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Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:58 pm
by chicagoross
Built the jig, added legs and flipped it over for a table. Need to cut and splice all hull panels first, as there is no other flat space to work in (the carport floor is frequently covered with water - no problem, wear flipflops). I've been through the plans several times, modifing building procedures to fit my (lack of proper) building facility... :D So another Guam build starts: poor building facility, absence of local supplies, poor and expensive shipping, consistently hot, wet, and buggy weather. :D The funny part is I do this for my sanity! For an hour or two a day, I can focus on problems that are solvable and progress that is visible!

Guam boat ride, beer, and Mahi for the first to identify the boat from the hull panel shape :doh: !
Image

Re: New Guam Build

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:24 pm
by Larry B
Always like to watch your builds. I'll go out on a limb here and say: Edit: LB22

Re: New Guam Build

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:35 pm
by gstanfield
Mini Maia 21 would be my guess 8)

Re: New Guam Build

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:44 pm
by Prarie Dog
Ross, think it's the HM19. :doh:

Re: New Guam Build

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:14 am
by chicagoross
Good eye, George! Beer and Mahi next time you're in Guam! :D

Re: New Guam Build

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:16 am
by gstanfield
Sounds like a plan, now I gotta go see what a plane ticket to Guam will cost me :D

EDIT: At over $2k a ticket I guess I'll just have to pass on that deal, but go ahead and have an extra one for me on your next outing 8)

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:38 pm
by chicagoross
If you're still in Wyoming next February, that $2000 will sound pretty reasonable. :D You can't be somewhere better than Wyoming summer or fall, though!

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:54 pm
by chicagoross
I have been slowly going crazy the last year, looking for the perfect plan and itching to start building. As many of you know, this can become more of a need than a hobby. The Novi was one of the first boats I fell in love with at first look, but family had morphed that into the DE23. I'd actually been waffling between that and Devlin's Dunlin for quite a while.

What we know for sure at this point: Must be towed by a tacoma. Wife and kids are NOT giving up the comfort of cabin and pilothouse - in fact, what they really want is a camper boat, or houseboat - but that doesn't work too well in the middle of the pacific. Guam is usually either raining on you or hot and sunny, often shifting every hour or so. We all like cruising, snorkeling, and trolling. Dad needs to start building. I guess there's some TV character that keeps building boats he'll never use - I can understand that.

Recently my wife decided to open a small restaurant. I have come to realize that a new tandom 22' trailer and say a 60 hp motor are not in my near future; displacement speeds will be. I do have all new running gear on my HMD18 that is now about 3 years old. So what can I do with what I have?

My HMD was a rather quick build, workboat finish. I'm hoping here for a little more comfort, more detail (sliding windows/door, boarding ladder for snorkeling etc.), maybe even weekend camping. I can take as much time as I want, as we can use the HMD anytime we want to go out and my main goal here is enjoying the process.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:57 pm
by gstanfield
It'll be really cool to see one of these come together, I can't wait!

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:37 pm
by Daddy
And here I was hoping for another Nina... :( Oh well, I'll be watching with interest. :D
Daddy

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:25 am
by chicagoross
Daddy, If I was building just for my own use the Nina would be it! I'd love to try it out in my sea conditions, see if it will really keep going when the others slow down. Just not the load carrier and creature comforts the family demands! Also a very scary build - I watch those builds, and it seems it takes years and years to build a Nina! :D

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:49 am
by topwater
Ross i have been waiting for somebody to build one of these. This is going to be a cool build and a lot of
fun to watch :!:

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:36 am
by Daddy
chicagoross wrote:Daddy, If I was building just for my own use the Nina would be it! I'd love to try it out in my sea conditions, see if it will really keep going when the others slow down. Just not the load carrier and creature comforts the family demands! Also a very scary build - I watch those builds, and it seems it takes years and years to build a Nina! :D
It does seem to take a lot of time,at least for me, still plugging along but looking at days now rather than months (I hope) :oops:I remember that you were interested in Nina so I was hoping :D Actually my wife says she will not let me sell FESTIVUS my GT23 because of the reasons you are building the MM. She likes all of that room.
Daddy

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:08 pm
by JohnC
Hey Chicago,
Don't worry about the building space, you will make work. Just remember, Jethro built his in his basement and somehow managed to get it out of there. Must have been on of those mystical magical Hollywierd moments... :doh: Good luck with the build, we'll be watching.
John

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:59 pm
by chicagoross
Well, slow progress tha last week, just a few hours a day and missed at least a couple days completely. That's the rule I don't like to break - you only need to work on it an hour or two, but I hate missing a day completely - too easy to lose momentum! (With all the aches and pains this old body has accumulated, you tend to rely on momentum to keep things going; you may lose torque and horsepower as you get older, but fortunately the flywheel keeps getting bigger and heavier...)

But a little progress none-the-less: Bottom hull panels were splced and butt-joined together and stacked aside to clear the building table. That used the last ounce of epoxy left over from 3 years ago (BTW MarinEpoxy worked just fine after three years storage) and the last of the leftover biax tape. The side hull panels are waiting for more epoxy and fiberglass tape, both on order.

So I started laying out and cutting the frames. Because of the raised deck cruiser configuration, they seem huge:
Image
Then I set up the first 3D preview, and a big part of the attraction of this unique design:
Image
Now back to work!

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:31 pm
by Larry B
Looking good Ross, Your getting right after it. Keep up the pictures and updates.
How long do you have to wait to get the epoxy to Guam?

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:49 pm
by gstanfield
Looking good Ross, can't wait to see this one come together. :D

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:07 am
by Prarie Dog
Looks good Ross, what ply is that, looks like Meranti?

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:58 am
by chicagoross
Philipine mahogany exterior. Even plies, no voids, and both sides are basically "A" grade, no footballs, passes a boil test. Not what you get at Home Depot stateside. Since noone imports marine ply to Guam, that is the first of many decisions and changes that I needed to make to build this boat here. I also used it on my HMD which has been used 3 years now with no problems.

The nex issue to solve was I don't have space for the basket mold suggested in the plans; the hull will fit (barely) but not the exterior basket mold,so this build will be upside down on a jig. Most of the frames are "skeleton", meaning three inches around the edges - that won't due for building on a Jig, so I am cutting them all full size (I've draw the "cut-aways" on them for after the flip, but need the full sheet first to support the boat until it's glassed). Along with this new requirement, most of the nesting diagrams go out the window. :D

I had rejected this boat earlier (it's really too big for my building conditions) but after a bit of thought I figured it all out - a lot of changes to the build sequence, but the boat itself will be "to spec".

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:32 am
by chicagoross
BTW, if you're wondering why "philipine mahogany" looks like "Meranti":

HelpHome > Materials Guide > Lumber & Plywood > Wood Species 2
Meranti
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Pages in this Story:• Meranti• Wood identification• Uses in woodworking• AvailabiIity• Machining methods• Carving cautions• Turning tips• Shop-Tested TechniquesMeranti

Meranti

Frequently called Philippine mahogany
, this wood isn't mahogany at all Identifying, classifying, and naming native American hardwoods becomes child's play compared to the complexity involving what many of us refer to as Philippine mahogany. You see, in the world timber trade, the wood of many species with similar characteristics can sometimes be lumped together and sold under one name. That's the story behind Philippine mahogany. The Philippine Islands, as well as Malaysia, Indonesia, and Southeast Asia, produce a great variety of hardwoods. But the most volume comes from a group of tree species known commercially as Philippine mahogany, due to the appearance of their lumber and the fact that the word mahogany is widely recognized. However, none of these species belong to the family Meliaceae that includes the New World mahoganies of the Swietenia genus, such as Honduras mahogany. Generally, the trees that supply the timber for Philippine mahogany lumber and plywood belong to the huge plant family called Dipterocarpaceae. And in that family, the Shorea species has five distinct, commercially important trees named meranti.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:10 am
by Dougster
This will be fun for me to follow, as I have a real affinity for the design. The Nina is taking years for me to complete, but that's me (no prior experience and too prone to pondering 'stead of doing). Remember, Spokaloo completed her in a year! Anyway, it's great watching you do the MM.

Got his popcorn and soda Dougster

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:50 pm
by chicagoross
Gonna be a lot of popcorn! Got 5 of the 6 frames cut. I've never built a stitch and glue with a beam over 8' before - kind of a pain as serall of the frames hang over the edge of a 8' sheet of ply - harder to lay out when you need an extra 3 inches. With the hull panels, no problem, but you hate cuting 2-3" into another sheet of ply... :D

The neighbor across the street and the mailman have taken notice and volunteered services for lifting panels and flipping. :D That's what happens when you don't hide your build inside one of those nice spacious climate controlled boat shops! :D

After this last frame, time to go get 6 sheets of 1/4" ply for the hull uppers; kind of scary, I've never used 1/4" for hull panels before, except on the D4 - this is a tad bigger...

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:49 pm
by JohnC
Hey Chicago,
Glad to see you have a local "flip crew". We could probably get the Central Texas "flip crew" together (including the "enforcer") but the travel reimbursement would probably blow your budget! 8O As for climate controlled boat shops, it has been running 102 here in the daytime.
John

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:02 pm
by FloatingTurtle
Hello ChicagoRoss !

The MM21 is the boat design that drew me to bateau.com. I have dreamed for a long time for somebody to start building one. Now this dream has come true! I even purchased the plans to day dream about it. I have seen other tug-like designs but to me, this one is the most elegant and balanced of all of them.

I have been wondering about building one in my garage, which is 11.5' wide by ~ 26' long. I guess a movable craddle (like Bondo's for his AD14) would make it doable. Until the superstructure has to be installed that is. I intend to build a small cardboard version soon, just to see how it looks for real.

Will I build the CK17 first as I intended? That might depend on the pictures I hope you will continue posting :wink: Best of luck for your build; I will be another hungry (and I hope not too impatient) follower. :D

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:32 am
by chicagoross
11.5 x 26 sounds spacious! I've got 10x20 flat floor, covered but open all sides to the weather. The superstructure won't fit at my spot, either; One of my modifications was to cut frames horizontally (up to the sheer line) rather than vertically like shown in the plans; the pilothouse sides and framework will have to wait until the interior's finished and the boat's ready to go out on the trailer. Besides, the plan to build rightside up on a cradle (no room for the cradle) won't work. so building upside down on a jig. The build process should be easier than described. I mean really, who could flip a boat with 3+ feet of skeletal pilothouse frames sticking up above the sheerline :doh: , not once, but twice 8O without breaking those 3" x 3/8" protrusions off?

I'm also going to skin the round transom a little different than the plans list, don't have the room for 25' panels and think it would be a nightmare trying to bring them together at the stern. We'll see how my plan works out! :D

Finished the last frame today, picked up eopxy order, waiting for tape and fabric from Bateau. Need to get 1/4" ply for the upper hull panels, then it'll be time to start setting up the jig in about a week or so!

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:09 am
by chicagoross
Finished drawing and cutting all hull panel and bulwarks pieces. My "kit" is finished, put away the jigsaw. The last boat was cut with an old craftsman jigsaw; after I finished the hull on that boat, SWMBO gave me a top=line Bosch for Christmas, what a pleasure to use! That right there was justification for building another boat! :D The 1/4" ply seems like it should be able to make the bends for the round transom without kerfing, good news.

Now just waiting for the postman to bring my biax tape. If I had a 30 x 30 concrete floor that didn't flood in the monsoons, I could splice all those hull panels in two days. Since my carport floods, though. got to splce them on the table one panel at a time, probably 10 days...

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:29 pm
by FloatingTurtle
How do you intend to install the hull sides? Can you move your strong back in and out of your car port? If you have room outside, wouldn't it be possible to stitch the 2 side panels together at the stern (rear, right?) and them gently wrap them around the hull bottoms toward the bow, stitching as you go? That method would require 50' of space :) to accomplish though...

I agree with you about the building method (basket mould). I would also be affraid to break the frames once upside down and the hull would have to be supported and would end up quite high in the air to work on. Since you are going with the jig method (inverted), would it be possible to make "fake" frames with cheap wood to shape the hull and then eplace them with the real full height frames once flipped?

Have you given any thoughts yet as to how you are going to set up the inside of the boat? I have also wondered if it would look good to have a few tires hanging on the sides :wink:

Keep the pictures coming, please !!! :D

Regards.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:25 pm
by chicagoross
If you have room outside, wouldn't it be possible to stitch the 2 side panels together at the stern (rear, right?) and them gently wrap them around the hull bottoms toward the bow, stitching as you go? That method would require 50' of space to accomplish though...
How many people would be required to lift and support and wrap a 50' long 1/4" panel without breaking it? :help: I am planning on two side panels (16' each) and the transom panel (18' long), I think I can handle those, and I also think it should be easier to make splices between frame D and E (relatively flat) than at the transom with the hard curve. That's the plan, wait a week or two and we'll see how it works out :D

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:59 pm
by FloatingTurtle
Ingenious :idea: I would not have thought of making the splices on the side panels once stitched.

I imagine that whatever method is used for the round "transom", there will be some tension on the splice joining the 2 rear panels. Any special precaution to prevent this seam from bending /cracking or do you think it will be strong enough and will gently wrap around the circular tank / motor horizontal frames?

Wish I could help :)

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:40 pm
by Daddy
chicagoross wrote:
If you have room outside, wouldn't it be possible to stitch the 2 side panels together at the stern (rear, right?) and them gently wrap them around the hull bottoms toward the bow, stitching as you go? That method would require 50' of space to accomplish though...
How many people would be required to lift and support and wrap a 50' long 1/4" panel without breaking it? :help: I am planning on two side panels (16' each) and the transom panel (18' long), I think I can handle those, and I also think it should be easier to make splices between frame D and E (relatively flat) than at the transom with the hard curve. That's the plan, wait a week or two and we'll see how it works out :D
Sounds like a clever plan Ross. I imagine you will come up with an inventive way to make that splice, I am picturing how I would do it. Curious to see if we are on the same page.
Daddy

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:01 am
by chicagoross
The ply seems like it will take the curve if you're gentle. The splice will be a layer of 12 oz biax tape on each side, which should be stronger than the ply itself. What can I say, it will either be a very tense yet triumphant day, or it will be back to the pondering/moaning/crying chair. That's boatbuilding, and you just keep telling yourself there's no problem that can't be fixed... :D

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:29 pm
by D2Maine
nm

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:02 pm
by chicagoross
I'm using Meranti (Lauan, Philiping Mahogany) which is stiffer than Okume but flexier than fir. Without having the forms up on the jig yet (the bottom hull panels and the motor-deck top will be the forms for the round transom), it seems like the ply should make the bends without kerfing. Since I have ten days of splicing to do before I can start setting up a jig (and the biax tape still hasn't arrived yet), it will be a few weeks before we can find out, depending on how long it takes me to get the jig set up level. There are no stringers on these displacement boats, so leveling and squaring each of six frames using only string, measure, and level takes a while... :D ). One thing all of the plans seem to say, I've tried it and it works, if you can't bend the panels all the way together, bend them as far as you can and walk away for a day. The next day you can bend them further. So, Plan B (which I'm already on!) is no kerfing...kerfing will be plan C I guess...

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:47 pm
by D2Maine
nm

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:47 am
by Big Red Express
I have been waiting for someone to build the Mini Maia since I have the plans, but have several other projects that I am trying to stay focused on prior to that endeavor. Your build is quite awesome and I will continue to admire from afar. Cheers

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:13 pm
by chicagoross
I've been looking at my pile of pieces waiting to be spliced together, waiting for oveer 3 weeks for my biax tape to be delivered. Feel like I'm going through withdrawal... :( Started stitching les critical areas yesterday using the roll of 6 oz woven that I had laying around, couldn't stand it any longer! It'll all be covered with biax fabric anyway, right? :doh:

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 5:12 pm
by Cracker Larry
Maybe put on 2 layers and run the weave 45% to each other? Sometimes you just have to make do :lol:

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:53 pm
by FloatingTurtle
I wanted to see in real size what a MM21 would look like. So I drew one on my driveway from the plans. I can't decide if it is big or small...

Image

Image
From this picture it looks like it's too large for my garage door but it's a perspective trick as there are 6 inches of clearance (3 on each side, that is). But it would be a tight fit.

How's your build going ross?

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:26 am
by chicagoross
Computer was down, so building coming along nicely - updates soon, got to go to photobucket first.

MM21 is 8'3" wide, you must have a wider than usual garage door. Anyhow, it sure is looking big in my carport! :D

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:52 am
by chicagoross
OK, last Saturday (after a month) my biax finally arrived. Finished splicing all the long panels. Then I cleaned off the long table I built to make the panels (out of the monsoon floods that wash through the carport a few times a day this time of year):
Image
and flipped it over. Fasten uprights to it and start setting up the frames. I never set a goal of "set up the jig today", I only set baby-step goals like "set up frame A":
Image
But that went pretty smooth, so I decided to set up Frame B before I forgot how:
Image

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:01 am
by chicagoross
Two days of baby-steps and all six frames, plus my round-transom mold were up:
Image
Like I said, I only promise myself a baby step a day. I pretty much only disapoint myself on those rare days that I can' at least spend an hour and accomplish a baby step. As you get older, you appreciate how important momentum is :D So the next baby step was to throw the bottom panels up on top of the jig:
Image
Went well and only took a few minutes, so I stitched them loosely, aclled my wife back, and we hung the side panels:
Image
Went inside, had some ice tea, and asked Rose to help me with the transom panel. 18' long, wobbly as hell, scared to death that we'd crack it. Scared to death of nearly folding it in half to fit it down the 10" of clearance on each side of the build. But no problems:
Image

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:12 am
by chicagoross
Today I spliced the transom panel to the side panels, in place, worked like a charm. Then I needed to rehang the side panels about 3/4" further forward, to make the panels lay better, and relieve the last 18" of the bottom panels joint with a saw, to make the transom panels fit better (this will all be cut out and thrown away when we cut the motorwell but I'm happier with the panels fitting better). Still are areas I'm not thrilled with the fit on, but keep working them out. You make a change, it fits better or it doesn't.

The bad news is I think I'm going to have to filet inside the hull (over my head) before I can tape the outside chines and keel joints, didn't have to on the HMD but only have 1/4" PLY on the sides here, don't think I can trust spot welds between the joints when I go to sand a nice radius on 1/4 ply, think I'm going to need to filet inside.

So building on a jiog, no problem so far, and joining the hull side panels on the sides of the boat, instead of center of the transom, seemed to work well - trying to join them at the transom while they tried to form a "V" would have been rough, but joining on the sides which are relatively flat was pretty easy.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:40 am
by topwater
Nice work Ross :!: This will be fun watching this one come togeather.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:46 am
by Daddy
Nice work Ross, great decision on the transom joint, very clever. Nice to have the extra pair of hands when you need them too.
Daddy

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:54 pm
by FloatingTurtle
Nice going! Every picture is a delight to see :D What are your first impressions about the size of the hull?
chicagoross wrote:The bad news is I think I'm going to have to filet inside the hull (over my head) before I can tape the outside chines and keel joints, didn't have to on the HMD but only have 1/4" PLY on the sides here, don't think I can trust spot welds between the joints when I go to sand a nice radius on 1/4 ply, think I'm going to need to filet inside.
I see that the seam between the bottom panels and the rear panels are "inside" the transom mould - how do you intend to fillet this seam?
chicagoross wrote:So building on a jiog, no problem so far, and joining the hull side panels on the sides of the boat, instead of center of the transom, seemed to work well - trying to join them at the transom while they tried to form a "V" would have been rough, but joining on the sides which are relatively flat was pretty easy.
With your newly acquired experience, if you had to do it again, would you still go the jig way or would you try the basket mould but with just "half" frames? Some side panels being quite high, I don't think that the filleting inside would be more accessible.

Keep going, keep going! And many thanks for sharing :D

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:55 pm
by Dougster
Fantastic! I am amazed at how strong that fiberglass splice is. I might have needed more than ice tea to bend that thing in half :lol: The forces must be pretty strong on the panels. The Nina has 1/4" side and bottom panels too and I only spot welded. I don't remember having any problems with 'em when I cut the zip ties and sanded the radius before taping, though it was a sigh of relief when I got the tape on.

Says good on you Dougster

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:59 pm
by Cracker Larry
Dang 8O I'm impressed as much with the amount of bend, as with the set of twins that it took to try it 8) Sweet!

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:15 pm
by Larry B
Looking Good Ross, Man I don't know how you build in that heat with humidity????

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:15 am
by chicagoross
I see that the seam between the bottom panels and the rear panels are "inside" the transom mould - how do you intend to fillet this seam?
-- The seat will drop out if I lossen about 6-8 drywall screws.
if you had to do it again, would you still go the jig way
-- 4 more inches on either side and even the skinny folks won't be able to get to the front door til the build's over.
Some side panels being quite high, I don't think that the filleting inside would be more accessible.
-- those side panels are 4' wide. Building in a cradle, you'd have to be inside to get to them, unless your arms are a whole lot longer than mine. Walking around the inside before it's stitched would be scary! :help:
What are your first impressions about the size of the hull?
-- All boats are too big during the build and when trailering; then too small when on the ocean. This is as big as I can physically make at home, and as big as I consider "trailerable" unless you have a 1 ton dually. This one's still no problem for my Tacoma. Except for trailering, I'd love to build a Maia 24". But the mini does have a few more creature comforts over the HMD that the family approve of.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:28 am
by chicagoross
it was a sigh of relief when I got the tape on. Says good on you Dougster
-- Thanks, Dougster, I'm looking forward to that point too. The good news is I found the problem with the panel alignment, the bad news is I have to snake frame A out from underneath and modify it. Having found the problem, and ground off the ends of the splice tapes, I can say I "worked" on the boat today and leave that chore for tomorrow.

CL - yeah, bending that panel had me holding my breath in anticipation, waiting for that sickening crack 8O . Just trying to handle a 2' x 18' quarter inch ply panel, it feels like it wants to break if you even look at it hard. Worked without a hitch though! :D
I don't know how you build in that heat with humidity????
-- Seriously? 3 - 6 ounces at a time! Even with slow hardener, any more than that and the epoxy cup melts through! Guam starts every day at about 75 degrees and works up to 85 - 89 in a few hours, rarely over 90. RH is usually about 80 - 85%. Rains every day, the rain, like the ocean, is 84 degrees - rain gear is flip flops and a ball cap to keep the drops off my glasses. Got to do lots of little cups of epoxy, but beats the hell out of plugging your car in to an extension cord to keep the block from freezin at night! I was born and raised in Chicago. There's a reason I now live on a tropical island! :D

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:57 am
by chicagoross
Today I unstitched the front half of the boat (again), crawled underneath and disassembled frame A, snaked it out, made it right, and then reassembled all. Now all panels fit right.

Builders, please note that it is much easier to make the frames right and set them up BEFORE you have the boat stitched together on top of them :D :D :D

Note to any MM21 builders: Three of the frames show concave sides (about a half inch concave). My hull panels all are touching at top and bottom of frame, but a straight line cut would have had them touching the entire length; no concavity developed at all.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:19 am
by captsomer
Nice job so far! I currently am working on the MM21 as well. I'm about half way through the lofting process so far. Work keeps getting in the way though so this has been an on again - off again project for me. I'm also trying to build it out of aluminum sheet. I had a stack laying around and decided to give it a shot. It should be interesting. I'll keep you posted when the sparks start flying.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:40 am
by Daddy
captsomer wrote:Nice job so far! I currently am working on the MM21 as well. I'm about half way through the lofting process so far. Work keeps getting in the way though so this has been an on again - off again project for me. I'm also trying to build it out of aluminum sheet. I had a stack laying around and decided to give it a shot. It should be interesting. I'll keep you posted when the sparks start flying.
Pictures, pictures!!
Daddy

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:04 pm
by JohnC
Hey Chicago,
Looks great so far (like we would expect anything less 8) . And you certainly make me feel better about building bigger boats in smaller spaces! :D I did notice the HMD18 sitting on what looks like your front sidewalk, I'm not sure my SWMBO is ready for that 8O . In the meantime, I'll work on finding something to add to Dougster's "ice tea". :wink:
John

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:34 pm
by chicagoross
To get to the front door, you either walk through the yard around the HMD or through the carport around the MM21. No problem. :D

Still working on getting the hull panels glued together. Stitch number 4 used dowels inside the stitches, and was the best so far. It really helped getting the 1/4" sides lined up better with the 3/8" bottom panels, before the dowles the two different thickeness wanted to argue about who was on top.

Since I can't get into the forward most compartment, my 7 year old daughter is helping by crawling under and placing dowels while we stitch. :D

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:35 pm
by davidtx
Looking good CR!

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:35 pm
by chicagoross
The bow is spot welded into place. I've been working on the round transom for a couple hours a day this last 4-5 days. While I had no problem bending the panels and then splicing them together, it's been a real challenge getting them to lay in the right positions at the transom. I had a 2 1/2" gap on one side, where the panel was floating off of frames E and F. This resulted from the side panel not kissing the bottom panel on the inside edges of the ply - the 1/4" side panel wanted to slide inside or outside of the 3/8" bottom panel. I now have stitches every 4" around the round transom, with dowels inside. This has reduced the 2 1/2" to about 1/2". The last thing I need to do is but a brace inside the transom, right at the centerline. to push the transom back 1/4" or 3/8" where the flat splice on the panel didn't want to bend that much, hopefully that will remove the last bit of frame gap. I could have saved some time here if I'd used the dowels on my first stitching instead of the third. :D The HMD wasn't this picky, but this round transom needs some tender and patient nudging...

The panel shapes are right, but they need to be joined just perfect for the hull skin to lay flat on the frames. The next guy to build this boat will have a bit less trial and error, hopefully! (and don't cut those concave sides on those 3 frames that show it - a flat line would have let the frame kiss the hull panel for the entire length, I'll have some filling to do)

Bit by bit, or in this case inch by inch...

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:20 pm
by Daddy
Great persistence Ross!
Daddy

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:36 am
by chicagoross
Got down to all frames "kissing" the hull panels except for a 1/4" gap on one side of frame E. Couldn't figure out any more wedging or shifting that would get it any closer, so spot welded all hull sides-to-bottom joints. It looks round to me! :D

Anyone got any thoughts about whether it's better to try to fit the bulwarks while the hull's upside down, or just fit the rubrails before the flip and then fit the 1/4" ply bulwarks when the hull's sitting right side up... :doh: No hurry, still a lot of glassing to do first....

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:41 pm
by FloatingTurtle
Maybe fewer risks of damaging the (probably fragile) bulwarks once the hull is flipped? And you would have better access on both sides (inside / outside). And you would not have to fight gravity.

On the other hand, maybe having the bulwarks hang from the transom with stitches will facilitate its forming? But then glueing upside down might not be that easy...

I think I would wait after the flip (this coming from somebody who never built a boat larger than a PK78 :doh: ).

Pictures, pictures !!! 8)

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:01 pm
by wegcagle
I would wait until the hull is flipped. That's just because I've only done it that way, and only once so far :D . It's the way I was told to do it, so I never thought to ask :doh: I'll be watching closely either way. Great build

Will

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:43 am
by chicagoross
1. Lay out and cut plywood - check.
2. Build jig and mount frames - check.
3. Assemble hull panels to jig with zip ties; adjust. - check.
4. Spotweld hull panels, remove zip ties, filet, round edges, and tape. - check.

4 down out of 200 steps - I figure I'm 2% there!
Image
Image

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:38 am
by topwater
Looking good Ross , love that round transom 8)

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:24 pm
by Daddy
More than 2% Ross, you got started, that counts for at least 10% all by itself
Daddy

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:59 pm
by FloatingTurtle
There are many ways to measure progress in project management. One of them (I like it very much) is quite simple:
- nothing done = 0 %
- started = 50 %
- done = 100 %
So using this methodm, you are halfway there :)

Any particular difficulties in doing the fillets / taping ?

I am currently building a 1/5.4 scale version of this boat in cardboard. Already have a few frames in ;-) I'll post pictures sometimes.

Thanks for sharing the pictures.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:37 am
by chicagoross
Only problem so far, other than it's a wide boat and hard to reach the keel to work on, was getting the hull side panel (almost 50' long) adjusted to the bottom panels. Knotty Bouey's thread show pics of what I was dealing with - the bottom panel wants to overlap the side panel, then a foot further on the side panel wants to overlap the bottom panel. All solved with multiple stitchings and the use of dowels to space the panels.

I was slow to get started, and that's covered, but this isn't my first - I KNOW I ain't 50%! :D Sanding's about 75% amd I haven't even started fairing! :D

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:02 am
by gstanfield
She's looking good so far Ross. Is there anyway you can back up and get a picture of the whole hull as she sits?

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:01 am
by Daddy
gstanfield wrote:She's looking good so far Ross. Is there anyway you can back up and get a picture of the whole hull as she sits?
That is the problem when building in a confined space. When I finally got BUNKY out of the shop it almost took my breath away to see how pretty she was. The downside was an unfair curve in the rub rail that could not be detected until you could stand back and get some perspective. Now that it is in the water I don't see it at all. :D We should all have shops that measure about 32 by 48 at minimum. :help:
Daddy

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:24 pm
by chicagoross
Can do! Unfortunately the only pic I can back up and get is the transom! :D Daddy, I agree! A few years back, we looked at houses around Lauglin. They all had generous 2 car garages plus a third garage like a firestation, 12' wide. 12' door, and double-deep 35 - 40', since everyone has RVs there. Perfect! My wife was admiring the model house kitchen, bathrooms, etc; I was out drooling over the garages! :D

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:55 am
by chicagoross
About all the perpective I can get, George, until the flip...
Image

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:13 am
by Larry B
Thats impressive Ross :D Very nice clean work :D

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:04 pm
by gstanfield
Looking good Ross, she's got a nice looking transom there :wink:

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:25 pm
by FloatingTurtle
Hey Ross,

I've been wondering... Do you think it would be possible to lengthen this design by ~ 2 feet ? I was thinking of a longer cockpit, to have more space outside. But looking at the lines and the rounded seams, I am not sure it would be easy...

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:24 pm
by chicagoross
This boat has a lot of rocker. The last 3' of the transom are out of the water at light load. To lengthen, I think you'd have to redesign the entire bottom, very hard in stitch and glue. If you built it ply-on-frame, fairly easy, but wuold be a lot heavier. 2-3' longer sounds like you want Maia, not mini-Maia! :D Check out the study plans for both - I rejected Maia, and started the thread that led to developing Mini-Maia a few years ago, because as much as I really wanted Maia, it was not, IMHO, routinely trailerable. If you have the room, and a 1-ton dually as a tow vehicle, then that's the direction I'd go.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:42 pm
by FloatingTurtle
I have a Suzuki Grand Vitara that can tow ~ 3 000 pounds. The Maia is nice too but I much prefer the design of the Mini. I was just wondering if it would be possible to have more room outside. :wink:

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:33 am
by SP
I am excited to see how this design turns out.

When you pull the hull out of the carport to turn it over, please post a side view picture of the hull.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:20 pm
by chicagoross
Glassing... :D
Once it's flipped, we can not only get some pics overall from the side, but the interior work can be shown in more detail. But it will be a while. After the glassing, needs a skeg, rubrails (which will be really fun around the round end since won't be able to bend solid stock - should have cut curved rails while I still had my table :( ), fairing and graphite...gonna be a while! :D

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:04 am
by chicagoross
I'm almost ashamed at the slow progress :oops: , but the master of the boat building baby steps has finally completed glassing the hull :D . I don't mind only getting a couple hours a day in, but I absolutely hate it when I miss a day completely (that's what makes BB projects die...) and I missed several here. On to fairing, skeg, and rubrails! Not much to show yet, maybe the transom will look different with fairing on it...

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:00 am
by Dougster
No, that's not slow 'Ross, I know slow. Your flyin' by my standards. That's a lot of hull to glass so it's a milestone I'm thinkin'. I always end up with a few bubbles and such to fix. I'm interested in the skeg. The pics show it protecting the motor somewhat, but it looks like the prop would extend lower than the skeg in Evan's drawings. Same thing in the plans? I've always thought it would be nice to have a prop fully protected from grounding by the skeg, but maybe that would make it too shallow. Anyway, your not movin' slow.

Knows slow Dougster

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:04 pm
by chicagoross
Ah, Dougster, protecting the prop with the skeg is gonna be the least of my concerns with the motor situation! I have a x-long Merc 9.9 prokicker for it. Problem is, because this is a PTT model with a long clamp, I need 13" of mounting on a 9" clamping board. I had thought of lowering the clamping board (below hull depth) to keep from having the motor too high, and to keep the prop as low as possible. Harder than raising the clamping board, but better for performance and asthetics (hiding the motor). My current thinking is to simply raise the motor clamp level (and the prop) 4". Easier. Doesn't mess with the hull bottom. Still have the prop 1" deeper than a long shaft, which is also OK per plans. Main reason, though - looking at the drawings, the planned setup doesn't allow you to tilt the motor clear of the water! There are problems not only with cutting away more of the transom, but with frame E not allowing the motor to tilt forward. Since I'd rather tilt the motor when I run over a line or weed or trash, rather than go diving to clear it...this motor will tilt up somehow. Haven't got there yet, but it'll get figured out sooner or later. Just a few more hours in the pondering chair at the appropriate time! :D

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:33 am
by chicagoross
Sanding this week. Sanded last week. Will be sanding next week. :(

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:25 am
by Cracker Larry
:lol:

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:45 am
by peter-curacao
chicagoross wrote:Sanding this week. Sanded last week. Will be sanding next week. :(
That make at least the two of us :wink: 8)

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:20 pm
by chicagoross
I figure I'm past the halfway point on fairing, but definitely not done. Started the rubrails, picture show second (of 4) courses of 2" x 1/4" mahogany; I'm wrapping up the third course today. Image
Then off to the lumber yard for a suitagble piece of mahogany for the skeg.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:27 pm
by chicagoross
Next deviation from plans will be the skeg. I'm not comfortable with the plan skeg which spans 2 frames, is about 5' lon, and hangs down at the front:
Image
Seems like the leading edge would probably hang up every time you load on the trailer, and end up chipped and gouged. Every displacement hull plan I can find on the internet (including HMD19, Maia, and TW28 here, ply all of Devlins Designs, CMD, Selway Fisher, etc.) takes the skeg flat from the deepest part of the hull amidships aft. I will do the same. I think the skeg in the plans was planned because it fits in the nesting plan nicely and is easy to make and fit, not because it is the best way to go on a displacement hull. Ity certainly isn't the traditional method.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:46 pm
by peter-curacao
chicagoross wrote: Every displacement hull plan I can find on the internet (including HMD19, Maia, and TW28 here, ply all of Devlins Designs, CMD, Selway Fisher, etc.) takes the skeg flat from the deepest part of the hull amidships aft. I will do the same.
Not that I know, but Indeed that seems way more logic as the skeg in the pic

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:27 pm
by Daddy
Good choice Ross, even on my Nina showed the leading edge of the skeg ending abruptly although not as much as yours. I brought it another 6 inches forward and tapered it to nothing, did not want it to catch on anything.. Great to see your progress. I have wrapped BUNKY up for the winter and will decide on the windshield or not come spring. Wish I could work on it this winter but need the shop for other projects.
Daddy

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:04 pm
by Dougster
It's an aside but what are these other projects Daddy? Inquiring minds want to know :lol: Back on topic, I sure get what you're saying 'Ross, I never like the look of that skeg either. On Nina, I wish I'd made it more like Eric did, and tapered the aft section ( less turbulence for prop and transducer). Your notion of tapering it forward sounds good to me. God loves you for the sanding.

Least I think he does Dougster

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:29 am
by chicagoross
Got the third course of rubrails on - only one more and then sanding! :D $62 for a 2x8x10' mahogany for the skeg. Oh well, it's still cheaper than marine ply and a hell of a lot stronger and nicer to work with. Probably a bargain compared to stateside prices. Have nearly $100 in the 21 pieces 1/4"x2"x10' that I used for the rubrails. For any silent builders out there, it is 50' around the MM21 for each layer of the rubrails. You could use 3/8" easy forward, but definitely can't bend more than 1/4" around the transom.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:13 am
by topwater
You are flying Ross :!: I wish i could get mahogany for that price, i would have to pay 9.00 a
board foot and thats for 3/4".

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:01 pm
by SP
Good call on the skeg.

Does the plan enable you to tilt the outboard up? Maybe a cut out in the transom etc....

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:09 pm
by chicagoross
The plan shows a cut in the hull bottom only; the motor will not tilt out of the water. Mine will cut away as much of the transom as required to fully tilt the motor (for clearing lines/debris from prop, etc., without going swimming). :D

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:51 pm
by gstanfield
What's wrong with swimming Ross, you live in warm waters 8)

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:09 pm
by peter-curacao
chicagoross wrote:The plan shows a cut in the hull bottom only; the motor will not tilt out of the water. Mine will cut away as much of the transom as required to fully tilt the motor (for clearing lines/debris from prop, etc., without going swimming). :D
Ross Just an Idea, why not put the motor on a motor plate what lifts vertically? put the plate on some heavy duty slide rails like this and use an linear actuator to lift it, again just an idea :wink:

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:34 pm
by SP
With a round transom what do you do about backup power?

I assume you can't mount a small OB as a kicker/backup power.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:34 am
by chicagoross
The vertical lift is an interesting idea, but I already have PTT; would be cool though, you could shrink the size of the motorwell considerably.

No place to mount a kicker that I can think of; kind of funny seeing that my main motor is the Merc 9.9 "ProKicker" :D

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:03 am
by peter-curacao
chicagoross wrote:The vertical lift is an interesting idea, but I already have PTT; would be cool though, you could shrink the size of the motorwell considerably.

No place to mount a kicker that I can think of; kind of funny seeing that my main motor is the Merc 9.9 "ProKicker" :D
What is PTT?,I think that with that lift you can easily and safely change your "main" with a backup. :doh:

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:27 pm
by chicagoross
Power Trim and Tilt

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:21 pm
by peter-curacao
chicagoross wrote:Power Trim and Tilt
Ahh okay thanks 8)

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:25 am
by chicagoross
Yay! Just finished bending and glueing on the last of juist over 200 feet of rubrail! :D Started the skeg. Then I can get back to fairing... :lol:

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:06 am
by timmydafool
chicagoross wrote:Power Trim and Tilt
yeah i though "push to talk" but that made no sense! i love these bigger boats i will definitely be building one some day.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:02 pm
by ericsil
This is from several posts ago, but I would caution you on making that skeg too short. Most of the windage on your boat in a cross wind will be close to the front. If the center of resistance of the skeg is too far back you will end up with the situation I now have on the P19, i.e. the wind will push the cabin downwind much faster than the stern. Mine will start to spin in seconds with a 15mph breeze. Things can get really dicey if you are docking by yourself and the quarters are tight.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:29 pm
by Cracker Larry
We call that weathervaning. Not a good thing.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:35 pm
by chicagoross
Hadn't ever thought about the weathervaning thing, but it makes a lot of sense, thanks. Maybe that's why most displacement hulls show a full-length skeg (to the midpoint of the hull, the deepest part). I have extended the skeg about 4 foot forward, one more frame and a bit, to get it roughly to the deep part of the hull like most designs do, but I was mainly worried about wacking the dropped forward edge of the skeg on the trailer everytime I loaded. I rough cut the blank (the first cut on a $62 piece of mahogany took a lot of pondering chair time, stare at it some more, etc. :D ), but need the wife and or kids to hold it in place while I draw the final curve. Meanwhile I have sanded all the rubrails down, spread a little fill in a few spots, and when that cures I can re-sand :D and run the router over the edge.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:36 pm
by chicagoross
The skeg is 9 1/2 feet long instead of the 5 foot shown iin the plans.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:32 pm
by chicagoross
4 layers of rubrails done - sandedm routered, 2 coats of epoxy. Skeg is cut, shaped, and glued on. Still need to tape glass and fair the skeg, then back to fairing the hull :D .
Image

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:50 pm
by wegcagle
Looks Great Ross :!: I thought you said that you were slow? That's boat's coming along nicely :D

Will

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:54 pm
by peter-curacao
That's gonna be a very cool looking boat! great job on the rubrails looks like hard bends :?

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:46 pm
by Daddy
Nice job on the skeg, looks just like it should

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:48 pm
by FloatingTurtle
Real nice ! I am curious to see what it looks like from the front. The rub raib must have increased the stiffness a lot.

What are the faint crisscrossing lines that we can see around the transom ?

Did you make the skeg less tall ? On the plan is seemed to go deeper than the deepest part of the hull.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:14 am
by chicagoross
I am curious to see what it looks like from the front
...me too! :doh:
What are the faint crisscrossing lines that we can see around the transom ?
The first coat or two of fairing is on and sanded; that's the pattern of the biax cloth that you can see where the fairing is sanded down to the cloth. Some of the strands seem thicker than the others and produce little ridges, which have now been flattened out with blended filler.
Did you make the skeg less tall ? On the plan is seemed to go deeper than the deepest part of the hull.
Yes, it's 14 1/2" tall at the tail end instead of 15 1/2" tall. It's still an inch or so taller than the highest (deepest) part of the hull, and it's about 40" longer than the plan skeg, going forward a bit more than one additional frame.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:26 am
by SP
Looking good.

Skeg turned out real nice.

I have a feeling the boat is going to look much better in real life compared to the renderings in the study plans.

I can't wait to see it once you pull it out of the car port to turn it over.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:37 am
by topwater
Ross nice job on the rails and skeg :!: She sould track like she's on rails.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:32 pm
by SP
Here is an idea to mount a kicker.

Image

Boat is the TimberCoast 22, designed by Tad Roberts, plans sold by Bartender Boats.

I like the design, but it is inboard diesel only (which takes away a lot of the interior room in the pilothouse), no OB option.

I wouldn't mind trying to setup a similar paravane/flopper stopper rig on the MM21 or HMD18 for that matter.


chicagoross wrote:The vertical lift is an interesting idea, but I already have PTT; would be cool though, you could shrink the size of the motorwell considerably.

No place to mount a kicker that I can think of; kind of funny seeing that my main motor is the Merc 9.9 "ProKicker" :D

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:53 pm
by SP
Ross,

How wide is the door to the pilothouse on the MM21?

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:59 pm
by chicagoross
24".

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:08 pm
by SP
Perfect, thank you!

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:26 pm
by peter-curacao
I'm sorry mounting a kicker like that is imho just wasting a beautiful transom , but he that's my opinion :wink:

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:38 am
by chicagoross
I have to agree with peter on that mounting, but on the other hand I am sure impressed with his rigging of that Timber Coast. It's certainly a nice looking boat to start with, but he definitely outfitted with every bell and whistle made. I envy his budget! :D

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:21 pm
by BassMunn
Wow Ross that is one serious looking boat, nice to see you building again 8)

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:31 pm
by chicagoross
OK, had a few minutes to snap a couple pics (that's what we want on this board!) but what do you show when it seems all you ever do is sand?
When you finally finish sanding on a piece of the boat: Here's the rubrails, 4 layers. nicely "woven" at the joints,sanded, and a couple coats of epoxy:Image

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:37 pm
by chicagoross
Then on to the current piece-in-progress, the skeg. Pondered and decided how I wanted it, cut and shaped it of 2x philippine mahogany (or as we say here "Meranti", but never Lauan :D ), glued it on, sanded, filet and tape to hull with biax, sanded, covered sides in 12 oz biax overlapping the tape, sanded, one more strip ov biax over the top overlapping the sides, sanded, covered with the first layer (of and expected 3) of fairing compound (using Bateau blended filler for everything as Quick Fair is not mailable, therefore unavailable in Guam), and started (guess what?) sanding! :D ImageImage

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:39 pm
by chicagoross
Wrong pics, what's up photobucket?Image

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:03 pm
by gstanfield
Looking good Ross :D

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:02 pm
by Dougster
Boy the rails look neat. Not much I do can do to touch that. Lot's of us know what you mean about the sanding. You get to feeling like Job, like suffering is your lot. You work several hours, step back, and really can't see much difference. It's a faith thing, though, gotta have it. You're makin' progress, whether the camera sees it or not. And I'm sure enjoying this build here in Texas.

Says Yall got it goin' on Dougster

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:45 pm
by Prarie Dog
Looking good Ross, you are flying on this build! :D

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:49 am
by peter-curacao
nicely done Ross 8)

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:14 am
by Daddy
Ross, I pretty much used the blended filler too, the S3 primer seals it nicely and it sands pretty easily too. Lookin good.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:08 pm
by chicagoross
Well, got three cycles of spread filler and sand on 1/2 the boat, only 2 coats on the other side. I could see that 2 coats wasn't enough, but ran out of filler. Ordered more graphite and filler. Rolled a coat of sealer straight epoxy on the side that had the three coats (to fill my time while waiting to continue sanding :D ) and looked pretty good, so decided to graphite that side of the bottom. Couldn't get a cheapo laser level to draw a straight line; level the bubbles, rotate, and the bubbles all head to one side. Got my 8 year old son to hold one side of a water level tube, marked it, still looks wavy to me; must have defective water in Guam. Rolled the first coat of graphite and was able to confirm 3 things: Three layers of fill and sanding does get a workboat finish; that black reflective surface is a wonderful way to deflate your opinion of how smooth a surface is. Flies and bugs are definitely attracted to graphite (not epoxy) and will come for blocks around to be able to walk in that surface; and I don't know how the wind knows that you rolled graphite, but it does and will bring a load of airborne debris in to lay down on the wet surface. Guam's not as windy as Peter's place, though, don't know how he gets a finish on!

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:03 am
by Steven
Looking good Ross. I'll have those cleats to you before you flip. :) I'll get em out this week.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:56 pm
by FloatingTurtle
Hello Ross. And happy new year!

How is the boat coming ? A month and a half without update, I am getting worried... :wink: Think about your poor dependant followers :)

Take care.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:23 pm
by chicagoross
I got to the "faired to a workboat finish" point; 3 coats of primer on the sides and three coats of graphite, with a few bugs, on the bottom. Crawled underneath, tabbed all the frames to the hull for the flip. lay on my back holding a grinder over my head and smoothed off enough drips from the rubrails that noone should get their hands ripped up too bad during a flip. The ladder frame for the cradle is built, with 10 2x4s for supports standing by. Been raining all the time for weeks and a lot of other business going on to keep me from my task. My digital camera bit the dust, batteries too old to charge. I'll have my wife shoot lots of pics for the flip with hers. Need to round up some big guys twice, first to lift and hold the cradle ladder on top of the hull while I fit the rests and braces, then a few more to lift and carry out the hull, flip it, and get it back inside.

Slow progress, but I'll definitely post pics when we get it to the point I can take some! :D

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:57 pm
by gstanfield
Good to hear you've made some progress. I'll be glad to help you flip it, do you need my address to send the plane tickets? :wink:

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:18 pm
by chicagoross
Where were you last month during the fairing, George? :D By January, most folks in Wyoming are ready to pay to go somewhere warm... You're welcome here, But I better save that money for the next load of glass and epoxy... :(

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:42 pm
by gstanfield
Sorry pard, I'll come out and help sand too. I wonder if I can bring epoxy as a carry-on :?:

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:49 pm
by Daddy
If you have more than one ticket... it was 20 below 0 here today...

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:55 pm
by FloatingTurtle
-24 C here in Montreal this last week-end...

I will be waiting for these pictures with barely restrained impatience :wink:

Did you cut out the motor well yet ?

Don't give up!

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:12 pm
by chicagoross
Well, I'm waiting to gather enough people to lift and hold the cradle
with barely restrained impatience
... :D The motorwell will wait til the boat is flipped and glassed inside; all the bulkheads, clamping boards, etc need to be built before I cn do the measurements. Shouldn't be a problem for this boat to do it right-side up, there will be plenty of room to work underneath the aft end because of the rocker in this hull.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:30 am
by chicagoross
out of the carport:
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Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:32 am
by chicagoross
lay it down, gently! :D
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Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:35 am
by chicagoross
roll it over, gently; hold your breath waiting to hear cracking noises (at this point, a boat builder has visions of it all pancaking back down into a flat stack of plywood sheets again... 8O )
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Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:37 am
by chicagoross
slide out the cradle:
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Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:40 am
by chicagoross
back into the carport for phase two (build up to the decks, the house won't fit in the carport :D )
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Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:41 am
by chicagoross
Corona time! :D
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Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:55 am
by fodrega
Congratulations Ross, and thank you your support.

Fabio.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:58 am
by wegcagle
Nicely done 8) She's gonna be a looker for sure.

Will

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:04 am
by Cracker Larry
Corona time for sure! Well done Ross :!:

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:14 am
by gstanfield
Congrats on the flip pard, she's a looker!

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:25 am
by Daddy
Nice work Ross, must be a big relief to have her flipped. :D

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:42 pm
by BradleyD
Congratulations...gorgeous boat!

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:46 pm
by peter-curacao
Little late but congrats on the flip Ross, she's a looker 8)

Peter

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:55 am
by topwater
BOAT LOOKS AWSOME :!: Keep posting the boat porn Ross , i like watching the first MM21 come togeather
on the board 8)

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:22 pm
by rick berrey
Nice work, I more impressed thats shes going to let you keep both boats. :P

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:27 pm
by Dougster
I sure love this build and the hull looks terrific to me. She's gonna be a looker. Congrats on the progress.

Watchin' Dougster

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:47 pm
by FloatingTurtle
Beautiful pictures, thanks for sharing. I think it is a very elegant boat 8)

Was the hull heavy to flip? What are your first impressions, seeing the hull in its upright position for the first time? I wondered about space for the V-berth, if it would fell large or cramped...

I will continue to follow your build with delight.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:10 pm
by chicagoross
Thanks to all for the support and kind words! First impressions after the flip are that it's a really big 21' boat! I can see that the pilothouse is going to be ample in size; next month I'll tell you about the berths, right now all the frames are sheer-height and it's kind of hard to imagine, need to get them glassed in and cut down. At 5'10" I find the HMD berths to be adequate, and from Evan's old posting of the MM21 overlayed over the HMD, the Mini Maia should be as well, a bit bigger and a lot more spacious feeling due to the raised sheer as opposed to trunk cabin. I've also noticed that because of the slanted dinette backrest, the port side berth can be extended at least 4" without compromising design, so I think it will be fine. We use this as a (long) day cruiser anyway, so other than checking the fit in the HMD when I was building it, the captain has never actually used the berths on the HMD (but the first mate and the crew really love them since we go out for an 8 - 10 hour day cruising).

Recycled some of the 2x6s from the building jig into a 4' high staircase yesterday - I figure I'll climb into this boat a hundred times more during the build this year than I possibly could during the next ten years of actual use!

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:13 pm
by chicagoross
As to the weight, we flipped it and carried it back and forth with 7 guys. so maybe 500 pounds? two more would have been really nice, I don't think we could have done it with 6. The HMD flipped with 6 guys no sweat.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:29 am
by topwater
Ross how about some boat porn :?: Its been a month your killing me :(

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:03 pm
by FloatingTurtle
I second that. I come to this thread almost daily, hoping for an update :wink:

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:51 pm
by chicagoross
Sorry guys, the battery on my camera died and won't recharge :( . Have to borrow my wife's. The frames have been cut down and installed, and glassing recommenced yesterday when my glass arrived after spending 5 weeks crossing the pacific ocean, apparently the USPS is now using small sailboats to ship parcels. :D

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:44 pm
by chicagoross
This is always a little embarrasing, after seeing so many pics of clean shops, clean builds, etc.; so this is for the other guys that are too embarrassed to post! I mean, c'mon, boat building is messy! I do vacuum before any glassing, and will clean up good before painting, I promise! Anyhow, nice round transom, last frame (F) spot welded in, will get taped in this afternoon. MM21 is glassed both sides of hull panels with 12 oz biax, and scheduled for 4 oz woven both sides bottom, but since this isn't a surfboard that didn't seem right and this MM21 got 12 oz biax on bottom exterior too. Inside bottom in rear is also 12 oz. Tarp is because the boat is a couple feet longer than my carport!
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The aft three sections, last one is motorwell with seating over and storage each side underneath. This frame (F) was covered both sides with 6 oz woven while it was flat and easy to do (it serves as seating and motorwell), before the hatches were cut. The next two sections are the cockpit, pretty spacious:
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Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:50 pm
by peter-curacao
chicagoross wrote:This is always a little embarrasing, after seeing so many pics of clean shops, clean builds, etc.
You think that's embarrassing? take a look behind my lens please, all I show is what's in front :wink: or visa versa it depends :D your build looks awesome! 8)

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:56 pm
by chicagoross
Betwen frames B and D is the pilothouse; a dinette/convertable kids (or filipino wife) berth will go here:
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Looking forward, the forward two sections form the v-berth; long enough for 5'10" captain and 5' first mate. Once I get the berth flats in, I'll be able to tell if it's suitable for you stretched out guys. It might be, but probably not if you're wife is stretched out too. Lead ballest goes in the front, with a 13 gallon watertank under the berth in the second compartment.
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Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:01 pm
by peter-curacao
chicagoross wrote:Betwen frames B and D is the pilothouse; a dinette/convertable kids (or filipino wife) berth will go here:
Well well well as I look at it, Filipino wife's are as tall/ small as Dominican wife's LOL :lol: 8)

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:03 pm
by chicagoross
That triangle sitting there in the last photo was the bottom of the anchorwell, cut a fitted, waiting for the berths to go in before glueing. Here's a shot looking forward; the frame with the u-shaped cut is the aft pilothouse bulkhead (lower half) with the cutout being the bottom of the pilothouse door. The plans call for splitting the bulkhead vertically, but I knew I could never flip it like that so frames were split horizontally instead. You might notice that glassing is partially completed, Evan recommends installing some of the frames before glassing the hull, which is what I've done. That's different than most of the planing boats where you glass the entire hull before adding the structure.
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Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:01 pm
by gstanfield
Looking great Ross :D

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:21 pm
by Steven
Looking great Ross. Don't worry about a mess, it just means you're making progress. :)

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:57 am
by topwater
Thanks for the pic's Ross... very cool :!: Dont worry about the mess , take a close look at my shop
it looks like a fairing bomb went off in it 8O

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:43 pm
by chicagoross
Bulwarks being stitched on. no scarfing.
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Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:44 pm
by chicagoross
or rather no kerfing.
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Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:52 pm
by FloatingTurtle
Hello Ross,

Very nice work; I like the look of the round transom with the bulwark. Will you hang used tires on the sides? I would probably do it, to add to the mini tug look. :wink:

About the cabin sides, you will just make fiberglass splices or will you cover the whole panels with giberglass?

Thank you for the pictures !

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:01 am
by chicagoross
Cabin sides on this boat are scheduled for covering with 4 oz woven. I'd like to put the rubbing board (I have to look to an old thread to remember what it's called) along the side as shwon in the study plans. Gearge had the best idea of just painting it on with Kiwigrip or the like.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:02 am
by gstanfield
I think I suggested some spray on bedliner material, that stuff is almost bulletproof. Although Kiwigrip would work good too, I just don't have any experience with it to know if it's very durable 8)

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:19 pm
by chicagoross
Well, three weeks to some visable progress. Not very visable to you, my camera seems to have gotten senile.
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Will get some better pics tomorrow when my wife gets home with the other camera. Anyhow, the building is just bit by bit, but this bit took longer than others. Fileted and taped inside and out, glassed with 6 oz woven inside and out, wrapped with 1 1/2" half round mahogany inside and out. routed the rub rails 3/8". Lots of sanding between each step. This bulwarks is roundish instead of really round, there's some distortion in it that I noticed when I went to start the rail caps, and I should have ground the whole thing off and started over :( , but with the boat in the carport there is no where for me to re-cut the 16' long piece of ply (which was in my living room for a couple months and I was really happy to get it out). the perfect bulwarks will have to wait for another day. Kind of fun seeing a round stitch and glue boat! Better pics tomorrow.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:42 am
by peter-curacao
Despite all the hiccups you are calling, like camera etc, I think it looks great 8)

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:07 am
by topwater
Looking good Ross , this is a very cool boat :!:

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:50 pm
by tobolamr
Man, even senile pics are better than no pics! I'm very interested in seeing more pictures!

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:44 am
by chicagoross
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Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:46 am
by chicagoross
almost done with interior glassing.
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Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:22 am
by Cracker Larry
Very nice, Ross 8) I really didn't know plywood could make curves that sexy :D

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:50 am
by peter-curacao
very cool Ross 8) , real curious to her (your) layout

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:44 am
by tobolamr
Ross - that is very cool! Please keep the pictures coming! And I agree with Cracker Larry's sentiment, too :wink:

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:47 pm
by chicagoross
I really didn't know plywood could make curves that sexy
It didn't really want to, and took some serious persuading... :D Kefing the rails was a treat, too, that's why it took so long, they were all bending in two directions, lots of kerfing. Glad that's done!

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:34 am
by chicagoross
Good milestone today - I finished glassing the insides. Although I think this method of building produces the best hull for the tropics in terms of rot-proof etc., glassing and sanding isn't that much fun here. When it's 95 degrees, protective gear consists of gloves, shorts, flip-flops and safety glasses. You itch all the time. 90 - 95 degrees also means climb out of the boat every 3 oz of epoxy (6 for biax cloth which really sucks it up) and mix another small cup. Any larger and it foams and burns your hand... :D Anyhow, cutting and fitting bits and pieces is a lot more fun for me!

So, back to boat building! Time to start cleats and soles. After this point, almost every piece requires fitting, I know my build has drifted a bit from plan dimensions by now... :oops: Any how, the score thus far is 18 gallons of epoxy, 3 1/2 rolls of biax tape, 50 yards 12 oz biax cloth Most of the hull expenses are already in (excepting the dreadfully costly fitting out ...). I think I'm on schedule to use less epoxy than the HMD18 (I used 30), which only had a fraction as much glass in it, so not too unhappy.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:37 am
by Larry B
Ross, as others have said, NICE, Very Nice :D

Got a question? how do you do the epoxy work in that kind of heat and humidity without dripping sweat in your work :doh: Probably same question for others in High Humiditiy Climates??? Even if I wrap a towel around my head it starts dripping sweat in a matter of minutes. I worked inside a shop so didn't have that problem, and thats the reason I was wondering?

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:24 am
by peter-curacao
Larry B wrote:
Got a question? how do you do the epoxy work in that kind of heat and humidity without dripping sweat in your work :doh: Probably same question for others in High Humiditiy Climates??? Even if I wrap a towel around my head it starts dripping sweat in a matter of minutes. I worked inside a shop so didn't have that problem, and thats the reason I was wondering?
As he said shorts and flip flops only :wink: I also have a fan for non windy days. 8)

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:18 pm
by Cracker Larry
I don't even wear flip flops. Shorts and barefoot, and keep the fan pointing at you :lol:

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:15 pm
by wegcagle
Shorts and barefoot, and keep the fan pointing at you
Yep, plus I wipe off my forehead with my shirt. I have found that a good dip in the pool or prerinsing before scrubbing in the shower helps keep the fiberglass from cutting you up too much. Other than that I just deal with the itch. It only lasts for a couple of days (then again I'm not allergic to epoxy, so for me the itch isn't unbearable)

Will

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:25 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yep, plus I wipe off my forehead with my shirt.
In the winter :lol: I usually don't even wear a shirt in the warm months, too dang hot for clothes. I've about become desensitized to the itch, it doesn't bother me much or very long. Blow it off with the compressor, hose it off, jump in the pool, its gone. What I hate is when you get it all in your clothes, it takes 6 washings to get rid of it and you usually contaminate everything else before it's done. Including the wife's undy-things. When I see her squirming in the chair, I don't dare mention that I washed some of her clothes with mine :help:

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:21 pm
by stickystuff
If you douse yourself with baby powder before sanding it will help keep the itchin down. Powder fills your pores and makes you smell more gooder to. :roll: :roll: :lol: :lol:

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:28 pm
by wegcagle
I like it Ken. I'm gonna have to try that soon. I'm heading to south GA on Friday to visit my family (and see my boat again :D ). I probably won't get a lot done, but I can sure spend a few hours sanding her. They don't have a pool to wash down in, but they've got a pond. Good enough 8)

Will

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:01 pm
by Cracker Larry
I'm heading to south GA on Friday to visit my family (and see my boat again :D
Want to make a detour by Savannah and go fishing? You aren't going to that silly golf tournament, are you :lol:

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:26 pm
by wegcagle
I'm going to take my girl to see my parents. First time in almost a year :cry: It's been too long. Then during Masters week we are going to detour by Augusta to see my inlaws. I would love to detour Savannah on that Thursday (4th... I think) for a fishing detour. No boat and no family members coming to town to ruin the plans this year. Let me check with the boss, and I'll shoot you an email tomorrow.

Hope you're still planing on me paying for the Keys fishing. I will be arriving Thurs. night and will fly out Monday. I'm bach-ing it up so I've got nothing by fishing and drinking planned in between :lol: :help:

Will

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:52 pm
by chicagoross
Boy I'd like a day fishing in the Keys... :D Started fitting and glueing cleats. No problem dripping sweat on them, when you drip on the ply you're trying to lay glass on, you get little white spots under the glass. You try to wipe your face alot, and live with what you missed. :D

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:56 pm
by peter-curacao
chicagoross wrote:Boy I'd like a day fishing in the Keys... :D Started fitting and glueing cleats. No problem dripping sweat on them, when you drip on the ply you're trying to lay glass on, you get little white spots under the glass. You try to wipe your face alot, and live with what you missed. :D
At least you can say, blood sweat and tears went into this boat, literally :wink:

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:23 pm
by Larry B
chicagoross wrote:Boy I'd like a day fishing in the Keys... :D Started fitting and glueing cleats. No problem dripping sweat on them, when you drip on the ply you're trying to lay glass on, you get little white spots under the glass. You try to wipe your face alot, and live with what you missed. :D
Ross, yea thats what I was wondering? So it's not something you have to worry a lot about? Just kinda do the best you can to keep everything dry.
Are you going to do some bright work on her?

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:50 am
by chicagoross
Bright work: hand rails on the roof. :D My rub rails are all solid mahogany, but took a lot of kerfing to get around the stern. Would look kind of funny bright if you looked at it from above! Looks nice right now from the sides, though, with three coats of epoxy on it. I've also thought of doing the whole house in mahogany, I've seen some nice pics but that's probably just day dreams. All plans and modifications are subject to the mood of the builder at the time...

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:13 am
by chicagoross
Out of epoxy, slowing progress...Meanwhile, fitting a few bits with what's left in the woodpile! Motorwell sides fitted and tack welded, cockpit sole dry-fitted (still thinking of tryin to cram a small fuel tank under there...
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The water tank arrived, allowing berth construction to commence. They got the outlet right, and then installed the vent and fill fittings with no relation to my faxed requests, meaning pondering chair time timeto figure out hose and filler locations. BTW, very much cheaper to order from Ronco (manufacturer) than elsewhere on internet.
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Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:23 am
by topwater
Ross whats up :?: No update. I know you have been busy, no stealth build here .

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:02 pm
by chicagoross
Almosst no progress in 3 months... :( Life got in the way. Hope to get started again soon, but will be slow build time. I'll update when a visible progress is made!

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:26 am
by vagner
chicagoross wrote:Almosst no progress in 3 months... :( Life got in the way. Hope to get started again soon, but will be slow build time. I'll update when a visible progress is made!
Hello Ross,
I'm from Brazil and I follow the forum of the bateau boat building. My dream is to build a TW28. It's a big boat and beautiful, but it is beyond my possibilities. The bigger the boat = higher expenses, difficulties storage, maintenance etc ...

The decision to purchase a plan Bateau is already taken! I want a boat displacement of up to 25 feet, with a maximum of OB engine up to 25 HP.

I thought about HMD19, MM21 or Maia24. I like the design of the MM21 that you are building. If you do not mind, I have some questions I want to ask some questions, that will help me decide which design made up

Sincerely,

Vagner
ps sorry my english

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:43 am
by chicagoross
Ask away, your English is fine! I chose the MM21 as the largest I could reasonably tow. The Maia is just want I wanted, but don't think my Toyota pickup would be a very good tow vehicle, so the MM21 gives me as much as possible under my conditions.

Not much visible progress, the cockpit sole and cabin sole are in and glassed, working on fitting the water tank now before glueing down the berths.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:24 am
by tobolamr
"visible progress" means new pictures to the rest of the world... :lol: It's great to see every little step! Easier to cheer you on that way, too!

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:57 am
by chicagoross
OK, took some pics to update the builed; went to photbucket, it's a beta version that I can't even see my old pics with? Anyone solved this probme, or do I need to find a new way to post?

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:01 am
by Dougster
Mine still seems to be working, but it's a whole new look. They've "upgraded" I guess. It's a pita to fix something that works.

Turning into an old codger Dougster

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:04 am
by Cracker Larry
I don't like the beta version either, but there is a button on the top (right, I think) that allows you to return to the original version.

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:13 pm
by chicagoross
Tha button doesn't work to take you back to old photobucket. Says O have 121 photos but can't see them, Guess we have to wait.

Cockpit and cabin soles are fitted, glued and taped, and glassed. Built a compartment for the water tank under the berth tops, installed the tank and foamed it in place. Used a left over, sealed 2 gallon foam kit, about 4 years old, and it took most of the kit for this small job. The stuff definitely has a shelf life. Worked OK here under the water tank, as we need to add ballast in this area anyway, but must be the world's heaviest densist foam.

Cut and fit the berth tops yesterday. They appeared too small to sleep in, but found that you can stretch out as long as you're about 6' or so, any taller and you'll be hanging out. Also found that because of the raised deck forward, a couple people can easily sit up comfortably using the hull as backrest, stretch their legs out and kick back. I took pics and will show you when I figure the new Facebook out!

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:43 am
by chicagoross
OK, cockpit and cabin floors fitted and glassed. I built "stringers" under, making compartments, not called for in plans but I felt the soles were "springy" and need more support. That's OK, the extra weight is below the waterline... :D
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Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:45 am
by chicagoross
Before fitting the berth tops (which fit perfect cut to plan, maybe a first for me :D ), I buildt a compartment for the water tank and then foamed it in. 4 year old foam, even unopened, seemed to have very little expansion left compared to when new:
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Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:48 am
by chicagoross
The berth tops seemed pretty small when cut, but a six footer could still stretch out, I'm 5'10". Your first mate probably should only be about 5' tall...
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Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:52 am
by chicagoross
The "raised deck" design of MM21 means lots of room in the berths to sit up, compared to a trunk cabin design. The hull sides make a nice angled backrest:
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That's all for now, I have all 4 hatches for the berths laid out, next week will glue the berths in, tape, and start working hatches. Working only a few hours each Saturday and Sunday now, so progress seems to have slolwed to a crawl, but better than the months I couldn't work on it at all!

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:19 am
by Cracker Larry
Very good looking work, Ross 8) That's a BIG project!

Looks like you got the photobucket figured out?

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:22 am
by topwater
Nice work Ross, keep the pic's coming 8)

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:24 pm
by chicagoross
Like Larry said, this is a big project, but is moving steadily faster than a speeding glacier...Decks are on and rubrails wrapped with two layers of glass and faired. A hole lot more fairing to do at this point, but my current thinking for this tug-style cruiser is that it will get Kiwigrip up to the rubrails, plus all decks, (like the pics of most of Devlin's tugs). which will mean a lot less fairing and sanding. But it is a big boat!
Image

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:29 pm
by chicagoross
One more of my superisor, Cap'n Paul.
Image

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:12 pm
by Hope2float
Ross, good to see you at it. the boat looks great and I must say very roomy. It is a big one for sure. your work looks neat and solid. I know the feeling of a big boat project got one of those tasks going myself. Build on
Dave

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:17 pm
by tobolamr
Wow! Looking good!

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:27 pm
by Larry B
Man thats a lot of work, and a very big boat. Your doing a great job on her. Nice to have a supervisor to keep you going :D

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:48 am
by chicagoross
Yeah, my supervisor's great. Aspiring Jacques Cousteau - we did our first night dive last week, but all we saw was an octupus. Lucky to be in an area where you can fish and snorkel all year round without a wetsuit!

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 8:59 am
by topwater
Hey Ross how is it going :?: Any updates ?

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun May 05, 2013 1:50 am
by chicagoross
Nothing photo worthy; cut in some hatches a little fairing, waiting for funding...:)

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:04 am
by topwater
Ross how about a update :!: I see you lurking on the site , hows the boat coming along :?:

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:32 pm
by chicagoross
No pics, been sick, cutting and fitting the cabin panels but need to move the whole thing out of the carport for the room to glue them up...haven't quite figured out the logistics of where the HMD goes when I move the new hull. It'll happen sometime this year, I haven't forgotten it but lately it's been a couple hours of work on the weekend, a lot of life got in the way. Believe me, I anxious about getting the project finished too!

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:10 pm
by pee wee
Any news on your build? It's an interesting boat, you've made a lot of progress already . . . :?:

Re: Guam MM21

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:40 am
by Jmk2000
Did you ever finish this build? I’m thinking about possibly building on in the next couple of years.