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DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:16 pm
by Matt Gent
Reference the linked thread, where I found the broker listing for a DE25 that I just bought in North Carolina. http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=61864

Its not a build thread since I didn't build the boat. I feel for the owner/builder, who put a ton of time & effort into this and for outside reasons wasn't able to fully enjoy it. I haven't yet met him as I bought it through the brokerage.

I'll use this thread to ask questions and post pictures as I use/upgrade/modify the boat. It is the long cockpit version, and built to plans as far as I can tell. Suzuki DF140 on an Armstrong bracket, SeaStar steering, 2X 30gal poly tanks in boxes in the cockpit.

It tows great with a mid-size pickup:
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In the other thread I mentioned the prop ventilates in turns. I've had boats that were worse, but it is noticeable. Here's a pic of the keel, it runs full length to the transom. However the motor is nearly 30" back on the bracket. The motor is also mounted fairly high, in the lowest bolt hole. I didn't yet get a chance to put a straight-edge from the running surface back.
IMG_5927 (Medium).JPG
Another observation - this boat has zero through-hulls. Not even a plug. To go along with this, it doesn't have a bilge pump. As best I can tell, the only way for water to get into the bilge would be for a major leak in the cabin, or for enough water to get into the cockpit to get over the lip into the cabin or over the bottom of the transom hatch doors. Bilge was dry when I inspected the boat, and it had been sitting there for months. I'm not too comfortable in taking trips without having one at all...

The cabin top feels like it is laminated from thin ply with some strips (or foam?) as core/spacers. Is this standard in the plans? What kind of weight can that take - people sitting or standing on it? Paddle boards or kayaks? It is reinforced from inside where things are attached, like hand rails or the mast.

Matt

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:36 am
by Jeff
Matt, Congrats on your purchase!! Would you send us some photos of the cabin? Really good looking boat. Hope everything works out for the builder!! Jeff

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:06 am
by topwater
With 30 " of setback that skeg should be no problem.

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:57 pm
by MrPaul
That's a beautiful boat. I'm no expert but I second your notion on adding a bilge pump. Someone might be able to give you a better answer on your cabin top questions if you had some pics of the underside of the roof....while you're at you might be able to take some pics of the cabin for us to ogle.

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:39 pm
by TomW1
Matt no problem with the keel causing problem with the Armstrong Bracket. You mentioned the motor and prop being high, so that is probably the result of your ventilation. Run a straight edge from the bottom and see how high the center of the prop is. Also see my post in your other post on propellers, I think with a change we can give you a better handling boat. Get rid of the plowing and help with the handling, and top end. I have a prop in mind that provides lift at the bow and is a four blade that provides better handling over a 3 blade. We will just need to dial in the size.

Tom

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:07 pm
by Matt Gent
Photo dump:
Berth
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Cabin roof fwd
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Cabin roof aft
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Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:08 pm
by Matt Gent
Cabin looking aft
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Cabin looking fwd
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Trunk cabin roof
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Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:09 pm
by Matt Gent
Hardtop. The mast is hinged and held up with ropes. I may make a fixed/removable prop for it, so I can slide paddleboards up there.
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Trunk hatch. This is probably the first thing I'll refinish, as there is a little checking. Could use routed edges. I like the window for some light down inside, but it isn't strong enough to stand on. Also need a prop to hold this thing up safely.
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Fwd deck / sprit. Its got a nice plow anchor, and the rode slips nicely into the little portal, and the box drains out the side.
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Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:11 pm
by Matt Gent
Trailer tie downs
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I'll address the maintenance and safety stuff first. I don't like these tie-downs, the trailer really is too short for the boat so there is no structure aft of the transom. At least the bunks go that far back, but the trailer is made for an 18-21' boat.

Not sure what I'll do here, I don't like the "seatbelt" style of strap over the gunnels due to wear.

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:29 pm
by jacquesmm
Prop: I agree with Tom, the prop is probably high. You say fairly high but can we get a number? If you call Armstrong, they will probably tell you that for that set back, the cavitation plate should be about 2" above the hull surface.

Plowing: what is that? I don't see anything explaining what happens there but it probably is trim.

Roof: it looks built as designed: 1/4" framed. It is not a roof to jump on but with that framing, it can take a board or two, no problem.

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:27 pm
by Matt Gent
The boat doesn't plow. It does trim up a bit around 10-13mph, and lays a decent wake at those speeds. But I still wouldn't call it a plow. It would be nice to keep the nose down at higher speeds to cut into chop. It isn't particularly sensitive to engine trim, and does not have trim tabs.

Took it to the truck scales this afternoon. Had about 40 gallons of fuel on board, the two batteries, ground tackle. Not much else. 4660lb on the trailer, which is advertised at 775lb. So the complete boat is 3880 as it sat; 3250 less fuel and engine.

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:29 pm
by Madgar
First, congrats on the purchase. This is the actual boat that turned me on to bateau. The owner originally had it on craigslist back in November (I think) and I contacted him to learn more about it. He explained that he built the boat but his plans changed and he was going to build another one more conducive of long trips in shallow areas, I forget which boat that was but it was another bateau design ( probably still have the email somewhere (edit: he's building ST21 with small diesel)). Anyway, I loved it and really wanted it but couldn't justify selling my Parker for it since I had just gotten that. He talked briefly to me about the build but wouldn't elaborate except for to tell me I should consider buildin my own with all the questions I had for him.

It was at that point that I found this site and have been on it everyday since. It was your boat that inspired me to join the site, get ready to build a canoe (whenever my lumber will arrive), hopefully build a larger boat after canoe, all with the final plan to build your boat. I absolutely love the lines and overall design.

I'm not sure what you paid (and don't need to know) but the asking price with that motor and bracket certainly didn't leave him even the funds he paid to build that boat. I'm happy you got it and hope I see a lot of mods you plan on doing. I believe this is the first DE25 with bracket actually represented on this site. Again, congrats (a part of me is a little jealous :D , but happy for you)

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:03 pm
by TomW1
Matt I wrote plow when you had said squat in your post in the other thread. By changing the prop we can definitely get rid of most if not all of the squat effect. I have done some calculations with your basic boat and the numbers you have given. Your top speed according to Crouch should top out at around 33mph. This is based on your scale weight with fuel, motor, adding 2 people at 150 each plus 300 lbs. of gear(coolers, fishing equipment, ice, safety gear, etc.) and of course deducting the trailer weight. So total weight for the calculations were 4680lbs.

The prop I would look at would be the Power Tech PTR4. It has excellent lift and grip and load carrying capacities. Just what you are looking for in the DE25. It comes in a 13.5"diameter and I would start with a 17 pitch, to start dialing it in. A 16 pitch be a better place to start if I knew what you had on right now and knew what speeds you are reaching at each 1000 rpm's.

I really like the boat! :D

Tom

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:48 pm
by Matt Gent
This thing is gonna be a lot of fun, already getting use in a bunch of different modes.

Here's some performance info, will update as I gather more. Took the boat out over the weekend, two adults, a toddler, and some gear, about 4400lb running. Top speed of just under 34mph GPS puts the Crouch # at 190 with 140hp.

The prop is a Stiletto D811319, with what feels like a fairly heavy cup on it. The gearcase is 2.38:1. The motor is mounted HIGH! I talked with the builder, he said he put it way up to run in shallow water around his place. At rest, with half fuel but no people, the cavitation plate is just under the waterline. It is about 2-1/2" above the running surface, with a sketchy measurement (one person, not a good straight-edge).

The first thing I'll do is drop the engine 2 or 3 holes.

Here's the boat at just under 4000lb at the dock. Scuppers are well clear, and you can see how high the engine sits.
DE_transom_at_dock(crop).jpg
Speed & slip data
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I used my phone level app to track trim. No idea how accurate that is, but the trim rises from zero at slow idle to about 3.7deg at 3500, and drops pretty promptly from there. I'll get some running and wake pictures when I have someone to help.

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:51 pm
by TomW1
Hi Matt you have a good prop. The Stiletto has some cupping and rake. Yours is a 13 1/4 diameter by 19 pitch. By dropping the motor 2 or 3 holes you should have a better handling boat. The one thing I noticed is when I ran your slip numbers through my calculator that your numbers were 5-6% higher than mine. Not a problem just a thing as formula's can be different and it doesn't affect the boat.

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:05 pm
by Matt Gent
Docking this thing is a real handful, its been so windy for the last few weeks. The bracket doesn't help, but it is really driven by the wind.

Managed to get an on-water pic from a friend
DE25_ICW (Medium).jpg
If you could deal with the noise while running at higher throttle settings, I'm convinced this thing would be fine with a 115 or even a 90. Also I forgot the dogs were with me, so the weight for the performance numbers above is more like 4550.

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:20 am
by Fuzz
Boat looks really nice on the water. I really like that hull design.
Light boats give good performance but they are going to blow around more in the wind. All part of the trade off.

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:25 am
by topwater
Yep looks good on the water. As you can see from the pic you are still a little light in the bow. Jacques told me at the last
builders meet that these boat are designed to carry some weight forward . As you accumulate more stuff over time it should
bring it down to its water line and help with the wind.

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:41 am
by Jeff
She really looks nice in the water!! Jeff

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:56 pm
by Matt Gent
Short update on the DE25 as I've gotten more time on it, just completed a week trip around South FL.

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Took 6 days, left from Port St Lucie, down to the Keys for mini-season, then back up around the West coast and across Lake O to home. 628 miles, ~170 gallons of fuel, 40 hours underway, 4 nights on the boat (plus 2 in a condo).

Some general notes about the boat's performance:
-I got the NMEA system hooked up to the engine so I now use the GPS for engine data and navigate by Navionics app on an Android tablet. This lets me get fuel burn / economy / remaining range real-time, which is pretty sweet. Also glad I did it since I thought the economy would be better than it is.
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-Most of the running was probably around 4500lb, I haven't done any math to estimate more closely. Gets around 3.6mpg in flat water that way full of gas, then trends up to 4.0-4.2 when light. This is at 18-25mph or so, not too sensitive in that range. Offshore at 12-14mph it gets more like 3.0-3.2mpg.

-It is really unbearable above about 14mph into any quartering head sea. Of any size from 6" to 2', especially if it is a closely spaced chop. The full hull form just slaps like crazy, and my mechanical sympathy made me slow down. Planning for a trim-tab update, maybe over winter. Some water that I have to go 15mph in I could go 90mph over in our tunnel boat. I'm adjusting to just driving slower.

-It runs really well in a following sea. We went across Lake O with TS Emily chasing us, 2-2.5' chop on a ~12' period, just cruised over the backs of them at 22mph
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-There is a resonance between 3800-4000rpm. I haven't chased down what it is, I can barely feel it on the main cabin bulkhead. Maybe its a helmholz deal with cabin volume, as it is much quieter with your head up in the v-berth area. Need earplugs in that range, but its easy to throttle up or down a little and avoid it. If I find something moving I can add a stiffener or three.

-Fantastic handling coming into a rough Jupiter inlet on an outgoing tide and SE wind, which can make for sketchy conditions. More than enough power, and between the bow form and the keel it does not want to broach. Buried the bow right up to the sprit into the next 4' standing wave and it just chugs along. So there is a pay-off for the chop slapping.

-Made a nice platform to cruise for a few days with my dad, even in late July. Fall cruising in FL is where its at! With the windows open its pretty comfortable underway, a little hot at night until about 2AM.
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-We even slept 4 adults on it one night, camping over our lobster mini-season honey hole. Good thing we did as boats were cruising up to it starting around 3AM. Two in the v-berth, one in the companionway, one fell asleep fishing on the transom !!! I may make the port side convertible into another bunk.
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-Cruising past East Cape
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-I'm getting a little better around the docks, but it just doesn't want to turn (particularly up-wind). I've started using two big round balls as fenders, they work great. The regular cylinder ones like to tuck into the flare under the rubrail.

-A few more pics here http://mattgent.com/river-rovers-2-sout ... avigation/

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:26 am
by Browndog
Looks great, sounds like a fun time with family. Glad to see this boat being used and enjoyed. Congratulations.

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:00 am
by jacquesmm
Very nice cruise and good report on the boat behavior, thank you.
Yes, it is a real change to have to cruise at trawler speed in some cases at look but how much fuel you save.

Next time, stop by at my dock in Vero Beach: you passed within 1/4 mile!

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:23 pm
by glossieblack
Your boat is a beauty! I just love boats like topwater's, blueflood's and yours. And thanks for the comprehensive performance report. :D

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:44 pm
by Jeff
Matt, let us know when you are coming our way again, Vero, Fort Pierce or Stuart, would love to link up and meet you!!! Beautiful boat!! Jeff

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:00 pm
by Matt Gent
Thanks guys, it is a fun rig. Lucky to have gotten it as-is, as much as I want to build something! May build a paddleboard as a tender. Frankly I feel a little guilty about how much time was spent building it for me to enjoy.

Jacques, didn't make it past Vero on this trip, just went south from PSL. But I've gone past there before, spent an overnighter in Sebastian to watch a band at Hiram's. I'll do it again for sure, will check-in.

Jeff I'm in the water around Stuart about every other weekend, will do the northern weekend trips more often when it starts to cool.

I forgot to mention that I dropped the engine two holes, it cavitates much less often now. I think its happy just where it is. Same prop, no other changes to setup.

New performance data with the fuel consumption. Its a bit slower than last time (heavier), this is in fresh water and may have been against a 1-2kt current, didn't check. Also I put the large cooler and a spare battery (to power dad's CPAP!) up in the v-berth to keep the nose down into chop.

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I was really hoping for a cruise of around 5mpg at barely planing speeds ~18mph, but it would have to be really light for that to happen. I'll bring an extra tank on deck for longer trips (Tortugas, Abacos).

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:34 am
by Jeff
Matt, give me a few days notice the next time you are in the Stuart area. You can reach me on my mobile at: 772.631.4665 /Shop 772.770.9693 or just email me at: jeff@e-boat.net. I look forward to meeting you. Jeff

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:57 am
by terrulian
I just found this thread from the discussion of doing the Great Loop. Now we're talking! That's the boat I'd want for that trip. :D
Do you also have paper charts aboard?

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:39 pm
by TomW1
Matt Happy New Year. I still believe you would benefit from a 4 blade prop on that big boat. The Stilleto is a very good prop but the proper 4 blade will help with some of the handling problems you had documented earlier. It will also help in the GPH in the mid-range. You have had enough time with the Stilleto to know where you want to improve your performance. So let me know and I can work with you to help you increase the performance. I saw a couple of areas in the former posts that I know a 4 blade can help and we can start with them. First it will reduce the slip as it grabs more water, and should make docking easier for the same reason. Since it grabs more water it makes mid-cruise mph more efficient. Well take care guy and keep us up to date.

Tom

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:45 pm
by Matt Gent
Tony - generally I don't have paper charts. Between the GPS, tablet, phone, handheld GPS, I have redundancy and normally I boat where I know where I am. Though I did get some charts for Christmas, for the Marquesas/Tortugas, and for the Bahamas. I'm really liking Navionics on the tablet with the external GPS antenna.

Which leads to....the good part. Took a trip last week to the Dry Tortugas & Fort Jefferson. Trailered to Key West, put in at the City Marina. One night on the boat at KW, then morning left heading West. About 4 hours / 70 miles later we arrived at the fort. Two nights at the fort, snorkeling, exploring, paddling around. Beautiful water, with only a few people around (except when the ferry is at the dock). Tons of life around the fort, on the reefs & wrecks. We paddled onto a flat to watch the stars come out, were surrounded by bonefish tailing. I saw the biggest lobster I've ever seen in the wild, just walking about...maybe 6lb?

We had ~1ft following seas on the way there, basically perfect. Cruised at around 20mph. 2-4 closely spaced wind chop on the way back, I've adjusted my expectations with the boat and we just set it at 3000 / 9-10mph until the wind cycled around and we could roll over the beam seas. Then smoother once we got behind the Marquesas.

As it is set up the boat is great for 3-4 day camp cruising trips for two. I kept the porta-potty in the back deck, and we used the garden sprayer for washing. But by the end, most everything is covered in salt spray and its time for a real shower. Longer-term cruising would take some more infrastructure. I'm also looking at more hard-core free-dive trips for 4 guys, need to make some more sleeping arrangements.

I removed the mast, and put on a new antenna and anchor light, which made room for transporting paddle boards on the roof. Excellent addition for exploring.

Pics, more at http://mattgent.com/tortugas-march-2018/ :
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Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:50 pm
by Matt Gent
And....the bad part.

Fuel economy was mediocre on the way there, and terrible on the way back. I have had a slow leak from the deck scuppers into the small rear boxes, but hadn't done anything about it. Was just a few gallons, and the boxes were sealed & glassed all around. Or so I thought.

Spent a lot of the trip like this, manually-bilging the deck and the rear boxes:
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Planing speed was somewhere up around 23-24 mph, and engine rpm was up around 1000 vs normal. It made the ride back more of a chore, on top of the chaotic choppy sea state.

I just weighed the boat and its about 900lb heavier than when I weighed it a year ago. Best guess is that the boxes aren't well-sealed, and water has worked forward under the cockpit sole. Those cavities are supposed to be sealed & foamed, so I have a not so fun task ahead.

I don't have plans for the build, nor build pics. I can deduce where the stringers are from the cabin and the transom area. Will start with some exploratory holes and figure out what to do from there. More info & pics as I dig into it.

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:37 pm
by Matt Gent
Got out the hole saw and went to town. 5 holes in the aft deck compartments, then moved to three forward.

All but the port aft hole had water full to within an inch or so of the bottom of the sole. The outer compartments are mostly foam-filled; the intermediate ones were about 70% full, the center one had none. The three compartments forward had no foam and were also full.

I suspect it goes farther forward, but things get tougher there with the fuel tank boxes.

Can someone tell me how far forward the next bulkhead is? There is the transom, then the main bulkhead about 14" fwd, then one that runs up the gunnels about 32.5" fwd of that. I don't know where the next one is. I should probably pick up a set of plans.

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Sawdust on the surface of the water
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Video but it didn't host the way I expected, and kinda big. Pardon the dog barking!
http://mattgent.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... AF431A.mov

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:17 pm
by jacquesmm
There should not be any water there.
Is it fresh or salt water? Rain or sea?
From there you can back track but something is not sealed.
If it is rain, check your deck seams. If it is seawater, plug all drains, dry and unplug one at a time.

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:27 pm
by Matt Gent
Sea water. There was a drip leak from the scupper hose, from there it came over the bulkheads forward is my best guess. So the deck isn't very well sealed. I can see the glass and fillets from the bottom up all sides of the boxes. Deck not well-bed, all-around apparently, there are no limber holes between compartments.

There are some drain holes through the cleats between the three cavities at the transom, so those could cross-talk. I'm not certain if there are similar holes through the cleats for the rest, though it would make sense how the water got everywhere.

The boat has no drains other than the two cockpit scuppers.

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:22 am
by TomTom
Matt - so sorry to see that; the frames will be generally be in line under the sole where the frames are above the sole; unless the builder did something odd.

I think you are prolonging the inevitable - I would get a circular saw out and set the cut depth to the thickness off the plywood and the cut out that entire back deck as neatly as possible; if you do it well you can even reuse it.

You should be able to pry it off the frames and cleats (don't ask me how I know this). You have already investigated too far to turn a blind eye now.

If the boat is 900 pounds heavier than it was before thats at least 400 lts of water (20 buckets) you have in there. You need a big enough inspection area to understand how that is happening and how it is moving between compartments.

I had a similar thing with my OD 18 - I could not believe how the water would wick under one stringer to the next; I ended up making limber holes between all the compartments that all led to the bilge. I seal my big inspection hatch with silicon and I bolt it down against some T nuts I installed in some cleats around the edges. Every so often I can pull it up and have a look at what is happening. Not an ideal soln - but I couldnt face redoing all the stringers and frames and the boat doesnt venture too far offshore.

The water was initially seeping in where a crack had opened up between the front locker bulkhead and the sole- almost impossible to see. I found it by using soap sudson the deck and then putting a compressor nozzle into a small hole that I drilled through the sole. (Maybe thats why my sole came off so easily!!). Make sure you don't over pressure it!

Basically, it sucks - properly sucks - but the sooner you get on with cutting that sole out, the sooner a clear plan will come to u!!

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:26 am
by TomTom
Maybe this will give you some ideas...

https://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62301

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:08 am
by Matt Gent
Thanks for the info & link Tom. Looks like similar situation.

I will definitely be putting limber holes between all the cavities, and I'm deciding how much foam to go after and remove. May put an alternate flotation solution in there.

My first thought was to cut large panels out of the floor, leaving 2-3" around each of the frames. That was under the assumption that even a partially glued down floor would be destroyed trying to pull it up in one chunk. I'd need to make enough panels to drill to each of the cavities.

I'm really hoping it doesn't run forward of the large bulkhead at the back of the cabin. Even the forward portions of the cockpit sole are difficult as they are under the fuel tank boxes.

The only potential source of sea water intrusion in this boat is the scuppers. It has no hatches or access ports, no other through-hulls, high sides with lips. The floor is glassed / tabbed down all around. All the wiring / plumbing runs up in the gunnels, there aren't any tubes down under the sole. There are access ports on top of the fuel tank boxes, but they don't tie down below the floor. Those boxes probably need limber holes to the deck. It does have one hole on the bow deck for the anchor line, but that drains right overboard and doesn't hold water.

Also considering what to do with the scuppers, I may glass in a tube or box that completely separates them from the in-transom cavities. And I'm going to want the capability to plug them off.

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:41 pm
by TomTom
Matt - really sorry - I know it is a gut wrenching feeling; there will be lots of guys on this forum that probably have and can make a boat where the sole is absolutely water tight - but I really think waters amazing ability to find a tiny gap is understated! I mean a 100 foot redwood tree gets water to its top leaves by nothing more than capillary action!!

Don’t be surprised if somewhere you find the tiniest crack you didn’t even see is the culprit.

I have thought about pouring my bouyancy foam in plastic bin liners set between the frames... and then having limber holes in each compartment to get any water that might by bad luck get in there drain towards a central bilge/ inspection area. This solves the problem of keeping the boat self bailing in the event of a catastrophe - and yet it would allow you to drain the hull.

I have read that many commercial boat manufactures some of do a similar thing - as it is so hard to totally seal the boat!! This subject is a hot-potato - so opinions will vary wildly!

I will watch with interest for an better solns that you come up with.

Once again - sorry!!

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:16 am
by topwater
This is how i did the scuppers on my NV 23
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Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:11 am
by jacquesmm
My reply disappeared but here it is in a nutshell.
I agree that it almost certainly the scuppers if there was some PVC there. Even with epoxy, it is difficult to have a good bond between PVC and the glass. The PVC should be used as a mold, completely covered.
Some small gaps and leaks are difficult to see.

Repairs: once the leak is identified, if it is only in the rear compartment, it may not be necessary to open everything and remove the foam.
The waterline is only a few inches below the sole and water may have filled the other compartments flowing over the top of the frames.
Holes like you show may be sufficient to empty and then dry all those compartments. The water did not stay long in there. The foam is probably intact.

Let's find the leak first.

About the frames: they are under the upper frames.

About leaving a 2 to 3" offset around the compartments: IF you have to or want to open the whole thing, I like that idea.

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:58 am
by Matt Gent
Topwater - I like the permanent fiberglass tube option and that is a likely solution for me, or some variant of that.

Oval / racetrack shape makes sense for drainage, but makes it more difficult to plug. For cocktail nights when I might have 5-6 people sitting around the cockpit, I'd prefer to have a dry floor. Fabricating an effective plug for that would be tricky.

Does anyone have experience with a transom sock / elephant trunk scupper setup? It looks salty and simple. Seems to be most often associated with RIBs, maybe also lifeboats. This would also work best with a round exit through the transom rather than oval.

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The boat takes on so little water, the cockpit drains are really only there for rain on the trailer or at anchorage.

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:15 pm
by TomW1
Matt I would not worry to much about it. The PPI is 600lbs and if you have 6 people they would all have to weigh 200 lbs to reach the bottom of the scuppers. Jacques has stated before that the waterline is 2-3 inches below the scuppers for this boat so 12-1800lbs . Check with him. Make sure you have flaps like these from Hamilton Marine. https://shop.hamiltonmarine.com/inet/st ... D=scuppers The bigger the better. Peter used a large size with his CX25. They will keep the water out when backing or in a following sea. The large size will quickly drain the cockpit through the oval tubes.

I have seen several builders of bigger boats use the tube and scupper system. An NV23 in Bermuda, Topwaters, a DE25 in Washington for 3. Just be sure to rough up any where you are going to attach fiberglass to pvc.

Tom

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:36 pm
by Matt Gent
I’ve been using the boat for a year. Four people in back, all well under 200lb, get the deck wet. It doesn’t trim level in that condition. I have the perko flaps.

Around Christmas near Hobe Sound we had a spectacular bioluminescent plankton show right in the cockpit - actually made for one of my most memorable boating experiences.

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:18 pm
by BB Sig
Makes me wonder if you had water under the sole back then...

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:23 pm
by TomW1
Matt definitely you have a problem. If you have water on the deck with 4 people something is wrong. I can have 4 people in my OD18 with 900 lbs. and not have water on the deck. I think this has to do with the water below the deck you need to dry it out so you are floating at normal water line.

Tom

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:24 pm
by fishgitr
I bet if you ask Jeff, you could probably get a set of plans so that it shows where all bulk heads and stringers are. If there isn’t foam in there, it should be simple to get in there with a circular saw. Cut between bulkhead and stringers, mark each piece of plywood and you can reuse them. Then you won’t have to worry about prying plywood from the glue cleats.

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:39 pm
by TomTom
I think what would worry me more is not how did the Water get in in the first place - if it is through the scuppers then you have that answer already....

(I know that I have always struggled to get pvc to glue to - West’s website recommends light heating of some pvcs with a blow torch to get better adhesion - but I think Fiberglass scuppers a safer bet) ....

But ... my biggest question would be how did the water migrate between so many compartments? If it is seeping over between the sole and the cleats on top of the frames/ stringers, then surely this needs to be fixed too and that won’t happen if you don’t get the old sole off there first.

Or are u planning to run a fillet around each one?

Can you get the boat tilted up and see if Water moves from one compartment to the next and how?

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:45 am
by TomW1
I agree with TomTom stop the water from getting under the sole. You probably have way more than 50 gallons under the sole which is equal to 500lbs. and is causing a down stern form and why you get water on the sole with only 4 guys. Get the water out from under the sole. Every gallon under the sole is nearly 10 lbs. I would take up your sole and clean up what is underneath it and get all the water out of there. Put in new scuppers for the deck drainage that are of the proper size for a DE25.

Tom

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:50 am
by topwater
And i thought i was the only vampire up this late :!:

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:55 am
by TomW1
topwater wrote: Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:50 am And i thought i was the only vampire up this late :!:
:lol: :lol:

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:05 pm
by Matt Gent
I want to run fiberglass tubes from the transom through the bulkhead, similar to what topwater shows above. There are already 2" ID holes in the boat, so a 2" OD round tube would be straightforward, and easily pluggable. Then I can glue and glass it in place, ensuring it is robust and leak proof.

Anyone have a good source of fiberglass tube? Would save me a few hours of work and a few days of calendar time vs. making one, and with better quality control.

I see this on Grainger: https://www.grainger.com/category/fiber ... 1dZ1z0o03i

1/4" wall is heavier than I need for this, but I won't be picky as that seems to be a standard.

Here is the setup that was there. Nylon fittings with corrugated hose. Not sure if the leak was through the hose, at the hose clamp, or in the bedding of the fitting. In any case it is all going away.

Image

Image

Image

Between each of the boxes laterally (but not longitudinally) were these PVC pipes, I guess added for ventilation. This helped the water migrate once the boxes were full.
Image

For flotation, I'm going to remove as much foam as I can get to. Never was a fan of it in the first place, and if the cavity fill isn't 100% then its asking for trouble. Replacing that will be polyethylene balls...readily available in bulk for your kid's ball pit. Water-tight, light weight, and take up a good amount of volume. A theoretical fill gives about 74% displacement; with the edge effects of the cavities I have it will be around 60%. This lets air and water flow through, and drain through the limber holes to the back bilge. Cost is a little more than the BBC house foam and a little less than the name brands, on a $/displaced volume basis. I was tempted to go without altogether, as the boat is wood and foam anyways. I'll end up net a couple hundred pounds more buoyant than how I bought it.

Some boat manufacturers do this in production. This is from Tideman in Holland:
Image

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:37 pm
by Matt Gent
A little cheaper and raw green polyester at mcmaster: https://www.mcmaster.com/#8535k73/=1cfxrg0

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:44 am
by TomTom
I still don’t understand how Water could get under the sole? Surely the scupper drain pipe is above the sole, so how is it getting in under there?

I can now understand though that you have found those “vent pipes” how it has migrated all round the place.

I guess this raises the rather sticky question of whether one can really build a boat in the 100% knowledge that Water will never get into the foam filled compartments?

Or whether as you are proposing you have some sort of means of draining the compartments whilst using some method (plastic balls in your case) to maintain bouyancy?

Out of interest do you think that sealing the compartments without balls would run the risk of there being enough air to expand and contract and delaminate the sole from the stringers?

Otherwise you could just seal her up with an inspection hatch per compartment and no foam.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:06 pm
by Matt Gent
The water leaked from the scupper pipes into the small bilge areas in the back. Filled those up, then leaked over the bulkheads and under the sole. It must not have 100% glue surface area. I can see how that would be difficult to do, laying most of a 4x8 sheet of ply down at one time, blind.

In any case it is fixed. I glassed in 2" fiberglass tubes. Lots of mixed glue around, then filleted and taped from the inside. Left the tube proud by ~1.5" or so on the back side in case I ever wanted to try the elephant trunk thing.

Image

There are ~2400 ball pit balls filling the void under the sole. That was nearly enough to fill every cavity I opened, could have maybe gotten another 100 in. In total a little over 500lb of buoyancy. Hope I never need it, but at minimum if water gets under again only so much can fit. Even got some help from my girlfriend to glue it back together.

Image

Image

Image

I haven't re-weighed the boat but the performance is back where it should be, ~3.5-3.8mpg in the mid-20s mph loaded for a sandbar trip. There is no water in all the cavities I accessed. There are a couple more which remain un-limbered to the rest. Those sit under the gas tank, couldn't get to them without more surgery.

I still need to find the right plugs. Water comes in when I stand in the corner, particularly if loaded down for cruising. Or if anchored in a wind against current situation, the current pushes water through the scuppers and the deck stays wet. I tried some tapered plugs that advertised for 1.5" max opening but they were too small, slid right in.

In other news the deck right at the bow has started separating from the hull. The deck is still bonded to the bowsprit, which itself needs refinishing and a new roller or fairlead. The crack goes to both sides of the V, back about 6 inches. Next project...

Image

Image

Also the dithering at anchor was solved by fixing a drift sock to the anchor rode right near the waterline. The boat still goes back and forth, but does so much more slowly. The accelerations are not noticeable when lying in the berth.

Image

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:33 pm
by Matt Gent
In other news I was rushing to get the floor & scuppers back together in order to make a Bahamas trip in the calm of summer. Last weekend we did West Palm to West End, then up to Grand / Double-Breasted. Stayed in the boat on the hook at Double-Breasted for three nights, then came back to Florida.

Totally flat on the way over, loaded with fuel, supplies, and coolers we ran ~3.0mpg at ~24mph. Pond-like conditions in the gulf stream, we jumped in and swam around for a while. Total travel time around 7 hours for the ~120 miles including check-in.

Contracted what I think was a case of conch poisoning from a salad made on the dock at West End. Lesson learned about eating suspect food when you're going to be trapped on a boat for a few days. Put a damper on activities but we still got in some paddle boarding and snorkeling on the amazing reef to the north side of the bank.

Coming home was more of a challenge. Heading straight into a SW wind, there was a building chop on the bank. We ran 12-14mph straight into it. Started at about 18", building to over 2 with occasional 3 by the time we made it to the Florida Straights. I have to continually remind myself that it looks like a lobster boat but rides like a skiff. Could have used trim tabs to keep the nose down, when it would start to pound (hard!) we just backed off 1-2mph.

Things were bigger in the Gulf Stream, and building. Storms over the beach towns added to the wind. Within about 15 miles of shore we were down to 5-6mph heading straight into 2.5' head seas and pounding hard. I headed off to go into Jupiter rather than West Palm, and the angle difference made the ride more bearable. Within 8 miles of Jupiter a huge lightning storm was brewing, and generating enough wind that it was now down-sea heading south to West Palm so we changed course back. Running down-sea the boat is a champ...the features which hurt heading up are now a huge benefit. The boat really does not want to broach, even stuffing the nose right up to the bowsprit. We were at 15-20mph trying to out-run the storm, and barreling right into the backs of 3'+ closely spaced peaky wind driven waves as it was getting dark. Huge sprays over the bow, lit up by the nav lights. For the last half-hour or so I could only read the water during the lightning strikes. Very thankful for the pilot house, would not have wanted to do that in an open boat. Trip home was nearly 12 hours with about an hour of snorkeling to break it up.

https://youtu.be/ZoSaXRps5pg

Total trip around 250 miles over 4 days, 3 nights. The boat makes a great weekender for a couple, we are getting better with managing stuff in bags and bins to keep space open. It is comfortable in most conditions, but really need to slow down for head or head quartering seas. Averaged right around 3.0mpg or just under for the trip. Would have been better if it was calm for the way home. I'd feel more secure on longer remote trips like this with a kicker - may look into a bracket for one. And maybe rent a sat phone. We do carry a PLB.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:45 pm
by OrangeQuest
Sure is a good looking boat and I like the updates on the trips in it.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:37 am
by Matt Gent
Pics are fixed.

I need to replace the bow roller when I refinish the bowsprit. The thin edges of the formed stainless sheet catch the anchor rode and make it a pain to pull it in. I don't need a roller at all. Anyone have a link to a fairlead with some nice flared sides and bottom, that will allow me to pull in the anchor from high angles?

Also upgrading to a Mantus, this Delta has pulled one too many times. We were drifting at 1.5mph with the anchor out while snorkeling the reef.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:51 am
by jacquesmm
Mantus or Rocna is the way to go. I have a Mantus Boss, one of the best anchors I ever had.
The way you use your boat, pay attention to the anchor cleats: bolted through an L profile which should be bolted to the first bulkhead. That way it pulls on the framing. We don't want the cleat to pull the deck up.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:56 pm
by Matt Gent
The boat doesn't have anchor cleats, it is tied off on the Samson post. I'll have to stick my head in and check but I presume it runs down to the bottom of the anchor locker and is welded and/or glassed to the bulkhead.

The Mantus youtube videos are certainly impressive. Mine has arrived but I have not yet assembled it. What I've found with the Delta is I need to ensure the entire chain (I believe 20' worth) is laying on the bottom, regardless of the calculated scope. 30' of total rode out in 4' of water wasn't enough when the winds pick up overnight.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:43 pm
by TomW1
Outstanding report Matt. Loved the pics. Looks like your starting to get some great use out of that boat. Enjoy.

Tom

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:15 am
by topwater
When i did my fore deck i installed a 2" by 8" king plank between the bow and bulkhead A with a cutout around the
samson post all epoxied in. Then installed deck on top . I don't have a pic of the king plank .
Image
You can see the thickness here where the winch was installed.
Image
This is all threw bolted, different anchor though.
Image
The only other suggestion would be to take the pressure off the bow roller after the anchor is set and tie off direct
to the samson post.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:43 am
by jacquesmm
Correct: you don't go on anchor on the windlass or on the pulpit. Tie up to the Samson post with a bridle or a snubber through fairleads.
I don't show the fairleads on my designs but they should be there for those who cruise.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:53 am
by Matt Gent
I was thinking a single fairlead through the pulpit. I'll need to look into bridle or snubber setups - seen them but never rigged one myself.

Some Bahamas pics. Double-Breasted is a beautiful place, and the offshore reef is spectacular.

Image

Our neighbors:
Image

Image

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:36 am
by Jeff
Matt, thank you for these photos as well as the ones you emailed to Reid!! I agree, the Bahamas are hard to beat!! Jeff

Re: DE25 Owner thread

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:15 am
by Capt UB
Matt Gent wrote: Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:11 pm Trailer tie downs

image11 (Medium).JPG

I'll address the maintenance and safety stuff first. I don't like these tie-downs, the trailer really is too short for the boat so there is no structure aft of the transom. At least the bunks go that far back, but the trailer is made for an 18-21' boat.

Not sure what I'll do here, I don't like the "seatbelt" style of strap over the gunnels due to wear.
Matt Gent,

What did you do about the trailer?

Bob.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:47 pm
by Matt Gent
Nothing, yet. Need to soon, but its a pretty big cost. Problem is with the low deadrise the boat will have to sit fairly high to get over the fenders unless I go with the little 13" tires again. Starting to quote a custom single 6000lb axle, on 16" tires.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:07 am
by topwater
They have to raise them up above the fenders to clear . I think i have 12" bunks and i had to make and modify
my front bunks for the bow . I hauled my boat all the way from Illinois to Florida with no problems .
Image

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:36 pm
by Matt Gent
Thanks for that pic. I really prefer the boat to sit low, launching is much easier on crappy ramps. And the higher the boat sits, the longer the trailer needs to be. But the beam at the chine makes getting between fenders nearly impossible. The EZ Loader model I have is the only one I've found that will do it, with a really wide axle on 13" tires. But its waaay to short. I'd also like the trailer frame to extend to the transom for easier tie-down and better transom support. On a previous boat I put eye bolts through the big cypress bunks like you have and strapped to that. 15 or 16" tires will raise the boat even further, making launching tough. Many ramps here don't have enough slope for the boat to float off.

How do you like the removable side curtains? The house on my boat is great for cruising, but I'd like it more open for day trips. Was thinking about cutting out the entire back wall and making a large curtain to close that off. When I have guests, they sit out in the cockpit and I'm stuck up front driving. Pop-out side windows would be good too.

I also made a rear cockpit shade out of a beach canopy from Amazon, will get some pics and post that next time I put it up. Right around $100, sets up in 2 minutes.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:45 pm
by Fuzz
Man you must be dealing with some really shallow ramps where you launch.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:02 am
by Matt Gent
I've probably put in at 12 different ramp locations. The trailer is so short, the bowsprit is nearly over the hitch. Made for an 18-21' boat. I have a new truck and don't want to get salt water on it, so I back until the tires are at water's edge.

I generally have to use a lot of power in reverse to creep it off the trailer. On a fairly steep ramp I can push from the bow, and it takes a big effort to budge it back. And it sits super low on this trailer. In Key West loaded for a Tortugas trip, I didn't think I'd get it off the trailer!

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:39 am
by Fuzz
I am pretty sure you trailer has bunks. If so what about replacing the carpet with strips of starboard. I have never used it myself but it was recommended to me by a very experienced member here.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:07 am
by topwater
Get a trailer with a longer tongue . I back in until my rear tires are in the water and can float right off.
I use to launch my bass boat at a lot of unimproved and shallow ramps so i put Glide Sticks on the bunks.
Very slick and you want to make sure you have bow hook on when backing in or pulling out or you will
leave your boat sitting on the pavement :doh: As far as the side and rear curtains I like them , but i
just do day trips so i take them off when in use. I use them mostly to keep the boat dry when sitting on the
lift .

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:15 pm
by Tom S.
Hey Matt any updates, how is the boat running?
Dose she sit in the water any differently, and are you still thinking about trim tabs ?

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:22 pm
by fallguy1000
Matt Gent wrote: Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:02 am I've probably put in at 12 different ramp locations. The trailer is so short, the bowsprit is nearly over the hitch. Made for an 18-21' boat. I have a new truck and don't want to get salt water on it, so I back until the tires are at water's edge.

I generally have to use a lot of power in reverse to creep it off the trailer. On a fairly steep ramp I can push from the bow, and it takes a big effort to budge it back. And it sits super low on this trailer. In Key West loaded for a Tortugas trip, I didn't think I'd get it off the trailer!
Extend the reach and when you do make surenitnis thicker than the current thickness (metal).

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:50 pm
by cape man
Love my star board bunks!

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:27 pm
by Matt Gent
I'll make a longer update with pictures when I get some time. We just got back from the Keys & Bahamas, 7 days on the boat.

-Boat rides happier when loaded down heavy for a trip, with lots of weight forward (cooler, kicker, drink storage, tools, dive gear). Cruise mpg down to ~3.0 @ 18-25mph / 3800-4500rpm, but much more comfortable
-Still want trim tabs
-Now my girlfriend wants A/C and I'm not sure I disagree
-I added forward bunks to replace the bow roller, now it has 3 sets of bunks. At first they were bare PT and the boat wouldn't get off the trailer. Then I put on some plastic bunk pads and now it almost slides off too easy. Also have an entire Kodiak system to install on the trailer which includes an actuator at least a foot longer than the one I have now.
-Lots of little projects have been done: added a removable rear canopy, made a kicker mount bracket https://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64080 , modified the v-berth to stow the kicker (suzuki df6 15"), made a hammock stand for the cockpit, rebuilt the forward hatch (no more plexiglass, no more leaks), made an adjustable stop for the fwd hatch, added more USB ports, added a cockpit light, picked up some roof-racks for mounting the paddle boards
-We also spent ~5 days on the boat last Thanksgiving, cruising coastal GA. It was cold & rainy and we had a great trip.
-Mantus anchor is fantastic, relegated the plow to 2nd / transom anchor. Drift sock tied off the anchor rode at the waterline damps the dithering significantly and makes it livable at night.

There are always more projects to do:
-rebuild bowsprit, replace the roller with some kind of flared fairlead
-entire boat needs paint
-finish refurbishing trailer
-trim tabs
-counter-top organizer
-cleats & planks for an extra crew bunk in the main cabin
-temporary ac & generator? not sure on this
-I'm considering blowing out the back wall of the main cabin and replacing with roll-down canvas. Will make a better day boat but not as good camping in inclement weather.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:06 pm
by Jeff
Good trip Matt but I am sure it was hot down there!!! Jeff

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:27 am
by cracked_ribs
I just wanted to say that I really get a lot out of this thread. I really like the factual, no-BS descriptions of the good and the bad. You really don't pull punches and you give good, clear descriptions of everything that happens. I think considering it's not a build thread it's just jammed full of useful info and I appreciate that you keep adding to it.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:45 pm
by fallguy1000
before you go with the a/c, if there is any way to windscoop; you ought to try it

I don't live in Georgia, so I don't have more

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:04 am
by Fuzz
Have you tried your kicker yet? If so how does it do?

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:03 am
by OrangeQuest
I just wanted to say that I really get a lot out of this thread. I really like the factual, no-BS descriptions of the good and the bad. You really don't pull punches and you give good, clear descriptions of everything that happens. I think considering it's not a build thread it's just jammed full of useful info and I appreciate that you keep adding to it.
100% agree, very good updates on a well made boat.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:51 pm
by Matt Gent
Thanks for the feedback guys.

The front hatch is a pretty effective wind scoop - its big. I saw a nice scoop on a sailboat last trip, about 4'x3' and built like a tent. Might help a bit, but the problem is the bugs. If we anchor out where there is good wind and far from bugs, the boat rocks a lot. If we tuck into a protected cove, there isn't as much wind, and when we open up the bugs come in around dusk. Ideally we'd be in the anchorage and be able to close everything up for an hour or two when the bugs are out.

I added some details on the kicker in the thread linked above. Works fine in calm water, haven't tried it in adverse conditions yet.

This trip we planned to go to the Abacos for 7-8 days in late June. We were about 35 miles out of St Lucie inlet when the engine started hesitating. At first just a minor miss, then it bogged pretty hard a few times. Never quit, but we were headed to a fairly unpopulated area with few mechanics or parts available so we turned back. Had to run right into FL afternoon storms behind us after the Gulf Stream had been pond-flat. Of course the engine ran fine the entire ride back, so we headed south to the Keys instead. At least there was help available.

Few days in Elliot Key, Pennekamp, and Tavernier paddle-boarding and diving, boat ran great the whole time. So we left for two nights in Bimini and then a travel day back home to Stuart. Altogether 7 days on the boat with one rest day at a friend's condo in the middle.

Pics:
-Saw an example on THT of using a beach shade kit as a rear canopy. I put in some cupholder / rodholder combo units in the rear gunnels to support these. Goes up and down easy, provides lots of shade, and under $100 as a project. Just can't run planing speeds with it up. May upgrade one day.
Image

Some amazon roof racks take the strap tension off of the roof rails and let us use the paddle board pads we already had. Also here you can see the refinished front-hatch. Filled in the plexi area with scrap coosa, routed the edges, and glassed over the entire outside. No more leaks and now people can sit on it. Its a little darker in the berth area so we now have some battery-powered LED lights.
Image

Put a bolt eye in the corner of the cabin top and made a rear pole support for a hammock
Image

Somewhere in the Keys. Don't trust Navionics after this and one other incident. Lots of detail, but it read 4' deep here. Garmin GPS was more conservative. We floated off in a few hours
Image

So we hung out, had dinner, watched the sunset, and were treated to some bioluminescence on the flat while waiting for the tide
Image

Sunrise off Elliot Key
Image
Gun Cay
Image

Looking for dinner
Image

And preparing it
Image

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:24 am
by OrangeQuest
Great pictures and love the report! Could the engine acting up be stale fuel going through the system? Since it cleared itself up.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:35 am
by Jeff
Nice photos!!! Jeff

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:53 am
by fallguy1000
Matt Gent wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:51 pm Thanks for the feedback guys.

The front hatch is a pretty effective wind scoop - its big. I saw a nice scoop on a sailboat last trip, about 4'x3' and built like a tent. Might help a bit, but the problem is the bugs. If we anchor out where there is good wind and far from bugs, the boat rocks a lot. If we tuck into a protected cove, there isn't as much wind, and when we open up the bugs come in around dusk. Ideally we'd be in the anchorage and be able to close everything up for an hour or two when the bugs are out.

I added some details on the kicker in the thread linked above. Works fine in calm water, haven't tried it in adverse conditions yet.

This trip we planned to go to the Abacos for 7-8 days in late June. We were about 35 miles out of St Lucie inlet when the engine started hesitating. At first just a minor miss, then it bogged pretty hard a few times. Never quit, but we were headed to a fairly unpopulated area with few mechanics or parts available so we turned back. Had to run right into FL afternoon storms behind us after the Gulf Stream had been pond-flat. Of course the engine ran fine the entire ride back, so we headed south to the Keys instead. At least there was help available.

Few days in Elliot Key, Pennekamp, and Tavernier paddle-boarding and diving, boat ran great the whole time. So we left for two nights in Bimini and then a travel day back home to Stuart. Altogether 7 days on the boat with one rest day at a friend's condo in the middle.

Pics:
-Saw an example on THT of using a beach shade kit as a rear canopy. I put in some cupholder / rodholder combo units in the rear gunnels to support these. Goes up and down easy, provides lots of shade, and under $100 as a project. Just can't run planing speeds with it up. May upgrade one day.
Image

Some amazon roof racks take the strap tension off of the roof rails and let us use the paddle board pads we already had. Also here you can see the refinished front-hatch. Filled in the plexi area with scrap coosa, routed the edges, and glassed over the entire outside. No more leaks and now people can sit on it. Its a little darker in the berth area so we now have some battery-powered LED lights.
Image

Put a bolt eye in the corner of the cabin top and made a rear pole support
Image

Somewhere in the Keys. Don't trust Navionics after this and one other incident. Lots of detail, but it read 4' deep here. Garmin GPS was more conservative. We floated off in a few hours
Image

So we hung out, had dinner, watched the sunset, and were treated to some bioluminescence on the flat while waiting for the tide
Image

Sunrise off Elliot Key
Image
Gun Cay
Image

Looking for dinner
Image

And preparing it
Image
You need a screen on the hatch.

But you could also try a small 110 ac unit on a Honda generator.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:43 am
by Matt Gent
Yup were working through how to screen it in while we were smashing mosquitos. Front hatch is easy, the opening window is a little more tricky, plus the aft companionway. And some places have no-see-ums, which will go through standard screening. We have a honda generator and a small AC from an RV, I just don't really want to carry them and adapt the AC to the boat. Plus neither is salt water friendly.

My best guess is debris in the fuel, which is odd. The tanks were nearly empty before the trip, I filled them with gas on the trailer from a car gas station (not marina). And we ran for an hour and a half before it started so it was in the middle of one of the tanks, not beginning or end. Had a fresh Racor in. It cut out intermittently more like a coil or switchbox was failing, sounded to me more like an electrical device rather than fuel starvation but the fact that it ran great for a week after that says fuel.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:57 am
by jacquesmm
For ventilation, I like the Breeze Booster. It is designed for power boats and create s storm in the cabin.
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When the wind dies, Caframo Sirocco fans, they need very little power.

About Navionics: update. The bottom changed a lot after Irma. I ran aground near Soldier Key last year because I had not updated.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:15 pm
by Matt Gent
The wind catcher I saw was very similar to that, thanks for the brand name. Looks like it would fold up small too, will try one. Would much prefer that and screens to the genny and ac. The other issue is that the hatch is most of the way back on the berths, so sleeping feet forward we get some breeze on the head and shoulders, rest of cabin is static.

I run Navionics on an iPad with a recent download, so it should be up to date but I'll check. It was a poor decision to try to run in an un-marked channel, luckily at least it was low tide. And the park rangers never came by for a visit. Microskiff went through right behind us, must have had local knowledge as they did a zig-zag around a shoal and got right through. We were leaving Jones Lagoon (amazing paddling spot!) so not too far south of Soldier. The blinking shrimp/plankton (?) and glowing jellyfish made the unscheduled stop worthwhile!

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:21 pm
by OrangeQuest
Matt Gent wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:43 am Yup were working through how to screen it in while we were smashing mosquitos. Front hatch is easy, the opening window is a little more tricky, plus the aft companionway. And some places have no-see-ums, which will go through standard screening. We have a honda generator and a small AC from an RV, I just don't really want to carry them and adapt the AC to the boat. Plus neither is salt water friendly.

My best guess is debris in the fuel, which is odd. The tanks were nearly empty before the trip, I filled them with gas on the trailer from a car gas station (not marina). And we ran for an hour and a half before it started so it was in the middle of one of the tanks, not beginning or end. Had a fresh Racor in. It cut out intermittently more like a coil or switchbox was failing, sounded to me more like an electrical device rather than fuel starvation but the fact that it ran great for a week after that says fuel.
It still could be electrical. Erratic signal, poor connections and moisture could all be issues. Our bus has had power problems off and on for the last 5 years.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:41 pm
by TomW1
Matt, I love that you are getting your getting so much enjoyment of your boat and keeping us updated on it. Please keep doing so. I love to see the pictures your pictures of where you have gone. It is a seldom member that posts like you do.

Tom

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:05 am
by cape man
Yeah...like a picture of No Excuse on a Carolina lake 8)

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:12 am
by fallguy1000
Did you ever figure out how water got into your fuel Matt?

Could it have been through the air intakes?

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:27 am
by Matt Gent
I'm not sure there ever was water in the fuel. I know that the inspection ports over the (plastic) tanks leak, so water can sit right on top of the senders & valves. Would like to change that arrangement.

Boat has sat mostly dormant for about a year. Took my girlfriend & dad to Flamingo / Everglades for a weekend Feb 2020 with the canoe on the roof to do some exploring & see crocodiles, camped with some fishing buddies. The canoe is really too big to haul that way. The power trim died on that trip, and I've been too busy to fix it with new house projects and rebuilding the pontoon (other thread). When I did try to take the boat out it ran really rough, which a new set of plugs fixed right away. I checked the fuel and it is clean. That engine has a VST tank with a little filter screen which is known for getting clogged up, I'm due for a clean-out and new screen.

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The boat is due for some serious cosmetic TLC. Just about every surface that wasn't glassed is checking, and the paint is flaking off of the primer on the glassed areas. I just have too much going on to strip it down and repaint the whole thing. Will need to tackle it area by area. First is the block for the rigging hose, fixing that before dropping off at the shop for power trim.

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Whatever wood was used for this block and for the bowsprit is splitting and delaminating. I'll replace with ply and glass it over.

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I have repainted the cabin top, about 2 years ago. I used System 3 (same as original build), with its hardener and primer per the instructions. It looks like crap already, not sure what I did wrong.

Of all the things about this boat, the durability of the paint is probably my biggest gripe. It has looked like an old commercial boat for 3 or 4 years.

I'm also going to install trim tabs. The space gets limited back there with the recommended 24" tabs from Bennett, may go with 18. Anyone know how close to a trim tab the transducer can live? Needs to be out of the prop path as well.

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Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:54 am
by fallguy1000
What topcoat are you using?

Florida sure is hard on stuff, but the topcoat is not helping.

What is the hardtop substrate?

I think you have made all arguments for glassing all ply surfaces.

I'd probably put a new ducer on before fighting for space with tabs. That ducer location is not ideal anyway.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:56 am
by fallguy1000
To me, I would question the surface prep. But if I had a paint do that, I'd probably sand it all off and start over with a new system. Sorry.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:40 am
by Matt Gent
System Three Yacht Primer and their WR-LPU topcoat.

When I did the cabin top, I sanded it down to fairing compound with a few patches of the original primer. Wiped with acetone. It is glass over foam. There are also handrails up there that I sanded to bare wood and painted, most of the paint has flaked off.

For the rest of the surfaces I don't know. Was told it was the same S3 paint which is why I bought it. Will probably use Awlcraft to repaint.

The whole boat needs to be blasted or sanded down below the primer, plus glassing over the checked wood, and I just don't have the time.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:42 am
by Matt Gent
For the transducer, it has to move inboard to clear space for the tab. It will end up below the corner of the buoyancy tank on the Armstrong bracket.

Garmin says to mount it out of the prop flowpath, but no value given. Humminbird asks for 15" from the prop, which I cannot fit. Would be about 4" from prop if I fit 24" tabs; 8" if I fit 18" tabs.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:01 am
by fallguy1000
Matt Gent wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:42 am For the transducer, it has to move inboard to clear space for the tab. It will end up below the corner of the buoyancy tank on the Armstrong bracket.

Garmin says to mount it out of the prop flowpath, but no value given. Humminbird asks for 15" from the prop, which I cannot fit. Would be about 4" from prop if I fit 24" tabs; 8" if I fit 18" tabs.
All u can do is try and see if it works before buying a hull mount ducer. The hull mounts are usually much better and can operate at full speed. Yours might kick out at 20mph which sux bigtime. Won't know til u try.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:03 am
by fallguy1000
Whenever someone sells an additive to make their paint better; it makes me say hmmm.

https://www.systemthree.com/products/crosslinker

I had a lot of trouble painting over s3 primer. Still don't know if it was just my dirty shop or what. But the major fisheye areas were on the places where the primer got a bit thinner from sanding and you could see thru it a bit.

I honestly wonder if their primer needs a longer cure time. Like if I sanded through to the bottom and the primer was not cured enough; it reacted with the topcoat. It is a theory; likelt wrong.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:23 am
by cracked_ribs
I would say the number of people I have seen with primer issues on S3 primer is probably equal to all other boat primers combined. I don't know whether it sells so much more that there are just more examples - more people have had issues with McDonalds coffee than with the coffee from my local bakery, but that doesn't prove my bakery makes better coffee - or whether it really is problematic.

But man, I have seen enough issues with S3 primer that I won't touch it.

Granted I have a bunch of products like that which are usually thought of as good, but I won't use them. West epoxy, I won't use, for example, and it's been a mainstay of boatbuilding for decades. So I may be making choices based on my own intuition that are not supported by data, I don't know.

But S3 primer...not a fan.

I also don't leave exposed, un-glassed ply. I don't care that it's supposed to be fine. I have seen too many issues. If it's exposed to the elements, it's getting glass fabric, or else I consider it disposable.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:21 pm
by fallguy1000
cracked_ribs wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:23 am I would say the number of people I have seen with primer issues on S3 primer is probably equal to all other boat primers combined. I don't know whether it sells so much more that there are just more examples - more people have had issues with McDonalds coffee than with the coffee from my local bakery, but that doesn't prove my bakery makes better coffee - or whether it really is problematic.

But man, I have seen enough issues with S3 primer that I won't touch it.

Granted I have a bunch of products like that which are usually thought of as good, but I won't use them. West epoxy, I won't use, for example, and it's been a mainstay of boatbuilding for decades. So I may be making choices based on my own intuition that are not supported by data, I don't know.

But S3 primer...not a fan.

I also don't leave exposed, un-glassed ply. I don't care that it's supposed to be fine. I have seen too many issues. If it's exposed to the elements, it's getting glass fabric, or else I consider it disposable.
What confuses me is water cleanup..

??

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:16 am
by Matt Gent
The boat has zero holes below the waterline, and I'd like to keep it that way. Still almost sunk in the Tortugas. So a thru-hull is out. And shoot through doesn't work with the plywood core.

Transducer works fine where it is. Only real issue I have with it is driving through floating seagrass patches in the Gulf of Mexico, which are everywhere. They get hung up, and I have to reach over and clear it. That will be harder if the transducer is moved more centrally.

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Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:09 am
by fallguy1000
Matt Gent wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:16 am The boat has zero holes below the waterline, and I'd like to keep it that way. Still almost sunk in the Tortugas. So a thru-hull is out. And shoot through doesn't work with the plywood core.

Transducer works fine where it is. Only real issue I have with it is driving through floating seagrass patches in the Gulf of Mexico, which are everywhere. They get hung up, and I have to reach over and clear it. That will be harder if the transducer is moved more centrally.

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So where do you live and fish gom?

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:57 am
by cracked_ribs
Depending on how much work you want to put into the transducer, you could always get down into the bilge and carefully grind away the inside skin and core, fill the missing core with epoxy/milled fibres/fumed silica, glass back over it, and put in a in-hull transducer then.

It's a pain but then you're done with it, forever. I think I'll be putting a spot for an in-hull transducer in my current build, which of course is easier during the build, but if you have space in the bilge, it could be done after the fact. Around here you actually see a fair number of guys who have just bedded a standard transducer in silicone, in their bilge. If the only obstacle is the core, I'd consider it, personally.

After all, by the time you do the cosmetic overhaul, you'll have put so much into that thing, you might as well have it in the exact configuration you want.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:53 pm
by Matt Gent
Yeah I thought of that too. Really don't want another project now, but that is less work than a lot of refinishing. There's room in the bilge pocket near the transom. Need to find a way to get retired.

Tabs are near-term to make longer trips more comfortable.

I live in SE Florida (Atlantic) and travel to SW or Central FL (Gulf) once or twice a year on average.

Edit to add: I don't really fish. I explore, dive/freedive, spear fish, and catch lobster. So fish-finding isn't my priority, but I do like to know when I'm on structure. I like the imaging from the side-scanning transducers. Best I can tell those are all through-hull or transom mount, which I guess makes sense for field of view. I can't find any documentation on spacing of transom mount relative to tabs.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:01 am
by Matt Gent
Pecking away at small jobs when I can. Used some scrap ply from the pontoon console to replace the rigging tube block on the transom. I guess this could have just been screwed into drill/fill/re-drilled epoxy plugs, but I replaced it as it was.

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Couple things I noticed.
-The transom outer glass in this area is super thin! Like maybe one layer of 12oz. The load is a little lower in height, and it has full-height knees up to the deck. But I expected much more.
-The transom to bottom corner has a healthy radius, maybe 3/8-1/2". I guess it was rounded for glassing but never back-filled with thickened epoxy. Probably not the best for a planing boat but this thing is kinda slow. It is going to make a pretty large offset for the trim-tabs.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:43 pm
by fallguy1000
I'd fix the radius. You'll get a pickup in speed.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:24 pm
by TomW1
Matt Gent wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:53 pm I can't find any documentation on spacing of transom mount relative to tabs.
Matt from what I know of the side looking transducers they have a slight angle should not be interfered with by your trimtabs if you move it half way between the trim tab and the motor. I assume you are mounting your trim tabs as far out on the transom as possible. There will always be a dark space beneath the boat with any side scan sonar.

Good luck Tom

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:25 pm
by silentneko
All the side scan sonars I've seen look down at either a narrow angle (60 degrees or so) or a wider angle (45 degrees or so) depending on settings. So they show to the sides underwater, but shouldn't signal to the direct sides of the transducer. I would want the tabs at least 8 inches away if possible. Since you will be using it off plane mostly, just lift your tabs up out of the way.

Side scan is the best for diving applications, since you can clearly define objects (sunk cars, coral heads, artificial reefs...) at slow speeds.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:51 pm
by Matt Gent
Right, that would be my usage. I'd want it to reliably read depth at speed, and scan for structure (in say 10-100' of water) at idle, tabs up.

There's no way I can get 8" spacing with the 24" tabs. It would be more like 3". I can get close to 8" with the 18" tabs. In the end Bennet said if I can't fit the 24" to go with 18", and add drop fins to the sides for improved lift.

My concern is if I go with the big tabs, there's enough turbulence / entrained air with the small spacing that it doesn't reliably read depth at speed. I don't think the tabs would ever be in the way of the viewed swath of the transducer. Not sure if stainless plate could cause any kind of interference.

I'd guess it will be OK but its hard to go back after the fact.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:26 pm
by Cowbro
On the trim tabs, are you looking at the 9" or 12" chord?

Could you get away with a 12"x12"? Their website mentions using the 12" chord tabs for boats with limited transom real estate. They might not be most effective, but given the transducer requirements and other constraints, that might be a good compromise.

Note that i am a complete trim tab newbie, and have been trying to educate myself about them for future projects.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:17 pm
by TomW1
Matt looking at the picture of where you want to mount your tabs move them almost them almost all the way out to the edge of transom, just leave a couple of inches. No reason to leave more, there is plenty of strength there.

Matt look at the Hummingbird units they have down looking for higher speeds and side looking at lower speeds. Helix 9 Chirp Mega Si it is $1500. A larger screen size is much more 15" is $3499. https://www.humminbird.com/fish-finder-product-selector Matt did a little reading of the FAQ's and the side sonar said will read objects in as little as 2' of water 50' feet from the boat. And an area 480' wide up to 150' deep. Speed must be less than 10 mph for the side sonar to work well. Must be mounted on the transom,

Just lock your tabs up when you slow down and you will be fine and keep the sonar unit as far as you can from the motor. The down looking sonar part of the unit will not be affected by where you mount it. You may have to mount it separately that wasn't real clear.

If I were you I would get the 18" with the wings and mount the transducer 1/2 way between the motor and the tabs. You should not have any trouble then. If I were you cut that strake off at least 18"-24" in front of the sonar, so you have more room in placement of it. It will take at most an 1/2 hour with a good sazall and sand it down and another hour to repaint the hull over a day or two. I know more time you don't have but lets do it right and not do a make shift installation.

Well that's my two cents, worth one tomorrow. :D Hope it gives you some ideas.

Tom

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 12:18 am
by Matt Gent
The boat does not have any strakes.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:49 pm
by TomW1
Matt Gent wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 12:18 am The boat does not have any strakes.
What is the wood piece marked by the circle and X?

Tom

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:14 pm
by cracked_ribs
Looks like the skeg to me.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:06 pm
by Matt Gent
Yeah that's the skeg / keel. That was my 30sec PowerPoint attempt at showing the path of the propeller to scale. Coulda made a better effort with that.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Sun May 23, 2021 1:30 pm
by Matt Gent
Trim tab job is done. Installed the 18x12 Bennet Bolt (electric) tabs with the integral controller/switch with indication. On a production boat with a synthetic transom this may have been a 3-4hr job; I've easily got over 20 into this (including the mounting block) with the hole prep. Running the wires was a challenge too as my rigging tubes were full.

After a couple trips I can safely say that every DE and similar hull should have trim tabs. Total game changer for wind chop; we were able to run 22-24 into quartering 1.5-2' across a wide river. Before tabs that was 8-10 with hull slap. Nice day on the Indian River to see the Melbourne air show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhnvpMpyeuE wish we could embed video here.

Bennet may be conservative with their sizing recommendations, these are well more than enough area to move the boat however you want. Maybe the larger tabs are a bit more efficient (same moment effect at lower angle/drag).

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I bought a chunk of 1" G10 (factory-manufactured fiberglass) and glued it on the transom as a transducer block. Then if/when I change, no need for more holes in transom. Found an old pole spear to use as dowel pins, that worked well. Problem is the G10 is so hard, the wood screws for mounting the transducer bracket shear off before driving all the way in. It may need to be tapped for a machine screw.

As part of that job also replaced the block for the rigging tube on the transom. It is now glassed-over meranti ply with epoxy plugs for the screws. Just covered over with some temporary paint, need to paint whole boat at some point. I've found that the cracking/crazing on the paint goes down to the fairing compound level. The entire boat is covered in micro-cracks.

The bowsprit and Samson post are also failing. I don't know what wood was used for these parts, same as the transom block and parts of the front hatch. It didn't last at all. The center plank (of three) on the Samson post was dry rotted about half-way through, while the outer ones were fine. For some reason the center one had a bunch of epoxy filler on it too, maybe it was an uglier piece of wood to start with. Termites? Don't know. The outer ones have a grain like Oak, but I'm no wood expert.

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Kinda stuck on how to fix this. I like the post as part of the character of the boat, but also need to rely on it as I sleep on the boat in remote anchorages. I have very limited access into the anchor locker, where this is bonded to the front of the first bulkhead. I'm looking at cutting it off and bolting on a commercial stainless one, but the remains will be in the way of the backing plate. There is only a small longitudinal from the post to the stem under the 3/8" ply deck. I really don't want to pull the fwd deck to replace the samson post entirely. I think if I fill the middle plank and glass it over I'd have a hard time sleeping. So far just cleaned up surface and chiseled out most of the crap.

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Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Sun May 23, 2021 1:52 pm
by Jaysen
Matt Gent wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 1:30 pm Nice day on the Indian River to see the Melbourne air show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhnvpMpyeuE wish we could embed video here.
You can you just need the use the youtube bbcode AND the short url YouTube publishes for sharing. In this case the code looks like

Code: Select all

[youtube]https://youtu.be/GhnvpMpyeuE[/youtube]
Put that in your post and you get …
https://youtu.be/GhnvpMpyeuE

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Mon May 24, 2021 8:38 am
by fallguy1000
Nice work Matt. I wish I had tt on my fishing skiff.

I can't tell what the wood is either

I have a bronze under chrome sampson post with the chrome coming off. You could have it and get it dechromed it you want it. It was on a 24' '76 Starfire fisherman.

I would make the rubrail wrap by chiseling veneer layers back and wrapping pieces of new veneer starting at the shortest. After chiseling the existing veneers back which will take hours, you can cut to thickness, measure for length and fit the new veneers. You could try african mahogany, but show the guys at a wood store and see what they say. Thin enough and it won't need steam to bend. It looks like ten -12 veneers, so a half inch step for each layer would be 6" or so chisel back on each one. Least all the work is outside, and you develop a lot of strength.

An alternative would be to cut a bevel back into the rubrails, say on a 45 and wrap each piece in a shorter length. That might crack, though.

Still another idea is to make it integral to the metal bowsprit with welded stainless and 5200 the thing in. Fastest, but highest cost. Getting the stainless to wrap well would require you make a jig of the front of the boat. But you can't epoxy the thing then.

To avoid going into and under the deck; you can make a fiberglass top plate like or g10. 3 layers of 1708 is about 0.150", so about 9-10 layers is a half inch. If the deck has only a light crown, you can make the part on a table and bond it to the deck after cutting it. I'd use a bandsaw for the first clean up, then table saw, then chop saw the shape you want. Really hard on tools. Sand it to final shape and epoxy bond it to existing deck and you can sort of do whatever you want for size and backing. If you go the top plate route, do that before jigging the metal as it will be higjer then.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Tue May 25, 2021 1:29 am
by TomW1
Matt could you give us a picture of the cleaned up grain on the side of the post. It will give us a better look than on the edge grain. The other thing you might want to do is take a drill bit, or probe, and see how far the rot has penetrated the post. I hate seeing posts built like that, they should be one solid piece, so your problem would not happen.

Regards, Tom

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:31 pm
by Rziel
Hi Matt
I love the boat think it is a great design. I am thinking of building one from aluminum. What to you think of that idea. Do you think aluminum plate would make the bends. I am thinking 1/4 for bottom 3/16 sides. I know it would add some weight probably not as efficient but perhaps a better ride. I think there is one on YouTube (down east 25 aluminum) with twin 115 outboards. Looks like a nice ride but bare bones. Any thoughts would be great. Thanks rudy

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:11 pm
by Matt Gent
I have no experience with either design or fabrication of boats in aluminum. I would like to build a small alloy boat as an exercise to learn, was thinking about Lillistone's Fleet. But the dance card is full for the moment.

An AL DE25 would be pretty cool. I see no reason to want to go faster than mid-30s mph in one; 150hp should be plenty. And I like to go fast, this just isn't the boat for that. A bare aluminum semi-displacement cruiser (like a poor man's FPB) would be my dream retirement rig.

And you could be sure not to have to repair any more rotten parts. I've got the bow sprit rebuilt, have a stainless bollard for the anchor, with a midnight quality paint job on it (runs, patchy spots, and mosquitos). Heading to the Tortugas in a couple days, will fix the cosmetics when I repaint the boat. Some day...

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:20 pm
by Matt Gent
Found a new job for the old Samson post:
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Rebuilt bowsprit...cosmetically far from perfect. I think structurally sound. It's built from scrap ply I had from earlier projects, 3/8" meranti, and wrapped in 12oz biax. 4 ply layers on deck, 5 on the extension. Needed that thickness to make the hawse pipes work. Wanted big hawse pipes for the anchor shackle to pass through, and to have a healthy radius for pulling in the rode. Boat sails hard to each side under anchor, after I pull in the drift sock. Wrapped the glass down over the rubrail and taped to the stem to close up that delamination.

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The bollard is a $27 piece off of Amazon. Seems impossible to source materials, fabricate, weld, polish, ship, and sell this piece for that price. Crazy world we live in. But of course it was shipped without the listed "extra base plate" as a backer. So I report this to Amazon, who promptly sends me another one...also without the backing plate. For a moment I considered installing the 2nd one upside-down inside the anchor locker as a joke, but it wouldn't fit. So I improvised:

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Next task is to figure out where the remaining bollard parts get installed around my dock in the west lawn as decor.

This weekend was a guys trip to the Dry Tortugas from Key West. My dad rode with me, and two buddies on their boat. Same itinerary as last time, works well: launch late Thursday, overnight at KW, head west for two nights at the fort, then the long trip back on Sunday. Perfect weather, downhill both ways, calm on Saturday. Beautiful place to be:

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^^^Boats rafted together then held on station by the spot-lock on my friend's trolling motor. There is no anchoring in the park (outside of the anchorage) and this spectacular reef had no mooring balls. Super cool capability on those things, we also chummed up some yellowtail.

Cocktail hour
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Good thing we have a cabin as it makes a ton of spray. We cruised between 19-22mph. Mileage wasn't great as we were loaded down on the way there....2.4mpg trended up to 3.3 or so towards the end of the trip. The boat would load up against the back of the wave it ran into, but at least with a little tab we could avoid any slamming. It was small enough on the way home, no tab and trim up so it could run a little more freely. Will post some video soon.

I mounted the transducer way too low and it was constantly picking up sargassum and turtle grass. I need to find a better way to fasten into the G10 block I glued on. Maybe try drill & tap for machine screws.

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I've been neglecting some trailer maintenance and it nearly came to bite me. Bought an entire new brake setup about a year and a half ago, but got busy with selling/buying/moving/renovating house. Heard a ping/rattle on the way home, and was luckily able to see the caliper coming loose from the driver's side mirror. Bracket completely rusted through. Trailer rebuild now on the docket.

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Highly recommend a trip to the fort if you can swing it. Pretty unique place. Amazing stars at night (if you get away from the anchorage). Glow of Havana on the horizon. That is my next bucket destination if/when it opens back up.

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Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:45 am
by fallguy1000
Awesome post Matt. Thanks for sharing.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:58 am
by Jeff
Beautiful place and a really nice trip!!! Jeff

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:00 am
by OrangeQuest
Thank you for the trip! Even if we wasn't there! :lol:

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:02 pm
by cape man
Spent a week at the fort when I was 16 with the Youth Conservation Corps. Have never made it back. It was magical, especially at night. Helped a Park Service researcher tag lobsters and when he learned we were eating surplus C Rations he got reckless while opening the tail from the carapace and broke enough of them for a feast that night.

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:33 pm
by TomW1
Great trip Matt. Thanks for sharing.

Tom

Re: DE25 Ownership Log

Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:14 pm
by Matt Gent
Not much going on with the boat. Since I've moved a couple years ago, the tiki toon is in the water and gets used much more often. Salty has been relegated mostly to camping and other big trips, a few times a year.

I've been wanting to make a logo for it, for stickers and shirts for guests. Marinas and bars around the islands are plastered with stickers from boats.

Took an image of the boat at a gas station on the trailer and traced over in CAD to make this:

Image

Future Salty projects:
-remove carpet, put in foam flooring in cabin
-refurbish or rebuild the fuel tank boxes and transom hatch doors
-needs full repaint
-trailer rebuild
-some form of screening for bugs