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Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:52 am
by Corvidae
So after constantly listening to a work buddy talk about sailing, I convinced myself I could build a boat. 8O
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I only need a few inches clearance to fit it in my garage right?
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It's going to be tight, but I think it'll just make it.
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That is assuming I actually glued the panels straight, and mixed the epoxy right. Did I mention this is the first time I've worked with epoxy? Hopefully I didn't just glue those panels to the floor and the plastic actually releases.

About those butt blocks, the plans say 8" wide, then don't give a length. I cut the bottom ones a bit back from the outside chine and the side blocks a few inches down to make room for an inwhale. I'm hoping that works out for me as I can't see how the side/bottom joint could stay true if the blocks run into each other.

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:02 pm
by selever
Cool. I'll watch! :-)

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:45 pm
by Corvidae
Well I managed to get my first big mistake out of the way... You can't tell, but in that third pic, the side panel on the right, is facing the opposite direction from the one on the left. Meaning the butt block for that one is on the wrong side of the plywood.

Since I figured worst case scenario is to cut a new side out of my last sheet of 6mm, I figured I may as well attempt to fix it using the electric hand planer of doom. Which is usually only good for doing horrible things to doors. Amazingly however, I was able to peel off the butt block about a quarter of a layer of ply per pass. When I got most way though the last ply, the circular sander cleaned up the rest.

I learned a few things in the process. First off, the French make really good plywood. There were no gaps in lamination or material at all, in any of the layers. Okoume is worth the cost. Secondly, the butt block is the entirety of the strength in that joint. Once it was taken down to just the epoxy between the two butts of wood, the joint bent under the weight of the wood. There will definitely be a layer of glass going all around every side of that seam and a small fillet/tape going on the butt blocks.

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:48 am
by tech_support
There will definitely be a layer of glass going all around every side of that seam
not necessary, but it will keep the joint from telegraphing through the paint over time
a small fillet/tape going on the butt blocks.
definitely not necessary! You can bevel back the edges of the butt block and that will make nice smooth transition

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:44 pm
by Corvidae
So the new butt block is cured and on the right side of the plywood for a change. :D
A little survey of the damage:
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So now the sides are cured and ready to go:
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I would have already stitched them up, except I'm trying to figure out how big the hole in the center frame is supposed to be. I've got a 6 inch hole scribed right now, but it looks a bit big. It's pictured on the plans, but I haven't found a measurement or offset for it yet.

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:14 am
by Corvidae
Yup, she just barely fits:
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I should get a pic of the bottom panels tomorrow to show why I was thinking they need a fillet. The butt blocks are off by half an inch or so. Not enough that there's a problem, but enough that it's ugly. Still not sure how I want to deal with that, I'll have to see how they line up with the sides and figure out what kind of cover up job it's going to take.

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:59 pm
by Fred in Wisc
I'd just glue on a narrow strip so they look even. It'll probably be one strip on each side, one forward and the other aft. Once it's faired and painted nobody will ever see it.

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:49 am
by Corvidae
Managed to make a bit more progress and took on the bow bending of doom.
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All it took was some bending stretching, swearing, bleeding and a little time to ponder what I was doing with my life. And I managed to pull it together for the most part.
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While it does look like I got the boat straight, I'm a bit concerned about how well I managed to run the keel line. The transition in this pic, just to the left of the drill press in the background, just doesn't seem right.
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It might be intended to turn there for all I know. The stern transition is similar, but smoother, and that one is supposed to be there.

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 1:36 pm
by sds
Corvidae wrote:[...]
While it does look like I got the boat straight, I'm a bit concerned about how well I managed to run the keel line. The transition in this pic, just to the left of the drill press in the background, just doesn't seem right.
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It might be intended to turn there for all I know. The stern transition is similar, but smoother, and that one is supposed to be there.
[...]
Don't settle to soon if you are not happy. One way to get a fair boat is by not immediately cinching all of the stitches up tight. Tighten with a view to keeping a fair line at all times.

It's virtually impossible to cut a perfect panel. To get a fair boat, you just about have to have uneven gaps somewhere.

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:57 pm
by Corvidae
Yeah, I think I might have to do some adjustment on the keel line to smooth it out. It'll bug me even if it doesn't affect the boat. Might be a few days though. After all that wire work, my hands look like I lost a fight with a cat, and the twisting motion has my wrist so sore I have to drink with my off hand.

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 11:42 am
by Corvidae
Okies, had a small interruption, and a new daughter, but I did manage to get some progress on the boat.
The initial flip and stitch work went easily enough:
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Everything held together nicely with all the wires removed and frames in place. I'm deviating from the plans a bit with an arched foredeck. Not really the best idea with the way the bow is shaped, because there's multiple curves going on. It took way too much finagling and some epoxy fillet build up to get shaped right.
Aside from getting that sorted, the inside seams are taped now:
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Because of the support threads in the tape causing a railroad track texture, I did a light sanding to knock them down, then a paper thin fillet on top of that, leaving a nearly smooth surface. Also it should be easier to cover up my ametuer glass work on the edges of the tape.

Right now I'm waiting for a new coverall in the mail before I go sanding any more fiberglass. So I templated out the seats and foredeck.
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They're cut out now so I'll be cleaning up that and the daggerboard box while I wait for the mail.

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:00 am
by WouldWork
Looks great, love the bow. Good progress too, keep it up.

Cam.

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:16 am
by jacquesmm
To those who haven't seen the plans: the dimensions for the seats are included. You don't need a mock up.

The cambered deck you added looks nice. It's a lot of work but it looks good.

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:23 am
by cornelllawgroup
I love your photos and descriptions. Are you taking a break? I want to see this all the way to water. I am a total beginner building a FL14. Gonna take it slow..,,,,,,

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:55 pm
by Corvidae
Not so much taking a break as having a new born. I'm a bit cautious about working with fiberglass unless I know I won't need to handle the baby for a bit. So between that and other stacked up projects, the boat slowed down. I do have the seats rough cut out. I'm looking at options for making the back seat waterproof and still able to put things in there. Passengers are going to be intermittent, so places to stuff spare life jackets are handy.

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:28 pm
by Corvidae
Managed a few minutes of work to get the seats and fore deck epoxy coated and trimmed up.

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The deck is just tied down so I could run a flush bit router around it. After I put the first layer of gunnel around it, I'll glue it down for good, and add a bead of fillet underneath after flipping the boat over. It's too far of a reach with the boat right side up. Right behind the frame it's supported by two layers of laminated 6mm that's 8 inches wide and forms the arch. That will be the real support for the mast. So I'm hoping I won't need to tape the deck itself, since it's not really structural, and it's hard to reach the interior.

Since we already have a spare lateen rig from a Sunfish, we're going to adapt it for the V12 once the deck is glued on. It should be interesting, since I already know the mast is going to need an extension, and there's a scraping issue on the boat it's on now when the sail is stowed. So I'll have to figure out how to prevent any unwanted wood damage.

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:12 am
by Corvidae
Things are still inching along, and I might have finally figured out how to get more boat building time. The wife can't use her pottery kiln while there's a wooden boat sitting on it. So she's giving me more time to work on it. However, having gotten the foredeck mounted and rub rails wrapped and seats laid in, I'm about tired of working the inside of the boat. It's time for some outer hull work. Besides, having the boat up on saw horses made it nearly impossible to fair out around the daggerboard very well. It needs to be down on the floor or I need a trapeze or somethin.

I'm happy with the final shape of the foredeck, a bit disappointed with the meranti veneer I picked up for edging it out.
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A light touch of the sander peeled off the top layer, so it's sanded down to the filler wood, which appears to be pine. It's not a total loss, it's just there to give a fair transition from the foredeck to the rub rail, and I was pretty sure it would have to be painted regardless. Still just a bit annoying.

Anyway, we got it out in the sunlight so my cat could get a better look at it. And I've been informed it floats well on grass.
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I'm very impressed with how stiff the boat is at this point, given the bottom has no glass on it at all. I'm able to walk around in it on the grass with very little flex and no worrisome wood noises. I do think it's going to be a bit heavier than planned though. I'll have to see how that turns out, especially since we're going to put a layer of glass cloth on the bottom.

However, after further testing, it capsized and we were forced to return it to dry dock.
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So now I can get to work on the bottom for a while. I think I'll need to rig up a shorter sawhorse system though. It's too high and not stable enough for vigorous sanding.

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:22 pm
by pee wee
That's looking really good, nice fair curves.

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:19 pm
by Laszlo
Corvidae wrote:...So I'm hoping I won't need to tape the deck itself, since it's not really structural, and it's hard to reach the interior.
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Put your tools on the ends of long sticks and it's easy. The putty knives are used to make the fillet (rounded one to fillet, flat one to clean up). The brush is used to apply the glass tape.

The tape is rolled up and dipped into epoxy to wet it out. Then, you put it on the fillet and use the brush on the stick to unroll it. Brush away from yourself and lift the brush before you pull it back.

It's much easier than it sounds and really works. That's how I taped the deck onto my kayak, and that's a looooong reach.

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BTW, nice looking V12 so far. You'll have a blast with it. I'm still having fun with mine after all these years.

Laszlo

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:22 pm
by Cracker Larry
That's a beautiful kayak Laszlo 8)

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:17 am
by Corvidae
Wow, fantastic looking kayak. I'm not sure about tools on a stick though. I make a huge mess with the tools in my hands. We'll see if it comes to that, I used up some epoxy in there last night as I was taping the bottom, and it wasn't too hard to reach most of it.

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:19 pm
by Corvidae
Getting a lot closer on this build so I thought I should get some updates up here. Taping up the bottom went pretty smoothly, I ended up doing the transom last, probably should have been first, but I don't think it really matters by the time everything is built up.

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Right about here should be a picture of the boat covered in 3.5oz per yard eglass. Great stuff, disappears like it's not even there once it's wetted out. I'll be putting some over the bits of transom that are going to be bright as well.

Of course all that tape required ridiculous amounts of fairing:
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At least it does if you're as clueless about fairing as I am. Besides all that fairing gave me the quality sanding time that I've been lacking in my life. Or at least sanding time is now a significant portion of my lifespan, and I'd like to rationalize it was worth it.
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Which brings us to where we are now, trying out a graphite coat for the bottom.
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For the daggerboard case I used a pour method to get a glassy smooth graphite coat. For the bottom I'm using a foam roller, and honestly a bit disappointed. Tipping didn't seem help at all, the heat gun took out bubbles, but did nothing for the texture. I did add just a touch of microballon to this coat since I wanted it to fill in a few scratches from sanding, but there's no silica, so the mix flowed very well still. And yet the nap did not want to lay down. I'm wondering if maybe I used too much graphite? I used half a tablespoon per ounce.

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:43 pm
by terrulian
I'm building a very similar boat, the V10, although without the sailing option.
The graphite coat seems to be something almost all of us have trouble with, but as Joel pointed out it is not a topcoat and not formulated to have a finished look. I know I wasn't happy with mine, even after carefully following Cracker Larry's method, but I've moved on. The build looks great, nice work :D. I'll be looking forward to your progress so please post updates.

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:34 am
by Corvidae
I think I found the problem with the finish. I sanded out the fairing with 50 and 60 grit paper, because I was shaping more than sanding. I hit it with 120 grit before the second coat and the difference was immediately obvious.

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Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:57 pm
by ks8
Stealth V12? V12/ST 8)

Black topsides will sure get hot in Pompano Beach. Are you painting the topsides? :)

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 4:39 pm
by Corvidae
Topside is going to be mainly halyard white with spar varnish on the rails. The bottom matches the black sail in the background. I have some red too, but we haven't figured where if any of it we're going to use. Possibly some trim work on the deck, or a stencil of this:
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That's the flag that it will be flying, so either a copy of it, or something else in a similar style.

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 10:58 pm
by Corvidae
So I've flipped the boat yet again to finish up the top, and quickly discovered that epoxy pigment sucks. After having the sticker shock of anti-fouling bottom paint (yeah I know I don't need it) I decided I'd just use some pigment to UV protect the top coat of epoxy and call it a done deal. Turns out that's a horrible idea. While graphite works amazingly well for coverage, apparently other pigments...not so much. First off ratio the product gave of 1oz. pigment to 32oz. of epoxy is about useless since there's no way I'm mixing up 32oz. in one go. Secondly, it doesn't scale down linearly, which I found out after attempting to use a bunch of it. And lastly, it seems to screw up the curing process and slows it down. I say seems to, but it has been a little bit cooler this week, so it might just be weather related. The clear epoxy I covered the rub rails with cured slower than usual as well, but not as slowly as the pigmented stuff.

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It's been a challenging holiday week, but I think the end, and splash time, is in sight. Everything should be cured enough for a quick sand and coverage with some marine top side paint and spar varnish this week. The daggerboard and rudder are just about done as well.

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 11:18 pm
by terrulian
What colors are the topsides and inside?
I'm using a flag blue on the topsides, which is a very dark blue, and the inside will be an off-white. Looks like we have similar taste.

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 10:36 am
by ks8
Check the application notes on whatever topsides paint and finish system you are using. Some *require* at least a week of cure in specific environmental conditions, before launching, while others might be launched the next day. You've come this far.... :D

The white pigments for epoxy need several coats for coverage, from what I've read here. I haven't used it myself. You might consider asking a specific question about it in the questions and support area. Give the name brand pigment and the epoxy brand you are blending it into in the posting. Also, feel free to ask the questions first on any final *finish* issues. Many are here regularly and are ready to help, possibly having used that pigment and your finishing system, while I haven't and might not pop in for another week. Have a happy and safe New Year. :)

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:04 am
by terrulian
Epoxy with pigment makes a pretty bad topcoat, is my experience. It's fine on the inside of things that don't need a finished look and won't be seeing any sunshine. But I'm not an expert.

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:07 am
by jacquesmm
You are correct. Pigmented resins are fine for the inside of closed compartments. It is not a pretty finish and the resin is sensitive to UV's.

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:21 am
by Corvidae
What colors are the topsides and inside?
It's all Halyard white liquid epoxy pigment. Yeah, it looks like multiple shades, but where it didn't bleed through from dark wood, it's a combination of off white like it should be and some spots where it decided it wanted to be a brighter white after tipping. The mix ratio is pretty sensitive and I had to add a lot more than recommended to get any coverage.

At this point, everything has plenty of epoxy coverage other than the rails where I want another coat before the varnish goes on. I figure a quick run of 100 grit will get a good surface for a top coat paint to adhere to. The only place that I'll probably use the pigment again is going to be the deck floor. I want to intentionally repeat the texture 'problem' I had on the outside to use as a friction surface. The problem I had was that I used a 3/8 roller instead of foam (thought tipping would remove the nap, boy was I wrong) and a bit too much filler over a rough sanding. Ugly for an outside, but should be the perfect texture for the deck. It was a good grip without being scratchy.

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:51 pm
by ks8
Depending on topsides paint, 120 grit may be more than enough without going to 100. There is a concern if your white pigment has teflon in it. If yes, I'd put another clear or two of epoxy (neat . no pigment), then 120 that, and then put some UV topcoat on that, even if its clear. Clear epoxy over tinted will change the color again, but no UV protection on a deck is not a good idea. Graphite in epoxy on a boat bottom seems to be protected enough, by usage reports here, but a deck gets blasted with sun (in Pompano Beach!). Get some UV topcoat over that tinted epoxy on the decks and exposed interior, unless its in a *locker*. Or better, two or three coats of topsides white of some shade, with UV protection, then clear if you want. My bare epoxy primer on my seat tops held up because I garaged or covered it when not actually out on the water. I do not recommend leaving bare epoxy primer, or white pigmented epoxy, unprotected, on seat tops, decks or exposed interior. It needs UV paint too, soon. I may need to prime again before painting my seat tops. Get that white epoxy protected. :)

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:18 am
by Corvidae
Since I was going to be sanding anyway I faired out some spots where tape weave or seams were still showing through a bit. The fairing shows through the first coat, but it's obvious the second coat will complete the coverage nicely. And all the same color!

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Also the guy I'm building it for mentioned an outboard, so I added in the transom knees just in case.

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:54 pm
by Corvidae
It's a boat! Ok, I should have done a few more in progress pics along the way. All in all though I'm happy with the results, and just as importantly so is the guy that bought the boat. So here's the last bits of the process:

All the clear wood is under 2 coats of epoxy and 3 coats of UV spar varnish. Sanded to 150 between epoxy coats and first varnish coat, then upped to 220 for the last couple coats.
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A few days ago we did the fitting of the sail and attached almost all of our cleats. Because what project is complete without multiple trips to the hardware store at the last minute...
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After that I whipped up the worst possible axe handle tiller. We also installed the waterproof port in the rear seat.
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And that brings us to Launch day! :D
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She sails like a dream, tacks with ease, and runs into the wind with no problem and a bit of gusto.
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Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:13 pm
by gtcoupe
Beautiful work and I absolutely LOVE the skull and crossbones on the sail! :lol:

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 5:42 pm
by terrulian
Completely cool. Great work!! :D
I'm astounded at the speed it came together. I'm not even rigging it to sail and I'm months away from launch at the speed I'm going. If you have more pictures, please post.
One question: On the transom you have paint framing a bright panel. Did you put the varnish over both or stop at the paint?

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:28 pm
by Corvidae
On the back of the transom I varnished past the edge line that I wanted, then put a tape line on the dried varnish and painted back to that. As a method it worked fine. We're debating on painting over it though, either blacking out the back completely or making it a white panel with some sort of graphic or text.

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:39 pm
by terrulian
Thanks...it sure looks good. I have a more complicated plan but I think I will reconsider.
Very impressive build, particularly with a new baby, if I remember, in the middle of it all? I don't have any excuses like that.
I wasn't able to get okoume around here and had a hell of a time with the bow as meranti wasn't very cooperative. You seem to have gotten it done without a problem.

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:52 pm
by jacquesmm
Bravo!
Very good looking. Nice sail, not as on the plans but that is what individual boat building is about: you have it your way.

Re: Learning to build a boat V12 build

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:18 am
by Corvidae
I lucked out with my location on the wood. Fort Lauderdale has a lot of boat building and repair in the area, so there's a few local suppliers down here that have been mostly beaten into submission by the typical yacht owners we have in the area.

And thanks Jacques, the sail made this a bit easier for a first time builder. It's straight off a Snark except we used 2" emt to get a taller mast. It's slightly larger than the sprit rig in the plans, the daggerboard is the plan size though. Which makes it a bit larger than the one the Snark used. The first impression is that it's about the same speed as a Snark, but it turns and points better. We didn't weigh it, however it's just barely too heavy to lift for one person. Two people can handle it easily. Which is all just a bonus on top of holding more people, while staying dry.