GV10 - Fast Garvey 10 - Waiting to fish in Salt Lake

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Cracker Larry
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Re: GV10 - Fast Garvey 10 - Waiting to fish in Salt Lake

Post by Cracker Larry »

I test sanded one or 2 of these with the RO sander and an 80 grit disk and was surprised at how well the fillet material sanded down. I've heard night mares about sanding this stuff but it seems the silica is doing its job.
Nothing to it, unless there is a lot of it :lol: Switch to a 40 or 50 grit disk and get 'er done. I usually run over it first with 40 grit and get rid of the uglies, then again with 80 to smooth it out. No need to be gentle at this stage.
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Re: GV10 - Fast Garvey 10 - Waiting to fish in Salt Lake

Post by Spcmnspff »

Progress has been slow but steady as full summer has kicked in. I have the inside seams fillted and taped. There is going to some sanding required before I sheath it fiberglass. =D

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I went ahead and taped in the frames. I got feedback from Evan that is wasn't necessary, but I had already cut the tape. I figured it can't hurt and having the extra strenght there might be helpful seeing as I'm not necessarily slim. =) The boat is ready to be flipped and the seams finished on the outside.

I rigged a furniture dolly with pneumatic tires to cradle the hull while it is upside right. This keeps everything in reach without being too high.

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I worked on the sheer line as i had a notch to sand down at the the joint between the sides and bow transom after that trimming that was necessary on the chine panels I mentioned earlier. Anyway I had enough room to bed a batten in the opposite radius just before the bow. Gives it an interesting line.

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I picked up an outboard motor for the boat last weekend. It's a 1974 12.9 chrysler. Its a runner but it still needs the bottom end seals redone and the water impeller will likely need replacing. I need to focus on the boat now and the motor after less I become to distracted ;-) Here it is sitting on the stand I built for it.

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Sean

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Re: GV10 - Fast Garvey 10 - Waiting to fish in Salt Lake

Post by Spcmnspff »

Ok the outside seams are filled in and sanded. I achieved a decent radius with an ro sander and a 60 grit pad.

Here are some shots of the radius:

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Tomorrow night the outside seams get taped.
Sean

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Re: GV10 - Fast Garvey 10 - Waiting to fish in Salt Lake

Post by Spcmnspff »

Ok outside seams are taped. I am now out of epoxy and I need to order more. So one gallon got me this far, plus a few test laminates - not bad for a noob. According to the plan I have 2 gallons remaining for fill coats and a little filleting for the bow frame and d eck. I should be within range.

So after using too much epoxy on the fiberglass butt joints, I've been focusing on getting the glass to resin ratio right. Here's the latest work. At the time of the pics the resin was barely setup and still tacky, hence the sheen:

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I've found that thicker epoxy is not all that bad even for laminating. Work is slower when wetting out, but more thorough. You spend a lot of time with the chip brush as you go - pushing the resin into the glass getting it to wet out properly, but you seldom have to go back over your work. And you don't get any runners. The only issue is this takes more time and you can only mix up small batches. My only issue with the epoxy that I just used is the shorter pot life. Thicker epoxy plus a short pot life is tough sledding and very slow work. Going by weight, I was mixing up 70 gram batches at a time, every 20 minutes or so to keep the stuff from kicking while wetting out. And once the stuff starts to kick, keep it away from the glass! The resin will only partially wet the glass and cease to work into the rest of fabric! This is somewhat fixable by taking a fresh batch of epoxy and working it in while everything is still tacky, but it's best to avoid this.

So I think a little more viscosity and a longer pot life is workable and there even some advantages to this format. Still I need to purchase 2 more gallons, so I figure I'll go the complete opposite with a low viscosity, longer pot life laminating resin. That seems to to be the bulk of the work I have left anyway. And heck, might as well get all the exposure I can and see what I like. =)

I'm completely out of supplies. I need to order glass for the hull and more epoxy. This may take a week or so. After mentioning the size of the motor in a different thread, Evan has recommended glass for strength on both sides of the hull, i.e. something better than 6oz woven that seems to only yield abrasion resistance. I'm pricing stuff out now and I'm actually thinking about style 1800 10 oz woven. Granted, this isn't biaxial knitted at 45 bias, but it is very strong at 400 lbs/inch warp and 300 lbs/inch fill. Here's the data sheet from the manufacturer for what thats worth:
http://jpsglass.com/jps_databook.pdf (you'll have to scoll thorught all their products to find it.)
This style 10 oz is much stronger than some of the others i.e. 7500. And its a very economical tooling fabric. I think this will be fine for the hull with a 12.9 hp motor at the cost of a slightly heavier hull.
Sean

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Re: GV10 - Fast Garvey 10 - Waiting to fish in Salt Lake

Post by wadestep »

Your laminations/ wetting out looks a lot better now! Looks like a better ratio of epoxy to glass. If you havent' already tried it, I'd suggest using a squeegee. It's what I use now for about 95% of the glassing I do. For me, it works faster/better than either other options I've tried - ie foam roller or brush. Also, when using a squeegee, if you have wet out the cloth and then generally squeeze as much excess epoxy as you can out of the cloth/tape, you're about right. (as long as you don't try tooo hard...)
Looks like you're getting the hang of it.
wade
Completed : OB19, CC14, GV10.

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Re: GV10 - Fast Garvey 10 - Waiting to fish in Salt Lake

Post by Evan_Gatehouse »

I'd be a bit wary of "tooling fabric" - it might be fairly loose weave and made for molds. i.e. not the best quality.

Also it will probably have 1/2 the fibers running along the length of the panels, where it won't contribute to strength as much as 2 x 45 degree fibers. However.... if you get a good deal on it, it will probably work OK

OK - just downloaded the data sheet - 1800 is not 18 oz/sq yard as I had assumed. It's only 9.4 oz / sq yard. The biaxial is 12 oz/square yard (~400 gm/m2) and will be quite a bit stronger (roughly double).

For maximum longevity I'd stick with biaxial. If you're on a tight budget then the woven will be OK - but the hull panels may flex a bit.

Bateau sells a 10oz woven that is on special right now.
http://boatbuildercentral.com/proddetai ... cpdukqqIxg
designer: FB11/GV10,11,13/ HMD18/
SK17,MM21/MT24

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Re: GV10 - Fast Garvey 10 - Waiting to fish in Salt Lake

Post by Spcmnspff »

Hmm I already ordered 10 yards of the 10oz (or 9.4 oz) woven. I think I'll be ok. If I have enough maybe I'll cut it on the bias for the interior. I'll have to cut it up for that anyway. The stuff I ordered is 60 inches wide.

Thanks so much for keeping tabs on my build thread, Evan. This is such an awesome format! Having access to the designers during the build is extremely helpful. It's one of the main reasons I bought the plans from Bateau - the other being that I really liked your boat. =)

So obviously I am just learning about all this stuff. The budget is some consideration but not all. I wish I still lived in Florida, actually. I used to live in Port St Lucie. I could have made the drive to Vero and bought everything from Bateau and saved on shipping. Hah! I still have relatives there maybe I can use them somehow. =D

So I picked the style 1800 out of the book because it has high breaking strength in both directions for its weight - much higher than similar cloth of the same weight (like 7500). I guess this isn't the only factor, if I'm reading your post correctly. It is a low thread count, looser weave. So i'm guessing this means a naturally higher r/g ratio and less stiffness when fully cured despite the high breaking strength of the cloth. At any rate, It should be real easy to wet out. Though I imagine the threads are thicker and there will some print through and extra fill coats. Well see how this turns out. I'll keep posting.
Sean

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Re: GV10 - Fast Garvey 10 - Waiting to fish in Salt Lake

Post by Spcmnspff »

So the epoxy showed up on tuesday and the fiberglass showed up on wednesday - July 3rd. By 4am July 4th, I had the outside hull completely laminated. While that sounds a little eager maybe, it was actually a good time to get the work done. I had the next day off and, to quote another build thread, it's been "Africa hot" around here this past week - Like 104F! At altitude here in Salt Lake, it can burn up like that during the summer days but it will drop down into the 70s at night. So cooler temps means less sweat while working in my overalls (don't judge me lol) and more pot time with the epoxy.

This new epoxy system is working great. It's thinner and has a longer pot life. Like maybe 45 minutes and 1.5 hour working time. This is good for me as I work pretty slow right now. Comparing the two I have worked with thus far, I wouldn't go as far as saying one of these is necessarily better the the other one. I think they both have their merits. The short pot life was probably the biggest issue with the old system I was using. The new one makes it easier to wet out the glass. But the older one was really good for fillets and filled applications. Also I can see myself wishing I had some of the thicker stuff left when I go to filling the weave. We will see. This time I went ahead and bought the hand pumps. Mixing batches is a much cleaner operation now! I sill use a scale to check the ratios though. That's whats been working for me and I haven't had any failures thus far.

The glass showed up on the roll and in a cardboard box straight from the manufacturer I have a hunch that where I bought this online as a direct retail outlet for the factory itself. I received and invoice and account summary from the factory on Monday night. This is style 1800 finished in volan at 60" width. I was surprised that it wet out as clear as it did. It's supposed to be a little stiffer and less conformable than 7500 of similar weight. Although I haven't noticed any issues. It's wide enough that it goes over the keel and chines and about 4" inches up both sides at max beam. So that's the way I decided laid it down. I figure this will give the chines a little extra strength. One thing I didn't mention in the last post - I ran out of epoxy before I could tape the keel and a couple of smaller pieces at the bow transom. So that went on first thing wednesday night and it was tacky by the time I put the sheet glass over it later that night. So those areas will be wet on wet with the next layer glass for whatever that's worth.

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It's tough sledding doing this with one person. Mixing, spreading, mixing spreading. This went on for about 7 hours by my calculation, including taping the keel seams. I picked up some Bondo squeeegies and that worked well on the main part of the hull - thanks Wade for that tip. That saved me a lot of time. On the sides and over the corners, I still worked it in with a chip brush, and that's where I spent most of the time - on the areas where I couldn't pour out 4 oz of epoxy and spread it out fast. Some of these pics came out a little blurry. Not sure what the issue was, It was super late and maybe I had some epoxy on the lens or something. Ha! Seems fine now.

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Won't have to worry about the fir at the transom checking with 10 0z glass on it. On the corners I cut the glass at angles that allowed a small amount of over lap maybe 1 - 2 inches. So kind of like gift wrapping over the corners, there is some overlap of the glass over st corners of the transom/side/ chine joint. But I kept it minimal.

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I worked stern to bow. Here what looks like pooled resin is actually still wet compared to the stuff closer to the camera that was already tacky and pretty much cured.

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Ok so I has some scrap pieces and I decided to laminate the sides all the way to the sheer too. I figured, with the possibility of wobbly sides, I'd want any extra stiffness added there. I did this a little strangely though and it will take some work fairing this out I'm sure. I didnt over lap the glass on the sides. I left about 1/4 - 1/2 an inch, about as close as I could get with the frayed fibers of the cut cloth:

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So I'm happy with the results. I'm starting to get a feel for how much fairing I will need to do and I'm dreading that a little bit. I'd have to say Evan, I searched though your blog for a little while to get a look at your gv10 tender, and I really like the idea of a work boat finish, heh. Its probably a good goal to have for a first timer, anyway. Too bad someone took your dinghy last year. =( Maybe I'll paint mine yellow with green fun noodle rub rails in honor of yours. =) I know green will likely be some of the color involved if not most. I'm letting my boys help choose the colors and green is the favorite of two out of the three.
Sean

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Re: GV10 - Fast Garvey 10 - Waiting to fish in Salt Lake

Post by Spcmnspff »

Filler coats are going on with neat epoxy. This stuff is going on thin. But that's not such an issue actually. I bought the west systems rollers and these coats are going on fast. So a lot of quick, thin coats to fill the weave, then one last coat. Then fairing begins . . .

You're not going to win any fashion contests building a boat! The wife took this pic before a little sanding this morning:

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Sean

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Re: GV10 - Fast Garvey 10 - Waiting to fish in Salt Lake

Post by wadestep »

I'm not sure how far along you are with teh neat epoxy filler coats. But unless you are going to be leaving the boat finished bright (wood showing through a clear finish) I don't know of any reason not to put appropriate additives into your neat epoxy to thicken it up. The thickened fairing compound would then be able to fill the weave and fair all at once, and with a very few coats comparitively. Much faster and less expensive.
wade
Completed : OB19, CC14, GV10.

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