wow that is aggressive. I was planning on setting up a spreadsheet as well. However, I don't think I will be able to do it that quickly. Unfortunately it looks like it will be a busy spring work wise.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:22 pm
by Uncle D
Very nice Mark. I know a PH-18 is supposed to come in at 800 lb. if built by experts and more by us mere mortals, but what do you think yours is going to come in at.
Don

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:44 am
by MarkOrge
I'll be happy at 900. I'm told the foam core version is a little heavier due to more cloth and resin, and of course when i have been in doubt I have added a strip here and there.

I can't wait to see how she handles and cruises, even my wife and daughter are getting excited now that she is looking more like a boat and spring is around the corner. They have both made it abundantly clear our family is not to go another summer without a boat !

Cheers

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:14 pm
by BassMunn
Congrats on the Flip Mark, your boat looks lovely.

Don't worry about being a little heavier, my PH16 is heavier than designed and it rides beautifully. It can bang pretty hard in choppy water though, but we expect that.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:55 pm
by MarkOrge
Thanks Shannon.

All - I am nearing final decision time around weight and balance and really obsessing. Because my engine is heavier (115 Evenride Ficht - same as Bassmun) AND, I am going to use a jack plate, when I put everything on a spreadsheet and even moving batteries forward I still show a factor of 1000 + pounds to the rear. Am I doing this correct? Every foot to the rear multiplies the weight factor by that numeric? So, if I have 50 pounds that is 3 feet rear of center of gravity, it has an effect of 150 pounds?

Hopefully you can see the spreadsheet below, I set the center of gravity at 7 feet forward of the top of the transom in auto cad, then entered and deviations from the original design into the spreadsheet..

:help: :help: :help: :help: :help:

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:04 am
by MarkOrge
I may have answered my own question. If I move my batteries to the front center hatch I get the same balance as stock design.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:14 pm
by AtTheBrink
I sure wish I knew more about computer so I could build a speedsheat like that. I am just relying on pencil, eraser and a bit of luck to get the balance right.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:00 pm
by MarkOrge
Heh Mike, please disregard the colors and other schmalz. All that is, is using MS Excel and trust me, it is only as good as the guy "measure twice cut once"

I did some research and found an interesting page:

http://microship.com/resources/cg-weight-study.html

what made sense of it for me was, me and my daughter on the teeter taughter board together. I have to move closer to center to balance or, she and my wife have to sit on the end together... you get it. i had to scratch my head for a bit to make it work.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:17 pm
by Uncle D
Mark, I may have missed it but where is your tank going and how big will it be.

Now you have me wondering about my balance. I added 1300 sq.in. of sponsons and will have batteries in front of the transom on each side, and a 35 gal tank under the console :doh: I may need to move batteries forward too. My engine and 6" jack plate are going to come in at about 500 lbs. :oops: We'll see :| Don

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:08 pm
by tobolamr
I recall many a boat that the batteries for the trolling motor were located in the bow, and some folks put their fuel tanks there and such. Maybe more of the PH builders will chime in on this, too...

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:58 am
by flyfishingmonk
We ran the numbers on my boat and I had to move the batteries (2 trolling and 1 starter) all the way in front of bulkhead A. In front of bulkhead B I have both tanks. I'm also having to move the console forward about 4 inches. Consider I have the motor, the poling platform, two shallow water anchors, two trolling motors and a 4 inch jack plate.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:02 pm
by MarkOrge
Thanks Gents. My fuel is at 36 gals imperial/ 43 U.S. and is located between the stringers, under the sole, running from just behind the COG to about 1/2 way between bulkhead A and B. it is only 14" wide as I need to leave the min 3" of bulkhead on the inside of the stringers where I "go through" B and C.

Uncle D - balance - you have to start with the design, then account for anything that has changed, all on a spreadsheet. If you can IM me I'll e-mail you a copy of mine. It is busier than you may want but you should be able to understand the logic, then either build your own or use my formulas etc. I really can't speak to the sponsons - are they part of the running surface? This is an area most likely beyond my scope of knowledge (a great which I have learned over the years on this forum)

As for the changes you mention, the design is for one battery at the transom, a 20 gallon fuel tank up front between bulkheads A and B, and a 275 pound motor on the transom. So, what you need to account for right off the bat is not only about 1000 + pounds plus additional weight aft of the center of gravity (remove 275 @ 7 feet aft and replace with 500 @ 7.5 feet aft) but also you'll need to calculate batteries and placement of people. :help:

It took a lot of head scratching and moving things around on my drawing, then recalculating., etc., etc., before I cam up with my plan. :doh:

Have fun!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:03 am
by Uncle D
Thanks for the offer Mark. My email is drlanjr at gmail dot com. The sponsons are part of the hull so center of balance is moved and the CC Is a little more forward than the 17in. (i think) the plans called for. I'll have 2 trolling batteries between A and B frames. Other than the tunnel nothings changed. :roll:
Don

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:27 am
by MarkOrge
Good weekends boat building brethren.

FYI I had a bonus day - about 20 years ago Alberta started "Family Day" and it caught - now for most Provinces up here it is a statutory long weekend. That means an extra day in the garage :D :lol:

I cheated with half the hull Thursday...., followed up with second half Saturday, port scantling Sunday, then Starboard scantling AND transom today. The pictures look less than neat and tidy - i had to use poly when I folded back the front half of the cloths for each side of the hull (or the dry cloth would lay in the lay up we just did) I also have some poly laying on the gunnels to help the cloth "lay over"

I also decided to use some 1708 for the transom instead of 0/90 - same cloth but a little heavier and with another layer of ".08". Strength never hurt a transom. In the words of Cracker Larry "no one ever accused me of under building" I had it on the shelf.... no need to buy more 1208...

My Father in law was a great help!

Image

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:32 am
by flyfishingmonk
That is looking great!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:29 pm
by tobolamr
That is looking SUPER great! Build on dude! 8)

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:37 am
by MarkOrge
This weekend I got all the 1" foam cut to 10 and 8 inch widths to laminate together to make the 2" wide stringers in the layup schedule. I have started to epoxy them together but without a 16' long table it is going to take a while to do it all in stages.

My Daughter and her friend had fun using the inside of the hull as a blank canvas for their felt pen graffiti.....

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:52 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Very cool!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:56 pm
by MarkOrge
This is likely a question for the Designer or Shine, etc.

Picture trying to layup 4 layers on three sides of a foam stringer, and four of them. Then placing them in the hull and adding the 4 strips of 12 oz tape per the layup schedule.

It would be SO much easier to do the laminating with the full length stringers tacked into the hull, resting on the pads per below. The question then is - do we stuill need the 4 layers of tape if we allow the 4 layers of cloth for the stringer layup to extend over the fillet and on to the hull? That is, do the stringers need 8 layers at the fillet between hull and stringer? The image in the layup schedule document actually indicates this is how it is to be done.

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:11 pm
by jorgepease
That is exactly how I have done mine, I let the cloth overlap, except I used much more glass.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:17 am
by MarkOrge
Next question on pads under foam stringers - do we epoxy the pad to the inside of the hull, then loose fit the stringer on top of the pad (tack it then fillet/layup) or do we try to adhere the stringer to the pad, but leave the underside of the pad dry, only filleting/laying up on the sides ? Does it matter?

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:36 am
by jorgepease
I will give a non-expert opinion - If the H80 uses the same sandwich principals as corecell, It doesn't really matter, since the foam is mostly non structural in that application, serving as a form. So whichever way you feel most comfortable.

I found it pretty easy to glue the pads down, lining them up to a pencil line. Then the next day I fine shaped the stringers to the pads and glued them down. Since your not infusing you don't have to get the joints resin tight like I did, just a nice transition so the glass lays down easy.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:29 pm
by MarkOrge
Just a quick update.... this is a "messy" picture but what we have is a deck that dry fits to the hull, and also provides for a layup surface to make 17' long by 10 inches high by 2 inches thick stringer cores... i saved the resin jugs to fill with water to use as weight. The "ends" of the other lay up are weighed down by the batteries...


Image


I also laminated one side of all 5 bulkheads - smallest on top

Sorry for the crappy pictures,

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:02 am
by SmokyMountain
Looks great Mark!!! Love that deck layout. 8) Did you have any problems with fit and bow droop? I know I had a little. Keep it up your getting there!!!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:06 am
by MarkOrge
Funny you mention bow drop - yes I have about 1/4". Thankfully the deck has enough flex it will mate up with some weight. Is there a Phantom out there that DIDN'T have some drop ? :lol:

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:35 am
by tobolamr
Looking good! Keep up the good work! I thought your pictures worked just fine, btw.

Note to self: Don't let my PH have "droopy bow syndrome," give it some Viagra early... :lol:

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:53 pm
by MarkOrge
More progress this weekend...

Got the last of the 1" foam foam epoxied - all staggered joint and the lack of a 16' long lay up table meant I had to do this in phases

Image

Here they are all stacked - 4 pieces 16' X 10" (or so) by 2" Question: and ideas on how to true up the top edge? Straight edge clamped as a fence and shave 1/16" off? I ask because of course I have hardened epoxy that has dripped out/been pressed out. I also have a small power plane. :doh:

Image

Got the "other side" of the bulkheads laid up. On the last one I really took the time to squeegie out the resin from under the poly - what a difference - almost perfect finish with no wrinkles. Doing that on the others would have saved a lot of sanding.... :oops:

Image

Bulkhead "E". Note to self - don't use a skill saw to cut - you get bad fiberglass "hangnails" from the front of the blade that is spinning in an upwards fashion, catching strands. Fine toothed jig saw blade is much more forgiving. Oh well, it is all close to the edge so I sanded them down/feathered out - fillet and an extra strip of tape will take care of this.

Image

Bulkhead "D". Much cleaner cuts.

Question - I went with a 2" hole saw for the limber holes, so I have 1" high for drainage - any reason to go higher? Is a 1" high "half circle" enough ? :doh:

Image

Deck dry fit to hull. You can see at the front edge where you have to push down on the deck to mate up with the bow due to a little bit 'o' droppage. This week I'll be hoisting the deck up below the rafters to get the stringers and bulkheads done. I'll be able to lower and raise to check the mating of all the contact points on the underside of the deck to the tops of the gunnels and bulkheads. She'll really come together once I get the hatch lids and console windscreens fabricated. :D

Image

Shot from behind. Don't ask about the strip of core material showing through at the top of the splash well.... it will all go away before paint....

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:33 pm
by tobolamr
Holy Update Batman! NICE JOB DUDE! I think that if your signature has anything to do with things, you might be the foam fantom whisperer, too! :lol:

I've been watching you on this one from the start. Go Mark Go! You can do it!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:40 pm
by Uncle D
really looks good Mark. Man, keep it up.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:36 pm
by MarkOrge
More progress last weekend. It is so nice to see visual progress as opposed to months of sanding (although there is progress there too - just painfully slow)

First, the deck had to be hoisted up to the ceiling so I can get back into the hull

Image

Image


I cleaned up the top edge of the stringers. You may be able to see the chalk line down the left side.

Image

It took a lot of head scratching and AutoCADD work, but I was able to get the inner and outer edge drawn and marked on the stringers. I cut the insides (deeper) then used a power plane to shave the contour to meet the markings on the 'upper' side (outside)

Image

Image

starting with "A" I started the trimming to dryfit the bulkheads - I thought it would be easier before the stringers go in.

Image

"B" dry fit

Image

Image

"D" and "E" dry fit. "C" is all below sole so I procrastinated, it will be just another set of frames really, perhaps thicker. Disregard all the graffitti.... girls and felt pens.... it all gets covered up.....

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:51 pm
by MarkOrge
Got the inner 2 stringers bedded this weekend then the starboard one laid up. Wow is that one layup - same as transom. 2 layers 1208 and 2 of 0/90 no matt, for over 15'. Used 2 gallons of resin. These stringers are worth about $1400 in foam and resin. Well, I won't worry about slamming into waves on Georgian Bay or Lake Ontario !

That having been said, it was dang hard to be patient as I had to do the entire length (in overlapping sections) leaned over rolling and shueegeeing (sp?) So, not an excuse but with horrible back pain 3' into 15 I was not as fussy as I could be or should be, let alone up to CL standards LOL.

Two questions:

1/ i have some small air bubbles, around the size of a pinky nail or smaller or some like a 1/2 stretch of pencil lead. These appear to be in one of the layers out of four, some on the top layer. As Jacques tell me in the schedule this is a "conservitive" lay up schedule (wide margin for error) and with 48 oz of glass plus two of them having matt, I really don't think I need to worry? :help:

2/ I measured twice to make my calculations to have the cloth wrap the stringers with at least 3" on either side going out against the hull surface. if I was to lay up the stringers first (requiring a 16' long, perfectly flat table) i would then use 4 layerrs of 6" tape meaning the last layer of tape would be more then 3" out from the bottom of the stringer across the hull. I added some tape at the deepest point, this should be good? At the tallest point of the stringers it is barely 3" :doh:

3/ At the rear I got the last layer of 1208 on but on the inside two layers end at the same point, as opposed to nicely staggered/tapering out for thickness. Is this sudden "stop" in a structural layup of thick cloth going to put stress on that area? I assume this is why we stagger edges? If so, I'll grind the edge down and add some tape? :doh:

Any comments would be appreciated. At least I know to get help from the alley kid again for the next one. For the outers I can place a board across the inners and sit down :D

Don't mind the felt pen... you can just see the inside edge of the cloth down the hull to the right of the stringer,

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:57 pm
by Hope2float
Nice work man. I know the feeling about working in the hull or hole. It's hell for couple of months then it ends. Good luck and BUILD ON!
Dave

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:16 am
by AtTheBrink
Looks good Mark! Likin' the graffitti, got to get the kids excited and involved somehow right? As for your questions, the only one I feel comfortable answering is the one about staggering the tape ends, #3. I would grind the top layer back 8-10" to create a taper and continue from there, but since this area is never going to be seen I would think you could get away with just overlapping the next section of tape. I might be wrong, someone else is sure to chime in and correct me if I am. :D Keep On Keepin' On!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:45 am
by MarkOrge
Thanks ATB. Just to clarify, this particular concern is that in some areas, my cloth comes down the inside of the stringer, over the fillet, across the hull about 3" then both layers end at the same spot, when they should have staggered 1" or so. It's a little difficult to see in the picture, I'll post another tonight.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:39 pm
by 94Virago
Ohmygod I love that! I'm totally getting all two of my friends to sign the inside of mine!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:18 pm
by tobolamr
I'm totally getting all two of my friends to sign the inside of mine!
Now THAT brought a laugh to my day. Thanks 94V!

Mark - build on! I can't wait to see you get this in the water!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:58 am
by MarkOrge
Thanks Guys - too funny ! My Daughter, her friend, and a couple felt pens were totally occupied for hours while I cut material. Then two neighbor kids got in on it. Now they are all asking what areas will NOT get covered so they can sign their names and open a hatch or something and see their signiture forever. :lol:

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:40 pm
by MarkOrge
FYI gents, I still, would really would like some input on the questions. Shine? CL?

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:48 pm
by MarkOrge
(say this with an Aussie accent)

That's not a fuel tank, THAT, is a fuel tank.

Just came in today from Jersey. SP Sheet Metal Company. Great service, best price, approved (I could not find a fabricator in Canada for marine approved custom tank fabrication)

The tank is obviously going between the stringers, through bulkhead "B" 3" rule pretty much observed....

I call this the "Georgian Bay" tank. No running 45 mins + out to fill up a tank at 1/2 just to return at 3/4 (north channel = remote)

Cheers all

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:44 am
by Walkers Run
Thanks for the chance to use my Aussie accent. You build looks great. I almost hated to put my tanks in the boat they were so good looking.
G-day mate

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:29 am
by Cracker Larry
FYI gents, I still, would really would like some input on the questions. Shine? CL?
Looking great Mark! I wouldn't worry about a few small air bubbles, but I would grind that tape edge and put another staggered layer on it. But you already knew that :P Always stagger.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:15 pm
by MarkOrge
Got the center two stringers finally finished. Man that is a lot of thirsty cloth..... 4 gallons (same layup schedule as the transom) I still need to add some tape to the hull next to the stringers to fix the lack of staggering - mostly sanded and ready for this weekend.... another couple pounds won't kill me....

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:33 pm
by MarkOrge
I learned on this forum how to put multiple clamps top use, my wife was amazed. Started the outboard stringers this weekend, got them both bedded and one filleted and glassed. Worked wet on really wet LOL. The fillet had a couple hours to firm up a bit - just have to use the right diameter laminating roller so as to not "push it in" or distort the fillet. I did a better job of staggering these ones - used a straight edge and felt pen to park the center line of the cloth.

Image

Image

Layup is a little cleaner now.....

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:21 pm
by MarkOrge
OK, I'll be setting the tank in soon. I searched and found responses that make it clear that is is not recommended to have the fuel tank or it's supports right on the hull - major "hard spots" type situation.

So, I am going to epoxy supports as low as possible without touching the hull, on the inside of the stringers. I'll use the aluminum "angle iron" as a mold for the supports (I saw this somewhere" chopped strand and epoxy mix) I'll epoxy those along the stringers, to which I will bed and laminate a "shelf" on top of for the fuel tank to rest upon. The shelf will be 1" divinycell with say 1208 and 12 oz 0/90 both sides. Anyone feel free to jump in with recommendations here. I am basing this pretty much on average pounds per square foot. Total fuel tank weight is about 400 pounds full, spread across almost 10 sq ft. I can likely jump on 1" divinycell with that layup only 16" wide so that is how I came to my comfort zone on this one. Advice ??? :doh:

My main question is, can this shelf also rest/be adhered to the topside of the floor frames or, is that considered stress/hard spot on the hull ?? Bearing in mind I'll be suspending the floor frames by 1/8" so as to spread the load through the fillets etc.... :help:

FYI the floor frames in question are bulkheads "C" and "D". I'll add frames to ensure 24" on center and they will be 2" H80 for those areas as they are "lowered" where the tank nests in between the center stringers.

I'll try and draw something up in 'CADD if that helps? :doh:

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:34 pm
by MarkOrge
Here are some images to help in my seek for wisdom from Y'all:

The top one is showing the "shelf" I refer to, in blue. The one below shows the floor frame/bulkhead cut away for either the "shelf" to rest on (as well as the side supports) or must I leave space so as to not transmit force down to the hull? If I can rest the shelf on the tops of the frames it would be rock solid - it would be laminated to the sides with the mounts AND on the bottom to the tops of the frames.

Again, I may even go floor frames on 12" centers for this area if need be, all' 2" H80 with 2 X 12 ox biax....

:help: :doh: :!:

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:19 am
by topwater
Mark you could put supports under the tank if you wanted to, no hard spots . Think of it as putting frames in
if you do it the same way no hard spots. I used 1 1/2 doug fir epoxy coated and glued in just like a frame.
Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:00 am
by MarkOrge
That's exactly what I was thinking, thanks Topwater ! I'll be sure to leave 1/8" or so under the extra frames (and the ones that are spec'd) and fillet so as to spread the load.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:09 pm
by MarkOrge
My helper had to reschedule our 4rth and final stringer layup from today until tomorrow, so I went ahead on notching and dry fitting bulkheads. I'll do a final trim around the final stringer after. I still have to add additional foam/glass to the bulkheads below the sole (frames) as well as frames themselves on 2' centers, but it's a start.

Image

A couple views of bulkhead D, with "E" removed (access easier for fitting)

Image

"D" viewed from the other side....

Image

"E"

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:16 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Looking good Mark!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:19 am
by MarkOrge
Thanks Casey !
My helper had to cancel this weekend so I did not lay up the last stringer by myself. Instead, I sanded the bulkheads and finished notching them out, and started on "C" as well as the other floor frames. I have to add H80 foam below the sole to the bulkheads so I'll just epoxy the strip of foam across and router the edges and notches out to match the fit. I am also thinking of adding some foam strips across the tops of the bulkheads and capping with a strip of tape so I have 1 1/2" of surface to adhere to the underside of the deck instead of just 1/2".

Image

Image

Image

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun May 05, 2013 9:59 pm
by MarkOrge
I got the foam added and routered out - below is Bulkhead E. I also added a bit 'o' foam to the top where it will mate to the underside of the deck. I'll round off the edges and cap with a piece of tape. You also see the bulkhead higher in the middle - this is to be trimmed as the bottom of the deck has a change in contour in the middle at E and D.

Image

Got bulkheads A and E filleted into place Satirday then realized I did not have Sunday to work ont eh boat - Daughter's dance competition all day - I am going to have to do the non- wet on wet method. Why do we not sand? :doh: :doh:

Also - you'll see a big boo boo - I messed up the cut when I scrided bulkhead A, so I used some foam originally cut for strakes as a large fillet if you will. Once I have the tape on it will be strong as hell and well spread out.

Image

Image

A couple of E filleted in place

Image

Image

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 1:29 pm
by tobolamr
Mark - looking good! I'm so glad to see you making progress again!

Is the ice off all the lakes by you yet? Ours iced out about 10 days ago.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 10:06 am
by MarkOrge
Hi TB, thanks ! Yes all the ice is off now. Weird water levels tho, Georgian Bay is WAY down, one dock where we go for fuel/ice cream cones was high and dry in January, hope they get at least 5' by June.... that is a big body of water.....

On the other hand, the Muskoka region got hit with major flooding, many of my friends who have cottages have docks under 3' of water. When it makes it's way through the system it should help Georgian Bay/Lake Huron.

With the sudden warm weather Pike fishing should be good, and in Lake Simcoe the Lake Trout and Whitefish should really turn on.

A new distraction for me is we just bought a house with a pool. The middle of the summer will be consumed with moving and pool parties. This is actually a good distraction that will also alleviate the feeling that we need to get out of town to a lake every weekend - which takes the pressure of completing the boat for July long weekend.... I just can't stand being away from water of somekind once it gets hot.... I have adjusted my schedule to reflect splashing August or so....not going to stress about it....

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:24 pm
by tobolamr
Good to hear. I got a little lesson on those bodies of water from my cousin, who married a young lady from Canada! I know my father-in-law took me fishing last fall, late, to our favorite local lake. It's about 850 acres, so not too big, but man... It was waaaay low. Probably the same 5 feet or so. Now, I'm hoping with all the snow and rain we've had that it's filled up again.

I agree with the "don't stress it" approach! Some things in life just aren't worth turning into a disaster. :wink:

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 2:55 pm
by MarkOrge
Thanks TB.

Last weekend I got bulkheads/floor frames E and A done, at least for E below the sole. I had some cloth that wasn't going to quite make all the twists to get right over the stringer and, a little that stuck up a little above the top of the frame that I forgot to trim with the knife at half set so out comes the grinder to clean it up.....

I don't know if you can see from the picture but I am quite proud of my staggering of the tape on bulkhead A.... if there is one thing I have learned from all the great builders on this forum and in doing this project, is patience pays off in the form of nice neat layups....

Floorframe/bulkhead E laid up, still needs to be tabbed above the sole level, bulkhead D ready to fillet and layup this weekend:
Image

Bulkhead A tabbed/laid up:
Image

Image

Seats arrived from Llebroc in California today !!
Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat May 18, 2013 1:48 pm
by tobolamr
Those are mighty fine seats!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 5:25 pm
by MarkOrge
Well, I had the weekend with no helper so I procrastinated in glassing in bulkhead/floorframe D, but I did get it filleted Saturday. Since I was by myself I thought I would do something fun - work on the consoles - they have to be done anyway.... :lol:

First I taught the neighbor kid what kerfing is as we need to get the foam into the mold.

Image

I built the mold/shape to hold the foam, over sized as this will just be the basic shape that will be augmented later. The foam is already applied with some drywall screws - I got the idea from the "ribbald" mold used for a foam hull. Foam is SO easy to work with !!

Image

Image

Once I ran tape across and along i took the drywall screws out and did the inside layup and popped the part, placing it in the sun to cure quicker...

Image

Image

Like I said, I'll add to the sides, likely cut it down some, outside still needs glass but I don't want to waste material until I am at the final shape. At first glance the shape reminds me of Gambler Bass boats - not really the look I am going for, we'll see once I get it fitted and cut down. :doh:

Image

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 6:56 pm
by Cracker Larry
That's pretty sharp 8)

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:37 am
by MarkOrge
I got the floor frames trimmed to fit after adding the third layer of H80, then routered the edges for the glass to lay over.

Image

I tacked them in place with the hot glue gun, ready to fillet.

Image

Filleted and ready for glass

Image

Image

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed May 29, 2013 1:27 pm
by tobolamr
Looking good... The console looks good, too! I agree, reminds me of a Gambler, or there was a generation of Nitro's that had a cowl like that, too.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 8:53 am
by AMC
Those are some good looking seats. I get where the three will for a 'bench' like unit, and I understand the two 'stools', but what is the other full seat for?

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 9:12 am
by MarkOrge
When fishing with my Brother in Law and most friends they prefer the "full chair" on the rear deck. (folds down when underway) When I am fishing with guys in my club/in a tournament, I have found that most experienced bass fishermen prefer the "bike pole". So I ordered an extra one for the rear so as to provide the option. The larger of the two bike type seats is what I will be using in the front.....

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 12:31 pm
by tobolamr
Yeah, and when I'm not on the bow, I prefer the full seat! LOL I guess I'm still just an amateur. I also have bad arches :oops: so I like the full seat when I'm on the rear deck because then I don't get such sore feet from being on them the whole time.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 1:33 pm
by MarkOrge
Right you are TB - I often use the seat as well, or at least lower my bike pole so as to be half sitting on it to take the weight off. Some of the guys I know have nothing on the front deck at all - I don't know how they do it - especially on big water like a couple years ago on Lake Erie, fishing shoals, semi - surf conditions as far as I'm concerned 8O

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 3:21 pm
by tobolamr
What really gets me is when they have one of those newer boats with the trolling motor pedal set into a well right up at the nose of the bow. Man, when I'm up there and there is wind and decent rollers, that almost spells me swimming!!! In rough water, I'll end up sitting on that seat, mostly, anchoring my posterior so I don't get thrown off!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 3:56 pm
by MarkOrge
Yup ! :lol:

I don't get how NONE of them are self draining cockpits either - that is why I went with the Phantom. Well, that plus i love the hull lines especially with the spray rail....

Speaking of which - does anyone have any advice on how large a drain hole one should use knowing that when on big water we will take on some waves sooner or later? I was planning on a 2" sized "tube" (conduit) that would be near the scantlings at the rear of the cockpit on either side. They would have a 90 degree turn then exit out the side, dropping 1" on the way to help drain. The turn would prevent waves from splashing in around your feet....

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:52 pm
by tobolamr
Scupper Size - I believe the answer is as big as you can handle! :lol: No, seriously... There was someone here who was heading in with their PH when a storm whipped up and ended up going THROUGH a swell - and they were fine. Not sure how big those scuppers were, though, but do recall they ran the bilge for a while. 2" would be great, but I do believe the feedback will be "Bigger is Better."

Yeah, no self-bailing hulls. I've got that now with my ProCrapt. I mean ProCraft. :oops: :lol: :wink: I am venturing a very uneducated guess that maybe those hulls aren't planned for anything except protected or semi-protected waters, and would never see any REAL seas that could happen offshore. That, and most of us yokels have full replacement insurance. Worst I've had on our tournaments were 3-4 foot rollers on Lake Wissota, white capping. We just headed in real slow, kept our bow into the waves, and tried to not have a following wave break over the back deck. Got in with no problems. I admit that it was kind of unnerving initially, but once we got it figured out, it wasn't the worst.

Edit: You know, I picked on that production hull... To be honest, it's served me very well. I just want the Phantom so I can get into the REAL shallow backwaters where you can see them moving, but never can manage to get to in the boat.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:56 am
by MarkOrge
Got the frames glassed last weekend, next day I placed the tank between the stringers so I could calculate how far forward I could move it and still have room for frames and shelf underneath without coming above the sole. I assumed 1/2" under the sole should be enough for expansion on an aluminum tank....

Image

Image

I used 2" thick H80 from stringer material and tacked the frames in place on 1' centers. The extras won't hurt especially since they are not as "tall" as normal (when a tank is not there. Once these are glassed in the shelf will go in. I plane to use 1" H80 with a layer of 1208 45/45 and 12 oz 0/90 on each side, this should be more than strong enough and provide extra support for the stringers in absence of full height frames (even though I am told we can cut out frames using the 3" rule) I like Cracker Larry's thought process around never being accused of under building....

I must say it took some head scratching and lots of straight edge and level use to get all the frames lined up longitudinally and horizontally, as well as properly spaced...not to mention swuare to the stringers... :doh: I tacked them in place with the hot glue gun. Fillets and glass and planned for this weekend along with the layup and hopefully install of the shelf, then we are on to chase tubes and foam filling !

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:12 pm
by cottontop
Mark, Your work sure is clean and neat. You can tell you think out each step very carefully. She is going to be a pretty boat. John

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:54 pm
by Cracker Larry
I like Cracker Larry's thought process around never being accused of under building....
:D My boats might float low, but they are all still floating :lol:

That is beautiful work, Mark 8)

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:19 pm
by MarkOrge
Wow thanks guys. I have certainly learned so much from this forum and quite honestly not all my work is as clean as what I see here. I could do better if I knew then what I know now.... But that is why we invented things like grinders and dremel tools eh?

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:52 pm
by MarkOrge
Progress the last couple weekends:

Got the frames filleted and glassed last weekend:

Image

I'll use the dremel to clear out the limber holes after this sets

Image

Neighbor kid was over helping again - putting down a tall bead of structural putty for the fluel tank "shelf" to adhere to/bed on

Image

Disregard the poor looking resin in the limber hole - we cleaned that out but I didn't get a picture. I used a brush to get resin on the underside of the foam core to seal it up.

Image

Fuel tank shelf - 1" H80 with 1 layer 1208 45/45 and 1 layer 12 oz 0/90 each side

Image

Placed the shelf on the puttied frames and weighed it down with old resin jugs full of water:

Image

Filleted and glassed the shelf yesterday. The holes are to help drain should water get between the tank and the shelf (I am sure there is a better name for this then "shelf") :lol:

Image

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:07 pm
by willg
Mark, you do some pretty cool things. I've really enjoyed watching your boat come together.

Will

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:17 pm
by MarkOrge
Thanks Will. It's really this board that got me even started down the dark side :D LOL.

I have had a major distraction for the last while, but a good one. We have been thinking of upgrading/moving a little west (5 - 10 blocks) to the more mature part of my town where the hardwoods come right up over the street in the summer and, more importantly while our Daughter is 10 -0 good timing to get a home with a pool. So, packing, some renos in the new place, moving, etc. has impeded production and will continue to do so until we are all settled in and the garage is sorted out. Oh well, no pressure to finish now :lol: An entire other winter to putter away on the finishing, consoles, hatch lids etc.

I love this stuff....
Image

I got the foam filling done (more pics to follow - on another camera) and thank goodness for the timing - all structural is complete so we could life her right on the cradle....what I wantd to share is.... see below how to move a Phantom with no trailer 5 blocks :lol:

Loading her up in the alley
Image

Getting ready to load on the flatdeck
Image

Unloading at the new place - my friend Stephen Bray even turned the bobcat in the driveway to line up the boat with the garage bay
Image

Here are some shots of the new place FYI

Of course the first room to get set up is my wife's home office. My area is teh small corner section :lol:
Image

Got the pool heater and salt water system up and running right away
Image

Front. Sadly, I have a larger garage than I did at the last place, the boat just fits in the single door(s) but the trailer is not going to. She is going to have to live in the driveway. I'll get a good cover and I guess I'll have to lock up my electronics etc. when I get home.
Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:58 am
by Cracker Larry
Nice looking house 8)

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:57 pm
by MarkOrge
Well after 8 months of distractions I am finally back on my project.

Got the Haysonite strips cut and dry fit, we glued them up the next day. Neighbor kid is still helping....

Image

Hoisted the top 1/2 back up to the cieling and got the foam trimmed down, ready to dry fit floor pieces.

Image

Image

Image

Next weekend I can finish final fitting of the floors peices, then lift them out and mount the fuel tank, then glue them down over the tank.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:22 pm
by tobolamr
Mark,

I've been AFF for a while (Away From Forum) and wanted to follow your build. Congrats on the new house, too! Your boat move looked really awesome! I'd love to see video of that boat on the front of that bobcat! LOL

You are coming along nicely! Keep up the great job!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:37 pm
by MarkOrge
I have to fess up - I don't know how, but I got a bit of a dip in my fuel tank shelf. I really have no idea as I checked everything 6 ways from Sunday. So, instead of a hell of a lot of cutting, grinding, and re fabricating, I decided to just shim the bottom of the tank. I beds in a huge bead of 5200 anyway.

I decided to improve my mood by hanging some stuff I had stored away waiting for the Man Shed to get cleaned up.

The Amp is actually a beer fridge..... smoker beside it is about to get a batch of Deer jerky loaded up....

Image

Image

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:43 pm
by MarkOrge
So.... back to the dang fuel tank. Glad it is in, now I can glue the sole down and start on bulkheads.

Neighbor kid "painting" the exposed foam core edge as suggested by the surveyor for "longevity". I guess even foam can get moisture deterioration?
Image

Shims to account for the dip in the shelf:
Image

LOTS of 5200 to bed the Haysite strips, which are bedded on/under the tank itself:
Image

Tank in, walked up and down the edges to "bed" it well on to the shelf:
Image
Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:40 pm
by tobolamr
Glad to see the progress! And nice amp-fridgerator, too!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:32 pm
by MarkOrge
Thanks Tobolamr. You will have to tell me what that handle means someday....

I took the week off as my Wife was in Chicago on business. My Daughter and I had extra time and I had all day to work on the boat. Mom was impressed she came home to a clean kitchen. There is an old Burton Cummings tune with a line that goes like "Momma don't mind what Momma don't know...." We went out each night... like I said, "special time" LOL

Back to boats:

1/2" Coosa board for the sole under hatches, 3/4" HD for the center where we "walk" (console area) weighted down:
Image

Sole filleted and ready for tabbing:
Image

Aft areas filleted and some fairing in the bilge:
Image

Neighbor Kid marking 3" for pre wet of the coosa board where we tab to the scantling:
Image

Ready for tape:
Image

Mostly taped, using the coosa board/sole for wetting out tape, it needs a coat anyway:
Image

Just inside edges to go, tape cut and ready for tomorrow:
Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:44 am
by topwater
Nice progress 8)

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:38 pm
by jorgepease
Looks great, I love coosa board!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 11:03 am
by flyfishingmonk
The boat and the garage look great. Cool pics and nice fridge.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:15 am
by MarkOrge
Newest distraction... (excuse) needed to punch a door from the garage to the laundry room

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:16 am
by MarkOrge
Almost done, just need steps (now done)

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:19 am
by MarkOrge
Lowered the top down for a dry fit, my little angel wanted to earn some "overtime"

Note look on face "really? wee have to sand this entire thing?!!"

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:21 am
by MarkOrge
She does like cutting tape = win - win

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:29 am
by MarkOrge
Got the bulkheads done for rear, they have to tape to the sole. Front ones are done too, taped up underside so the taping is just against the sole. Could not do that for rear due to jogs in bulkheads. We will apply structural putty on the top surface of the rear ones when we laminate the top to the hull.

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:33 am
by MarkOrge
Non structural bulkhead dividers tape getting rolled in by "local non union/low cost labor"
Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:39 am
by MarkOrge
Consoles arrived. Lucky to find a set that included drivers side. From 2008 Champion Elite, never installed. Disregard color, she will be all brite white.

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:40 am
by MarkOrge
Almost ready for gauges...

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:42 am
by MarkOrge
Got the matching windscreens from C and O marine.

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:49 am
by MarkOrge
Bit of a dry fit... Going to get them laminated and faired in, then hoist the deck again to finish as much as possible underdeck, lower back down and epoxy top to bottom. Have to reconcile the seat base height against knee room against vision line just over top of windscreen...

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:32 pm
by AtTheBrink
All this time I figured you were building a center console. I love those side consoles! Going to look like a bass/walleye boat.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:34 pm
by MarkOrge
Hah LOL !

I loved the line of the Phantom as soon as I saw some pictures and decided I would go with a shallow draft flats boat hulled bass boat. I grew up in British Columbia fly fishing in the mountains and salmon fishing at the coast, and never thought for a minute I would get addicted to bass fishing. I also like the tournaments, not the big money ones, just local club stuff.Everyone keep asking me if she will splash this season and with everything else going on I decided she will be done whenever, that way I can enjoy the project. Besides, it's not the work but all the stuff I have to buy to put on her that is going to stretch out now that I took a 8 month hiatus to work on our new (new to us) home and build a deck. Furthermore, not point rushing to launch a boat in October so I'll fess up right now she will probably splash spring of '15 and I'll enjoy not being rushed. Take my time and tinker/get things perfect.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:04 pm
by AtTheBrink
I had the same revelation late last summer. Now I am about 3 weeks out from christening her with fish slime!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:39 pm
by tobolamr
Mark, glad to see your progress! The consoles look pretty good. You mentioned c and o marine - were they out of Tennessee? Or elsewhere?

Also - out of dumb curiosity - how much room is there between the consoles?

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:21 pm
by MarkOrge
Hi TB. Yes, C and O are in White Bluff and Gallatin Tennessee. Not sure which one is the on line store....

There is about 32" between the consoles.

Just started fitting them this weekend after getting my deck railing and laundry room reno finished. I hope to get at least one glassed in and post this weekend.

Cheers !

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:37 pm
by MarkOrge
Updates for late summer/fall....

Got the consoles glassed in and the bulkheads for the front 1/2 of the deck completed. This way taping will be easy when the deck is lowered to fasten permanantly as we will only be applying it along bottom edges inside the rod lockers etc. Hope this makes sense - the bulkheads that are behind the cockpit are fastened to the bottom 1/2 (deck/hull) as the top sufarces can be adhered initially with Gelmajic - the main bulkheads are wider.

Sorry for the crappy pictures... below is the top 1/2 (deck) hoisted up again.

Image

Closer look showing bulkheads:

Image

And showing undersides of consoles. It was a bit of work fitting in foam and making smooth transitions between deck/cockpit and the factory Champion consoles.

Image

Started applying fairing to the hatches:

Image

Image

Got most sanded and applied fairing in the corners:

Image

Got all but the center storage hatch and livewell primed, 3 sanded and first coat of bilge paint:

Image

I'll hopefully have them all sanded and bilge paint on by next week. I am off work right now so can work every day for a while.

Cheers,

Mark

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:46 pm
by Wouter
Looking good!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:57 pm
by MarkOrge
So... got the rear hatches all painted with Epiphanes bilge paint and lowered the top. Then put one coat of primer on the consoles to get a feel/look - had to make everything white as the consoles were purchased and came "blue"

Please excuse the stuff laying around on the deck....

Image

Here is a shot of the ski pole (mostly pulling tubes actually when we are not fishing) that I bought on Ebay and what is really cool, are the brackets my machinist friend CNC'd up from billet aluminum. both brackets go below deck, out of sight, hole through the deck will have a nice bezel of course.... The top and bottom of bulkhead E already have extra glass and will have plenty of Hasonite padding to spread the load.

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:54 pm
by blueflood
Hi Mark,

I absolutely admire your work 8) That building method looks like the ultimate fun.

Marc

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:31 pm
by MarkOrge
Thanks !

I have been chipping away weekends and some nights - got the batteries in and wiring done. Both bilge pumps and all 3 livewell pumps in, one valve left to go. Flow Rite systems has a great product and I got all my parts for the livewell from them. Their interactive online livewell builder tool is great, I recommend checking it out. I ran short of 3/4" hose and have some touch ups to do before hooking all the hoses up, but other than that I am just about done in the rear - much easier to do when the top is hoisted.... The empty battery trayin teh middle section is for the oil tank - happens to fit almost perfect.

Image

The twin deep cycle batteries on the left are for the 24V trolling motor

Image

Center section - 120V and DC chargers.

Image

View from the starboard side. In the foreground are the starting and the 12V aux batteries.

Image

Fuse box, breakers, and negative bus bar

Image

Next finish off the hoses, pumps, and valves then dry fit the top.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:14 am
by topwater
Nice job on the wiring , nice layout and nice and neat .

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:21 pm
by MarkOrge
finished off the bilge area, float switch, 2500GPH pump and two 800GPH pumps for livewell, one with Flowrite selector valve. Tray on right is for oil tank
Image

and one bulkhead in front of that below top of stringer level are some more pumps; another 2500GPH bilge pump and a recirc/pump out for livewell. A false bottom will cover all this tpo allow access but have clear storage above
Image

Dry fit the bow eye - foreshadowing my bling plan with that bezel... Eddie Marine in California
Image

I cut the hatch lids and dry fit them, they still need the little "sides" glued on and glass added top and bottom to stiffen them up. 1/2" Coosa board is great stuff but not stiff enough on it's own to stand on. Top has been glued down with Gel Mgic mating tops of rear bulkheads to undersides of deck, and about a 1 1/2" matching surface all around the outside (deck to top of scantling)
Image

Did the little raised surface for the "seat bench" and dry fit the cockpit seats
Image

Glued the little "sides" on the hatch lids, here they are all stacked up ready for laminate
Image

Put a top layer of 10 oz roving on the hatch kids - here are a couple showing the "poor mans vacuum bagging" technique
Image

On the larger hatches I did full 12oz 45/45 cloth on the underside, and for this one a 6" strip of unidirectional cloth. Smaller lids got tape in an "X"
Image

Doing some more glass work on the lids this weekend. Cheers all. Sure glad snow is gone.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:29 pm
by Wouter
Awesome stuff! I like your seats! Hatches also coming along nicely!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:47 pm
by Cracker Larry
That's the way wiring is supposed to look 8) Nice.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:56 pm
by MarkOrge
Thanks guys!

Got the little supports tabbed in today that support the seat base/shelf thing (don't know if these have a real name)
Image

Finished the layups underside of hatch lids.

With plastic still on
Image

One set up and plastic peeled off
Image

I used different amounts of tape/glass depending on the spans.

Finish seat base tomorrow, a few more tape jobs to do then its prime sand, prime sand, fair, prime sand, etc.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 3:09 pm
by tobolamr
The BBV is strong with this one...

Looking good - and I'm cheering you on! 8)

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 8:43 pm
by cottontop
Mark, have followed your build all the way. Wonderful job. Going to be one cool, one of a kind boat. 8) John

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:58 pm
by MarkOrge
Thanks Gents, appreciate the appreciate the positive feedback!

Got the seat base finished, Hasonite strips glued in where screws go for seats, hole cut for access port to get to fuel supply fitting. Got a nice access port thing to go on there to keep water out. Added spacers beside it to keep middle seat from sitting on the cover.
Image


Got the rod but holder/foot rest for Mrs Orge laminated up and dry fit. Used 3 layers 1/2" coosa board. Disregard the semi circular line of fairing that looks like some fool started to use the hole saw in the wrong place....
Image

Got it glassed in. Looks ugly still but trust me it is strong and once cleaned up and carpet glued on, it will look trick and serve a couple purposes well.
Image

Used some Hasonite and Gel Magic to make a holder to secure the anchor in the front center hatch. Used some fairing to get the last bit 'o' fit just right. I'll put a clevis pin through it and that anchor will no go anywhere when under way. Just to help protect in case things get banging around (I plan to also use at least 20' of 3/16" chain ahead of the rode) I am going to put this on an extra base layer of 1/2" coosa board with a layer of 12 oz added on top, as well as make a couple little bulkheads to divide the locker and hold fenders and lines in place. Also, there is some electrical on the other side of the hatch I don't want banged up. (you can see #4 for trolling motor and #6 for 12V aux distribution at the far side of the locker)
Image

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:12 pm
by MarkOrge
Also got hatches cleaned up on top, some fairing, edges routered, coat of resin, rough sand,and first coat of primer. Here is one of them (others underneath) Some cleaning up and they will be ready to router to countersink the hinges, then final finishing ready for paint. I also got some more holes cut to dry fit hardware and rigging - in front of the hatch you can see one cutout for a cleat.
Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:50 pm
by justin_dwyer
Lookin good there Mark!
Love the anchor bracket :wink:

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:56 pm
by MarkOrge
Thanks Justin. I have to fess up - if you look at the first picture it shows an extra bulkhead at the rear, which of course with the angles would not fit in the locker when I went to put in in :oops:

Don't really need it anyway so cut it off and carried on... 8)

I swear I am doing everything on this project the hardest way possible but like I say to my team at work, we win or we learn. I guess I'll be real smart when I finish this beast.

But seriously I can't say enough about this forum, particularly the tips, tricks, and of course the real clean we see work from the experienced builders.

... and making one of the meets is on my bucket list !

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:07 am
by MarkOrge
I cleaned up everything laying about and put the lids in place. A lot of sanding to go but it is starting to look like a boat.... most everything has been dry fitted now (hence all the holes) The Marshall amp is actually a little fridge....have to have cold beverages on hand to build a boat - one must not allow oneself to get dehydrated ! Safety first.... :wink:

Image

Image

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:37 pm
by snookiehunter
That really looks sharp! Looks to me, like there has been a lot of thought into the hatch covers, among other things.
Also, I've got to get myself an amp/refrigerator. I would be able to hide my beers from "not so pleasant" company. They'll go away quicker if I don't have any beer.....

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:35 pm
by MarkOrge
So... lately busy with summer activities but getting the last of the fabricating done before getting her ready for the paint shop (10,000 hours of sanding primer)

I went to mount the throttle control and realized I did not have enough room between my inner side and the hull for the guts of the mechanism. I built up a panel and hopefully once painted it doesn't look too much like some dumb Bas)(*&d forgot to account for this when building the deck mould.....

Image

I shaped it to sort of match the escutcheon for the throttle, used coosa board for a build up of the required thickness and Hasonite (the red stuff) for the front surface in order to take the crews well. Routered and filleted the shape and laminated it to a panel that again, hopefully looks like it belongs there.

Image

Got my throttle mounted along with the two actuators for the livewell valve controls.

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:42 pm
by justin_dwyer
That's going to be one mean machine 8)

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:24 pm
by terrulian
What did that stainless Bruce set you back? Yikes. 8)

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:01 pm
by MarkOrge
If I recall it was about $120 Canadian. I am getting all my hardware from a local Chandlery right down the street from my office and worked out pricing when I started my project. Many (including my inlaws) will think this is stupid but I have lots of bling planned for this boat. All fun as far as I am concerned. The chrome fire extinguisher goes on the opposite side of that center bulkhead LOL.

I am not sure what everyone uses down south but if you look around an anchorage where we boat (Georgian Bay) the only other anchor types you will see are the ones on boats that are normally tied to the dock all the time. Bruce style is the only choice for serious cruisers up here. This one for mine may be a little large but it will hold. I also have 20' of 3/8" chain ahead of the rode to help hold it down. Its stainless too of course 8)

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:38 pm
by terrulian
That's amazingly cheap. How heavy is it?

I guess it's made by Lewmar? Bruce is, I believe, out of business.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:19 pm
by MarkOrge
I should remember off heart... 5 Kg I believe - about 11 pounds. And I may have misquoted the chain size, i think it is 3/16" ...

My inlaws' Mainship 39 has 3/8" chain.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:28 pm
by TomW1
Mark I envy your fishing hole. The Georgian Bay is beautiful!!! :D We went up there every summer in the late 1960's and rented a cabin on one of the islands and a boat to get to it. I was in my teen's but I remember it every very well.

Your boat is looking great.

Tom

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:05 pm
by Cracker Larry
The claw anchors are the best I've ever used and you sure aren't going to bend it. Works great in mud, sand, rocks, anything. I've got a 6kg galvanized Lewmar claw for my OD 18, with 10' of chain, and when I drop it, we are parked :D Rig it to break away and trip backwards if it gets hung up.

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:56 pm
by terrulian
I used a 44 lb. Bruce for the bower anchor on my 39' Ericson and I have a lot of respect for it. I've had good fortune with CQR and Danforth as well but the Bruce is my preferred anchor. I think it was used to anchor drilling rigs in the North Sea. It's funny, Practical Sailor did anchor tests and the Bruce didn't do very well, so it's not so great for people who read magazines for their seamanship. But what it does is reset itself. I slept soundly with it well dug in.
Very interesting breakaway rig on the chain, CL, never seen that before although I've used a trip line on occasion.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:15 pm
by Cracker Larry
I also have a 10 lb Danforth with chain. It's great in sand and mud, not so much in rocks. You can turn those into a pretzel. On my 30' charter boat I carried a Bruce claw, larger but rigged just like above. I've used CQR plow anchors too, but preferred the Bruce. You can also rig a Danforth or plow in the same breakaway style. As long as the pull is somewhat horizontal this will hold great, but if you get vertical over it, tighten up and pull, it breaks the tie wraps and the anchor comes up backwards. Saved me $100's of dollars over the years. We used to use crab line before zip ties were invented.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:31 am
by MarkOrge
That rigging on the anchor is brilliant!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:56 pm
by justin_dwyer
We use the same anchor on a charter boat I work on and we just use 80lb mono fishing line wrapped through the hole and the chain 5 or 6 times, works just as well. :D

As usual, everything Cracker does looks neat and tidy :wink:

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 7:56 pm
by MarkOrge
Got a little work done late fall that I forgot to update y'all on before starting the crazy hours that are slowly settling doen.....

Fire extinguisher is mounted in the front center hatch (very accessible) in the section adjacent to the anchor/fender well. not sure if that makes sense.. :doh:

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 8:01 pm
by MarkOrge
Hope everyone had a safe and happy holiday season Merry Christmas and Happy New Year !

Got some time this past week to make some more progress - used a guide my Father in Law made to router out the recesses for the hatch hinges. The small section protruding underneath holds it in place (along with my wife standing on it) as well as provides the 1/2" to properly space the hatch against the deck surface.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:26 am
by Cracker Larry
Nice looking fire extinguisher and mount 8) What brand are they?

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:22 pm
by Newt
Cracker Larry wrote:Nice looking fire extinguisher and mount 8) What brand are they?
http://amerex-fire.com/

Newt

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:45 pm
by MarkOrge
After months of priming and sanding, filling sanding priming etc. you now.... I said enough and dragged her on to the newly delivered trailer. Off to the paint shop tomorrow. Looks ugly but she is fair and down to 120 grit, the crew at the shop can finish her.

Will post when she returns in a couple weeks. My painter told me should cure in the shop for at least a week.

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:24 pm
by glossieblack
It must be satisfying reaching such a significant milestone Mark. Congratulations! :D

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 6:19 pm
by jorgepease
Looks great already, what kind of paint? Are you going to an auto paint shop?

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:23 pm
by MarkOrge
Thanks Guys, very satisfying indeed and just fun from here o out - finish wiring and bolt everything back on that was dry fit before. She is going to Beacon Bay Marina's shop - they have a 60' paint bay. The product they prefer is Awlgrip.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:23 pm
by MarkOrge
Thanks Guys, very satisfying indeed and just fun from here o out - finish wiring and bolt everything back on that was dry fit before. She is going to Beacon Bay Marina's shop - they have a 60' paint bay. The product they prefer is Awlgrip.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:59 pm
by TomW1
Hi Mark looks like you'll get on the water this summer. It's looking good and should come home shining with that Awlgrip.

Tom

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:59 pm
by TomW1
Hi Mark looks like you'll get on the water this summer. It's looking good and should come home shining with that Awlgrip.

Tom

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 12:39 pm
by blueflood
Hi Mark,

Holy sh*t Mark...that is a rocket in waiting 8) 8) Yikes :lol: Your work is top-notch; the building materials look like a ton of fun to use. Fantastic job. Colour scheme ?

Marc

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:22 am
by MarkOrge
Hi Blueflood. She is going to be all gloss white, with a navy blue based wrap down the side.

Say, I noticed you are in Ottawa - did you watch and of the Bassmaster's Classic ? Charles Sim from Ottawa Valley South Bassmasters is only the 2nd Canadian to make it all the way to the Superbowl of tournaments through the club system.. He almost made day 3. At one point he was in 11th place on day two. He finished at 31 I believe. I loved his wrap - all Canadian flag(s)

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:55 am
by blueflood
Hi Mark,

Not at all into fishing much, sorry. The closest thing to live fish is opening up a can of sardines, herring, tuna or salmon - or fresh trout or cod fillets from the fish store :lol: Love to eat it though.

Marc

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 7:32 pm
by HiImNuts2
Hi Mark,
You were referred to me in a post on here and I am building a PH16 with a bass boat design in mind. I am a complete boat building novice and have never built a boat in my life but planning to give it the old collage try here. I have two adult grandchildren that love to fresh water fish and they are anxious to get underway with this build. I am looking to build a twin console as well however I cant find anything online that I can either buy or build, I was hoping you have some ideas. I'm looking to make this boat with two seats and a flat platform deck. My plans for the PH16 just came in and I'm totally lost looking at them since the plans reflect a center console. it is in the hopes after reading a few books I'll figure it out and get the build started in the next month or so. I have a great working space and the tools I need I just don't have a clue so I'd like to correspond with you on your build to learn a few things and perhaps make this a possibility.
I hail from the great White North growing up on Cape Bretton Island in Nova Scotia and came to the states with my family as a child in the mid sixty's and have remained a citizen of Canada, I have a summer home in Cape Bretton and am hoping to fish the lakes and inland water ways there. If this request is ok with you I'd like to ask some building questions and perhaps get whatever advice you can give.
Thanks Mark
Be Well
Dave

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 8:32 pm
by Cracker Larry
Mark's PH is a work of art 8)
I am a complete boat building novice and have never built a boat in my life but planning to give it the old collage try here.
Everybody starts as a novice. The trick is, don't try to understand every step at once. Break it down into little bites, like I'm having to do with my new teeth :help: Take it one step at a time. Learn everything you need to do for the first step, which will be the building jig. Take your time and make it strong and true. Then focus on the next step, cutting parts, learn what you need to know, take your time, ask questions before you do it wrong. Then the next, then the next....it's like eating an elephant, one bite at a time. You cannot eat it or absorb it all at once, just take it one step at a time. Learn what you need to complete that step, then move to the next. Many people on this forum with no previous woodworking or fiberglass experience have turned out some mighty fine and beautiful boats. You can too, if you want to.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 8:44 pm
by peter-curacao
Cracker Larry wrote:Mark's PH is a work of art 8)

.
Yeah it sucked we missed him in Toronto, would have loved to see his build, but hey work comes first, him being occupied did give us a great day in Toronto though, what a nice and beautiful city, especially the park on the island 8)

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:30 pm
by MarkOrge
Wow thanks Guys. Sorry I have been busy, my Phantom was supposed to squeeze in just prior to the busy season when about 1000 people in the market area would suddenly want all their work doNE and boats in the water for the Canadian Long weekend, but alas I lost a few weeks. I'll have some update pictures for you shortly as she is back in the garage painted and final steps underway.

Dave - seriously I would consider going with a really basic center console PH18 wood core like the smart guys do it. I did everything g the hard and expensive way as I had a particular outcom in mind.

If I may, time is so precious and I would reccomended the above so you can get on the water with a roomy, light boat sooner rather a than later. My fondest memories with my Grandfather were in a pretty ugly boat and I don't even remember what color it was. Sorry if this sounds preachy.

If you wanted to go composite route I figured a way to router Coosa board for my type of deck instead of building a mould like I did. Tricky stuff and nasty prickly dust too by the way but way easy to work with.

I am in Markham, feel free to drop a line.

Four won sex niner niner five one tree too sex if you want to text

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:47 am
by glossieblack
MarkOrge wrote:I'll have some update pictures for you shortly as she is back in the garage painted and final steps underway.
Looking forward to seeing the pics of her painted. :D

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 4:29 pm
by MarkOrge
sorry guys it has been so crazy busy I have to do some batch updating... I have been remiss in my sharing of recent successes. Got her back a few weeks ago from the paint shop. Although I was not happy with over spray in my hatches... she is one shiny beast. Awlgrip White... they took a long time as with work as I had to pay them to do a lot of the fine finishing and imperfections I just didn't have to got get to. I also didn't quite miss the busy season when they have to get thousands of boats unwrapped from winter and into the water for our boating season. Here she is right out of the shop. Pictures don't do the shinyness justice, she is BRIGHT

Image

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 4:55 pm
by Jeff
Mark, the paint looks great!! Send us some updates when you have time!! Jeff

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 4:57 pm
by Cracker Larry
8) 8) I think if I ever have to paint another one of any size, I'm going to take it a paint shop and have it professionally sprayed too. As many as I've painted, I still suck at it and it takes me forever. I'm slow but I do poor work :lol:

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:22 pm
by MarkOrge
Got her home and put her back on the cradle and in the garage, bolted lots of stuff on that was dry fit, then called up brother in law with the boom truck and put her back on the cradle so we could finish....

Image

Image

Image

Image

And safely on the trailer again... more work to do....

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:14 pm
by stickystuff
I may be wrong but If it were mine I would have mounted the jack plate flush with top of transom.This will allow you to get the full lift out of the jack plate.Any one else? Feel free to jump in on this. Most all I have seen and installed were flush with top as I said. ????? :doh: :doh: :doh:

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:27 pm
by Cracker Larry
I've installed 4 of them and on all 4 the inside plate was just about even with the transom lip, with the top mounting holes 2" below the lip. I've never used the brand he is using though :doh:

Image

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:34 pm
by BarraMan
stickystuff wrote:I may be wrong but If it were mine I would have mounted the jack plate flush with top of transom.This will allow you to get the full lift out of the jack plate.Any one else? Feel free to jump in on this. Most all I have seen and installed were flush with top as I said. ????? :doh: :doh: :doh:
?? Stick around and you will see another one shortly. If I mounted my jacking plate level with the top of my transom I would need a different propellor - a BIG one like an air boat because it would be well out of the water!!! :lol:

I would have thought the position of the jacking plate is more a function of where the prop will position in relation to the water with the jacking plate at it highest position, and also the height of the motor leg.

I actually think I may have to cut my transom down further to allow the motor to go down to its lowest position without interfering with the hydraulic steering ram.

PS: What a sweet looking boat - congratulations!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:02 pm
by jorgepease
Boat looks great. That console is amazing

Jack plate mounted that low may mean you are going to have to pay extra attention to how much you can tilt motor. Mine is mounted at transom height and it still hits if I go to far while all the way down.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:49 pm
by cvincent
Your boat fit and finish is fantastic! I am looking forward to seeing pictures of it on the water.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:16 pm
by Dustinwg
Mark, boat looks great!! Those consoles and all the deck storage blows me away!!

Did you weigh the boat while it was on the crane?

I'm planning on sending mine out for paint by a pro also, if you don't me asking, what did the paint job set you back? I think I have an idea how bad it's going to hurt, but just wanted to hear from someone that has been there with a similar boat.

Also what size motor are you planning on?

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:50 am
by MarkOrge
Thanks everyone.

Jack plate: this is mounted so that on te full down position, the cavitation plate is level with the bottom of the hull, so the entire apparatus is actually as high as it can go. But that having been said, now I need to double check and make sure the shop did in fact do this!

Weight: she is a beast, foam core is NOT lighter, 70 gallons of resin alone, she came out at about 1200 pounds, so she is a tank, not a skiff.

Paint: Awlgrip and primer was about $800, labour another $1600. Not cheap but they did a proffessional job. Of course all of this would be much less in the U.S.

Splash is coming soon...

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:54 am
by MarkOrge
Oops missed a question; I have an Evinrude 115 Ficht that was new on my last rebuild project. I believe it is the same motor as BarraMan's. Runs like a top, sips gas, barely uses any oil. I hope to pay opff what I have spent so far and with the weight to get the zippy performance I like I'll need a 150HO. Evindude G2's should be out in 150's this year or next...

I still have to do Kiwi grip, figure out why my fuel gauge only reads 1/4 when she is now full, do some more wiring, put in some hatch struts, bunch of other little stuff then we will be fishing !

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:18 am
by Dustinwg
Wow, I would have figure it would have been lighter, but I guess all of the infusion you had to do soaked up a lot of resin and all of the decking and consoles added up, but man it looks great!

On the paint, that actually makes me feel pretty good, as I was prepping myself for nearly double that. Did they paint inside all of your hatches also?

I bet that thing is going to fly with a 150 on it! Can't wait to see her done!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:38 pm
by MarkOrge
Thanks Dustin. They did the outside of the hatches, but I did all the insides with bilge paint. I still have to do the underside of the hatches but that can wait.

Hopefully in the next weekend or two I can get the Kiwi grip done, I have no idea how long that will take as I have never done it but it looks simple enough.

I managed to keep resin to cloth ratios good through squeegieing but the layup schedule is hefty - transom and stringers are 4 layers, all 12 oz, with two of them having chop.

TTYL

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:51 pm
by BarraMan
MarkOrge wrote:Oops missed a question; I have an Evinrude 115 Ficht that was new on my last rebuild project. I believe it is the same motor as BarraMan's. Runs like a top, sips gas, barely uses any oil. I hope to pay opff what I have spent so far and with the weight to get the zippy performance I like I'll need a 150HO. Evindude G2's should be out in 150's this year or next...
I still have to do Kiwi grip, figure out why my fuel gauge only reads 1/4 when she is now full, do some more wiring, put in some hatch struts, bunch of other little stuff then we will be fishing !
Nope! There is a 250 hp Yammie Vmav SHO 4-stroke waiting to get bolted onto my boat.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:16 am
by glossieblack
What a great looking paint job. Congratulations! 8) For me it's a no brainer getting a pro to do the painting. After all, how many of us paint out own cars? :D

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:50 am
by BarraMan
glossieblack wrote:What a great looking paint job. Congratulations! 8) For me it's a no brainer getting a pro to do the painting. After all, how many of us paint out own cars? :D
You can get a pretty nice finish with "rolled and tipped" International Perfection paint. :D

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:04 am
by topwater
Wow 70 gals of epoxy 8O Big difference with a foam layup verses ply .

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:05 am
by cape man
I have a cut out in the transom of the OD18 and the top of the jack plate is about an inch below that. The motor can be adjusted onto the plate by picking the holes to bolt.

The boat is gorgeous!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:46 pm
by MarkOrge
Spent most of the weekend prepping for Kiwi grip. Wow this is like paint - 95% of the work is prep but it pays off.

My neighbor Jeremy, who is now a young man since I started htis project 4 years ago is inspecting the prep work on teh rear deck
Image

Janet and I ready to get going on trowelling and rolling
Image

Got most of hte back deck done, here is a teaser. If there was one thing that for me is the biggest impact visually with respects to finishing the project, it is this last step...
Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:52 pm
by Jeff
Mark, Great job!! Looks really good!! Jeff

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 5:59 pm
by jorgepease
I agree, great feeling, looks great!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 11:11 pm
by MarkOrge
Sorry guys, I searched and cannot find how to change title, but Tangles & Snags is splashed !

Still lots to do, fuel gauge readds 1/4 when she is full, GPS speedo inop, still sorting out Raymarine mounts, lots of other stuff but heh, she ride like a dream !

Took out on Lake Simcoe today, headed out to the main lake pinned right into it and what waves she did not eat up we just skipped and bounced. This is big chop guys, 2,3,4 feet and lots of wakes from cruisers mixed in. My heavy tank version of the Phantom plus the full tank (42 IMPERIAL gallons) slowed the boat but crushed most of the shite. My Wife and Daughter love the new boat as they don't experience any spray unless it id wind driven - nothing we can do about that.

Some pictures of the switches - had to have fun - and maybe loosen up

Image

Image

Image

Image

I'll get some nice shots on the water, but for now

Image

Image

Image

Image

Sorry for the crappy light on these pictures guys, lighting is weird in my driveway late afternoons. Also sorry for not being able to figure out that magic edit **SPLASHED **

Preliminary data - 17 pitch 4 blade stainless Evinrude - might be a little much. Pinned but not lifted all the way 5000 rpm, no speed data yet (gps speedo inop, on the list of things to do)

More fun to come !

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:13 am
by glossieblack
Congratulations Mark!

Tangles and Snags is a stunner. You've put in the hard work - now you deserve all the enjoyment coming your way. 8)

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:11 am
by Cracker Larry
She is beautiful Mark! Congrats on the splash 8) You've done a fine job!
Also sorry for not being able to figure out that magic edit **SPLASHED **
Go to the very first post of your thread, and then into Edit mode. You can change the title there.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:20 am
by Wouter
Congrats!! Your boat is fantastic! Now enjoy the fishing!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:06 am
by cape man
Stunning. Beautiful. Awesome.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:08 am
by Cracker Larry
Those switch panels are really cool! How did you go about making the emblems on them?

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:37 am
by cvincent
Beautiful job! I love the custom switch panels and the all white color scheme.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:43 am
by TomW1
Beautiful Mark, now you can slay some bass! 8)

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:46 pm
by BarraMan
Spectacular boat - congratulations!

Lee

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:04 pm
by willg
Hot damn, Mark, she is beautiful!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:31 pm
by MarkOrge
Thanks Guys. Tomorrow will be a better trial. Going to hit the lake at daybreak with my Brother in Law and slam some Hawgs!

The switches: https://www.otrattw dot net

I should have performance data but I think ypu guys are correct already - the jack plate can come up at least an inch. I'll have to lay back there when we are at WOT and see the cavitation plate just below the water at he lowest setting in the plate. This will give me grab in rough water then the ability to bring her way up on a calm morning. What I notices is on the highest setting, I can plane from a stand still so my gut tells me it is low. I can simply hook up to the hoist and bring the plate up a hole or two, engine as well if we need. I didn't want the actual holes any higher as that would start to infringe on the 3" rule?

As always input welcome. Looking forward to the August long weekend in Canada!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:23 am
by MarkOrge
So... dang she rides nice. Ran up the north end of the lake where it turns into a river that leads to a set of locks and had a riot trimmed and jacked up WOT sliding around the bouys like a slalom course. Got a couple nice largies under the bridge and along the lily pads. I don't have the hole shot I did on my last boat but NO big bow rise at take off and she doesn't seem to plane any slower with a full livewell which is over 30 imperial gallons so another 300 pounds. I may drop to a 15 pitch as planed and trimmed at WOT is barely over 5000 RPM and ypu don't want to lug these motors. Back to trim - doesn't seem to make much difference ? Top speed was 42 MPH

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:59 pm
by TomW1
Hi Mark sounds like you have a winner of a boat and she sure is a winner of a looker. As far as props go you need to drop 4" in pitch to go up to about 5800 rpm's if you are running at 5000 rpm's now. So if you have a 17 pitch now go to a 13 pitch for the new prop. This will keep you from as you mentioned from lugging the motor. Most manufacturers have rpm upper limits of around 6000 rpms so you want your top end with end sight of that. Please feel free to ask any questions that you may have.

Tom

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 6:39 pm
by jorgepease
Sweet! Beautiful Boat!!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 5:06 am
by flyfishingmonk
Mark - your boat looks awesome!!!! Well done.

Casey

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 8:47 pm
by MarkOrge
I just realized I didn't ever load up pictures of the entire boat. Here are a couple, plus I'll post some more once I get the Talon mounted.

Image

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 9:03 pm
by seaslug
Truly a masterpiece, a boat you can be extremely proud to own. Looking forward to more pics. Wow!!!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 12:18 am
by TomW1
Mark did you ever change the pitch on your prop?

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 9:50 am
by BarraMan
What a sweet looking rig!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 9:52 am
by Jeff
Beautiful Mark!!! Congratulations!! Jeff

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 9:55 am
by Wouter
Very Cool boat!! :D

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 10:02 am
by topwater
Thats one bad ass bass boat :!:

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:52 pm
by MarkOrge
Heh Guys hope everyone is having a great summer. Here is the latest pic of my PH18 - new Talon 12' shallow water anchor now mounted along with replacing the cable drive TM with a new Minn Kota Riptide Ultrex, and some other finishing touches I didn't have tome for last year.

Question, and likely for the designer if he gets a chance... I assume I am about 1 - 2" sitting low int he water at transom due to the extra 70 lbs frm the talon and the fact I was already a little low due to jack plate etc? She cruises beautifully at about 20 - 22 knots, and obviously is a little heavier than the wood models with less complex hatches / bulkheads etc.

My question is - I may have blown my motor this past week, and if I want to go an Evinrude G2, i am going to be adding yet another 140 pounds to the jack plate 10" aft of transom. What will this do to the waterline at the scupper ? (seen forward of the Maui Jim logo) Ho much more will she "sink" ? I will not ask about performance because I obviously want to scream down the lake when it is glass calm at 07:00 ... and the cruising with family is a given at 20 knots....

Image

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:25 am
by TomW1
Mark I was hoping I could help you but the PPI is not listed in the study plans. You will have to wait for Jacques to answer this. At a rough guess I would think the extra 140lbs would lower your draft about 1/3-1/2".

Tom

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:05 am
by MarkOrge
Thanks Tom. What would be wiser and would add less than 40 pounds would be stick with Etec G1. I'll have to decide. The current 115 Ficht is 384 lbs and upgrading to the 150HO in G1 is 418 lbs - negligible. Unfortunately, the G2's are all over 500 pounds, even staying with a 150HO. They sure are nice tho, especially if one was to order it with the nice blue side panels.... LOL

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:42 pm
by TomW1
Mark don't give up on the G2. Look at moving some weight forward. Your center of gravity is close to the helm area. If you can move 10-15 pounds permanently forward by 8' your good. That will counter balance the 80-100lbs that the G2 weighs more than your old motor or the new G1.

Tom

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:47 am
by topwater
I would not hesitate and would go to a G2 over any older 2 stroke out there . But that's me .

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:15 pm
by MarkOrge
Thanks Guys appreciate the quick feedback. My choices are Etec 150HO (165HP) at only 418 pounds or 200HO (220HP) at 530 lbs. What I really wish I knew is how much of the 55 extra HP (and gas) will be chewed up the extra 110 pound difference?

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:54 am
by cvincent
The 150 HO is a good choice for the weight. I love the options of digital controls & power steering on the G2 models. If this technology ever gets brought over to the 115 class of engines, I would jump on one of these.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:08 am
by MarkOrge
A nice picture from vacation last week starting out in Killarney, Ontario and moving well beyond the cell tower(s) from there. We stayed on the in-laws mainship in teh background, our Phantom tied up along side (when we weren't fishing)
Windows Photo Viewer Wallpaper.jpg

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:11 am
by MarkOrge
Question around weight distribution. I think we are a little heavy in the aft. I can move my trolling motor and accessory batteries from back hatches up to the center forward hatch and that would move 180 + pounds as inicated below. Is that overkill or would it get me where I should be? All input is welcome. Not sure how to calculate from here.... Note the waterline as indicated by the big boat generator exhaust washing up against the scantling while we were tied alongside.....

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:21 am
by MarkOrge
And of course the new Tundra had to come with a coordinating color ....

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:33 pm
by Jeff
Now that is a beauty!! Let Jacques respond back to you on the battery placement!! Jeff

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:14 pm
by Fuzz
Beautiful boat :!: What power is on it and how does it run?
The waterline shows it to be pretty tail heavy. I am sure moving some weight forward is going to help things a bunch.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:04 am
by BarraMan
Wow, great looking boat! However, it is clearly very tail heavy.

I think its a no brainer - move your trolling motor batteries to the front, then see how it sits.

I can't do the maths, but ideally the trolling motor batteries should be close to the motor anyway.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:04 am
by OrangeQuest
You could always just move the batteries to see how much it improves the trim. If it is enough then do the rewire.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:17 am
by topwater
Move them forward it will help .

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:54 pm
by MarkOrge
Thanks everyone. I was wondering if anyone may have a calculation, but yes I can just do it. To move anything back is going to be a PITA due to all teh wiring that I have to re-do.... I plan on moving 3 - 2 for 24V TM and the one for 12V accessories (dedicated starting battery is #4)

Perhaps what I will do is move two, then the third if need be.

Power is a 2004 Evinrude 115 Ficht, purchased new (on my previous boat) 344 hours to date, runs like a top no issues ever, sips gas (except on tournament day when it seems to have only one throttle setting LOL)

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:01 pm
by DAYTRIP
If Jacques can tell you where the design center of gravity is you can then figure out where your actual cg is then move things around. To figure out where it is you could weigh the boat and trailer. Then weigh the tough weight. With that you can figure out the actual cg then with that how much you have to move. My guess is the cg should be 1/3 the length forward of the transom?

All that said Jacques is the expert and designer. You don’t want to move forward of the design cg as bow steer might become an issue? Boat looks great ! Nice work. Envy you boating in that area.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:16 pm
by Jaysen
Could you just put the boat in some water, disconnect the trolling bats, move them forward a bit, then see how she sits? Might be easier than the math.

;)

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:30 pm
by BarraMan
Jaysen wrote: Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:16 pm Could you just put the boat in some water, disconnect the trolling bats, move them forward a bit, then see how she sits? Might be easier than the math.;)
Yup! You don't have to be Einstein to see that that boat is seriously tail heavy. The trolling motor batteries (2 x ) are a no-brainer relatively easy move for starters.

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:48 pm
by TomW1
Mark you can do the calculations on how much you need to move forward. Assume the COG is 42% from the transom at the water line. Then say a battery weighs 60 lbs and distance from where the battery is no is 10' so you move it to the COG that is 600 lbs then you move it another 4' forward and that is another 240lbs. So by moving that one battery you have changed the weight of the effective COG by 840lbs. What you can do is take one of your batteries and move it forward and see how much a difference it makes, before you do any permanent changes. This will give you an idea of how many you might actually have to move. You may only need to move your trolling battery and house battery forward.

Tom

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:05 am
by BarraMan
All true Tom but ..........

24V trolling motor therefore 2 x 12V batteries to run it. These are the easiest batteries to move cause it would only involve rerouting and shortening the cables. I cant imagine moving only one. Ideally they should be close to the TM anyway. Moving the house battery would involve more rewiring. I suggest you just move the TM batteries to a forward position only (without touching the cabling) first to see how the boat sits. Then if it looks OK remount and rewire them. Looking at how that boat is sitting now I’m gonna be surprised if that moves the C of G too far forward.

Just saying!

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:38 am
by flyfishingmonk
Hi Mark,

Quick question. Do you feel the 115 is enough power? My PH is almost 20 feet long. I lengthened if forward of bulkhead B.

Thanks for your input.

Casey

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:52 pm
by MarkOrge
Sorry for the delay Casey, just saw this, must have missed it in my trolling ...

If you want to cruise she is fine. If you want to fly on calm mornings / blast off at bass tournaments no. Mine tops out just below 40 MPH trimmed and jacked with 13 pitch 4 blade stainless Evinrude prop. I could possibly get a little more going to 15 pitch but I like the hole shot and pulling power vs top end as I also pull tubes with a full boat.

What is odd, but no surprise to me, is a V6 G2 250HO actually gets lightly better mileage (at cruise only) than the G1 115 V4. Just look up the performance reports on the Evinrude site. So the second finances allow, I am going with a min 200HO G2. They are not even breaking a sweat at cruise speed so just sip gas and if you want to scream and fly on those glass calm mornings (and burn 3X the gas) you have the option. Just my outlook on life. To use another anology, who buys a 250 HP V6 Corvette? It would "cruise" the same as the 550HP model but then if that is all you want to do why are you buying a sports car?

Assuming we drive responsibly, I am a firm believer there is no such thing as too much horsepower given the same weight. Tangles & Snags is not a light boat with the extra resin and cloth I needed for foam core, but she is bullet proof and with the layup schedule Jaques provided and in his words I can hang anything I want so, why not have the ponies for Saturday morning when I want to have some fun. Once the lake is rough and choppy I just slow down. Like Lake Erie last fall... beautiful day and calm launching on the upper Niagara, but once out on the lake you could barely plane. At least if you wanted to stay safe and not bang the hell out of your back and the boat.

Sorry for the quasi rant and wandering but wanted to give yo a full answer.

Stay tuned for updated pictures with new G2....

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:03 pm
by flyfishingmonk
MarkOrge wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:52 pm Sorry for the delay Casey, just saw this, must have missed it in my trolling ...

If you want to cruise she is fine. If you want to fly on calm mornings / blast off at bass tournaments no. Mine tops out just below 40 MPH trimmed and jacked with 13 pitch 4 blade stainless Evinrude prop. I could possibly get a little more going to 15 pitch but I like the hole shot and pulling power vs top end as I also pull tubes with a full boat.

What is odd, but no surprise to me, is a V6 G2 250HO actually gets lightly better mileage (at cruise only) than the G1 115 V4. Just look up the performance reports on the Evinrude site. So the second finances allow, I am going with a min 200HO G2. They are not even breaking a sweat at cruise speed so just sip gas and if you want to scream and fly on those glass calm mornings (and burn 3X the gas) you have the option. Just my outlook on life. To use another anology, who buys a 250 HP V6 Corvette? It would "cruise" the same as the 550HP model but then if that is all you want to do why are you buying a sports car?

Assuming we drive responsibly, I am a firm believer there is no such thing as too much horsepower given the same weight. Tangles & Snags is not a light boat with the extra resin and cloth I needed for foam core, but she is bullet proof and with the layup schedule Jaques provided and in his words I can hang anything I want so, why not have the ponies for Saturday morning when I want to have some fun. Once the lake is rough and choppy I just slow down. Like Lake Erie last fall... beautiful day and calm launching on the upper Niagara, but once out on the lake you could barely plane. At least if you wanted to stay safe and not bang the hell out of your back and the boat.

Sorry for the quasi rant and wandering but wanted to give yo a full answer.

Stay tuned for updated pictures with new G2....
Ok great feedback. Very helpful.

I wonder how much heavier, or lighter, the wood version is. I assume maybe a bit heavier?

Thanks!

Casey

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:05 pm
by flyfishingmonk
Accidental post... but wont let me delete.

Casey

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:05 pm
by flyfishingmonk
MarkOrge wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2016 7:56 pm Got a little work done late fall that I forgot to update y'all on before starting the crazy hours that are slowly settling doen.....

Fire extinguisher is mounted in the front center hatch (very accessible) in the section adjacent to the anchor/fender well. not sure if that makes sense.. :doh:

Image
Where did you get that cool looking mount?

Casey

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:23 pm
by TomW1
Hi Casey saw this and want to follow up on the motors. The smallest G2 150 HO is less that 100lbs more than the G1 115 HO you are thinking of and you have added weight on the bow. So I would not be afraid of going with it as Mark says. While I don't think you need the power he suggests a little extra is not bad. The G2's are more efficient and totally a better motor than the G1's. Just something for you to think about.

Tom

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:49 pm
by MarkOrge
Hi Casey. I got the mount and most all of my bling from Eddie Marine.

For weight, Jaques mentioned the foam core may actually be a little heavier due to the additional glass required. Bone empty not even hatch covers I was exactly 2000 pounds including the trailer, not sure what the trailer weighs. I want to weigh mine one of these days. What really adds up too is all the batteries, Talon, Talon mount, jackplate, tackle, etc. It turns out the 15 pitch Evinrude 4 blade Rogue runs well. I actually use a 13 pitch so it doesnt have to work as hard, and I only rev out when empty and light. Those Fichts don't like to be lugged, they like to run. I still have to get the batteries moved up to balance her out - tail heavy as you can see from an earlier post.

Loving all your wood work by the way, your build is a work of craftsmanship.

I am already pushing away thoughts of building again - go for the 22 ! The front deck would be palatial.... maybe in a few years when work slows down / semi retirement....

Re: Mark's PH18 in Toronto

Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:35 pm
by MarkOrge
Update on weight and balance - moved my three group 31's up to what was the anchor and fender locker and it worked out perfect. See picture below from the long weekend up on Georgian Bay. I think the smallmouth bass like it better too! I can tell the difference in ride and no more porpoising when I trim it up for speed. The water is a little wavy from passing boat traffic but she sits perfectly level when measuring the rub rail to the water line.

The question, possibly for Jaques - now that she is level, are we able to determine the weight of the boat fully loaded by measuring the draft at the transom?

Image

Image