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FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:46 pm
by joe2700
I'm starting my fast skiff 17 build in Massachusetts today. Plan is for a center console, and sheer raised 8". I was planning on 6" but pictures of steve292's look good so why not go with that. Aside from the raised sheer I hope to stick to the plans pretty closely, the only exception being my intent to put a thin coat of glass on all exposed wood, even where not called for in the plan.

I've picked up 9 sheets of 1/4 okume and 6 sheets of 3/8 plus a few tools and consumables now. I also got a sample kit of the system 3 silvertip line of products which I'll play with this weekend. Next week I'll try to figure out of much I need of all my glass and epoxy products and get an order in for the silvertip stuff if I like it, or maybe west system which I've used previously otherwise.

I just finished organizing the shop and getting the larger plan sheets printed. Going to start drawing the frames and molds now. I intend to document the build pretty well, including time and cost. I've failed on that intention with other projects I've done but lets see if I can do better this time. I'll mostly be working on weekends(and not every weekend) so I'll try to get a post up at least once each weekend I can work.

Hoping to get all the parts cut out and the frames assembled on the strongback this weekend so time to get going.

One questions I already have for the raised sheer. I'll raise the transom by the 8" and cut ~14" bulwarks. I also need to raise both clamping boards inserts by 8" correct?

Joe

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 5:50 pm
by Fuzz
Welcome Joe,
This should be a fun build to watch. As far as epoxy I have used a number of different brands. System3 and Marine epoxy are my two favourite. For most of what I do I can not see much difference between them. If you are building in foam JM says to use the System3 but for all other uses Marine Epoxy is just fine. I prefer both of them to West System as I do not think the 5-1 mix is as forgiving.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 6:09 pm
by joe2700
Ok another question. For the panels that you make 2 copies of the plans say to cut one and use it as a pattern for the second. I'm planning on attaching 2 pieces of plywood together with a few screws and cutting both sets in one pass. Is this a bad idea for some reason?

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 6:24 pm
by Jeff
Joe2700, Welcome to the Forum and I very much look forward to watching your build. I can assist with products but prefer others provide you the build guidance as they have the experience to steer you in the best direction!! Again, welcome and we will enjoy your build of the very popular FS17!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:45 pm
by joe2700
Thanks Fuzz, I've never had a problem with mixing the west system 5-1 using the calibrated pumps hand pumps. I'm considering moving to the system 3 silvertip line because it's blush free, and I'd be using all the premixed adhesives and putties. The consistency and ease of use over mixing fillers myself is appealing, but I did want to try them out first.

I suppose if I don't like the the premixed stuff I could check out marine epoxy over the west, especially if that is also blush free,

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:40 pm
by seaslug
Hi Joe, and welcome to the forum. Cutting your panels as you described is the way to go as long as you're sure the layout is correct. Otherwise you screw up 2 panels instead of just 1.... I've worked with West System for over 20 years and it's a great product, but you'll love the Silver Tip or Marine epoxy. I too have no problem with the West mix ratio, so that isn't a deciding factor for me. My problem was in trying to cut costs, I started with Silver Tip, than switched to Marine Epoxy, and in a pinch when I would run out, pick up some West locally. Problem being, I'm always in a hurry with everything I do, so any delay having to wait for a full cure before proceeding with a different epoxy just about killed me. I have no patience for waiting, and it drove me crazy. I personally think the Quick Fair and EZ Fillet are fantastic to work with, the consistency perfect for their purpose, and with the 2 part glue, if I wanted it a little thicker, used some West 406. I also used a few tubs of West 410 fairing filler because I didn't order enough Silver Tip filler. With glassing all surfaces as you described, the added raised sheer, and if you plan on a nicely faired bilge etc. I'd start with 12 gallons of epoxy minimum. I'm comparing the FS17 to my build of the FS18 low sheer, a smaller boat, and I used about 9.5 gallons, and I'm currently close to finishing the FS14 Low Sheer, and I've probably used 9 gallons. If I were to start the FS17 I would just order all Silver tip products and get the 15 gallon kit. No running out, no delays, and all the same formula. Hey, it's a boat after all, and it's only money, so just go for it. Looking forward to following your build. Good luck, and have some fun. Mike

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:43 pm
by Fuzz
Solid advise from Seaslug. He knows what he is doing, and as seen at this years meet, he builds a really nice boat.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:04 am
by joe2700
Thanks seaslug, I was already planning on figuring out what I need then adding a fudge factor and trying to buy more than I could possibly need to avoid running out mid way. Like you say the time is the killer when that happens. I think the 15 gallons that you suggest is in the ballpark of what I was looking at. While it's not cheap stuff I'd rather have extra than run out, I can always find another project for it. Glad to hear you had a good experienced with the premixed stuff.

Joe

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 8:05 am
by Rmarsh
Welcome Joe: Nice to see another builder from around this area getting started. I'm in southeast MA, and completed a C 17 center console a few years ago. Let me know if you would be interested in seeing it sometime, although it's a different design there are a lot of similarities.
Where do you intend to use your FS 17 when complete? I will be following your build with interest, and wish you good luck with your build.

Bob Marshall

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:51 am
by jacquesmm
Watch out with that clamping board and transom: if you raise it, the prop will not reach the water!!!
The clamping board height must match the outboard shaft length.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:53 am
by topwater
I used Silver tip products exclusively on my build , good stuff.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:35 am
by remedy32
Hi Joe,

A little late in adding a few thoughts but do hope they help.

When I built my FS17 I was up in the air about how much to raise the sheer. I initially built the transom 4" higher than plan and assembled the basic big panels of the boat. The height of the clamping area has to be in line with the OB shaft length as JM pointed out. It looked like this....Image.
I cut an 8" bulwark extension with the plan to overlay by 50%. I realized as I looked a the hull that my biggest concern was to raise the sheer more toward the bow. I decided to "rock" the extension panel so that the freeboard was raised about 3" at the transom and about 5" at the bow. You can see it here....Image

The transom was trimmed to match the sides after the hull was flipped. BTW, there's no need to carry the full layers of ply all the way to the top of the transom like I did. My dumb mistake just adds weight.

Just to add that if your travels take you into eastern Connecticut you're welcome to have a look at my boat for reference. Good luck and enjoy the project.

Bill

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:45 am
by joe2700
Ok so for the transom I need to raise both ends to match the raised sheer but keep the middle the correct height for the shaft length which makes sense. Can I leave the clamping boards exactly as designed through? I had assumed the ends of those would need to be raised to match the transom. I can't quite picture how it would look or work if they stopped short of the transom on the inside.

I'd love to save the weight and plywood if I can keep those smaller though.

Bob - I'm building the boat on the Cape at parents house and will be mostly using it out there. One of the advantages of the boat for me was the light weight though, so I can tow it behind my car without issue. I plan to explore around Boston which is where I live more that I have been able to in the past.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:47 am
by jacquesmm
That is the correct way to do it, thank you for posting those pictures. I don't have the plans in front of me but I think they show such an optional bulwark about 6" high. You can make it higher or lower.
Keep in mind that a higher freeboard will raise the VCG and the boat will be less stable. The boat will also be more sensitive to wind. The boat will be heavier. Since most want to raise the freeboard for more "safety", the result may be the opposite of what they intend to achieve.
A 6" higher side is the maximum I would raise it. It put the rail at about the same height than in the Simmons Sea Skiff which I find very high.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:23 pm
by joe2700
Thanks Jacques,

It's really a comfort thing not a safety thing. As far as not sinking or swamping I trust it's optimal as designed but I prefer to be a bit more "in" the boat when not driving for the sake of wind and spray. Just a personal preference. I'll be going with either 6" or 8" but I understand you don't recommend more than 6". I also considered raising it that much at the bow but less at the stern but I'm not sure I really want to take on altering the lines in that way so I probably won't.

I want to clear up what everyone is saying about the clamping board.
Imgur Album
The black lines are the transom and clamping board as drawn in the plans. Since I'm raising the sheer I know I need to cut the transom taller at the sides as shown with the blue line. I thought I needed to make the same change to the clamping boards to match the transom as shown in red. It sounds like people are saying that isn't necessary and would just add weight. If that is the case and only the transom itself needs to be raised couldn't I cut the clamping boards straight across as shown in blue instead of cutting curves that no longer line up with the transom?

I think it would look better to be straight across if it won't rise to the full height of the transom anyway. Thoughts?

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:45 pm
by jacquesmm
That is the way to do it: the clamping board has to stay at the same level than in the original design.
Your sides will match the sides but for the top, you can do what you want, straight or rounded.

The building notes show how to raise the side with a bulwark, there are couple of drawings.
In this case, a bulwark is panel added to the top of the side, the drawings are clear and show as an example, a 6" panel.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:03 pm
by joe2700
Yea other than this one question I found the instructions for adding the bulwark totally clear and will be doing it as you describe.

Bill - I've been reading through the FS17 build threads one at a time and just got through yours. I'm now considering using the bulwark to prevent the bow droop, I am in the northeast after all. Perhaps I'll go with 5 or 6 inches raised side for most of the length but cut it so it continues to rise at the bow. I think I might be happy with a slightly shorter bulwark if I make that change and I do prefer that look.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:48 pm
by remedy32
Joe-Like I said, I found the added freeboard of about 5" at the bow to be just about right. Making the entire side taller would also make it a bit more difficult to get on and off. This boat is so light and draws do little water that it begs go into the skinny water areas and beach her for a swim or lunch. To avoid the bow droop it's important to get the temporary bow mold right. This pulls the top of the bow aft spreading the sides in the area about 2' back. If I did it again I'd make sure that I was completely happy before decking the bow area. I'd also put a spreader in across the top in that 2' area to make sure that the sides don"t push IN which exaggerates to drooped look. The hull has a lot of flare in this area and maintaining that flare creates a better looking profile view IMO. My preferred sheer would be something close the this Eastern 18, a personal favorite.
Image

Bill

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 3:52 pm
by joe2700
Got cut off a day early last weekend unfortunately but back at in now. Created a album of my progress so far.
Imgur Album
Taking a late lunch now. Goal is to get all the 3/8" panels drawn and cut today plus draw the molds on mdf. Then tomorrow cut and assemble the molds.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:55 pm
by joe2700
Just finished adjusting transom measurements for the raised sheer and am going to cut it and the clamping boards. Going to the the clamping boards straight across at the top and bottom as mentioned earlier.

I see it marked as 10 7/8" on the drawing but I could make it go down to the baseline without using extra wood since I'm not matching the shape of the transom at the top. If I do that should I go all the way to the baseline or do I need to leave a small gap for any parts to fit in?

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:06 pm
by jacquesmm
Yes, you can have the clamping board go all the way down.
The goal was to save weight. If you don't mind a couple extra lbs, cut it that way.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:23 pm
by joe2700
Yea I figure it will about even out with not having the top parts of the clamping board so I went for it. I have the transom and one clamping board cut now. Modified the transom for a 6" raised sheer.
Imgur Album

FS 17 - Raised Sheer - Weekend update

Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:45 pm
by joe2700
Spent about a day and a half this past weekend and got the rest of the okume cut out other than the bulwark and a few small bits I'll cut as they are needed. Also drew all the molds onto 3/4 MDF and completed my test panel for the silvertip products. Next weekend to work will be 3 days at Christmas where I hope to end up with a boat shaped thing in the garage.

I need to order my epoxy this week. I did like the silvertip products and will go with that system. Just need to figure out how much I'll need of each product and assuming I purchase from here as planned I need to compare buying individual products v. the kits plus some extra v. 2 kits. I know one kit won't do it.

Few Pics:
Imgur Album

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:30 pm
by Jeff
Joe2700, take a serious look at the System Three SilverTip kits that we offer, they are normally best value and include shipping. Happy to assist you or discuss any options. You can drop me a mail at: jeff@e-boat.net or just call me 772.770.1225. Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:00 am
by joe2700
Thanks Jeff, as soon as I estimate how much I'll need of everything I'll be in touch about getting an order together.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:30 am
by Fuzz
Joe, Good luck with the FS-17. I am interested to see how a raised sheer one turns out.
As for the System3 if it was me I would order extra unless you are close enough to get it quickly. The nice thing about System3 is I know it lasts for a long time. I have an OD-18 built out of 20 year old System3 and so far no problems :D

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:59 pm
by cape man
There's a really good complete thread on one that was built around the same time as I was working on my boat. I actually had a chance to see it in person on a trip to the UK. Nice boat, and a great guy who I'm sure would answer any questions you might have.

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?t=13968

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:01 pm
by joe2700
I read through that thread before even purchasing the plans capeman, it is a great one. Helped with my decision to go raised sheer.

I got my epoxy order in at just about double the FS17 kit plus a few extras like system three yacht primer. Hopefully won't have to worry about running out during the build at all now. According to the shipping notice I have about 250 lbs of epoxy products on their way. I should have the Christmas and New years long weekends coming up to get some work done.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:12 pm
by jacquesmm
You got a good deal. Reid gave you a great customized quote and thank you for the order.
Plus, it's a nice design, you"ll like her.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:17 pm
by Jeff
Joe2700, thank you very much for your order today!!! It is on its way to you!! Really looking forward to watching your build!! Happy holidays and enjoy the build!!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:23 am
by joe2700
Alright, got a good day of work in. Added a gallery with descriptions of everything I did. Time for a shower.
Imgur Album
Tomorrow I'll glass the other side of the side panel seams and start putting the strongback and molds together.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:52 am
by topwater
Good start , what's in the 5 gal jug :?:

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 8:30 am
by Jeff
Joe2700, nice start!!! Topwater, 5 gallon jug of System Three SilverTip Resin!!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:36 am
by topwater
Jeff that would have come in handy when i ordered the 30 gallons i used on my boat :wink:
Sorry for the hijack Joe.... Build on :!:

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:42 am
by peter-curacao
topwater wrote:Jeff that would have come in handy when i ordered the 30 gallons i used on my boat :wink:
Sorry for the hijack Joe.... Build on :!:
Don't know I think the gallon packages are a lot easier to work with, probably more shipping, can't remember how many boxes I had, still I would prefer the gallon packages, Do they give package options now?

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 11:07 am
by joe2700
With the 5 gallon jug I plan to just use it to keep refilling the 1 gallon jug I put a pump in. As long as you have 1 of the single gallon bottles I don't think the big one is a problem. If it was just the 5 gallon, it would be unwieldy.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:17 pm
by Jeff
Joe2700, perfect!! We never send a five gallon container unless there is also a one gallon container to work from!!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:43 pm
by joe2700
An album of some progress from today:
Imgur Album
I have the garage cooking up to about 90 before I leave for dinner, hoping the bottoms are dry enough to flip and do the other sides when I get home. Also maybe that will get the gelmagic from yesterday to finally finish curing, the stuff takes much longer than the epoxy, it's still gummy.

The temp last night dropped as low as 50 but no lower, which is right at the minimum for the gelmagic. It cured enough to get the transom up off the floor which might help, since the floor is cooler.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 5:30 pm
by willg
I have used a lot of Gel Magic on my build and really like it. I have used the slow hardener but if I were to start over I'd go with the regular. Waiting for the slow to set up has delayed my progress a few times. Enjoy your build!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 5:37 pm
by joe2700
willg wrote:I have used a lot of Gel Magic on my build and really like it. I have used the slow hardener but if I were to start over I'd go with the regular. Waiting for the slow to set up has delayed my progress a few times. Enjoy your build!
Is there fast and slow gelmagic hardener or are you talking about the laminating resin? I was wondering because the gel magic I got has a slow sticker on it but there was no fast option when I bought it and I can't find any mention of speeds on the system 3 website.

I am using the fast laminating resin, not a hard choice up here. I can just open the door if I need more working time.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 5:49 pm
by willg
The description of Gel Magic in the bateau store mentions slow and regular hardeners, but I don't know if the regular is an option. I've gotten two orders of GM so far from bateau and never looked into the regular. I don't see it on the System Three site either, so maybe it's not produced anymore.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 5:52 pm
by Jeff
Joe2700/Willg, I am only aware of a Systems Three GelMagic slow hardener, no regular or fast. Is there a new product that I have missed? Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:16 pm
by joe2700
Jeff, I'm only aware of one hardener as well, it's just interesting that it's called out as slow since the quickfair and ezfillet don't have a speed listed at all. I do wish there was a fast hardener, since it hardens much slower than the other silvertip products.

Why it's called slow I don't know.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 8:16 am
by Browndog
Has to do with the chemistry. The "slow" hardener gives more working time which can be an advantage when using it as a glue. Also tends to make a "tougher" finished polymer. Compare that to the other products like quick fair which doesn't need to be tough as it is mainly for cosmetic filling and speed of cure is an advantage for sanding as the resin is a little more "brittle".

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:00 am
by Jeff
Guys, I just checked and I can only buy GelMagic with a "slow" hardener, no options!! System Three is coming out with a new GelMagic product, it is now going to come in a semi-paste type product much like the Quick Fair or Easy Fillet products!! Hope to have it in January!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:10 pm
by joe2700
Makes sense browndog, like the strongest epoxy they make has to be post cured at a higher temp, and the gelmagic can be for added strength. I actually plan to post cure my boat a bit since I'm building in and out of the acceptable temp range. I'll try to get it nice and hot at a few stages to be sure everything i finished curing.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 2:16 pm
by willg
Jeff wrote:Guys, I just checked and I can only buy GelMagic with a "slow" hardener, no options!! System Three is coming out with a new GelMagic product, it is now going to come in a semi-paste type product much like the Quick Fair or Easy Fillet products!! Hope to have it in January!! Jeff

I'm OK with that. Though I'd like a faster cure I like the GM so much I will keep using it whenever I see the need. Maybe this quote from the bateau page on GM is based on old info: "Two hardeners are available: Regular and Slow (for extra-long working time). "

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:01 pm
by joe2700
Imgur Album
I finished tracing the bulwarks from the sides and I'm waiting for the joints in the bulwarks to finish curing. I got my butt joints down to 25ml of mixed epoxy per foot of seam(1 side) using the 6 inch biax tape. Seems about right to me, my earlier joints were definitely epoxy heavy. Might see If I can get down to closer to 20ml/foot on initial application.

Once those finish curing I can put them aside and start building the mold on the strongbacks. While I wait a few questions...

The plans for the the raised sheer say "Build the hull and epoxy glue the bulwarks to the hull sides with the hull right side up, after installation of the sole." but the plans also have you install the rubrail as you finish the outside before flipping, saying "Install the rubrail. It is important to install the rubrail before turning the hull over."

I was assuming I would install the rubrail along the top of the bulwark not the top of the normal side panels so when should I install the rub rail?

Also I can't find a mention of the waterline on the plans for painting purposes. Are people using the baseline or an offset from the baseline?

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:26 pm
by jacquesmm
Install the rubrail along the sheer, not on the lower panel.
You can tunr the boat over without the rubrail, just be careful.

Yes, the waterline is parallel to the baseline. See the specs and set the draft accordingly: the plans say that the designed waterline is at a draft of 7". Draw the line at 7".

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:21 pm
by joe2700
Thanks Jacques,
jacquesmm wrote: Yes, the waterline is parallel to the baseline. See the specs and set the draft accordingly: the plans say that the designed waterline is at a draft of 7". Draw the line at 7".
I see that's in the study plans not the pdf plans, I'll check those as well from now on. It looks like the deepest mold is 7.25" below the baseline, add a quarter inch for plywood and that would put the draft as 7.5" below the baseline if we ignore fiberglass. So If I use the 7" draft the waterline is 0.5" below the baseline. Is my math right there?

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:19 pm
by jacquesmm
The draft of 7" is for the designed displacement.
See this about drawing the waterline:
http://bateau2.com/howto/sg101_10.php
and draw that line 7" above the bottom.

Paint a 2" thick waterline from 6" to 8" and you don't have to worry about a 1/4" measurement.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:33 pm
by joe2700
Since this is a v bottom boat the 7" you are referencing is the deepest part of the boat right? So instead of measuring 7" up from the chine as shown in that link I'll be measuring 7" from the deepest part of the hull. In the end I won't be worrying about half an inch but I want to at least understand where I should be measuring from. It sounds like just under the baseline should do the trick which makes sense since the baseline is the bottom of the sole and the sole should be just above the water at max displacement.

I plan to use a laser to mark it out right after I finish fairing the bottom so measuring from the baseline will be easier to me. I'll be in the ballpark of an half an inch below the baseline.

Still need to figure out if I want a bootstripe and all that, but I have decided on dark red sides, black bottom paint, and light light gray for the interior and nonskid. Paint brand TBD after I prime with the system 3 primer I got with my order. I'm thinking TotalBoat Spartan for the bottom but not sure on the topside paint, still need to do some research.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:01 pm
by jacquesmm
Yes, draft is from the deepest part of the hull. Note that I say hull, not the optional skeg.

Now, many builders do not paint a boot line. Others paint one that follows the chine and then, many launch the boat, load and use ti for a while then paint a waterline based on how the boat floats.
As the designer, I can only guess how people will load the boat. Your engine may be heavier than what I used, the gas tank may be different and in another location, you may have a different crew etc.
If it was my boat, I would paint a waterline at 7" and see how she floats.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:47 am
by joe2700
Alright, made some more progress.

I used a router and some sandpaper to make both side panels and both bulwarks exactly the same shape, and smooth the curves out. I did this for these because the lines will be visible in the final boat. I left the other panels as cut since the seams will be totally covered up, so 1/8" discrepancies shouldn't be a problem. They aren't perfect but I think they will do. I also finished building the strongback.

Here is a gallery of my recent progress:
Imgur Album
Also a question. One of my rolls of biax tape came wet for some reason. It didn't seem to be drying out so I unwrapped it, only to find it's different from the other 4 rolls.
Imgur Album
There's way more of the threads going along the tape instead of at 45s. Is there something wrong with this roll or is it ok? The other 4 rolls look like the one on the left.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:45 am
by Jeff
Joe2700, not sure what happened here but call me on Monday and I will send you a new roll!! Sorry about that and I will look at the remaining stock!! Again, sorry but I will replace immediately!! Happy New Year, Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:04 pm
by Fuzz
Are those rolls two different weights? In a kit there might be some 6oz and some 12oz called for.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:51 pm
by joe2700
No problem Jeff thanks for the quick response. I won't need the 5th roll for a long long time.
Fuzz wrote:Are those rolls two different weights? In a kit there might be some 6oz and some 12oz called for.
The odd thing is that it looks like there is more of the binder as opposed to more of the glass that's at 45s. I wasn't sure if that's just what the 12oz looks like though, that's why I asked. You couldn't tell anything was different until you took the wrap off.

You comment did cause me to look at the weights again though, and it seems there are some discrepancies in the weight of the tape called for.
- The BOM in the plans calls for Fiberglass tape biaxial 45/45 6 oz. 12" wide
- The lamination schedule calls for biaxial tape 12 oz. 45/45 6"
- The marine epoxy kit for fs17 includes Biaxial tape 12 oz. 6" wide
- The silvertip kit for fs17 includes 6 oz. Biaxial tape 6" wide

So what weight and width of biaxial tape should I be using for an FS 17?

Once we figure that out I'll know if I should just call Jeff about the one roll Monday or if I have the wrong stuff.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:03 pm
by Jeff
Joe, Let me take a look at the BOM as some are old and should have been updated!! I will review and just call me Monday afternoon and I will have a solution!!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:10 pm
by jacquesmm
The boat was originally designed to use 6 oz. tape but many builders have used 12 oz. because they use larger engines or because they standardize the supplies. I updated the plans but forgot to change the text in the building notes.
Even with the 6 oz., with all the overlaps, the keel will have 72 oz. of glass.
If you have the choice, use 12 oz.
The kit includes 12 oz.
If you have 6 oz., use it but double the layers on the stringers.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:50 pm
by joe2700
Ok so it sounds like I can go ahead and use a single layer of 6 oz, 6" biax tape on the outside seams, followed by all the overlapping 12 oz biax cloth.

That's the only use I'll have for the tape soon(hopefully this weekend). I'll talk to Jeff Monday about the odd roll I got and the plan for the rest of the boat, doubling up or buying thicker tape or whatever.

I'll compare the roll I was asking about to the 12oz biax cloth I got to make sure it's not just the thickness that I'm seeing as different.

Ok back to the boat to install the molds on the strongback.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:50 pm
by jacquesmm
Just checked the building notes and plans. The plans say biaxial tape 12 oz. 6" wide = correct.
The kit list the same thing but there is a typo in the building notes, at the end, in the BOM:
it says
biaxial tape 6 oz. 12" wide.

That tape does not exist! The 6 and 12 are mixed up, it should be tape 12 oz. 6" wide.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:59 pm
by jacquesmm
We are posting at the same time. :)

I went back to your pictures and it looks like you got the correct tape except for one roll. That one roll looks like 6 oz., the others are 12 oz.
That is not bad, we can work with what you have.
We built a low sheer prototype here and we used 12 oz. tape everywhere except for the frames. In order to save a little bit of weight, we used 6 oz. tape around the frames.
Do the following:
- use the 12 oz. tape for the hull seams, around the transom and the stringers.
- use the 6 oz. tape for all around the frames.
- if you have any tape left, add a layer to the stringers.

Sorry for missing the tape problem, I was not aware of it. I check the "Power Boats" section at the top of the forum every day but do not always read this forum because it is titled "non-technical".

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:24 pm
by joe2700
I just compared the tape I have to the cloth I have. The tape measured 0.35mm thick and the cloth measured 0.5mm thick so I think it's definitely 6 oz tape and 12oz cloth.

That makes sense because it is exactly what I ordered. I didn't have the plans when I ordered because I was at work so I referenced the silvertip kit since I wanted everything in that kit just in higher quantities. That page called for 6oz just like the BOM does, although I see those are both typos.

Separately I have one roll that is just defective, it has the same thickness of biaxial fibers as the 6oz, but many times as much stitching. Not pressing at all, I won't be to the 5th roll for a long long time if ever, I tried to order more than I would need. Jeff and I can work that out next week, no problem what so ever.

The only pressing question, given that I have 6oz tape instead of 12oz, is if I should double the tape on the outside seams. I'll worry about the inside seams at a later date, but do hope to get the outside glassed this weekend. If the safe move is to just go ahead and put a double layer on the outside seams I'll do that.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:47 pm
by jacquesmm
Yes, correct reasoning. Two layers of 6 oz. are just as strong as 1 layer 12 oz.
No reason to stop working: put 2 layers down.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 2:30 am
by joe2700
Finished the mold, installed the stringers after I took this picture:
Imgur Album
Tomorrow I hope to lay out and stitch all the panels and get the spot welds in.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:13 pm
by joe2700
Ok got the boat planked, here are some pictures.
Imgur Album
I'm happy with the shape overall. A little tighter in places than I would have liked but it doesn't seem to be causing any bad shapes. The bow can't quite come together. Not sure if the panels are a bit short or what. I haven't decided if I should leave it that way for a more rounded bow or open the bow and use a grinder to make the bow mold pointed enough that the panels come together better.

I'm going to eat dinner then deal with the bow if I decide to, check everything over one more time, and spot weld it together. The gel magic takes so long to cure I'll use little strips of cloth and epoxy in addition to the gel magic so I can tape the seams in the morning when I doubt the gel magic will be completely cured.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:04 am
by Fuzz
Hey Joe,
For tacking the hull together are you using the wood flower glue or the system3 ez-fillet? If not that is the way to do it. And if you are using the fast hardner it will cure over night and be ready for you the next morning if your temps are above 50F. I work in 50-60F temps all the time and curing overnight does the trick for me.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:29 am
by joe2700
Fuzz,

I used the gel magic, the ez fillet is wood flour as far as I know. Just finished tacking it all together. The stuff should cure overnight if I can keep the heat up, the problem is that I can't run that open flame heater while I'm asleep so the temp was dropping down to 45-50 overnight and it was still gummy making it hard to sand. I can power through it with 40 grit on the angle grinder but it makes quite a mess if the stuff is still gummy.

Should I have used ez fillet instead of gel magic?

edit: I used the empty caulking cartridges to apply the gel magic, which did work quite well.

I have the heater running full blast until I go to bed, so hopefully everything will cure enough for me to sand and and tape tomorrow. It's about 80 and climbing in there right now.

I was concerned as I did it that on some of the joints I'd sand through the glue when I brought them to 1/2" radius. I climbed under and tacked it together from the inside with big globs of glue to help prevent that. Has that not been a problem for other people? I didn't end up using little bits of fiberglass because I realized I really need to wait for the glue to cure anyway, it would have taken forever to put on enough that I could trust them.

I did fix the bow before glueing, so that comes together nicely now.
Imgur Album

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:46 am
by topwater
I used Gel magic to glue all the panels on my boat, just tape the underside of the seams first .

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:04 am
by remedy32
This looks real good so far. My advice is to take it a bit slow at this point. Check for fairness of the bottom as it transitions from "V" to near flat from bow to stern. Fiddling a bit now with tight or loose stitches can help fairness and vastly reduce the time and material required to fair the bottom before finishing. It also pays to take a look inside and see how the panels lay down against the molds. This can serve as a good indication of the finished shape you'll create. Also remember to pull the tip of the bow (facing down right now) back tightly against the bow mold. This will have a big effect on reducing the dreaded bow droop. Finally, I had no trouble with the spot welds letting go during the rounding. Like you I went beneath where accessible and made a small fillet but this was probable a bit of overkill. Really no need for big globs that will need to be sanded off later. Keep up the nice work.

Bill

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:24 pm
by Fuzz
I have only used the Gel-magic to glue the side upper panels to the lower panels. I did not know you could use it for the main hull glue up. If Topwater says he used it to glue up his boat then we know it works just fine :D I was thinking more about the cure time. I know fast hardner and wood flower will set up in 8-10 hours at 50-60F.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:24 pm
by joe2700
topwater wrote:I used Gel magic to glue all the panels on my boat, just tape the underside of the seams first .
Thanks topwater, you mean tape like painters tape to prevent drips not fiberglass tape right? I didn't tape under but the gel magic managed to stay in place.
remedy32 wrote:This looks real good so far. My advice is to take it a bit slow at this point. Check for fairness of the bottom as it transitions from "V" to near flat from bow to stern. Fiddling a bit now with tight or loose stitches can help fairness and vastly reduce the time and material required to fair the bottom before finishing. It also pays to take a look inside and see how the panels lay down against the molds. This can serve as a good indication of the finished shape you'll create. Also remember to pull the tip of the bow (facing down right now) back tightly against the bow mold. This will have a big effect on reducing the dreaded bow droop. Finally, I had no trouble with the spot welds letting go during the rounding. Like you I went beneath where accessible and made a small fillet but this was probable a bit of overkill. Really no need for big globs that will need to be sanded off later. Keep up the nice work.
Thanks Bill, I was happy withe the bottom being flat in the back half, only problem was that it fell off 1/4" or so the last 6" to the transom. Trying to fix that pulled the panels out of flat so I'm living with it. Like you suggest I went under the boat and made sure the panels were flat against the molds and stringers. The only gap was at b, and a brick right on top of the mold each side took care of it.

Based on what you say I'm glad I went back and put a v on the bow mold so I could pull the panels completely together. I think the profile looks ok, hard to tell upside down. Since I wan't be installing the extra side panels until the boat is upright I have a chance to play with the shape slightly if needed. I with I could have pondered and tweaked for a day or two before committing but I only have so many weekends I can go work on the boat so I had to get on with it.

My "big globs" should still be smaller than the fillet radius on the inside so shouldn't need to sand them, just a big more than putting glue only between the sheets. Kind of a mini fillet like you.
Fuzz wrote:I have only used the Gel-magic to glue the side upper panels to the lower panels. I did not know you could use it for the main hull glue up. If Topwater says he used it to glue up his boat then we know it works just fine :D I was thinking more about the cure time. I know fast hardner and wood flower will set up in 8-10 hours at 50-60F.
Thanks Fuzz, Jeff and I are working on my gel magic cure time right and he is great to work with as always, we'll get it figured out no problem. If I had figured out that mine takes so long before glueing up I would have used the ez fillet just for cure time, but aside from that point gel magic seems to work well, and those empty caulk tubes they stock here worked great for applying it. I'm not sure if ez fillet is too thick for using those or not.

For putting the 1/2" radius on before taping the outside has anyone started with a 1/2" radius bit our a router or anything, or are people just sanding and eyeballing it?

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:37 pm
by Jeff
Joe, call me when you have time: 772.770.1225 Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:24 am
by topwater
Joe when i suggested tape on the back side i meant duct tape or packing tape . Just depends on how big of a gap there
was. I don't think you really need a 1/2" round over for your seams , closer to 3/8" worked well for me. I just used
a ro sander and my mark one eyeball to gage it.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:29 pm
by joe2700
With Jeff and Reid's investigatory work we finally figured out my Gel Magic problem. System 3 only advertises one hardener, which is the fast equivalent. That's what I ordered from these guys and what they ordered from System 3. They do however still make the slow hardener, which takes 16 hours at 77 degrees to become tack free instead of 3 hours. It's a special order only thing. System 3 had mistakenly mixed a few of those in with boat builder central's order, and I just happened to get those ones when I ordered from them.

It was a pretty confusing situation since the containers look the same, but after Reid got the barcodes from me, they were able to sort out what happened with system 3.

I have some much faster gel magic on it's way from system 3 now, so by the next time I can work on the boat things will cure up nice and quick. I won't have to burn so much propane heating the garage like a sauna in the middle of winter either(although that was nice sometimes). I did like applying the gel magic, very easy with the caulking gun, and it is just thick enough to stay in place upside down or vertically. Fills medium-large gaps pretty well.

One nice thing about working in winter is I can apply the products at 50 degrees or so if I need more working time, then crank the temp up to around 80 as soon as I'm done to shorten the cure time. I didn't need to do the first part with the gel magic I had so far haha.

Thanks to Jeff and Reid for working with me to figure out what was going on, it was a pretty random thing and not a mistake on their part at all. If I messed up any part of what went happened please correct me Jeff.

I'll be traveling for a bit so it will be a few weeks or a month until I can get to the boat again. It's sitting in the garage all stitched and glued right now. When I come back I'll take a good long look at everything again to make sure I'm happy with the shape then get her seams all taped up. I'd like to get the bottom glassed quickly so I can move it outside when I'm not working on it, my Mom is down her garage spot until then.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:24 pm
by Jeff
Perfect summary!! Safe travels Joe2700!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:00 pm
by joe2700
Back to work finally. Today I'll take a real good look over the shape of the hull to make sure I'm happy. I already plan to pop the aft 12 inches of the bottom off and raise it a 1/4" as thats the only low spot I remember. Once I'm completely happy with the shape I'll get to sanding the radius on the corners and cutting out tape and cloth for glassing the bottom tomorrow.

My new gel magic was here waiting for me, thanks to the boat builder central crew for working that all out for me. Has anyone noticed smoke from unmixed gel magic hardener? Mine has been smoking lightly since I opened it 30 minutes ago but I can't detect any heat being generated. It's a bit odd and I'll be keeping my eye on it for a while. Just mixed up a test batch though to confirm the normal cure time.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:32 am
by Jeff
Joe2700, how did the test batch of the GelMagic do for you? Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:46 am
by joe2700
Cured up right as expected Jeff, and the hardener even stopped smoking eventually haha. The gel magic situation is resolved!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:33 pm
by Jeff
Good Joe!! Glad this situation is fixed and I have learned that there is a "Slow" GelMagic but it has to be ordered as a special item from System Three!!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:56 pm
by steve292
cape man wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:59 pm There's a really good complete thread on one that was built around the same time as I was working on my boat. I actually had a chance to see it in person on a trip to the UK. Nice boat, and a great guy who I'm sure would answer any questions you might have.

http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?t=13968
Thanks ! I love you to...... How's things?

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:33 pm
by joe2700
Alright the bottom is glassed, here is a gallery of the work: Did it over about 30 hours(not straight) so it's all wet on wet.
Imgur Album
I only used one layer of 12oz tape along all the outside seams, thinking it was 1-12oz layer or 2-6oz layers. Checking the lamination schedule I see it calls for 2-12oz layers down the middle and around the transom. I'll do a third layer on the inside of those seams to make up for it. Need to read carefully!

12oz biaxial cloth sucks to wet out. One thing that I eventually got used to is how long it took. Dry spots that I couldn't work out would disappear on their own after a few minutes, you need to be patient with this stuff. It's also impossible to move around without messing the fibers up once you put it on a tacky surface. I kept track of my epoxy consumption but don't have it with me, I'll have to see how I did later.

Overall a few very minor bubbles but no spots that will need grinding out and redoing so that's good. The bow came out pretty neat so I'm happy with that, I think the transom is going to be a nightmare to fair. I need to take some thickness off the messy corners but don't want to sand through the structure so it's going to be lots of adding compound. Much respect for those of you who glassed the whole thing cleanly with this stuff.

I wanted to fill the weave wet on wet to get a better surface for sanding and fairing but can't come back for 2 weeks so I worked late into the night. I did find one good use for the super slow gel magic since I still have it. I mixed up a whole 3/4 gallon batch at once, and over 60 minutes used it to fill the weave without it even starting to kick off. I had about 1/3 of the mixed stuff left after scraping all the extra off, so I filled the really low parts at the bow and transom.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:14 pm
by Jeff
Joe, Nice fiberglass work and even better use of the GelMagic "slow"!!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:59 pm
by pee wee
One idea for building up the low areas in the center of the transom is to lay in a piece or two of glass, if you have any scrap left.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:36 pm
by Browndog
Looking good!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:30 pm
by Fuzz
The boat is looking good. That wood was almost too pretty to glass over.
One warning if you think 12oz biax is tough to wet out then you never want to try 1708 or even heavier. :help:

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:44 pm
by joe2700
Made some fairing progress this weekend, gallery below:
Imgur Album
A few notes.

Quickfair is great, but 1.5 gallons is nowhere near enough to get a good finish any way I can figure. Thinking either 3 or 4.5 more gallons for the entire project. Since I'm not doing a bare bones build ordering double the kit quantity seems about right for the other products. Gel magic and ez fillet will be plenty. Epoxy will be closer but should still be good.

This new Bosch 6" RO sander is amazing, best tool purchase so far. It has good power and dust extraction which is nice, but the vibration reduction is a game changer for me. I get bad numbness after about 20-30 minutes with a normal RO sander. Feel like I'm on the verge of an RSI sometimes already since I work 100% on a computer. With this sander I was able to sand for over an hour straight multiple times with no issue. I was tempted to buy the other 6" bosch since it has a faster removal mode that forces the pad to rotate and orbit, but so happy I went with this one. Really suggest it to anyone else that struggles with the vibration of sanding.

Hoping after a marathon longboarding session next time I'll just have some areas to touch up before priming, instead of a whole third coat, but we'll see.

I really hate sanding.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:23 am
by Fuzz
I am guessing here but I think the reason you are using so much quickfair is you are laying it on way too thick. As CL would say "we are not icing a cake here". After a round or two of sanding to start with a few thin coats of quickfair should be enough. I say this but to be fair I suck at getting a good finish. Maybe one of the pros will chime in.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:55 am
by joe2700
Definitely possible I'm laying it on too thick, but I don't see how you'd end up with a smooth bottom with less. The seams are higher than the middle of the panels because they have extra layers of glass. The first coat I applied didn't even completely fill this lower area. Maybe I could have applied it better and sanded less off? my second application was definitely smoother.

I just measured the thickness in the middle of one of the bottom panels and after 2 coats, one sanded I have about 0.45mm of fairing compound on top of the glass. I have it thicker on the transom and bow though, since all the glass coming together made those areas less smooth to start. With the 12 oz tape measuring 0.4mm thick without resin I don't think you could fair the bottom with a thinner coat, other than a workboat finish where you don't try to make it flat edge to edge. That's what the kit is aimed at I'm sure, as bare bones as possible.

The system 3 catalog has the following formula for fairing compound:
As a general rule, the amount of fairing compound in gallons per square foot of fairing surface area is equal to 0.623t, where t is the fairing thickness in inches.
I have my outside hull at roughly(very roughly) 170 sq feet. 1.5/170 = 0.623t so I should be getting a thickness of about 0.014163 inches or 0.36mm after using the 1.5 gallons over the whole hull. Pretty close to where I'm at actually. I would be interested to hear how much other fs17 builders used or what thickness people are putting down on any boat.

Edit: Ran the fillet formula while I had the page open, 1.5 gallons will get you 540 feet of 1/2" radius. Now that will be plenty, and it passes my personal sniff test that you would need 3-4 times as much fairing compound as fillet material.

Appendix A of this system 3 catalog on page 26 has all the formulas for how much paint, epoxy, fillet, and fairing material you will need. Very useful:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1000/ ... 1865784556

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:34 am
by Fuzz
Joe it sounds like you have done a bunch of research on fairing and have a pretty good handle on it. I know I use way too much and still can not get the quality of finish some of these guys do. Maybe one of them will chime in and help us out. In looking at your fairing tools I do not see a long board. Are you using one? They will show the highs and lows pretty quick. And they have the added benefit of giving you buff arms :lol:
Your boat is looking good and I am sure you will get where you want to be.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:44 am
by joe2700
If I had done this research ahead of time instead of afterwards I wouldn't have run out haha. I do have a longboard I made with some of the 1/4" ply. I used it a bit but since I felt like I needed more fairing compound everywhere I mostly used the RO to just knock down high spots. The next round of sanding will be much more long board.

I can't decide if I like my homemade one well enough, or if I should buy one of the real ones. They seem very overpriced, but if I didn't mention it I hate sanding, so I'll spend a few bucks to make it easier.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:36 am
by remedy32
I have my outside hull at roughly(very roughly) 170 sq feet. 1.5/170 = 0.623t so I should be getting a thickness of about 0.014163 inches or 0.36mm after using the 1.5 gallons over the whole hull. Pretty close to where I'm at actually. I would be interested to hear how much other fs17 builders used or what thickness people are putting down on any boat.
Guess it really depends on the finish you hope to achieve. I think I used about 2 gallons of various fairing mud on my FS17 build. I made no attempt to cover the entire bottom uniformly. I faired away from the seams along the chine and centerline. The slight hollow of less than 1 mm at the center of the panels has no measurable impact on a power boat IMO. I did more or less the same thing on the sides of the hull to the attached extension bulwark. Most of the mudding here was to fill the weave of the fabric. If I had run fabric all the way to the sheer I'd have used another 1/2 gallon I think. In hindsight I would definitely cover every inch of plywood (with glass) that I could next time even though it cost more material. I primed with an epoxy that was able to build 4-6 mils dry in three sprayed coats, final sanded and sprayed the LPU. Topsides looked great, in fact still do after 7 years. Epoxy graphite bottom still holding up very well and is super easy to repair when is does get scraped a bit. Sounds like your building a very nice boat, keep it up!

Bill
CT

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:18 am
by joe2700
Thanks Bill,

I'm probably just used to needing a perfect bottom from sailing which is more my thing. I've never built a sailboat for myself, but I've spent plenty of time wet sanding the bottoms with 400+ grit to make them perfectly fair.

I do plan on covering ever square inch of exposed wood with glass, even if some areas I just use 6oz woven. I used a run of the 6" tape down each side to bring the glass up higher than the line where the bulwark will go. That could be part of my quickfair usage going all the way to the original sheer.

I won't be doing a graphite bottom on mine I don't think since it will live in the water for long periods. Just bottom paint over primer is my plan. I'm under the impression you don't gain much from the graphite if you have to paint anyway.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:21 am
by pee wee
Common practice is to use a less expensive fairing filler for the first application or two, like the blended filler they sell here. Some even use wood flour/epoxy for the first application, or lay in scraps of fiberglass where they know it won't require sanding. When the real lows have been filled, then bring out the Quick Fair.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:38 am
by remedy32
I'm probably just used to needing a perfect bottom from sailing which is more my thing. I've never built a sailboat for myself, but I've spent plenty of time wet sanding the bottoms with 400+ grit to make them perfectly fair.
Ah, racing sailboats......explains a lot.

We refaired the 1983 MORC 30' Champion boat "Details" last year as part of an east coast rehab of a west coast boat. 10 gallons of sprayed Duratec fairing and endless longboard work. Wet sand and several coats of VC Offshore and FINALLY race ready. My son designs sails for a living and thankfully manages to bring together a good YOUNG group for the sanding. I just suit up and spray. Check the "Details Racing" Facebook page for a look.

https://www.facebook.com/Details-Racing ... 369450854/


I can feel your pain :lol:

Bill

BTW I'm with pee wee on first pass of mud using the blended filler available here and elsewhere. Nice $$ saving.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:30 pm
by steve292
:D nice boat, brings back loads of memories. :D

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:16 pm
by joe2700
Got another batch of quickfair and finished the second coat. Nothing much to look at, still a whole lot of kinda flat pink hull.

The fairness is still moving in the right direction but I'm not feeling like I'm doing this in a super effective way. I think I am going to try some commercial long boards with coarser paper over my homemade board. I'll also be studying up on fairing, watching some videos. I get the idea but would love to watch how some real experts work. If anyone had some fairing videos they really like send them my way.

I'll be away for a bit but traveling with a friend who is a proper boat builder, so I'll be starting to plan the interior layout spitballing with him. I'll be back to sanding in a few weeks.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:50 pm
by joe2700
Imgur Album

Got some better tools and expert advice. While more expensive than I'm willing to pay for a fairing board at $80 a board the 3M longboards are great. Much more ergonomic that the homemade ones I did or the cheap ones I bought on amazon. Luckily I am able to borrow one.

Also got advice from my friend and put a notched fairing coat on the entire hull. I only had time to sand the transom but I was able to make that almost perfectly fair. Still slow going but I finally feel like I'm making progress instead of spinning my wheels. It will take a few more days to do that over the entire hull but then I should be able to just fill in the notches and be pretty much done other than spot fixes.

Can't wait until I can prime and flip

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:53 am
by TomW1
Make sure your leaving a 1/8" round over on all the edges so that the paint will stick and not peel off the hull. Also unless your building the very basic hull design go ahead and finish painting the lower hull at least up to the chines.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:31 am
by Eric1
I'm also fairing a hull. I'll be watching how this technique works. Thanks for posting!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:34 am
by joe2700
TomW1 wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:53 am Make sure your leaving a 1/8" round over on all the edges so that the paint will stick and not peel off the hull. Also unless your building the very basic hull design go ahead and finish painting the lower hull at least up to the chines.
I'll be dealing with the edges once I'm happy with aa the surfaces. I actually planned on sharpening them, my understanding being that especially in the planning areas you wanted sharp edges. I will knock them down a touch, but I'll see if any of the paint manufacturers actually specify a corner radius.

I'll put some bottom paint on the part that it will rest on in the trailer to make life easier, but I don't want to mark the waterline until I float it once, at least that's the plan for now.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 11:49 am
by joe2700
Fairing is coming along. I'm happy with the sides and transom, still working on the bottom. I just haven't been able to put many hours into it the past few months. I'll be working on the boat much more the next few months, spending all my weekends on it around practice and regattas now that the sailing season is kicking off. I can't work on it during July and August so trying to get as much done before then as possible.

A quick update from 2 weekends ago. My strong back was built with a trailer coupler on one end (that I have a little trailer ball cart for), and hinged wheels on the other end. I was pretty skeptical about my wheels so I decided to take advantage of some good weather and try moving it before it got any heavier and before I was in a rush. As I suspected the hinged wheels fell off as it rolled out of the garage and hit the loose gravel.

I came up with a solution I'm quite happy with and I can roll the boat around without issue now. See the comments on the album for how I built it. Because I have to move it over loose gravel I was using pneumatic tires instead of normal casters. Pnumatic casters are way bigger and less stable so it wasn't practical to have the strong back on the wheels at all times. This solution lets the boat rest on the entire strongback, nice and stable while I'm working. Then to move it I can have it up on 4 reasonably sized pnumatic tires in just a few minutes.
Imgur Album

I also really enjoyed getting a look at the hull from more than 3 feet away!

I hope to finish fairing and start priming in the next 2 weekends.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 12:21 pm
by Fuzz
Neat idea for the wheels. As Cracker Larry would say "thats slick as an eels pecker"

Boat is looking good also :D

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:43 am
by joe2700
Back at it after taking the summer off. The house is rented out in the summers so I can't access the shop. Today I finished sanding the notched coat of quickfair. Then I spread some gelmagic down the keel to make a flat spot I can attach the skeg to without it rolling to either side. Also made the first pass at filling in the notches.
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Tomorrow I hope to glue the skeg on, and put down a second filling coat of quickfair. I'll let that cure at least a week before sanding, probably starting off with elevated heat for a few hours. I want to make sure this quickfair is fully cured before final sanding so the notches don't print through.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:55 pm
by TomW1
Joe unless the temp up in Mass is below 60 I would not go more than 2 days before sanding the Quick Fair. As it cures it gets harder to sand. It really depends on your temps. The lower the longer you can wait. It is an epoxy product so play it by ear but don't wait to long do a test and if doesn't gum up your sand paper your good to go.

Tom

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:22 pm
by joe2700
Luckily other than scuffing the surface I didn't need to sand that gel magic. I shaped it while I applied it to be close enough. Just needed a flat enough spot the skeg wouldn't twist when I glued it on. As usual life came up and I didn't get as far as I wanted. I did get the skeg glued down though.

Edit: Misread your post as gel magic instead of quickfair. The quickfair has been sanded as close as I can get, it's just that the newer quickfair in the notches will keep shrinking as it cures so I'll need to do I final sanding once it's fully cured. I got as close as I can while it's still easy to sand but if I were to prime now it would later print through, or so I've been told.

I first glued all the layers together on the floor, then lifted the hole pile up onto the flat spot I had made. Screwed it to the boat about once each foot from the stern to the bow. Next time I'll remove the screws and blend the layers together since my skeg tapers all the way to the bow. Then glass it in with a good few layers of tape.
Imgur Album

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:04 pm
by bateau-webmaster
Very Nice Joe! I've added you to the build threads page. I like the imgur albums. 8)

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:04 pm
by TomW1
joe2700 wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:34 am
TomW1 wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:53 am Make sure your leaving a 1/8" round over on all the edges so that the paint will stick and not peel off the hull. Also unless your building the very basic hull design go ahead and finish painting the lower hull at least up to the chines.
I'll be dealing with the edges once I'm happy with aa the surfaces. I actually planned on sharpening them, my understanding being that especially in the planning areas you wanted sharp edges. I will knock them down a touch, but I'll see if any of the paint manufacturers actually specify a corner radius.

I'll put some bottom paint on the part that it will rest on in the trailer to make life easier, but I don't want to mark the waterline until I float it once, at least that's the plan for now.
You round them over now so the fiber glass has a radius to make the curve 3/8" to 1/2" is good. Then you build a damn on the transom and the last 6-7' of the sides and fill in the gap with epoxy wood flour and silica you can also add milled glass fibers for strength. Then just round that over a little say a 1/16th so the paint will hold.

Tom

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:00 pm
by peter-curacao
TomW1 wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:04 pm
joe2700 wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:34 am
TomW1 wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:53 am Make sure your leaving a 1/8" round over on all the edges so that the paint will stick and not peel off the hull. Also unless your building the very basic hull design go ahead and finish painting the lower hull at least up to the chines.
I'll be dealing with the edges once I'm happy with aa the surfaces. I actually planned on sharpening them, my understanding being that especially in the planning areas you wanted sharp edges. I will knock them down a touch, but I'll see if any of the paint manufacturers actually specify a corner radius.

I'll put some bottom paint on the part that it will rest on in the trailer to make life easier, but I don't want to mark the waterline until I float it once, at least that's the plan for now.
You round them over now so the fiber glass has a radius to make the curve 3/8" to 1/2" is good. Then you build a damn on the transom and the last 6-7' of the sides and fill in the gap with epoxy wood flour and silica you can also add milled glass fibers for strength. Then just round that over a little say a 1/16th so the paint will hold.

Tom
That's one way to do it. on the flyer there were so many edges to sharp that I didn't bother to build dams, I just mixed up a non sagging mixture put it in a sandwich bag with cut of corner and layed thick putty beads over the rounded corners, after that I took two wide plastic scrapers, hold one on one edge and the other one on the other edge and run them together over the full length, worked great for me, only downside is you have some left over putty, so have something else you wanna glue nearby

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:35 am
by joe2700
TomW1 wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:04 pm Then you build a damn on the transom and the last 6-7' of the sides and fill in the gap with epoxy wood flour and silica you can also add milled glass fibers for strength. Then just round that over a little say a 1/16th so the paint will hold.
That little radius for the paint is what I was wondering about. 1/16 sounds pretty reasonable. I think I'll use gel magic for this since I have a bunch and it's very hard/durable.
peter-curacao wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:00 pm I just mixed up a non sagging mixture put it in a sandwich bag with cut of corner and layed thick putty beads over the rounded corners, after that I took two wide plastic scrapers, hold one on one edge and the other one on the other edge and run them together over the full length, worked great for me
I was thinking about walking down with 2 spreaders to do it, glad to hear that worked for you. Less work than building a dam if it works out.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:51 pm
by joe2700
First thing I did this weekend was pull some measurements off the boat I used to drive at work. It was a 17' Montauk and I really liked it's console and seat setup. It was ergonomic both sitting and standing with the swing back seat. I took many measurements off it before it's put away for the year and will use this as a starting point mocking up my console. I plan few inches taller and a bit narrowing for the FS 17. I'll leave under the seat empty for a cooler and 5 gallon buckets of random stuff since I'm going with a permanent fuel tank.
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I also faired, filleted and glassed the keel with 3 layers of biax tape. See the description under each pciture for details.
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It was nice to do some layup instead of just fairing. I am almost ready to start painting, Need to fair the keel in, sharpen the chines, and do a final sanding. Hoping by the end of the month I'll be primed and maybe bottom painted since I can only work about every other weekend.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:28 pm
by joe2700
It's been a long time since I've been able to work on the boat for more than an hour or two at a time on sporadic weekends. In that time all I managed was fairing in the keel and some more general fairing all over. The past 2 weekends I was able to make some real progress again. Details in the description of each picture in the galleries.

First I sharpened the chines.
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Then I washed the boat and gave the garage a through vacuum and blow out to get rid of dust.
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Then I applied 2 coats of primer.
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I really liked this paint and the other silvertip products but I find the system three's documentation frustrating. The links to many products TDS on the website are duplicate links to the MSDS, and times like the pot life of the primer vary across the TDS, packaging, and product pages. They need a documentation cleanup.

After paint I just started on the cradle for a right side up boat before running out of time. Over the coming long weekend I hope to finish the cradle, sand the primer, fix the remaining pin holes or defects, and apply a final 2 coats of primer. If I can crank the heat up enough for the primer to cure in 24 hours I'll also get 2 coats of bottom paint on the very bottom where it will be hard to paint later. That might be pushing it, and I won't risk it if I'm not sure it's cured. If everything goes just right the boat will be ready to flip the second I'm back from traveling.

Excited to be making some progress again. I'll sign off with the question of what roller other people prefer for applying the yacht primer.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:34 pm
by jacquesmm
Thank you for posting that sequence of pictures on how to finish the edges with a dam and then sand along a surface. Great pictures much better than when I try to explain it in my notes.

For the roller, I let other respond, I am not that good at fairing but it's only a primer. I use the yellow roller we sell here:
https://boatbuildercentral.com/proddeta ... est_covers
That primer is an epoxy.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:51 am
by joe2700
I wanted to build the cradle before the final primer coats so any small scratches caused wouldn't have to be fixed after they went on. So I started with that today. I made the aft most bunk(are they called that when going across the boat?), then put two 2x6 from there to the bow, using a laser level to level them. I wanted to have it level relative to the strong back so once the boat it right side up I can still use a level as a reference.

I filled in a bunk every few feet tapping it in until the 2x6 was up to the laser line. It's not stiff enough by itself, but I plan to flip the boat on to this, then remove the sawhorses and strongback from my current structure and pull this one up on to it and secure it. This way I can keep using my wheels and reuse a lot of the lumber.
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After that was done I moved the cradle outside and covered it with a tarp as snow is coming. Sanded the first 2 coats of primer with 180 grit, washed it again, and put a third coat of primer on. I need to get the 4th and final coat on before going to bed if I want to stay on my schedule for the weekend, so I currently have the heater and dehumidifier running full blast in the garage while it snows outside. Temp is 92 F and rising, humidity is 42% and falling. Should be able to get that last coat on soon, which I will thin 10% again.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:39 am
by OrangeQuest
Good looking hull. Liking the cradle you made too.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:10 am
by cape man
I know you are trying to get it done as fast as possible, but while you can put on several coats of primer soon after each other, you need to wait awhile - about a week - before the top coat for that S3 product to fully cure.

Boat looks fantastic and I like the cradle.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:46 pm
by joe2700
cape man wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:10 am I know you are trying to get it done as fast as possible, but while you can put on several coats of primer soon after each other, you need to wait awhile - about a week - before the top coat for that S3 product to fully cure.

Boat looks fantastic and I like the cradle.
Thanks cape man, according to the can you need 24 hours at 77 F and can test for cure by rubbing a wet finger on the paint and making sure you don't pick anything up. Have people found it actually takes longer? I was planning on giving it about 30 hours then relying on that test to decide if I should go ahead or wait until the next weekend. Hoping starting the cure off so hot will make it fully cure in the allotted time but we'll see.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:14 pm
by joe2700
I did the test system three describes in their paint literature, where you rub a wet finger on the paint and see if any comes off. I got no transfer to my finger at all after some vigorous rubbing indicating it's cured. I'm going to give it the extra 12 hours to tomorrow and then go ahead with bottom paint. Here are a few pictures of the hull with final primer(when it was still wet), I've very happy with how it's looking. Also a better picture of the cradle as I added some carpet.
Imgur Album

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:02 am
by Fair WX Pilot
joe2700 wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:46 pm
cape man wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:10 am I know you are trying to get it done as fast as possible, but while you can put on several coats of primer soon after each other, you need to wait awhile - about a week - before the top coat for that S3 product to fully cure.

Boat looks fantastic and I like the cradle.
Thanks cape man, according to the can you need 24 hours at 77 F and can test for cure by rubbing a wet finger on the paint and making sure you don't pick anything up. Have people found it actually takes longer? I was planning on giving it about 30 hours then relying on that test to decide if I should go ahead or wait until the next weekend. Hoping starting the cure off so hot will make it fully cure in the allotted time but we'll see.
Hi, if it’s of any help I used the same primer on my build. I checked and checked the transom and thought it was dry as I was rushing to flip the hull. Unfortunately as soon as I started wet sanding it I virtually washed off all the paint as it was only the top surface that was cured. I have 9 coats on my hull and had no other problems with the previous coats which all cured for around a week before sanding. Your boat looks great by the way and really enjoying following your build.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:04 pm
by joe2700
Well I ignored everyones advice and it seems fine but time will tell! I think starting the cure at 90F+ and <40% humidity really gets you a full cure much faster than normal. I sanded the hull very lightly just to knock off bumps from dust. Then wiped the whole boat down with water and no primer came off. Then I wiped down with the noxious thinner for the bottom paint, still nothing came off. Taped off the bottom just where I can't get to later, not up to the actual waterline which I will mark when I float her.

Next I applied three coats of total boat spartan bottom paint. First coat I used the the 3/8 roller than came with the paint and it was a mistake, it didn't flatten out leaving way too much texture. The next two coats I thinned and applied with a foam roller. This reduced but didn't eliminate the texture overall. Since bottom paint wears away instead of being permanent, and since this paint will always be below the surface not just above, I'm not too worried about it. Still disappointing after making the primer so smooth, but that will pay off for the topside paint down the road.

You can see on the side I also glassed the outside of the two sheer panels with medium cloth while the bottom paint dried. Easier to get those smooth before attaching them to the boat.
Imgur Album

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer - Flipped

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:48 pm
by joe2700
Brought the boat outside and worked on the sheer panels while I waited for some help to arrive to flip.
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Then I flipped her with the help of my mom and girlfriend, it was not heavy or difficult, just a little awkward. Got it up over the frames and put the rail down as gently as possible, then just let her fall as gently as possible onto the cradle. Took about 3 minutes.
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Then I took apart the strongback keeping just the bottom frame to use the same setup to move the boat around.
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I pulled the cradle up onto the frame with a winch and then pulled it inside. Got it all centered and screwed it down. Got a good look at the boat including from inside. I had been worried the 17, which I chose because I could tow it with my car, was going to be too small. Seeing it from inside I think it will be big enough, especially knowing the raised panels will make it a bit bigger. I would have preferred the 19 but then it would be too heavy for my little car to tow when loaded.
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And last I got myself a little flipping present, which will come in handy for rub rails, cleats, and other long thin stuff. Not needed for this project, but I've needed a compact accurate table saw for a while.
Imgur Album

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:00 pm
by Jeff
Nice Flip Joe2700!!!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:05 pm
by Bogieman
Looking good! I like the raised sheer version.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:30 pm
by Browndog
Way to go! Nice Boat, Nice flip and nice saw. Best wishes for continued success.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:50 pm
by OrangeQuest
Looks like everything is coming together nicely!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:03 am
by Fuzz
I am glad to see someone building the raised sheer version. I have been wondering how one would look.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:01 am
by cape man
Fuzz,
Check out the "British FS 17" thread. Was going on while I was building Clara. I had the pleasure of seeing it while on a business trip. Nice boat, and the raised sheer really makes this a BIG boat!

Love looking at these boats right after the flip. Kind of like a blank canvas waiting for the artist to begin!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:27 am
by joe2700
cape man wrote: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:01 am Fuzz,
Check out the "British FS 17" thread. Was going on while I was building Clara. I had the pleasure of seeing it while on a business trip. Nice boat, and the raised sheer really makes this a BIG boat!
That is one of the builds I have bookmarked, and one of the only raised sheer build logs I know of.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:44 pm
by cape man
Steve's a great guy, so bet he would respond to an email.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:43 pm
by TomW1
Yea cape man Steve's FS17 raised sheer is a great build to follow. He would definitely be glad to answer any questions.

Tom

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:43 pm
by joe2700
Had nice enough weather to work outside for the first time in a while, good timing as I was installing the sheer panels and wanted to get a look from a distance. Got a nice fire going next to the boat to drink beers by. Didn't catch the boat on fire once.
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I screwed the sheer panels on, attempting gain 6" at the stern to 9" at the bow. We just couldn't get the shape to work, the panels wanted to tilt out too much. Ended up adding 6" bow to stern as designed. It looks ok, but not what I wanted. The front half foot falls off noticeably, from the shape of the panel, but I can hide that with the rub rail.
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Next day my friend who is rebuilding his boat came over to cut up a piece of mahogany on the new table saw, to make strips he will laminate his rub rail from. Saw cut it beautifully, really happy with it. We also too another stab at installing the sheer panels. My friend is a big strong guy, and with him pulling up and forward, and with me angling the screws to pull the panel forward, we were able to get the panels screwed on exactly how I had wanted, 3" higher at the bow. Anchored the stern then just worked towards the bow forcing it a little bit with each screw. I'm much happier with how the boat looks now. There is a little hump in the panel, so I'll re trim it based on the rub rail once that is installed to get the final shape, which might look even a tiny bit more bow up.
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I protected the rest of the primed surface with carpet film and painters tape, sanded the primer where the panels attach, the glued them on with gel magic. The fact that the front of the panels now extend 9" with only 3" of over lap would be concerning, except that I will be bringing the interior biax all the way to the top of the sheer, which I suspect will be plenty to hold the panels securely.
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I also used the table saw to cut strips of 3/8 plywood and remove half the thickness of the stringers from the top inch with a dado set. This is all to add 2-3/8 inches in height to the stringers with offset strips. 2" because that's how much I'm raising the sole, and 3/8 because they were that undersized. Don't know why or how but when I looked at them I had sharpied on "3/8 undersize" and sure enough hey were. Ahh well, the sole is the on other thing I cut before deciding to raise the sheer, that will have to be tweaked. I'll glue those stringers up and start glassing the inside next weekend.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:56 pm
by Bogieman
Your boat is looking really nice!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:09 pm
by Jeff
Joe, your Boat is looking really good but your weather looks very cold!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:26 pm
by joe2700
Bogieman wrote: Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:56 pm Your boat is looking really nice!
Thanks Bogieman.
Jeff wrote: Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:09 pm Joe, your Boat is looking really good but your weather looks very cold!! Jeff
Jeff, 45 and sunny this time of year feels like summer, there's just a lot of snow left over from the 3 nor'easters we've had in a month. A lot melted Saturday before it dropped back down below freezing this week. Not to worry, 4th one is incoming Wednesday apparently.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:24 am
by Rmarsh
Looking really good there Joe. Trailer dolly idea is cool too.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:24 pm
by TomW1
That is looking really nice. I have always liked the look of the raised sheer.

Tom

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:10 pm
by remedy32
Boat's really starting to take shape. In 2010 when I build my FS17 I was so frustrated by the weather that I flipped the boat to do the inside (in garage) and then twice again to complete the bottom and finally get her right side up. I had much the same experience with the sheer extensions. I finally settled on an 8" panel rocked to lift the aft area 3" and the bow about 5".

It looks like you're aiming at that Cape Cod or Downeast sheer that I hoped for too. One lesson I learned was that the area around the first bulkhead really wants to close up and this exaggerates any bow droop. This is more pronounced because of the flare of the hull in that area. IMO, the key is to get a spreader in that spot and then evaluate the sheer in profile for some distance back. Applying some rearward force from the bow to transom would probably have the same effect. This is one of the very few regrets I've got from my build. I wish I had spent more time getting it exactly how I wanted it BEFORE finishing up the gunwale, foredeck etc.

It's a great little boat. Track down a 35-50 hp four stroke and you should enjoy it for a long time.

Bill
CT

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:52 am
by joe2700
remedy32 wrote: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:10 pm It looks like you're aiming at that Cape Cod or Downeast sheer that I hoped for too.
Thank Bill I am going for that look(and building on Cape Cod).

This weekend I put my temporary frames back in to make sure the hull hadn't spread significantly. Still quite close to the right shape so I won't be changing anything there which makes life easier. I also measured how much I needed to raise the foreward bulkhead(A) to account for the raised sheer. I'll cut it 1" higher than the line straight across to allow me to add crown to the forward deck.
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Frames B, C, and D, Need to be cut down 2" above the original baseline. Since that's parallell to the deck line they are already cut at it was as simple as setting the table saw fence and cutting all 3 down to the right size to use as templates.
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Now that I had my extended A, cut down B through D, and unchanged E templates, I laid them out on plywood as efficiently as I could and traced them to be cut later.
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Then I needed to make my rubrail which is white oak, and will be the only brightwork on the boat other than perhaps a few accents. I had two 11 foot 1x6 boards, and I cut two 1-3/4" strips out of each. I made a quick jig for the table saw to cut a 12" scarf in them. I wanted a nice long scarf given white oaks reputation as not taking epoxy well.
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I glued up the joint loosely to leave plenty of glue, and at the same time glued up the pieces to extend my stringers that I had already cut. The scarfs would have looked a little better if I could have squeezed out some more glue to reduce the visible glue line, but I wanted to prioritize strength.
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Scarfs came out well, so that the pieces curved evenly over their whole length without the joint messing it up. I forgot to take a picture of the joints after I cleaned them up, but other than a thick glue line they look fine.
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A friend came over and helped me clamp the rub rail on. We did one side, just focusing on the rail being fair as it will be the most obvious line. It took a lot of force and a lot of clamps to bend it around and get it to twist right. After the scarfs survived that I'm not worried about gluing the white oak. Once one side was on we pre-drilled a bunch of screw holes from the inside, traced the bottom edge, and transferred a few measurement to the other side every few feet as a reference. Took that side off and repeated it on the other side starting from the reference marks, and making small tweaks to fair it out.
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Then I applied some gel magic and got both sides glued on mainly using the predrilled screw holes, with added clamps in high stress areas. Can't wait to see it with all the clamps off when I'm at the boat next, I think I'm now really happy with the profile. Bow is nice and pointy. I'll trim the side panels down to the rub rails with a router, as the rub rail is the fair curve.
Imgur Album

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:43 am
by OrangeQuest
Great pictures! Build is coming along nicely.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:34 am
by Jeff
Good update!! Boat is looking great!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:00 pm
by joe2700
Last weekend I started by using a router to trim the panels flush with the top of the rub rail, and then 3/8" below the rub rail to later accept the side decks. I think routers are underrated tools for this sort of building, when you have one good reference surface you can easily trim other things to match.
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The scarfs came out pretty well too.
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I'm really happy with the lines of the boat now, happy I took the time to give it a lot more of a pointy bow.
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The rub rails were trimmed to fit each other at the bow, and I glued them together with gel magic. I put a scrap of 2x4 inside and screwed into it from each side to pull the joint together. The rub rails were pulling this joint apart with quite a lot of force, so I glassed the outside of the bow at the same time so I wouldn't be relying on that small glue surface to stay together. This will be covered by many layers of glass on the inside for real strength. Also put a small filler piece at the top of the transom on each side.
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I also precut all my inside glass and staged it for a big weekend of glassing coming up.
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And did all my inside fillets. Filled the holes that were left too, probably almost 150 all from temp screws at various times. Didn't realize there were that many until I had to fill them.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:48 pm
by remedy32
Nice to see progress despite the horrible weather we've been having this "spring" in Southern New England. Sheer looks real nice in profile!

Here in chilly CT my big stack of 18mm okume is slowly being converted into frames for my Pelicano 23 build. At the same time the trusty FS17 is getting a nine year facelift. Think it might be time for more helpers. :lol:

Keep up the great work and keep the pictures coming.

Bill
CT

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:39 am
by joe2700
Thanks Bill, looks like a great next project you have lined up.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:40 pm
by joe2700
Only had a half day this weekend so put the big glassing job on hold until I can do it all in one go. First I worked on the stringers. Screwed them together and used a power planer to level the tops and fair the bottoms. On the tops I marked the transom, then each frame working forward. I marked and cut out a notch for the clamping board. I'm generally too hesitant to reach for a hand saw, for something like this it's usually the quickest easiest option.
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Next I marked notches for the stringers on all the frames except A. The notches extend to the original baseline, 2 inches short of my baseline. I'll cut into the stringers 2 inches at the locations I marked so everything ties together. I cut the sides of the notches with the jigsaw and squared the end off with a chisel.
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Then I test fit the stringers, separated them and dropped all the frames on the marks. I hadn't cut the notches in the stringers since I wanted to make sure everything looked right first, so all the frames are 2" higher than they will be. Really nice to see it all in the boat.
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The next weekend I work on it should be the inside glassing marathon. Ordered a few tyvek suites in preparation for crawling around in there.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:56 am
by Browndog
That looks nice!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:06 am
by OrangeQuest
It is looking good!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:29 am
by Jeff
NIce Joe2700!! Nice work!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:49 pm
by joe2700
This weekend was the inside glassing weekend, with a plan to get it all done so no sanding between layers.

First I needed to sand down the fillets and give the who interior a once over so there was nothing sticking up to cause an air bubble. I started hand sanding the fillets, and it sucked, so I tried the triangular pad on the multitool. It worked great if you pushed it into the fillet really hard, deforming the pad into the shape of the fillet. Sanding all fillets this way, and the pad was rapidly disintegrating. Just made it to the end, but destroying one pad was totally worth it for the time saved. I also sanded the whole hull quickly with the orbital connected to the shop vac, so the inside was all clean.
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Next I prepped. Myself with some tyvek, shop with all the precut glass, my epoxy mixing station, and my comfort station(music, coffee, water, snack, shop kleenex, etc.). I had a solid cold so the shop kleenex were essential to not contaminate the layup with my dripping nose.
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Then I did all the interior seams. 2 layers of 12oz biaxial tape around the transom and down the bow/keel, 1 layer along the chines. At the advice of my friend I laid out some plastic on the workbench and wet out the tapes there, before moving them to the boat and rolling them down. This worked really well. I weighed a few of the tapes before and after and I had almost exactly a 50% epoxy content by weight over bare plywood, which I was pretty happy with. No dry spots but the weave wasn't filled with puddles at all either.
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My friend came our to check out my progress like we frequently do for each others boats, but instead of just having a beer he threw on some tyvek and got to work which was a huge help. We started by glassing the 2 sides.
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Then we did the port side bottom and transom. At this point it was about 10pm and time to call it quits for the day.

The next morning I laid out the rest of the glass again. Because I'll have slightly more that the recommended 50hp I'm doing an extra layer on the bottom as recommended. Originally this was going to be another full width strip down each side, but that seemed wasteful as one strip almost covers the whole bottom. Instead I'm running one layer right down the middle, cutting it along the keel to make it wide enough to fully cover the bottom. I'll lay a few tapes down where I cut it.
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With that planned and cut I was back to the first layer on the starboard side.
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Took a progress picture of each batch of epoxy, it was slow but steady progress. As I finished each section it looked a little dry, but would mostly fill in by waiting a few minutes. I used a trimmed chip brush to add epoxy or pop bubbles that were still visible after sitting, but being patient before doing that paid off.
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At this point I didn't think I safely had enough epoxy to do my final layer, and didn't want to risk running out halfway through so I held off. I did the 3 tapes down the middle that cover the cut in the second bottom layer since I still had some mixed epoxy.
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Almost met my goal for the weekend, just need to do that one final layer after I get some more epoxy.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:01 pm
by Bogieman
Very nice work! Where do you find that roller looking tool you used on the wide fabric (black handle- looks like a screen printing roller) ? I'll be glassing out the inside of my AD16 pretty soon and have begun considering what to use besides a chip brush.

Bogie

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:37 pm
by TomW1
Bogieman wrote: Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:01 pm Very nice work! Where do you find that roller looking tool you used on the wide fabric (black handle- looks like a screen printing roller) ? I'll be glassing out the inside of my AD16 pretty soon and have begun considering what to use besides a chip brush.

Bogie


There are various rollers sold on line here that are very effective..

Tom

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:56 pm
by joe2700
Bogieman wrote: Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:01 pm Very nice work! Where do you find that roller looking tool you used on the wide fabric (black handle- looks like a screen printing roller) ? I'll be glassing out the inside of my AD16 pretty soon and have begun considering what to use besides a chip brush.

Bogie
That's a fiberglass laminating roller with grooves. Like this one: https://boatbuildercentral.com/proddeta ... _1%2F2_3in

I only use the chip brush for adding a tiny bit of epoxy to dry spots, popping bubbles, and pushing the cloth into corners. It's works much better at these things if you make it stiffer by cutting off about half the length of the fibers with scissors.

We found it easiest to do the vertical surfaces by taping the cloth on. Then a few feet at a time we lifted it up to prewet underneath with epoxy, and rolled epoxy on the top, both with a solvent safe 3/8 nap cigar roller. Foam rollers absorb too much epoxy and kick quickly. We then squeegeed out the excess.

For the horizontal surfaces we just pour a ton of epoxy on and spread it with a squeegee. Spread it too heavy at first, let it soak for a minute, then pull the extra away and work any dry spots.

That's all for the 12oz biaxial, for normal cloth its much easier.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:07 pm
by Fuzz
Great update. Your glass work looks very good. Being able to do that much all at one time is a huge time saver.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:39 pm
by Bogieman
[/quote]

That's a fiberglass laminating roller with grooves. Like this one: https://boatbuildercentral.com/proddeta ... _1%2F2_3in

[/quote]

Ok, thank you.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:55 am
by joe2700
Put in an order for more epoxy and supplies, put the wrong shipping address so you guys have an email from me about 30 seconds after the order :roll:

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:39 am
by Jeff
Joe2700, Received your order and the email correcting the shipping address!! Thank you for both!! Your order will ship later today, Friday, April 20!! (I also sent you a response email) Thank you for your business and I hope it gets warmer for you guys up there!! Tough winter!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:13 am
by OrangeQuest
Jeff wrote: Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:39 am Joe2700, Received your order and the email correcting the shipping address!! Thank you for both!! Your order will ship later today, Friday, April 20!! (I also sent you a response email) Thank you for your business and I hope it gets warmer for you guys up there!! Tough winter!! Jeff
When I seen Joe2700's post of sending you guys the wrong address and then sending an email with correct address I pictured a PIXAR animation of you opening the email and have a big red button by your monitor that you rush to push. It sounds an alarm in the shipping dept and little animated elves start scrambling to stop the packaging of Joe2700 order and they all start double checking it to make sure everything is correct. They report to the shipping manager that the correct address is on the package, which by this time you are in the shipping dept to make sure it is correct and both you and the shipping manager confirm it has the correct address. You then go back to your monitor and send the email confirming that Joe2700 will be getting his shipment to the corrected address and all the elves sign of relief as they go back to being busy and singing happy worker songs.

I'm pretty sure that is how it works, never a doubt!

OQ

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:19 am
by joe2700
I'm sure that's just about right OC, the only advantage I had was ordering in the middle of the night, gives you a bit of time to realize you were an idiot before your package is already packed up!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:56 pm
by joe2700
For the last 6 weeks it's been full on sailing season. Had this past weekend off but it was also the last weekend I have access to the boat until September.

My main priority was getting the last layer of inside hull glass down.
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Did that and it went pretty smoothly. The temps were much higher than last time I was glassing, and I was using the same batch size, so I did have one patch about 2 square feet start to go off on me. There are some moderate dry spots in that section, but since it's an extra layer over a well adhered layer of glass I'm not worried about it.

I then put the stringers and frames in for a quick look.
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You can see the dry spots I mentioned on the starboard side right under frame D. I'll be planning all my chase tube routing over the summer so I can get right to really fitting the stringers and frames in September. Having the mental and digital images will help.

Next I put the sole down.
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It confirmed what I had realized a few months ago, that cutting my sole to the plans when I raising it was a mistake, it's too small to use. I'll cut my console panels from the sole pieces and cut a new sole to measurements I take from the boat.

Then I cut some scrap into the rough outer dimensions of the biggest console I'm considering, and walked around the boat to make sure it was comfortable to get around it. Found I had plenty of room. The real console will be shaped so it will take up less space, and I'll build a full cardboard mockup over the summer to try in the fall. I also placed the stool at the seat height I planned, and found I need to lower my console a bit from what I had planned.

Walking around the boat raised 2 questions for me.

- At the front it felt like a big stretch over frame A to the bow. I think that will be a pain for handling anchors/lines, so I think I'll move frame A 4"-6" forward and gain a little more open space in the process. That will bring the distance from A to the bow back in line with what it would have been if I didn't raise the sheer.

-The sole felt very flimsy. Obviously it will be far more secure when on cleats around the outside and fully glassed down, but I'm still worried it will flex between the frames. Can anyone with a 3/8" sole who didn't foam under it weigh in on how much it flexes? Bonus points if it's okume. I'm considering 1/2" instead but I do imagine thats a big weight penalty. I'll have to figure out how much a difference it would make, and how much of a problem the flexing might be on the 3/8" if I add a layer of glass on both sides. I'd love input on this point if anyone has some.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:18 pm
by BarraMan
The sole felt very flimsy. Obviously it will be far more secure when on cleats around the outside and fully glassed down, but I'm still worried it will flex between the frames. Can anyone with a 3/8" sole who didn't foam under it weigh in on how much it flexes? Bonus points if it's okume. I'm considering 1/2" instead but I do imagine thats a big weight penalty. I'll have to figure out how much a difference it would make, and how much of a problem the flexing might be on the 3/8" if I add a layer of glass on both sides. I'd love input on this point if anyone has some.
I pondered the same question!
My decks are 3/8" okune, covered with 12oz biax glass cloth on the top side only - epoxied only on the bottom side. They don't flex!

Image

I think there would be less of a weight penalty in putting some extra support under the deck, if needed rather than going to 1/2" ply.

Put the cleats on, put a piece of 3/8" ply glassed on one side down where its well supported and walk around on it to see how it goes.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:12 am
by jacquesmm
Everything will feel flimsy until finished, glued down on cleats and tape all around.
The hull panels are flimsy too but once assembled, they are solid.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:32 pm
by joe2700
Glad to hear from someone with the same type of sole, I will wait until the sole is fully glassed in to evaluate, and can always add reenforcement to the top if needed.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:49 am
by willg
Re sole flex there will of course be a big difference b/w what you're seeing now vs when it's glued in place and glassed. However, on my PH18 I put a cross-member at stringer height where I thought there'd be the most potential for flex. It's so easy to do that I didn't bother trying to talk myself out of it.

Your build looks great.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:08 pm
by joe2700
Back at it after the summer season is over. Due to travel this is actually the only weekend I have before the middle of October, so wanted to make some good progress. Started with some supplies I'll need a little later. Test fit the 22 gallon fuel tank that will go in my console, and got my chase tubes from home depot along with a few sheets of cheap hardboard I'll use to mock up the seats and console before cutting the expensive stuff.
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Next I glassed one layer of cloth on both sides of all the frames and stringers. I don't want any surface on this boat not covered in at least a thin layer of glass and it's so easy to do on a flat surface I decided to do it before installing. Forgot how easy fiberglassing is when you are using cloth instead of biax. Cut 2 layers of glass as efficiently as I could for all pieces then glassed the first side on. As soon as it was not liquid(still very sticky) I flipped them to do the other side, since the plastic I flipped them on to doesn't stick to epoxy it worked fine. Aside from being in a rush I was worried one side curing before the other was on would warp the frames.
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Still need to find time to enjoy boats while building one so took a cruise in a friends gorgeous homebuilt boat.
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Next I needed to do a final sanding of the entire inside. Used kneepads for the first time and I'm kicking myself for not getting some sooner. The other big help was borrowing the Bosch 6" orbital sander with the direct drive mode. I think that mode let me finish 2-3 times quicker than with my 6" random orbit. I have one of these in the shopping cart now, great tool. With those 2 upgrades I quickly sanded the entire inside with 60 grit.
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Next was installing the stringers. I got everything in the boat and aligned the tops of of the frames and stringers using small blocks of wood with 2 square sides and some clamps. Next I used the laser to align everything on center line. I checked the frames and stringers were level in both directions with a level and confirmed they were all square to each other.

All looked good. There are large gaps under the stringers in the forward half of the boat but that shouldn't be a problem, and the gel magic could span the gap to tack them in. This was the first time I tried the gel magic from the caulking gun with the static mixing tip. Worked great for something like this. So fast and neat. You do pay a premium though.

Everything still looks good with the frames lifted away. I'm working from here today so hopefullyI can glass the stringers in tonight before I leave.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:23 pm
by OrangeQuest
Wow! everything is looking very good!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:38 am
by joe2700
Thanks OrangeQuest

I finished getting the stringers in. Two offset layers of biaxial on each side along the bottom and where they meet the transom. I continued to wet the tape out on a plastic sheet on the floor and then move the tape to the boat. pushed each layer down with a laminating roller and once both were in I used a trimmed chip brush to poke out any bubble with a dab of extra epoxy. Really like doing it this way and still glad I finally have kneepads.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:18 pm
by Jeff
Nice work Joe2700!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:16 am
by joe2700
I fit the frames back in, making the notches a little wider to account for the glass on the stringers and cutting off the bottom corners to fit over the stringer fillets. Made sure the tops of the frames and stringers were level with each other again.

In the past I've found doing fillets on both sides of a gap to be difficult because when you run the radius tool down one side it pushes the fillet material out the other side. Just goes back and forth. Before dinner last yesterday I ran a very small bead of fillet material along all the frames where there was any gap, but low enough it was below the final radius. This was hard enough after dinner that I could do fillets on both sides without any material moving through the gaps.

After dinner I spent many hours doing all the fillets on frames B through E. Takes a lot of time with all the corners. Today I'll sand them all and apply glass to them. Then I'll be completely done all the framing under the sole.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:40 pm
by Jeff
Nice job Joe2700!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:48 pm
by OrangeQuest
That is a good tip on running a small bead first! For my little boat I had to do both sides at the same time, big pain! Then you get to the corners and always a little dent or bump and it snowballs when you try to correct it.

Looks like everything is ready for the next step and still looking good!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:39 am
by joe2700
I found that one side of frame E was off, it wasn't plumb and was about 1/2" too close to the transom at the top. Used the multi tool to cut that side off the hull keeping the fillet on the frame, pushed it forward with a board wedged against the transom, and pulled the side in with a ratchet strap while the gel magic cured. When the side was pulled in it wanted to push the frame even further forward than I wanted, so the bar clamp just prevents that.
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While I waited for it to cure I put the undersized sole back in lining it up down the center with the laser. Then I took measurements along it to the hull so I can cut a correctly sized one. Also used the laser to mark a line up the hull from each frame so it's easy to find them once the sole is down.
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Next I started templating the bow area with thin pre-painted particle board and a hot glue gun. With the raised sheer the bow sticks about a half foot further forward and it was too far to reach over from frame A, and wasted space for me. I'm going to cut A at 18" above the sole(apparently the standard height for seats according to my naval architect phone a friend), step forward 12", then bring it the rest of the way to the top. This should make a nice bench still leaving just enough space for the anchor locker in the top part, and a nice storage space under the bench and anchor locker where I'll probably store the life jackets.
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I'll probably make this bench U shaped so 3 people can sit there instead of 1, but I'll wait until I have mocked up the console to make sure theres space to do that comfortably.

I started sanding the frame fillets and was hoping to get the single layer of biax on those tonight but sanding fillets is miserable and takes forever. Only got about half way though. I'll finish that tomorrow and get the glass in. Hopefully I have time to mock up the console too, seeing the structure take shape is a lot of fun, even if it is all just templates for now.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:27 pm
by joe2700
I'll say again that because of all the corners doing stuff below the frames takes forever. I did finally get all the frames other than A glassed in, but I'm dreading even the rough sanding I'll need to do below the sole before paint.
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I have the template for the bow area in.
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I'm bringing a bunch of gear to the boat this weekend to made sure I have places for it all as I mock up the rest of the storage areas and the console. Anchors, fire extinguisher, pfds,toolbox, emergency kit. I want a good spot for everything and I'd feel pretty dumb if I built it only to realize stuff doesn't fit.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:18 pm
by OrangeQuest
Looks good and fitting everything before building is always a good idea.

I did not have a lot of fun filleting on the inside either.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:52 pm
by narfi
joe2700 wrote: Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:27 pm I'm dreading even the rough sanding I'll need to do below the sole before paint.
Maybe I missed something.... Why do you need to sand or paint below the sole? It will be covered and sealed off right?

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:00 am
by joe2700
narfi wrote: Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:52 pm
Maybe I missed something.... Why do you need to sand or paint below the sole? It will be covered and sealed off right?
I'll be using epoxy primer and epoxy based bilge paint(TotalBilge) below the sole and inside all storage areas. Compartments under the sole will be limbered together fore and aft with plugs at frame E, so I'll have 3 separate watertight areas that can be opened to check for water. I will certainly be going for sealed off, but I've found on boats a little water gets everywhere eventually, and I hate foam on boats so this is my solution for longevity. I'll need to sand just enough for the paint to stick and to get rid of any rough areas water or dirt/mold would collect.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:18 am
by narfi
Ah ok. I understand.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:12 am
by joe2700
Take two at cutting the sole. With the original too small sole in the boat I took measurements from the centerline to the hull. I also recorded the distance from the edge of the original sole to the hull as a second set of measurements to cross check. It was kind of fun to get back to lofting for a bit. After marking the measurements on the new ply and connecting them with a baton I put the old sole down on top, visually confirming the new one looked about the right amount bigger.
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It was a little late to start up the power tools so I'll cut it out tomorrow, fingers crossed it fits a whole lot better than the first one. Took a couple hours to organize the garage. Not as fun as building but pays off to do from time to time. Got myself a good bit more space after the fact.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:12 am
by pee wee
joe2700 wrote: Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:12 am Took a couple hours to organize the garage. Not as fun as building but pays off to do from time to time. Got myself a good bit more space after the fact.
Keeping a neat, clean and organized workspace is an important part of the work you are doing. I'll admit to ignoring that fact from time to time!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:44 am
by Bogieman
Very nice!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:04 pm
by joe2700
This weekend I did some fun stuff, mocking up the console. I'm sure I'll be back to some type of sanding next time. I had designed this console in my notebook after taking some key measurements off a 17' Montauk I used to drive for work and found comfortable. The rest I made up.

I made a small 2x4 frame so it would stand up then started cutting some template material and hot gluing it on. You can see I went through a few iterations if you flip through the photos. The first one was way too tall to see over and way too skinny. I got closer and then added mockups of the major components to make sure I had space for everything and it was all ergonomic. Finally got to something I was pretty happy with.
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Next I fit the new sole I lofted and cut last time. It was a pretty good fit, a tiny bit over sized as intended. After using a flap disc on the angle grinder to bevel the edge and knock off a few wide spots it dropped right in.
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Then I got to throw the console in the boat and spent a while just sipping coffee and looking. I was overall really happy with it. It looked big out of the boat but there is plenty of room to walk on both sides of it. It is pretty big for an FS17 but it's where I'll be spending most of my time on the boat so that's fine with me. It was a tiny bit too tall to comfortably see over sitting, and the plotter was a bit of a stretch forward, so I plan on dropping 2 inches off the hight and shortening the shelf by 2" as well in the final version. I spent a lot of time just checking it out from all the angles.
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Next I cut out the hole for the tank just in front of frame C. I was careful to keep the edges neat both inside and out because I'll just drop this panel straight down to be the platform for the tank, getting all that weight about 4" lower. Hopefully that partially makes up for the sole being 2" higher. It will be almost 140 lbs when full, so I think worth the effort, but I needed to do it anyway for the seat on the front of the console to be a good height.
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I needed to make those 2 adjustments to the console I mentioned, but also on the real one there will be toe relief all around the seat. That means some very complicated angles. Much easier to model it in cad and then take the computed measurements of each panel later. Here's what it will look like if all goes according to plan.
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The last thing was to deal with the bow area. I had previously mocked up a simple seat using frame A, a step forward, then another panel making the anchor locker. There were a few problems with this. The seat was only 12" deep, which isn't very comfortable as 16" is recommended. Also, leaving room for a bow cleat the opening to the anchor locker was going to be pretty tight. I'd like the seat to be 2" deeper and the anchor locker to be 2" longer.

Here's the plan. Move A 2" aft, and angle it 2" aft from the sole to the top at 18". This way it will have the same toe relief as the console seat and I get my extra space. I'll also be building seats on each side so it's kind of a U shape. I didn't have time to design this so I wrote a bunch of measurements on the boat and template, and took pictures, so I can model it all before I'm back in a few weeks.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:05 pm
by Jeff
Good planning!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:36 pm
by joe2700
Going to work remotely this week and a number of time through the holiday season to try to accelerate progress by working on the boat a few hours each night instead of just certain weekends. Really hoping to make a big push through new years so I launching early summer is possible.

Anyway last night I hot glued the moterwell sides in then applied some gel magic with the self mixing cartridge. Very fast and convenient for this type of thing but you pay a lot for that convenience compared to buying the buckets and mixing.
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I'll filet and glass the sides in tonight.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:46 am
by Eric1
Nice!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:07 am
by piperdown
Moving right along and it's looking good :)

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:43 pm
by joe2700
Got all my chase tubes from the console aft dry fitted.

Started by making a jig to cut the holes in the same place on the frames.
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Cut all the holes in C,D,E, motorwell sides, and stringers and started sliding in the spaghetti of chase tubes. Mostly turned out really well. I probably shouldn't have cut the 2 holes in C since they go right into where the tank should be. I'll probably patch those holes and move them as low as possible to go under the tank. The holes in the starboard stringer where the tubes are making the turn from the center into the starboard compartment were too hard to align as they were in the middle of the bend in the tube. Ended up having to cut one big hole for all the tubes there. I'll have to look at that area later and see if I need reinforcement or not as well as a way to keep the tubes from moving around.
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Anyway got them all in. Really fun to start thinking about systems even when there is plenty of construction to do.

The chase tubes to the aft starboard compartment are for:
- 1" battery positive
- 1" battery negative
- 1" fuel
- 1.5" 2 hydraulic steering hoses
- 1.5" wiring harness

The chase tubes to the aft center compartment are for:
- 1" drain from the fuel tank compartment
- 1.5" All other aft electronics

My batteries will be in the console so there will be very large unfused wires. Wanted them in separate tubes for safety. I'm a little concerned the 2 hydraulic steering lines will be hard to get in one 1.5" tube will be hard, but otherwise this should be plenty of chase tubes. The drain from the fuel compartment will be plugged so fuel leaks won't end up in the bilge with wires, but I can open it from time to time to check for fuel and water.
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Ok back to glassing compartments.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:23 pm
by Eric1
Very clean work! Good Job!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:29 am
by Jeff
Joe2700, nice work!!!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:13 pm
by joe2700
Finished fitting the chase tubes forward of C with the one for forward electronics, the fuel area drain, and one for the fuel line.
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I also drilled most of the limber holes and filled the 3 mistake chase tube holes I drilled. Luckily I still had the disks from cutting the holes with the hole saw, so just glued 3 of them back in.
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And last I did finish glassing in the motorwell sides. I couldn't find them in the lamination schedule, but I'm guessing they are 1 layer of biax like the frames are.
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I'll be back at it after thanksgiving. Working on getting everything required to get the sole down as soon as possible.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:40 am
by joe2700
Today I fit and glassed in frame A. It took a little while to mark and lineup, as it's 2" aft of the plans at the sole and 4" aft of the plans at its top 18" above the sole. All that so it's a good seat and has toe relief. Since it was now a different shape I had to scribe off the hull a few times to get it to fit again.
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Anyway once all that was done I was able to glue, fillet, and glass it in wet on wet on wet over a few hours. I did forget to glass this whole frame with thin cloth before installing so that will take a little more time later, but shouldn't be too bad.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:31 am
by OrangeQuest
Looking really good!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:33 pm
by joe2700
Got a bit more done on Sunday. Sanded the extended sheer panels on the outside and applied a thin layer of quickfair. That's the only part on the outside that isn't already primed, so I want it to be ready to prime when I'm painting below the sole anyway. I started sanding below the sole but didn't get far.

Before I left I glassed A with some thin cloth which I forgot to do when installing it.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:49 pm
by Jeff
Joe2700, Nice work & good progress!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:10 am
by thb
Hi there.

I noticed that you have several holes in your stringers near the transom. My FS17 had two holes in the right hand stringer in this area from the original builder. I plugged one of them with glass on both sides. I did not like having holes in this area of the stringers. Weakens them in an area where they need to be strong in my opinion. Glassing both sides of the stringers should restore some of that strength I hope.

Someone else can chime in as to whether I am being typical overkill but it is something to think about.

Regards
Tom in Steinhatchee

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:34 am
by joe2700
thb wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:10 am Hi there.

I noticed that you have several holes in your stringers near the transom. My FS17 had two holes in the right hand stringer in this area from the original builder. I plugged one of them with glass on both sides. I did not like having holes in this area of the stringers. Weakens them in an area where they need to be strong in my opinion. Glassing both sides of the stringers should restore some of that strength I hope.

Someone else can chime in as to whether I am being typical overkill but it is something to think about.

Regards
Tom in Steinhatchee
Thanks Tom. I actually ended up with one huge hole there which is probably even worse. Many of the chase tubes were mid bend between where they go through the 5 holes in frame E and five holes in the motorwell side so it was too difficult to get 5 individual holes to line up. There is also the limber hole in the stringer at the corner of the transom and hull bottom, but that corner of the hull has so many layers of glass I'm not worried about it at all.

The reason my chase tubes go through there instead of up and over most people seem to do is so that there is no closed low point for water to collect in them, the aft end is the lowest point. In hindsight I probably could have drilled drain holes in the tubes at the lowest point and brought them up and over the stringer.

I have been pondering if I need to reenforce the area at all. Now my stringers are 8-3/8" tall there since I raised the sole 2 inches , so I probably have 4" of the original 6-3/8" of stringer remaining even with the large hole. I also have a full extra layer of biax both sides of the hull there, and both my stringers and motorwell sides are glassed on both sides. My gut says that whole area is so glassed and stiff that it's fine, but if I do need to reinforce it I can double up on the stringer above the hole with 2 more strips of 3/8" ply or reroute the tubes over and fill the hole.

Anyway next time I'm with the boat I'll take some measurements and pictures and post a question for Jacques about it, until then I welcome any other opinions on it.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:26 pm
by TomW1
I would not worry about the various holes in the stringer. They are above the 1/2 height and are not spaced one over the other. If you want to be sure put a piece of fiber glass on each side.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:12 am
by joe2700
I'm making a big push to get the deck down over the holidays. Working remotely to be able to work on the boat after work. Got a bit behind my plans being sick for a few days but here's what I have gotten done over the past week.

I finished sanding the inside. Then I drilled the transom drain so all the below deck drainage is in place. This allowed me to clean out the boat with the hose which really helped with the dust after all that sanding.
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I glued in the supports for the fuel tank platform. Their angle results in the top being flat.
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I finished building the platform connecting the horizontal and vertical pieces with a fillet and biax each side(not picturedI).
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At Jacques suggestion I added 2 more layers of biax to each side of the stringer near the large hole I had drilled.
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I cut the motorwell bottom. After taking this picture I made it a bit shorter so that instead of going to the top of E it would be short of the top with a 2" vertical surface which I think looks better.
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Also cut one more part of the forward seating and storage.
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I dry fit the tank platform after cutting the hole for the fuel chase tube
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I took some time to organize the tools in my christmas present for myself.
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And finally I glassed one side of the sole, and other pieces I recently cut. Tomorrow I will glass the other side of all those then start fitting the cleats.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:02 am
by OrangeQuest
Nice looking work!

One thing you may want to consider is the sole and deck is to glass the topside after they are glued into the boat. You will be filleting the edges and then taping. May be easier to fair if the glass is put on last.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:24 am
by Jeff
Nice progress and a great Christmas gift!!!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:25 am
by Bogieman
She's looking really good!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:49 pm
by joe2700
OrangeQuest wrote: Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:02 am Nice looking work!

One thing you may want to consider is the sole and deck is to glass the topside after they are glued into the boat. You will be filleting the edges and then taping. May be easier to fair if the glass is put on last.
Thanks. I wanted two layers of the cloth on the top for durability/impact resistance so for the second layer I’ll be doing what your suggest. After it’s glued down and the edges are filleted/taped I’ll put that last layer on across the sole and all the way up the sides as carefully as I can to minimize the inside fairing as much as possible.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:52 pm
by OrangeQuest
Good deal then! :)

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:10 am
by joe2700
After glassing the other side of the sole I added stiffeners across each unsupported span. I've seen some other people report slight flexing with the 3/8 sole and I didn't want to worry about it. Might have not been a problem, but not something you can do anything about once the sole is down, so figured I'd belt and suspenders it for piece of mind.

First I roughly marked the locations of the stingers and frames with painters tape. Then marked a cross in each cell staying 2.5 inches away from any stringer, frame, or edge.
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I made a bunch of small triangular strips from douglas fir and cut them to fit the marks dry fitting them all.
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Then I glued them all down with gel magic out of the cartridge with a mixing tip. Really is perfect for this type of application. In the past I had been using a cheap hardware store caulking gun and struggled with it but this time I had a nice one from Jamestown Distributors and it worked so much better. Other than the cost per ounce I highly recommend the stuff. Pictured here is my attempt at even "clamping" pressure.
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I also made my biggest ever amazon purchase of over 50 items, I'd say about 70 percent of the hardware for the boat. Very exciting other than the bill. Next will be to run one layer of biaxial tape over all the stiffeners, then on to cleats.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:04 pm
by joe2700
I finished adding the stiffeners to the bottom of the sole. This album shows adding the biax over each one and then after a coat of neat epoxy. I don't normally like putting a coat of epoxy over glass as it feels like extra weight for no strength, but with all the edges the glass was a little too rough without it. It was the fastest way I could get a good enough finish. I did quickly sand the after the epoxy so it's ready for paint, just didn't grab a picture.
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Also got the majority of the giant amazon order. This pile of boxes is about 90% of the hardware for the boat ignoring the outboard, batteries, and steering system. Everything in 316 stainless as much as possible. You'll start seeing these pieces being fitted in next month hopefully. Had and afternoon going through all of it with a beer by the fire.
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With the stiffeners done cleats and paint are all that separate me from glueing the sole down. Still I slid the sole in and dropped in a few other panels I've already cut since it's nice motivation to see it looking more like a finished boat fro time to time.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:57 pm
by Bogieman
Wow! That looks really good

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:35 am
by Rmarsh
Excellent work! Great pictures....I'm enjoying watching your build coming together.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:08 am
by Jeff
joe2700, great progress!! Looks like Santa came a little late to your house!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:36 pm
by narfi
I like your floor reinforcements, I did something similar for my front deck. Hopefully I wont regret not doing it for the rest of the floor.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:21 pm
by joe2700
Thanks for the encouragement everyone.

Yes Jeff, Santa came late but in full force.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:37 pm
by joe2700
I know I've seen a great post about how to make waterproof hatches but now I can't find it. Anyone know what I'm talking about and where it is?

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:06 am
by joe2700
This weekend I started by dimensioning the douglass fir for cleats. It's hard to get this year so I had a mix of 4x4's and 2x4's to start with. Ended up with a stack of ~1.5" x 1.5" pieces that should make all the sole cleats at least.
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While I had the boat out of the garage I also cut the sides out for the console. Unfortunately found it to be a bit to short. I'll work out later if I need to cut it again or can just add on to it some way. Aside from being 1.5" - 2" inches too short I think it works well in the boat. Ignore the funny shape the front, a seat will add on to that.
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Also cut a gap at the aft end of the sole and radiused the edge, this will be a little gutter for the drains.
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Next I cut out the back of the anchor locker and tops for the anchor locker and stern lockers. None of these will be permanently attached until I can make the hatches in them, so they will just sit off to the side for now. The back of the anchor locker is cut high so I can arch it a little. I don't think a completely flat deck on the bow will look good.
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Next big project is to install the cleats. I started by cutting the ones on the frames just cutting off the inside corners at 45° to make room for the fillets. On the outside ends I needed more cuts and some touch up with the flap disk to get them to sit against the outside of the hull right. Felt like I was making giant pencils. I also used a makeshift router table you round over the edge that isn't going to be touching anything.
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I ended up getting them all dry fit other than the hull sides, so getting them all glued in next time should be doable. I wish they fit together a little tighter, should have been a bit more careful, but no gaps gel magic won't fill and it won't make any practical difference.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:59 am
by Jeff
Nice progress Joe2700!!! jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:36 am
by Fair WX Pilot
Hi, the boat looks great. I found the cleats took much longer to make and install than I first imagined. Yours look great and really helps start defining the sole area.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:40 pm
by Bogieman
Wow! Very nice work

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:59 pm
by joe2700
Fair WX Pilot wrote: Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:36 am Hi, the boat looks great. I found the cleats took much longer to make and install than I first imagined. Yours look great and really helps start defining the sole area.
Just one more thing that seems simple but takes 3-4x how long you expected when you get to actually doing it.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:18 am
by Rmarsh
Looks great!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:54 pm
by joe2700
Now this picture looks almost like the last one I posted a few weeks ago, but I promise there was progress, there's now adhesive between the cleats and frames. Today I glued in all the frames I dry fit last time.
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While I hadn't been able to make it down to where I'm working on the boat for a few weeks I did make some progress from home in the city. We have a a great local maker-space(https://artisansasylum.com). Giant building with full woodshop, machine shop, welding shop, etc. I'm lucky enough that my employer covers membership as a perk. To accelerate the project a little I'm planning on building the console and bench there on weeknights and weekends I can't make it to the boat. With all the work the console will take in building and rigging I think this will help a lot.

I've rented a pallet sized space to store my work in progress there and moved in a few days ago. For now It's just a pile of materials, but I'll build a shelf or 2 up high for my supplies with space for the whole console underneath. Hopefully I'll have pictures of that project starting soon.
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I also went to the boat show, for the first time with a purpose other than I enjoy looking at boats. I talked to a number of local shops and marinas about buying the 60hp suzuki outboard I'm going to use. It was nice to see the motor in person and talk to some people about rigging and get at least a ballpark price so I know what to expect. Manufactures are so shy about the prices it's as bad as the car buying process. I didn't buy this one pictured but the consensus price seems to be about 8000-9000 installed with the required accessories. I'll be requesting a quote from a number of shops shortly to do better than that if possible, but at least now I have an idea.
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Last was paint. I'm going to use awlcraft 2000, red on the outside and white on the inside. I have been thinking for a while of using claret red, but it's so hard to decide based on pictures, and I had no idea what white to use. At the show I was able to get a catalog with actual paint chips from the awlgrip booth which is so much better than online or the printed ones. I was also able to see a few full boats painted in claret red. Based on that I think claret is one shade too dark and I'm leaning towards Vivid red. Vidid red was way too bright looking online, but I like the actual paint chip. I got some cards of marinas that spray awlgrip so I'll reach out to them in a few months. I'll need to pick a white at some point too, there are a lot of shades of white.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:57 am
by Rmarsh
Hi Joe: That 60 hp Suzuki will be just right ....plenty of power and economical to run. Dam outboards... cost as much or more than the hull in some cases! I went with a used but low hours 4 stroke Yamaha......but then found it needed carbs rebuilt :doh:
Like your color scheme ...seen it on Eastern boats like the one at the boat show and it looks great. I have read and seen some dark reds fades quickly though. Building the console is time consuming and its cool that you have that artisian space available to do it.......looking forward to seeing it come together!

Bob

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:55 am
by joe2700
I want the openings to my chase tubes to be a little above deck level to prevent water from getting in them if water was ever in the console. The chase tubes are a straight path from the self draining part of the boat to the bilge. I made 2 little towers to go where the chase tubes come through the sole which I plan to attach to the sole before glueing it down.
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I also drew out the footprint of my planned console on the template of the sole to make sure it fit well. It does, but there's very little space for batteries. I need to look at either extending the length of the console, spreading the chase tubes out into one line instead of 2 clusters, or both. Might need to replace the 2 little risers if I do that but oh well.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:00 pm
by joe2700
Finished building my storage at the maker space, so I should be able to start on the actual console next week. Still need to figure out if I need to extend it or make another modification to fit 2 group 24 batteries in there.
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I also got a few more goodies. Hydraulic steering, except the hoses since I don't know the exact length yet. I needed the helm to lay out the console. I got the 2.4 cubic inch helm to keep the turns lock to lock low which shouldn't be too much effort at all with just a 60hp outboard. I wanted the back mount but that would have been an extra $200+ which was crazy, so I'll just inset the front mount helm if needed.

Also picked up massive 00 battery cables to run from the outboard to batteries, nice bilge pump hose instead of that crappy corrugated stuff that falls apart, and a nice big sheet of g10 to make backing plates for everything.

Should have 95% of the hardware needed other than the motor itself at this point.
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One pro tip if you like using gel magic cartirdges. System 3 sells the tips, $10.50 for 6 so $1.75 each. Jamestown distributors sells the tips for their similar thixo adhesive at $29.99 for 60 so $0.50 each. Well I took a gamble and they seem compatible so big win there.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:54 pm
by joe2700
I made all my side cleats for below the sole and some of the ones for bow and stern storage too. I took a number of measurements of the angle along the hull. I then broke up each span into about 6"-7" pieces and cut all those to the right angle on the table saw. In the middle of the boat the angle didn't change much so they are all the same. Towards the ends I would change the angle 1-2˚ between each piece. I also rounded the corner that won't be in contact with anything.
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Next I tackled a little project I had been worried about. I have some nice stainless through-hulls to use for cockpit drains, they will be connected to the same thing(except with flapper) on the stern with a short piece of hose. My sole ends with a rounded edge about 1/2" in front of E to form a small channel at the back of the cockpit to help drain water. I want the opening to the drain to be as close to flush with the bottom of that channel as possible, but the through-hulls have nice big flanges. So I needed to cut the flange off one side without trashing the expensive through-hulls.

I figured it would be easier to drill the holes for these before the sole was in so I went for it. Used a cut off wheel on the angle grinder to get within 1/8" and then coarse and fine hand files to flatten it out. Honestly wasn't as hard as I expected and I got pretty close. I think they are going to look sweet. When I finally install them I might take off a bit more material to get even lower, but that can be done carefully then.

Put a few scratches in them but I've decided to polish all the stainless before final installation instead of being super careful with each piece as it's fitted.
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I then fit the bow eye. I needed to both add a flat to the outside where it would sit, and know where it will sit inside for when I reinforce the upper bow area to make sure the eye and bow cleat are well anchored. I eyeballed where I wanted it height wise then drilled 3/16" pilot holes followed by the 1/2" holes. There's a lot of glass in that area, I'm not too worried about the bow eye. I cut a piece of g10 just larger than the washer on the bow eye, then I used the mini belt sander followed by a coarse file to flatten a place for it on the outside.

I taped up the eye and used it to clamp on the g10 while the adhesive cured.
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Then I went from stern to bow gluing in all the cleats. I would apply some gel magic to bout 5 at a time. Then one at a time I'd use a small plastic toothed spread to spread the adhesive everywhere except a spot in the middle, apply hot glue to that spot, and hold it in place for about 10 seconds. Got a good rhythm going but it still took a while, there were a lot of them, I'd say 60 plus.
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Last thing was gluing in the console towers, just held with some masking tape. Slowly but surely I'm getting closer to getting that sole glued down.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:57 pm
by Fair WX Pilot
Nice work. The through hull turned out great.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:44 pm
by joe2700
Thanks Fair WX Pilot.

I only had a few hours yesterday before I had to leave so I mostly tidied the shop, inspected my work, and pondered the coming steps.

One thing I did realize was that I might have a problem with my motorwell bottom. Because I raised the stringers the aft end of it was sitting 2 inches higher than planned. When I measured down from the top of the transom it was about 10" down, which is exactly where the bottom bolts from the outboard will go. Luckily it was cold enough the gel magic was gummy but not cured, so one good whack with a mini sledge removed each of the cleats I had installed for it. I cut a relief in the stringers to lower the motorwell by about an inch, and glued the cleats back on after cleaning them up.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:23 pm
by Fuzz
Good catch on the motor well Joe. I like how you did the drains. Not sure why I never thought of doing them that way. You are building a fine boat and posting a great build thread.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:59 am
by joe2700
My goal for a while now has been to finish the boat by the end of June this year. I've been ramping up how many hours I spend on the boat but finally did some planning to see if it's possible. I planned out March and April in pretty good detail, and May and June with some milestones. I'm going to need a few weeks at the end to get the boat painted and registered, so I have a just about 2 months to get the boat ready for paint. Working the hull almost every weekend and the console and seat on weekdays I think it's doable, but we'll see. Put the schedule right next to my head so I can keep track of how I'm doing.
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Worst case as long as the major construction is done at the end of June I can do the rest over the summer. Going to do my best to have it done by 6/30.

I've been trying to figure out how to fit my batteries in the console still having some room for storage, without making the console too big. My battery holders arrived so I could go try out some positions. I think I'll keep the console as designed, let the batteries take up most of the space, and just put a storage shelf over the batteries.
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Last thing today was to fillet the cleats. Filled in any gaps between them, then did a tiny fillet underneath with just my finger. Just to have a sealed small radius for paint, not a big strong fillet for glass.
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Got the heat cranked right now to try and get this stuff to cure ASAP, as I've got a tight schedule this weekend. Hopefully an hour at 80 will give it a good head start.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:30 am
by Bogieman
Nice work! Love the raised sheer version of this boat.

Bogie

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:52 am
by joe2700
Well, I don't think I have ever underestimated how long something would take as badly as tonight. The entire hull fairing process would be the only contender.

First I roughly leveled the tops of the cleats with the power planer and 40 grit sandpaper on the sander. The planer makes a lot of chips, it's still new so nice and sharp. I roughly sanded under the cleats as well, where I applied ez fillet yesterday.
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Then it was time to prime under the sole and in the storage areas. I Figured 1-2 hours including wiping everything down during the induction period. I think just wiping everything down took me an hour. The entire process must have taken about 6 hours to apply a half gallon of paint. I can't even believe it typing that but it did. There's just so many little corners I did basically the entire thing with a 1.5" brush. Just using the roller on the bottom of the sole and hull bottom. Those are nothing compared to the sides of the stringers and up under the cleats.
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To add insult to injury the clocks sprang forward in the middle of the painting, so my cell phone was reading even an hour longer by the end.

I'll be doing just the one coat of primer as it't really just a little insurance, the totalbilge bilge paint doesn't need primer over epoxy. Total bilge is 1-2 coats, and after this experience I'm really hoping 1 over the primer is enough, but we'll just have to see.

At adding paint always looks like a lot of progress, even just one sloppy one of primer.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:32 pm
by BassMunn
Nice looking build. I've always liked the lines of the FS17.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:55 am
by joe2700
BassMunn wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:32 pm Nice looking build. I've always liked the lines of the FS17.
Thanks BassMunn I'm loving the shape too. I do appreciate the advice I got early on to keep a close eye on the bow if you prefer the pointed up look which I do. I think that problem was easier for me to address with the raised sheer since I could keep the second panel higher at the bow.

I was hoping to get bilge coat down this weekend but I just wasn't convinced the primer was fully cured so I held off. Every day counts at this point but a failure of the paint to adhere would doom my deadline so better safe than sorry. I have a few friends coming down to help next weekend so we should knock out 2 coats of bilge coat and some other odd jobs.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:47 am
by Jeff
Nice work & progress joe2700!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:43 pm
by joe2700
This past weekend I enlisted 2 friends to help. Goal was to get 2 coats of bilge paint down under the sole, on the sole bottom, on the tank support, and in the storage areas. After how long it took me to prime I was happy to have the help. We sanded, alcohol wiped, and painted in about 3 hours so close to 1/3 the time it took me to do alone.

I used Jamestown Distributors totalbilge paint in grey. It was thick and smelly. We applied the first coat and let it sit overnight. It dried to the touch quickly but took a little over 12 hours to feel completely cured. They quote a dry time of 8 hours at 70˚F and 12 hours at 50˚F. I imagine the temp dropped below 50 overnight even though it was a little higher than that right after we finished.

Same process the second day except we thinned about 10% with their special brushing thinner to make application easier. This did make it easier to brush and roll on, but also seemed to speed the cure time, so you had to work fast. The final result was a thick high gloss finish that filled but did not hide minor imperfections. Very happy overall. I wish I faired the inside of the storage areas before painting, but you have to draw the line somewhere to get the boat done. This finish should at least make it easy to keep them clean.
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Back in the city I started to build the console. I cut out the side panels and temporarily stuck them together with two 2x4s. I then cut the majority of the square panels for the console. I like my jobsite sawstop at home but man are the bigger sawstops with full outfeed table nice to use. Should be able to start putting this pile of parts together with screws soon, to be glued once I'm sure about the whole thing. I will also play around with temporary panels where the controls go first, so I can play with layouts before cutting the good ply.
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I already know where the compass will go so I laid that out on the very top panel. I used calipers to mark the circle like I would on metal and was surprised how well it worked with ply.
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Excited to keep making progress on this console and start to get all the parts on it.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:42 am
by Bogieman
Very nice!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:47 am
by joe2700
Last week I moved to a larger spot in the maker space that I can actually work in, instead of just storage. Remade my shelves into a desk and shelves. Console should take shape this week then trying different layouts will begin.
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This weekend I leveled the tops of the cleats with a power planer and sander. I also removed paint from the bottom of the fuel tank support where it glues on and glued it in.
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Next I installed the chase tubes I had previously fit. Used system three's sa-2100 which is a 5200 replacement. Cured by mixing instead of external moisture so it cures overnight no matter how thick, and can be stored even once opened. Seems to be a good product. It was applied liberally below the sole, I don't want any rattling pipes later.
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Last I glued the sole in. After a final confirmation of fit I clamped a board on frame A to support the front and rigged up the back with straps and a board. Climbed under and spread a healthy coat of gel magic on both the sole and cleats with a notched trowel. Hooded tyvek was key here or my head would be glued to the bottom of the sole right now. This took a while and the glue was pretty firm but still completely sticky and malleable when I finished. Then I used the gel magic from a cartridge to run a thick bead down the middle of every frame and just dropped it down into place.

Walked around a little to make sure it was stable, not resting on a high spot. I didn't want to use screws or anything that could cause a low spot so I mostly relied on the weight of the sole along with a bit of extra weight to hold it down. Seems to be a nice flat deck and honestly with the sticky gel magic it wasn't moving much as all just as I walkedaround. I added the caps to where the chase tubes come out and that was it for this weekend.
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Sole down feels like another major milestone, but need to keep the momentum going. Biax tape around the edge of the sole and then a layer of cloth across the sole and up the sides is next, then frames and side decks.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:14 am
by pee wee
Very nice. I like the way you're working so methodically, thinking ahead and completing each step in good fashion.
Congratulations on the milestone, the build is looking great! 8)

. . and thanks for posting photos of each step, great job of documentation.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:38 am
by Capt UB
joe2700 wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:00 am
narfi wrote: Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:52 pm
Maybe I missed something.... Why do you need to sand or paint below the sole? It will be covered and sealed off right?
I'll be using epoxy primer and epoxy based bilge paint(TotalBilge) below the sole and inside all storage areas. Compartments under the sole will be limbered together fore and aft with plugs at frame E, so I'll have 3 separate watertight areas that can be opened to check for water. I will certainly be going for sealed off, but I've found on boats a little water gets everywhere eventually, and I hate foam on boats so this is my solution for longevity. I'll need to sand just enough for the paint to stick and to get rid of any rough areas water or dirt/mold would collect.

Thank you, just found this post of yours. I'm at that point of how to do the underside of the sole. I'm not wanting to do foam, but want to add limber holes and adding support like a few others under the sole or on the sole ply. Thanks I have bookmarked this on my computer.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:09 pm
by joe2700
Capt UB wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:38 am
Thank you, just found this post of yours. I'm at that point of how to do the underside of the sole. I'm not wanting to do foam, but want to add limber holes and adding support like a few others under the sole or on the sole ply. Thanks I have bookmarked this on my computer.


Hopefully it feels rock solid, I'll be jumping all over it the next time I'm at the boat to find out. Not that I can do anything about it now but I'm hopeful.

Yesterday I started putting the console together with temporary pine cleats. I think I will eventually use fillets, but might use douglas fir cleats instead, haven't decided yet.

Going to install all the panels this way, then take the ones the controls go on back out, replacing them with template material for now. Then I'll play around with where to put everything and put the real panels back in once that's locked down.

I am about to pull the trigger on a Suzuki 60hp and the dealer is giving me the controls now so I can place them, and I will come back for motor install in a few months.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:40 pm
by BB Sig
joe2700 wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:09 pm
Yesterday I started putting the console together with temporary pine cleats. I think I will eventually use fillets, but might use douglas fir cleats instead, haven't decided yet.
I think the pine cleats will be fine as long as they don’t have loose knots and you do a triple coating of epoxy. I believe that is what the designer specifies.

You’re making great progress!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:14 pm
by joe2700
BB Sig wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:40 pm
I think the pine cleats will be fine as long as they don’t have loose knots and you do a triple coating of epoxy. I believe that is what the designer specifies.

You’re making great progress!
I think the pine would be strong enough but I'm not taking the time to fit them well, I'm cutting them all square and short. I don't want sharp edges in the console so I would have to recut them to be triangular and properly mitered together anyway. If I have to redo it anyway I'll use fir or epoxy fillets.

I cut a bunch more panels yesterday but only had time to install one. I wanted to put a part on though so I installed the compass just for my own satisfaction.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:07 pm
by joe2700
I was back at the boat just for an hour or two last weekend. Walked around the deck and it felt ok. Mostly solid but still a tiny bit of flex if I actually jump in a few places. Wish I had just done 1/2" but oh well, it will be fine. Don't think you'll notice it normally. Glad I at least added the stiffeners.

Back in the city I made some progress on the console. Installed a few more pieces and started working on the layout again. I have ordered the motor now so in a week or two I'll get the controls and gauges to play around with.
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Also roughly put together the front seat and slid it in. Happy with that and getting close to having the basic structure done. I'm struggling with a few of the pieces that have been sitting around as offcuts for a while and are a little warped, so I'll need to figure out how to force them straight or replace a few of them for final assembly.
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This weekend I'll put a final layer of cloth down the sides and across the sole, then on to side frames.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:26 am
by joe2700
I ran the tapes all around the sole and used a small bit of fillet material to relieve the hard edge the biax tape leaves.
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Then I laid out the final layer of cloth for the entire inside. Also protected the painted areas.
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Glassed the entire inside. Was an ok layup, too much resin in places as the epoxy started to kick. I'm used to working in the high 50°s low 60°s then heating afterwards, but it was almost 70° out which is crazy for this time of year. Shouldn't be too bad to sand up, and now there is no exposed biax to deal with deeper weave.
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Also fit the stern eyes to be ready to trailer when needed. I think they look a little silly this low, but wanted them to be solidly in the thick part of the transom.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:17 am
by OrangeQuest
Very nice, clean work!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:09 am
by Jeff
Nice work and progress!!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:45 am
by joe2700
Thanks guys. I'm taking a few days off this week and will be working from here the rest of the week to keep progress going on this project. Planning to work from here about half of the time in May and June in addition to taking about a week off total. Still aiming for a beginning of July launch if possible, but definitely this summer.

Today I picked up the controls and gauges from the Suzuki dealer so when I'm back in the city the next 2 weeks I can finalize the console layout.

I then spent a bunch of time sanding the entire inside I glassed last time. I want to get the frames installed, but figure fairing the inside will be easier without them in the way, so I'll try to get the fairing out of the way. As if fairing ever goes to schedule :roll:. After I was done sanding I plugged the limber holes and taped bags over the chase tubes so I could bring it outside to rinse out.
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Next I started working on a base for the console according to my design. This will both ensure the console ends up fitting in the boat, and be a frame to force the bottom of the console into shape as I build it. I mocked it up, traced the cuts, precut them with a utility knife to reduce tearout, and cut the parts out.
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Test fit it in the console and it looks right. I test fit it with the whole console just forgot to take a picture.
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I went to glue it up and found my self in the situation I almost always end up in when gluing something on the floor, realizing after the fact I don't have enough weight on it, and stacking random crap on top until everything is flat.
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Pulled the boat back in to dry overnight and like most things it looks great while wet and shiny.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:40 am
by OrangeQuest
Looking good!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:57 pm
by joe2700
Got the console in the boat temporarily and was happy to find there's enough room to walk around it. I think the front face looks a little big for the boat but happy with it other than that.
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I continued working on the base. Cut out some osb a little bigger than it that I'll put some small casters on to roll it around while working.
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I also started cutting the g10 which I will attach the console base vertically to bolt through when installing the console. Cutting that stuff sucks. I tried to use some diamond jig saw blades for ceramics which cut it ok but even with the straight edge would wander in one direction for some reason. Eventually I just sacrificed the backup tablesaw blade and made all the cuts.

The g10 is also for backing plates for the bow and stern eyes and outboard. On the transom I've been worried the motorwell bottom is too close to he bottom outboard mounting bolts. I took out the square and measured the transom, finding it a bit under 20". If I add a strip of g10 to the top of the transom it will be almost exactly 20", buy me enough space between the motorwell bottom and outboard bolt, level the uneven top, and protect the top of the transom from the heavy outboard during installation, so that's my plan. Just need to cut another strip of the stuff.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:01 pm
by Jeff
Nice work!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:36 pm
by Bogieman
Very nice work.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:00 pm
by joe2700
Fit the backing plates for the stern eyes. I centered them on the existing holes and marked the edges so I could remove the paint. Knocked the paint off with a flap disk. Drilled pilot holes and then the full 1/2" holes. Sharp bits are key for this stuff and you'll be sharpening them again soon. Then dry fit in place. The eye could use to be about 1/2" longer as you can see from the last pic. I won't be using these weird security nuts that came with these but I don't think the nylon of a nylock would quite engage either. The threads all engage so it should be strong enough and I can just use a normal bolt with threadlocker if needed. I could also skip the washer on the inside with how hard g10 is.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:58 am
by joe2700
At the stern I glued in the backing plates for both eyes at the outboard. For the outboard plate I used the motorwell bottom to wedge the bottom in and put some clamps across the top. For the stern eyes I put some packing tape on the eyes leaving just the end of the threads exposed, and used the eye itself as the clamp. Was careful to tape everything up and remove as much tape as possible before the glue dried.
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At the bow I have both a backing plate for the eye, but also extend that structure up to where it will tie in to the beam under the bod deck. I dry fit both pieces, then drilled holes in the backing plate to put the eye through. I also screwed a few strips of plywood together and put matching holes in one end. The idea was to put the strip over both the backing plate and wood piece above, so when I tighten the bow eye it would pull them into the same plane.

There were bigger gaps here so in addition to the gel magic on the back of the backing plate I put bunch of ez fillet down to bed the pieces in. I put the bow eye through everything and tightened it down, and added one clamp to the top where the plywood strip wasn't applying enough pressure. I removed the excess squeeze out and roughly smoothed the edges with my finder before removing the tape.
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Everything seemed to go on well, we'll see tomorrow when I remove the clamps.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 11:59 pm
by joe2700
Bow looked good when I removed the clamps. I'll just tidy up the edges.
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I also glued on the transom top. I was hoping to make the transom top perpendicular to the transom while doing this but the piece definitely tilted to match the current angle as I clamped it. Decided that wasn't a big enough deal to fight curing glue and left it.
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For the console base I cut little blocks at the correct angle for each panel. I applied gel magic to the edge of the g10 and used my little blocks with hot glue to glue the g10 strips on.
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Next day I knocked the blocks out with a hammer and test fit the console. Fit looked good.
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Last I added fillets and glass to the whole thing.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 7:45 am
by Jeff
Nice work joe2700!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 1:09 am
by joe2700
I started last weekend by doing a rough fairing of the inside. At this point I intend to leave final fairing to whoever paints the boat just because of limited time. But it was so much easier to do before the frames are in the way I did apply a quick coat to the entire inside, sides and sole. Machine sanded it all the next day, going for smooth not truly fair on the inside.
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Next I fit the drain plug. The hole existed but I drilled then over drilled the screw holes. Still need to fill them. I also cut and sanded the length down as it was much longer than my transom thickness.
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Next big project is the side frames and deck. For the frames I ripped douglass fir 1x4s (so actually 3/4" x 3 1/2") down to 2 1/2" wide. They now had one round edge and one flat edge. At each station I took the angle between the sole and side, transferring it to the frame. I cut it at that angle and used some sand paper to knock off the corner to make room for the fillet.
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For the tops I put a 2x6 across the top of the rub rail, and marked that on the frames. I marked another parallel line 3/4" lower to make room for the eventual cleats, and cut the frames at that line.
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Next I needed deck supports at each frame and halfway between each frame, plus a few others. I cut a bunch of 10" x 4" plywood pieces as my decks will be 10" wide. At the stern they will be 5" wide to make room for the hatches, so I made a few 5" ones too.
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Using the 2x6 again I took the angle between the side and imaginary level line across the top. If I was thinking at the time I would have realized this was just 180°- the angle between the sole and side. I marked that angle on the deck supports.
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Then I made another line 5° more shallow, to tilt the deck 5° outboard. I also marked notches for the cleats, and cut that all out.
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This next part really needed a third hand so no pictures. I put a ruler across the top of each deck support and moved it up and down the frame until the ruler was flat across the deck support and just touching the rub rail. I marked that on the frame, then made a line 1/8" lower and attached the deck support to the frame at that level. This is so the side decks will be 1/4" proud of the rub rail, but sit 1/8" below.
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Here you can see them all sitting in place.
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I also made some for the stern...
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...and some for the bow. At the bow I then used them to lay a baton across to mark the curve of the dow deck, and of course I didn't leave enough room on that panel. I'll replace that with a taller piece and mark a nice curve on it.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:02 pm
by joe2700
I made cleats for all the deck supports. Ripped a bunch of douglas fir 1x4s into 3/4" square strips. Left a few long to go between the frames/supports, and cut a bunch on the chop saw to go across the frames/supports. Used gel magic to glue the supports at frames onto the frames, and glue 2 cleats on every support. Then they were ready to go in the boat. I glued the frames into the boat(no pic) but still need to glue in the rest of the supports, then add fillets and glass to everything.
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The side decks will go into the bow deck of course so I needed to make some progress up there as well. I needed to make my first hatch before I could glue in the bottom of the anchor locker, so that was my next project. I made a template of the cutout with mdf, screwed that to the frame, and used a router to cut it out. This left a 1/4" gap on all sides when I think 1/8" would have been better, but there's no way I could make this clean of a cut with a circ saw and jig saw. 1/4" doesn't actually look as big as I thought.
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Next I made the hatch frame out of douglas fir 2x4. I screwed it together and test fit it, when that looked good I took it apart to cut the gutter. I meant to also take 1/8" off the surface the hatch rests on at this point, to make room for the gasket, but I forgot. Instead I glued the frame together with 2 wings at the top to span the entire distance to the hull. Not pictured I used the table saw to cut the top across even at the right angle.
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Next I added the latch. I used the template first and it took 2 tries to find the right distance from the top for the catch to line up inside the frame. Now I know the perfect measurement unfortunately I measure from the wrong place and was 1" off when I cut the real hatch. Oh well I cut the overlapping correct hole and was able to just spin the resulting half circle around to fix my mistake. The extra plywood backing at the latch made gluing that back in easy.

I put 1/4" spacers all around the hatch while the frame was clamped in, and then with it centered attached the hinges and catch for the latch. I now had a working hatch, and was so satisfied I probably opened and closed it 15 times.
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I took the frame out and used the router to remove the 1/8" from the surface the hatch contacts that I forgot to remove on the table saw earlier. Then I taped everything off and glued the frame in with about 90% of the clamps I own. With that glued in frame A feels very solid even though that top strip was so thin, so I can now paint the back of the hatch frame with bilge paint, and glue down the anchor locker bottom.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:53 pm
by joe2700
I also tried the wheel and throttle in the console since their depth is important and earlier I was laying stuff out in 2D. As suspected the wheel sticks out too far with the large help pump. I had wanted the flush mount helm but they were just too expensive. I'll have to sink that part of the panel where the wheel mounts in about 3 inches. Also need to move the throttle another 2" or so away from the wheel. There are some adjustments to make but it was nice to finally put my hands on the controls.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:26 am
by joe2700
Glued in the anchor locker bottom and then and aft side. It was angled back a little so I used 2 clamps to pull it forward while the glue cured.
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Next I worked on my side deck supports. I had already glued in the 6 frames and seem to have no pictures of that part. Between each frame I needed to add 1-2 more deck supports. I clamped 2 batons across the tops of the frame deck supports, then clamped the intermediate deck supports to the batons. Used the laser level to keep them level vertically. I used hot glue on little angled scrap to hold them while the glue cured. It was fiddly work but I'm happy with the end result. All deck supports including the one on the back of the bow deck and the one on the transom are installed.

One thing I wasn't sure about was installing the side deck supports at right angled to the hull where they are, or at a right angle to the centerline. I ended up doing a right angle to the centerline which means the side deck width will vary. Was worried this would look wrong but clamping a baton on temporarily I think it looks good.
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I also started on my next 2 hatches for the aft corner hatches. I shaped and glued up the frames, then epoxy coated them. Used the xtra mixed epoxy to start sealing the deck supports.
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One last funny thing. My batteries arrived, Northstar AGMs. When they arrived they had QR codes on the top, which was curious. Figured it was for advertising or inventory control. Then I noticed they had a MAC address printed on the top, which makes no sense as it's for computer networking. It turns out these batteries each have a bluetooth chip in them, and if you download an app you can get their voltage, temp, charge state, and remaining capacity from the battery itself wirelessly. Go figure, that's a new one to me.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:27 am
by joe2700
I'm back at it after my summer hiatus where I can't access the boat. In the spring I was making a big push. At first it was to finish, then just to make some good progress once I realized that wasn't going to happen. Overall the only construction left is to install the side decks, bow deck(with anchor locker), console, and seat. I think I'm in a good place to finish over the fall and winter without rushing too much, and getting everything just how I want it for an early spring launch. We'll see if this schedule come any more true than all the ones I've thrown out up to this point!

In my last week before summer I got a bit of work done I never posted.

I broke off temporary supports for deck supports that I had hot glued on while the epoxy cured. For some of them the hot glue was actually too strong, and I had to use the smooth blade on the multitool to melt it off. Scraped off any left over hot glue.
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The back few feet of side deck are half the width of the rest to make room for the hatches to open. I made a piece to transition from the wide deck to narrow deck. Started be templating the transition then cutting out 2 curved cleats.
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I filleted and glassed all frames and deck supports after taping off for drips. I hate cleaning up drips. I did the same in the anchor locker. I gave it all a quick sand bug have not faired it in.
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I spent some time thinking about swim ladder placement. I got one that will go nice and deep, but it's made to attach to the top of a swim platform so I'll need to modify the mounting. Other considerations are keeping it tilted away from the transom when in use, and not getting in the way of the stern eye in either position. Still working on something that will work here, but it will almost certainly be lower than pictured.
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I packed it all up for summer and took off.
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Over the summer I got my switch panel from new wire marine along will all my wiring hardware. Not cheap but it's going to look great and save me a lot of time. I'm going to change the layout a little, but that's as simple as changing the switch covers and swapping any circuit breakers if required, no re wiring.
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My wiring diagram is 95% complete. It doesn't include the NMEA 2000 network or other one offs like speaker wire or the transducer, just the 12 volt stuff. I'm hoping having this all planned in advance will help me keep the wiring neat.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:39 am
by Jeff
Nice progress!!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:10 am
by narfi
Looks great!
I cant tell for sure, but your gunwale template seems to stop between frames, you want to make sure all the deck splices end on frames so the splice isnt floating unsupported.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:44 am
by joe2700
narfi wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:10 am Looks great!
I cant tell for sure, but your gunwale template seems to stop between frames, you want to make sure all the deck splices end on frames so the splice isnt floating unsupported.
You are right about the template, but I was only using it for looks and to make curved part of the cleat. I'll make sure that area is all a single piece of plywood. It's a good reminder, I know someone on the forum was recently doing some repairs for a side deck splice like that that cracked after being unsupported.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:49 am
by joe2700
joe2700 wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:27 am I spent some time thinking about swim ladder placement. I got one that will go nice and deep, but it's made to attach to the top of a swim platform so I'll need to modify the mounting. Other considerations are keeping it tilted away from the transom when in use, and not getting in the way of the stern eye in either position. Still working on something that will work here, but it will almost certainly be lower than pictured.
Not sure why I haven't considered just building a small swim platform and using the ladder as designed...

Sometimes I make things too complicated.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:39 pm
by joe2700
Back at it this fall. As I was unpacking stuff I spent some time on layouts before getting back to the real work.

I mocked up console more, hardware placement is almost finalized. The area the helm pump goes in will be inset 4 inches, which will result in the wheel being exactly where pictured. I'm completely happy with the bottom panel. For the top panel I'm happy now that I put the vhf over the stereo and moved the mic to the left. Still playing with placement of the gauges. Right now the small ones are one fuel and one voltage, but I'd love a second voltage gauge if I could find a good layout for it. Few options I'm playing with, I'll just use the 2 gauge layout if I don't find a better way to layout 3 gauges. I started messing with where to put the fire extinguisher, fuel fill, and antenna on the side too, but this is not at all final because I need to wait until I know about the interior layout first to not have a conflict.
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I worked on hardware layout in the stern. Two bilge pumps and a washdown pump in the middle. I'll stagger them so one bilge pump never comes on unless there is significant water.
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The port stern hatch will have a false bottom above the waterline and drain overboard. It will hold the stern anchor, fenders, and the washdown pump hose. The starboard side will have the fuel filter, battery connection, and passthrough of all other engine controls. I'm trying to do this still leaving room for my toolbox.
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I also worked on cooler placement. I'd love to put one large cooler or two small ones somewhere other than under the main seat, so I could put other storage there. Just a matter of where. I mocked up a cardboard 35 and 45 liter cooler and tried different places. Technically I can fit the smaller one at the front without blocking the hatch, but it looks dumb. I think the only possibility is against the motorwell front. There might not be enough room behind the bench though, so we'll have to see. It will just go under the main seat if no where else works.
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For a bit of real building I finished the stern hatches, other than gluing them in. I dry fit the frames, fit the hardware, then used a router to cut out the hatches. They work nicely like the front one. I think they will be decently watertight from rain and waves, other than water coming through the latches. I have no idea how to waterproof those, and didn't have much luck finding waterproof ones.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:06 pm
by Fuzz
Man that is going to be one fancy 17 foot boat :!: I am wondering if the fuel filter and battery connections should be in the same enclosed space or not? Either way you are doing a fine job.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:10 pm
by Browndog
For the swim ladder you may want to consider building a step that can be bolted trough the transom similar to the one I made for the FS 19 I built.

1335
1336
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:41 pm
by joe2700
Browndog wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:10 pm For the swim ladder you may want to consider building a step that can be bolted trough the transom similar to the one I made for the FS 19 I built.
Thanks Browndog, that's exactly the type of thing I was picturing when I realized I should just use the ladder as it's designed. Might even just glass it to the hull instead of bolting.

I'm not planning trim tabs so should be able to mount it lower down as well. Did you find you needed trim tabs on the FS19?

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:17 pm
by Browndog
The trim tabs aren’t essential, but after having had them on my last few boats, I couldn’t imagine not putting them on my brother’s boat. They are very helpful in a variety of situations.

The step could probably be fiberglassed in place, but I really wanted to build something super stout that would tie into and through the transom. My concern was that the ladder and step would act like a lever and fulcrum and I was concerned about a big guy like me cracking the joint or causing the swim step to fail. I patterned the one I built after some that I had seen on production boats and then added to the structure. The underside is also reinforced with plywood and fiberglassed with multiple layers of 12 oz biaxial cloth. Sorry that I couldn’t find a picture of the underside. There are 6 or 7 through bolts, can’t remember the exact number, with large washers on both sides attaching the swim step to the transom and 3M 5200 was used as well in the bolt holes and on the mating surfaces.

The swim step took many hours of fabrication. The transom side has to match the angle of the transom so that it will be level. It was a pain in the rear to get just right. But it is worth it. We have used it for swimming and for getting in and out of the boat when scalloping and it works great. It also adds a good measure of safety to the boat. If someone were to fall overboard there is now a way to get back into the boat. This is a real concern when boating alone as my brother has been doing lately.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:21 pm
by Browndog
Even without trim tabs I wouldn’t have mounted the swim step any lower because I didn’t want it to be underwater at rest.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:46 pm
by joe2700
Browndog wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:21 pm Even without trim tabs I wouldn’t have mounted the swim step any lower because I didn’t want it to be underwater at rest.
Gotcha, without bottom paint maybe I just wasn't picturing where the waterline really is.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:43 am
by joe2700
Alright, got a few months behind on posting updates. Made some alright progress, mainly on the console. I'll try to get caught up over the next few days.

I roughed out my side deck panels, oversized for now.
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For the console I decided to build it out of 1/2" ply. The 3/8 panels were warping and would have been a real pain to straiten. Also harder to screw anything to them without backing plates. I'd say this will add 15-20 pounds. To make life easier I glassed the plywood both sizes with cloth before cutting. Taped the edges first so that I would still have reference edges for cutting on the tablesaw, which epoxy drips would have messed up.
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For spreading large pieces of cloth like this smoothly I like a light touch with a broom.
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This also allowed me to use the 3/8 console more freely as a mockup, without worrying about holes. So I installed the electronics.
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Even with just the permanent cables from them the wiring is stacking up.
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Started with the layout of my electronics panel. This will all be easily accessible opening the console seat back, which I'm excited about, hoping I can keep the layout neat with easy access.
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One other thing I needed to do was inset the helm. The pump is so deep the wheel would stick out way too far otherwise. Here you can see layout out of this inset and different options for cupholders.
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So here is the final mockup. I'll make a few small tweaks on spacing, but overall really happy with the console. It is big for a boat this size, much bigger than a lot of you would go with I'm sure. For me, while I will fish from the boat, I spend more time having beers with friends or exploring. I spend all my time at the console, I'd rather it be comfortable and have everything within easy reach.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:25 am
by Browndog
The console looks great!

You will really benefit from customizing your console by taking the time to mock everything up and put things at a comfortable height and in a convenient location when you are using your boat.

As long as you have enough space to comfortably walk along the deck from bow to stern around the console you will not have any problems. The advantage of not having an inner liner and the extra deck space that you gain under the gunwales makes this design feel like a larger boat.

You’re making good progress.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:59 am
by Jeff
I fully agree with Browndog, great progress!!! Your console is going to be really nice!!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:34 am
by joe2700
I have a vertical panel in the middle of my console for a number of reasons. It will seal the fuel area off from the electronics, it will really stiffen the whole console, and it will provide a good place for the neat layout of the electronics I showed in the mock-up in my last post.

To access the fuel tank I was originally going to make the seat top screw down. I realized I had a problem though, I could not put the console down on the base as one unit because of the angled panels. The footprint is smaller than the tops of the g10 it screws to. To resolve both of these problems I decided to attach the front seat as a whole separate piece that slides in from the front over the fuel tank.

This meant I would use the vertical panel as another anchor point on the main console. I needed a surface for this to rest against, so I glued in a 1/2 piece to the back of the fuel tank compartment. This has the added benefit of creating space behind the fuel tank for any liquid to get to the drain tube.
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This also made an existing problem worse, the cutout for the fuel tank in the console base isn't big enough. I went ahead an enlarged it with the router. Tank has space now. I still need to deal with the 2 corners of the fuel tank area the console base doesn't cover, will deal with that once the base is glued down.
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Add console mounting point

I added another right angle mounting point to the console base for this inner panel. Seems like often in boat building a funny stack of things to weight something down is a vital part of the glue up process.
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At first while working on fitting things to the base I had it on MDF to work off a flat surface. I realized the MDF didn't really stay flat, it formed to what's under it. I also realized I don't need the bottom of the console to be flat, I need it to match the sole. So I did most of the fitting later in position in the boat.

After pre-glassing the 1/2" ply I cut out all the pieces very carefully, I want the assembly to be very neat to reduce fairing/fixing things. Well I cut the console seat very carefully 1" narrower than it should be. Rushed the last cut of the day. The console seat is a trapezoid so to fix it I needed to scarf on a thin piece that was wide enough. Cut the scarf on the table saw and the sample piece looks like a good fit.
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Glued up the scarf keeping the panel as flat as possible.
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There will still be a few 3/8 panels in the console, so I gave them a layer of cloth both sides as well as the scarfed console seat.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:38 am
by Browndog
Not sure if I understand your situation.

After glassing the underside of the console seat where you had to add in the scarfed joint you might want to reinforce the underside with another piece of plywood that covers the joint. It may be that in the future people will end up standing on the seat top and putting a lot of concentrated weight on it.

I had a similar issue on a hatch lid. Despite being covered in cloth on both sides and reinforced with biaxial cloth on the underside the joint ended up showing some cracks and had to be removed, reinforced and then re-faired, re-primed and re-painted.

Once your seat gets glued in to the console structure it will likely be harder to repair than a hatch lid.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:48 pm
by joe2700
Browndog wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:38 am
I had a similar issue on a hatch lid. Despite being covered in cloth on both sides and reinforced with biaxial cloth on the underside the joint ended up showing some cracks and had to be removed, reinforced and then re-faired, re-primed and re-painted.

Once your seat gets glued in to the console structure it will likely be harder to repair than a hatch lid.
Thanks for the warning Browndog. Was it a scarf or butt joint? If a scarf I’m surprised you had that problem, scarf joints are normally pretty strong. I cut this panel to final size after gluing the joint and glassing both sides. When I bent the off cuts they didn’t break at the scarf.

I think I have a few other factors helping me here though. 1/2 ply and the joint will be very near where the seat is attached to the console not in the middle of a panel. Flex should be much less overall than a floating hatch. Anyway, time will tell, I can’t just follow you advice to play it safe because an extra piece of ply under this joint would get in the way of the mating surface between the seat and console.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:55 pm
by joe2700
Back to catching up on posting, this is from around Christmas I think.

Not pictured I cut the preglassed 1/2" ply into the console panels traced from my mockup. Then I started putting the final console together.

I attached the sides to the base, with the whole thing on mdf to try and have a flat reference surface. I used some scrap with a square corner to make sure the side were vertical, then drilled 2 holes in the base of each and attached them to the base.
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Next I glued the top 2 panel between the sides one at a time. I'm trying to be as neat as possible with this part to prevent much fixing later. I clamped on scrap cleats protected with packing tape to hold things in place while the gel magic cured. The middle panel is temporarily installed to keep the whole thing square.
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The bottom corners of the middle panel intersect with base because it is angled in for the toe relief. I marked and cut away what interfered. Going for a tight fit here because I want the front and back of this panel to be sealed air tight from each other, since the fuel tank is on one side, and the batteries on the other.
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It fit well so I went ahead and drilled and bolted the middle panel to the base as well.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:59 pm
by Fuzz
Some really, really nice work being done! Love the update.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:52 am
by joe2700
Thanks Fuzz!

Next I glued in the console middle panel. I unattached the sides from the base and used a board and 2 wedges to spread the sides enough to get epoxy in there. I removed the wedges and it sprung back together. Re-attached to the base and one clamp and the middle panel was glued in.
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I realized that while I was trying to work on a flat surface to assemble, the sole of the boat probably isn't flat, so it would be better to assemble in situ. I moved the base and console into the boat. Dry fit the tank again to be sure.
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Next I cut all the careful angles on the console seat sides so they would join neatly against the rest of the console. This part won't be glued, it will be sealed and screwed. Removing the seat is how I will access the tank if needed.
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With the seat sides attached I could trim the front until it slid in perfectly.
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Trimming these panels accurately with the complicated angles took some interesting contraptions but I was happy with the result for the most part.
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Finally I trimmed the tops of the 3 console panels. I forgot the angle on the front panel so it doesn't align as well, but epoxy will fill no problem.
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I dropped the repaired(scarfed) top panel on top to trace the shape of the seat. There are 2 pieces of scrap clamped to the console sides to keep the seat sides from leaning out.
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With the seat all fit I glued the sides, front, and top of the seat together into one unit.
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I also glued up this little inset for the fuel fill and vent which will be set into the side of the console later.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:51 am
by pee wee
Nice work! Too bad that front panel top edge doesn't have the correct angle, just awful . . :roll: Seriously, how will the front section anchor to the main console, and will it be sealed so vapors can't migrate?

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:29 am
by joe2700
pee wee wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:51 am Nice work! Too bad that front panel top edge doesn't have the correct angle, just awful . . :roll: Seriously, how will the front section anchor to the main console, and will it be sealed so vapors can't migrate?
Alright I'll admit it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference. After working on the boat for a few years where anything within 1/4" or even more is close enough, it's fun to try snd make some decent joints.

To your question, the main part of the console will have flanges along the 3 edges that the seat will be bolted to with sealant the same way the whole thing is attached to the base. Kind of semi permanent, won't be easy to take off but it will be possible.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:25 am
by joe2700
Next up I started marking the hatch into the console onto the back panel of the console. There will be a shelf inside just high enough to clear the batteries. The shelf will be flush with the bottom of the batch opening, so the hatch opening is as big as possible. The sketch looked good other than forgetting I needed space for a battery switch down there, so I moved 1 side in a few inches before making the frame.
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I glued up the frame and test fit it, you can see there is a gap on the right side which the battery switch will fit in.
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I had also glued up the frame for the console seat back hatch which you can see me test fitting here. This is how you will access all the wiring.
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After that I made the side flanges to secure the seat to the console, like you were asking about pee wee. I cut enough of a kerf that they would bend just more than the angle to match the angle of the seat sides, but still had some spring to them. With them glued to the main console I filled the kerf with epoxy and just pushed the seat into position. After the epoxy cured I pulled the seat off and they were at the perfect angle, from pushing back out against the console due to that springiness.
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For the top flange I needed it to be a tiny bit high to actually support the seat as built without a gap. I used the table saw to remove about 1 layer of plywood from the side that would attach to the main console. That way once glued on from the bottom the part the seat rested on was 1 plywood layer higher, supporting the seat without a gap.
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In this picture from the little later you can see all the holes to both mount the seat to the console, as well as mount the seat and console to the base.
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Next I marked out the area for the fuel fill in the console. You can see the outline of the fill. The rectangle around the whole area is where there will be closed box to separate this fuel area from the main part of the console. The x marks where the hoses will come through.
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I test fit the fuel hardware, I think it looks pretty sweet from the outside.
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I also test fit the hoses. The fill hose might just makes the bend. I'm going to try it on final install because I would like to use marine rated fuel hose, but if I can't make the bend I will buy a fuel hose elbow on amazon I found. I also realized the vent hose wouldn't make the bend at the top, so I'll need to make the box for it taller. The problem with that is that the wires from the switch panel to the wiring area need to go across at that level. I'll have to put a pipe through the box where you see me holding it to let the wires through and allow the box to be tall enough for the vent.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:00 am
by Jeff
Really nice work!!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:02 am
by pee wee
I like following along with your thought processes for each step, much more helpful than just progress photos (but we like those, too!). :D

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:57 am
by joe2700
Thanks Jeff and pee wee!

Next up I installed the rear panel with the access hatch into the console. I glued the hatch frame to the panel and the two little side pieces to the console. They just thicken up the visual edge around the leg relief. I secured both with screws and some bonus clamps. While that was still curing I glued the whole thing into the console. Put a 2x4 across the opening and used clamps from it to the panel to pull the panel tight against those side pieces at the top. At the bottom the console base holds it all tight.
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Next I dry fit the middle shelf, steering panel, and little transfer from the steering panel to lower area.
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The helm area of the steering panel needs to be inset so the wheel doesn't stick out too far. I cut out the area, then glued the shelf and steering panel together into one 1 shaped piece. I glued 2 pieces of the inset helm area on being careful that the surfaces were parallel, then I test fit again.
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Next I glued on the sides of that inset area with some... interesting clamping. The seams aren't pretty but it will work!
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Test fit the whole shelf/steering panel one last time. I won't glue this in to the console until the very end, since it's so much easier to get access through the opening.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:28 am
by joe2700
Next up I started fiberglassing all of the inside seams in the console. For the console I'm using 6oz cloth that comes in a small roll just like the biax tape used for the hull. I had to do this in many operations because I could only get to certain seams with the console in a given position, and it was also very time consuming to do so many small pieces in tight areas. Like the hull I precut and saturated the strips on the workbench, then applied them to the console with a ribbed roller over still malleable filets. The fillets are a pretty small radius since the 6oz cloth bends so easily.
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I also started working on the seat and cooler design. As mentioned way back I'm taking the seat design from an older 17' Montauk Boston Whaler. The design allows you to sit facing forward or backward by moving the seat back. You can also sit on the top of the seat back when it's in the forward position using it as a leaning post.
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I got my cooler which will be in the seat and played around with the hight and distance to the console. This hight is for the sitting position which will be used at anchor or slow speed. I will almost always drive standing or leaning against the top of the seat back.
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Once the hight was set I mocked up the rest of the seat with whatever scrap I had lying around. The cooler will make up the back 2/3 of the seat, level with a platform making up the front 1/3. The milk crate is simulating the hight of the seat back which I haven't added yet.
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Then I created the mock up of the seat back.
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Here I add the 2 arms the seat back swings on. This is what makes the whaler design different from normal swing back seats. Because of the two arms the seat back stays upright in both positions instead of being at an angle.
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Here are the 2 positions. You can see that in the forward position, which I expect to use more often, the cooler is unobstructed. In the rear position the seat back rests on the cooler and will have to be pushed forward to open the cooler.
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The seat back is pretty wide(forward to aft). This was to allow room for a few rod holders in the top. Without that requirement I can reduce the seat back, and therefore the entire seat/cooler combo by 4 inches. It was a tiny bit tight walking aft of the seat so I decided I'd rather have the space than extra rod holders. I don't have pictures but I cut 4 inches off the seat back and reduced it another 1-2 inches by minimizing the gap between the cooler and rest of the seat to the minimum that allows the cooler to open. I will put a thin flexible cushion across the entire thing including the cooler, one that still allows it to open. That will probably be post launch.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:54 am
by joe2700
Between other jobs I applied some fairing compound to the tapes along all the frames and a few other rough spots on the inside of the hull.
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I wanted to look ahead to rigging. I had a number of parts already that I wanted to confirm the fit of. I was concerned about getting some of the connectors through the bends in the chase tubes more than length. I also needed to measure for the hydraulic steering hoses.

I pulled through one of the battery cables and the engine control cable. Happy to find neither gave me much trouble, without using lubrication or anything. While the control cable was there I used e-tape to mark where the helm would be. I measured off that after removing the cables and ordered my steering hoses.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:15 am
by Browndog
Way to go! Let the fun begin. Lots more pictures please.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:53 am
by Jeff
Nice work!!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:11 pm
by joe2700
I also started on the accommodations for the nav lights and horn. My boat will live on a slip on a river in the city. This means I need to go through a lock on a regular basis, so a horn will be much nicer than using airhorns to signal passage. There's also a fair amount of traffic, and you might need to get someones attention in a hurry(lots of crew shells facing backwards).

It also means I boat at night a lot, probably half of all the trips I take are at least partially after sunset. Because of this I give my lighting set up a fair amount of thought. I want the nav and all around lights to be somewhere I won't see them to disrupt my night vision.

For the anchor light my solution is just you mount it to the console on a long pole so it's completely above my line of sight. That's a problem for later. For the nav lights I will mount them on the outside of the boat. The problem with this is that with the pointed bow(ie not a pontoon boat) the lights will cross and just appear white from the front. To prevent this I made 2 pockets so the lights face directly forward.

I started by cutting out 3 sides of a rectangle, then kerfing the inside of the 4th side at an angle. Now I could bend in the little panel.
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I put a piece of 2x4 between the panels and with shims and screws kept them both parallel to the centerline while glue in the kerfs cured.
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With the lights temporarily in place I have a beautiful cutoff between the 2 lights. Greens pointing a few degrees high, but not a problem this is just the temp installation. :D
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I continued the finicky work of these little pockets adding the back pieces which locked in the angles. This is going to be one of the messy jobs you make nice with plenty of fairing compound and sanding.
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For the horn I traced the shape of the grill onto some ply as a backing plate, and inside that cut out the space of the actual horn element.
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I screwed the grill through the hull into the backing plate, then traced the shape of the grill on the hull.
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I cut out the shape of the grill from the hull then glued the backing plate on from the back. This will inset the grill into the hull flush.
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Here you can see the horn in the final location from the outside and inside.
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I also played around with the swim ladder setup some more. I won't finalize this until the motor is installed to make sure they don't conflict, but I think this placement will roughly work.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:18 pm
by Dan_Smullen
Whoa! Great solution for the nav lights.

Hats off for taking on a PITA operation that will yield the BEST solution.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:58 am
by Jeff
Nice work Joe!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:48 am
by joe2700
Thanks all!

Back to the nav lights I added a top and bottom panel to each cutout. Glued them on way over sized and cut down with the multitool after the glue cured.
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I drilled the 2 drains for the anchor locker in the aft corners. Right before drilling I thought that they might be exactly on the boarder between the 2 hull panels. Of course it was. I'm using little stainless clamshells over the holes so for those to sit flat I had to add the little piece.
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I next worked on the attachment points for any rigging on the hull in the stern area. The fuel filter, bilge pumps, battery cable connection, and both bilge pumps got a piece of 1/2" ply for where they will attach.For the bilge pumps they are at a staggered hight so one will take normal duties and the other will only come on with significant water.
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I glued them in place and overdrilled and filled the mounting points.
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Back at the front I created a spot for the docking/head lights the same way I had for the nav lights. These are angled in a few degrees so the headlights converge in front of the boat.
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For this spot the frame made up the back of the cutout, so I only needed to add a little filler piece.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:13 pm
by joe2700
Back at the console I glued in the little pieces between the leg relief area and the steering panel.
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Little sanding needed but looks decent.
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I also got some friction hinges from gemlux and tried them on the in console hatch. The friction hinges are supposed to replace gas struts for holding hatches open. The console hatch is my smallest hatch, and the pair of hinges provide too much resistance I think. For the larger hatches you have more leverage and they should feel good. For this small hatch I will try using 1 friction hinge with 1 normal hinge to halve the resistance.
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Got back to glassing the inside of the console same idea as before.
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On the boat I added tops and bottoms to the docking light cutouts, finishing those up other than fairing.
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Another odd job I extended the g10 mounting on the console base to go one hole further aft. Needed another screw to look decent on the outside and figured one more real screw holding the console on was better than a fake one for looks.
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I also picked up my new trailer!
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:15 am
by joe2700
Next I started working on the side decks. This and the bow deck are the last major construction project on the boat! Then just a million little things.

I ran a cleat down the top of all the deck supports as a baton to check how level they were. A few are low, but nothing too bad. The curve looks good to me.
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I joined the cleats together and made sure each joint was at a deck support, then screwed the cleats to notches in the supports. I was also trying to fit the outside cleats in their notches.
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It was great to see the shape of the side decks and how much space I would have inside the boat. I was worried these side decks would feel too wide but I don't think so anymore.
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Towards the back the side deck needs to curve from full width to about half width. I tried to do this curve with the cleat but it was too sharp, the cleat wasn't making the bend.
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Instead I made a piece of plywood in the shape of the curve I wanted and attached it to the cleats straight on each side. I filled in the area with a second piece so that if any hardware ends up here theres an even bottom surface to bolt it through.
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Looking at the whole side deck from stern to the bow deck I really like the shape.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:58 am
by OneWayTraffic
Looks good, a lot of attention to detail. I would consider putting the second bilge pump much higher, as high as you can get it. Just to keep the automatic switch coming on when you slosh water around in there.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:03 am
by Rmarsh
Everything you have done looks great! Really well thought out details. I think you will be very happy with your side decks at the width you've chosen.
Standing against the side deck coaming...without your feet hitting the hull sides.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:35 am
by joe2700
OneWayTraffic wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:58 am Looks good, a lot of attention to detail. I would consider putting the second bilge pump much higher, as high as you can get it. Just to keep the automatic switch coming on when you slosh water around in there.
Thanks OneWayTraffic! Since the design is self bailing there should be very little water in there(just hatch leakage) unless there's a serious problem. I'm hoping even a 1/2" higher the second pump never comes on. If I'm wrong and I do have water back here on a regular basis, I can definitely use a plastic block or something to raise the second pump. Can't raise it too high though, or or it wouldn't be able top pump much out even in an emergency.
Rmarsh wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:03 am Everything you have done looks great! Really well thought out details. I think you will be very happy with your side decks at the width you've chosen.
Standing against the side deck coaming...without your feet hitting the hull sides.
Thanks Rmarsh! I do like it for the safety factor, and was just worried about the looks. Now I think it will be fine though.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:23 am
by joe2700
At this point I decided to get rid of the outer cleats for the side decks, leaving only the inner ones you could see in the previous post. The amount of side deck that sticks above the rub rail is a visual element that will really stick out if it's not consistent. I already have a perfect reference surface in the top of the hull panel which I trimmed to 1/4" below the rub rail with a router a long time ago. It will be much easier to keep the reveal at consistent at 1/8" using this surface than trying to level the cleat.

Without that outer cleat in the way I'll run a fillet and tape the seam from underneath while should be a stronger tie between the hull and deck than a cleat anyway. I'll just have to fill those notches I made in the deck supports.

I had roughly cut out the side deck panels some time earlier, so now I brought them to final shape. I clamped them in place and then made a scribe tool to mark the exact outer curve. The tool is just a piece of wood you run along the rub rail attached to a piece of ply that runs along the deck. A nail sticks out of the ply scoring the exact shape of the outer curve.
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I'm not super accurate with the saw so I used the power planer to take them down to the line. Took off 1/8" pass to start then dialed it down as I got closer to the line.
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Once cut to the correct outer curve you can see the nice even reveal I was talking about.
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Now the outside edge of the both side decks was finished I could screw them into the deck supports.
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Just had to run a router down the decks using the flush cut bit running against the cleat and the side decks were fully shaped. Made a bit of dust!
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I also extended the rub rail around the transom at an angle to match the side decks instead of the higher curve of the plans. I screwed the rail on from the inside while the glue cured.
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When I originally cut the rub rails I messed up and cut them flush with the transom, not thinking about my plan to wrap them around the transom. This would show end grain on the side of the boat which I don't like. While I have another 8' piece of the oak, I also had two cutoffs about an inch short of what I needed for the transom pieces. I decided to use them even though they don't make it to the corner. I will just add a cap of white oak to the corner, saving most of the big piece for other things, and hiding the end grain. Here you can see the messy corner as it is now.
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Once the rub rail was cured I ran the router along it like the rest of the rub rail to cut the transom down to 1/4" below the rub rail. A thin piece of deck will sit here like the rest of the side deck.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:12 pm
by Fuzz
Joe you are building a nice boat! I love how you post lots of pictures all along the way. We like our pictures and you are giving us lots of them :D

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:01 pm
by joe2700
Next I started working on the inwhales. I wasn't sure how tall I wanted them so I cut a short piece 3 different sizes and clamped them on to take a look. From memory it was 6", 8", 10". I wanted them somewhat tall to cover the rod holders, but I liked the shortest of the 3 best. The actual inwhales will be 6 1/2" with the half inch above the side decks.
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I tried it at the bow, middle, and stern. It looks good the whole way except right at the stern where it goes over the rear hatches, there I'll have to make it shorter.
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I cut the full length pieces too wide, so I could cut them down to final width along the shape of the side decks.
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The plywood needed to be kerfed to make the bend at the stern. I needed a cross cut sled to do that easily so I made one on the table saw. Some tape to protect the saw, put a strip in each guide on the table, then glue on the large piece. Just put some heavy stuff on top while the glue dried.
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After that was dried I added a 2x4 to the front and back then used the saw to cut through the bottom. Just using the sanding block as a push block.
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I used the table saw to make a 1/8" wide cut every 1/4" along the whole area that had to bend.
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The first side bent perfectly now.
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The other side did not go so well...
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I think the kerfs had not been cut deep enough in this side because the panel was lifting up while I was cutting them.

I cut off the broken part, did the kerfs again, and it bent fine. Needed to add in a third panel on that side to make up the difference.

Once I knew they would both bend I covered the side deck with packing tape, filled the kerfs with gel magic, and screwed it back in locking in the curve.

Once cured I used long strips of plywood to hold the panels together in line.
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I also cut the tops to match the deck right before taking them off the boat. The bulk with multitool and then flush with a router.
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I glassed the small replacement peice to match the rest.
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With the side decks off I also glued in the second half of the deck support at the curves filling in the rest of the space to the rail. I needed this area to be even underneath since a rod holder would go here, which is why I added the second piece. The odd clamping is to make sure this piece is in the same plane as the first half so it doesn't mess up the side deck.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:30 pm
by joe2700
Back in the city at the shared shop(so we are still pre COVID-19) I continued on the console. I filleted/glassed a few more inside corners with cloth tape.
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Used some extra fillet material to fill in some corners I won't glass.
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Let a bit go off in the cup not getting it down fast enough, it was smoking away. I was turning the cup constantly while it did this to try and keep it cool enough to not melt through the cup. Since it solidified while I was doing this I got kind of a cool sculpture out of my mistake when I pulled I out of the cup.
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Also worked on the inside shelf/hatch support. Made this out of a few pieces to save a big piece of 1/2" ply, with a doubler where the latch catch will go. This self will be right over the batteries, and will open to access them.
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Here you can see the 2 shelf halves on top of the support.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:01 pm
by Jeff
Nice work!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:03 pm
by Fuzz
Like Jeff said very nice work.
Loving the picture loaded updates.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:04 pm
by Dan_Smullen
The reveal at the deck/rub rail turned out very nice, as is the rest of it!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:38 pm
by joe2700
Thanks all!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:38 pm
by joe2700
I worked on the bow deck some. I need to fit the cleat and fairleads while leaving enough space for an anchor locker hatch large enough to actually fit an anchor. I played with the layout and it left about a 13" opening once you take into account the size of the hatch frame, which should be enough.
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I also started trying to curve the bow deck to match the deck camber to get a sense for how that would look. It's not fully in position but I like the look of it.
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Getting back to the side decks, the side decks and inwhales are temporarily tied into single pieces. I took them off the boat, move the boat out of the way and laid them out on the floor face down.
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I cut off all the bits of screws that were sticking through from the pieces tying them together, put some glue between them, and glassed the back sides. Once dry I flipped them and glassed the faces. Each side deck and inwhale is now a single piece. The full sheet in the background is to build the seat.
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While I had some space I dusted off the in progress rear hatches and glued the frames to the surrounding panels to later be glued in to the boat in one piece.
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I trimmed the edges of the side decks/inwhales and refit them to the boat. The inwhales still haven't been trimmed on the bottom edge, so they will be thinner when done.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:43 pm
by Jeff
Nice work!!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:17 pm
by joe2700
In my gemlux order I got a new drain plug that is captive and can be tightened from the inside. Should help if I ever pull the put the boat in with an open drain plug move. It's a different size from the previous one and also angled up requiring some changes. After expanding the hole I covered the plug in tape, put it in place, then filled in around it with gel magic to make sealed and perfectly fitting hole.
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New plug looks good(other than the fact that I drilled the screw holes through by mistake, I'll fill that back in later).
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I also wanted to permanently mark the centerline on the transom for engine mounting. I have kept track of the centerline throughout the build frequently marking it on new parts with the laser. I'm not as confident the sides of the transom would be identical if you needed to measure off them to find the centerline later. I used the laser to mark the centerline on the transom top them filed a grove in the g10 so I have a permanent mark I can find after paint.
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I remeasured the transom hight since one of the reasons I originally added the g10 was my transom being a bit short. Looks about 19 3/4" measured vertically so should be good.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:58 pm
by joe2700
The inside hull is pretty fair right now, other than around the frame bases, so I don't want to be dropping epoxy on it. I used the taped masking film to protect the entire inside up the the frame supports. I find it to be surprisingly economical considering what just painters tape and other plastic drop cloths can cost.
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I covered all the mating surfaces with gel magic then laid the side decks down. Screws hold it in place on a few of the frames but nothing too tight because I want the side decks to fair themselves out over any uneven supports. It was really important the outside edge was against the inside of the hull to make the reveal even, so in a few places where I could feel it wasn't firm I added some clamps to push just the outside edge down.
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The side decks glued on! Feels like a milestone.
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At individual deck supports there was some flex previously when I put all my weight on them. Not the actual support but it twisted the hull panel a little with its leverage. I tried walking up and down the side decks and felt almost no movement. Since the inwhales should stiffen them up significantly, I think they will be real solid and help keep the entire hull solid.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:14 am
by joe2700
Also needed to address the rub rail corners.
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Made up 2 triangles for the back...
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and a larger piece for the front out of 2 pieces.
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To get a good fit on the triangles I covered them in pencil and rubbed them in position. Wherever I saw transfer I chiseled away until it was transferring evenly. Not a perfect fit but the seams are small enough.
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Glued them on.
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Also started working on the jig to laminate the bow deck supports. I took the curve off the panel up there and used a baton to make it on 2 pieces of scrap a little exaggerated. Cut out the curves and attached them 2 each other with spacers in between.
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Screwed a piece of plywood on top of now I have a jib to make curved bow deck supports.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:16 pm
by Dan_Smullen
A milestone indeed! It all looks great.

The triangles in the corners look good. I was going to suggest a piece of quarter round large enough to make the transition, but the angles add a nice touch.

Remarkable the strength at the frame less supports. Not much flex while your standing on it in the pic?

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:03 pm
by joe2700
Dan_Smullen wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:16 pm A milestone indeed! It all looks great.

The triangles in the corners look good. I was going to suggest a piece of quarter round large enough to make the transition, but the angles add a nice touch.

Remarkable the strength at the frame less supports. Not much flex while your standing on it in the pic?
All my oak stock was already cut to the size of the rub rails, so I didn't have any larger pieces to shape. In later pics you'll see I did round them after gluing though, I think in the end it looks like you are picturing.

No not much flex at all. I was walking gently though, I won't be jumping on them until they are glassed from underneath and the inwhale is on.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:04 pm
by joe2700
Next up I laminated the anchor hatch frame pieces out of 2 3/4" layers of douglass fir.
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It took a ton of pressure to get the fir to bend this much. I should have used more thinner layers but I didn't have enough fir. I noticed putting enough clamping pressure was pulling up the edges of my mold, so the frame pieces had a twist. I added screws but many of the holes stripped so I had a bunch of holes and some splitting. The whole thing was a mess. Got it clamped up as best I could and let it finish curing.
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The result was frames with the perfect curve, but many defects to address.
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I moved ahead with fitting them, and they gave the bow deck a nice shape.
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I have enough room to get the anchor in and out without much hassle, you just have to angle it a little.
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So here are the pieces of the anchor hatch frame in position to fasten...
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and the lamination failed right on the glue joint as I drove a screw in.
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These seemed to fail partially because of areas that didn't have good contact during glue up, I suspect from the huge amount of force required to bend them, and from some cupping on the surface. Additionally where there was good contact the grain just ripped out. Fir isn't that strong and there was probably too much stress built up in the part.

I was fighting these at every step, didn't feel good about them, but kept pushing forward. Just wasted my time. I'll remake them out of 4 pieces of 3/8" ply. It will bend easily, bond well, and be more stable.

I'll consider these a mockup because the shape was working well.

On a better note I also shaped the rub rail corners at the back...
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and the front. Happy with how these came out.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:31 pm
by Fuzz
That is some mighty fine work on those corners Joe.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:58 pm
by Jeff
Nice work Joe!!!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:31 am
by joe2700
Thanks all!

Take 2 on laminating the anchor hatch frame, this time out of 4 layers of 3/8" ply, on the same mold. I also laminated 2 straight pieces for the sides of the frame so it would all be the same material.
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I fit these new frames in. Because they bent so much easier they had no spring back, so they are actually a bit too curved. Close enough I can bend as I install though, and otherwise these are in great shape. In hindsight I would use laminated plywood instead of fir for all hatch frames.
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I started assembling in place again and tested the anchor fit one more time with the horn in place.
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With the deck on, the whole aft half is correct but I still need to force the very bow portion into the correct shape. Additionally, this is where the bow cleat will be, so it needs to be very strong. I will fill this entire area under the bow deck with a curved panel.
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I laminated a 3/4" panel from 3 sheets of 1/4" ply on the same curved mold. I wanted the panel square while on the mold to keep the right shape, but only bothered gluing the area that wouldn't be disguarded.
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After it was cured I traced the shape of the bow deck and cut it out offset smaller to fit inside the hull.
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I will have to do some tweaking but I'm happy with how this structure is coming together now.
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I also played around with different widths for where the side decks would wrap around the transom.

Wide:
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Medium:
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Narrow:
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I'm going to go with the medium at 1.5". A board will go across the transom the same width as the inwhale to give the effect it wraps around.
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Also started cosmetic fillets on all the seams in the light pockets. This is the type of work that will take forever. Multiple rounds of small fillets and sanding.
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I worked on filleting and glassing under the side decks as well. The plan is to fillet all seams under there, and put one strip of glass in each section. Started by filling the corners including the large gaps where I was originally going to have a cleat.
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After that was dry enough to not mess it up I filled in the rest of the edge and added a piece of glass between each deck support. All the corners are done and I've done about half of the edges and tape.
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Last I made a tool for later. I need to make a nice rounded transition from the side deck to rub rail. I'm hoping this contraption does the trick, we'll see.
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And now for the first time in months, the build log is real time again, as this was progress from today.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:00 pm
by Beto Ramos
Congratulations, beautiful work! I bought the FS17 plans and hope to start soon. Your whim is admirable!I'm from Brazil, I don't speak English, I use automatic Google translation. Sorry. :D

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:24 pm
by joe2700
Beto Ramos wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:00 pm Congratulations, beautiful work! I bought the FS17 plans and hope to start soon. Your whim is admirable!I'm from Brazil, I don't speak English, I use automatic Google translation. Sorry. :D
Thanks Beto, it's been a long but fun project. Good luck with your build!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:36 pm
by joe2700
Not much to show but I got the rest of the tape under the side decks done. Everywhere you see a piece laid out here it's now glassed underneath.
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I can now layout my cleats and rod holders so I know where to put the g10 backing plates underneath.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:48 pm
by Fuzz
You can do a lot of work that does not make a big showing but it all adds up in the end. I say again this is going to be one fine boat.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:47 pm
by joe2700
I started laying out the hardware on my sidedecks, so I can put the backing plates on before the inwhales are in the way. Played with a ton of layouts but this is what I think I'm going with.

Here's the view from the helm:
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Here's the view from outside:
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All the rod holders are also cup holders, and the angle they are sticking up shows which way the rod will go when they are right side up. The front holder is a good cupholder for the front seat and rod holder for people fishing in the front of the boat.

The middle holder is a cupholder for the console seat and rod holder you can just reach from the helm. The cleat is for a fender at the widest part of the boat and a cleat you can reach from the helm could be handy for some situations.

The rear holder is a good rod holder for fishing from the back or trolling, and cupholder if you're sitting in the back. The cleat is for the rear fender.

I'm going to make sure I still like this layout tomorrow, before I start drilling.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:53 pm
by joe2700
I've been waylaid by being put on an urgent COVID related project at work(healthcare software). I'm lucky to have the job and it's nice to work on something that might help some people, but have not had a minute for the boat until today, working 12-16 hour days. Just did some quick work as a break for my sanity.

Cut the gutters in the anchor hatch parts, and clearly messed something up...
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I had used the wrong mark to align one of the parts. Oh well, I cut a new correctly aligned gutter and will fill the mistake later.
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Glued it up trying to align the surface the hatch will rest on.
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Only other thing was rounding the edges on a hatch frame for in the console, to install later.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:36 am
by Jeff
Nice work, Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:55 pm
by Rtorres2411
You do some really nice work. I enjoy all the pictures you post.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:33 pm
by joe2700
Thanks!

Trying to get at least a tiny piece each day while this work thing is ongoing. I glued the front piece onto the anchor hatch frame. Couldn't do it until I took out the screws from the last glue up as it covers them, which I almost didn't notice yesterday. It's in the kitchen overnight so I don't need to heat up the garage for the one piece.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun May 17, 2020 1:11 am
by joe2700
I want to put backing plates for all the deck hardware in before the inwhales get in the way, so I needed to place the 2 cleats and 3 rod holders down each side plus the bow cleat. Started with the small cleats amidships and at the stern.
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For the rod holders I didn't have the correct drill size so I punched a divot in the center and marked the cutout with a caliper. I cut out the majority with the closest drill I had then free handed to the line with the router. Also used the router to cut the small notch that keeps the holder from spinning.
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I'm happy with how they look, and the cupholder/rod holders pass the all important beer test.
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Next I cut out g10 backing plates for all the cleats and holders. Stuff is a pain to cut. Like metal but more abrasive on your tools.
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I laid the plates out at each station, using some extra bolts to align and clamp the ones for the cleats. For the rod holders I protected them with tape and used the holders themselves to clamp the plates on.
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On the fun side I tested an led strip I'm considering for under side deck lighting.
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I also fit and aligned my headlights. They are pretty bright. There is no other light in this second picture. The docking lights in the same unit are switched separately with a wider less bright light.
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For the nav lights and headlights I had a problem. You screw the units on the the boat the put the stainless cover on. A small screw at the back holds the cover on, and it would not be possible to get to that screw the way I have them inset. Once they were all aligned I installed them with thru bolts, and glued the bolts into the lights. Once the glue dried I removed them and added the cover with small screw. Now I can install them and tighten them from the inside of the boat on the nut, like they had permentant studs. Exterior lights are good to go, removed them until after paint.
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I also revisited another trouble point, my stern plug. I kept either stripping the screws or having them poke through to the inside of the boat, and the stern plug is not a part of the boat you want to be a weak link. I have no idea why I didn't think of this earlier, but I made a g10 plate cut perfectly to the plug and glued it on the outside. This increased the thickness in the problem area and I'm now finally happy with the stern plug. Also removed until after paint.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun May 17, 2020 1:46 am
by joe2700
After working on the lights I realized I had no way to get wire from my forward chase tube up into the anchor locker where the lights and horn are. I cut a hole for a pipe from the anchor locker down into the forward dry storage area. In the anchor locker the pipe will come up about 6 inches so water in the anchor locker can't go through this pipe into the storage below. I also made 2 small holes from the anchor locker to under the side decks, for wires to any lighting I do install under there.
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Next up I am trying to paint the rest of the areas that will get bilge paint, before the inwhales go on, as I will bilge paint under the side decks. Mostly this is prepping the lockers, under side decks, and console base. There was one thing I hadn't built yet though, the main seat. I had previously mocked it up and then created a 3d design from the mockup.
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So I had plans, there one just one change I hadn't updated the plans with, making the whole thing 3 inches shorter bow to stern, I made that change as I built. I had a sheet of 1/2" ply already glassed both sides, so I just marked it and cut it up according to the plans. First the side panels, both sides cut together like I always prefer with mirrored parts.
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Next the bottom and vertical panels to the side pieces. Also added the seat front.
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Test fit with the cooler and fits great. I also made the seat back/leaning post portion, just forgot to take pictures.
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With the leftover 1/2" ply I cut out and dry fit my swim ladder platform, just won't finalize this until the motor is installed so I can ensure clearance.
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With the seat built(still just with screws) and in the boat I played with it's exact location. I need it as close to the console as comfortable to have room to walk aft of the seat. I realized getting this right without the controls would be hard, so I installed the controls in the lower panel. Helm, throttle, ignition, and switch panel. These had all been mocked up before, so I just transferred the measurements and cut.

Overall I was very happy with the ergonomics, but the throttle stuck out more than anything else, making it the limiting factor for how close the seat could be. Additionally, it was so vertical the it was hard to control with your thumb while your hand rested on the base. I prefer to drive that way over holding the top of the handle, more fine control especially when the boats moving a lot. I decided to inset the top of the throttle like the helm, pushing it further in and correcting the angle.

It now feels perfect to me, and it sticks out exactly as far as the wheel. I was able to get the seat 1.5 inches further forward which helps walking behind it, and just much better ergonomics for me, so worth the change. I'll have to clean up the console later but I was able to mark the permenant location of the seat so I can install the base to the hull.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun May 17, 2020 7:13 am
by cape man
Tell me more about the head lights. Those look sweet!

Make sure you have room inside the console for the control cables for the throttle. I had to make a spacer to pull it out an inch when I went to a final install. When anchored I put it forward to clear the space between the leaning post and console... turn the engine off first :help:

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun May 17, 2020 10:54 am
by joe2700
cape man wrote: Sun May 17, 2020 7:13 am Tell me more about the head lights. Those look sweet!

Make sure you have room inside the console for the control cables for the throttle. I had to make a spacer to pull it out an inch when I went to a final install. When anchored I put it forward to clear the space between the leaning post and console... turn the engine off first :help:


These are the lights: https://sea-dog.com/groups/3864-led-cree-docking-lights

They were important to me as my slip is on a river in a city. Lot's of kayaks and crew shells that aren't always as lit up as they should be. The focused forward lights will help with that while I can turn on just the side docking lights for navigating the marina at night without blinding anyone. They also make a nav light in the exact same design so I don't have 2 different looking light fixtures right next to each other: https://sea-dog.com/groups/3815-led-side-mount-lights

I'll keep that in mind about the throttle, the control cables is one of the few things I don't have yet, but should be picking up soon when the engine is mounted on the transom. I'll go back later for everything to be hooked up and the first start.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 12:11 am
by joe2700
Today I moved the boat from the cradle to the trailer. Access will be a little harder now but I need to be ready to bring it in for motor mounting. I started by jacking up the back of the boat and putting it on some blocks. Then around frame B I jacked it up on each side and pulled the cradle out 1 foot until the next support hit the jacks. Reposition the jacks and repeat a number of times until about 2/3ds out.
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Eventually I was able to jack it up behind the cradle and pull the cradle completely out.
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It looked a little precarious so I got the trailer in as fast as I could and spent a few hours adjusting the bunks and rollers. While a little longer than needed, I think the trailer is a great fit.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 4:27 am
by OrangeQuest
Looking good on the trailer!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 12:49 pm
by Fuzz
Looking good. You are putting lots of custom features on this girl. She is going to be nice.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri May 29, 2020 1:50 am
by joe2700
Mocked up the location of the swing arms for the seat. They are overly long since I can't get the length before cushions are in place, but wanted to get the pivot locations so I could install backing plates.
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Also glued up the inset for the throttle.
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Glued in the mounting brackets for the console and seat.
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I fit in the hatch for the motorwell, hoping its good and waterproof. The motorwell bottom is still not installed until I know where the motor bolts fall. I made some pieces to improve the appearance of the top edge of frame E. Don't want any exposed thin plywood.
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Sanded and cleaned a huge pile of parts then glued up the seat, swim platform, and backing plate for the motorwell hatch.
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Fit the swim ladder to the platform, still waiting on motor to check final location on the transom.
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And made marks in the fuel tank area. I need a pad to install the hold down brackets on the front that will restrict fore/aft and up/down movement. Will install plywood at the corners to restrict side to side movement since no room for brackets. Having this just at the corners should allow plenty of room for expansion.
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With a friend we did the final shaping of the inwhales. 6.5 inches wide with 1/2" above the deck. Will get glued in later.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri May 29, 2020 7:22 am
by Jeff
Really nice work Joe!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri May 29, 2020 5:19 pm
by Dan_Smullen
Nicely done! Looks like Fusion 360 is your friend too. A great tool for doing this kind of work!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri May 29, 2020 5:57 pm
by joe2700
Dan_Smullen wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 5:19 pm Nicely done! Looks like Fusion 360 is your friend too. A great tool for doing this kind of work!
Yea nice that they offer it for free to hobbyists as well. Was a bit of a learning curve coming from solidworks but mostly happy with it. Great place to get started I think.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat May 30, 2020 3:00 pm
by Dan_Smullen
joe2700 wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 5:57 pm
Dan_Smullen wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 5:19 pm Nicely done! Looks like Fusion 360 is your friend too. A great tool for doing this kind of work!
Yea nice that they offer it for free to hobbyists as well. Was a bit of a learning curve coming from solidworks but mostly happy with it. Great place to get started I think.
It's definitely a great value. Lots of power for a relatively cheap price. I stepped down to Fusion from SW as well, and there was some frustration with that. SW is a much more efficient platform, but we're a young company and keep the budget in check.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:37 am
by joe2700
I made up the pads for the fuel tank area that will secure the corners, and test fit them. Should be snug with the rubber strips but leaves plenty of room in the middle of the spans for expansion.
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Also laminated the anchor hatch from 3 layers of 1/4" ply to match the curve of the bow deck.
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Still need to trim to have exactly a 1/4" gap all around it, but kept it's shape well.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:40 am
by Fuzz
Really nice work :D
I guess I missed it but will the fuel tank be plastic or metal?

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:54 am
by Jeff
Agree with Fuzz, really nice work!!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:01 am
by joe2700
Fuzz wrote: Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:40 am Really nice work :D
I guess I missed it but will the fuel tank be plastic or metal?
Fuel tank is plastic. It will be held down with the manufacturers brackets at the front but no room on the sides. Instead these blocks will hold only a few inches at the bottom of the corners snug, leaving an 1/2" or more of space for expansion up the rest of the corners and across all the sides.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:52 am
by joe2700
As usual got way behind on posting updates.

I wasn't happy with the finish in the aft bilge/storage area because I hadn't faired it enough before painting. It didn't look great which bugged me but wasn't a huge deal in the storage area. The real problem was all the pinholes in the weave that would make the area hard to keep clean and dry. I sanded it down and faired it to be repainted.
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I tweaked the arrangement of hardware in the bilge. I got rid of the curved chase tubes and partially filled in the holes through the stringer in favor of a single cutout.
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I partially rewired my switch panel. Swapped some of the button faces as plans have changed for what will be switched v. fused. Needed to make corresponding moves of the built in circuit breakers so each circuit had the correct value. Also added 2 more 12 AWG supply wires to the panel in addition to the one it came with, as it wasn't quite as over built as the rest of my electrical system and I wanted to support everything being on at once without excessive voltage drop even though that's very unlikely. That's the value the thermal breaker before the panel will be sized for so didn't want the wire to the panel to be the weak link.
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I found I was spending too much time figuring out what to work on next instead of working, so took a cue from my work life and set up a kanban board in the garage.
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A bunch of painting was up next. I put the inwhales back on and traced all the contact points on to the back of them to tape off.
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Did a whole lot of sanding everywhere I won't bore everyone with pictures of.

I cut and epoxy coated mounting pads for the fuel tank and hardware in the bilge then glued them in.
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Gave the whole boat a good wash then started taping off inside and out.
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Now to start to see a transformation... Started a few days of applying 2 coats of primer to almost all unpainted surfaces including the back of the inwhale. Love watching the progression of each area start to look finished.
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Making some progress on that kanban board.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:10 am
by Jeff
Nice organization!!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:15 am
by VT_Jeff
Love the scrum board! Are you the only one picking tasks off?

Boat is looking great and you've come up with some really cool mods. Your willingness to go back and redo stuff you're not totally happy with is inspiring, kudos, keep it up!

Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:10 pm
by joe2700
Thanks Jeffs!

Mostly just me working on it, did get some help with painting recently and other big tasks earlier in the build.

I finished up the painting by getting the first coat of bilge paint in the storage areas, under the side decks, and on the back of the inwhales.
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After all the painting it was nice to take a few boats out to a nearby island and camp with some friends.
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Alright back to the boat. I still don't know where my waterline will be, I'll test that in the water before final paint. To do that I will need a drain plug installed, so I bottom painted where the drain plug will go to be ready to install it.
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After that took the exciting step of having a motor put on! Dropped the boat off for the weekend, I may have driven past once or twice to make sure she was safe.
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Worked on the console in the mean time, building in the partition that will keep the fuel fill and vent separated from the rest of the space with a removable cover. The pipe is to pass through the wires to the switch panel since they are fixed length.
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I cut a slot in the back of the console shelf and added a wall to it. the wiring will run in this slot and the wall will stop things rolling off the shelf, I hope.
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Glued in inwhales in permanently.
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Then came back with my brand new 60hp suzuki. Looks great on there to me.
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The anti cavitation plate is about 1/2" below the bottom with the motor mounted in the lowest hole so I think a good starting point, and I have room to adjust higher if I want to.
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Had to build a motor stand out of my old strongback to take the motor back off. It works but is a little unstable while you are moving it, have to be real careful. It's very stable when down.
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In addition to the g10 backing plate on the inside of the transom for the motor I wanted to put g10 rod around the mounting bolts. I needed to enlarge the holes while staying on center which is hard with a hole saw. I ended up putting a smaller rod around the pilot bit on the hole saw. A little strange but worked well.
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While the motor was on I had checked clearance for the swim platform, that it would allow the motor to fully turn and tilt. So I now screwed the swim platform to the transom and tested it. Worked well, I'll glue it on after it's primed. I was planning on adding a handle on the transom for it but I think just grabbing the top of the transom will be fine.
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On an evening boat ride we found a boat in the color I'm going for. For a while I thought I wanted claret red, but I saw it at a boat show and it's too purple. I think I actually want vivid red? It sounds scary like it's fire engine or something but it seems to be the right color. Anyway, this boat is the color I want to paint my hull whatever color this boat is. Any guesses on if vivid red is the right awlgrip color? Always hard to tell in pictures.
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I glued in some plywood to give the appearance that the inwhale wraps onto the transom.
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Cut the ancor hatch hole out of the bow deck and glued the deck to the frame. I had constructed a curved hatch for this opening previously.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:00 pm
by Dan_Smullen
Everything looks great, especially the ‘Zuki!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:30 am
by joe2700
Thanks Dan!

I did a test for how I plan to secure the console and seat to the boat where I won't be able to get to both sides of the bolt. Made something like 60 little g10 bushings.
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I put some mold release wax on the bolts and inserted them through the holes. I hand tightened some standard nuts on to them, then glued the g10 ring around the nut, filling the inside of the ring with adhesive. To my relief when the glue dried the bolts came out no problem. The nuts are held captive so I will be able to tighten the bolts from one side.
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Just like 45 more of these to do on the console and seat...

Next up I spent some time on wiring, mainly because it's fun. I have some fuses directly on the batteries now so needed to check clearance and raise the console shelf by about an inch. These blue seas MRBF fuses are clever. Lets you have basically 0 unfused wire in the boat even to the starter with 200 amp fuses on those wires, and 40 amp fuses to the battery charger.
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I installed my battery switch and "shore power", just a waterproof ac plug for the battery charger you'll see in later pics.
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Then started making all the wires for primary connections from the batteries to the switch, charger, and aft bilge where the motor will connect. All 4 AWG other than the battery charger/ ACR which is 8 AWG. Ancor wire and terminals crimped on and sealed with adhesive lined heat shrink. My heat shrink labels don't fit on 4 AWG so they got normal labels wrapped around them, all other wires got heat shrink labels.
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Ended the day with 12+ volts at the correct locations and the batteries charging overnight through the "shore power" and battery charger/acr combo.
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I should have returned to more pressing items at this point but was having too much fun and spent another day on wiring. Laid out the rest of the in console DC distribution.
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Also needed to shorten the NMEA 2000 power cable so took the one I had apart and learned how it was wired up and remade it a few feet shorter. Basically just wire the positive to DC positive and the negative and ground to DC negative.
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Checked that I'll still have good access to everything with the hatch frame in place.
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I made a whole lot of cables over these 2 days. Its very relaxing work to me. I don't get tired of it like some of the other work. Time to more on for now though, it all came back out.
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Much less fun I installed the rest of the nuts for mounting the console and seat.
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Put a second coat of bilge paint in the anchor locker and bilge, and the only coat under the seat and console.
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The done column is getting filled up but just like at work the todo column fills up as fast as things get done, never gets shorter.
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And finally, the post are caught back up to real time. Here's a gorgeous sky I spotted out the back of the workshop last night. Hope to be seeing these from the water sometime this year.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:14 am
by Browndog
Great Job!. Your wiring and electrical work have set a new Gold Standard for the forum. Mine look like spaghetti compared to yours and I thought I was being neat!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 7:27 am
by cape man
I will never post a picture of my wiring, especially now! Awesome job.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:31 am
by joe2700
Thanks all

I used some extra g10 tube to make a small flag pole for yacht club burgees and a tube for it to drop into on the bow. Will just be a friction fit with a bolt through the hole stopping it from going too far into the tube. I'm a member of two clubs and people like to fly the burgee for special occasions. I'll use the aft rod holder for the ensign.
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I also played with where to mount the fire extinguishers. I like the horizontal position which is still visible but not as in the way. I don't trust the cheap plastic mount in that position though. Purchased a few starboard mounting brackets so we'll see when they come in. Plan is the horizontal position mirrored on each side.
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Then I drilled a nice hole in the bottom of my bilge. Installed a composite trudesign thruhull. One of the approved installation methods is to use thickened epoxy to make the thru hull an integral part of the hull so I took that approach. This one is recessed so with just a bit of sanding should be very smooth on the bottom of the boat. I also dry fit the ball valve, it will be installed with sealant later.
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I fit the 2 thru hulls for the bilge pumps as well, then took them out to epoxy coat the holes.
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I have all the hardware dry fit in the bilge, will add sealant to all the screws and make the installation permanent soon.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:07 am
by narfi
Awlgrip vivid red is the color we painted my sons canoe.
You can see pictures of the painting of it in the build thread linked in my signature as well as pictures on the water also linked in my signature in the lqunched thread.

And here is what it looks like 3 years later with some minor scratches and dings and mounted on a standard sheer fs17
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:39 am
by joe2700
narfi wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:07 am Awlgrip vivid red is the color we painted my sons canoe.
You can see pictures of the painting of it in the build thread linked in my signature as well as pictures on the water also linked in my signature in the lqunched thread.

And here is what it looks like 3 years later with some minor scratches and dings and mounted on a standard sheer fs17
Great info thanks Narfi

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:59 am
by VT_Jeff
Insane workmanship, Joe, Damn! The bar just keeps getting higher around here. I need to find some imperfectionsists to hang out with. :lol:

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:17 pm
by joe2700
VT_Jeff wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:59 am Insane workmanship, Joe, Damn! The bar just keeps getting higher around here. I need to find some imperfectionsists to hang out with. :lol:
Well the other side of that coin is my build is approaching 4 years haha.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:58 pm
by narfi
With the Awlgrip, both the red and the blue I sprayed, You want to make sure you prime very well first, then spray more coats of color than you think you would need to. The pigment is somewhat translucent and looks amazing once done, but doesn't cover quickly. Do the several coats though and you have a very deep beautiful surface that will do your 4+ years proud :)

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:43 pm
by joe2700
narfi wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:58 pm With the Awlgrip, both the red and the blue I sprayed, You want to make sure you prime very well first, then spray more coats of color than you think you would need to. The pigment is somewhat translucent and looks amazing once done, but doesn't cover quickly. Do the several coats though and you have a very deep beautiful surface that will do your 4+ years proud :)
Thanks Narfi, I'm planning on letting the pros handle the final paint. With no experience or setup to spray I'd spend more on materials than just paying someone to do it, and almost certainly not get as good of a result. Every other part of the process you can fix all mistakes with enough sanding until it's perfect. Final paint has to be perfect the first time. I'll be handing the boat over primed but I imagine they will add their own sprayed primer on top.

Worst case I have a friend who works on super high end racing yachts who can spray it, but I'd have to do all the final prep and help. I've been there when he sprayed a friends boat and got a great result. I'd honestly rather hand it off at 95% and let it be a shops problem to fix any final defects clean and paint, just for the sake of time.

I need to reach out to places soon to get someone lined up...

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:32 am
by joe2700
I started drilling my motorwell drains, and after drilling the holes I re-outlined the swim platform and realized the drain interfered with it and needed to be shifted towards the center.
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I also noticed a larger problem with the transom. When I drilled the pilot holes from inside it pushed off a chip of fairing compound and paint on the outside. As I kept working on the holes pieces kept chipping off far too easily. I got a chisel under the stuff that was chipping off and was able to take it off in sheets. Not good! I thought it was going to be the entire transom but as I kept working with the chisel I I got to a place where I could no longer separate the layers in all directions. Still a large area of the transom though.
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Was pretty concerned about the whole hull at this point. When looking closely it's clearly a layer that was not sanded which had another layer added on top. Both shiny surfaces.
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I thought maybe I had added a layer wrongly thinking I was in a no sand recoat window, but the more I think about it the more I don't think I would have done that with fairing compound. No reason to add more without sanding. More likely it's an area I just missed sanding. The center of the transom was lower than the edges because of the multiple layers of glass, so maybe it got missed just because it was below the rest?

Anyway, there's been nowhere else on the inside or outside of the hull that the fairing compound has come off easily when drilling, and at all edges of the area I chipped off it's impossible to get a chisel between the layers. I'm cautiously optimistic this is the only area with the problem. If it's not, then the problem will be purely cosmetic, as this is entirely outside any structural layers. I'll sand and refair this area and hope there's no where else hidden.

Here you can see the motorwell drains from the inside after I moved them towards the center to clear the swim platform, I'll fill the extra hole with the plug from one of the other holes.
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I also fit the duckbill scuppers in the transom and cut some hose to connect them. They needed to be either completely above or below the bottom of the clamping board. Above would have left them above waterline but almost completely horizontal where I didn't think they would drain well. I placed them below which means 2 extra holes below the waterline, but a pretty steep angle on the hose which I think will allow them to drain well and they take up less of the storage space. I also think the duckbills will work well just submerged to keep water from coming up the drains. We'll see how it works out.
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Also installed the hose port for the washdown hose.
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In that pic you could see me centering the speaker template over the drain, so I cut the 4 speaker holes with a beast of a holesaw.
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And last I made a template for the motor control conduit and steering hoses, and fit those. Checked the length of the steering hoses at the same time and looks good.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:44 am
by Bogieman
Looking good !

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:43 pm
by Dan_Smullen
joe2700 wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:32 am
I thought maybe I had added a layer wrongly thinking I was in a no sand recoat window, but the more I think about it the more I don't think I would have done that with fairing compound. No reason to add more without sanding. More likely it's an area I just missed sanding. The center of the transom was lower than the edges because of the multiple layers of glass, so maybe it got missed just because it was below the rest?

Anyway, there's been nowhere else on the inside or outside of the hull that the fairing compound has come off easily when drilling, and at all edges of the area I chipped off it's impossible to get a chisel between the layers. I'm cautiously optimistic this is the only area with the problem. If it's not, then the problem will be purely cosmetic, as this is entirely outside any structural layers. I'll sand and refair this area and hope there's no where else hidden.

In the words of Captain Ron, "If anything is going to happen it's going to happen out there."

I know the feeling exactly. The wondering of whether or not your project will fall apart and end in catastrophe, but I think your right.

Absolute worst case in this scenario is all the finish falls off, but you'll be able to fix that.

Good luck, She's looking great as always. Nice layout with the speakers and other bells and whistles!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:45 pm
by joe2700
Dan_Smullen wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:43 pm
Absolute worst case in this scenario is all the finish falls off, but you'll be able to fix that.

Good luck, She's looking great as always. Nice layout with the speakers and other bells and whistles!
Thanks Dan, as long as the front doesn't fall off!

Amazing video for anyone that doesn't get the reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM.

Last night I was able to bottom paint over my washdown thru-hull, it blended in to the hull pretty well.
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I also glued on 2 mounting pads for fire extinguisher brackets.
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The brackets are Starboard holders from boat outfitters. Little pricy but I'm so sick of those cheap plastic ones that come with marine extinguishers breaking. Following the advice I saw on another forum I was able to cut about 1/2" off the depth of the brackets and screw them back together. This allows them to be completely under the side deck even mounted on the mounting pad. Should hold nice and solid.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:01 am
by Browndog
When you are getting ready to install speakers and fire extinguishers you are in the home stretch.

Looking good, can’t wait to see her all rigged up.

Build on!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:26 am
by joe2700
Browndog wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:01 am When you are getting ready to install speakers and fire extinguishers you are in the home stretch.

Looking good, can’t wait to see her all rigged up.

Build on!
Once hardware is going on without being taken off again I'll be almost done! But the number of times I have to move things from when I first place them I knew I needed to place everything before final paint or I would make a mess of the final product. Can still sand away any mistake at this point. Still really want to get in the water this year, but we'll see.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:06 am
by joe2700
I decided to angle my rear decks for drainage after cutting the motorwell sides, so I've had a gap to deal with there for a long time. Glued in some little filler pieces.
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Also needed to glass the top of the bow deck, did it before installing to make less of a mess on the boat.
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Used the extra epoxy to coat all the holes I've recently made in the boat.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:05 pm
by joe2700
Back to the wiring briefly, I don't have heat shrink big enough for the 4 AWG wires so I had printed normal labels and wrapped them around and back to itself as a tag. Didn't stick well and was getting damaged. I got some clear heat shrink big enough, stuck a normal label along the wire, and heat shrank over it. This worked well, good option for wires too big or if you don't have heat shrink labels at all.
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Now I started sealing in a whole bunch of things. A tube to get wires up to the anchor locker without letting water down into the storage below.
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Did the 2 battery holders, the rubber pads for the fuel tank, and sealed the tops of the chase tubes.
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Installed the tru design valve on the thru hull with load bearing collar.
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Bilge pumps.
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Sealed the other ends of the chase tubes and installed the battery cable posts.
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The washdown pump and connection to ball valve. Also the fuel filter.
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And the drain plug.
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I took way too long doing this, many hours, since I was trying to be very neat about the sealant in places you will hardly ever see. Probably a complete waste of time I was thinking as I was tidying up sealant between the chase tubes with a q-tip. But it would have bugged me so glad it all looks good. And nice to finally install some stuff that's not coming back out anytime soon!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:35 pm
by Dan_Smullen
Joe, what kind of paint is the gray on the deck and in the bilge?

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:25 pm
by joe2700
Dan_Smullen wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:35 pm Joe, what kind of paint is the gray on the deck and in the bilge?
The flat grey on the deck and sides is system 3 yacht primer. Great paint I highly recommend.

The gloss grey in the bilge and storage areas is totalbilge bilge paint from Jamestown distributers. I like most of their products but not this one. It's really hard to keep a wet edge but then takes forever to really cure so you don't have to be careful with it. Next time I'd use Interlux Bilgekote instead, friends have had great luck with it.

I do like using bilge paint of some type though, smooth glossy surface makes it easy to keep clean and see if anything is starting to leak. Should be quite durable too... but we'll see on that front with this particular paint.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:17 am
by Jeff
Nice work!!! Very clean!!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:19 am
by Dan_Smullen
joe2700 wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:25 pm
Dan_Smullen wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:35 pm Joe, what kind of paint is the gray on the deck and in the bilge?
The flat grey on the deck and sides is system 3 yacht primer. Great paint I highly recommend.

The gloss grey in the bilge and storage areas is totalbilge bilge paint from Jamestown distributers. I like most of their products but not this one. It's really hard to keep a wet edge but then takes forever to really cure so you don't have to be careful with it. Next time I'd use Interlux Bilgekote instead, friends have had great luck with it.

I do like using bilge paint of some type though, smooth glossy surface makes it easy to keep clean and see if anything is starting to leak. Should be quite durable too... but we'll see on that front with this particular paint.
Thanks for the tip. I've been looking into bilge paint and have been looking at the TB stuff. Will take a closer look at Interlux.

Looking good as always, Joe!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:08 pm
by joe2700
Installed my fuel tank. Used Moellers aluminum brackets on the front, and have rubber pads on the back and side corners. Those pads are quite tight but the rest of the tank has plenty of room for expansion. Hoping that's an acceptable installation being tight right on the corners. If seems like with ample space everywhere else it could just flex as it expands? A little hard to tell as the sides are very convex right now. It's not going to come out easy after it expands at all thats certain.
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Also glued in my bow deck...
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Motorwell bottom...
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And the rear hatch frames. Also rounded the tops of the inwhales ready to fillet and glass soon. Last fiberglass on the hull I think.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:23 am
by joe2700
The environmental police came by and did the homemade boat inspection today. I made the request earlier this week thinking the wait would be at least a few weeks, but they were able to come today. Was just a quick look at the boat and motor to fill out a short form. He said this is the first truly homemade boat he's inspected, they are normally older rebuilt boats that don't have a HIN.

Glad to get it done early though, since there will be some time consuming back and forth to get this all done. All the registration office are closed and only doing registrations by mail. I sent my application and tax exemption in, hoping I didn't make any mistakes since it's not in person to correct. I hope to get my HIN in about a week, then I'll need to get that engraved and on the boat, then send proof in, then get the actual registration, then get it insured. If I can complete all that by the time I finish the boat I can put it on my slip and actually use it for a late fall season.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:01 pm
by Bogieman
Boat looks great! Big step getting her registered too

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:23 pm
by joe2700
Made a tool to shape the fillet on the side deck.
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Then ran a fillet all the way around. Used the rest of my ez fillet and when that ran out I mixed my own about 50-50 colloidal silica and microballons. Was pretty neat except near the corners where it was messy but that's ok.
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When that was firm but pliable I glassed over it. Wetted the glass on the bench in 4' pieces then carried it over and applied it with a fiberglass roller. Used this to smooth any imperfections in the fillet since it could still be shaped. Overall I think it came out really nice for a complicated joint. Should mean less fairing.
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Also did some work on the fuel system. Installed the barbed fittings at tank and fuel filter with gasoline rated plumbers tape. Straight barb out of the tank and out of the filter to the motor. Valved barb for the 2 inputs to the filter. One from the tank and one will be if I ever want to run from a portable tank for any reason. Installed the hose from tank to filter and the hose from filter to where the motor will be.
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And did a final confirmation my fuel fill and vent hoses would work before I finalize the console interior.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:59 am
by BB Sig
I like the fairing tool!

I like the vent hose cabinet. You might want to put some sort of anti-chaff material over the hose. Vibration will wear a hole.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:43 pm
by joe2700
BB Sig wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:59 am I like the fairing tool!

I like the vent hose cabinet. You might want to put some sort of anti-chaff material over the hose. Vibration will wear a hole.
Good point. I'll have access to it so I can run it for a little while then look for any scuffing on the hose and add some protection to those areas.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:32 pm
by Coach
Boat is looking great! You are bookin' right along. I called to get inspected and sent an email. Girl said an officer will get back to me. Still waiting for inspection date. It's been a little over a week so hopefully I will hear back this week from MA Enviro police to get my HIN.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:52 pm
by joe2700
Coach wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:32 pm Boat is looking great! You are bookin' right along. I called to get inspected and sent an email. Girl said an officer will get back to me. Still waiting for inspection date. It's been a little over a week so hopefully I will hear back this week from MA Enviro police to get my HIN.
I filled out their online form to request an inspection and thought I'd wait a few weeks. Got a call 2 or 3 business days later asking if they could come tomorrow. Probably just based on your local officers availability. So that part was easier than expected, hope you get a call back soon.

As soon as I got that inspection I filled out the registration paperwork. All their offices are still closed which I didn't realize, so mail in only. Since the homemade boat isn't common it was a little difficult to get the paperwork perfect to mail in, especially the salestax exemption(st-6e). They warn you if you mail in the st-6e it will take many weeks, they want you to use the online form. The online form is only set up for buying a boat though. I filled it out putting myself for the buyer and seller, then when you choose the reason you are exempt you can choose other and explain that you paid tax on the materials. I got the confirmation I needed to mail in for the boat registration, not sure I won't get a letter from the tax office later making me fix the exemption though.

Sent all the registration paperwork and a check in Friday, hopefully I got it all right and can get a HIN assigned. We'll see, would have been a lot easier to do in person for the strange use case.

I can't use my slip until the boat is insured, which of course requires it to be registered, which is why I'm trying to get ahead of this process.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:04 pm
by Fair WX Pilot
The boat looks great. I’m just up the road from you in NH and our DMV offices are open so just assumed yours would be as well. Shows how things can change with that state line. I think I’ve only driven to Logan twice since this all started so am obviously out of touch with MA.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:02 pm
by joe2700
Fair WX Pilot wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:04 pm The boat looks great. I’m just up the road from you in NH and our DMV offices are open so just assumed yours would be as well. Shows how things can change with that state line. I think I’ve only driven to Logan twice since this all started so am obviously out of touch with MA.
Our RMV is open(i think appointment only) but you need to see the environmental police for boat registration. Usually that's great since you don't have to go to the RMV!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:35 pm
by joe2700
I've been fairing the side decks and also rounded and sanded the rub rail. A few days of fairing all the final areas of the hull are in my future.

Couldn't help but have a sneak peak at how the rub rail will look varnished after sanding, by wetting it with some alcohol. I think it will look pretty sweet with the red hull I have planned.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:48 am
by BB Sig
Beautiful boat! The rubrails are going to look great!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:14 am
by Jeff
Agree, beautiful work!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:39 pm
by joe2700
Found one more spot of poor adhesion on the transom so I just sanded the entire thing down to re-fair. Better than wondering if I got it all.
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Took a fun break and installed the hydraulic steering cylinder on the motor. Systems stuff is a nice change of pace.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:38 pm
by TomW1
Great work. I love the raised sheer on the FS17. You are really doing a nice job. If you need any help with selecting a prop when the time comes, I'm here.

Tom

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:54 pm
by joe2700
TomW1 wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:38 pm Great work. I love the raised sheer on the FS17. You are really doing a nice job. If you need any help with selecting a prop when the time comes, I'm here.

Tom
Thanks Tom, once I weight the boat I'll reach out. The place I bought the motor should select a prop to try out but it will be good to have a second opinion on where to start.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:27 pm
by joe2700
I've been working on my hatches putting a thick backinh board on all of them inside the frame to keep them from warping. Also drilling the holes for the latches.
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Now that I have them on a real hatch I really like the friction hinges. Keeping the anchor hatch open is a great example.
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They will put a lot of strain on the attachment to the hatch through, and I was already worried about solidly attaching the hinges to the thin 3/8" hatch. I did a test tapping a 8-32 thread into g10. The impact driver stripped the screw without damaging the threads, so I think it holds a thread well. I will embed a g10 plate in the hatch lid where each hinge goes, and tap holes to attach the hinges with short machine screws. On the frame side the screws can go at least and inch into the frame, so happy with that.
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I also got my HIN assigned which is exciting. Anyone know where I can get the HIN engraved in 316 stainless steel?

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:40 am
by fallguy1000
Boat looks great.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:28 pm
by Fair WX Pilot
The boat looks great. Very interesting about the G10, well worth remembering.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:58 am
by joe2700
Haven't had much boat building time the past few months but have been working on some bits and pieces like the hatches.

I also added the cupholders to the console as well as getting drains set up for them so the inside of my console stays dry. You might see here I also decided to ditch the analogue guages and use a second plotter. I have the Suzuki gateway to show all engine information and warnings on these displays.
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Another problem I've been trying to figure out for a while is how to get my all around light over my head so it doesn't effect my night vision as I boat at night a lot. I also wanted a decently high VHF antenna. Both things need to pivot down so I can go under a low bridge and I wasn't loving anything I mocked up that had multiple tall things coming up from my console to mess with. Decided to make a bit of a mast with a light and VHF whip antenna at the top. The light will be directly over me, and the antenna will be high up but not super high gain since a small boat can roll around a lot. Used g10 tube for the mast and mocked up the layout for the top, then made it from plywood.
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For the bottom I am using a vhf antenna mount so the whole thing can pivot down. They use a 1"-14 thread so I needed a metal tube with that thread on one end and that would accept the g10 on the other. I drilled and tapped a short piece of 316 pipe then rounded the other end after enlarging it a tiny bit to accept the g10 tube. This whole part was one of the jankiest things I've done in a while, and I continue to think 316 is terrible to work with, but I'm trying to not use any 304 on the boat. As this is a one off part I used a cheap drill bit and tap for the threads. The drill bit had to be sharpened about 10 times to make it to depth and then went straight in the trash.

The tap made it about 1/3 in then I couldn't go further with a monkey wrench, and putting such an off center load was scaring me. I was about ready to just pay someone to make the part from the extra pipe so I decided to just power through. I did what I knew at the time was a terrible idea and hooked the tap to a 1/2" impact. I got another 20% of the way there before the tip of the tap was too chipped to continue. I tried sharpening it but had no good way to so that didn't help. Then I realized the tap was way longer than I needed, so I just used an angle grinder to cut off 3/8" from the tip of the tap exposing fresh threads. Doing this 3 more times I was able to finish tapping the hole.

Next up I rigged up a terrible "lathe" using the tap in the drill to spin the piece while I used a flap disk to shape it.

The threads are a mess and the outside is not evenly shaped but it doesn't look terrible and it works so I'll take it for now. I was going to glue the g10 in to this piece but then it wouldn't be possible to adjust the twist of the mast, so I decided to use set screws on the base instead. Of course 316 I broke a tap making these holes as well, but got that cleared and finished the part. As far as a practical fix to the problems I was trying to solve I'm really happy with this, just wish the base piece was higher quality.
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Last thing I did was etch my HIN on some 316 stainless pieces as I couldn't find anyone to make these. Had the HIN cut out of vinyl and used that as a mask while I etched the pieces suspended in ferric chloride for about 5 hours at room temp. Ended up with a nice deep engraving. I'll clean these pieces up and embed on one the transom and one in a hidden location.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:38 am
by pee wee
Nice work! 8)

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:01 am
by joe2700
I've been away from the project for a bit, got a puppy on Thanksgiving and a new puppy takes quite a lot of time and makes traveling to the boat difficult. Enjoying it though! Anyway, making some progress over the holidays.

For the rubrail I'm going to varnish it. I wanted to get some on there now to keep the wood clean and easy to tape while I worked near it. I'm going to use a 2 part varnish, that should be more durable than a one part product. It's still very thin though and would take many coats to build up. Also as it's harder it can crack if the wood expands or contracts too much. A solution is to build up a few coats of epoxy first, to build thickness and completely seal the wood for stability. Then a few coats of 2 part varnish over the top for looks and uv protection.

I epoxied a small sample of the oak to make sure it wouldn't be too dark, and I like how it looks.
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Then put 2 coats of epoxy on the rub rails. Great to see them bright! I then scuffed them right down though. They will be bright again soon enough.
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I also needed to build the lip that transitions from the side deck to the rub rail. I wanted this to be a consistent reveal along the entire sheer line as I think it will be an obvious visual feature. I applied a bead of quickfair along the transition, then used my custom tool to shape it. While I still have plenty of fairing to do along this transition to make it seamless, I did get a consistently sized lip the entire way, and I think it looks great.
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This is the tool I made for it.
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I also started making the delrin plates that will stabilize the seat back as it slides fore and aft.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:51 am
by Jeff
Nice work!!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:16 pm
by joe2700
For my seat I cut out the oak arms and guides now that I know the right length. Marked the pivot and rounded end on each arm then drilled them.
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For the guides I marked where the arms are at the fore and aft limit of travel and what angle that is. Then cut out the slot for the arms to travel in. The arms will slide tight against delrin on the inside, and I'll leave a slight gap between the arms and oak guides on the outside so they don't bind up.
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Did a test fit with the cooler again and the pivot action is pretty nice. I need a bit more clearance on the oak guides, and I need to use locknuts since it jams when the pivots get too loose, but much better than the test one before the delrin. Still need to put nice rounded corners and edges on all the parts.
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Only problem is the cooler doesn't quite open all the way, I needed the seat to go about 1/2" further forward. Without opening all the way the lid won't stay open on its own. It would be pretty difficult to change that now, so instead I'll take 1/2" off the back side of the seat back. Bit of a pain but might as well get it right.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:45 pm
by joe2700
Made some progress on the hatch lids. Routed out the space for the g10 plate for each hinge...
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...then glued them in.
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Once that's cured I can round all the edges on the hatches then fair them for primer. Back to sanding the side decks for now.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:16 am
by cape man
Nice details and documentation.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:07 pm
by joe2700
My bow deck is curved, and has a low spot in front of the hatch where the cleat goes. I think it developed when I glued in the deck, and it became more obvious when I created the lip around the edge, that was actually higher that the middle. Since the tip of the bow is correct, and so is the edge of the hatch opening, I just loaded the area with quick fair and pivoted a straight edge across it. Got the basic shape in the first pass, but the middle still has some low spots to fill in.
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I continued a second pass of fairing down the sidedecks. I also worked on my new dash layout now that I'm going all digital instead of some analogue gauges. First I carefully laid out the outer dimensions and center point of each item on some particle board. I want to keep this carefully laid out reference so I drilled a small hole at each corner and transferred the points through to a second piece of particle board.
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I also wanted to save the cutout templates for when I do the real cutouts on the console, so I transferred the measurements to my template and cut them out. Put in my two. 9" displays, vhf, usb charger, and stereo control pad. I think they look great, and no unexpected conflicts with spacing.
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And they fit with all the sun covers on too.
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Working with the electronics is so much more fun... but gotta keep fairing I'm almost done that part. Need to get across the finish line on it.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:21 pm
by Fuzz
I am going to go out on a limb here. What we have is not a boat but another work of art :D

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:52 am
by joe2700
Fuzz wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:21 pm I am going to go out on a limb here. What we have is not a boat but another work of art :D
I appreciate it Fuzz, but let's not jump the gun. Still plenty of ways to mess it all up!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:50 am
by Jeff
Nice work!!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:27 pm
by joe2700
Started off enlarging the gap between the cooler and seat back. Put the whole seat back through the table saw to cut a corner off.
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Then I clamped in a new vertical piece. This will net me about 3/8".
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I gained the last 1/8" I need by extending how far forward the arms can pivot. After shaping the arms and their guides and bolting it all together the seat back works really well. Slides easily but feels rock solid. You can shake the whole boat from the seat back.
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Getting back to the hatches I drilled and tapped the g10 in them for the hinge screws. This worked well but the friction hinges are chunky, so decided to inset them. Another thing that will burn a few hours, but I think it looks much nicer. Very happy I went with the tapped g10 in the hatches, they feel very secure, more secure than a wood screw into thin plywood ever could. The curve of the anchor hatch doesn't quite match the deck anymore. It does with a little pressure, I'm hoping when it's latched it will look right, otherwise I'll need to reshape this hatch lid.
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I also clamped the backer on all my hatches. Some of my 3/8" hatches were warping a little so instead of just putting a backer where the latch goes, I decided to put a 1/2" backer on the entire hatch. I first screwed my hatches down to a flat piece of plywood, then glued on the backers. Let it all cure before removing the hatches from the flat board and they are now nice and flat.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:48 am
by Rmarsh
Any updates? I had been following this build closely.... It was looking great and very close to being finished.
Hope all is well with the builder

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:36 am
by jonnymac
Rmarsh wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:48 am Any updates? I had been following this build closely.... It was looking great and very close to being finished.
Hope all is well with the builder
Joe posted somewhere else on the forum in late September, so hopefully he is still working on this beautiful boat.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 9:49 am
by fallguy1000
What thickness is the console where the mfds go?

Mine is 3/4 and not happy about the weight of it.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:59 am
by joe2700
Rmarsh wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:48 am Any updates? I had been following this build closely.... It was looking great and very close to being finished.
Hope all is well with the builder
Sorry I disappeared! Just got busy with life this past year trying to finish the boat and prep for a wedding and with work as always.

Overall I finished the boat over the summer other than final paint and a few accessories. Was going to have a pro paint it but that was getting delayed so I splashed it at the beginning of August in primer gray and enjoyed using it until I had to pull it out at the beginning of November. I'm now planning to paint it myself this winter.

I'll post a few teaser pics below but I do plan to catch back up with the detailed build log since I like having it for myself anyway.
fallguy1000 wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 9:49 am What thickness is the console where the mfds go?

Mine is 3/4 and not happy about the weight of it.
Probably too late to be helpful, but my whole console is 1/2"

Here is an album showing the boat on it's first trip out to the Boston Harbor islands, it's last sunset cruise of the season a few days ago, taking my Mom for a ride, and our pup enjoying the boat.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 6:45 am
by Rmarsh
Joe...glad to hear that you are well.... and that you finished (except final paint) your boat and got it in the water! I look forward to your updates, trips, and performance reports!
wow...your console came out great!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2021 4:35 pm
by Fuzz
Taking mom for a ride in the boat you built had to have felt good :D

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:01 am
by joe2700
Fuzz wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 4:35 pm Taking mom for a ride in the boat you built had to have felt good :D
Least I could do after taking over her garage for about 5 years!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:04 am
by VT_Jeff
Nice work Joe, conrgats on the pre-paint splash! Looks really professional! Taking Mom for a ride around the harbor islands in a boat you built in her garage is priceless!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 2:41 pm
by TomW1
Joe glad you got her in the water this summer. Hope your mom enjoyed her ride.

Tom

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2021 5:41 am
by cape man
Her lines above the water looks a lot like an OD18 with the raised sheer. Beautiful job.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 1:25 am
by TomTom
Your boat looks incredible! How did I miss this build log! Love the details.

I agree with Cape Man - lovely lines that remind me of an OD - did you build the Hull exactly as per the plans? Can’t wait to see more photos.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:15 am
by joe2700
TomTom wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 1:25 am Your boat looks incredible! How did I miss this build log! Love the details.

I agree with Cape Man - lovely lines that remind me of an OD - did you build the Hull exactly as per the plans? Can’t wait to see more photos.
Thanks! No I much prefer the look of a raised bow(can't hurt to keep you dry either) so when I raised the sheer I rocked the top panel up at the bow to add about an extra 3" of height at the bow end compared to the raised sheer plans.

Alright picking up what I was doing at the end of February...

My hatch frames were not deep enough to properly locate the catch for the latch so I added an extra piece everywhere a latch was going.
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I also installed the HIN I etched out of 316 stainless on the transom and glued 2 other into small pieces of wood to install in hidden areas later.
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Epoxy coated all the hatches and some other parts that were still exposed wood on the edges and to fill the weave.
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By the end of March I had primed the decks and inwhales.
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Our pup was 6 months old at that point so he had to inspect the work.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 6:08 pm
by joe2700
Now at the beginning of April the focus was on console, seat, and hatches. These items were behind schedule compared the boat itself and I could work on them closer to home. I needed to seal up the exposed edges of these parts. All large surfaces had at least one layer of cloth, so just focusing on edges.
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Next up I primed the inside of these components.
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I realized I needed some venting on the fuel tank compartment, so cut out some holes for vents and added backing plates so the vent itself would be flush on the outside which you will see later.
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Next up I glassed all the outside edges of the seats and console. I wasn't originally planning to do this since the insides are glassed and it would add a lot of fairing. A friends console seat had cracked during a rough trip and I was thinking about how some of the edges may be high wear, so I decided to do it. First on the seats.
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I also primed the swim platform(such a pain to fair), antenna/light mast, inside of console, and the back of the console control panel.
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Swim platform looked great dry fit!
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 6:47 am
by Rmarsh
Great to see all the details and custom touches you have put into your build! Like a lot of the builds here yours is one of a kind!
I for one would like to see more pictures.
Bob M.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:48 am
by VT_Jeff
Great looking work Joe!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:37 am
by Dan_Smullen
Rmarsh wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 6:47 am Great to see all the details and custom touches you have put into your build! Like a lot of the builds here yours is one of a kind!
I for one would like to see more pictures.
Bob M.
Agreed! The raised lip on the combing is a nice touch. Great benefit keeping water out of the cock pit, but I'm always weighing that against discomfort when sitting on the rail. :doh:

Swim step is also sweet. Will it be bolted to the transom, epoxied or both?

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:56 pm
by joe2700
Rmarsh wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 6:47 am Great to see all the details and custom touches you have put into your build! Like a lot of the builds here yours is one of a kind!
I for one would like to see more pictures.
Bob M.
Thanks Bob and Jeff! I'll be catching up the build log over the next few weeks so should have plenty of updates. FYI Bob in case you hadn't noticed with the way I'm adding pictures you can flip through a few different related pictures in many of the places I add them. Just hover over the picture and click the right arrow and there are usually 2 or 3.
Dan_Smullen wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:37 am
Agreed! The raised lip on the combing is a nice touch. Great benefit keeping water out of the cock pit, but I'm always weighing that against discomfort when sitting on the rail. :doh:

Swim step is also sweet. Will it be bolted to the transom, epoxied or both?
Getting that balance right is hard but I think this one is rounded enough to be comfortable, I've spent some time sitting on it without issue. It will help keep a little water out but honestly it's mainly for looks, I think it's one of those touches that makes it look more like it came out of a mold.

The swim platform will just be glued on. I'll grind through all the fairing compound down to bare glass and then over a square foot of epoxy contact if the swim platform came off half the transom would come with it.

"looking into the future" I can tell you after glueing it on I have jumped up and down with all my weight without issue, so far so good.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 3:12 pm
by Dan_Smullen
joe2700 wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:56 pm [
Dan_Smullen wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:37 am
Agreed! The raised lip on the combing is a nice touch. Great benefit keeping water out of the cock pit, but I'm always weighing that against discomfort when sitting on the rail. :doh:

Swim step is also sweet. Will it be bolted to the transom, epoxied or both?
Getting that balance right is hard but I think this one is rounded enough to be comfortable, I've spent some time sitting on it without issue. It will help keep a little water out but honestly it's mainly for looks, I think it's one of those touches that makes it look more like it came out of a mold.

The swim platform will just be glued on. I'll grind through all the fairing compound down to bare glass and then over a square foot of epoxy contact if the swim platform came off half the transom would come with it.

"looking into the future" I can tell you after glueing it on I have jumped up and down with all my weight without issue, so far so good.
The future indeed looks bright!

I like the lip on top of the combing because it's a classic touch. Like architectural details in a house, the style originates in function. Glad to hear initial seat testing indicates comfort.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 9:10 pm
by joe2700
Next up at the end of April I was applying bilge paint to the inside/bottom of the seats and console.
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Glassed the outside corners of the console and seat back which I had not done with the other seats earlier.
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By early May it was time for the first time she touched water! A float test to mark the watertline. Installed the console, hatches, and most of the hardware to get close to the real weight. Was going to fill a tote with water to simulate the fuel but we realized a person sitting on the console seat was just about the right weight in the right place.

Pushing her into the water for the first time she stayed on the surface, good start...
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And then stepping in for the first time. Very satisfying!
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After enjoying the moment I had a friend sit still on the console and we slowly rotated the boat around while I marked the waterline with a sharpie mark every few feet around the whole perimeter.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:21 am
by Jeff
Congrats!!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 2:04 am
by joe2700
Later in May after the first splash I got engaged which was wonderful, but of course wedding planning started to cut into boat building. I also committed to finishing the project by selling the old boat.

At the end of the month I corrected a time consuming mistake. I had spent a lot of time glueing on something like 60 stainless nuts for the seat and console to screw in to. I don't remember why I didn't just tap the g10, but I didn't. Probably had already drilled holes that were too large to tap for 1/4-20 bolts. As I test fit the console and seats a few times I had continuous problems with the stainless galling and the bolt would get stuck in the nut. I suspect the alignment wasn't perfect and the side loads cause the stainless to gall really easily, which it is prone too. I had no faith I'd actually get them all in during install.

Instead I knocked off all the nuts I had glued on using a hammer and chisel and glued in a second layer of g10 to tap into. I've found g10 doesn't gall at all, making it great to use with the 316 stainless hardware.
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With wedding planning and the sailing season in full swing it was not much progress until July, other than finishing priming the seats and console. Next I starting rigging the console. I used the mounting templates to mark locations for the electronics.
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Then drilled the corners and used a jig saw to cut out the openings.
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With the electronics in place I used a level to make sure all the tops were aligned then screwed them in.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:04 am
by VT_Jeff
Congrats on the engagement!

Great work on the documentation, and the build obviously. G10 is new to me, my interest is peaked. Always learning something new on here!

What and where are you sailing?

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 10:17 am
by joe2700
Thanks Jeff!

Yea I have been buying 1/4" g10 sheets from either Jamestown Distributors or Mcmaster Carr. It's actually FR4 now as G10 is the older grade but I see most still use the old name.

https://www.mcmaster.com/8667K15/.

I didn't see any g10 on boat builder central but if I missed it let me know and I'll link to that instead.

It's expensive and terrible to cut, dulls tools like crazy. I have an old table saw blade dedicated to it. That said it bonds very well with epoxy, is completely waterproof, and very strong. It machines very easily with standard metal tools. Very quick and easy to tap even with no lube. I did a few tests driving a 316 machine screw into a tapped hole with an impact driver and the screw failed before the g10 every time. I think putting strips of g10 vertically on the deck using a few laters of glass with a fillet then tapping into it is the best way to attach a console or seat securely with no holes in the deck or metal worry about. Also great for backing plates. I also embedded it in my hatch lids for attaching hinges.

For sailing I mainly sail on a Swan 42 out of Newport. Most of the major NYYC regattas plus some things like Block Island Race Week. Doing Newport -> Bermuda this year if it doesn't get canceled again. Between that and some weekends sailing small catboats on Cape Cod I have a few months in the spring that are mostly sailing before it slows down over the summer. Lot's of fun but not much boat building.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:54 am
by joe2700
At the beginning of July I moved the boat to the yacht club to rig it.

I ran steering hoses, wiring harness, and control cables from the engine to console.
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I installed the helm and throttle in the console.
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Hooked up the steering at the engine end and bled the system. Also ran the harness and control cables through a rigging tube and connected them at the engine. Was using the Suzuki factory service manual for all of it. For the engine I also installed a cheap amazon prop to start with.
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Made all the harness connections at the console and installed the ignition switch and troll mode switch. Also installed the switch panel.
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Had some help from the pup when it was my time to watch him but he was in his teenage phase and didn't always help progress. Still fun to have have around.
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Installed my MFDs and VHF and got to test out night mode while I was working late. At this point I also had the compass and light/antenna mast installed. Also the stereo which is a black box in the console you control through the MFD or a small remote.
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I had all of critical equipment wired up even though the switch panel wasn't connected yet.
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And the NMEA fuel level sender was hooked up too.
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There was still plenty to do but nothing that couldn't happen while in the water in her slip so I launched her under her own power for the first time at the very beginning of August. I was worried about how long the engine had been sitting having never run so I squirted some fogging oil in to each cylinder and used the prop to turn it over by hand a few times. Got everything secured again and backed her into the water. Engine fired up like it had been running 5 minutes ago... something I had honestly been stressing about for weeks doing all the rigging myself with no experience.

My fiancee was traveling but had a few friends who had helped do some priming earlier in the build come for the first trip. I had the break in procedure written on an index card and we followed that as we got the first hour run time on the clock. One of my favorite parts is just how quiet these modern 4 stokes are. Quick clip of the first trip with 18 minutes on the engine.

https://youtu.be/EljZDBe9E1A

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:18 am
by Jeff
Really nice work!!! Jeff

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:32 am
by VT_Jeff
"used the prop to turn it over by hand a few times. "

Going to assume you had the plugs out when you did this....?

I agree about the 4-stroke thoughts: well worth the extra weight, IMO.

Sounds like you do some actual, serious, sailing! Keep us posted on the Bermuda trip, sounds like a blast!

Would love to see some longer videos of that boat screaming around when you can, amazing work all around!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:07 pm
by TomW1
Well done Joe. :D Tom

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:27 pm
by joe2700
Thanks everyone!
VT_Jeff wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:32 am "used the prop to turn it over by hand a few times. "

Going to assume you had the plugs out when you did this....?

I agree about the 4-stroke thoughts: well worth the extra weight, IMO.

Sounds like you do some actual, serious, sailing! Keep us posted on the Bermuda trip, sounds like a blast!

Would love to see some longer videos of that boat screaming around when you can, amazing work all around!
Correct! Sprayed the fogging oil in through the spark plug holes and turned it over before reinstalling them. Was just worried about seating the rings properly after they sat for so long.

I have a good video of my last run of the season plus some performance testing I will post soon.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer - sea trials

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:49 am
by joe2700
By September I had put the first 20 hours on the engine so time for the first maintenance. Pulled the boat out and completed the first service changing the oil, filter, gear oil, and greasing everything.

I was a little under propped since I could hit the rev limiter at full throttle so I also changed the first cheap amazon prop(11-1/2 x 13) to a second cheap amazon prop(11-1/4 x 15). I plan to get a nice stainless prop once I get the correct one figured out. Will talk about this more when I get to performance results.

Wasn't using the boat a whole lot during September as it was the final run up to our wedding in early October. We DIY'd a lot for the wedding with help of family and friends and had a great time. After we recovered from that just used the boat as much as possible on the Charles and out in Boston harbor through early November when I have to be out of my slip. A few random pics of our fall trips.
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I did manage to find a rock cutting through somewhere I thought was shallow and sandy, but was in fact shallow and rocky. Wasn't on plane but hit hard enough to really jar the boat and I checked for water coming in. There was none but I felt good about having the separate sealed compartments as we completed the rest of our journey back. After pulling the boat it was a pretty good scratch to fill on the chine, but no structural damage.
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Early December I took a last ride of the year back on the Cape and did my most intentional performance testing. Here are some pics from the last ride.
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And here is a video of the last ride, I'll detail all my performance results in the next post.

https://youtu.be/1mT0aXom_F8

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:13 pm
by VT_Jeff
Wow! I'm guessing you know that marsh pretty well!

That Simrad display is awesome. I don't even have a fuel gauge!

Looked like it took a few milliseconds to go from 19 to 27, slick!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:31 pm
by Dan_Smullen
Beautiful ride! Looks like a great place to fish!

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:21 pm
by joe2700
VT_Jeff wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:13 pm Wow! I'm guessing you know that marsh pretty well!

That Simrad display is awesome. I don't even have a fuel gauge!

Looked like it took a few milliseconds to go from 19 to 27, slick!
I've been though there a few times haha, one handed(holding the phone in the other) was a new challenge though! Had to try to come in at a speed I could make the turn since I couldn't easily adjust the throttle. It does pick up to WOT pretty quick!
Dan_Smullen wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:31 pm Beautiful ride! Looks like a great place to fish!
Thanks Dan! There are a few spots around these little islands in the bay that even I have caught some fish and I would not call myself a fisherman by any stretch of the imagination.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:38 am
by Fuzz
Really enjoyed the video :wink:

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer - Testing

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:33 pm
by joe2700
As I mentioned in the previous post, on my last day out for the year I did some performance testing.

I had used the boat for around 30 hours so far, 10 of those after I changed props. Overall my impression was that the boat performed very well. It was fast enough, maneuvered well at low speeds, maneuvered well at high speeds when there wasn't ventilation, was pretty dry, and was good in mild chop for such a flat bottom.

The boat drained easily when moving at all and no water came in through the gemlux duck bill scuppers even when standing at the back. At rest it drained most of the water so you would never have to worry about leaving it in the rain, but retained a little which can be annoying. I think this is a combination of the duck bill scuppers needing a little pressure to open, and the sole being a little too flat so water doesn't all go to the stern. I plan to experiment with removing the duck bills, although I suspect water will then come in when you stand at the back. Another option is to put a 3 way valve in the drain hose so I can drain to the bilge when I was a dry sole, but be self bailing most of the time. It's not the end of the world but if I can find a solution that would be great.

Ergonomically the seats all seemed to work well, I love my console and driving position, and the stereo sounds great. Even in primer grey she got plenty of compliments and surprise she was home built.

With the first prop(11-1/2 x 13) I would hit the rev limiter and I had ventilation issues when turning and even occasionally when going straight in mild chop. This was with the motor trimmed all the way down. With the second prop(11-1/4 x 15) I no longer hit the limiter, but was still at the upper end of the range. I no longer had ventilation going straight with the motor down, but couldn't trim it up much. Ventilation in turns was reduced but still happened sometimes.

My motor is already at the lowest mounting position so I can not lower it without significant modifications to the transom. That said, it seems like the cavitation plate is already just below the plane of the bottom of the boat, so I don't think I should need to go lower. I know it's hard to tell from pictures, I'll need to check again with a straight edge.
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I will say I wish the motor trimmed down a little more or that the transom had a few more degrees of angle. I can only use the very bottom end of the trim range as is, the rest is wasted. I've also always liked having the option of tucking the prop way under the boat and pushing it up either to get on plane in a hurry or hold the boat on plane at slower speeds. The motor is in a fine angle for normal use, but being in the middle of the trim range would offer more flexibility.

Both of the props so far have been very cheap aluminum ones. I'm hoping that switching to a higher quality stainless prop will reduce ventilation further. If that does not help one last thing to look at will be if I'm getting turbulence off the keel.

Numbers coming up next...

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:33 am
by joe2700
From my impressions in the last post, on to the performance numbers.

To start I must reveal this is probably the heaviest FS17 ever built. Very glad I don't think I ever claimed this would be a lightweight build! I got the car/trailer weight right before and after putting the boat in for testing and she is 1780 lbs with a full 22 gallon fuel tank, 6 pack/bag of ice in the cooler, and all normal tools and equipment. That means with me onboard we are talking 1940 lbs for a light leave the dock weight and with a few friends and full cooler/gear you are getting into the 2300-2500 lb range. Raised sheer, large console, side decks, large fuel tank, 4 stroke, and lots of hardware will do that. Good thing I raised the sole...
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From the study plans the displacement at the DWL is 1,465 lbs with a PPI of 330 lbs. That means I'm about 475lbs over the design displacement and theoretically about 1.5" lower in the water.

Performance numbers:
  • 1940 lbs as tested
  • Suzuki DF60A 60HP outboard
  • 11-1/4 x 15 aluminum prop
  • Salt water
Top speed tested by making multiple runs up and down the channel in opposing directions and taking the average speed to eliminate wind/current:
  • 28.2kts (32.5mph) @ 6047 rpm
  • With a 2.27:1 drive ratio that means about 14% prop slip.
I also did a test accelerating from a stop to top speed, then backing off in 1000 rpm increments to record speed and fuel economy. I advanced the throttle quickly but did not just slam it forward. In this test I only went one direction so I would expect these speeds to be up to half a knot off. I have a video of the MFD for this entire test below. Note the speeds are based on gps, so probably lag a little behind reality.
  • 0-10 kts: 7 seconds
  • 0-20 kts: 10 seconds
  • 0-26 kts: 20 seconds
  • *Trimmed motor up to reach 28 kt top speed

ktsrpmNM/gal
28.260475.0
2250006.7
1440007.2
7.530006.0
5.5200010.0
Video of the test:

https://youtu.be/3QliL304t7Q

Overall I think the performance is great. I hope to reduce ventilation and perhaps gain a tiny bit of performance by finding a high quality stainless prop. If it slightly reduced max RPM that would be ok as I'm pretty close to the top of the 5,300-6,300 rpm range. If that doesn't resolve the ventilation I'll look at the keel or perhaps having to lower the motor as that's really the only performance problem.

Other than that I can make a 100 mile round trip at a quiet and comfortable 22 kt cruising speed keeping 1/3 fuel in reserve. On a much more regular basis I can make a ton of short trips in comfort with friends and beer without ever worrying about fuel. Really loving it so far!

So what's next. Paint! I was going to have someone spray it with awlgrip but have decided to do it myself. I'm going to roll alexseal using their rolling additive that hopefully means no tipping required. The boat is back in the garage and I will begin removing everything. Just picked up this trunk full of alexseal to keep me busy this winter.
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Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:34 pm
by TomW1
Joe ran your specs through my speed and prop calculator and came up with changing to a SS prop will give you a top speed of 36.4 mph as you tested. I recommend PTprops as they have a return program for $80 if the 1st is not quite right. Okay the program throughout the 36.4 mph at your weight of 1940lbs and a SS prop the SRD 11.25 x 16 SRD from PTProps https://www.ptprop.com/c-class-propellers1.html If you are constantly loading to 2400lbs then you want an 11.25 x 15 pitch. Be aware the rang of speed could be plus or minus a couple of miles per hour as the model throws out.

The SRD has some rake so it will hold onto the water longer making steering easier.

Please ask if you need any help or questions.

Tom

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:57 am
by joe2700
TomW1 wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:34 pm Joe ran your specs through my speed and prop calculator and came up with changing to a SS prop will give you a top speed of 36.4 mph as you tested. I recommend PTprops as they have a return program for $80 if the 1st is not quite right. Okay the program throughout the 36.4 mph at your weight of 1940lbs and a SS prop the SRD 11.25 x 16 SRD from PTProps https://www.ptprop.com/c-class-propellers1.html If you are constantly loading to 2400lbs then you want an 11.25 x 15 pitch. Be aware the rang of speed could be plus or minus a couple of miles per hour as the model throws out.

The SRD has some rake so it will hold onto the water longer making steering easier.

Please ask if you need any help or questions.

Tom
Thanks Tom. I'll give something like that a try in the spring. If I still have problems with ventilation are there any specific props you would recommend? Some people seem to suggest 4 blade props can help with that, or perhaps just a 3 blade with more aggressive cup or something like that.

Re: FS 17 - Raised Sheer

Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:45 pm
by TomW1
Joe the two props I gave you above have added rake that hold water on the blades longer and will do the same as added cup. Usually, cup and rake work together and you go down a pitch for that. I will look and see what I come up with.

Tom