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FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 1:23 am
by whosmatt
Tomorrow, it begins. I have spent the last couple of weekends cleaning out the garage, poring over plans, making decisions, sourcing materials, etc. As it turns out, San Diego is a great place to be in the boat-building profession, pastime, hobby, what-have-you. At 8AM tomorrow I pick up my plywood, purchased locally from a lumber supplier around Miramar. I'm getting 6 sheets of 6mm, as specified in the plans, and 8 sheets of 9mm (the extra two being devoted to the console). Speaking of which.....

One of the hardest parts of getting this whole thing off the ground (besides picking the FS17 as the most capable hull that my miniature SUV can tow) was deciding on the layout. I have chosen a combination of the open workboat layout with a console and a narrower gunwale. I'm going to go with the low front deck of the open layout, a console with seat, and the narrowest gunwale I can get away with. I'm sure my decisions will be modified as I go, but that's the plan for now.



-Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 1:43 am
by TomW
Welcome Matt glad to have you aboard. Did you compare your epoxy costs plus fiberglass to purchasing the kit price for the FS here. It is seldom that the total cost can be beat. But if you can get West or MAS epoxy there for less so be it.

Will enjoy your pics of your boat coming together.

Tom

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 12:06 pm
by Bowmovement
Welcome Matt,
Last time I called Frost all they had was Okume. I guess they carry Meranti now. Where did you find your epoxy if you dont mind me asking. If ya ever need any help let me know. I havent got to start my build yet but would like to see one in person.

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 1:03 pm
by whosmatt
Bowmovement wrote:Welcome Matt,
Last time I called Frost all they had was Okume. I guess they carry Meranti now. Where did you find your epoxy if you dont mind me asking. If ya ever need any help let me know. I havent got to start my build yet but would like to see one in person.

Matt
I haven't bought epoxy yet -- just got back with the plywood. I'm planning to get the epoxy from AeroMarine Products in San Diego. Frost did have Joubert Okume, but I went with the Hydrotek. It is listed on the invoice as "mahogany." The wood itself is stamped "Hydrotek BS 1088." I will definitely let you know if I need a hand. The next thing I have to do is get some tools --- my last project left me with a good DeWalt angle grinder (the cheapo I bought first ground to a halt --no pun intended-- halfway through the project) but I have only a cheapo jigsaw and no circular saw. I'm curious as to how much I will actually use a circular saw during this project... I'm thinking of getting the 6.5" Rigid framing saw but may go cheaper as I suspect I'll use it during the initial cutting of the plywood but very little if at all after that. But who knows, this project may ignite a passion for building. The one thing I'm planning to buy for posterity is the 6" right-angle porter-cable sander, as I feel that will get used and used some more during this build.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 6:45 pm
by whosmatt
While I had the uhaul trailer, I went ahead and made a trip to home depot for a couple of 16' 2x6s and a couple of sheets of chipboard for my jig. I thought long and hard about how to start my photographic documentation.... so, without further ado, I give you:
Image
my sweet (but dumb) dog trying to eat one of the 2x6s. hopefully this isn't a frequent occurrence.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 7:53 pm
by mechdave
If you could teach him to only take off one ply he could be helpful for preparing panels for splicing. :D

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 9:01 am
by capnmike
whosmatt wrote: I haven't bought epoxy yet -- just got back with the plywood. I'm planning to get the epoxy from AeroMarine Products in San Diego. Frost did have Joubert Okume, but I went with the Hydrotek.
-M
Matt,

I called Frost last week and they had Joubert and Hydrotek as well. Even before shipping the costs were like $3-$4 dollars cheaper than this site lists here.

I stopped by AeroMarine and picked up their epoxy last week. I've never used any type of epoxy before but according to the specs it's as strong or stronger than anything out today. Their office is really small off the Morena exit on the 8 or the Clairemont Mesa exit off the 5.

Good luck on your project!

CM

PS The first pieces of my project I used a circular saw and they came out not so fair (and these pieces had a nice little curve to them). The last couple pieces I used a jigsaw and was right on the money.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 11:28 am
by hagar
Great to see another build started, you will have lots of fun. The folks on this board are top notch providing help, you will have no problems that can't be fixed with their help.

You're right about using the circular saw in the beginning and not so much after. I used a circular saw for my od18 panels and was surprised at how easy it is to cut curves, especially after all those many years of trying to cut straight! There are a couple of things that I found helpful when cuttinmg curves with the circular saw, maybe they will help you. I cut my panels on the garage floor with some sacrificial chip board underneath which kept everything flat. Setting the blade just deep enough to cut througth the panels helped when cutting the curves, less blade engaged equals less "straight" blade section in the panels as you cut. Take your time and follow the line with the blade on the more tightly radiused sections instead of the notch on the saw frame. I think the most helpful thing for me was the blade. I used a Freud Diablo carbide tipped blade. They are cheap, it's been a while, but it cost less than $20.00. Great blade, it is still on the saw today cutting whatever is needed. I don't know if your plans have tighter radii than mine, so it may be different, but I am glad I used the circular saw as I wouldn't have been able to lay the panels flat on the floor if using a jigsaw.

Don't worry about the dog eating the boards, he probably won't eat too much anyway and it's good fiber. Many others on this board have dogs for helpers. They eventually get epoxied to parts of the boat, topcoats on their coats, etc. They and the boat survive it. :)

Hagar

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 11:43 am
by Daddy
hagar wrote: Don't worry about the dog eating the boards, he probably won't eat too much anyway and it's good fiber. Many others on this board have dogs for helpers. They eventually get epoxied to parts of the boat, topcoats on their coats, etc. They and the boat survive it. :)
Hagar
Don't count on it. Keep the dog away from sanding dust and any other toxic crud. You can wear a respirator, he can't. A little epoxy in his fur is humerous, toxic crap in his lungs isn't. :cry: We already lost one dog on this forum.
Daddy

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 11:46 am
by Boater45
hagar wrote: Many others on this board have dogs for helpers. They eventually get epoxied to parts of the boat, topcoats on their coats, etc. They and the boat survive it. :)

Hagar
Be careful sanding around pets and small ones.....at least one boatbuilder lost a dog to the evils of epoxy/fiberglass dust.

Welcome to the site and look forward to you progress pic's. We like our boat porn around here!!! 8O

Will

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 8:40 pm
by chicagoross
I've used MarinEpoxy fromo this site for the past few builds, but used AeroMarine for the presious two. 5 and 6 years later no problem with the epoxy, and the guy there is really helpful. It does blush, though so be aware - you may have some extra scrubbing and sanding.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 1:23 am
by whosmatt
capnmike wrote:[ I've never used any type of epoxy before but according to the specs it's as strong or stronger than anything out today.
My previous experience with epoxy was with generic stuff from US Composites. I got used to working with it (used about 7 gallons) and then bought a quart or two of MAS to finish up a few tasks at the end of the project. I couldn't tell any difference except for the price, and perhaps that the generic stuff was more clear when first mixed. Read a bit about "amine blush," supposedly that is the difference with the $$ stuff.

For all those concerned about the dog, I promise I won't allow her to eat anything she shouldn't. I wish I had video of me carrying those 16' 2x6s across the yard, and her trying to drag one with her mouth. Priceless.

I'm taking it slow, learning how to use my tools again (it's been a while). I lost a bit of time and some particle board to the learning curve with my new circular saw, but I drew out my transom tonight and made my first cuts in the real stuff. It really smells good, i can see why the dog thinks it's food.

Cheers,

Matt

edit: i didn't see the previous post until after i first posted this, but thanks... i'm not really trying to be a cheapskate, just trying to support local businesses and maybe not give UPS any more of my money :D

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 8:09 am
by Daddy
It's the dust in the air that gets the dog, child, even you if you don't wear a respirator when sanding. :|
Daddy

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 7:38 pm
by hagar
Hey, just to be clear, I don't let my dog or children or anyone else for that matter, in the garage area while sanding is happening. Actually, not until all of the dust is all vacuumed up and damp mopped. I didn't mean to infer that epoxy/fiberglass dust was ok to be around, just assumed we all knew better and didn't think to mention that. Thanks to all for clearing that up.

Hagar

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Mon May 31, 2010 10:32 pm
by Bowmovement
Hey Matt,
Any progress on this vessel? Interested in following this one.

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:44 am
by whosmatt
Bowmovement wrote:Hey Matt,
Any progress on this vessel? Interested in following this one.

Matt
Yep. I have a Picasa web album up of fuzzy iPhone pictures (not about to get epoxy/dust around my good camera). I built the frame for the strongbacks today, struggled with it as the beams are not entirely straight. I ended up with something I hope will work. Haven't braced the legs yet, wanted to get it upright and put a bit of weight on it before adding final bracing. I'm sure i'm running into all the trials and tribulations of a first time builder, the transom lamination isn't pretty but it's very strong :D. I'm pretty sore from hitting it for three days straight.
http://picasaweb.google.com/matt.boswell/BoatBuild#

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:34 am
by steve292
Nice looking strongback.....one thing tho' i'd brace the legs both ways, the hull gets heavy, & you want to be as stable as you can.
Steve

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:09 am
by whosmatt
steve292 wrote:Nice looking strongback.....one thing tho' i'd brace the legs both ways, the hull gets heavy, & you want to be as stable as you can.
Steve
I plan to brace it, just ran out of time last night. I do want to put some weight on it before I brace it-- make sure it remains level, that sort of thing.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:30 am
by whosmatt
I've got my jig mostly assembled, new pics are up on the picasa album. Used a water level to level it as well as I could and pulled a taut string across the center line; lined up all my molds to that. Need to shore them up and make sure they are lined up nicely and in a proper plane. It's starting to resemble a boat. I like that.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:49 am
by whosmatt
I only made a little progress today; I re-checked everything and found that I had missed my original alignment between A and B, so everything was a little off. Corrected that, lots of measuring, and threw the transom on there. It took a while, but I have gotten everything as square as I can get it, measuring from the corner of mold B to the corner of the transom (diagonal) gives me about 1/4" (137.375 vs 137.625) difference between sides. Since the plans say that's good enough, I'm gonna roll with it. Should begin stitching tomorrow.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:30 pm
by whosmatt
Stitched today -- had a bit of a tough time as my bottom panels were binding at the keel forward of mold C and keeping the bottom from sitting down on the stringers. I climbed up there with my trusty angle grinder and shaved off enough to create a nice gap and allow them to lay down better. One thing that is perturbing me a bit is that one corner of my transom is definitely showing the 1/4" discrepancy in the diagonal, pictured below:
Image

another view:
Image

I feel confident, having worked with epoxy before, that I can make this very strong and pleasing to the eye with a bit of work. But, I'm a bit worried about the symmetry. Shall I just carry on?

Everything else seems pretty good. The bow, mercifully, seemed to come together fine. There is a low spot near the chine on the port side but it's well within the reach of fairing. My picasa gallery has some pics (taken with a real camera!) of the hull as it stands from multiple angles both inside and out. Here's the link again: http://picasaweb.google.com/matt.boswell/BoatBuild#

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:47 pm
by gstanfield
Well, you want the boat to be square, but as long as it is square then the gaps are actually kinda good. One of the thigns I did wrong at first was trying to make everything a tight fit and that left no room for epoxy. A small gap is good from what I hear.

So I guess, my suggestion is to check the hull for squareness and if all is well forget about it :D

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:04 pm
by whosmatt
Well, I checked my diagonals from the corner of frame B to the transom corner and they were 1/4" off, which the plans say is ok. So I think that's where the discrepancy comes from. Not sure how best to measure now that the hull is stitched.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:38 pm
by gstanfield
Well stop worrying and start building :D One of the best aspects of this composite construction method is that thigns don't have to be perfect. 8)

George

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:15 pm
by Bowmovement
Looking good Matt :D

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:59 am
by whosmatt
Didn't work on the boat too much during the week, but I did spend some time making sure everything was square. Last night I mixed up some epoxy and saturated the edges of the wood:
Image

Today, I mixed a batch of putty w/ wood flour and spot-welded the hull together:
Image

Epoxy is taking a long time to cure right now due to the cool weather we've been having, but today was nice, and the hull seems to have set up nicely. One note, if you recall my lamentation in a previous post about the gaps @ the transom, I picked up the bow and gave it a hard shove toward the transom and that seemed to move all the hull panels back on the jig a little better; everything seems to fit great now, and a quick measurement with a string from the bow tip to all four corners of the transom looks good. Plus, the hull is laying a little tighter on the stringers forward of mold C now.

I've got a Porter-Cable 6" RO sander w/ vacuum kit (you know the one, i'm sure) arriving on Monday. Probably won't get a lot of work done this week as my sister is coming to visit but looking forward to getting on with the build. One nice part of this process is that I don't have to rush... need to save for a trailer and down payment on the motor (If I decide to go new) anyway.

-M

edit: anyone have a good source (local or online) for abrasives?

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:15 am
by gstanfield
Napa carries quality abrasives or grab your local phone book and find am automotive paint store, they will have good stuff. The money you spend buying good abrasives will be saved by them lasting longer and doing the job better. With cheap sand paper the grit will rub off quickly and cost more in the long run due to using more sheets.

I think they sell abrasives through bateau.com as well

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:59 pm
by speedgoat
Congratulations on starting your new build. I'm currently in the process of deciding which plan I will go with.

Just curious, what made you decide on the FS17? That's one of the plans I'm considering, but I'd appreciate hearing your decision criteria.

I'm also in San Diego. I live in Point Loma, and if you ever need any help with anything let me know. I'd be glad to help out however I can.

Good Luck

-Scott

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:42 pm
by whosmatt
Welcome -

I chose the FS17 because I wanted something small and relatively light (don't need a truck to tow) and sea-worthy.

I wanted it to perform well with 30hp or so, weigh ~1500lbs with motor, trailer, gear, etc., and be able to get out of the bay and explore in good weather. Plus, it's a good-looking boat, you have to admit :D.

Another Matt, Bowmovement, is also a SD (county if not city, not sure exactly) resident....

I am doing my best to do all the work that I can myself, but there will come a time when I need those extra hands... when I flip, I plan to cook on the grill and get some good beer and invite folks over to lend a hand... I'll probably need all the help I can get then!

-Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:48 pm
by whosmatt
A general update -- Got the seams taped last night. I was a bit worried about my radiusing but everything seems ok with the exception of a few spots around the transom. I felt like I was taking a LOT of material off but apparently not enough. I've dealt with air bubbles before; I'll take the grinder, knock em down, fill with epoxy putty before i put the wide glass on. I did everything all at once, so the seams that get 2 layers of tape got them both in one application.
laying it all out dry:
Image

and wet:
Image

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:45 pm
by Lower
Looking good Matt. I've been watching your thread and have been meaning to post. It's fun to see the boat start to come together. Keep up the good work. Look foward to the next pics...should be a hull all fiberglassed!

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:39 pm
by Bowmovement
whosmatt wrote:
Another Matt, Bowmovement, is also a SD (county if not city, not sure exactly) resident....

I am doing my best to do all the work that I can myself, but there will come a time when I need those extra hands... when I flip, I plan to cook on the grill and get some good beer and invite folks over to lend a hand... I'll probably need all the help I can get then!

-Matt
I live up in North County. Carlsbad area actually. Whenever you need some help just hollar. I am free most of the time, except Tuesday nights, company softball team.

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:55 pm
by whosmatt
Lower wrote:Looking good Matt. I've been watching your thread and have been meaning to post. It's fun to see the boat start to come together. Keep up the good work. Look foward to the next pics...should be a hull all fiberglassed!
Yep. That's coming this weekend. Thanks for the words of encouragement. Looking forward to seeing some more of your build.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:14 pm
by whosmatt
Bowmovement wrote:
I live up in North County. Carlsbad area actually. Whenever you need some help just hollar. I am free most of the time, except Tuesday nights, company softball team.

Matt
I'm down in City Heights, Cherokee Point actually, just between the 805 and the 15 before they merge. I work in Carlsbad, though, at a software company just off Palomar Airport Road, so I make the drive every day. It can be trying, but I ain't complaining. Lots of folks haven't got work.... anyway, looking forward to meeting some folks.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:48 am
by Bowmovement
whosmatt wrote:
Bowmovement wrote:
I live up in North County. Carlsbad area actually. Whenever you need some help just hollar. I am free most of the time, except Tuesday nights, company softball team.

Matt
I'm down in City Heights, Cherokee Point actually, just between the 805 and the 15 before they merge. I work in Carlsbad, though, at a software company just off Palomar Airport Road, so I make the drive every day. It can be trying, but I ain't complaining. Lots of folks haven't got work.... anyway, looking forward to meeting some folks.

-M
I also work off of Palomar Airport Rd. Just moved up here from Lemon Grove. Used to make the same drive. I know your pain.

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 6:07 pm
by whosmatt
Just got done glassing the port side. This was my first time not coating the wood w/ epoxy before laying out the glass, but with pieces this big, I just couldn't do it that way.

Glass laid out:
Image

Epoxy measured:
Image
Image

I'm using 3:1 so the combo makes an even pint. I should have (and will) use larger batches for the next part.

The result:
Image

For some reason, I brought the big piece up this far and then stopped (i think it was because I didn't want to drag my glass in the dirt).
Image
So, I took the part I trimmed from where it hangs over the sheer and glassed it on like this:

Image

It's probably going to cost me in fairing.... Thinking I'll probably do the other side the same way so at least it's symmetrical :P

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:08 pm
by whosmatt
Ok. starboard side done. This one went a little quicker... I used the roller, chip brush and laminate roller and just poured the epoxy straight from the mixing cup and worked it from there.

Cloth rolled out:
Image

Jello shooters for boat builders :D
Image

Ended up with a pencil shaving in there somehow (when I was taping the chine):
Image

done!!!!! (with the easy part) :D :D
Image

if it wasn't for that stitching, i'd just leave it like this. it's pretty:
Image


-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:17 pm
by whosmatt
Working on getting the transom glass on this morning... question about what comes next. Study plans say to fair now and install the rubrail as the last step before flipping, but many build threads show the rubrail coming before fairing. Just wondering what advantages/disadvantages there are to either as the next step.

Thanks,

-M

PS (an edit): is 2" wide ply enough for the rubrail? I plan to do 3 layers of 6mm.

PPS (another edit): found posts in lungboy's build thread that suggested 45mm so i'm going with that, or the 1.75" equivalent.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:19 am
by speedgoat
Looking good Matt. Getting that done has to be a good feeling.

If any of you SD boys are up for getting a beer and talking boats, fishing, or anything else some time, let me know. I think having a few like-minded local folks around during a boat build could be a handy thing.

I also happen to like drinking beer with like-minded folks. :D

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:39 am
by whosmatt
speedgoat wrote:Looking good Matt. Getting that done has to be a good feeling.

If any of you SD boys are up for getting a beer and talking boats, fishing, or anything else some time, let me know. I think having a few like-minded local folks around during a boat build could be a handy thing.

I also happen to like drinking beer with like-minded folks. :D
I'm nearly always down with that :D. In addition, I'm pretty new to the area (have lived here less than a year) and am kinda on the outs w/ the wife (not because of the boat!) so I could probably stand to meet some people. Matt (the other one), you in? Also, either of you guys are welcome to stop in and have a look at the build. I'm not entirely proud of everything but it's my first try at this so I expect a few trials and tribulations.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:08 pm
by Bowmovement
whosmatt wrote:
speedgoat wrote:Looking good Matt. Getting that done has to be a good feeling.

If any of you SD boys are up for getting a beer and talking boats, fishing, or anything else some time, let me know. I think having a few like-minded local folks around during a boat build could be a handy thing.

I also happen to like drinking beer with like-minded folks. :D
I'm nearly always down with that :D. In addition, I'm pretty new to the area (have lived here less than a year) and am kinda on the outs w/ the wife (not because of the boat!) so I could probably stand to meet some people. Matt (the other one), you in? Also, either of you guys are welcome to stop in and have a look at the build. I'm not entirely proud of everything but it's my first try at this so I expect a few trials and tribulations.
Bugs Bunny got cotton balls? Always down to meet new folks and have some beers. Gonna be kinda busy this weekend with it being the 4th and all. But other than that I am free most of the time. I would like to check out your build. FS17 is what I would like to build. That boat should work perfect for this area.

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 3:38 pm
by whosmatt
I got my first layer of rubrail glued on this morning.... about to start on the other side. I used a combination of temp screws and clamps to get the bow strip to conform without kerfs. Just picked up another 30 clamps at the home improvement circus.
Image

I also picked up a couple of cabinet knobs, a box of norton 3x 60 grit and some 3M spray adhesive to try and make a fairing board... i got the biggest wooden cabinet knobs they had but they seem kinda small.. if all else fails, i'll just buy the real thing.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 6:45 pm
by Bowmovement
Looking good Matt! 8)

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:24 pm
by whosmatt
here's a pic of both sides of rubrail on (one layer) as well as those air bubble holes on the bow and keel filled w/ the leftover glue i had in my pot:

Image

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:29 pm
by Bowmovement
You'll be flipping that thing before ya know it

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:51 pm
by whosmatt
Fairing is underway in earnest. Yesterday, after a thorough going over with the RO and 80 grit to feather the edges of the glass and take the top off the stitching, I coated the whole hull in neat epoxy and after a few hours a coat of thin fairing compound. This morning, I hit it with the longboard (what a workout!) and then another pass with the RO. Here's a shot with her second coating of frosting:
Image

More to come...

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:07 pm
by Lower
Frosting is looking good Matt. Funny how you get to know every square inch of your boat when your fairing!

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:11 am
by whosmatt
Still fairing. Things i've learned:

1. The RO and the longboard are equally useful. Don't be afraid to use the best tool for the job.

2. Speaking of tools, the Surform plane is great for certain things, but it has a crappy handle.

Image

Luckily a short piece of wood fills in nicely.

3. Stop frequently and blow the dust off. When in doubt about where you stand with regards to fairing material (ie where you're getting down to the glass), wipe the surface down with water.

4. If you're using a homemade longboard like me, remove the sandpaper and wipe it down with acetone (or your solvent of choice) at the end of the day. few things suck worse than having to remove paper and adhesive from your tools before starting.

5. Cover your beverage with a clean mixing cup or something else free of dust before blowing the dust off. You don't want to lose your beer to dust.

6. Concentrate on one area at a time. I decided to get the bottom close before resuming the sides/transom. It's a little more rewarding that way.

I've got three quarts of QuikFair and a gallon of S3 primer on the way. Bottom is getting close. Sides and transom are still on coat 2 of self-mixed fairing compound (the purple frosting).

Cheers,

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:00 pm
by tobolamr
5. Cover your beverage with a clean mixing cup or something else free of dust before blowing the dust off. You don't want to lose your beer to dust.
I'm adding THAT to my list of "things to NOT forget to do..."

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:42 pm
by sitandfish
tobolamr wrote:
5. Cover your beverage with a clean mixing cup or something else free of dust before blowing the dust off. You don't want to lose your beer to dust.
I'm adding THAT to my list of "things to NOT forget to do..."
Especially the "Champaign of bottled beers"! :wink:
Image

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:51 pm
by Cracker Larry
Very important :!: I cut a tapered plug for my beer bottles, and a wooden disk for my drinking glass. Keeps the yellow jackets out too. I hate drinking epoxy dust and yellow jackets.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:29 pm
by whosmatt
Well, I just answered the age-old question: "what do you do when you've got a pint of mixed fairing compound halfway spread, with big globs on the boat, ,and you see out of the corner of your eye that the neighbors house is on fire and has burned through six feet of your fence?"

You do what any sensible person would do. Drop everything, pull of your gloves, grab the phone, call 911, explain that it's the house next door and not your house that is on fire, grab a hose, and help until the fire department arrives. Then, you talk to the police a bit, and suddenly you remember that you have a big glob of epoxy kicking off on the bottom of the boat...

So you run back to the shop, put on some gloves, and work feverishly to spread out what you can while you can. All in all, it didn't turn out so bad, though I'm going to be putting the surform to good use tomorrow.

Nobody got hurt, the fire was under control (me and the neighbor with hoses) by the time SDFD got here, and the landlord gets to bill his insurance for about 6 feet of fence. I've had enough boatbuilding for one night. Miller time.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 12:17 am
by whosmatt
Cracker Larry wrote:Very important :!: I cut a tapered plug for my beer bottles, and a wooden disk for my drinking glass. Keeps the yellow jackets out too. I hate drinking epoxy dust and yellow jackets.
Hear, Hear. I miss a lot of things about the south (the east south, that is) but yellow jackets aren't one of them. Anybody who has ever run over a nest on a tractor or riding mower will know exactly what I mean :help:

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:55 pm
by Bowmovement
whosmatt wrote:Well, I just answered the age-old question: "what do you do when you've got a pint of mixed fairing compound halfway spread, with big globs on the boat, ,and you see out of the corner of your eye that the neighbors house is on fire and has burned through six feet of your fence?"

You do what any sensible person would do. Drop everything, pull of your gloves, grab the phone, call 911, explain that it's the house next door and not your house that is on fire, grab a hose, and help until the fire department arrives. Then, you talk to the police a bit, and suddenly you remember that you have a big glob of epoxy kicking off on the bottom of the boat...

So you run back to the shop, put on some gloves, and work feverishly to spread out what you can while you can. All in all, it didn't turn out so bad, though I'm going to be putting the surform to good use tomorrow.

Nobody got hurt, the fire was under control (me and the neighbor with hoses) by the time SDFD got here, and the landlord gets to bill his insurance for about 6 feet of fence. I've had enough boatbuilding for one night. Miller time.

-M
Glad to hear know was hurt. Bad time for fires right now in So Cal.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:32 pm
by whosmatt
Bowmovement wrote:
Glad to hear know was hurt. Bad time for fires right now in So Cal.
Yeah, it was humbling just how fast it got going. Luckily there was nobody in that particular house when it happened. The lot next to us has three houses on it and the guys that live in the front house were on point. There was a chopper hovering over us by the time I got off the phone, though I suspect they just saw the smoke and came to investigate. Big props to the SDFD and SDPD for getting here really fast.
Image
Image

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:00 pm
by tobolamr
Humbling indeed... last winter, my neighbor on the north almost lost their house. It was -30F and their entire roof was STEAMING from the heat in the attic. The fire dept got it just before the roof flashed over - and get this - the roof ended up taking zero permanent damage, but their fireplace had to be completely replaced.

And 2 years ago, we had a chimney fire. I had thought all day that "Gee, the walls around the chimney seem warmer than usual..." My first indication of a fire was at 1am when I noticed a glow behind the chimney in the basment. There was chernobyl in the clean-out, and the heat difference had caused the clean-out door and it's mortar to just fall out. No damage, save my shorts, but still...

Thanks for being a good neighbor and helping out!

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:10 pm
by whosmatt
Still fairing. Getting really, really close. I'm heading to NC for the next 5 days so no more boat work until Sunday. That's not necessarily a bad thing; i'm getting really really tired of being covered in dust.

Quikfair is doing great for filling and building some spots I was a bit concerned about; at least the hull is symmetrical-- I'm working the same places on each side.

Low spot toward the stern: Image

and building the chine around the seam forward:
Image

Fingers crossed, the next pics I post will show a coat of primer.

Remember kids: Fairing is caring!

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:51 pm
by Bowmovement
whosmatt wrote:Still fairing. Getting really, really close. I'm heading to NC for the next 5 days so no more boat work until Sunday. That's not necessarily a bad thing; i'm getting really really tired of being covered in dust.

Quikfair is doing great for filling and building some spots I was a bit concerned about; at least the hull is symmetrical-- I'm working the same places on each side.

Low spot toward the stern: Image

and building the chine around the seam forward:
Image

Fingers crossed, the next pics I post will show a coat of primer.

Remember kids: Fairing is caring!-M

Looking good Matt. I may be heading to NC to visit the family in Sept. not sure yet.What part of NC you headed to?

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:09 pm
by whosmatt
Bowmovement wrote:

Looking good Matt. I may be heading to NC to visit the family in Sept. not sure yet.What part of NC you headed to?

Matt
Flying to Wilmington via CLT to spend a few days @ the beach w/ my parents, then flying back home from RDU.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:29 pm
by Bowmovement
Wilmington is close to where i'm from. I grew up in New Bern. About an 1.5 hours north. My parents want to get a place in Atlantic Beach for the week in sept. Should be fun. Used to do it every year growing up.

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:08 pm
by whosmatt
Bowmovement wrote:Wilmington is close to where i'm from. I grew up in New Bern. About an 1.5 hours north. My parents want to get a place in Atlantic Beach for the week in sept. Should be fun. Used to do it every year growing up.

Matt
Small world I guess... two Matts in San Diego originally from NC :D Actually I grew up in VA but lived in Raleigh for 9+ years before moving here just over a year ago. So, yeah, I'm flying literally from coast to coast to go to the beach :doh:

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:55 pm
by Bowmovement
whosmatt wrote:
Bowmovement wrote:Wilmington is close to where i'm from. I grew up in New Bern. About an 1.5 hours north. My parents want to get a place in Atlantic Beach for the week in sept. Should be fun. Used to do it every year growing up.

Matt
Small world I guess... two Matts in San Diego originally from NC :D Actually I grew up in VA but lived in Raleigh for 9+ years before moving here just over a year ago. So, yeah, I'm flying literally from coast to coast to go to the beach :doh:

-M
Have fun. Its along way to go to the beach considering where you live, but its totally different over there. I miss alot of things from home, well almost everything but the weather 8)

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:59 pm
by whosmatt
As promised, a coat of primer:
Image
Image

It looks better than I thought it would. I'll probably put another coat on tomorrow and then hit it with the sanders and fill in whatever else needs it. Skeg is coming soon too.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:59 am
by Bowmovement
Looking good! How was your trip?

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:13 am
by whosmatt
It was good. Physically relaxing, mentally exhausting... my entire immediate family was there, my parents, myself and three younger (though adult) siblings. We gathered from all over the country, a brother from Alaska, another brother who is in VA (soon to be in GA) and my sister from WA. I got to see one hell of a thunderstorm, one of the things I really miss, and took a short time-lapse of the clouds over the beach: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SVbH-V__LA. Glad to be getting on with the build. PM me if you want to meet for a beer in Carlsbad one day after i get off work or if you want to come check out the build -- weekends are best for that.

Glad football season is starting soon.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:35 pm
by Bowmovement
I got to see one hell of a thunderstorm, one of the things I really miss,
You aint lyin. Never get any good thunder storms here. Get to see some lightening once in a blue moon. The SWMBO thinks I am crazy cause I get all excited about it.
PM me if you want to meet for a beer in Carlsbad one day after i get off work or if you want to come check out the build -- weekends are best for that
Will do. Let me figure out when a good time will be and I will PM ya.
Glad football season is starting soon.
Heard that. Watching the Carolina preseason game now.

GO CHARGERS!!

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:35 am
by whosmatt
So, I'm about to order paint. Hemming and hawing a bit on colors. I really like darker colors for the outside of the hull but since I live in a brutally sunny climate (except for this year, ha!) I'm thinking I should go lighter. I'm picking from the System Three palate. If i could paint any color I like, i'd go with one of the darker blues. Instead, I'm thinking of going with the Bainbridge White (really a light gray) for the hull and ?? for the inside. Same color? Perhaps I could do both in that color and the gunwales and rub rail in a true white? I'm also thinking about a boot stripe, maybe one of the darker blues. I have my heart set on powering this boat with a 30hp Tohatsu and it would be nice to have the "splash" color (blue) on the motor graphics somewhat match with the boat. What are your thoughts? How important is the darkness of the color in preventing heat buildup and UV damage?

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 3:43 am
by TomW
Matt it is not UV damage that you are concerned with once the paint is on. It is heat that causes all the damage. It occurs when the epoxy reaches its temperature of liquidity or when it starts to return to a melted form. Using a dark color in hot climate it is almost assured that this will happen. The damage causes the telegraphing of the fiberglass through the paint and a weakening of the fiberglass epoxy bonds. Marinepoxy reaches this temp at about 140 degrees + or -. Silvertip has a higher point at about 160 + or -.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:55 am
by remedy32
Hi Matt,

Are you going to spray or roll/tip your paint job? I ask because in San Diego you have direct access to a supplier of first rate yacht grade urethanes; Pro Line. If you're spraying I would pay them a visit. The turquoise on my boat is a mix of several colors I had left over from jobs. Great stuff and much more reasonable than Awlgrip (unless Sherwin Williams (parent company) has made them raise prices a great deal lately). One real advantage is that you avoid shipping costs which can be a big deal on many paints. Nothing wrong with System 3, Sterling and many others for sure, but you have an advantage by way of location.

Just my .02.........have fun.

Bill in CT
FS17

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:35 pm
by whosmatt
I'm going to roll and tip. No spray equipment or expertise.
remedy32 wrote:Hi Matt,

Are you going to spray or roll/tip your paint job? I ask because in San Diego you have direct access to a supplier of first rate yacht grade urethanes; Pro Line. If you're spraying I would pay them a visit. The turquoise on my boat is a mix of several colors I had left over from jobs. Great stuff and much more reasonable than Awlgrip (unless Sherwin Williams (parent company) has made them raise prices a great deal lately). One real advantage is that you avoid shipping costs which can be a big deal on many paints. Nothing wrong with System 3, Sterling and many others for sure, but you have an advantage by way of location.

Just my .02.........have fun.

Bill in CT
FS17

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:13 pm
by Cracker Larry
I got to see one hell of a thunderstorm, one of the things I really miss,



You aint lyin. Never get any good thunder storms here. Get to see some lightening once in a blue moon. The SWMBO thinks I am crazy cause I get all excited about it.
Wish I could send you some of ours, we've got a doozy going on right now :lol: Usually you can set your watch by them, they're early today though. I love watching them too, I sit on the porch at night and watch the light shows 8) I think I'd really miss them if I lived where they weren't any.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:19 pm
by Bowmovement
Matt,
As Tom said its not the sunlight but the temp. Here in San Diego it is sunny alot! Its a bad problem to deal with but we make do. It really doesnt get that hot here. Now would be a good time to test it. Set something outside in direct sunlight and take the temp when its the hottest time of the day. Will your boat be in the garage when not in use? If so I would paint it whatever color you want.

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:22 pm
by Bowmovement
Cracker Larry wrote:
I got to see one hell of a thunderstorm, one of the things I really miss,



You aint lyin. Never get any good thunder storms here. Get to see some lightening once in a blue moon. The SWMBO thinks I am crazy cause I get all excited about it.
Wish I could send you some of ours, we've got a doozy going on right now :lol: Usually you can set your watch by them, they're early today though. I love watching them too, I sit on the porch at night and watch the light shows 8) I think I'd really miss them if I lived where they weren't any.
Send em Larry! I always loved watching storms. I would hate to these people out here in San Diego react to a good thunder boomer. It wold make the front page. So. Californians cant drive in the rain. They slow down to a crawl when it drizzles.

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:27 pm
by Cracker Larry
I reckon it's all in what you're used to Matt. I can't drive in snow, not even going to try :lol: And I find those California earthquakes a little unnerving too 8O But I can sleep like a baby through any thunderstorm, nothing like rain on a tin roof 8)

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:33 pm
by whosmatt
Bowmovement wrote:Will your boat be in the garage when not in use? If so I would paint it whatever color you want.

Matt
I wish! I'm going to have to dismantle a fence just to get it out of here and onto the trailer when the time comes. I'll just go with a light color -- don't want to blend in with the ocean too much anyway, might get run down by one of those offshore speedboats (or so my mother thinks). I'm also just about done trying to make it pretty.... but of course I thought that three weeks ago!

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:37 pm
by whosmatt
Cracker Larry wrote:I reckon it's all in what you're used to Matt. I can't drive in snow, not even going to try :lol: And I find those California earthquakes a little unnerving too 8O But I can sleep like a baby through any thunderstorm, nothing like rain on a tin roof 8)
Yeah, rain here is like snow in the southeast... except that the grocery stores don't run out of bread, milk and eggs.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 3:13 pm
by whosmatt
Hey guys,

A quick tech question -- My first 2 coats of primer are down, and I'll admit to not reading the directions carefully enough. I didn't wait the 15 minutes specified after mixing before applying the primer. :help: Do I need to take these coats off? I will if necessary. I know the mix isn't required, the specs say that the primer can be used as is, but I don't want to be painting this boat again for a long while.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 3:18 pm
by Cracker Larry
I "think" it will probably be OK, but I wouldn't bet your boat finish on my guess either. I'd wait and see what Joel says about that.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:55 pm
by whosmatt
whosmatt wrote:Hey guys,
I know the mix isn't required, the specs say that the primer can be used as is

Actually, to correct myself, I was thinking of the topcoat that doesn't require the second part. Anyway, the finish seems ok, but I'm going to sand thoroughly with the RO and 80 grit. It's pretty easy to get through the primer to the fairing material that way.

Also, I'm now considering the decision of whether to leave the edges on the chine (mostly built up from blended fairing compound, not quikfair) They look pretty good as is, but worried about durability. I did the transom edge with a dam and epoxy-wood flour mix and it is sharp as a knife.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:52 am
by whosmatt
An update-- I did decide to remove the fairing material from the chine and replace it with epoxy/silica/woodflour. It was a lot of work, and I should have done it much earlier in the process, but I'm glad I did. I went to the Home Improvement Circus (as I like to call it) and picked up a few lengths of MDF baseboard molding. This ended up working perfectly as a dam. I put a strip of packing tape along the finished face and used drywall screws to attach it to the chine.
Image

I used Joel's ziploc bag trick to squirt epoxy in there (he makes it look easy, but it really isn't). I brought the first application to 48" from the bow, and didn't like the way it looked, so I went ahead and brought it to 24" from the bow and used a light touch and sandpaper to make a gradual transition from rounded to sharp.

I then drilled out the screw holes, used a trimmed 1" brush to get neat epoxy in there (thanks again to Joel for the precedent) and squirted epoxy/woodflour in there until it ran out the other side.

I also laminated and installed a skeg. I decided to make it from 9mm meranti, laminated to 3 layers. 7' long, and tapered the front 8" of it. once again, I drilled out the screw holes and filled them with wood flour, then gave the whole thing another coat of epoxy.
Image
I measured a center point at the transom and put a laser straight line there, then measured a center point where the tip of the skeg sits and lined them up. I lined up the center ply of the laminated skeg and glued it down. This was kind of scary, as the only way to fix a mistake now is going to involve a lot of power tools and dust.
Image
Image
Image

The masking tape really turned out well, as it meant I was able to apply neat epoxy and then thickened epoxy liberally but without messing up my fairing job. I removed it as soon as the epoxy got to a point where I was confident the skeg wouldn't move but the epoxy was still pliable.

You may have seen this:http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=24374 .. hopefully that is just a small bump in the road.

-M

Edit: Also, It has finally gotten pretty warm here, and the materials are much less forgiving now. I find myself scrambling to get even a minimal batch of epoxy or quikfair applied in time. I live about 3 or 4 miles from the water, as the crow flies, and it's supposed to be in the 90s here for the next couple of days, meaning 100s for inland and 115 or so for the desert. yikes. Also, I have no AC. Pity me.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:32 am
by Bowmovement
Looking good Matt. The temps here are brutal right now for our area. Kind of a late start for summer this year.
About that cold beer. There's a craft brewery right off Palomar Airport that opens thier tasting room on Fridays. Not sure what knd of beer you like but they brew some really good beers. It's called Green Flash. Let me know if you want to meet up over there. $3 pints, can't beat the price.

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:30 am
by whosmatt
Matt,

Sent you an email via the site.... don't want to post my digits or email publicly (not that you guys can't contact me privately, please feel free)..


Anyway, after the recent revelations over on dougsters' thread, I'm thinking of spending the xtra $$$ for sterling paint for the hull, and maybe going with an alkyd for the interior. What do you guys think of the Lemon Mist color?

Image

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:37 am
by sitandfish
whosmatt wrote:Matt,

Sent you an email via the site.... don't want to post my digits or email publicly (not that you guys can't contact me privately, please feel free)..


Anyway, after the recent revelations over on dougsters' thread, I'm thinking of spending the xtra $$$ for sterling paint for the hull, and maybe going with an alkyd for the interior. What do you guys think of the Lemon Mist color?

Image
Ohhhh man! I thought the yellow color was dead on this site. :help:

Glad to see that it isn't. Looks nice. :wink:

Even if you do a white rail like in the picture, I think it would be great.

Remember, you will be in the boat and all the black will be under water. The yellow will be very minimal. Very nice.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:49 am
by whosmatt
Sweet, nice to have instant feedback. Also, and if need to I'll post this in a separate thread, can I get by with two quarts of the topcoat, a quart of the catalyst, and, say, a pint of the reducer? By my calculations that should give me 3+ quarts of applicable product which should be more than enough, even for three coats.

I haven't decided on the rubrail and interior yet but I'm thinking a mild off-white or cream color. Might do a vinyl rubrail but that is a ways in the future. On my last boat (a restoration, not a build) I used an alkyd porch paint on the inside and other than staying tacky for a week or so, it held up admirably, much better, in fact, than the "marine paint" I used for the hull. Just try not to spill gas on it :P

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:09 am
by sitandfish
Probably best to talk about the look of the color and the durability of the paint separately. Just my thought. Paint is a big subject on this site. That's a good thing. :wink:

Some more yellow.
Image

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:37 am
by whosmatt
A small update --

Met up with Bowmovement after work yesterday, he introduced me to a local brewery close to where each of us works. The beer was (and is) delicious. We need to encourage him to build a boat one of these days, he's got the bug for sure.

Today I worked on smoothing out the chine toward the bow, forward of the planing area. There's a bit of a wave there and even though it won't be in the water, even at rest, I want it to look as good as I can make it. I ran out of quikfair and decided to look for a local source, and lo and behold, I found it, at a marine supply store (not a chain) down @ shelter island. They only had the 1.5 quart size but it's enough for me to finish the hull. They also carry all the paint a boat builder could want, including Sterling, but man that stuff is $$$. Got a couple of coats of quikfair on today and hope to get more done before I head to LA tomorrow for a visit w/ a few friends from back east.

I also picked up a short length of 2" wide fiberglass tape, which I used to cover the bottom (well, the top right now) of my skeg:
Image
Image
Image

I'll grind the excess off tomorrow.

More primer this week, then graphite and paint. I got a couple of quarts of Interlux Perfection in the Fighting Lady Yellow, very similar to the color I posted earlier.

Flip is coming soon!!! I also got a quote on a 30hp Tohatsu remote w/ PT&T from a local dealer, also @ shelter island. I have a feeling they'll try and talk me up to the 40 or 50 TLDI. We'll see about that. I've got a LOT of work left before I have to make that decision.

Weather is cool here again.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:57 pm
by Bowmovement
Any updates Matt?

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:53 pm
by whosmatt
Bowmovement wrote:Any updates Matt?

Matt
Nothing spectacular. I haven't gotten a lot done over the past couple of weeks; my dad was in town over the holiday weekend and we worked on the boat some and went hiking some. I'm running low on primer, due to my decision to sharpen the chines after starting priming. I probably only need another quart (I have a quart or so left from my first gallon), enough for another coat, but I went ahead and ordered a gallon and I expect it early next week. I still have to fair the screw holes and finish sealing and touching up the rub rail and skeg. I picked up a quart of Interlux Brightsides in Steel Gray for a boot stripe, drew it out and liked the way it looks. I'm going to wait until I have all my primer before continuing with the paint job since I'd like to be able to put down multiple coats before sanding; I always seem to get through to the fairing material when trying to level the primer so I want to build up a couple of coats, which requires no more than 72 hrs between coats without sanding first. I'm really not sure how much I'll get done in the next few weeks, my brother is coming into town, i've been working a LOT, and there's talk of having to travel to Texas for a week or more late in the month. Seems like things are conspiring against me to get anything of note done.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:35 am
by whosmatt
here's a bad rendition of my idea for the aforementioned gray stripe
Image



ps. GO CHARGERS.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:12 pm
by Bowmovement
Looks good to me.

With ya on the Chargers. Waiting for the game right now. Got some Yellowtail fillets thawing to cook for the game.

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:24 pm
by sitandfish
whosmatt wrote:here's a bad rendition of my idea for the aforementioned gray stripe
Image



ps. GO CHARGERS.
She looks better with each "rendition". Cool! 8)

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:15 am
by whosmatt
Fast forward a couple of weeks --

I've been priming (more), fixing tiny little things, mixing QuikFair a 1/2 oz at a time (by sight, it works remarkably well), etc. Oh, and sanding. Today, after my final primer coats had cured for the requisite 72 hours, I sanded the hull with a combination of 120 and 220 discs, depending on the area. Then (in between football watching, GO HOKIES), I laid out some semblance of a waterline. I backed off the baseline measurement to leave some room for a boot stripe. Then I mixed up some graphite and epoxy, mostly just winging it as far as the combination went. I rolled and tipped it onto the hull --
Image

It's going to take a few coats, and the next couple I'll do one side at a time, as the potlife is a little shortened by the heat we've been having here as of late. It'll take some sanding to get it smooth, but I think I've got a feel for it now. The first time coating with something is always the toughest.

The extra tape on the front was my original mask, but I decided to bring it back a bit and flare the boot stripe out toward the front, since i've got a whole quart of the color i'm going to use, and don't want to use so much epoxy if I don't have to. Hopefully it'll look slick...

Anyway, that's what I'm up to. I also today bought the materials I'll need to brace the roof of my garage so that I can use comealongs to lift the boat straight up off the jig, then get under it and disassemble the jig and turn it into a cradle... the pains of working in a small space... at least I'm not out of doors. We had our first real rain of the season a couple of days ago.

-M

Also, go Padres! fingers crossed; they are making it exciting.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:41 am
by cape man
That bottom looks great! I can see where you will be stiffening the roof! Very nice.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:31 pm
by Bowmovement
Looking good Matt. Give me a shout when ever ya need a hand.

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:52 pm
by col555
Hi Matt,

Just come across your build, looking good, im going to build the FS12, i have a question

I have orderd Aeromarine epoxy, the guy there is very helpfull, he says its non blush, did you get any blushing?

My plans should arrive tomorrow, looking forward to get started.

I will be watching your progress with interest.

C

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:05 pm
by gstanfield
I'm not Matt, but I did build a boat with aeromarine as well as marinepoxy. I personally could not tell a differnce in just working with the two products, never compared the specs so I can't say how they compare in terms of strength, etc. There was no blushing with either, but after shipping I found the marinepoxy to be almost the same price as aeromarine cost more to ship for some reason. At any rate I now use the stuff sold here if for no other reason than to support the guys who provide this great forum :D

George

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:05 pm
by whosmatt
I actually am not using Aeromarine... I intended to but wasn't able to get down there during business hours because they're not open on the weekends. So I'm using US Composites. It's cheap, but it's what I used on my last project and it has worked well for me so far. It is subject to blush, but it hasn't been a problem for me yet. I'm using the 3:1 medium hardener and 635 thin resin. I wouldn't be surprised if this stuff comes from the same mfg as a number of other epoxies but don't quote me on that.
col555 wrote:Hi Matt,

Just come across your build, looking good, im going to build the FS12, i have a question

I have orderd Aeromarine epoxy, the guy there is very helpfull, he says its non blush, did you get any blushing?

My plans should arrive tomorrow, looking forward to get started.

I will be watching your progress with interest.

C

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:23 pm
by col555
Ok, thanks for answering matt

George
Thanks, the only reason i went with Aeromarine is i had a balance in my PayPal account and this site dosnt accept PayPal, ill be buying my glass here and most everything else.

C

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:44 pm
by gstanfield
Funny, that was one of my biggest factors for going with aeromarine. I sold a few toys on E-may to finance my boat build and so I just went ahead and bought the epoxy with the funds I had in my payapal account :D I'd not have issue using it again, as it seemed to be good epoxy, maybe a tad thinner than the mareinepoxy, but not much difference in application.

George

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:42 am
by whosmatt
Just finished putting the second coat of graphite/epoxy on, and it's still not any easier to work with. Luckily it's dark and on the bottom of the boat :P Much cooler temps mean I'll probably have to give it 48 hours before hitting it with any sandpaper. So much for SoCal's lack of weather; we have been from 100+ to 60's and rainy in less than a week.

Also, there's got to be a market for a pre-mixed product that is easier to work with.... I'm sure System Three has some guys holed up in a lab working on it.
-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:44 am
by Bowmovement
whosmatt wrote:Just finished putting the second coat of graphite/epoxy on, and it's still not any easier to work with. Luckily it's dark and on the bottom of the boat :P Much cooler temps mean I'll probably have to give it 48 hours before hitting it with any sandpaper. So much for SoCal's lack of weather; we have been from 100+ to 60's and rainy in less than a week.

Also, there's got to be a market for a pre-mixed product that is easier to work with.... I'm sure System Three has some guys holed up in a lab working on it.
-M
Our wether has been a little screwy lately.

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:48 pm
by whosmatt
Still plugging along... after futile attempts to sand this stuff, I went and picked up some 220 and 400 wetordry from the auto parts place up the block. Wet sanding turned out to be the deal, as it got rid of what I can assume was amine blush, though I make sure to wipe w/ water before each coat:
Image

Tonight, I hit it with 120 grit on the RO to get rid of the last of the brush marks and lumpiness (and moth parts) and put down another coat of graphite/epoxy. The RO didn't clog the paper, though a sanding block still did. What a difference... this one seemed to lay down a LOT smoother than the previous coats. Unfortunately, there are still a couple of spots that could use a little more coverage (not completely black), but I'm on the right track.

This coat will get a good cure in the weather expected this weekend, as I'm headed to the Mojave for some camping and "playing Dukes of Hazard" with my brother (dry lake beds, four wheel drive, and beer will bring out the kid in anyone)...

Here's what I just did... It's not as shiny because it's the thinnest coat I've managed yet.
Image

You can see a light spot @ the stern on the starboard side; that's where I rubbed off some under-cured epoxy w/ acetone. I apparently underestimated the cure time in the cool weather we've had for the last four days or so.

The flip is coming. I've got my fingers crossed for 2 weekends from now.

Cheers,

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:35 am
by remedy32
Lookin' good Matt. That stuff had to be one of the messiest parts of the build for me too. I applied the goo with a 3" chip brush trying to lay it on as heavily as I could while keeping it (sort of) even. I alternated between fore-aft and across the bottom which helped produce a fairly uniform film thickness. One other thing was to time the application so that the sun was on the boat soon after I was done. This stuff absorbs a lot of heat and cures real fast with the big heater in the sky on it.

The good news is that at some point you can say "GOOD ENOUGH" and be done.

You're getting there.

Bill

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 12:33 pm
by whosmatt
remedy32 wrote:Lookin' good Matt. That stuff had to be one of the messiest parts of the build for me too. I applied the goo with a 3" chip brush trying to lay it on as heavily as I could while keeping it (sort of) even. I alternated between fore-aft and across the bottom which helped produce a fairly uniform film thickness. One other thing was to time the application so that the sun was on the boat soon after I was done. This stuff absorbs a lot of heat and cures real fast with the big heater in the sky on it.

The good news is that at some point you can say "GOOD ENOUGH" and be done.

You're getting there.

Bill
Unfortunately, i've got no sun; working indoors. I've been putting it on with a 7" foam roller and then tipping with a 3" brush. I'm staying away from the chip brushes for this one since they tend to shed a lot. One more coat and I'll call it done. I'll have to time the next one so that it sets up during daylight hours, otherwise i'm gonna have a well-preserved family of moths accompanying me on every trip. Thanks for the encouragement.
-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:41 pm
by steve292
Looks good from here 8)
Your right, it isn't the easiest stuff to get out good. I messed about with it for ages . The thing you have to remind yourself is that no one will see itwhen the boat is in the water or on the trailer :lol:
Steve

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:35 am
by whosmatt
Well,

After a lot of consideration, I've decided to rethink my paint strategy. The weather hasn't been cooperating, and I'm not excited about how my original "waterline" is turning out. I painted some gray interlux brightsides above the graphite, but I don't think it's going to be durable enough for anything near the waterline, and it doesn't really look good. (the paint itself looks fine, but the color doesn't) I'm going to sand it off and bring the graphite/epoxy to more of a true waterline, or at least the best I can get in my limited space (which means i can't sight it from a distance). Alternately, I may sand everything down to the primer to the chine, and just leave the graphite on the bottom, much the way Joel did it in his build.

Either way, then, I'm going to flip the boat and leave the topsides for later. One reason is that I can't imagine the paint job not getting dinged up during the time it will take me to frame up the inside and install (at least) the sole. Also, we're getting an early dose of winter weather here, and working the inside of the boat will mean that I can keep the garage closed and somewhat heated. I know, working in San Diego should mean that I can work year-round, but the reality is that daytime highs for the foreseeable future are just within the working limits of the epoxy I'm using, and i'd rather get on with it. Plus, I can't work during the daytime except on weekends, and waiting 12 or 16 hours between being able to do anything is driving me nuts.

I'm still hoping to flip by the weekend of 10/30, but you know how that goes... my brother will be in town then, so that will at least mean an extra set of hands.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:48 pm
by Bowmovement
Weather isnt that great here right now. Not really complaining, I would rather have this rain then fires.

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:19 am
by chicagoross
(and moth parts)
Thanks! I'd forgotten about that part of the build. I don't know what it is about the graphite, but those little tiny black moths think it's their bed. I had literally thousands of them to get rid of. You know it's your final coat of graphite when you only get a few of those stuck on there - it was third coat for me. That's probably when I had finally killed off all of them in the neighborhood. :roll:

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:50 pm
by whosmatt
Well,

I got rid of the gray. It took a lot of elbow grease, sandpaper, and denatured alcohol. I re-taped with a new waterline and applied my first coat of additional epoxy last night. Incidentally, there was once again a house fire on my street (this time not next door!) while I was working with the epoxy. I didn't let myself get distracted this time.

Now, i'm playing the waiting game. Thin coats of epoxy take longer to cure, so i'm sitting in the garage with two space heaters going and the lights out so I don't trip the breaker again. I've managed to get the air temp in here up to about 76 F (it's a very drafty garage). It's already been 14 hours and I can still make a fingerprint in the epoxy if I press hard.

Luckily I have college football to keep me occupied.

Cheers,

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:05 pm
by Bowmovement
Dang, what is it with your street and house fires?

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:40 pm
by whosmatt
Bowmovement wrote:Dang, what is it with your street and house fires?
haha... hopefully just a concidence! This one wasn't very big either... There was a lot of smoke but it was pretty well out by the time I put down the roller and got my gloves off. I swear I think the police keep a chopper in the air at all times in this neighborhood.

I just got coat #4 on the previously gray areas of the hull, i've got my garage temps up to 83 today (yay sun!) and am hoping to be able to sand this stuff tomorrow and get one last coat over the whole thing.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:51 am
by whosmatt
Ok, quick decision: to paint or not to paint? before I flip that is. I'm not gonna get to a flip this weekend, but I have the time to paint and to get things in order for a flip by next weekend, i think.

Bowmovement, can you help me w/ a flip next saturday 11/6? I'll grill and provide beer. If you have friends that can help, that would be great. I'll try to drum up support from the few other folks I know here.

Anybody else who has done this before, painting before or after the flip, does it make a big difference?

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:55 am
by steve292
Is it primed? if so I would sand the primer & fill, reprime & sand where you have to until it's smooth, then flip & finish the boat & topcoat last. I painted before flipping & ended up damaging the paint while building the topside & hull interior & had to repaint, which will influence my decision if I were to build again.I would prime & sand before the flip anyway, as it is waaay easier to sand with the hull upside down, due to the flare in the sides.
Against that is that it is a lot easier to paint when the hull is upside down. If you have good neat work habits & cover the paint with a decent tarp against bashing & spillages you will get away with it.
my 0.02,
Steve

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:02 am
by Cracker Larry
I would prime it before the flip, but wait on the topcoat. You'll be sure to mess it up when working on the inside.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 10:15 am
by whosmatt
It is primed. Thanks for the input; it's exactly what I was looking for.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:54 am
by Bowmovement
I don't see why not. Just let me know the details and I should be there.

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:42 pm
by whosmatt
Cool, I'll let you know. I kind of wish I could do it right now, as the boat is hanging from the rafters of the garage and the doors won't shut until I get it on the cradle and pushed back against the wall.

I can't really convey how tight the space is, but here's a photo. Note that the bow is protruding about 18" out of the doors right now.
Image


Question for those who have done this before: Should I put anything on the cradle to pad it or will the graphite keep the bottom from scuffing?

Looking forward to getting on with it,

Matt

PS, glad so see the Chargers finally were able to overcome all the mistakes and get a W. I could hear the boooing from my house.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:58 am
by whosmatt
She's flipped. We did it w/ five people, four of them lifting.

In just a few minutes, it went from this:
Image

To this:
Image

My wife made me pose for that photo. You might not be able to tell, but I'm ecstatic.

We then cooked pork, watched the end of the UNC-FSU game, and drank entirely too much beer. All in all, a normal Saturday except for the boat flipping part.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:51 pm
by Bowmovement
Great job. Sorry I couldnt make it.

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:46 pm
by Lower
Awesome! Must feel good to see the inside! Keep up the good work.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:33 pm
by whosmatt
It feels great. Next big milestone is, I suppose, getting the sole in. One step at a time... I intend to get the inside glass done this weekend. It'll be nice to be building again rather than filling tiny little holes of which there seem to be an endless supply.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:55 pm
by whosmatt
Got the inside glassed. Arms are sticky. Have used way more epoxy than I should have.

Here's a couple of shots:
Seams taped.
Image
Worked wet on wet with the fillets and tape.... much quicker and easy to get all the bubbles out.
Image
I misjudged a little when I trimmed the port bow glass. I don't suppose it matters in the grand scheme of things.
Image
Shot looking toward the stern:
Image

I'm gonna be sore from hunching over so much -- I figured I've got about 8 hours in all the glass work between yesterday and today.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:38 pm
by Bowmovement
Matt, hows the build coming along?

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:54 am
by whosmatt
Slowly. I haven't worked on it very much over the last month or so. I have the stringers glued and taped in. Image I spent the Thanksgiving weekend flying back to my parents house in VA, picking up a truck that I bought from my Dad, and driving it back across the USA to San Diego. That was fun; I got to see some snow in NM and AZ.

My brother was here for the last week and a half or so and we spent last weekend out in the Mojave giving the "new" truck a workout. I'm no longer so concerned with the weight of the boat (because I'm no longer stuck towing with a Honda CR-V), which is good, because I seem to be using way more epoxy than strictly necessary, as us first-timers are wont to do.

One issue is that my remaining plywood got wet. It has been sitting stacked on my deck with breathing space below it and covered with a tarp, but the tarp deteriorated over the summer and due to the wet fall we've had, it has a fair amount of, at the very least, staining from the moisture. It doesn't appear warped or damaged, but I'll post pics of it and see what the experienced folks here think. I live in between two freeways, and the dust and detritus from the highways tends to settle and when mixed with water will make a black sludge that looks terrible. My plan is to take a sander to the outside ply and see how far in the staining goes. Two of the remaining sheets are dedicated to the console, so If i have to scrap some wood it's not the end of the world.

I am being forced by my work to take 40 hours of vacation between now and the end of the year so between that and the coming holidays, I should have plenty of daylight hours to get things moving again. It's time to make decisions about how to build the front deck area, and about where to run chase tubes.... input is welcome. I'd like, if possible, to keep at least one of two planned 6 gallon portable tanks in a compartment in the bow, so if anyone has experience with this, i'll appreciate hearing about it.

One more thing, and maybe this is best posted in another section of the forum: how, if the frames beneath the sole are flush with the top of the stringers, should I cut them so that I can install them in one piece? Do I notch the stingers where they meet?

Cheers,

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:09 am
by sitandfish
whosmatt wrote:...One more thing, and maybe this is best posted in another section of the forum: how, if the frames beneath the sole are flush with the top of the stringers, should I cut them so that I can install them in one piece? Do I notch the stingers where they meet? Cheers, Matt
Joel did on his FS17.
Image

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:08 pm
by Uncle D
whosmatt wrote:One issue is that my remaining plywood got wet. It has been sitting stacked on my deck with breathing space below it and covered with a tarp, but the tarp deteriorated over the summer and due to the wet fall we've had, it has a fair amount of, at the very least, staining from the moisture.
I got 1/2 in. from the local lumber yard in my area that had water stains and didn't have any problems at all.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:27 pm
by TomW
Uncle D wrote:
whosmatt wrote:One issue is that my remaining plywood got wet. It has been sitting stacked on my deck with breathing space below it and covered with a tarp, but the tarp deteriorated over the summer and due to the wet fall we've had, it has a fair amount of, at the very least, staining from the moisture.
I got 1/2 in. from the local lumber yard in my area that had water stains and didn't have any problems at all.

Matt if you have quality marine plywood get it into a dry area and let it dry out. It should then be useable. Water stains are just that, stains and won't affect the bonding as long as the wood is dryed out. As far as the gunk from the freeways good luck! :lol:

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:54 pm
by whosmatt
TomW wrote: Matt if you have quality marine plywood get it into a dry area and let it dry out. It should then be useable. Water stains are just that, stains and won't affect the bonding as long as the wood is dryed out. As far as the gunk from the freeways good luck! :lol:
It's been drying in the garage for about 10 days now... It wasn't wet to the touch even when I uncovered it... it had just been wet at some point. It's Meranti 1088, and it seems pretty sound. Thanks for the advice.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:13 pm
by Bowmovement
That hull hasnt floated away has it?

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:44 pm
by TomW
Matt missed this earlier but with Meranti 1088 don't worry about it at all. The mahogany logs which were Meranti were used in Africa for dugout canoes long before the Europeans found it for boat building. As I said before stains are just that stains and the wood will not be affeced at all as long as it is dryed out.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:19 pm
by Cracker Larry
That hull hasnt floated away has it?
I was wondering about that, been seeing yall on the news. Sure hope you folks building on the left coast don't get any of those mud slides 8O One thing good about living on flat land, nothing can fall on you except a tree :help:

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:15 pm
by Bowmovement
CL, The bad mudslides normally happen a little bit north of here. In LA, usually multi million dollar homes. But most of them dont have insurance for mudslides so they ask the gov. to help out.

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:03 am
by TomW
Had a little bit of a rock slide on our road. Didn't block it this time, like it did last spring. But normally we don't worry about them around them here. Except when I-40 was closed for 13 months. That was a major slide around here. Closed it from last spring to this fall. Also had a slide on US 128 that closed it for 3 months. It's just the nature of being in the moutains. The other route is US 441 through the Great Smokies National Park and every once in a while it gets closed by a slide.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:26 am
by whosmatt
Bowmovement wrote:That hull hasnt floated away has it?

Matt
haha, no, but I'm certainly not getting any work done on it. My garage is just big enough to hold the boat, so any cutting has to be done outside... not in this weather, for sure.

and, speaking of weather, i bought a last minute plane ticket back east for the holiday. wouldn't you know it, i'm following this storm system. They're talking about a white christmas for central NC and southern VA, where my folks live.

-Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:03 pm
by TomW
Yepper Matt, should be nice and white here in the NC mountains this Christmas. Maybe not so bad over your way but it seems everyone will get it even as far south as northern SC. We will see as the front get's here and concentrates on us. At least it won't be the 10-18" we got 2 weeks ago. :lol:

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:04 pm
by Bowmovement
My parents are excited that they are calling for snow on the coast of NC for Christmas.

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:06 pm
by whosmatt
Starting to get back into it now. Holidays were great, got to see a white Christmas and got my flight out of RDU canceled by Delta. Had to wait until the next day, take a flight out of Lynchburg, VA, and, just when I thought I was spending the night in Atlanta, Delta put me in first class (!) for the last flight of the day back to San Diego.

So, with the inside glassed and the stringers glued and tabbed in, I figure I'll start with the motorwell and work my way forward. To get the spacing right, I mocked up the motorwell sides and frame E with some screws and 2x2" in the corners.
Image

Before I start gluing, I want to know how others have proceeded with this assembly. It seems like the best way to do it would be to tab in frame E on the bow side, remove the motorwell sides, tab in the stern side, then reinstall. Seems like limited space between the stringers and the motorwell sides, though, and I'm curious as to how others have approached this. Do the motorwell sides get glass tape between them and the stringers?
Image

Happy New Year to everybody here; my fingers crossed that 2011 is less eventful for me than 2010 was, and that I get this boat splashed by the time the winter storm season is over.

Cheers,

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:47 pm
by Bowmovement
Glad ya made it back. Getting bumped up to first class is always nice. Had it happen to me a couple of times when I was in the Navy and traveling in uniform.

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:07 am
by whosmatt
Bowmovement wrote:Glad ya made it back. Getting bumped up to first class is always nice. Had it happen to me a couple of times when I was in the Navy and traveling in uniform.

Matt
Haha, yeah, the difference is that men (and women) in the service generally deserve it. I'm pretty sure I just got real lucky. I was happy enough just to have a seat. I didn't realize I was in first class until boarding started.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:12 am
by steve292
I put frame E in first, then the motorwell sides. It is a pain glassing between the sides & the stringers, but doable. The whole of the assembly needs to be taped, 1 layer.
Steve

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:51 am
by whosmatt
steve292 wrote:I put frame E in first, then the motorwell sides. It is a pain glassing between the sides & the stringers, but doable. The whole of the assembly needs to be taped, 1 layer.
Steve
Thanks, Steve. That's exactly what I'm going to do. I stuck the whole assembly in there last night and put a few spots of epoxy in, and tonight I filled the gaps with epoxy, built a fillet, and glassed the front side. Tomorrow, the back side.

Image

I used the last bit of epoxy to coat the part of the bulkhead that you see.

Fingers crossed that this weekend is rain-free. I'm thinking that I'll do the stations in pieces rather than cutting the whole thing and notching the stringer as that should allow me to get the nesting tight and save wood.... we'll see though. I'm not set on it yet.

Thanks again for the help.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:40 am
by remedy32
Looking good Matt!

There have been some good pictures posted of ways to support the transverse sections of the sole structure. I searched and couldn't remember who posted. Think it was an FS17 or OD18 but didn't have the heart to look thru all (366 pages) of the Cracker Larry OD18 build saga! Basic idea was to hang them from a straight board sitting across the stringers. The more level this structure sits the easier is it to get a nice well bonded and level cockpit sole.

Keep up the good work.

Bill in CT

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:57 pm
by steve292
Image
ImageJust 2 bits of 11/2" batten screwed together, with a cut out for the stringers.
Make it to fit the longest span first, & shorten as you need to.Clamp the frame peices to the side.
Steve

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:46 pm
by whosmatt
Steve,

Thanks for the photo of the jig, that's how I'm doing it. Got station D glued in today:
Imageg

I should have all the framing installed by the end of the week, save for A. I'm trying to finalize how I'm going to build the compartments in the bow. I'd really like, if possible, to have room to stow my fuel tanks forward, to balance the weight. I'd like to be able to carry 2 6gal portable tanks. I've gone as far as mocking up the framing and sole in Google Sketchup using dimensions for the plans so i can calculate the measurements to maximize space (it was rainy a few weekends ago and I didn't have anything better to do).

It feels good to be working on the boat regularly again. The weather could not be nicer this weekend :P

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:16 pm
by remedy32
Hi Matt,

Glad to see that Steve's pictures helped out. Work looks great. Also nice to hear you talking about the SD weather. Here in CT it's been real cold and my (well covered!) FS17 is sitting surrounded by about 2 feet of snow.

You mentioned locating the 2 tanks forward. You might want to search "FS17 sole level problem" in the forums. This topic was posted in May 2008 by Jim Mac, one of the first first builders to complete the FS17. He had to relocate the tanks aft a bit to get the sole at an angle where the boat would drain sitting at rest. My boat sits a tiny bit bow down even with the 50 lb. battery in one of the aft compartments and the temporary 3 gallon tank sitting just in front of the transom. Hope this helps you plan ahead.

Bill in CT

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:31 pm
by whosmatt
remedy32 wrote:Hi Matt,

Glad to see that Steve's pictures helped out. Work looks great. Also nice to hear you talking about the SD weather. Here in CT it's been real cold and my (well covered!) FS17 is sitting surrounded by about 2 feet of snow.

You mentioned locating the 2 tanks forward. You might want to search "FS17 sole level problem" in the forums. This topic was posted in May 2008 by Jim Mac, one of the first first builders to complete the FS17. He had to relocate the tanks aft a bit to get the sole at an angle where the boat would drain sitting at rest. My boat sits a tiny bit bow down even with the 50 lb. battery in one of the aft compartments and the temporary 3 gallon tank sitting just in front of the transom. Hope this helps you plan ahead.

Bill in CT
Wow, ok. I've been looking at your solution for the bow and thinking i'd do something similar. I still haven't picked a motor but I'm thinking of at the least a 4 stroke 30hp from tohatsu or maybe a 40 2 stroke. It seems like 175 or 200lbs of motor on the stern would make the bow high at rest. Maybe my fuel capacity planning is too high, but I've seen what a 25hp 2stroke can do to a 3 gal tank in a short time, and I've run a 6 gallon tank down pretty well with even a 10hp 2 stroke. Granted, I like to explore a lot. I'm really looking for a clean floor plan, as much as possible but with fuel capacity to really go out when the weather is nice.

I am definitely relishing the weather here, as it is actually nicer than it was during a good part of the summer, if you can believe that. I like snow, though, but I know you guys have been hammered this season. I was in VA for the Christmas storm and it was beautiful but manageable. I've been in the south (Blacksburg, VA in 1996) during a 30" snow storm and I wouldn't wish that havoc on anyone.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:43 am
by remedy32
Agree with all you're saying. I picked up a 9 gal. plastic "oval" shaped tank on closeout at West for 20 bucks. But since the "real" console is still in the shop I didn't have the room for it so just used the 3 gal from my FL14's 5 hp Tohatsu. I just wanted to get the boat on the water and explore! I'll install the molded glass console with tank beneath in the spring. Depending on how you do a console I would still consider putting the fuel in the middle of the boat. The battery is small and heavy which makes a pretty good "corrector" weight for balancing. I'm also impressed at the actual weight that this boat can carry in the stern. I was concerned as I built but now think a 220 lb engine would be fine back there.

There was some good info in that exchange between JimMac and JM about balance point etc. Happy to share the thoughts and hope it helps a bit.

Bill

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:03 pm
by whosmatt
remedy32 wrote:
There was some good info in that exchange between JimMac and JM about balance point etc. Happy to share the thoughts and hope it helps a bit.

Bill

I'll search for that. Thanks for the input. It'll make my build a lot easier if i'm putting fuel in the center.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:40 pm
by whosmatt
Bill,

Thanks for pointing me toward JimMac's thread. This pic of his build is very similar to what I had in mind, except with a full height frame forward or maybe just a breasthook:
Image

I'll keep pondering.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:20 pm
by whosmatt
Quick update, here's what I'm looking at right now:
Image

I'm going to be putting the glass on all those stations plus the motorwell sides this weekend... and the time has come to make my decision about the bow area.... grrr... I suppose I could mock it up in particle board and see how it turns out...

This is the fun part though. I gotta keep in mind that it's MY boat and i can make it however I please, within reason.

Chase tubes are gonna be fun too, I can tell. This'll be my first remote setup so I really have no idea what I'm in for. Under the gunwales? Through the bulkheads?

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:41 pm
by Bowmovement
Looks great Matt. Coming along quite nicely.

I would run all the chase tubes under the sole.

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:47 pm
by whosmatt
Bowmovement wrote:Looks great Matt. Coming along quite nicely.

I would run all the chase tubes under the sole.

Matt
Thanks. That's likely what I'll do, just figuring out where to put them and how many will be tough. Let me know if you're up for another Green Flash excursion soon; I've got a couple people from work that I plan to take there some Friday when the weather is nice.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:01 pm
by Bowmovement
whosmatt wrote:
Bowmovement wrote:Looks great Matt. Coming along quite nicely.

I would run all the chase tubes under the sole.

Matt
Thanks. That's likely what I'll do, just figuring out where to put them and how many will be tough. Let me know if you're up for another Green Flash excursion soon; I've got a couple people from work that I plan to take there some Friday when the weather is nice.

-M
The weather is always nice!

I am down to meet up there again. It's been awhile due to the fact I don't work near there anymore but still live fairly close.
How does next Friday sound? I can promise anything cause of my schedule but I can try to make it. It shouldn't be a problem though. I am usually home pretty early on Friday afternoons.

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:22 pm
by Bowmovement
Matt,
I should more than likely be able to make it to Green Flash on Friday if you wanna meet up. As of right now I have a lunch meeting with Business development and thats it.

Its suppose to be 75 degrees and sunny 8)

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:14 am
by whosmatt
I'll let you know soon. My schedule is kind of funky because I'm trying find a roommate to share the house I'm renting now that the lady is gone. I pretty much drop everything and clean the scrap wood out of the yard whenever somebody wants to check it out... But yeah, that sounds good.

Oh, and a boat update: I got the motorwell sides and all but "B" filleted and glassed on Sunday. I spent much of my weekend cutting the grass, monkeying w/ the cars, changing oil.. you know, the things that guys who AREN"T building boats do on weekends.

Back to it this week. I'm working on a drawing of what I'd like to do at the bow, hopefully I can post that soon.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:18 pm
by Bowmovement
Sent you a PM

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:38 pm
by whosmatt
Well guys, I think I've got a problem.

I'm not sure how I didn't notice this before, or maybe I did and just ignored it, but I either have some twist in the hull, or the bow area is not symmetrical. Laying a straight edge across the sheer at station A shows that the port side is higher than the starboard. the boat is level and square, best I can tell, at the stern.

I started by using a planer to take some material off the sheer on the port side, then realized that I was just creating more work for myself in the form of gap-filling when it comes time to build the gunwale and/or breasthook, so I got the grinder out and took material off the inside of the sheer, leveling the rubrail somewhat. It's much closer now, but I'm really at a loss to determine how this happened, whether the hull is twisted, or If i just build the sides and sheer out of symmetry due to one of the panels being cut proud of the other or something like that. Here's a photo of the level as it stands now:

Bow:
Image

And Stern (sitting on the upper edge of the motorwell bulkhead):
Image

I've got the inside taped and glassed, stringers taped , motorwell bulkhead and sides taped, and frames D,C,B taped.

I've tried pulling strings from the transom corners and from the motorwell bulkhead corners, but I'm not sure where to terminate them in the bow area to make sure that things are square. So, I guess I need some ideas of how to determine where the problem is, and, if it's twist, how to fix it. If I support the stern on two jack stands and lift the bow from the rubrail at the tip, there is still a lot of flexibility in the hull.....

I'm not going to let this defeat me.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:21 pm
by whosmatt
More:

Here's a shot from the stern showing what I think is twist:
Image

Here's a quick and dirty way to put some twist on the hull:
Image

And here's the same shot from the stern with the weight hanging on the port side:
Image

If pulling the twist out is the way to go, what's my next step as far as "fixing" it that way? Will installing A stiffen it up enough? How can I be sure that what I'm doing isn't making things worse?

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:55 pm
by steve292
Did you cut the hull panels together I.e are they mirror images?
I would measure back 24" or so from the bow tip & drive a nail in the sheer on both sides. Obviously the distance has to be identical on both sides. Put 2 more nails right at the ends of the transom & run your strings around them. the strings need to JUST touch. Use wedges under the hull to take out the twist, if there is any & leave them there until the sole is in & taped, that may hold it.
Good luck,
Steve

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:34 pm
by Lung Boy
whosmatt, boat looks great to me. We are almost at the exact same point in our builds. Yours has gone much faster, congrats. I have also noticed some slight imperfections with reguards to levelness and twist in my build. Unless I point out the imperfections no one ever notices. For myself I'm going with the attitude that it will add character and have little to no effect on performance. I like Steve's plan for taking out any slight twist you may have.

mike

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:02 pm
by whosmatt
steve292 wrote:Did you cut the hull panels together I.e are they mirror images?
I would measure back 24" or so from the bow tip & drive a nail in the sheer on both sides. Obviously the distance has to be identical on both sides. Put 2 more nails right at the ends of the transom & run your strings around them. the strings need to JUST touch. Use wedges under the hull to take out the twist, if there is any & leave them there until the sole is in & taped, that may hold it.
Good luck,
Steve
No, I didn't cut them together. I sure will on the next build.

I'm not sure if wedges are going to do the trick as stiff as the hull is now... Any twist is apparent only forward of frame B or so, and really mostly at the bow. The weight seems to straighten things out immensely, but I'm worried that I'm actually doing MORE harm, i.e. introducing twist where there was little or none. I'll just measure carefully.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:04 pm
by whosmatt
Lung Boy wrote:whosmatt, boat looks great to me. We are almost at the exact same point in our builds. Yours has gone much faster, congrats. I have also noticed some slight imperfections with reguards to levelness and twist in my build. Unless I point out the imperfections no one ever notices. For myself I'm going with the attitude that it will add character and have little to no effect on performance. I like Steve's plan for taking out any slight twist you may have.

mike
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I'll race ya to the finish line....

-M

edit: are you actually a rocket scientist? haha

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:27 pm
by whosmatt
Alright, I feel (a little) better.

I used nails and pulled strings from the corners of the motorwell bulkhead to two spots on the sheer measuring about 45.5" back from the bow tip in a straight line... this roughly coincides with where a full height frame A will intersect the sheer. The lines did not touch.

I then moved the endpoint to the intersection of frame B and the stringers, and drove the nails into the stringer tops and pulled the strings again. This time, they just touch, either way I pull them (switching which one is on top to discount the effects of gravity and tenstion.) Putting the weight (previously referenced) on to twist the bow some doesn't appear to change how or where the strings intersect, which tells me that will the hull well supported, the twist doesn't extend aft very far.

Exhibit: Image
Image

So, I'm now faced with either gluing in a full height "A" with the weight on the straight edge across the sheer, or shaving the port sheer down some more to level it. The problem with the second idea is that my measure from the inside chine intersection at frame A is significantly shorter on the port side than on the starboard, and it still needs to come down a little to make it level. I'm really not sure how this happened but I'm assuming that small errors in cutting my panels along with my A mold added up to produce the problem.

If I measure the angle of the chine intersection inside the boat at A, the angle on the port side is slightly more acute than on the starboard. Of course, with the fillet and several layers of glass in place, these measurements present problems in and of themselves, but the differences are there.

Also, I suspect that using straps across the sheer to pull it in a little once flipped may have flexed one side a little more than the other, and glassing the inside and installing the frames may have set this in place.

I'm not too worried about this affecting performance as this part of the hull is generally not in the water (I assume),

So, it looks l ike I'm going to go with a full height A at its original location and work from there.

Just want to get some opinions, from those willing to give them, before I glue in the frame.

Thanks for the help... this community is an amazing resource for hacks like me.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:54 pm
by remedy32
I'm not too worried about this affecting performance as this part of the hull is generally not in the water (I assume),
Matt, I think you're right about the performance. Most of what you're dealing with will be aesthetic and probably much harder for others to spot than for you. Once you have the stringer grid in the bilge the boat gets real hard to twist much more......wait till you add the sole though for stiffness. If the "wet" part of the boat is straight and true I bet you'll be fine.

bill

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:13 pm
by Cracker Larry
I think I would try to twist it back into position with straps and weights, then hold it there while you glass in the stringers, remaining frame and the sole. Even if nobody can tell it but you, you'll know that you did the best you can with it. And rest assured that not many of our boats are perfect, but they work just fine :D

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:39 pm
by whosmatt
Thanks guys...

I went with my instinct (which I'd love to say hasn't failed me before but that would be a lie) and glued in a full-height frame A with a 2" camber.
Image

You can see the weight hanging off the straight edge. This is enough to pull the area back into relative squareness, and my hope is that once the frame is taped, the area will retain its shape. I'll have a bit of gap-filling to do when I build the breasthook / what-have-you up there, but I can handle that, I think.

I'm still a little unsure about how to finish out the compartment area at the bow, but I have an idea that I borrowed from a previous refit of an early '80s 14' carolina skiff knock-off that I refurbished. I took out the pedestal seat on that boat and replaced it with a bench, supported by cleats on the sides and a single vertical member in the center. In this case, I may create a removable bench with cleats on the sides to support it, and enough bracing along the bottom to make it inflexible. It'll be nice to have a bit of sit-down area for those times when I just want to take a few friends out in the bay to watch the fireworks or, as I wished yesterday, the Navy's aircraft parade to celebrate 100 years of naval aviation. It would be removable for fishing excursions with myself or one other person.

CL, looking forward to your new build...

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:00 am
by whosmatt
Taped in frame A just now.. everything is looking good and square and level best I can tell. I removed the weight to see what would happen, and nothing really happened. That's a good sign. Here's a photo standing in the drivers position (but not at the sole height).

Image

Moving on! I'll probably alternate between finishing out the bow area and installing chase tubes for the next little while. My plan is to bring the chase tubes aft to the starboard corner inside the motorwell, almost to the level of the motorwell top. Does that sound reasonable?

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:53 pm
by whosmatt
Quick question: who else has splashed an fs17 and has photos of it? I've looked at steve292, remedy32, shine, and of course the ongoing active builds of this boat... I'm specifically looking for photos of chase tubes. I know there are at least a few out there that I haven't seen the documentation on.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:25 pm
by Lower
Hey Matt...boat is looking good. Nice work. I haven't been around much as I really haven't been working on my boat. It's just too darn cold to get motivated! Anyway, I can't say that I have splashed but I did read as much as I could about chase tubes before I ran mine. I looked at layouts and tube sizes on boats like Larry's, and Capeman. Like you said also Steve, Jeremy, etc. I ended up doing the 3+1. If you go to my thread Lower's FS17 (around page 5 on this forum) and then goto page 13 or so on my build you will see some pics and a written desciption of what I did. Hope it helps some. Again, very nice work on the boat.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:10 am
by whosmatt
Lower wrote:Hey Matt...boat is looking good. Nice work. I haven't been around much as I really haven't been working on my boat. It's just too darn cold to get motivated! Anyway, I can't say that I have splashed but I did read as much as I could about chase tubes before I ran mine. I looked at layouts and tube sizes on boats like Larry's, and Capeman. Like you said also Steve, Jeremy, etc. I ended up doing the 3+1. If you go to my thread Lower's FS17 (around page 5 on this forum) and then goto page 13 or so on my build you will see some pics and a written desciption of what I did. Hope it helps some. Again, very nice work on the boat.
Thanks! Sorry I left you out of the list... I have seen your thread, but it's been a while.. winter, I guess. Those photos are perfect, just what I'm looking for. I may do what you did and build my console now so I can place it on the stringer grid and figure out exactly where to bring the tubes out of the sole. Are you planning for a 6gal tank under the console seat?

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:16 pm
by Lower
Please no worries. I seem to run in cycles. I do well through summer and fall then taper off in the winter. I have some heat in the garage, but not really enough to do all the epoxy work. Plus I don't mind the break. When I take breaks I seem to be fired up again to be working on it and not burned out. Only downfall is it's taking me 3 years longer than planned!!!!!!!!!

I somewhat built my console first as well. I built enough that I could place it in there for reference. I still have to complete it. I did find it necessary though to know where to run the chase tubes. As for the fuel, yes I'm planning a tank under the console seat. Probably a 12 gallon though??? I'm planning to seperate the two compartments (seat and main) for safety. I'll also vent the front compartment for fumes. From everthing I have read that should work well. Good luck with the chase tubes. If we don't get some warm weather here soon, your going to fly right by me!!!!!!!!!! I'll be asking you questions!

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:54 pm
by whosmatt
Lower wrote:Please no worries. I seem to run in cycles. I do well through summer and fall then taper off in the winter. I have some heat in the garage, but not really enough to do all the epoxy work. Plus I don't mind the break. When I take breaks I seem to be fired up again to be working on it and not burned out. Only downfall is it's taking me 3 years longer than planned!!!!!!!!!

I somewhat built my console first as well. I built enough that I could place it in there for reference. I still have to complete it. I did find it necessary though to know where to run the chase tubes. As for the fuel, yes I'm planning a tank under the console seat. Probably a 12 gallon though??? I'm planning to seperate the two compartments (seat and main) for safety. I'll also vent the front compartment for fumes. From everthing I have read that should work well. Good luck with the chase tubes. If we don't get some warm weather here soon, your going to fly right by me!!!!!!!!!! I'll be asking you questions!
Hmmm. I was planning on carrying 2 tanks and having one "live" under the console and another stowed forward (or wherever) to switch out. I wasn't aware that a 12gal would fit. That would also allow me to carry only one tank for outings I know will be short. How do you plan to power yours? I'm eyeing the 30hp Tohatsu 4 stroke but have also been looking on craigslist... some candidates are a 30hp Suzuki or a 48hp Evinrude SPL. The SPL is enticing but I'd have to add tilt and trim at some expense. Might also be nice to have a kicker for ocean boating (never too safe). I intend to run this boat out to Catalina island at some point, there is a good thread on a Whaler forum about guys making the channel crossing in 13' Whalers so I feel like the FS17 can handle it in decent weather.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:07 am
by Bowmovement
Catalina trip would be cool. I haven't been out there yet. Been wanting to go for a while. The lobstering out there is suppose to outstanding. Only problem is you are pulling hoops in some deep water. Good fishing out there too. I was stationed on San Clemente Island for 2 years which is just south of Catalina. Are those guys in the Whalers leaving out of San Diego or Long Beach. Pretty short trip from Long Beach. Alot people from San Diego will trailer to Long Beach and launch there. But either way the FS17 would make it no problem, weather permitting.

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:25 pm
by whosmatt
Most of them go from Dana Point or Long Beach, I think. Funny you should mention San Clemente... just the other day, when the offshore winds were blowing, I could see San Clemente from Carlsbad... That's gotta be a good 60NM.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:10 pm
by Bowmovement
whosmatt wrote:Most of them go from Dana Point or Long Beach, I think. Funny you should mention San Clemente... just the other day, when the offshore winds were blowing, I could see San Clemente from Carlsbad... That's gotta be a good 60NM.

-M
If I remember correctly it is right now 60NM from Coronado to San Clemente. Carlsbad would be a little closer. I dont miss that rock.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:31 pm
by Lower
Matt...I'm planning on a 40 or 50, depending on what I find. Just to clarify, the 12 gallon will fit because I built it to fit :D . I pretty much copied Jeremys diminsions he shows on his build thread. If you build the console that came with the plans then I can't say if it will fit or not. I would be happy to give you the diminsions I went with but they are within an inch or two to Jeremys.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:41 pm
by whosmatt
Lower wrote:Matt...I'm planning on a 40 or 50, depending on what I find. Just to clarify, the 12 gallon will fit because I built it to fit :D . I pretty much copied Jeremys diminsions he shows on his build thread. If you build the console that came with the plans then I can't say if it will fit or not. I would be happy to give you the diminsions I went with but they are within an inch or two to Jeremys.
Sorry for my ignorance, but which user is Jeremy? I also have my eye on the 40hp Tohatsu TLDI; we'll see. Seems like the weight really jumps up when you get to the 40hp category, at least with new motors.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:07 pm
by Lower
Hey Matt...page 37 in the gallery has Jeremy's boat. It's titled jgroves. Flick through the pictures and you eventually come across his console. He posted some diminsions. You can also see how you like the looks of it. I think it looks real proportionate and nice. He also has a build thread titled...FS17 taking shape...not sure where that is. Hope this helps.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:41 am
by whosmatt
Lower wrote:Hey Matt...page 37 in the gallery has Jeremy's boat. It's titled jgroves. Flick through the pictures and you eventually come across his console. He posted some diminsions. You can also see how you like the looks of it. I think it looks real proportionate and nice. He also has a build thread titled...FS17 taking shape...not sure where that is. Hope this helps.
Thanks... I had not seen that build at all before, I think because the thread title has a space between "FS" and "17," which I never thought to split up in my searches.

It's a nice looking craft, and a very similar color to what I'm planning, except with a graphite bottom. EDIT: Just read the thread, and that is the exact paint and color I'm using. Sweet. Nice to know it will look good :P

The gallery contains some of the most useful photos i've seen concerning gunwale building as well. And seeing the boat sitting in the water with a 50hp 4 stroke hanging off the back makes me think those motors are not at all too heavy for the boat.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:36 pm
by whosmatt
Hey fellow builders,

I'm about to start installing cleats... quick question: Should I pre-coat them with epoxy prior to installing?

Also, I'm using 1 3/8" square pine. It seems a little bulky, but it's what I seem to see in photos a lot. The next smallest size is more like 1 1/2 x 3/4" ... wondering if i'll save a significant amount of weight by stepping down a bit.

Thanks,

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:02 pm
by Prarie Dog
Matt, I used 3/4 x 3/4 cleats on my GF18. When laminated on each side of a frame I had a glue surface that was almost 2". Seems to have worked fine. I have some frames that have a cleat on the inside, and are flush with a deck on the outside. These joints were rounded over and a piece of 6 oz woven was glassed down. All this worked fine and is very strong. :D I'm sure these cleats are much lighter than those 1 3/8 squares, how much I don't know.

Edit. I would precoat them prior to gluing them in place. It's hard to get to the bottom of cleats that are glued to the stringers if you wait to coat them.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:05 pm
by whosmatt
Prarie Dog wrote:Matt, I used 3/4 x 3/4 cleats on my GF18. When laminated on each side of a frame I had a glue surface that was almost 2". Seems to have worked fine. I have some frames that have a cleat on the inside, and are flush with a deck on the outside. These joints were rounded over and a piece of 6 oz woven was glassed down. All this worked fine and is very strong. :D I'm sure these cleats are much lighter than those 1 3/8 squares, how much I don't know.

Edit. I would precoat them prior to gluing them in place. It's hard to get to the bottom of cleats that are glued to the stringers if you wait to coat them.
Thanks for the input. After wasting time and material with the larger stuff, I grabbed some 5/8x1 3/8 furring strips... They are half the size of what I planned to use... I made this decision after weighing one of the larger pieces of coated material and realizing that I could save probably 30lbs by moving down a size. If I had a table saw, I'd rip these in half and end up with 3/4" square material (actual measurements are 3/4" by 1.5"). I'll chalk up the pint of wasted epoxy to experience. It's small potatoes compared to what I've wasted so far anyway....

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:08 pm
by whosmatt
I've got the cleats installed and have drilled holes (much to the detriment of my cheap drill) and dry-fitted two chase tubes....

One is for controls, the other for engine electrical.
Image

I plan to run at least one more for fuel to the stern. I had originally planned to run another to the stern for the transducer and whatever else might go in there, and one to the bow for lighting. I'm starting to rethink that plan, as I don't particularly think the extra weight and trouble will be worth it. Part of my hesitation is that I don't want any way for water to get under the sole in the bow area and I'm not exactly sure how I'm going to finish out the compartment yet. It seems like it would be relatively easy to run a short tube from beneath the console and straight up the side of the boat under the gunwale, and bring light wiring and transducer cables through that and run them fore and aft from there, beneath the gunwale.

I used a straight edge to quickly estimate how much room I have between the sole and the keel at frame A and it's not much. Unless I build a shelf inside the bow compartment, there will be plenty of ways for water to get in there... and probably even if I do. I'm not planning on a casting deck like some others..
Image

Anyway, that's where I am these days.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:42 pm
by whosmatt
Alright, here's what I've ended up with as far as running tubes to the stern:
Image

Here's how they terminate in the motorwell sides:
Image
and
Image

Still undecided about how to get lighting to the bow. I feel like a 1.5" pvc conduit is overkill as I only intend to have a LED bow light up there and maybe a LED inside the compartment, depending. Anybody ever use flexible conduit? Seems like whatever I do will have to follow the curvature of the keel.

Also, any problems with how they're bunched together at the console location? They're kind of tight. Might chafing be a problem?

Thanks,

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:10 am
by chicagoross
Looks to me that you've about covered chases for everything you could fit on a 17'boat! Except - seperate chases for tank and vnets (if any), and small chase forward for bowlight?

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:24 am
by Prarie Dog
Ross, good catch on the bowlight chase. What's going in all those chases Matt? :D

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:26 am
by remedy32
Matt,
Looks like a pretty large tube for the steering cable....good. The end is longer than I thought and made for a few head scratching moments trying to make the turns. I was lucky to have an old cable on hand and realize that my first try at bending tube just didn't work for it. About the chase to the bow....why not just a cable tucked under the gunwale? That's what I'm going to do when spring arrives. LED's draw so little current that this can almost be done with doorbell wire...OK a big spotlight might be another matter though.

Looks great!!

bill

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:30 am
by Cracker Larry
Anybody ever use flexible conduit? Seems like whatever I do will have to follow the curvature of the keel.
Yes, I used it to get wiring to the bow myself

Image

Looking good Matt!

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:55 am
by stickystuff
the flex tube,(down here they call it smurf tube) is good. Just suck a pull string through it with a vaccuum cleaner. You can feed wire through it with all the ridges and bends. Always leave a pull wire through it for future wires if needed.The double offset bend for steerin controls might be a challenge due to the stiffness of the shift cables as well as steering.On the steering you will def. have to deed it from stern to console then attach to steering head. If you go from console it will not turn due to the steering bar that goes to engine. It will not make the bends. Looks great . Good planning. :)

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:28 pm
by whosmatt
Prarie Dog wrote:Ross, good catch on the bowlight chase. What's going in all those chases Matt? :D
2" for controls
1.5" for engine electrical / lighting, etc
1.5" for fuel
1.5" for whatever else -- transducer, antenna, etc.

Then whatever I need toward the bow.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:26 pm
by chicagoross
Sounds like you've got it all covered, with plenty of room for future expansion!

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:47 pm
by Bowmovement
Sounds like a plan. Just to emphasize what Sticky said leave a pull string in all chase tubes. If you ever have to use the pull string, pull another. They make life so much easier.

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:44 pm
by LOW277
The blue flexible tubing is commonly refered to as Smurf Tube it is officialy electrical nonmettallic tubing or ENT. It is commonly available in 1/2", 3/4" & 1" larger sizes are available. You can cut it with a pocket knife and standard gray electrical pvc fittings will glue on to it.

Seems to be pretty durable, although it might get brittle if sujected to below freezing temps. I have used thousands of feet of this stuff back in the 1980's. It's actually easier to push/pull wire into than flexible metal conduit.

It should work well in a boat.

I have been following your build as I am interested in trying to build a FS17.

Keep up the good work! :D

Low277

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:49 pm
by Bowmovement
I always called it liquid tight. Used to have some laying around, 3/4". I wil see if I still have it if you want some. It may have gotten thrown away when we moved though.

Maybe liquid tight is something different than that smurf tube they are talking about.

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:08 pm
by LOW277
Liquid Tight is another type of flexible conduit. It can be nonmetallic LNFC or metalic LMFC. The most common outer jacket color seems to be gray, although I have seen blue and black as well. The outer jacket is much smoother than ENT and most liquid tight or seal tight ( a brand name ) is UV resistant as well.

I now use liquid tight/ seal tight by the hundreds of feet a year where I work for flexible connections to electric motors or other equipment, both indoors and outside. It is much more durable than ENT but it is harder to work with and more expensive.

Just depends on your application, and any code compliance issues if you are using it for power wiring in a building or structure which falls under the domain of NFPA 70


Sorry if long winded, I've been a electrician for over 25 years and I am looking for a hobby.

Hopefully boatbuilding! :D :D

Low277

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:19 pm
by whosmatt
Thanks guys... I'll check out my options. I hope to get the holes sealed, the rest of the cleats installed, and foaming started soon. I'm a little distracted by the ACC tournament right now but I can do that and build at the same time.

And yeah, I understand about the strings. I worked at a hydroelectric plant for a summer during college (Gov't work FTW) and we had to drain 40 year old conduit that had cracked due to concrete shift and then pull wire through it. We ended up taping a ping pong ball to a string and sucking it through.. after sucking many gallons of water out of course. Good times. That was unused spare conduit though. I want to seal this sucker up and never look at it again.

Matt, PM me if you want to stop by and see the build. I'm back at it after some life interference. I'll show you everything I did wrong so you don't have to make the same mistakes.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:27 pm
by whosmatt
LOW277 wrote: Sorry if long winded, I've been a electrician for over 25 years and I am looking for a hobby.

Hopefully boatbuilding! :D :D

Low277
BTW, you really should build. And it's not a hobby. Model airplanes are a hobby. This will take over your life if you let it. :P I sometimes feel as if this boat is defeating me, but the folks on this forum are incredibly helpful and encouraging. It's really nice to have so many people who have completed a boat and yet stay around to help the rest of us who haven't. I highly recommend it.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:39 pm
by whosmatt
Quick question for the builders who have preceded me: what's the best way to secure cleats to the sides of the boat while the epoxy cures? On the motorwell I can use screws... what about the sides?

Thanks,

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:15 am
by Fonda@kauai
I usually use PVC clamps or similar whenever possible just to avoid more holes to fill :lol: But both ways work well. Do you have a pic really see the area in question ?

Edit: I see what you're getting at now, I used a scrap piece of 1x2 cut to just the right length to apply pressure to the cleats on the side of the boat. (under the sole, right?) Hope that helps :D

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:33 am
by BamBam6877
Hot glue also works.

Sheldon

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:13 am
by Cracker Larry
Yep, hot glue is the trick :wink: Just leave one or 2 small spots dry of epoxy, put a dab of hot glue on the dry spots and press into place.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:33 pm
by whosmatt
Cracker Larry wrote:Yep, hot glue is the trick :wink: Just leave one or 2 small spots dry of epoxy, put a dab of hot glue on the dry spots and press into place.
Perfect. I guess i get to make another trip to the home improvement circus. haha, it never seems to end.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:11 am
by Bowmovement
Matt,

Sorry about last weekend, I wanted to get down there but the ACC championship game was on and the Tarheels were playing and could leave. Cant miss a Carolina vs. Puke game. Lets not discuss the outcome. I swear I am going to make it over.

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:31 am
by whosmatt
Getting back to it after a bit of a hiatus. I've got my cleats in, my sole pieces cut, and I'm about to install the conduit prior to foaming.
Image

I'm thinking of putting a tinted coat of epoxy over the entire area beneath the sole, just to make sure it's sealed... Just wondering who else has done this, if anyone, and whether it's worth my time.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:05 pm
by Steven
whosmatt wrote:Getting back to it after a bit of a hiatus. I've got my cleats in, my sole pieces cut, and I'm about to install the conduit prior to foaming.

I'm thinking of putting a tinted coat of epoxy over the entire area beneath the sole, just to make sure it's sealed... Just wondering who else has done this, if anyone, and whether it's worth my time.

-M
IMO, not worth the time. Two coats of properly applied epoxy is all you need.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:08 pm
by whosmatt
Steven wrote: IMO, not worth the time. Two coats of properly applied epoxy is all you need.
This would be the second coat for most of it... So I'll go ahead and do it... The tint helps with making sure I've got the insides of the holes in the frames and stringers coated, etc. I have a dentists mirror that I'm using to make sure the less visible surfaces are coated. I did pre-coat the cleats prior to installing. Thanks for the reply.

-Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:25 pm
by wegcagle
If it's only the second coat, then you may as well throw some tint in it. Doesn't hurt anything and it's really easy to do. Plus you'll be happier that it's done right. I agree with Steven, as long as there's 2 COMPLETE coats of epoxy you're good. I will say that it takes at least 2-3 coats of the gray tint to turn out as nice as Steven's livewell. First coat kind of looks part gray part clear.

Will

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:53 pm
by Steven
Throwing tint in isn't as easy as it sounds. It's ridiculously thick. It takes a lot of extra stirring. If it's hot you have to be careful not to mix too much or it will kick before you can get it thoroughly mixed. While I got great results after mixing in enough tint, I don't like fooling with it. It is very sticky and a pain to work with. Plus, you'll likely have pinholes in the tinted coating as it's thicker and you end up with some. The second coat of tint for me was more about filling any pin holes. Then you'll be worrying if those need to be filled or not, which is way too much effort for below the sole. If it's shiny, it's coated. I'd move on. :)

It would be nice if the tint was in a tube so you could just squeeze what you want into your mixed epoxy. That would make it much nicer to work with.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 3:19 pm
by wegcagle
It is a really thick paste, and tough to get started. I didn't find it too difficult to work with. I use a small paint stirrer on my power drill, and just mix it in a plastic measuring cup at slower speeds until it's uniformly tinted. Takes a couple of minutes for sure. I like using it a lot. I have even used it as a final coat of epoxy after fairing my console to see how it looked before I put primer on it.

One of the coolest things about this process is that everyone does it a little different. As long as we are giving sound advice I figure go for it. Either way works perfectly well, and you will end up with a great boat.


Will

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 4:58 pm
by whosmatt
The tint I'm using is actually thinner than the resin. It's supposed to be mixed at 1 oz per quart of resin. I'm just eyeballing it... this isn't for looks (obviously), it's just so I can see the coverage better. here's what I've got so far. I've already coated the motorwell side compartments as well...
Image

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:47 pm
by Steven
Cool. What kind of tint are you using?

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 2:11 am
by whosmatt
Steven wrote:Cool. What kind of tint are you using?
It's a liquid I got from US Composites.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:19 pm
by whosmatt
Started installing chase tubes tonight and quickly realized the buildup of epoxy inside the holes I cut for them was making things way too tight. Got out the dremel and one of the little sanding drums and removed enough material so things fit nicely again. Recoated... Now I have to wait for this one to set up before applying another coat. I'll watch the runoff this time. It's always something.....

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:32 am
by whosmatt
Got started foaming last night. It's been a while since I worked with this stuff... it's kind of fun. I just did the three compartments closest to the stern for now... but I'm going to do them all. I used a couple of pieces of scrap plywood backed with plastic to cover the compartments and try and get the foam flush. It didn't really work.... it made it flat but not flush. Oh well.
Image
Image

Good times... I hope to get all the compartments foamed this weekend... and maybe, just maybe, the sole in???? That might be wishing for too much.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:31 pm
by whosmatt
Got the foam in. Pouring it is fun, trimming it is a mess.
Image

Cut opening in the sole for the chase tubes. Here's the three sole pieces, dry fit:
Image

Thinking about how to assemble/install the sole. I'm working alone, so I'm thinking that I'll install it in three pieces, gluing butt blocks as I go. If anyone else has done this, I'd love to hear how it went. I'll have to dig out foam in between the stringers to make this work. I'm also waiting for measurments on a leaning post I have my eye on so I'll want to glue backing plates for that before installing the sole. Even if I decide to forgo the leaning post, I still want to have the option later without too much trouble.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:12 pm
by steve292
I put them in single handed, there's more photo's in my gallery(Page 16ish). It's easy enough you just need to prep properly.


Image

Image

Steve

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:25 pm
by whosmatt
Had a bit of a mishap last night... coated the two remaining pieces of sole and left them out overnight because I didn't have anywhere else to put them. It rained. There was perhaps 8 hours between the time that I coated them until the time that it rained. When I examined them in the AM, the epoxy was still tacky and there was a milky buildup in places. Now, there's this:
Image

I guess I'll wash them as best I can and sand whatever I can off. Lesson learned.... don't trust the "partly cloudy" forecast. I didn't see any mention of showers....
-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:29 pm
by gstanfield
Well that just sucks! Hopefully it'll still cure out good for you and at least it's on the sole so it's not big deal. Just let it cure, sand it a bit and it'll be ready for some kiwi-grip :D

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:33 pm
by wegcagle
That sucks :!: I had something similar happen on my inwales. I sanded it down really well, let the wood dry for a week or so. Hit it one more time with the sander to make sure I was good, and refiberglassed the area.

It's just a small blip in an otherwise flawless performance :D

Will

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:28 pm
by whosmatt
Thanks... the darker areas in the photo are where it was milky after getting wet... the lighter areas cured up just fine. It's really sticky, and after a bit of experimentation (with water, denatured alcohol, and then acetone) it looks like my best bet is pouring acetone on the surface liberally and then scraping with a metal blade. I ran out of acetone just now and need to get a wider blade, but that and elbow grease seems to do the trick. If i can get it to a point where it's not sticky (enough to sand, anyway), I'll proceed. Otherwise, I might just relegate these pieces to the desert bonfire and start over. I do have a couple more pieces of 9mm meranti that was for the console, but I can get more, or just make the console out of something cheaper... I should mention that this is the bottom of the sole... I don't care how it looks, but it's gotta be watertight.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:12 pm
by whosmatt
Alright, one down... Acetone and scraping... more acetone and scraping, then the trusty RO got me this:
Image

Here's some of what I scraped off. Reminds me a bit of the cup that used to sit beside my grandpa's armchair.

Image

One more to go.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:43 am
by wegcagle
Nice work. That plywood looks pretty as the day she was born :D

Will

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 8:20 pm
by whosmatt
Getting closer to installing the sole. I've got 2 coats of epoxy on the bottom of each piece, and butt blocks fitted and glued where appropriate.

I never heard back from the leaning post folks (leaning-posts.com) about the spacing of the feet, so not sure where to glue backing blocks. Also, I'm interested to hear from those who have built a center console boat (not just this one) about what preparations they made for bolting the console in before installing the sole. I've studied the tutorial about how to install the console, and i'm kind of surprised that bolts are specified, given the massive gluing surface and fiberglass tabs. Anyway, for those who have come before me, I'd like to hear how you handled that.

I spent a lot of time tweaking my console design this weekend. I started with the dimensions given in the plans, and drew them up in Google Sketchup (a great program, and free). I made a 3d model (really just a block) with the given dimensions of Moeller's low profile 12 Gal topside tank and then stretched the console in a couple of dimensions (not making it any taller) so that the tank would fit beneath the seat. I also made sure that I could squeeze a size 24 battery box in there (I'll separate the fuel and battery of course) in case I want to have the battery there as well. Here's a mockup of the boat interior with the console and a person the same height as me (5' 10").Image

It seems a little short just by looking at it; but I'm not sure since I've not owned a center console boat before.

Also, today I measured and cut out a piece of 6mm (it's what I had in scrap) to make a small front deck for the bow compartment. It's not a casting deck or anything, just a flat surface terminating where the bow and chines meet, for storing an extra fuel tank and an anchor.
ImageImage

I'll fill it in with foam, and probably stiffen the 6mm by gluing a few strips of scrap on the underside .My plan is to have it covered completely, with an access hatch on frame A.

-Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 9:51 pm
by whosmatt
Moving along slowly. I got the front "deck" area foamed in and installed.
ImageImageImageImage

The light colored putty in the last photo was made with the last of a batch of tinted epoxy I used to coat the new front sole piece I cut because the previous one didn't fit the hull very well.

I finally heard back from the maker of a leaning post I have my eye on about dimensions for the pads, so I'm ready to glue backing blocks and install the sole. I'm also going to mark the console footprint on the sole and drill and install bolts for the console. I'm thinking that I'll just overdrill the holes, fill them, re-drill, and then epoxy bolts and washers in place so that I can just drop the console on and install nuts.

I'm also thinking about the bilge area. I'm thinking that I'll drill limber holes in the bulkheads and stringers so that all three compartments drain to the center where I'll install a drain plug in the transom and a bilge pump in case something serious happens. I'm curious to hear how other builders have handled this situation. I'm undecided about hatches on the motorwell but since my controls and fuel will have to exit the sides, there will be the possibility of water intrusion. I'm thinking 3/4" holes in the bulkheads and stringers, double coated with epoxy. I wish I had thought of this earlier.... next time, I guess.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 9:58 pm
by gstanfield
Looking good Matt. I don't really have a good answer to any of your questions, but I did want to say I like what you're doing :D

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 10:09 pm
by whosmatt
Thanks, George. Any vote of confidence is appreciated.

Also, I neglected to mention that the leaning post builder (not the one I spoke of earlier) is extremely friendly and suggested that I use aluminum backing plates so that I can drill and tap them rather than using lag bolts or whatever else I might use to secure a leaning post into 3/4" or whatever thickness of wood I end up with. If anyone has input I'd love to hear it now. I should mention that the backing plates will essentially have to butt against the stringers/frames as far as I can tell, so aluminum is probably out of the question unless I do some serious routing and planning. I'm not necessarily sold on a leaning post, but I'm going to want to have *something* to put my butt on while I troll. He does also mention that the 30" model will fit a 48 quart cooler beneath it..... handy, for sure :P

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 12:26 pm
by Mad Dog
Matt,

Just a little feed back on the backing plates for your leaning post. On my rebuild I used aluminum backing plates to anchor the T-top to the sole. Instead of tapping the plate I used stainless t-nuts because my plate was only 3/16" thick. Except for two t-nuts that got cross-threaded it seems to work fine. You can save a little $ by gluing plywood backing and inserting t-nuts. When you over-drill and fill, if line up the bolts in the hole before you fill then the filler will be threaded as well giving you threads through the thickness of the plywood as well as the T-nut. If you look in Cracker Larry's build he added a t-top after the fact. He has a diagram that will give you a visual of this approach. You just get to do it in advance of gluing down the sole.

MD :wink:

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 1:50 pm
by Prarie Dog
Matt, I think I had the same console plans you got. I didn't put the bottom in the console or use the bolts, mine is tabbed with biax on the outside. A lot of guys have tabbed theirs on the inside and outside. Mine is holding up just fine, but having said that I haven't hit a reef going fast and piled my fat a** into it yet. If that happens we'll see how strong fillets and tape on four sides is. :D

Edit: BTW you have a real nice looking build going and wanted to know how many of those landscape blocks you've glued down. We had to work for about an hour to remove one from my sole. :doh:

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 9:42 pm
by whosmatt
Prarie Dog wrote:
Edit: BTW you have a real nice looking build going and wanted to know how many of those landscape blocks you've glued down. We had to work for about an hour to remove one from my sole. :doh:
Thanks! The answer is: none (so far). That said, I haven't glued down the sole yet, so anything can happen.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 3:54 pm
by whosmatt
Alright, got my first section of the sole glued in! Here it is, with backing for a leaning post. The backing is an extra two layers of 9mm, epoxy glued, and is twice as wide and 4" longer in each direction than the pads of the leaning post I'm looking at. I'm planning to fasten with stainless lag bolts. It's broken up because it straddles the D frame, and it's also just on the outside of each stringer.
Image

And here it is, glued down.Image

I can't wait to get the rest glued in. I'm really tired of the foam dust getting all over everything :P

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 3:57 pm
by whosmatt
Oh, also, there's a '96 Merc 50hp four stroke on ebay that caught my eye; it's super clean... but I'm having trouble finding any definite info about the weight and displacement of this motor.. I suspect that it's a 4cyl and shares its block with much bigger motors and probably isn't appropriate for this boat, but my google searches aren't turning up anything specific. Anybody ever own one of these?

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 1:03 am
by whosmatt
Sole is in.
Image


It's Miller time. Actually, in my case, it's Ballast Point Big Eye IPA time, but who's counting :P

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 7:36 am
by Steven
That's a great milestone. Walking on a solid, level sole makes it nice.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:28 pm
by Bowmovement
whosmatt wrote:

It's Miller time. Actually, in my case, it's Ballast Point Big Eye IPA time, but who's counting :P
Grats on the sole.

Have you tried their Sculpin IPA? Its a little better in my opinion. Hard to find though. You can pick it up at the brewery store though.

Just an FYI, Green Flash is moving to Mira Mesa. This weekend is their last in Carlsbad. :(

Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:54 pm
by whosmatt
Bowmovement wrote: Have you tried their Sculpin IPA? Its a little better in my opinion. Hard to find though. You can pick it up at the brewery store though.

Just an FYI, Green Flash is moving to Mira Mesa. This weekend is their last in Carlsbad. :(

Matt

I heard they were moving but thought the brewery was staying where it was.... oh well. I'm about to start commuting via train and bicycle anyway, so I won't generally have a way to get over there any more. At least, that's the plan. I'm gonna try it tomorrow and see how it works out for me.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:58 pm
by Bowmovement
whosmatt wrote:
Bowmovement wrote: Have you tried their Sculpin IPA? Its a little better in my opinion. Hard to find though. You can pick it up at the brewery store though.

Just an FYI, Green Flash is moving to Mira Mesa. This weekend is their last in Carlsbad. :(

Matt

I heard they were moving but thought the brewery was staying where it was.... oh well. I'm about to start commuting via train and bicycle anyway, so I won't generally have a way to get over there any more. At least, that's the plan. I'm gonna try it tomorrow and see how it works out for me.
Save money in gas 8)

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 10:40 pm
by whosmatt
Bowmovement wrote:
Save money in gas 8)
That's the idea. I'm gonna throw my bike in the back of my truck and drive to the station in Old Town (7 miles), ride the coaster to Carlsbad, and then bike to work (3 miles). If I get a wild hair, I might bike to and from both stations. Gonna start slow, though. Either way, it beats the hell out of driving a truck 65 miles a day at $4 a gallon. Plus, I hear the coaster ride is beautiful. I get to look at the Pacific ocean for 45 minutes and don't have to be in traffic. Sounds like a win to me.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 8:52 pm
by Bowmovement
whosmatt wrote:
Bowmovement wrote:
Save money in gas 8)
That's the idea. I'm gonna throw my bike in the back of my truck and drive to the station in Old Town (7 miles), ride the coaster to Carlsbad, and then bike to work (3 miles). If I get a wild hair, I might bike to and from both stations. Gonna start slow, though. Either way, it beats the hell out of driving a truck 65 miles a day at $4 a gallon. Plus, I hear the coaster ride is beautiful. I get to look at the Pacific ocean for 45 minutes and don't have to be in traffic. Sounds like a win to me.

-M
Wish I could do that. My schedule doesn't permit that. Oh well.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 9:06 pm
by peter-curacao
Bowmovement wrote:
Wish I could do that. My schedule doesn't permit that. Oh well.
The grass is always greener.......

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:33 pm
by whosmatt
So far so good w/ the train > bike commute. Legs are still a bit wobbly.

On to gunwales and covering the front storage area. I rough cut a piece from the 9mm from my original front sole piece that I replaced with one that fit a little better:
Image
Image

This will work for me, but I'm wondering if it will be better (and save a little weight) if I make it out of 6mm instead. I plan to make my gunwales out of 6mm anyway, so I'll probably buy some more. I guess what I'm wondering is if I make it from 6mm, whether it will be strong enough.

I plan to cut out this area to access the storage:Image

I'll rough cut the bottom line (which is just an approximation) and then trim it to match the level of the deck that I already installed (see recent posts for photos).

Last question: I have cut my side frames for the gunwale (making them 6" wide at the top and 3" at the bottom for a 6" gunwale). Any tips on how to hold these while gluing? [edit: i figured it out]
Image
Thanks,

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:02 pm
by remedy32
Matt,
Go with the 6mm. It's plenty strong enough, weighs 1/3 less and bends easier to follow the sheer contour of the bow. It worked out great for me.

bill

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:18 pm
by whosmatt
remedy32 wrote:Matt,
Go with the 6mm. It's plenty strong enough, weighs 1/3 less and bends easier to follow the sheer contour of the bow. It worked out great for me.

bill
Thanks, Bill. I'll probably see if they have some 6566 to finish up the topsides and console. I've still got 1088 for the rest of the motorwell.

I rough cut my opening for the forward compartment while waiting for some epoxy to cure:

Image

I ended up leaving a 1" lip at the bottom, to keep stuff from sliding out onto the deck. I'll cut a couple of limber holes to drain anything that happens to get in there.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 5:09 pm
by whosmatt
So now that I'm finishing out the cockpit, I'm about to order hardware for bow and transom eyes, scuppers, etc. I have a couple of questions about the scuppers. First, I'm planning on using stainless thru hulls with hose barbs for 1.5" ID hose. I'm thinking about how to install on the cockpit side, having to make the thru hull flush with the sole and allow for the flange. I've read posts about fittings that are designed for such installations, but I can't seem to find them anywhere.

Second, I'm thinking of using the inline valves since the thru hulls I've selected don't have them. Has anyone ever used these? http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us ... art=110862

Lastly, any tips on how to draw the pattern for the gunwale decks would be appreciated. My plan, for now, is to install cleats, then clamp or screw a furring strip to the inside and use those curves in addition to the rubrail to trace the pattern on the plywood. If there's a quicker or better method, I'd love to hear it.

Excited about getting closer! Also, I've got a flanging tool in my shopping cart right now.... I know there was one being passed around via mail earlier. If it's available I'd be glad to ship it back or to the next guy once finished. Otherwise I'll just drop the $36 and maybe pass it along to someone who needs it. Or use it on the next build :P

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:41 pm
by whosmatt
Wow, almost a month since my last update. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. I've built the console now. Still have to tape the seams and glue it in, but i'm waiting for that until I finish the gunwales. I just have to install the coaming; the decks are installed. Similarly, I'm waiting to glue down the breasthook until I finish the bow eye install and paint the locker. I've got the hatches, and have cut my motorwell bottom and side tops, and will install them after I install the thru-hulls and bilge pump. Then, It'll be time to paint! at that point, i'm gonna yank this thing out of the garage (will need some help), paint the hull, and take her down to get a motor.

I'll post just one pic, but if you want to see more, you can check out my gallery at https://picasaweb.google.com/matt.boswell/BoatBuild

Image

-Matt

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:14 pm
by whosmatt
Well, four months later, and I'm still plugging away. I'm mostly down to fairing the interior and gunwales at this point. I've got the console in, and the motorwell is complete, at least as far as the gluing and glassing goes. Painted the inside of it with Bilgekote (nasty stuff, bought a respirator after the first coat left me a bit dizzy even with the garage doors open and a fan going).

I kind of built myself into a corner with the gunwales at the transom... I left myself no space to drill and install the cleats I bought... :oops: Will figure it out, though. Got to locate and cut holes / install backing for stuff like rod holders, lights, cleats, etc.

I installed a "plate" in the back for the bilge pump since I don't want screws going into the hull... but that puts the pump and float switch about 20mm higher than the bottom, so it will never really be able to pump it dry. I got the smallest Rule pump (360 gph) and plan to install a larger one with a manual switch for that one time I really need it. I put the 360 to the test by using it (hooked to a 12V 2A power supply intended for an external hard drive) to pump out my 300 gallon hot tub. Took about 1.5 hrs, pumping over the side of the tub and through 50' of garden hose. Not too bad, all things considered.

Will post some pics soon. Going slow has allowed me to continue to squirrel away money for my big purchases, namely the trailer and 50hp Tohatsu TLDI. I haven't gone into debt on this project yet...

Will post some more pics soon.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:26 pm
by whosmatt
Quick phone shot from the door of the garage:Image

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:35 pm
by gstanfield
Getting closer and looking good :D

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:59 am
by Cracker Larry
Looks real good 8)

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:40 am
by peter-curacao
Very nice! 8)

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:38 am
by topwater
Boat looks good , build on 8)

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:10 pm
by Uncle D
Looks great Matt :!:

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:19 pm
by whosmatt
Thanks for the kind words, guys.

I have a question: Having never mounted a remote steer outboard before, I'm using the Tohatsu manual and my wits to figure out where to drill for the bolt holes. Here's the diagram:

Image

My plan is this: Drill at the location of the top hole in the bracket, 2" down from the top of the transom, measured from the outside edge. Then, measure down to the center of the range for the lower bolt holes and drill there, 281.5mm from the top of the transom. Obviously, I've marked the centerline and am working laterally from there. I made my splashwell rather deep, and I need to clear that on the bottom. Because the bottom holes will fall below the lower edge of the clamping board as I built it, I put two 4x4" backing plates of 10mm ply to drill in to. I plan to drill, say 1.25" holes and completely fill them in with epoxy and wood flour. Then, I plan to re-fair the area and prime and paint, and save the final mounting hole drilling for when the motor is actually installed. The somewhat large holes should allow for mounting the motor properly without drilling through wood. Does this sound like what I need to be doing? Are the backing plates enough, or should I double up on thickness?

Thanks for any input. I'm spending my time locating and overdrilling / filling holes for hardware, etc prior to final fairing and painting. I ended up getting some top mount cleats for the stern gunwales since my through-bolt ones won't fit. Easy fix.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:24 am
by cottontop
Mat you do fine work. John 8)

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:20 pm
by TRC886
whosmatt wrote: Image

My plan is this: Drill at the location of the top hole in the bracket, 2" down from the top of the transom, measured from the outside edge. Then, measure down to the center of the range for the lower bolt holes and drill there, 281.5mm from the top of the transom.
-M
8O WHOA :!: :!: :!:
If you drill for the top hole, you need to drill at the top of the lower slot :!: The first and fourth holes measure 2.2" on center, just like the slot at the bottom. To get the full range of adjustment, the upper and lower holes must be 8" O/C :!:

I suggest measuring the length of the shaft, from the cavitation plate up, and drilling the holes wherever they happen to fall. This will insure that the cav plate is positioned exactly where you want it.

trc

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:59 pm
by Cracker Larry
To get the full range of adjustment, the upper and lower holes must be 8" O/C :!:
Exactly. Since about 1984 there has been a universal bolt pattern for all brands, from about 30 hp up to 300. If you use these measurements and the transom is the correct height for the engine, you will get the full range of adjustment. Most installers have metal drilling jigs that hang from the transom. I borrowed one from my local dealer and made a copy of it :D

Image

You can find the templates online and I had a posted a picture of it years ago, can't find it now :doh: Simple though. There are four holes, two at top, two at bottom. Dimensions are to bolt centers.

From the top of the transom, both top holes are 1-7/8" down, and the bottom holes are 8" down from those.

Top holes are a total of 12-7/8" apart, or 6-7/16" from transom center line.

Bottom holes are a total of 9-7/8" apart, or 4-15/16" from transom center line.

This is the universal bolt hole pattern, that's what you should drill it to match. Any engine or jackplate on the market will fit that pattern :wink:

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:49 pm
by whosmatt
Perfect. This is exactly what this board is for I guess.

I'm afraid that I'm going to have to re-do my splashwell top, then. The stern edge of it falls just where the two lower bolt holes will go, best I can tell. I guess i'll just have to measure it out and drill a couple of pilot holes to make sure, since the edge is thick with fillet and glass, but I think I'll have to move it. Not the end of the world, a jigsaw and my angle grinder with 40 grit flap discs can make quick work of just about anything. I was thinking that I made it too deep anyway. I have a dealer in mind, but they probably think I'm a flake since I've been predicting the end of this build for, what, a year now? :oops: If I can get my hands on one of those templates, though, I'll do it.

Any rule of thumb for how much splashwell I need to fully tilt the motor? I originally built it so that it matches the angle and depth of the cuts (for the clamping board) in the motorwell sides, if that makes sense.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:48 pm
by Cracker Larry
About 6" deep on the splash well at the stern will easily handle a 70 hp Yamaha.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:10 am
by Matt Gent
Image

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:59 pm
by TRC886
Before I reworked my splashwell, I believe that I would determine exactly how high I needed to mount the motor, then drill the holes to fit. By determining the correct mounting height ahead of time, you should not need the full range of vertical adjustment, and you'll save yourself a lot of work modifying the 'well. I would try to keep the holes "standard" if I could though...you may want to replace the motor one day :wink:

trc

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:21 pm
by whosmatt
TRC886 wrote:Before I reworked my splashwell, I believe that I would determine exactly how high I needed to mount the motor, then drill the holes to fit. By determining the correct mounting height ahead of time, you should not need the full range of vertical adjustment, and you'll save yourself a lot of work modifying the 'well. I would try to keep the holes "standard" if I could though...you may want to replace the motor one day :wink:

trc

Too late -- I got it out of there last night. It's really not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. I'd rather do it right, now, than have to fix it later. It was a mess though. Went through a couple of jigsaw blades and 2 brand new 40 grit flap discs. Everything in the garage is covered in dust... it looks like it snowed in there.
-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:22 am
by cottontop
Matt, you will be glad you followed "CL's" advice. He is quite knowledgeable and I haven't known him to mislead anyone yet. :wink:

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:55 am
by whosmatt
cottontop wrote:Matt, you will be glad you followed "CL's" advice. He is quite knowledgeable and I haven't known him to mislead anyone yet. :wink:

Oh, I have no doubt about that. I wouldn't ask you guys questions if I didn't think I was gonna get good answers. :D

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:34 pm
by whosmatt
Using the long weekend to get some work done. I've finally started fairing the inside... and man, what a chore. Any tips? lots of corners, curved surfaces, etc. I have some System Three SculpWood that I intend to use for cosmetic fillets in a few places, since it makes nice curves. Next boat I build I'm fairing the inside of the hull *before* I start building :P

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:33 pm
by whosmatt
Quick update -- motor is on order, and I'm ordering the trailer this week. Sprayed primer today. Few more spots to fair, then it's time to paint and rig. My birthday is at the end of March, and I fully intend to celebrate it with a launch.

Image

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:03 am
by Bluefish2
Hi Matt,
That is a great job. Very clean. What are the final colors going to be?
BF2

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:04 pm
by whosmatt
Bluefish2 wrote:Hi Matt,
That is a great job. Very clean. What are the final colors going to be?
BF2
I'm doing the hull in Interlux Perfection Fighting Lady Yellow, and the gunwales and interior will be (probably) Brightsides in off-white. Sole will be mostly Kiwigrip. I'm thinking of flattening the Brightsides for the interior and leaving it gloss for the gunwales and console, but that might not be worth the extra effort.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:23 pm
by whosmatt
Got some painting weather and took the day off. Put on my first coat of Perfection. I was hoping to get two on today, but I'm going to have to give this one a light going over with 320 grit before the next. I used a foam brush to tip and am not terribly happy with the results... The next one will be tipped in the lengthwise direction instead of up and down, and with a real brush. Otherwise I think it's great. Gunwales, console, interior will be in Brightsides and the deck in Kiwigrip. Getting it out of the garage next weekend, and then it's off to the dealer to hang the motor... I brought home the controls and gauges to install beforehand so the install should be a quick job. Then off to the DMV and into the water.

Image

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:17 am
by whosmatt
Getting there slowly. One more coat of the Brightsides on the gunwales and rubrails and it's time to pull control cables and install the steering, hardware, etc. Then it's kiwigrip on the sole and pull this sucker out of the garage. I was going to do it this weekend but the weather here in SoCal is turning ugly so I've got another week to work then out she comes! I don't think I've been this impatient since I was a kid watching the clock on Christmas morning.

Image

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:19 am
by whosmatt
Also, I think the name is going to be "Daft Boot." I was thinking "Das Boot" until I saw another boat up in Oceanside with that name. Someone suggested "Pinche Bote" but I figured that might not go over so well with the Mexican Navy. :P

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:29 am
by whosmatt
One more photo: i realized I hadn't posted a pic of the finished hull. I actually put one more coat on the transom and port side after this was taken (because i had sanded out some runs and needed the extra hiding). It's hard to see the gloss here, but trust me, it's shiny.

Image

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:53 am
by chicagoross
Just about ready to go chase some bass in the kelp paddies! Need to change the thread title, you're way past "build getting underway" :D

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:56 am
by chicagoross
That's sure going to be a nice easy boat to haul down Mexico 1, you'll not even notice it behind the truck - I ended up leaving my big boat in Santa Rosalia most of the time to skip the trailering, and (before I started building) got a 15' aluminum for quick hauls down there when the big boat was at home. The FS17 will be perfect if you're a Baja fisherman.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:07 am
by whosmatt
I'm not yet (a Baja fisherman, that is). I actually haven't fished out here at all. I've been here only 2.5 years and have been building this boat for almost 2 of that. I did get a nice sturdy trailer, though, from FE Trailers here in San Diego.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:24 am
by Bluefish2
Hi Matt,
Great job. Nice paint. Only 2 years, even better. Mine has been underway for 3 now. Rod holders are going in though.
Post on the water pics when done.
BF2

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:38 am
by wegcagle
Nice job on the paint Matt. It's really rewarding to get some primer and paint on the boat to see all that fairing pay off 8)

Will

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:37 am
by Cracker Larry
Very nice Matt! I like the yellow 8)

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:35 am
by whosmatt
Thanks for the kind words, guys. I'm sure that everyone else feels this way, but it sure looks a lot better in the photos than it does with an eyeball a few inches away!

Anyway, I've got the basic rigging done, she's ready for the garage extraction and the motor. I'm holding off on the kiwigrip until she's on the trailer and because I'm still not sure what seating I'm going to arrange behind the console... now i'm thinking one of those cooler swingback seats.

The console, sans radio and sonar for now:

Image

And the hatches installed:

Image

I've still got to install the thru hull fittings and the cleats and u-bolts, but that'll go quick. Bowmovement, if you're still around, PM me if you're interested in coming to my BBQ on Saturday. I'm going to take down an 8' section of fence and somehow get this sucker on to the trailer. Pics to follow. Wish me luck!

Also, I know I'm not out of the woods yet, but do I win any kind of award for building a 17' boat in an 18' garage? :lol:

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:52 am
by gstanfield
I think you and Bondo are going to have a run-off to determine the winner of tightest build! It's too close to call :D

Boat looks good BTW 8)

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:51 am
by peter-curacao
8O Wow missed you last update that yellow looks sweet! very cool 8)
whosmatt wrote:The console, sans radio and sonar for now:
And the hatches installed
very nice and clean 8)
whosmatt wrote:Also, I know I'm not out of the woods yet, but do I win any kind of award for building a 17' boat in an 18' garage? :lol:
-M
I feel what you are saying, don't ask me how I know :)

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:04 pm
by Joe H
I like the yellow too, looking good!

Joe H

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:07 pm
by whosmatt
Thanks guys. Re: the yellow... I thought i was being original until I saw Jgroves build. Hell, It's his boat in the picture of the FS17 on the plans page! Same paint and color. :lol:

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:40 am
by whosmatt
Well, huh. Not sure why this didn't occur to me before, but i'm dry fitting (read: no 4200) the cockpit drains and I forgot to account for the angle in the transom. So, my holes are level with the sole and each other, but because of the angle of the transom, the fitting creates a rise in the finished assembly. I guess we'll see how it works. I'm using inline scuppers with valves:

Image

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:50 pm
by whosmatt
She's out of the garage and on the trailer. I'll skip any long story and just post this:

Image

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:34 pm
by chicagoross
Very nice! Looks ready to go! :D

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:43 pm
by wegcagle
Nice work Matt. She's look awesome. Now go get her wet 8)

Will

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:11 pm
by whosmatt
Thanks guys. Nobody who has never built a boat will really know how I feel looking at it from a distance for the first time, but you guys do. The compliments mean a lot. I intend to launch late this week, not sure yet which day. I'll definitely post when that happens.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:37 pm
by peter-curacao
She's a beauty 8)

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:38 pm
by gstanfield
Wow, she looks even better when you can see the whole boat :D

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:59 pm
by Boater45
Great looking boat!! 8) I know you are very proud....I would be!! :D

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:33 pm
by Cracker Larry
That is a dang good looking boat right there :!: Nice work :!: Great design too.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:18 am
by topwater
Cant wait to see this one on the water, very nice :!:

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:53 am
by Uncle D
I too am looking forward to the launch. Beautiful Matt :!: :!:

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:50 am
by Rmarsh
Matt: Your boat looks great. You've done a fantastic job. You must be very excited now. I'm looking forward to seeing her on the water. Enjoy!!!

P.S. I am building a C17 as a center console and have been following your build for a while now.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:18 am
by cottontop
Beautiful boat Matt. You've given yourself one fine "birthday" present. Happy Birthday. John :D

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:42 pm
by whosmatt
Well guys, she's launched. After a bit of freaking out over vibration when I put it into gear (pulled it out of the water, checked the prop, etc) everything went great.

Launched in Mission Bay at Dana Landing after my first two choices of boat ramp were closed for a crew competition. Went through the first two hours of break-in, just putting around and some runs in the inlet up to about 3000 rpm, then came in for a bathroom break, and took her out and opened her up (1 min of full throttle). We were running into a big swell, producing a surf advisory (and a small craft advisory that i was unaware of because my VHF, which i've had for years, died on me), out through the jettys into the Pacific, and managed about 5100 rpm and 29mph. It was quite a ride, though dry and never feeling unsafe. After giving the motor a break for a bit, we did the same thing, except running down swell and managed 31mph on gps.

I'll post more pics and video later, but here's yours truly driving in the 5mph zone:

Image

-Matt

PS: How do I change the thread title?

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:50 pm
by peter-curacao
For a man building and launching his own boat you look kind of sad :cry: or is it me ? still hope you are exited though 8)

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:07 pm
by Cracker Larry
You do look serious, and the boat looks great!
PS: How do I change the thread title?
Go back to the first post on the first page of your thread and click on "Edit". You can change the title there.

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:23 pm
by whosmatt
peter-curacao wrote:For a man building and launching his own boat you look kind of sad :cry: or is it me ? still hope you are exited though 8)
Haha... that's just how I look. People always assume I'm upset. I was just squinting :)

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:49 pm
by gstanfield
AWESOME MATT! I'm stoked to see that you have her in the water :!: :!: :!:

Re: FS17 build getting underway

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:50 pm
by gstanfield
Oh yeah, to edit the title go back to the very first thread and click edit. While there you can change the title in the "subject" box and after saving it should show up with the new title :wink:

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:43 pm
by whosmatt
Here's a shot @ the dock. That's my brother tying off the stern:

Image

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:06 pm
by whosmatt
Went out again today, this time on the "big bay," and I couldn't be more thrilled with the results. The water was relatively rough, running in a small craft warning with high winds and a big mixed swell coming in, and the boat handled it all with aplomb. The only thing I'm a little concerned about is a tendency to ventilate in turns even when not trimmed up very high. The cav plate is level with the bottom of the hull and I'm running the stock 11x13 prop. I was able to get about 5200 rpm out of the motor with a few trim adjustments and about 30mph GPS, which seems just about right. This was with myself and two passengers, so I'm guessing I'm probably on the right track since I will primarily be using this boat solo.

She tracks straight as an arrow, and though I haven't had smooth water to run in, seems like she just sort of gets on plane and sits there, no fuss. Today was also a good test of the drains, as we had quite a bit of spray coming in, and she stayed dry. I worked the trim to keep the nose a bit up at cruise and that allowed any spray just to collect at the motorwell and run out.

Still in the break-in period so I didn't run at more than 4000 rpm for any extended time, but i was able to maintain 20mph and a comfortable attitude at just shy of 4000, which seems like a good cruising speed to me. The wildlife watching was a bonus. We saw plenty of seals today and yesterday, as well as a dolphin. I always enjoy watching the pelicans work as well... those dives still take me by surprise every time.

Here's a shaky-cam video of a full throttle run coming back out of the boat ramp after a piss break:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZbpX5Jd ... e=youtu.be

More updates as I dial her in more, but for now I'm pretty stoked.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:23 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Another awesome!!!! Great job, the second time I said that tonight looking at great work 8) Congratulations on the splash...

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:36 pm
by Prarie Dog
Looks fantastic Matt, great job. What motor did you put on you FS?

Thanks

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:49 pm
by whosmatt
Prarie Dog wrote:Looks fantastic Matt, great job. What motor did you put on you FS?

Thanks

It's the Tohatsu TLDI 50hp. I scored it on a deal; the dealer has an internet business and they listed this motor for about $800 less than anywhere else i could find it. In fact, they listed the 20" shaft 50 for less than any other motor in that range, including the 40, and the 50 15". They're local, so I bought it on their web site and had it delivered to the warehouse. They let me take all the controls home and install those myself. Then, I took it back to them and had them bolt the motor to the transom and install the steering cable and I took it home and did the rest... hooking up the drag link arm, control cables, etc. This dealer is a bit new to the TLDI motors but their service department is incredibly helpful and supportive. It runs like a top so far. I'm still wondering why the motor came with a piece of rope packaged with the extra spark plugs, but whatever. Those plugs did come in handy, as the initial start with the oil pump wide open and idling for 30+ minutes seriously fouled the plugs that were installed from the factory.

IIRC, you have the same motor? or am I thinking of another builder?
-M

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:25 am
by Prarie Dog
Matt, that's the same motor I have and Wadeg has one too. The only thing I've heard to be a problem is a hot hard start problem that only occurs on very hot days. There's supposed to be a recall on the problem and the dealer puts in a check valve or something. Other than that mine's been real good. It's interesting that everybody that has them get's almost identical performance. The FS is about 2 or 3 mph faster than my GF but it's a bigger boat. I rode in Wade's FS17 at the Texas Meet and really liked the boat, it's a real sweet ride that will handle rough conditions well. Your boat should be great, looks really good.

Don't know what to say about the prop on your boat, you might drop the motor one hole and try that or put a tail on it and give that a shot. The tails are oftentimes very effective and cost appx. $60.

Good Job, looks great. :D

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:23 pm
by chicagoross
The rope's your emergency starter! :D There will be a notch on the flywheel for it.

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:19 pm
by Uncle D
chicagoross wrote:The rope's your emergency starter! :D There will be a notch on the flywheel for it.
Practice with the starter rope on land. You won't regret it when you have to do it for real. Trust me, I know. :oops: :wink:

Don

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:23 pm
by whosmatt
I've rope started my fair share of outboards... but the TLDI cannot be rope started, or at least it can't be started without a good battery. So still not sure what it's for. I guess maybe if the starter fails but the battery still has enough juice to power the ECU?? who knows.

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:28 pm
by tech_support
thank you for posting the video. I like the one with the pelican dive bomb. :!:

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:58 pm
by whosmatt
shine wrote:thank you for posting the video. I like the one with the pelican dive bomb. :!:
Me too. Here's the video he's talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euJ8wrh7Eok

So, thanks again to everyone for the help, support, answering questions, making me not feel like a dumb***, etc.

I've still got plenty of work to do on this build.. the biggest being finishing the sole.... right now it's just plain epoxy with lots of primer spray and about 12" of brightsides at all the edges. I think i'm just going to paint it for now, to protect the epoxy from UV. I have kiwigrip ready to go, but I am planning to get a swingback cooler seat and want to install that first. Have to wait a little bit for the funds to replenish, though.. it's amazing how all those last minute trips to West Marine add up... I had to re-buy all my control cables as the originals were just slightly too short. If anyone has a need for a 13' teleflex QCII cable and two 3300 14' control cables, PM me. They've been pulled through the chase tubes but never connected. Otherwise they're going on ebay. I'll chalk my loss up to plain old lack of experience, as this is not only my first build, but my first remote steer boat... my last and only other boat, which is (sadly) sitting in my dad's barn in VA, is a tiller steer skiff. Speaking of which, this might sound ridiculous, but it took me a little while to get used to turning the wheel the way I want to go :oops: I'm so used to pushing the tiller over and having the boat go the other way... even though i've been driving cars for more than 20 years now.

I also have to get a proper electrical system installed.. right now I have the battery connected to the motor and an alligator clip cigarette lighter adapter to charge the portable gps and radio should the need arise, but I've got a proper radio, fishfinder/gps (already have that one), lights, bilge pump, etc to worry about. I went ahead and pulled all the wire I think I'll need when I was pulling the battery cable and motor harnesses, but it's just sitting in the console / bilge for now.

But......... I made my goal. My birthday (#37, for anyone who is counting) was last week, my brother came to visit, and I really needed to launch this thing... especially since I had a helper while he was here... figuring out how to launch solo at wind-blown tidal ramps will be an adventure in itself.

More updates as they come...

-M

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:29 pm
by whosmatt
Fast forward a month or so and I've got all the electrical and electronics installed. I went with one of these fused switch panels: http://www.bepmarine.com/home-mainmenu- ... itch-panel and love it so far.

Bought a Standard Horizon VHF, and installed it along with my Humminbird 768 and ASGR50 GPS receiver. And, last but not least, a bilge pump, for that one time when the bilge, for whatever reason, doesn't stay bone dry (as it has so far).

I've just completed the break-in on the TLDI 50. I'm getting 32-34 mph (about as fast as one might ever wish to go in this boat) at 5600rpm and relatively high trim, and she cruises at 22mph at 4000rpm -- comfortable, and the sweet spot for mileage. Judging by these numbers, anyway: http://www.trailerboats.com/output.cfm?id=2259109. I went out 7 nautical miles today out of San Diego harbor, just to see how she was out in the ocean. The good news: she floats like a cork. The bad news? Well, I got wet. That's ok, though. As long as I'm underway the water just drains right out. At rest (out there) a little comes in through the scuppers with the seas lapping against the transom. I guess my inline valves aren't closing tightly.... they probably have trash in them as I park it beneath a tree that sheds a bit.

I did give her a good pounding today, and there was a little cracking of the finish in a really odd place, where the breasthook / bow deck meets frame A. Not sure what that's about, but I'll figure it out. The pounding might be a red herring, as I didn't really design that area to support weight, but I've found myself climbing over it when launching solo.... might need to beef it up with some braces.. I have one, running fore to the bow, but might need more.

I get multiple comments and compliments every time out. A kayaker stopped me today to chat about her, and I met a nice Aussie at the ramp who was launching his home built (and designed) inflatable catamaran. Everyone I talk to, I talk up the excellent designs and builder and designer support here on the forums.

I'll report more as it happens.

-Matt

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 6:42 pm
by remedy32
I've just completed the break-in on the TLDI 50. I'm getting 32-34 mph (about as fast as one might ever wish to go in this boat) at 5600rpm and relatively high trim, and she cruises at 22mph at 4000rpm -- comfortable, and the sweet spot for mileage.
Nice to hear how happy you seem about the boat. My 25hp version tops out at about 23mph, and the sweet spot is in the 18-20 range. Need a tach to be more accurate but at that speed I'm burning about 2.25 gph so about 8 miles/gal. Can't imagine going 30+ in this boat unless the water is glassy flat! Warmer weather is around the corner here in the Northeast so back on the water soon.

bill

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 7:22 pm
by whosmatt
remedy32 wrote:
I've just completed the break-in on the TLDI 50. I'm getting 32-34 mph (about as fast as one might ever wish to go in this boat) at 5600rpm and relatively high trim, and she cruises at 22mph at 4000rpm -- comfortable, and the sweet spot for mileage.
Nice to hear how happy you seem about the boat. My 25hp version tops out at about 23mph, and the sweet spot is in the 18-20 range. Need a tach to be more accurate but at that speed I'm burning about 2.25 gph so about 8 miles/gal. Can't imagine going 30+ in this boat unless the water is glassy flat! Warmer weather is around the corner here in the Northeast so back on the water soon.

bill
I'm thinking I'm doing about 3gph at cruise but need more testing to verify. 30+ feels very fast for sure, though it'll be nice to know the speed is there if / when I decide to run out to Catalina island from LA. The guys that like to run small Whalers out there swear by following the ferry in in the afternoon when the seas come up (get to ride in a flat spot created by the wake) but need to be able to keep up as the ferries run about 30 from what I hear.

I need to get propped a little better because I'm running in rough water and getting some ventilation even with the motor trimmed in and mounted fairly low. Even on the best days the bay is pretty churned up by boat traffic (and wind in the afternoon).

Ah, seasons. I kind of miss those! I'm looking forward to seeing some updates when you get all thawed out.

-Matt

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 11:05 pm
by whosmatt
Put some kiwigrip on this evening. It's my first time, and it was about like I expected and at the same time not what I expected at all.

If house paint was yogurt.....

Anyway, I notched one of my spreaders to prepare, but ended up applying it with a brush, as the spreader seemed to pile it up too much. Coverage is pretty good for what it is; If you've seen my "cracking" thread you'll know that I ground away some finish to shore up the frames @ the sole. I faired that with quikfair and put a coat of epoxy and then Interlux Primekote over it (crappy stuff IMO, I just used it for extra hiding). I decided to put the Kiwigrip down next and then add the finish coat to my repairs afterwards to avoid the extra work.

I taped and then sanded, and the Primekote is thin, so I got down to the fairing material in those spots. No matter, it's sealed. Kiwigrip goes on nicely and has a nice smell to it. I used to be a house painter, and it brought back memories. It mostly covered the areas where the primer was sanded away, but not quite. I'll probably recoat it but not sure if tomorrow or next month, though tomorrow is probably a better choice.

Here's a couple of pics after removing the tape:

Image

Btw the cooler tie downs are a stop-gap until I figure out my seating situation. I glued down pieces of leftover ply and screwed the tie downs into that so the screws don't penetrate the sole (short screws).

And fore:

Image

I also did an area on either side of the console but the light was fading and my pics didn't come out great.

I'm kind of surprised at how tenacious this stuff is; it was pretty difficult to get off the glass screen of my phone after taking those photos :P

-M

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 11:27 pm
by whosmatt
Oh, also, my dog's name is Kiwi; everyone who knows her gets a chuckle out of the fact that the material is called Kiwigrip. I'm sure she'll appreciate it, though she's not going out with me until I get her a doggy life preserver... she swims as well as any dog, but I need the handle to get her back into the boat :D

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:52 am
by whosmatt
12 hours later and the kiwigrip in the boat is still wet enough that i can smear it with my fingertip. grrrrrrrr. The stuff on the tape that I removed and threw on the ground is dry, though. I guess it must be the tarp that I put over the boat to keep trash out... trapping the evaporating moisture and keeping the humidity very high? No dew overnight, so not sure what else it could be. The tarp is taut but not by any means airtight. Hopefully the sun will come out today, though we're at that time of year here where we can go a week without seeing it by the coast.

I'd remove the tarp but then trash would get in the material. :help:

EDIT: Also I'm at work so I can't really do anything about it right now anyhow. Just venting.

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:58 am
by Steven
Hmm. Whats the temp? It cures to a dry touch pretty quickly and then continues to cure for a week or two to final hardness.

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:08 am
by whosmatt
Steven wrote:Hmm. Whats the temp? It cures to a dry touch pretty quickly and then continues to cure for a week or two to final hardness.
It was upper 60s maybe 70 when I put it on and maybe down to mid 50s overnight, perhaps warmer... 80% relative humidity when I went to bed at 11.
The material that's not inside the boat dried just fine. Maybe it's the saltwater I used to wash down the deck? :lol:

Sorry, just found it amusing that the Kiwigrip instructions specify FRESH water for cleanup.

EDIT:

Here's last night's data from a weather station just half a mile or so from me:

Image

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:47 pm
by whosmatt
Just got home and checked and it dried nicely during the day. Did get some trash in it though, and the trash caused staining and what looks like bleed through. I'll recoat it, but probably wait until later in the season when the weather is warmer and dryer and I can move the boat to somewhere that is free of trees and the the trash that they produce.

On another note, I picked up a Turning Point Hustler prop for next to nothing; got it on Amazon w/ my Prime membership for less than $70 w/ overnight shipping. Found the hub locally and because I have some store credit, that won't cost me a dime out of pocket. I'm still planning on getting a good SS, but I took another look at my finances and It'll have to wait. I've seen good reviews of the Hustler over stock aluminum props (found out today that my stock prop is a Solas) and even if it doesn't solve my ventilation issues it will probably be an improvement... and more importantly I'll have a backup.

Hopefully the State of CA will step up and refund the $ they took from me by double charging me use tax on some items (notably, the motor) when I registered the boat... That'll buy me a NICE SS prop :P

-M

PS. Please, no treatises on the tax thing; I'm well aware of the shortcomings of the state bureaucracy and there's plenty of, um, *lively* discussion going on down in the Bilge right now :D

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:20 pm
by whosmatt
Shot of the kiwigrip, all dried up.

Image

Those leaves are just what fell in overnight, not what actually got into the material.

Just gotta put some finish coat on my modifications and then i'm going fishing.

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:33 pm
by Cracker Larry
Sure looking good Matt 8)

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 1:58 pm
by peter-curacao
Looking awesome! 8)

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 4:46 pm
by whosmatt
Thanks guys. I'm really looking forward to wetting a line rather than dialing in the boat.. hopefully that day will come soon.. not that dialing her in isn't fun too..

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 5:58 pm
by cape man
Matt,

WOW! Super job and the numbers you posted sound awesome. Knew you could do it!

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 6:39 pm
by whosmatt
chicagoross wrote:The rope's your emergency starter! :D There will be a notch on the flywheel for it.

Just wanted to finally provides some clarity on this burning question. From a Tohatsu Dealer over on another forum:
The rope has nothing to do with starting the engine. As bizarre as it sounds, it's supposed to be tied to the engine and then a hard point on the transom in case the engine falls off As to a TLDI needing a battery, absolutley true. While the engine will start without a battery or one that lacks sufficent CCA's, the ignition system will NOT energize correctly and it will not operate correctly. This holds true for the Mercury and Yamaha models as well. However, the Evinrude DFI models can start and run without a battery.
I guess my dealer missed something in the install :D :lol:

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 7:58 pm
by Cracker Larry
The rope has nothing to do with starting the engine. As bizarre as it sounds, it's supposed to be tied to the engine and then a hard point on the transom in case the engine falls off
That is bizarre. Almost all outboards come with an emergency starting rope. To even think that a little rope would hold on an engine after it sheared off 4 - 1/2" bolts is beyond bizarre :?

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 8:08 pm
by peter-curacao
Cracker Larry wrote:
The rope has nothing to do with starting the engine. As bizarre as it sounds, it's supposed to be tied to the engine and then a hard point on the transom in case the engine falls off
That is bizarre. Almost all outboards come with an emergency starting rope.
Larry I bought, I received, and I stored mine but I don't think mine came with such device :? don't even think I can fire those six (or 8?) diablo's with a rope? :doh:

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:59 pm
by Cracker Larry
Larry I bought, I received, and I stored mine but I don't think mine came with such device :? don't even think I can fire those six (or 8?) diablo's with a rope? :doh:
Maybe not with your 300 hp, not me anyway, but I have hand pulled an old 200 Johnson many times on a bait boat we used to have. My 70 Yamaha came with an emergency starting cord, most small to mid size engines do. If you have one, it will be tucked into a little pocket under the cowling somewhere.

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:10 pm
by gstanfield
I was amazed at how easy it was to hand start my old 85 OMC when the starter died on me way back when. Then again I had a ton of adrenaline going with a thunderstorm rolling in, drifting towards rocks and no anchor to toss out and hold my position.

ahh, it's a wonder any of us survived being teenagers :lol:

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:11 pm
by Prarie Dog
Seems like the 50 TLDI takes about 600 amps to crank. I don't remember the exact number but it's a bunch, when you pull it you have to turn the compressor too. We carry a paddle and a trolling motor. :D

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:38 pm
by whosmatt
Bizarre indeed. Here's what the manual has to say about "rope" : "Tie the clamp bracket to the outboard with a rope."

Other than listing it as a part of the toolkit, that's it. PDFs are easily searchable.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:40 pm
by whosmatt
Prarie Dog wrote:Seems like the 50 TLDI takes about 600 amps to crank. I don't remember the exact number but it's a bunch, when you pull it you have to turn the compressor too. We carry a paddle and a trolling motor. :D
I do have a paddle, but I have a feeling my best friend in a breakdown is going to be Vessel Assist and perhaps a sea anchor. This boat is just too small for a kicker (but I could be proved wrong).

-M

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 11:01 pm
by whosmatt
peter-curacao wrote:Larry I bought, I received, and I stored mine but I don't think mine came with such device :? don't even think I can fire those six (or 8?) diablo's with a rope? :doh:
You have an E-tec, right? There's a video out there of a 90 being rope started, but you'd probably have to have a team of vikings to turn over a 300. I seriously considered the E-tec for that reason, but the price difference was prohibitive for me, plus the 50 E-tec weighs about 30 or 40lbs more than the Tohatsu, though now that I have the boat in the water I think that wouldn't be as much of a problem as I originally thought.

Anyway I put some thought into my battery, so I feel pretty confident. I have a lifeline GPL-2700T AGM. I bought it last summer from Apex Battery when they had a coupon deal and got it for about $200. I checked the price on the same battery now, and it's over $400 from the same dealer. Yikes. I also got a Genius smart charger, and that thing is great... the lifeline sat in my shop from july until march when I installed it in the boat and never lost its charge; I checked frequently. The Genius never took more than a few seconds to report full charge when I hooked it up.

-M

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 1:07 am
by whosmatt
cape man wrote:Matt,

WOW! Super job and the numbers you posted sound awesome. Knew you could do it!
Thanks! I've just started reading through your build thread (only been here 2 years and there's so much to catch up on). I like your sig, BTW. I'm a big fan of his work.

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 7:49 am
by topwater
Thats one of the nice things about AGM batteries, very low discharge rate when sitting around.
Good for guys that dont use there boat every week 8)

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 8:55 pm
by whosmatt
Well the Turning Point prop was a smashing success. It has changed the character of the boat, and fixed my ventilation issues.

Regarding the changed character, the boat now has a much different launch. Before, it was really hard to tell when the boat came on plane because it didn't really seem to climb out of a hole, just progressively went faster (as I've heard one other builder of the FS17 remark as well). Now at low speed it has a very nose high attitude and then it comes on plane and the nose drops, like you'd expect. Once on plane I can throttle back a bit and stay there but it seems like it will fall off sooner than with the old prop.

Cruise speed at a given RPM is higher. Bite is great, so good, in fact, that I was able to trim far enough out at WOT to bump the rev limiter and (I suspect) limit the water intake and cause an overheat condition. Unfortunately the wind in my ears kept me from hearing the alarm and the bright sun made the flashing light not so easy to see, so the motor "saved" itself by dropping to idle. With the throttle (and therefore the oil pump) fully advanced, that made it smoke a lot for a minute or two, and was really rather perturbing.

I didn't get a good look at the speedo when I was running it at the edge of the RPM range, but at "normal" WOT can reach the same RPM and speed as I was getting before, though I have to trim out a little farther to get there. Oddly, every time I checked the motor looked like it was peeing ok, so not sure why the overheat; must have happened really quickly.

The factory service manual + the diagnostic mode of this motor is great. I was thinking of buying an hour meter but I can just put it in diagnostic mode and it will tell me by indicating using the tachometer and the lights what range i'm in. It also stored the overheat code :P

Anyway, the alarm went away instantly once the motor throttled down and I was able to resume normal running and ran the rest of the day without problems, other than that it was BUSY out there. You really gotta keep an eye out. I saw the DHS / CBP boat I posted a pic of down in the bilge, that thing is a beast when it's running. I think they say it can run 55 knots (EDIT: it *cruises* at 55 knots, top speed is 65. That's 75 MPH, y'all), and it's big enough to do it in some pretty rough water.

Oh, and regarding Prairie Dog's comment on the "pos Etec" I heard a radio call (and then saw the tow) of a new 20' Panga Super Skiff with a 90 Etec that stalled and wouldn't restart. They were in the middle of the channel and were frantically trying to direct sailboats around them.

Oh, and the extra glass seems to have fixed the stress cracking.

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 12:35 am
by chicagoross
Biggest I've pull started was my 1996 Johnson 115 two stroke. My Merc 40 in the garage is a manual start, as were several commercial manual start 55 mercs down in Mexico, all started about as easy as any 2 stroke, never any problems. Don't want to pull start pull start Peter's 300... 8O

Still mad at ETEC for shutting down out better marine store here on Guam. They sold the ETECs and the Suzukis,, then went broke after spending two years selling Suzukis at cost to all those that had paid normal price for ETECs that failed...

Re: FS17 build getting.... SPLASHED!

Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 4:54 am
by whosmatt
chicagoross wrote: Still mad at ETEC for shutting down out better marine store here on Guam. They sold the ETECs and the Suzukis,, then went broke after spending two years selling Suzukis at cost to all those that had paid normal price for ETECs that failed...
I wasn't going to inject this into this thread, and I've not owned an Etec so this is second hand, but there's a blog from a local (to me) guy that repowered his skiff with an Etec, and while he doesn't badmouth it so much, it seems like it was in the shop a LOT. Site hasn't been updated in a while but I found it while looking for advice for folks who take small boats offshore. http://www.oceanskiffjournal.com/index. ... /body/C159