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Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:17 am
by narfi
Printed out a "shop copy" of my plans and took them out to the "boat factory".
20170919_215112.jpg
Sanded all the epoxy lumps off the table. (Just so Fuzz can tell me, "I told you so")
20170919_215200.jpg
Plywood Inventory: 10 sheets of 3/8" Okoume and 6 and 2/3s sheets of 1/4" Okoume.

Looking at the nesting and trying to figure out the best way to use the partial sheet I think I had a good idea but would like feedback before actually cutting.

I'll cut the two rear side panels from it which leaves nearly 2x lengthwise 1/2 sheets for cutting rubrails from.
20170919_215309.jpg
20170919_215553.jpg
20170919_215340.jpg

I will cut my molds from OSB. However when it comes time to make the bulkheads I don't see them in the nesting pages. I assume they are from 3/8" ????

Are the motor well sides supposed to be glued to the stringers before assembly?

I don't understand the diagram of the motor well on page D284/5
1. Are there any square corners on the motor well side panels?
2. What is the purpose of the gap/notch cut out of it against the transom?


I'm sure I'll have more questions going forward....

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:30 am
by Fuzz
Well it looks like the boat building virus has a total hold on you. :D Not wasting any time getting the next one started.
If it were me I would have claimed I was slowly water proofing my work table :lol:
Not sure without having plans in front of me but I do not think you glue anything to the stringers until after the flip. Hope someone who has built one will chime in.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:16 am
by TomW1
Hi Narfi. First on the motor well. Screw the panels to the stringers. The motor well side panels set the angle of the transom. Yes there are square corners where it will be attached to the bulkhead in front of the transom. There should be a dimensional diagram of it.

Now be careful of your cutting I count 9 various pieces from 4 sheets of plywood in those nesting diagrams. The only scrap I see is in the upper left piece where the bottom is cut out and leaves you with about 1/3 of a sheet 8' long. Your red circles are just 2 of 6 parts I see on those 2 4 x 8 sheets of plywood on the right. Two of the pieces may be scrap but they are short only about 3' long. You will have to wait and see if they match up with something and get added to the end of the sides maybe.

I am on vacation away from the house so cannot look at the plans but I do read nesting diagrams well. For example the extensions extending past the 4 x 8 sheets come from other parts of the nesting diagrams.

If I can help in any other way let me know.

Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:28 am
by narfi
Those 2 sheets shown on the left are actually 4 mirrored sheets. The two on the right are not. So it looks like 4 sheets but is 6.

The bottom is made up of 4 panels and each side is made of 3, so a total of 10 peices shown in that nesting diagram.

Not sure if I'm making sense or not.....

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:06 am
by Eric1
Alright my Friend! I'm looking forward to watching you and Landon build this one. I enjoyed your canoe build and I know this one will go even better.
I should have built a smaller boat to learn on but I'm hard headed. :lol:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:12 am
by remedy32
Those 2 sheets shown on the left are actually 4 mirrored sheets. The two on the right are not. So it looks like 4 sheets but is 6.

The bottom is made up of 4 panels and each side is made of 3, so a total of 10 peices shown in that nesting diagram.
Right! On my older printed plans the actual "parts" are bold outlined. In addition the pieces are labeled "side" or "bottom". As you say, you'll need to make 2 sets of the panels that include the bottom.

Regarding the MW sides on plate 284/5..... yes, the forward facing angles are both 90. The cutout engages the transom which is NOT full thickness from top to bottom, but rather mostly in the clamping area at the top. This can be seen well in the profile section drawing just to the right of the MW diagram on 284/5.

The only "bulkhead" not in the nesting drawings is "A" as I recall. This can be made either from your okume plywood or from OSB at this stage. If you're certain about the configuration you're building you might as well just make it from the okume. If not 100% decided use OSB on the jig and cut the final panel later to avoid wasting a $100 piece of wood. It is part of the finished structure but is removed after flipping the hull to allow for building the inside seams along the chine and centerline. Later you'll tab it into place permanently.

Looks like you're off and running...great. But do read the build notes over and over before cutting and gluing too much together. There are a few well documented FS17 builds from the past few years. They were a big help to me when I built mine.

Good luck.

Bill
CT

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:12 am
by narfi
Thanks guys.
Remedy, I was looking at your thread, nice boat!
I had briefly thought about a raised sheer but didn't order enough extra plywood so that decision is easier now :p

Tonight I cut middle and rear side panels out.
Drew the forward bottom panels out on the plywood but then got stuck on a nesting issue.

I am struggling with how to draw the bow side panels. The plans give dimensions from a square corner but nesting diagram has it sitting kittywompas.(is that a word?)

Is there an obvious solution I'm not seeing?
I had considered cutting a template out of osb but that seems wasteful......
Is there plans with edge distances to match the nesting diagram somewhere?
20170920_210045.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:53 am
by remedy32
Is there an obvious solution I'm not seeing?
Simple answer-----yes.

The "mating" edge of that from panel is at 90 degrees to the reference line from which all offsets are taken. So using a framing square or similar, create that reference line as a "phantom" extending onto another sheet or long scrap. Think I'd just nail the 5' or so uncut piece onto a sheet of OSB that you already have (just to keep it still), create the line with the straight side of a scrap cutoff (or whatever), and draw the offsets. Measure twice (OK eleven times :lol: ) and cut the piece. Check how it mates to the rest of the side panel and use it as a guide for the second one. FYI, I'm pretty sure that the offsets at the 90 edge of this are 1-7/8 and 25-1/4. The drawing might be a bit confusing because both numbers cant occupy the same space when drawing the plan.

By the way, I bet there is a tutorial on layout methods on the Bateau site.

Hope this make sense. Easier for me to visualize than to say.

All kidding aside, always measure many times before going near the saw.

Bill

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:10 am
by Jaysen
remedy32 wrote: Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:53 am All kidding aside, always measure many times before going near the saw.
And then back away from the saw, call the wife, and have her measure it properly for you.

Although that may just be for me...

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:29 pm
by TomW1
Narfi always keep in mind that Jacques lays out the parts on the nesting diagrams to use the least amount of wood possible, so what looks strange on them will work out when you start joining things.

Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:34 pm
by narfi
Yeah Tom, I understand that :)
The problem is that the plans do not show how to measure that panel if nested the way he calls for :(
I think I will make a cardboard pattern from the measurements, and cut it out, then lay it on the plywood to trace the part.
If I remember I will take measurements and post them so the next guy doesn't run into the same problem.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:52 pm
by Jaysen
There has to be "the other part" for that. You can't have that one piece nested with no match at the joint for the rest of the panel. If you simply lay out all the ply needed to make the panel you should be able to see the measurements. You likely need to find the one corner that is clear, then draw the baseline and all other marks from there.

Or am I missing the issue some how?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:13 pm
by narfi
hehe, I may be the worlds worst communicator, just ask my wife.....

I know that the 3 side panels connect to make the full length panel.
If you look at my picture it shows the full length panel, and I easily drew out the rear two side panels.

The problem, as you can see in the picture is that the forward (bow) side panel is nested at an angle to fit in the plywood. (I circled the panels in question with red)

The measurements are taken from a straight plywood sheet and a square corner. But nested on the plywood that is NOT where it is located and so you can not measure it this way.

Image

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:23 pm
by narfi
Maybe this will explain better the issue?
questions.JPG
If I knew what the circled question mark was, and what angle that straight side was from the plywood side, I could draw some straight lines and calculate the rest, but I have no where to start.........

I am fine with an arbitrary straight line somewhere, but it is too tightly nested to just randomly draw lines, I have to know where that line is and the angle it sits on the plywood.....

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:32 pm
by Larry B
Narfi,
Can't you make your own straight line? I mean you have the measurements so just lay it out with your own straight line and then measure for all the rest. make your straight line from the tip to where the panel in flush to the line.
I don't have a clue it any of that made any sense :help:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:39 pm
by Larry B
Image

does this help?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:55 pm
by remedy32
Narfi,
Can't you make your own straight line? I mean you have the measurements so just lay it out with your own straight line and then measure for all the rest. make your straight line from the tip to where the panel in flush to the line.
I don't have a clue it any of that made any sense :help:
Right!!! I just said it poorly in my last post. Narfi, you don't need to calculate any of that stuff. Put a piece of scrap along the right side of the your earlier drawing. Now draw and extension of the panel's right side (the roughly 24" side) onto the scrap. Next draw a perpendicular line running to the left starting 1-7/8" below the corner and extending right off the sheet onto more scrap. Finally draw all your offsets from that line. Hope this is clearer. If not I'll draw it out tomorrow. Dont get a headache.

Bill

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:11 pm
by narfi
Im pretty dense.....

I think this is what you are saying,
line.JPG
Draw a line here, square with the panel I want to draw.
However.... I dont know where that panel is to base the line from......its easy when its drawn on there, but on the plywood its not drawn and there are no starting points for either side of that square........

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:25 pm
by Jaysen
Cut the other panel in that sheet first. That will force you to fit it in "what's left". Remember that you don't have to be 100% exact at this point. Big might be better than small.

Just a thought.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:32 pm
by remedy32
Right Narfi, good illustration of what I meant. Make the included angle 90 degrees and place the new line 1-7/8 below the corner and you can do all the offsets from there. Remember the right end of the piece in question aligns with a line that IS the end of a sheet of plywood. Your new line just creates a false edge to work from.

Bill

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:02 pm
by remedy32
Oops, I did get one thing wrong here. I think the beast way to position the new reference line is to work from the corner point closest to the other piece already drawn on this sheet. The point is offset at 31-1/2 vertical and 50-1/4 horizontal. Make sure the rest of the offsets stay on the sheet and you should have it. Hate to admit but I might make a cheap luan ply template as I read my own writing here. :doh:

Thinking back now I'm wondering how I did this myself 9 years ago.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:00 pm
by Chuck H
Narfi,

Unless someone is willing to draw it in CAD that measurement probably isn't available. I'm not even sure you could draw a straight line between the two parts. If you lay out your bottom panels first you'll be able to see where the part fits on the remaining portion of plywood. Remember you're not technically measuring from the edge of a sheet of plywood but from a line that just happens to fall on the edge of two plywood sheets.

It's a little squirrelly but saves about $100 worth of plywood.

Good luck

Chuck

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:32 pm
by narfi
So I layed a sheet of plywood over a large sheet of cardboard and cut a nice straight 2 square sides to work with.
Then drew out my problem panel and cut it out as a pattern.

Once transferred to the plywood I wrote down all the measurements if anyone has this in the future it will get them close.
Obviously not perfect as you loose a little each time you transfer something like that. I rounded to the nearest 1/8th.
If nothing else it will get the next guy close enough to draw a reference line from.

Zoom in to read my notes on the plywood.
20170921_191932.jpg
20170921_192358.jpg
I was thinking about a 2" camber on the bow. Is that possible or practical? I think it would look kind of nice rounded off on the front.....

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:23 am
by narfi
Got all the 1/4" plywood peices cut.

Decided to round the bow 2" if someone can convince me it's unseaworthy or ugly I can still cut them straight to plans.


20170921_221108.jpg

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Screenshot_20170921-215839.jpg


Thinking forward.
The rub rails could be 3x strips of 1/4 or 2x strips of 3/8. How much difficulty would I have bending the 3/8?

I've got 2x 1/2 sheets of 1/4 and 2x 1/3rdish sheets. All four pieces full length.
Would it be better to use them for the gunwals and save some weight? After finishing the canoe at 160% of designed weight and knowing I want this fs17 to be tough as well, I am sure I'll be fighting weight issues with it as well........

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:32 am
by bigyellowtractor
narfi wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:23 am
Decided to round the bow 2" if someone can convince me it's unseaworthy or ugly I can still cut them straight to plans.
I'd be tempted to see what it looks like when it's stitched together and make up your own mind.
(you're making a wide, square sterned HC, aren't you ??)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:53 am
by remedy32
narfi wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:23 am

Decided to round the bow 2" if someone can convince me it's unseaworthy or ugly I can still cut them straight to plans.
Glad to see you back at it. Sorry for any seeds of confusion I may have spread. Wish I had dome more of the same to the bow. It might be a bit harder to get it to get it closed but you can reduce the curve if needed. The Build Notes do mention rounding that line as I remember.

Regarding weight......As long as you dont get too carried away with resin you should be able to build this pretty light. Your choice of okume, vs. my meranti build, automatically saves over 20% of the wood weight.

Are you building center console or tiller steering?

Bill

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:45 pm
by narfi
Well, I stare and think at the instructions and plywood a little each night... haven't gotten very far yet.

Thinking about the motorwell bulkhead "E", the top of it is at deck height (14") above the baseline.
Would it look or work better if it followed the shape and height of the transom?
Advantages being a little more storage inside and a different look.
Disadvantages being primarily I think that you would no longer have a lip to keep stuff you set on it from sliding off into the water....

Thinking about all the many parts I need to cut out all nested tightly on each sheet of plywood sure seems to take more brain power than cutting out the canoe panels did.

Biggest problem is probably me overthinking it, but I would hate to screw something up or ruin a piece of plywood.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:52 pm
by Jaysen
sooooo....

Why can you build it "per plan" (or at least cut it per plan), put if kind of together (if I follow other threads right you've got to get the hull together with stingers in which means faired etc before you have to really finalize this plan), and then, once you see it kind of together use your epoxy and fiberglass skills to extend the prices later?

Make any sense at all?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:56 pm
by narfi
Yep, makes sense, and was near the top of my list of solutions :P

I can't cut it oversized now anyways as it wouldnt fit on the strongback properly..... only other option I could think of would be an OSB temporary one like all the rest of the bulkheads.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:03 pm
by Jaysen
that's not a bad solution... use the OSB for temp just make sure you don't glue it in accidentally. Then you can make it what ever size you want when it is time for "real parts" with no joints.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:48 pm
by Parkrat
Congrats on starting the FS17! I think my favorite part so far was cutting and stitching it together. Seems like you have a lot of help and I really can't offer much more. I reread..reread.. reread.. stared... stared.. reread.. stared.. so many times. :lol: For me it seemed to suddenly "click" and things made sense. Usually after a few screw ups. I have 2 builds going on now. I can't believe how it gets in your blood!

You mentioned overthinking things... I over thought a lot and kept telling myself just make it look pleasing to the eye. It really helped and especially when I started my D5 build. If it looks fare that's all that matters. I forgot who, but somebody said, "It's a boat and not going to the moon!"

I'll be watching your build because I'm sure you will pass me up soon. :help:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:58 pm
by Parkrat
narfi wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:56 pm Yep, makes sense, and was near the top of my list of solutions :P

I can't cut it oversized now anyways as it wouldnt fit on the strongback properly..... only other option I could think of would be an OSB temporary one like all the rest of the bulkheads.
I did that with a couple of my frames. I'll cut them from the nice plywood once I flip it.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:37 am
by narfi
Parkrat wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:48 pm
I'll be watching your build because I'm sure you will pass me up soon. :help:
Doubt that will happen this year.... yesterday was first frost here....



So I cut twice and it was still too short :(
(Not really.... I only cut once, but I had measured the end at 3 7/8 instead of 4 7/8 :/ )

20170926_202240.jpg
3 prices scrap because I measured wrong...... nearly 1/3rd a sheet of plywood wasted.

Measured again and cut some more and have the stringers cut out.
20170926_202320.jpg
20170926_202403.jpg
Now I have all the pieces cut out that need glued before I can start assembly. Plan is to glue them all (stringers and bottom and side panels) then cut out the osb bulkheads etc..... then take the sheeting off the table to reveal the strongback ready for assembly.

I did a couple if test pieces glued one with woodflour/epoxy and glued one panel sample with woodflour/epoxy at the seam and 12oz tape over it with epoxy. Entire batch mixed with fast cure....
20170926_202440.jpg
20170926_202500.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:06 am
by Fuzz
All is not lost when you cut it too short. You can always glass and glue it back together. But it is still a pain to mess up like that.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:19 am
by TomW1
Narfi am I reading your thermometer correctly and that the inside temp is 42 degrees F. If so you are going to need to heat your shed up to 50 - 60 degrees or heat up your epoxy up to 70 degrees in a tub of hot water. At 40 degrees epoxy basically stops curing and you will need to wait till it warms up for it to complete the cure before you can go on. I am not saying it totally stops at 40 but instead of 1 day at 70 will take 7 days at 40 before you can handle it.

Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:13 am
by Fuzz
Tom has a good point. If you glass in the evenings and then use the heater for about 30 minutes in the morning to jump start things you should be able to glass for about three more weeks. That is if the weather gods smile on us.........they have not been kind so far this year.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:16 am
by narfi
Yes..... I am aware that I am on the edge of practical temps. That's why I'm doing the test pieces......
Screenshot_20170926-230913.jpg
Heater has been returned and I won't be using it.
My wife suggested bringing the panels inside to glue.... it could work but kind of a hassle to rearrange furniture and Landon and the dog running around makes it less than ideal.
Other option would be take them to work and do them in the hanger.... but also not ideal as we have a pretty busy shop and don't want to take up that much floor space in the way.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:17 am
by Jaysen
Allow me to suggest a thought...

When preceding an option that allows you to continue build in suboptimal conditions with "the wife said" you need to stop, go get whatever the Alaskan equivalent of "flowers for the wife" is (it must be something like a moose steak or a fresh caught salmon) and then DO IT HER WAY!!

Jeesh man, what are you thinking about?!?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:36 am
by topwater
Just build a tent with some plastic or a tarp ,put pieces in with a light bulb and should be cured by morning.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:57 am
by Jaysen
you may under estimate the silliness that is "not summer" in Alaska. It's just not warm there...

;)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:18 am
by topwater
Use a halogen bulb and a small tent :wink:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:38 am
by Jaysen
I was thinking one of those 3kw work lights, a tent made of r30 insulation, and a low speed fan to encourage airflow.

Then the "the wife said" and ... it seems like a lot less effort to wrangle a kid and a dog. :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:44 pm
by narfi
So this morning I peeked in at it, was 39F at 8am so was a pretty steady ~40 through the night (I hadn't reset the memory on the thermometer so couldn't check that)

The wood flour/epoxy mix was very thick but I could still stick my thumb into it, I didn't try pulling the plywood apart, but am guessing I could have with some difficulty still.
The tape felt slimy but not sticky, but the edges were definitely not hard yet, not even to the 'green' cut with scissors stage. I think the slimy feeling was the blush surfacing, so will need to pay careful attention to that if I do any actual gluing outside this fall.

Will check tonight after its had a day of daylight and maybe a little sun on the tent, and start forming some opinions.

Is time and blush the only concerns with cooler slower cure times?
If it takes 2-3 days till I can work on it, is there any structural concerns?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:18 pm
by Netpackrat

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:23 pm
by narfi
Hehe, thanks.
I am WAY over budget for this year and into next year already....
Cant afford insulation, and cant afford heating without insulation.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:15 pm
by Netpackrat
Got an axe?

Warning, video contains profanity...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:31 pm
by narfi
Netpackrat wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:15 pm Got an axe?
While I agree with the sentiment, the math doesn't align.
A subsistence lifestyle is romantic, but fuel oil is cheaper even when you have to fly it in when weighted against lost wages etc....
During the winter I several more hours a day than there is daylight, during the summer I spent my non working time building the first boat.....

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:33 pm
by Netpackrat
Just yanking your chain a little. :D

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:14 pm
by narfi
Of course! all in good fun :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:35 pm
by Jaysen
It could be cheaper to move someplace with better weather too..

A hurricane might kill you if you are unlucky... that cold ... I'll take my hurricane thank you very much.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:18 am
by TomW1
narfi wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:44 pm
Is time and blush the only concerns with cooler slower cure times?
If it takes 2-3 days till I can work on it, is there any structural concerns?
No there are no are no structural concerns Narfi as the epoxy will eventually cure, you will have to go with a mechanical bond instead of a chemical bond but that is pretty much what you would have had to do in AK any way. With the blush do not sand it first, wash it off first and then sand it to get a good mechanical bond.

Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:11 am
by bigyellowtractor
narfi wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:23 pm Cant afford insulation, and cant afford heating without insulation.
You wouldn't need much to keep some heat in Narfi. Something as simple as a tent that you drape or move over your bench/boat when you've done for the day would do it. A couple of hoop or triangle frames made out of 2x2, some long "ridge" poles and then drape with thin polythene. Cover that with some cheap packing blankets, old bed quilts, etc and you'd only need a tiny bit of heat; maybe an electric tube heater https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index ... r_Heaters/ to significantly raise the temperature.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:54 am
by Netpackrat
Jaysen wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:35 pm It could be cheaper to move someplace with better weather too..

A hurricane might kill you if you are unlucky... that cold ... I'll take my hurricane thank you very much.
Image

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:13 am
by Jaysen
Those are all Florida (and appear to be the SAME HOUSE). Just don't go to Florida and it's safe!

Ok... maybe just safe-er

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:34 am
by cape man
What about an electric blanket? You can cover the boat with a plastic sheet and then the blanket, or 2.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:23 am
by Jaysen
cape man wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:34 am What about an electric blanket? You can cover the boat with a plastic sheet and then the blanket, or 2.
Now that's a good idea!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:27 am
by pee wee
With a small tent over the boat, a lightbulb (or two or three) may generate enough heat to make a big difference- that's what we'd do for concrete pours when it threatened to go below freezing.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:59 pm
by Fuzz
They have the right idea. Visqueen over the top and a light bulb under will work for a long time. I am sure you have seen a hundred watt bulb keep a well house from freezing all winter. Make sure the bulb is below your work, heat rises you know :D

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:47 pm
by bateau-webmaster
Coming right along! Added to build threads page. 8)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:33 pm
by narfi
bateau-webmaster wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:47 pm Coming right along! Added to build threads page. 8)
Thanks :)
Though my finished HC14 build thread is probably more deserving than this thread at this point.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:29 pm
by peter-curacao
Netpackrat wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:54 am

Image
LOL And then a polar bear took shelter on his porch, no not polar beer :lol: Image

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:47 am
by Jeff
Peter, great photos!! Lot of truth there!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:53 pm
by TomW1
Great one Peter! :lol: :lol:

Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:19 am
by narfi
I realized I hadnt cut out the transom yet.....
Drew it out with no problem but then I confused myself again.....

I can't find the height for the clamping boards. I am sure it is obvious but can't seem to find it.

I know that they are traced from the already cut out transom, but I am not sure how far down they are supposed to go.......

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:56 am
by joe2700
10 7/8 in the plans, but you can go all the way to the baseline at the expense of some weight.

You'll find it at the top of D284_5_US, its confusing though, because the measurement is given on the space you cut for it in the motorwell sides.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:23 am
by narfi
ok thanks that makes sense. I assume that is 10 7/8 from the corners?

Also trying to wrap my mind around the 'deck' level.
The deckline is where the molds are cut off and rest on the strongback....
The deckline is 14" above the baseline....
The deckline seems to be below the sheer?????
The deckline does not seem to match with the top of the transom or the transom cutout (for 20" shaft)?????

Is the deckline just an arbitrary location to line up the strongback with? or does it relate to something else as well?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:15 am
by joe2700
narfi wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:23 am ok thanks that makes sense. I assume that is 10 7/8 from the corners?

Also trying to wrap my mind around the 'deck' level.
The deckline is where the molds are cut off and rest on the strongback....
The deckline is 14" above the baseline....
The deckline seems to be below the sheer?????
The deckline does not seem to match with the top of the transom or the transom cutout (for 20" shaft)?????

Is the deckline just an arbitrary location to line up the strongback with? or does it relate to something else as well?
10 7/8 from the flat part in the middle of the transom, where the motor will mount. The part of the transom that is 12 5/8 tall in the plans, the clamping board cover at least the top 10 7/8 of that, or you can go all the way to baseline so 12 5/8 tall.

You are right that the deckline is arbitrary. You'll notice the plans also show a one side of each frame going above the deckline a specified amount, I think that is the distance to the sheer. This description about the deckline is in the instructions:
We show a line parallel to the baseline, it is the marked DL for deck line. That line is the level of the
lower face of the decks and bench tops. It is also the level of the top of our strongbacks. This limits
the required cuts and measurements. Except for mold A, we will cut all the molds at that level.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:53 pm
by narfi
Motorwell.png
Motorwell.png (8.77 KiB) Viewed 2594 times
Ok, now I am getting more confused again :/

I think what is labeled 'Baseline' in this diagram (from D284/5) is actually the 'Deckline'?

The 'Deckline' (if that is what it is) does not seem parallel to the bottom line of the motorwell sides.
19 3/4 does not equal 20 1/8...........

This seems critical to me as the transom is positioned based off of the motorwell side pieces (and angle cut in strongbacks)

If I was to guess I would think the upper left corner is square in that diagram and none of the others are?
(Is it possible for anyone to confirm this for me? I have gotten mixed messages on that exact question in the past)

With that assumption the top and left lines are square with each other.
the 17 7/8 and 20 1/8" measurements would be vertical and horizontal measurements to mark the corner and not line lengths....

That in turn means the back edge is (very) roughly 20 5/8" which is (also very roughly) an inch higher than the transom cutout........
This then means that the clamping board is only (roughly) 9.75 - 10" tall where the motor mounts.
Perhaps this is perfect? 10 inches for the clamping board at the cut out?

That all falls in place and seems logical sort of in my head now...... unless I need a full 10 7/8" of clamping board......

I am sure I am over thinking it, but I would like to understand it before I cut stuff.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:02 am
by Chuck H
Narfi,

You're right, the drawing is mislabeled. Keep in mind that the bottom hull panels are twisted due to the variable deadrise. A line drawn near the keel won't be parallel to a line drawn near the chine. The top edge of the motorwell sides shoud be perpendicular to the motorwell bulkhead on the deckline. The longitudinal members of your strong back should be spaced so that the motorwell sides sit on top of them, properly setting the transom angle.

I think the top of the clamping board we be at the deckline, it gains a lot of strength from being glued directly to the deck. Another thing you might want to consider is that the bottom holes of an outboard motor mount need to be 9 7/8" from the top of the clamping board ( in the cutout ) so you can adjust the depth of the clamping board accordingly.

I hope that didn't make things more confusing.

Chuck

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:10 am
by narfi
Chuck H wrote: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:02 am the bottom holes of an outboard motor mount need to be 9 7/8" from the top of the clamping board ( in the cutout ) so you can adjust the depth of the clamping board accordingly.

I hope that didn't make things more confusing.

Chuck
that helps me....
i can cut the clamping boards ensuring when i trace the transom that there is atleast 10 7/8 (9 7/8 plus edge distance.... is 1" edge enough?) of clamping board where the motor mounts.

That will likely be more than the 10 7/8 notch cut in the motorwell sides but not a big deal i can trim them to fit when installing.

does that sound right?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:04 pm
by joe2700
narfi wrote: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:10 am
Chuck H wrote: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:02 am the bottom holes of an outboard motor mount need to be 9 7/8" from the top of the clamping board ( in the cutout ) so you can adjust the depth of the clamping board accordingly.

I hope that didn't make things more confusing.

Chuck
that helps me....
i can cut the clamping boards ensuring when i trace the transom that there is atleast 10 7/8 (9 7/8 plus edge distance.... is 1" edge enough?) of clamping board where the motor mounts.

That will likely be more than the 10 7/8 notch cut in the motorwell sides but not a big deal i can trim them to fit when installing.

does that sound right?
I think the plan of making the clamping board first, ensuring it goes from the cutout down far enough for the bottom motor bolts plus a little extra, makes sense. Don't cut any notch in the motorwell side yet, then you can just take the measurement from your clamping board when it comes time to cut the notch. The plans are pretty confusing around this part as you've found, so just go slow and figure it out as you can actually put the parts together. Once you have them in 3d space it will make more sense.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:35 am
by narfi
Have been getting some condensation in the tent dripping on the wood and freezing.... just what i had laying on the table and I dont think its soaked in very deep.

Finished tracing and cutting out the clamping boards tonight and then brought them inside to dry out. Will glue them inside once im satisfied they are dry.
20171018_213344.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:53 am
by narfi
Glued the transom and clamping board together a couple nights ago. It looks good.

I am pretty sure I have the best wife in the world.....
She just told me she doesnt need a dining room or sitting room for the winter.
There are double doors off our dining room so I need to measure and make sure an FS17 hull can fit through them......

She is a big fan of the tv series Dexter and the selling point that tipped the scales was telling her we could make a "Dexter room".
(for those who havent seen the show he is a vigalante serial killer who often stages his killings in visquine rooms)

Only rule is no power tools late at night which seems reasonable.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:41 am
by bigyellowtractor
narfi wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:53 am
She is a big fan of the tv series Dexter and the selling point that tipped the scales was telling her we could make a "Dexter room".
(for those who havent seen the show he is a vigalante serial killer who often stages his killings in visquine rooms)
Made me chuckle, Narfi. Whenever I "sheet up" a room for plastering a ceiling, I think of Dexter :-) Bloody-good series (pun intended)

Looking forward to following your build.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:03 am
by narfi
Glued up the stringers saturday night while momma was out. When finished we wiped up all excess thickened epoxy and then weighted them down with paint cans. Then we wiped up all that squeezed out and went to bed.

Next morning we realized the weight kept squeezing it out and they were both glued to the dining room floor vinyl tiles.......

Good thing is the tiles need replacing anyways and we didnt damage them too much cutting the resin drips off......

Momma just shook her head and asked, "I thought you were supposed to put plastic under it?......"

Tonight we glued the bottom panels together with one side of 12oz tape. (we did put plastic down this time)
I wondered about just taping one side and putting it on the inside to eleviate some fairing down the road but then I went back and read the instructions again.....

"Cut the panels, line them up and assemble the parts with a fiberglass splice. That fiberglass splice is
a piece of biaxial fiberglass tape 12 oz. (400 gr) 6” wide (15 cm), one layer each side. Again, see our
tutorials for details."

So we will be taping the other side as well.
We still dont have the dexter room setup. I need an energetic day to move all the dining room and sitting room furnature first. Thinking of retiring the old overstuffed easychair to the top of Landons double decker playhouse but its heavy......

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:25 am
by Jeff
Narfi, Good to hear from you!! How is your weather, cold already?? Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:25 am
by narfi
yes the early snow melted but we have had a skim of snow on the ground for a week now again and pretty cold. Lots of ice crystals under my floor tarp in the tent makes walking around out there "crunchy"

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:40 pm
by narfi
Weather report for Jeff......
20171109_083433.jpg
Landon helped me drag the bottom pannels out to the tent last night and I sanded the epoxy drips off the second side and brought them back in.

They were pretty cold by then as I had also spent some time sanding the excess off the stringers as well. So I let them aclimate to inside temps overnight and layed the glass tape splice down this morning before work.

Weather picture is 8am getting ready for work. Definatly a beaver hat day for my honda ride to the hangar :p

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:11 pm
by pee wee
Nice to hear you're making progress, it sure looks cold there this morning!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:36 pm
by Jeff
NARFI, wow, lots of snow!! Really pretty but I am sure it is too cold already!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:01 pm
by narfi
Picture for peter....
'Dog glued down'
Resized_20171107_144524_7569.jpg
(wife texted me this image earlier this week. Thankfully it had already cured... we got a laugh out of it though)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:52 pm
by narfi
36” from the bow side of A to the bow side of B
36” from the bow side of B to the bow side of C
36” from the bow side of C to the stern side of D
36” from the stern side of D to the stern side of E
Just to verify...
The first 36" isn't measured from front of the strongback, but 36" from the front of Mold A which is screwed to the front of the strongback?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:02 pm
by Jeff
Narfi, nice to hear from you and great pup photo!!Hope you and the family had a very Merry Christmas!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:29 pm
by silentneko
narfi wrote: Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:52 pm
36” from the bow side of A to the bow side of B
36” from the bow side of B to the bow side of C
36” from the bow side of C to the stern side of D
36” from the stern side of D to the stern side of E
Just to verify...
The first 36" isn't measured from front of the strongback, but 36" from the front of Mold A which is screwed to the front of the strongback?
Yes, from the front of mold A. So if you are using 1/2" MDF then it's 1/2" in front of the stong back ends.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:45 pm
by narfi
I thought I was ready to start assembling my jig, but I can't find spacing for the notches on my stringers anywhere.
I haven't started screwing molds to the strong back yet so I could cut their notches full height, but my intent had been to notch them together. What am I missing?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:43 am
by narfi
I went with 18" from the short corner of the stringer and 36" increments after that cutting notches on same side of the lines the molds on the strongback from their lines.
20171230_213519.jpg
20171230_213534.jpg
Hoping to cut out the bow mold tomorrow. Not sure how different it should be for the rounded bow panels I made.
Get the transom screwed up into place. (Motorwell sides may need slight tweaking something isn't quite perfect with alignment across the back there.)

Landon is excited to drill the ziptie holes. He requested I only mark them and let him drill them......

Depending on how that all goes might have the bottom panels in place before festivities start tomorrow night.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:44 am
by Jeff
Narfi, glad to see you and Landon are back to Boat building!! How cold is it up there asthe Northern US has been terribly cold over the last week or so!! Happy New Year, Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:11 am
by jacquesmm
The spacing for the notches is the spacing of the frames.
The frames go in the notches and the plans show the frames spacing.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:14 am
by narfi
jacquesmm wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:11 am The spacing for the notches is the spacing of the frames.
The frames go in the notches and the plans show the frames spacing.
My problem is the frames are measured from the bow and the notches have to be measured from the transom. Yes spacing is the same but you still need a starting point which I couldn't find mentioned in the plans.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:19 am
by fallguy1000
narfi wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:43 am I went with 18" from the short corner of the stringer and 36" increments after that cutting notches on same side of the lines the molds on the strongback from their lines.
I read this and was confused. It isn't arbitrary and I believe JM confirms. I haven't built the boat, so I'm only echoing the words of the master.

Looking forward to this thing coming together. Wish my kids were interested in helping.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:40 pm
by TomW1
narfi wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:14 am
jacquesmm wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:11 am The spacing for the notches is the spacing of the frames.
The frames go in the notches and the plans show the frames spacing.
My problem is the frames are measured from the bow and the notches have to be measured from the transom. Yes spacing is the same but you still need a starting point which I couldn't find mentioned in the plans.
Narfi measure for the frames from the bow and mark that point, it should show whether the front or back of the notch. Then cut the notch. No need to measure from the transom. You are making double work for your self.

Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:09 pm
by narfi
TomW1 wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:40 pm
Narfi measure for the frames from the bow and mark that point, it should show whether the front or back of the notch. Then cut the notch. No need to measure from the transom. You are making double work for your self.

Tom
Sorry I am very bad at getting my point across in text.........

The plans show measurements for mounting the frames on the strong back. No issue there.

The stringers are shorter than the strong back. Since the transom is angled the back end is in front of the rear of the strong back, and since it is shorter than the strong back the front points are behind the front of thee strong back.

The motor well sides are 17 7/8 and the drawing shows 18" so I went with 18" and got lucky.
My confusion was it's not discussed in the plans (just the strong back positions for the frames) and that it can't just be copied from the strong back spacing because the ends are not even between strong back and stringers.

It looks good this way and the transom lines up well with strong back, stringers and motor well sides so I think it will be fine.


@Jeff it's 38f and howling winds. Lost more shingles in the night do to strong winds. New roof in the spring, we have all the tin but ran out of time before first snow made it impractical for 2017.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:59 pm
by Jeff
Narfi, you guys stay safe & warm!!! Good look with the roof!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:09 pm
by fallguy1000
Good luck Narfi! It is minus 5F here for a high.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:19 am
by narfi
Laid the "butterfly" down on the jig and looks like I have the same hard spot others have struggled with.

Since this picture I've hauled it out to the tent and trimmed it a very little amount in that area and sanded down.
Brought it back in and it's still there a little bit but not as bad.

Had no more time last night and went to the festivities covered in sawdust ;p

Will put some holes in the bow mold and tighten stuff up a bit tonight to see how it looks, but will probably need one more little trim.
20180101_071121.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:11 pm
by silentneko
No need to put holes in the bow mold, when you're stitching gets tighter and the sides are on it will pull down to it naturally. However make sure to cover the bow mold, and all the other exposed areas of the molds along the chine and centerline, with packing tape or plastic. If not you'll end up gluing the hull to the frame.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:16 pm
by fallguy1000
silentneko wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:11 pm No need to put holes in the bow mold, when you're stitching gets tighter and the sides are on it will pull down to it naturally. However make sure to cover the bow mold, and all the other exposed areas of the molds along the chine and centerline, with packing tape or plastic. If not you'll end up gluing the hull to the frame.
Good catch!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:50 pm
by narfi
fallguy1000 wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:16 pm
silentneko wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:11 pm No need to put holes in the bow mold, when you're stitching gets tighter and the sides are on it will pull down to it naturally. However make sure to cover the bow mold, and all the other exposed areas of the molds along the chine and centerline, with packing tape or plastic. If not you'll end up gluing the hull to the frame.
Good catch!
Agreed! thanks!

I knew that but got excited to see what it would look like :)
Ill tape the areas epoxy will drip through tonight before anything else.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:40 pm
by joe2700
silentneko wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:11 pm No need to put holes in the bow mold, when you're stitching gets tighter and the sides are on it will pull down to it naturally. However make sure to cover the bow mold, and all the other exposed areas of the molds along the chine and centerline, with packing tape or plastic. If not you'll end up gluing the hull to the frame.
I found holes on the bow mold helped quite a bit. Without them the zip ties were stuck between the hull and bow mold making hard spots that didn't exist otherwise.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:45 am
by narfi
Second trimming and it lined up really well along the centerline. I cut 1" sections off a small dowel and put under each ziptie along the centerline which helped alot.

A little weird still right at the bow point but I expected issues with pulling everything together so it was good enough to hang the sides.

I marked the hole pattern for the sides off a little and they are both shifted forward 1/4 to 3/8" which is unfortunate.... I'll have to drill new holes to get everything lined up...... hopefully that is all that's wrong with them :)

I used up the dowl on the centerline but found an old pvc pipe I cut up for the side panel zipties but it's got a larger diameter and seems to push the panels apart too much.... will see how it all lines up with the new holes and if I need anything under the zipties or not.

Till tomorrow night though I'll just let it sit there and get comfy with it's new shape.
20180101_210934.jpg
20180101_211005.jpg
20180101_210921.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:40 am
by Jeff
Nice Narfi!!! Looking really good!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:14 pm
by silentneko
I had to slide my panels back and forth at the transom to get the bow to line up better. If you slide it back you can trim the excess off. If you slide it up you can fill in the gap like I did at the back.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:11 am
by narfi
I must have cut the bow mold a little large or something, I think it was part of my troubles. The sheer point was hitting it and the chine point couldn't suck down because it was in the way.

I unzipped around the front and did surgery on the bow mold with a multi tool cutter. Cut the point off the mold and the corner off where the chines meet. There is still a little gap but id have to completely remove the bow mold and trim it down to get better. I think this is close enough wood flour and epoxy can fill it in.

The bottom panels had a slight bulge of about 1/8" at the bulkhead just infront of the transom. While 1/8" isn't alot it just looked wrong to me. I unzipped the rear few feet and messed with it a while till I figured out the problem. The bottom was laying hard against the transom. I lifted it up and put nails as spacers under it and now it's really close. I'll see how it looks tomorrow.

Landon and I crawled around underneath and taped between most if the zipties. Will have to redo some of it from where I was pushing and pulling on the bottom panels trying to figure out that issue.
20180103_225549.jpg
20180103_225508.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:34 am
by Eric1
Looks good Narfi! Build on!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:35 am
by Jeff
Narfi, You and Landon are doing a great job!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:47 am
by silentneko
Hey, it looks closer then mine was at this point, lol.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:09 am
by remedy32
Nice job on the bow! I "forgot" the camber when I built my FS17. The rounded look you've got is much more appealing. One of the very few things I regret from the build. Keep up the good work; with the flip being a good intermediate goal. Once the boat is turned over it REALLY feels like you're working on a boat.

Bill
CT

BTW Pondering buying a big pile of wood to build a Devlin Pelicano 23 as I assemble a little FS13 in the basement. The bug never goes away completely!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:17 am
by narfi
remedy32 wrote: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:09 am Nice job on the bow! I "forgot" the camber when I built my FS17. The rounded look you've got is much more appealing.
I greatly exaggerated the camber called for in the plans as I had really liked the rounded ends on my HC14. I had hoped to match the curve of the bottom panel there and it's not quite perfect but close enough I think I can fill it in and shape it with epoxy/wood flour before I start taping.

Something I forgot to mention last night was that we tried the shorts of pvc pipe under the chine zipties last night to much better effect, the pictures posted have a dowel or pvc pipe under all zipties except for the very front of the bow.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:04 pm
by Fuzz
Looks like you have been taking advantage of this heat wave. Boat is looking good. I love the point where they go from a pile of wood to a boat looking thing :D

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:43 am
by narfi
Well, I am commited now....

We loosely redid the zipties we cut for straightening the bottom panels yesterday. Just tight enough to keep stuff from moving but not tight enough to effect the shape.

Then we re-did the duct tape underneath and finished taping under the bow.

Mixed a small batch of resin and brushed between all seams to get the wood saturated.
20180104_222143.jpg
Then I mixed small batches of wood flour and epoxy and filled between all the zipties. I used a bondo scraper to work it in and remove all excess. One batch was a bit dry one a little runny and two just right.



When done I had Landon go over the dry patch with straight resin and a brush. Im not sure how much that helped but he was really wanting to get sticky..... or atleast an excuse to wear gloves.
20180104_222413.jpg
20180104_222445.jpg
Tomorow it will be to late to change our minds :p

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:09 am
by Fuzz
Looking good! I think that bow shape might grow on me. Looking forward to seeing it after the flip :D

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:27 am
by Fair WX Pilot
It looks great, very rewarding when it all starts to come together.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:40 am
by glossieblack
narfi wrote: Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:43 am Tomorow it will be to late to change our minds :p
There will be no need to. 8)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:45 pm
by narfi
Was showing pictures to a coworker this morning, he thought there looked like a lot of drag on the hull.

Until I explained the benefits of micro hydrofoils to him...........

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:17 pm
by TomW1
That bow shape sort of grows on you. I think if you would have put a piece of PVC pipe under your ties you would have a better looking form. Right now to my old eyes it looks like the bottom over hangs the sides. :doh:

Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:48 pm
by narfi
TomW1 wrote: Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:17 pm That bow shape sort of grows on you. I think if you would have put a piece of PVC pipe under your ties you would have a better looking form. Right now to my old eyes it looks like the bottom over hangs the sides. :doh:

Tom
If you look up a few posts, we did put the pvc under every ziptie except for the very front of the bow.
Something I forgot to mention last night was that we tried the shorts of pvc pipe under the chine zipties last night to much better effect, the pictures posted have a dowel or pvc pipe under all zipties except for the very front of the bow.
If you look at the picture I posted with the glue between seams, you can see one of the pieces laying under the boat.
The only place any panels overlap is the side panels at the transom which I will have to grind flush once the gluing is done.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:10 am
by narfi
We cut the zipties tonight and Landon taped the inside all my himself. Kind of nice he even (barely squeezed into the bow compartments each side of the bow mold)

Then we epoxy primed all the edges and filled with wood flour/epoxy.

While cutting the zipties the tip of the bow sprung open so I got it tightened back down, sanded a radius and used a bit of fiberglass tape this round to hold it in place.

(I would give credit to whoever I learned that trick from here on the forums, but I've read so many build threads last two years I cant remember who I saw do it)
20180105_213704.jpg
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:28 am
by Aripeka Angler
That's nice looking work.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:44 am
by pee wee
Umm . . . is Landon barefoot? It's either warmer there than I thought, or the natives grow tough!

The hull shape is looking good, seems you're working neatly. I bet the canoe build experience is paying off.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:57 am
by Jeff
Narfi, you and Landon have done some really nice clean work!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:35 am
by Bogieman
Narfi,

Now that is time well spent right there. Back in 2009 / 2010 my daughters helped out on my FL14 & D15 builds. We had a blast. You'll really enjoy looking back on these threads in the coming years.

Bogie

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:20 am
by narfi
pee wee wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:44 am Umm . . . is Landon barefoot? It's either warmer there than I thought, or the natives grow tough!
Hehe yes he is barefoot. But he is also inside... we are building in my wifes dining room and sitting room area....

There was a fresh inch or snow yesterday on our porch and I was grilling steaks barefoot as well. Feet are tough... as long as its quick and the snow isn't deep enough to fall over the top tender parts of your foot, then barefoot isn't a big deal.

Thanks for the comments guys, its encouraging. I see so many nice builds here I just see the flaws in my own work :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:29 am
by fallguy1000
I froze my feet at age 17. Feet are not tough. Once capillaries freeze; they no longer function. I can't walk to my mailbox in a flat shoe when it is below zero.

I am enjoying your build Narfi. You are at a fun stage seeing it take its shape. My son(s) want nothing to do with my build. It might be a little overwhelming for when I am in my hazard suit. I made my oldest (20) spend an hour and a half working on it yesterday as a qpq since I did a brakejob on his car.

Are you going to put a skeg on yours? They are all the hot topic these days, skegs and splashsrails.

I bought thickster gloves; they last for days. Make sure you know to clean any epoxy off with vinegar; it works okay. Not sure how far into the bush you are since you have internet.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:40 am
by narfi
Yes prolonged exposure is nothing to take lightly. It's a constant struggle keeping Landon bundled in the winter, he is convinced he is "Alaska Boy" and doesn't need it. His body does pump out the heat though, indoors he usually wears less than some of you tropical guys wear outside.

We are 150miles from the closest road system.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:45 am
by narfi
Im still deciding skeg, strake and splash rail options.
I prefer the look of the reverse chine.
Was thinking maybe a couple extra layers of tape on the keel for abrasion and then mild reverse chine and strakes.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:46 pm
by fallguy1000
I don’t want to profess to an Alaskan, but I froze my feet in 3 hours outside at 17F and the only issue was a tight boot-that easy.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:17 pm
by Fuzz
I am pretty sure Narfi has the most understanding wife in history. I think he building in the house. I think I see carpet under the floor plastic. I am sure Langdon is tough, kids seem to handle the cold really well.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:29 pm
by narfi
It's a throw rug.... most of the boat is in the dining room with just the bow protruding into livingroom area. One reason she was willing is the floors need to be redone. Right now it's just painted plywood.

I layed tape against the side panels and poured thinner batches of thickened epoxy down from the bottom to fill enough to sand a good radius out of. Some of my gaps were pretty big so the glue was concave in places, I think this will remedy that.

I thickened up the last bit and finished shaping the bow seams and pulled the screws out of the transom and filled those holes as well. Right now it's just wood, glue and tape... no metal :)
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:17 pm
by TomW1
It looks great Narfi. Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:12 am
by Jeff
Narfi, wow, I did not know you were so remote (150 miles from nearest road network)!! I assume the airport that you sent us photos of some time ago fully supports your community?? Again, great build and glad to see Landon so involved!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:00 pm
by Fuzz
If it were me I would think real hard about putting both a skeg and the reverse chines on your boat. The main reason in your case is your shoreline. The boat is going to take some abuse no matter what and I would want something that could have a pretty good sized hunk taken out of it and it not matter. Or at least it can wait until the end of the season. Look at the bottom of some other boats there and see where they are getting beat up.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:35 pm
by fallguy1000
Thicken the fillers on a board with a trowel at the end and you can get them a bit stiffer than in the bucket.

I found peelply to be excellent at helping maintain the shape.

Peelply is basically polyester fabric.

You can substitute the real for polyester, but plastic works, too. Test any fabric for release before you try on boat.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:43 pm
by Fair WX Pilot
Hi, If its 150 miles to a road network, I take it the water is a bit closer?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:41 am
by narfi
Yes I live on a huge lake.

Finished my wifes "Dexter Room"
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I sanded all the glue and squared off the corners and shaped the bow. Im pretty happy with it but 1-2 small voids and a couple of ziptie holes not 100% filled in.
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I will fill the voids tonight then tomorow finish shaping and sanding the radius for taping.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:56 am
by narfi
One more pic of a nice corner before it gets rounded.
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:25 am
by Eric1
Looking good Narfi! :D

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:26 am
by Fair WX Pilot
Looks great, very accurate work. Dexter room - very disturbing :lol:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:45 am
by fallguy1000
yes, 😆 creepy

What lake is the boat destined for narfi?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:57 pm
by narfi
Ordered some blended filler from Jeff today, Thanks!

Still thinking about the strakes and reverse chine......
How do I go about determining dimensions of what I want?
I am thinking either wood or some sort of self made woodflour/epoxy molded triangles.......

3/4" sides for the strakes? or is that too small?
It seems the reverse chine should be some sort of a wide triangle, is this correct? With the side flush with the side panels, and the bottom somewhat level in position to the slope of the 'V' ????? 4x1???

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:16 pm
by Fuzz
If you are getting stuff from Jeff have him through in a couple bags of chopped strain glass. If you make your strakes out of glass this will make them tough. I made some using 1.5 inch aluminium angle and they were flexible enough to conform to the hull real easy.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:48 am
by Jeff
Narfi, if you want to add, let me know this morning as your blended filler will depart about 11:00 AM this morning via US Postal Service. Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:03 am
by narfi
Hehe... 11am is my 7am alarm here... just read this still in bed. No worries though I am still trying to figure out what I'm doing.......

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:19 am
by fallguy1000
Ply scraps seems right to me. Make an angle; then see if they’ll take the curve.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:54 pm
by TomW1
Narfi 1" willl be fine for the strakes. For the reverse chines, start with a 2x4 ie. 1 1x2 nominal for the short side parallel to the side and then cut the other two sides to fit the bottom. So you have a triangle with 3 different length sides. From there you taper it to the bow. You can use the 2x4 to make a mold and fill it with a mix of epoxy, fiberglass milled fibers, silica and wood powder. You can use the same mix for the strakes using angle iron or aluminum for the mold. Just form the front with a plane. Also have where you are putting the strakes marked as they will start to get stiff and you will not have a lot of working time with them.

Things to think about.

Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:44 pm
by narfi
Thanks Tom, that helps solidify my thoughts.
For the 2x4 and 1x1 triangles, if made from wood, is there anything special needed?
I am not a wood worker, nor have any experience with wood, I got the best plywood from BBC here to make sure I had a good long lasting boat when I was done, would be a shame to then stick something on it that fell apart in 2 years........

It isn't structural, and I will be glassing it over so looks arent that important I suppose, just longevity and ease of working with, and ability to bond with resin which I would guess most woods do?
For example, is just whatever random 2x4s they sell at the hardware store good enough if they look clean and straight, or do I need to be looking for something different?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:37 pm
by TomW1
Narfi as far as the woods you have in your hardware stores I don't know what woods are available to you. Maybe Fuzz can help you out there. Or stop in and find out what woods they have. You don't want plain old white pine if you can get something else. If not you can make it work. For that matter if you have any 3/4 Meranti left you can use that for the strakes and also build it up for the chines.

For the measurements go down 1 1/2" on the side, then 4" along the bottom and what ever length the water plane is. That should give you good spray protection. Keep it fairly deep to the center of the boat before starting to fair it to the bow.

Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:48 pm
by Fuzz
Wood could be a bit of a problem where you are at. Do you have a dead standing spruce around? No matter how you go put plenty of glass over the strakes. You know they are going to take a beating.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:59 pm
by narfi
Well I wouldn't want to go to town myself(what a miserable place), but in an exchange of goods and favors I can usually get someone to shop for me, I just cant be picking it out myself, so I need to be very specific about what I need and want. (which I can't do until I know what I need or want)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:41 pm
by TomW1
Narfi are there any wood mils in your area? If not call the hardware store and see what they have in 2 x 4's and let us know what they have. You will need two 16' and 1 8' or if they don't have 16', 5 8' 2x4's. If they don't have them ask where you can get them. Ask some friends where they get there wood. Spruce wood be good.

Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:22 am
by narfi
I will research and see if I can get spruce 2x4s here.

Unboxed my new shop vac so got for Christmas and discovered it doesn't work so well when your floors and walls are thin plastic.

So I swept as best I could and marked about where I need to put my tapes. Hopefully start with that tomorow night.
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Reading another forum today I had to show Landon pictures of this guys work and Landon agreed it looked like out progress.
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This could very well be our next boat project, it is almost perfectly what I have been looking for.
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GlintCFX.jpg (20.99 KiB) Viewed 2128 times

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:22 am
by Jeff
Great looking plane Narfi!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:50 am
by Fuzz
Just for info when you guys tell Narfi to run down to the hardware store that involves an airplane ride of 150 miles, each way. No stores there, everything must be ordered and flown in with the delay and costs involved. That is why I asked if he had a dead standing spruce close at hand.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:47 am
by narfi
Layed down the tapes after work tonight.
Started with the transom, then the keel, then the chines.

Each section I started by brushing down a coat of epoxy, then laid down the tape, then patted, brushed or squeegee the tape down to the epoxy along the entire length, then brushed fresh epoxy down from the top along the entire section, then a third pass catching any dry spots that hadn't completely soaked in yet.

I was a bit frustrated with the edges of the tape, one edge is clean the other is frayed and impossible to get to lay nicely, oh well I'll just grind and feather before the cloth.

The corners of the transom were not perfect, but I kind of expected this, nothing that can't be fixed :)
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Silentneko! You need to do the next step so I know what to do :) I have decided you are my new bigyellowtractor version: fs17

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:52 am
by silentneko
Lol, well I might be glassing the bottom either tomorrow or Saturday. Or maybe I'll wait to see what you do next....

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:57 am
by Fair WX Pilot
Looks great Narfi, really enjoying watching this come together.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:35 am
by Fuzz
Good looking winter project. This puppy is going to be nice. I am betting it is going to work just right on the lake.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:50 am
by fallguy1000
I mark all my tapes so I can tell which side is the cs. Always label them up. If youcan read the up; it comes outnicer ime, otherwise it says pu, well, sort of...

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:59 am
by narfi
Been on hold a few days. We were all sick over the weekend followed by mommas appendix bursting. So I am in the hospital with her and Landon is staying with a friend.

Since I'm in town anyway I will try to stop at home depot and look for some straight peices for chines and strikes.

Since I'm there what do I need for batans for floor, consols, seats, gunwals, etc.... in terms of total length?

Surgery cost more than a small boat motor o.0

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:32 pm
by Jeff
Narfi, did you notice that Jamie made you a Bateau Builder this morning?? Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:36 pm
by narfi
nice... does that qualify me for a second sugar pack in the breakroom?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:44 pm
by Jeff
Yes, but only two!! More will cost you!! Stay warm!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:05 pm
by silentneko
Jeff wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:32 pm Narfi, did you notice that Jamie made you a Bateau Builder this morning?? Jeff
Congrats, what does one need to do to get that?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:29 pm
by Jeff
silentneko, you just need to get a little further in your build!! You are close!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:25 pm
by silentneko
But he's following me, lol.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:44 pm
by Fuzz
First and most important I hope things go well for your wife. That can be a nasty thing and take time to fully heal.
I guess the one good thing is the chance to do a little shopping.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:57 pm
by narfi
Fuzz wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:44 pm
I guess the one good thing is the chance to do a little shopping.
She got released today and is at a friend's house sleeping for a few days so she won't have to fly in a bumpy plane. Flight worked out for me to get home to Landon today but no time to shop.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:13 pm
by Jeff
Narfi, very sorry that I missed the issue of your wife!! Very glad she is out of the hospital and I very much hope her recovery is easy and quick!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:25 pm
by TomW1
Narfi glad to hear that your wife is out of the hospital and resting at your friends. Take good care of her.

Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:37 am
by Eric1
Praying all Y'all!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:46 am
by silentneko
I didn't see it either, but hope all will be well soon.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:11 pm
by narfi
Thanks for the thoughts and prayers guys.
The drugs have been tearing her stomach up and she can't keep any food down. Says she would rather the pain than the nausea at this point. I'm back in town taking care of her. Got a hotel so she can rest quieter.

So sitting here all day with nothing to do but think.
I know most people here run fuel, electric and steering and throttle under the sole through chase tubes.
I think I would rather a 100% sealed floor and run everything under the gunwals.(still through tubes I think) Is there any concerns with doing it this way?

Next thing is most people buy or have built fuel tanks under the sole or to fit in compartments.
I think I want to build composite tanks myself and put them under the seats in front of each side consol. What are the main concerns with this approach?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:31 pm
by Jeff
Narfi, very sorry for her!! Sounds terrible!! We wish her a speedy recovery!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:06 pm
by silentneko
narfi wrote: Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:11 pm
So sitting here all day with nothing to do but think.
I know most people here run fuel, electric and steering and throttle under the sole through chase tubes.
I think I would rather a 100% sealed floor and run everything under the gunwals.(still through tubes I think) Is there any concerns with doing it this way?

Next thing is most people buy or have built fuel tanks under the sole or to fit in compartments.
I think I want to build composite tanks myself and put them under the seats in front of each side consol. What are the main concerns with this approach?
Guys only run that stuff under the sole if it's a center console. With a side console the steering and controls are usually ran under the gunnel. Fuel can be too.

As far as the fuel tanks are concerned I don't think you can make a gasoline tank out of fiberglass anymore, just diesel. You can have aluminum ones made to fit if you need, but on smaller boats it's best to center the weight. I looked into it a while back cause I would like to build a glass tank myself, I remember not getting the answer I liked so I'm going with plastic tanks.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:54 pm
by narfi
Well I haven't dug too deep yet but biggest issue is ethonal resistance. I'll have to make sure to use a resin known to be ethonal resistant and perhaps even another coating once done as well.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:40 pm
by Browndog
Coast guard regulations do not allow for a fiberglass composite gas tank, has to be either plastic or aluminum. As SilentNeko indicated, only allowable for diesel and then it is not recommended there either.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:43 pm
by narfi
It was my understanding coast guard didn't regulate amature builds?
I prefer to know why than that some government says so :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:19 pm
by fallguy1000
How are you going to seal the inside of the composite tank from gasoline and ethanol both? Melt down a regular plastic fuel tank and roll it around?

I bought two really nice fuel tanks 64gallons from Moeller on Amazon. Not worth the cash saved, nor the time spent to do in composite. My cost was $275 bucks per tank; free shipping.

There are some things that the bush method doesn't beat. Fuel tanks is one.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:21 pm
by narfi
Money is a good reason.
Sorry if my earlier post seemed confrontational..... that wasnt my intent.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:02 pm
by Fair WX Pilot
Hi Narfi, if you’re dead set on making your own fuel tank you might look to make an aluminum riveted tank as used in lots of light aircraft. Riveted tanks are stronger than welded tanks and easier to make. They are FAA and various other government authorities approved as in an incident they tend to deform usually without leaking where as a welded tank usually splits along the weld. They are also very good in situations where the gas is left in them for long periods between use. You can find details of how to build one online or I can send you the basics if you can’t find it. I must say though having built a few, unless you’re dead set on a specific shape it’s almost certainly cheaper to purchase a ready made one.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:04 pm
by Fuzz
I guess I will swim upstream a little on this. Under ground gas station tanks are built out of fibreglass so I think they can and will work. I do agree that glass tanks are a no-no for production builders but I am not sure that applies to home built boats. Fibreglass tanks built using vinyl ester for diesel are a very good way of doing it. Most production builders do not do it because the cost in time and material is usually less with metal tanks. As for the problems ethanol that is no problem here as we are the only state that does not use it in our gas.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:21 pm
by Browndog
Gas tanks are one of those components that are heavily regulated because of safety and environmental concerns. If you can build a tank that will meet all of the testing requirements and can certify that it does and it won’t leak then have at it.

It was beyond me. I am relying on a tank manufacturer that is equipped to do the testing and has the parts certified to meet the rules so that I can get the boat registered and it can be used safely. Money well spent.

There are lots and lots of rules for permanent tanks.including installation, venting, anti spill, anti siphon, and more.

Portable tanks are a much easier option.

Whatever route you choose, best wishes.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:29 pm
by Fuzz
Saw you on my thread so I thought I would ask you here how is Momma? Did you get her home yet?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:50 pm
by narfi
She is home, and back to teaching preschool against my wishes... She is a tough one :)
Sounds selfish, but I wore myself out going back and forth and staying at the hotel with her and got sick myself, so haven't had time for the boat :/
Hopefully by this weekend we can get some sort of routine back around the house and cleaned up enough to start laying glass.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:54 pm
by Jeff
Narfi, glad she is better but that is just too quick for her to be back teaching!! Hope you get well soon!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:39 am
by TomW1
Narfi do not build your own tank. It requires special epoxy as the usual epoxy will not work with gas and its additives. There have been plenty of FS18's built that use plastic or aluminum tanks. Most put them under the forward deck. Brown dog is correct there are a ton of regulations that need to be met in this day and age. A purchased tank will meet all these and keep you safe. 8O

Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:24 am
by narfi
Finaly got some time on the boat.
2hrs start to finish.
That includes rolling up the glass I had layed out,epoxy priming 1/2, laying down the first side and epoxying it, priming the other 1/2, laying down the second side of cloth and epoxying it, when it started getting sticky we stripped off our gloves and got out before being tempted to touch it one last time and mess something up.
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Random non related bits:
We convinced momma to take this week off and rest and she is actually starting to heal now.... I think preschoolers were too much for that kind of recovery.
28f outside today but 0f now
bought some bitcoin when it was $7400

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:20 am
by Jeff
Looks really good Narfi!! Still a little warm up there??? Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:57 am
by Browndog
Looking good! That would be a good boat name “little bit of coin”

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:09 am
by terrulian
A well-spent couple of hours! Very nice work.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:55 am
by bigyellowtractor
Looking good. Soon be floating

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:28 am
by jtdums
Nice clean lay up on the hull bottom. Well done!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:58 am
by Eric1
Good report all around! Good to see you back at the build. Best wishes to you and the family. :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:40 pm
by narfi
Sanded it all down yesterday with 38grit and got the transom ready to glass.
When I glassed the bottom I wrapped it over the transom 4-5 inches, so sanded that transition smooth and layed a solid layer over the transom and forward on the bottom 24inches.

I had layed a 6ft straight edge across the back and found a fairly uniform 1/8" hook all the way across. The plans allow for up to 1/4" so I am not worried, but going forward with this peice 24" shares the love of the multi layers at the corner over a greater distance.
20180211_172548.jpg
Landon played outside all day.
Momma is convinced she is good enough to work tomorow... im not so sure....
Bitcoin is @ 8400

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:16 am
by Jeff
Narfi, looking really nice!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:35 am
by OrangeQuest
Very nice! Did you put one of your helpers in charge of letting you know when the epoxy is hard? :D

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:47 pm
by TomW1
That is one fine looking boat Narfi.

Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:49 pm
by fallguy1000
Aren't you going to fair it all out?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:13 am
by narfi
fallguy1000 wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:49 pm Aren't you going to fair it all out?
Yes. Why?

I've been thinking a bit about it. I struggled a lot with pinholes on the canoe....
I think after my initial sanding to knock the cotton thread lumps off the top I will brush or squeegee a coat of straight epoxy then while it is still green the first good layer of fairing material.

My thought is that the straight epoxy will work down into the gaps between strands better than the thickened fairing material and eliminate any of those hidden pinholes before I even start.

However before I do that, I need to attach my chines and strakes and rubrails, I don't want to bond them over fairing material.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:44 am
by topwater
First round just use a loose mix of blended fairing filler and press it it in with a plastic squeegee.
Just fill the weave . On the hull sides you will have to go with a thicker blend to get it to hang.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:48 am
by terrulian
I my hands, pinholes can appear in pure epoxy when applied on any surface using any applicator. I'm talented that way. :D

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:13 am
by fallguy1000
I just didn’t understand the comments about the glass thickness. Sort of understood, unless you were not fairing..

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:34 am
by Dougster
Regarding pinholes, another builder, TxDave I think, told me about something I think called Kombi's Super Putty. I have some left down in my shop and will check later on the name. It's an automotive product but not bondo. Anyway it worked great, and more to the point the paint over it has held up for several years now with no trouble. You put a dab on your finger, spread it over pinholes, wait 5 minutes, and sand it of. Presto, no pinhole. I've used it on three builds and never a problem. Quickfair didn't work. I'd fill the pinholes, wait several hours, sand, and the pinholes were often still there.

Dougster

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:27 am
by terrulian
I had this same problem with whatever filler I tried. In the end I had to basically dig out the pinholes with a combination of wire brush and scraping with an awl to get back to an uncontaminated base. Fortunately, there were only one or two of these, very tiny. I finally got it done. I posted photos on the forum and the general consensus was, this is not that uncommon.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:26 pm
by joe2700
I put a sanding drum on my dremel and touch each pinhole with it to open them up. Then they are easy to fill in with your fairing compound of choice. Often they fill up with dust that vacuuming won't touch, which makes filling them with anything tough unless you open them up.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:27 pm
by Jaysen
Work boat finish for the win!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:45 pm
by narfi
fallguy1000 wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:13 am I just didn’t understand the comments about the glass thickness. Sort of understood, unless you were not fairing..
I'm not very good at explaining stuff online :)
The bottom of the boat at the transom has 4 layers of glass(on the outside), 2 layers of tape, 1 layer of biax that covers the entire bottom and wraps around the back, and 1 layer of biax that covers the transom and wraps around the bottom.
This creates somewhat of a 'hook' on the rear planing surface as there is only 1 layer on most of the bottom, but 4 layers at the back that requires fairing out.
I chose to wrap the transom layer further forward than necessary to create kind of a stepped transition of glass layers, which hopefully in theory will make fairing easier.

Does that make sense or just muddy it more? :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:28 pm
by Fuzz
Sounds smart to me and should work well.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:10 pm
by Jaysen
Fuzz wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:28 pm Sounds smart to me and should work well.
This may be a questionable endorsement :P

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:25 am
by narfi
Bought a lightly used table saw from a buddy and set it up in the tent.
I don't think my extention cord is big enough, it doesn't seem to wind up very fast and bogs down easy on just a 2x4. I also discovered a missing tooth, so need to buy a new blade for it.

I did manage to cut a couple triangles to lay on the chine for looks and I think it will work.

Near the transom,
20180219_210718.jpg
20180219_210704.jpg

Near the bow,
20180219_210807.jpg
20180219_210739.jpg
I think I like it better with the 90deg corner out which I think is what silentneco was thinking for his as well.

It is pretty close to flush with the side panel near the transom and angles out a bit at the bow.

Forgot how dusty I had got it in there, I'll need to clean some before doing anything productive.

Momma is doing better but still trying to keep her as quiet as possible. So Landon and I are (trying) to do as much of the cooking and cleaning as possible.

Been just below freezing last few days. Too warm to work outside with more than a hoodie on.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:44 am
by Fuzz
That is some nice looking glass work there Narfi.
Be interesting to see what you work out for the chines.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:15 am
by pee wee
re: the table saw and cord, I managed to burn out the motor in my first table saw by using an undersized cord I got for free (not much of a bargain, was it?). I then bought a 25ft. 12 gauge cord and the replacement motor is still running fine 25 years later. Some of those saws are really underpowered, you could find an outlet and plug it directly in just to see if it's the cord or the saw.

Another suggestion is to get a good blade for it, and pick one with the right amount of teeth for the job. Many people get too many teeth for what they're cutting, and that will slow down the blade. I've found for my use a 10" 40t blade is best for most chores, and a blade like that with ATB or triple chip grind runs roughly $100.

I like the size of the pieces you've cut, looks like they'll function well. You may have to do some hand work with a plane to get the side angles to match up with the hull, or make them smaller and use resin and fillers to create the sides. Looking good, but take care of Momma first!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:49 pm
by TomW1
I agree with pee wee. What HP is your motor on your saw. If it is only a 1HP definitely get a 12GA extension cord. You can also go down to a 24 tooth blade to cut your 2x4's also. https://woodworker.com/8x22t-thin-kerf- ... archmode=2

Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:55 pm
by alanmccabe
Does your saw have a riving blade on, maybe someone in the past has removed it because sometimes they can be a pain. Without one ripping a long piece of 2x4 could bog down the saw.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:48 pm
by Marshall Moser
Riving knives didn't become standard on tablesaws until 2008 in the US. I've never had one with one.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:30 am
by narfi
Jaysen wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:13 pm Oh boy... Narfi's wife let him use the computer unsupervised again.
So I got 10guage underground cable (10/2 + ground) hooked into a 30amp breaker and run out to the tent. (Will have to bury it in the spring) used a scrap of particle board to mount a light switch and outlet box. Still need to ziptie the board to the tent frame, it's just leaning against it for now.

Got a new freud blade as recomended and turned on the table saw....... it started up slowly and then popped the breaker.
I took the motor apart and cleaned it out and put it back together. Plugged it in and popped the breaker. Very frustrated I spent some time googling and took it apart again. The contacts for the centrifugal starting capacitor switch were welded together. I broke them apart and polished them up a bit and put it all back together again.

In the process I broke a mounting bold off and had to drill it out and luckily was able to get it extracted, then lost the set screw for the pully and made one by cutting a bolt down and slotting the shaft to use a standard screwdriver.

Once all together it is running properly now and has good power.

Now I can learn how to use it.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:38 am
by OrangeQuest
Sounds like you went through a lot of trouble to get the saw to work. But you now know all about the inner workings of your saw so should shorten the learning curve. Safety tip: Never reach over the moving blade to grab something that is still on the table. Turn off the saw and wait for it to stop.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:11 am
by pee wee
OrangeQuest wrote: Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:38 am Safety tip: Never reach over the moving blade to grab something that is still on the table. Turn off the saw and wait for it to stop.
I'd add to that: use push sticks, not fingers!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:40 am
by Jaysen
1. Use the bade cover all the time.
2. Use feather or finger boards at the right locations to ensure contact with rib fence.
3. Do not stand directly in line with blade (kick back, debris, and blade parts all make for bad days).
4. Never leave it running to get a new piece to cut. If that blade is spinning, no matter what safety devices are in place, it's ready to seriously hurt someone.
5.
OrangeQuest wrote: Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:38 am Never reach over the moving blade to grab something that is still on the table. Turn off the saw and wait for it to stop.
6.
OrangeQuest wrote: Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:38 am Never reach over the moving blade to grab something that is still on the table. Turn off the saw and wait for it to stop.
7.
OrangeQuest wrote: Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:38 am Never reach over the moving blade to grab something that is still on the table. Turn off the saw and wait for it to stop.
8. Teach Landon the rules and then help him learn to respect the saw so you know he will be safe around it.

My kids used my table saw SUPERVISED (with every safety feature in place) for things they wanted to make by age of 10. Lots of other tools used before then. Just make sure he knows the right way to use it.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:53 am
by fallguy1000
Table saws.

Make sure and adjust the blade down to just above stock. This can prevent digit removal.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:09 pm
by Fuzz
It always amazes me how guys in the bush can make things work. When you can't just run down to the store you learn to solve problems,.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:26 pm
by narfi
Getting started. But got a call and we are heading out To sled and snowboard behind Hondas on the bay.
20180318_172548.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:41 am
by narfi
Got the chines glued down.
2.5"x1.25" triangles
Bow pieces are 5ft long tapered for the front 4ft 4in leaving 8in full size to mate with the full size angles all the way to the transom.
Kerffed every 2 inches which made them pretty flexible, but not flexible enough to hold in place with duct tape so I still had to screw it down every little bit.

Overall I'm pretty happy with how it turned out so far. I will need to fill the kerfs and butt joints and blend in all the irregularities, but it already looks pretty close.
20180320_211929.jpg
20180320_211907.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:09 am
by Fuzz
Rails are looking good there Narfi. Glass work ain't too bad either :wink:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:28 am
by jtdums
How did you end up cutting the taper on the chines (as you approached the bow)?
They look great and appreciate all the build photos.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:36 am
by OrangeQuest
Looking very good!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:19 am
by Browndog
Nice Job!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:27 am
by Jeff
Narfi, really well done!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:40 am
by Bogieman
Looking really good Narfi.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:11 am
by narfi
jtdums wrote: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:28 am How did you end up cutting the taper on the chines (as you approached the bow)?
First off, your daughters(is there an apostrophe plural and possessive?) boats are amazing. My dream is for Landon to enjoy his as much as I know they are and have theirs.

I used a straight edge and drew a line on the cut face.
Then laid it down cut face up and free handed it through the table saw.

I thought about trying to rig up some sort of jig, but couldn't think of a quick easy way, and perfection doesn't matter too much, I'll be filling, sanding, glassing, filling and sanding anyways to make it look good, so an 1/8" give or take off the line was close enough imo. (I think I stayed within less than 1/8" of my line freehanding)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:23 am
by Jaysen
narfi wrote: Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:11 am First off, your daughters(is there an apostrophe plural and possessive?) boats are amazing.
My hick-lish roots and bad edumacation say we should go with daughtereses.

My pedantic half (which is frequently beaten up by my hick-lish half) says "the proper way to write a plural possessive where the last letter is an 's', is with a trailing apostrophe". After the pedantic half escaped from the locker the hick-lish half shoved him in, we found the following written on post-its all over the locker interior

Code: Select all

daughters'
daughters'
daughters'
daughters'
daughters'
Hope that helps.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:26 am
by narfi
Hey!
At least I knew there was such a thing as a plural possessive......

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:30 am
by narfi
For your troubles Jaysen....
A picture of Landon water skiing on the bay with his 'Uncle Greg' (no relation)
20180321_072914.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:37 am
by Jeff
Narfi, that is true cold weather water skiing!! I am sure Landon had a great time!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:12 pm
by Jaysen
narfi wrote: Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:30 am For your troubles Jaysen....
A picture of Landon water skiing on the bay with his 'Uncle Greg' (no relation)

20180321_072914.jpg
All y'all up there need you some mental checkups. That ain't right.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:52 pm
by jtdums
I like the "two utes" (think "My Cousin Vinnie")

Your build is coming along really well. I can't wait to see the rest. Thanks for the compliment on my girls. I think I hit them at the right age. We did little boats (D5 and canoes) when they were smaller so they could play in our cove, and we started after the bigger boats when they were taking their boater certification exams (In Michigan they can drive up to 35hp). It was the perfect motivation.

I'm sure Landon will love the FS when it is all finished.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:30 am
by narfi
Started filling the kerfs with thickened epoxy. They are thirsty...... will take atleast one more pass to get them filled.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:36 am
by OrangeQuest
narfi wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:30 am Started filling the kerfs with thickened epoxy. They are thirsty...... will take atleast one more pass to get them filled.
You know they will be strong!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:49 pm
by cape_fisherman
Your initial hull fairing will go quicker, and easier, if you put on your strakes & intermediates (if you're using them) after. With all those additional pieces of wood on the hull you have smaller blocks to work your fairing board in. Remember, the fairing board needs to move diagonally moreso than up/down & fore/aft. It's easier when you have room to move the board. For attaching the bits & pieces later, you grind down the fairing back to bare glass...then attach. That's how nearly every builder in my neck-of-the-woods does it...and there's one, or a few dozen, of them within a stone's throw.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:18 pm
by narfi
I can see what you are saying, but I plan to glass them down with fiberglass tape, so I will need to be fairing that afterwords as well.
Seems it would be easier to do it once than twice w/ the addition to having to sand down to glass for a good bond.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:55 am
by cape_fisherman
I understand. Yeah, the guys around here fair then grind back to glass...install & glass the chines & intermediates, then fair those. I only assume it's easier for them...but whatever works for you is what works best. Lookin' good up there!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:57 am
by joe2700
narfi wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:18 pm I can see what you are saying, but I plan to glass them down with fiberglass tape, so I will need to be fairing that afterwords as well.
Seems it would be easier to do it once than twice w/ the addition to having to sand down to glass for a good bond.
It's important to remember the difference between fairing the hull and smoothing(ie fairing an individual piece in). I think it would be much harder to fair the hull with anything getting in the way of long even longboard strokes, as the goal is to create an even curve(or line) down the length and across the width of the boat.

After the hull is as fair as you want it and you install other pieces you are trying to fair just the transitions, basically just making it smooth around what you added. If you are happy with the shape of the hull jumping right to adding stuff would save some extra sanding down to glass. If you need to shape the hull I think it's probably much harder with stuff in the way, but still doable I'm sure.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:39 pm
by narfi
the shape is fine, I am happy with that already even with no filler, I have run a straight edge around the areas that need to be straight and eyeballed the curves and everything looks happy to me.
Fairing will just be a matter of filling weave and the transitions where glass overlaps and getting it ready to paint.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:21 pm
by cape_fisherman
joe2700 wrote: Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:57 am
narfi wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:18 pm I can see what you are saying, but I plan to glass them down with fiberglass tape, so I will need to be fairing that afterwords as well.
Seems it would be easier to do it once than twice w/ the addition to having to sand down to glass for a good bond.
It's important to remember the difference between fairing the hull and smoothing(ie fairing an individual piece in). I think it would be much harder to fair the hull with anything getting in the way of long even longboard strokes, as the goal is to create an even curve(or line) down the length and across the width of the boat.

After the hull is as fair as you want it and you install other pieces you are trying to fair just the transitions, basically just making it smooth around what you added. If you are happy with the shape of the hull jumping right to adding stuff would save some extra sanding down to glass. If you need to shape the hull I think it's probably much harder with stuff in the way, but still doable I'm sure.
You are correct, fairing is easier without the "add-ons" in the way...but everyone has a way they want to do it. It's sort of what makes the world go 'round.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:55 am
by narfi
Third pass of filling and I think the Chines are ready to sand down and shape.
Thinking about the strakes..... How far forward should they go? I was thinking 8ft is easy, but maybe not quite long enough?

Split the bottom exactly in 1/3rds with them or have them a little closer to center?

Is there an easy way to taper the front down? It was easy with the chines cutting the side of the triangle off, but with this I want to cut the bottom off..... I'm having trouble picturing the geometry needed to make it work.....

Maybe instead of tapering the front couple of feet it would be easier to go full size the whole way and just round over the front?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:07 pm
by narfi
Thinking more about it, I think I will go a lot longer than 8ft. a lot closer to the front, the main reason I want them is for sacrificial pieces, so longer seems smarter in that respect.

I still want them to look good and behave well in the water though......

How far from center should they be?
Parallel to center, or as a ratio to width?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:26 pm
by narfi
It is a different (bigger) boat, but it looks nice....

https://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.ph ... 4&p=341723

Image

Image

Image

It looks like at the transom he pretty much split the bottom panels in 1/2 with the strakes. (leaving half the bottom between the two, and 1/4 outboard of each)
It looks like they then followed the same distance from the chines (not the center) all the way forward.

Is this a good approach?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:37 pm
by silentneko
I'm skipping them all together after some consideration. The boat in the pics has a more consistent and deeper deadrise, so it benefits greatly from the lifting strakes. Our hulls are variable and shallow deadrise, so getting up and staying on plane aren't an issue. I figure the chines are enough to help with tracking at low speeds. That's just my thoughts YMMV.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:33 pm
by narfi
I am not doing it for lift, I will be abusing it on gravel and boulders and want another sacrificial piece there.
Since I am putting it there, I would like it to look good, and perhaps serve a purpose as well.....

If that makes sense....

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:23 pm
by Fuzz
Not sure if you will ever be using a trailer or not but if so make sure to not put them where the bunks will be. Other than that splitting the difference would look good to me. And yes for your uses putting them on to protect the hull is a good move. I would expect your boat to take more abuse than average.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:12 am
by silentneko
Not a bad idea for rocks and suck, but it will be way more useful in the center down the keel since that's what will likely hit first. I hit oyster bars and beach ofter and the epoxy/graphite on my skiff now keeps it protected well.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:36 pm
by TomW1
Narfi in your planning make sure you plan for your bunks under the stringers. Then place the strakes outside of that, with a skeg down the center and ending about 8" short of the stern. 3-4 coats of epoxy graphite mix will then provide good protection over small rocks and gravel.

Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:27 am
by narfi
With mommas burst appendix a motor is going to be tight so a trailer probably isn't in the books for this year..... is there a standard for trailers to design around or are they varied enough I can just buy a trailer to match sometime down the road?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:09 am
by silentneko
Sorry to hear that. Most trailers are adjustable. At lest the bunks, guides, and winch stand. You just need to buy one in the range. Most come at 15-17ft models, or sometimes 16-18ft.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:28 am
by Marshall Moser
Just don't put the strakes over the stringers, and you can make it work.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:23 am
by narfi
Finally got them cut and glued down!
Will pull the screws tomorow and put another layer of filler over the kerfs and make fillets. Then it's sand and shape and radius for glassing.

Would you guys do one or two layers of tape?
20180407_221930.jpg
20180407_221946.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:41 pm
by narfi
Screws removed, thin epoxy chased down the screw holes and edges filled and radiused with thickened epoxy.
20180408_133618.jpg
20180408_133605.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:06 pm
by Fuzz
Pretty styling looking bottom you have there Narfi.
If it were me I think I would put at least 2 or maybe more layers of tape over the strakes. That area is going to take some wear and tear.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:25 pm
by Bogieman
That's going to be one stout boat! Looks really good.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:04 pm
by narfi
Thats a lot of corners to be sanding..... but im almost there.
I used my router to round off the chines to a 1/2" radius but it wont fit down close enough to the keel or strakes.
I am going to try and build an extended, narrower base for it tonight and round them off as well.

It is hard to know how much to sand before glassing as it is a compromise.... Dont sand enough and lumps will show through the glass and be even harder to fair afterwords, perhaps even causing you to cut into the glass.... however glassing it will cause its own roughness that will need to be faired anyways, so too much sanding is just a waste of time and energy. I hope I have hit the right amount, I guess time will tell.

My plan once glassed is to sharpen the chines and transom but leave the keel and strakes 1/2" radius.
Is there any need or advantage to sharpening the strakes and keel?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:49 pm
by TomW1
No use at all to sharpen the strakes. In a small boat like this they basically have no use. You would need to put an excessive amount of HP on her before they became useful. As far as the keel it should have been left as a 3/4 x 3/4 inch board and the edges rounded slightly to take the fiberglass. It looks like you have a 3/4 triangle which provides a minimum amount of straight line guidance.

I love the look but as far as hydrodynamics you have not helped your self and just added a lot of work you didn't need to. I think you will be fine. Just leave every thing as it is and go ahead and tape it. No need to sharpen anything. It won't improve the hydrodynamics or top speed.

You take care and hope it is warming up there. I had snow flurries yesterday. Yuck. :x Can't work on painting the OD18.

Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:17 pm
by narfi
Muddy spring breakup here... will be pretty ugly for a few weeks but we go on vacation mid May so by the time we get back from our cruise it will be dry and dusty.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:03 am
by Fuzz
Yep it is the muddy time of the year. To tell the truth this is my favourite time of the year :lol: Have fun on the vacation.
Tom is correct when speaking about your keel. That fine edge is going to take a beating every time you run her on shore. I think I would cut some strips of glass to just cover the triangle and glass them on. Maybe something like 3-5 layers. This area needs to be thick enough to stand abrasion.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:21 am
by narfi
I've already planned on glassing them all down.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:41 am
by narfi
Its ugly but the router base worked.
20180418_223712.jpg
20180418_223654.jpg


It's almost ready to glass.....
20180418_223602.jpg

The Chines need their kerfs filled a bit more, rounding the edges uncovered them a bit.
This is the worst spot.
20180418_223635.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:59 am
by Fuzz
The base is a work of art :D
I think the strakes are going to be much better. Good job.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:56 am
by Jeff
Really nice Narfi!! Excellent work!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:52 am
by Bogieman
Very nice Narfi!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:54 am
by Eric1
Build on Bro!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:17 am
by narfi
Last night I sanded down the areas I had filled in the revealed kerfs, and finished shaping/rounding the trailing edges of the chines, strakes and keel for glassing.
Then I laid out and measured and individually rolled 2 layers of tape for each.

Hopefully if nothing comes up I'll be glassing them tonight.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:36 pm
by narfi
Well it always takes longer than I expect. Glad I decided to do it today instead of last night.

Two layers of 12oz tape staggered over each peice.
That ups the count to 6 layers of 12oz on the keel(the original 2 layers of tape plus the overlapped cloth plus these two layers) and 4 layers on the chines.
I was happy with how easily it layed over the radiuses.
20180421_162704.jpg
20180421_162537.jpg
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:53 pm
by glossieblack
That bottom looks the goods! :D

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:31 am
by narfi
Sharpened the chines and transom with wood flour thickened epoxy and duct tape dams. Not as great as I had pictured in my mind but it did 'ok' enough. When it cured enough to pull the tape I went back over it again just in the areas it had sagged through the tape. Will all sand fine and look good, just caused more work than intended.

Then I filled the weave of the tapes for the chines, strakes and keel with fairing mixed epoxy.

Need to sand and fair and sand and fair the bottom till good enough for graphite. Get the graphite on and rubrails installed before I can flip it.

3 weeks till our cruise so hoping to get that far by then....

Took inventory and am low on epoxy. I'll order more this week. I've used 2 rolls of 12oz tape and have 2 left.... think I'll get a couple more of them as well.

7 full sheets of 3/8" plywood.
1/2 sheet long ways 3/8"
4 about 1/4 long ways 1/4"
And a bunch of scraps.

For rubrails..... can straight ripped strips of 1/4" or 3/8" follow the curve of the sheer, or will I have to cut curved pieces? (I am really hoping for the easy answer!)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:39 am
by narfi
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:09 am
by silentneko
I used 1/4" ply strips about 1.5" wide for mine. It's a pain, but the curves are doable without kerfs.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:04 pm
by R00kie
I used straight sections to make my rub rail. I did not think is was too hard to clamp in place. I am thinking of using 1/4" strips to build the spray rails/reverse chines on my FS19 when I get around to building it. I used oak on my FS17 and it required kerfs and was a royal pain to install.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:23 pm
by TomW1
Narfi I think if you look at the How To's they show how to do it. But basicly 1/4 by 1 1/2 works well for most builders. There are two way to do it. 1. Lots and lots of clamps. or 2. Screws that are removed and used over. The previous tech support man that worked here liked this method. Just make sure that your seams do not end up on each other. You do 3 layers.

Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:34 pm
by seaslug
On my 3 builds, FS18, FS14LS, and SK14, I used 3 layers of 1/4" x 1 1/2" Okoume, than for the 4th I used 3/8" Maple, which is rock hard and somewhat difficult to bend into place, but with lots of clamps it was no problem, and I was working alone, without any alignment screws or dowels to keep it in place. The FS14 was the most difficult at the bow because of the extreme bend, but on that one I used a temporary screw to hold it in place until the epoxy cured.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:28 pm
by cape man
On my canoe and SC18, I used 1" ash and mahogany (respectively) without kerfs or steaming. LOTS of clamps! Did run dowels on the SC18 and silicone bronze screws on the canoe.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:34 pm
by narfi
Well sounds like the kind of answers I wanted to hear :)
I wasnt sure since I had cut them curved to match on the hc14.

If I get time I'll probably cut them tonight.

Graduation was today. Biggest graduating class in our villages history. 8 seniors and 4 kindergardners.
2 of the seniors graduated high school and received Associates degrees at the same time o.0

The edges of the bay are open..... Landon and I were looking at the open water this evening thinking about his canoe.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:43 am
by Fuzz
Spring is here :D This afternoon we had Sandhill cranes and geese flying over the house. Spring is here when the geese arrive. Those kids are never wrong :wink:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:31 am
by Jeff
Nice Fuzz and Narfi!!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:37 pm
by narfi
Turned two of my 1/4 sheets of 1/4" into 1.5" strips.
Sheets are 8ft 2in long and the rubrail is about 18ft long.

I cut a few 2ft, 4ft, and 6ft sections and it will work out just about perfectly.

8 - 8 - 2
6 - 8 - 4
4 - 8 - 6
2 - 8 - 8

This will give me a 1" plus glue rubrail.

The plywood is about 2 inches over 8ft, so will have 4-5 inches extra to cut off once done.
I plan on starting at the front and working my way back using temporary screws to hold it in place till the glue cures.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:53 am
by narfi
Got the rubrails on!
4layers of 1/4" makes for 1 inch thick and I cut them just over 1.5" tall. Will see how much will need to be shaved off after its flipped.

The already look much nicer at this stage than the ones I freehand cut for the canoe. (Hopefully that will mean less work finishing :) )

Tanner a young guy got talked into helping. (Even though he was supposed to be studying for his instrument pilots rating). Its him you see in the picture with Landon.

After done I scraped the excess starting to cure epoxy off and layed in a fresh bit to fill any irregularities and built a preliminary fillet with the tongue depresser radius.

We started at the bow. Applied glue to an 8', 6', 4' and 2' pieces and screwed them together at one end with a single screw.
The screwed end was extended past the bow just so the screw wouldn't hit and then cut to shape later. Screwed the first 2ft down then glued and clamped the 4 middle 8ft pieces and worked out way back screwing it down. The back section was easy after that since it is a straight stretch.

Cut off the extra on the front and did the same to the other side.
Ideally I would have liked to "braid" the two sides where they meet at the bow as well as screwed and glued one layer at a time from side to side instead of completing one side before the other. I just couldn't figure out a practical efficient way to do that though and this seemed to work ok.

Will be interesting to see how symmetrical the front 5-8ft is once we have it flipped and out in a larger work area.
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:10 am
by Fuzz
The rub rails look good Narfi. I am sure the sides are really stiffened up too.
It is always good to have some extra hands when doing jobs like that.
PS: I note Landon has his summer low maintenance hair cut. :wink:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:52 am
by Jeff
Really good stuff Narfi!! Let me know when your supplies arrive as they left here around 1:00 PM via USPS yesterday!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:29 am
by Browndog
Looking good!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:16 am
by OrangeQuest
Yes, she is really looking very good.

Not sure which one is which of the two young men but guessing that it would be the younger of the two getting his pilot training? Thinking way up there in Alaska everyone flies airplanes and they start little young learning, like driving a tractor on a farm! :lol:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:27 am
by terrulian
8)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:34 pm
by TomW1
Very nice Narfi.

Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:16 pm
by narfi
Fuzz wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:10 am PS: I note Landon has his summer low maintenance hair cut. :wink:
Well..... about that....
He wanted a Mohawk. So I cut it for him and we got some of the crazy strong hair gel needed to get it to stand up.
I helped him get it all spiked up and ready for school and sent him off, 3hrs later I get a call from the principal that he is being sent home and I need to come pick him up.
The gel was stiff enough that messing with it pulled and itched and he was using it as an excuse to be angry, had asked the teacher to go to the bathroom to wash the gel out but was told he needed to finish his work first.
I show up and he is red faced raging and no reasoning with him. Talk to his teacher and get all the work he needed to do and took him home.
Opened up the bible and read him the verse that says, "if it causes you to sin, cut it off" (rough paraphrase), then marched him into the bathroom and shaved it off. We had all his homework finished by end of lunch and took I took him back to school, since it was over lunch I only missed an hour or so of work.
The joys of parenting :)
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OrangeQuest wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:16 am Yes, she is really looking very good.

Not sure which one is which of the two young men but guessing that it would be the younger of the two getting his pilot training? Thinking way up there in Alaska everyone flies airplanes and they start little young learning, like driving a tractor on a farm! :lol:
Landon is the youngest in that picture and my son. Tanner is the ~20yr old who has about 150hrs flying so far and working on his ratings.
There are 4-5 of the highschoolers who have been flying this last year, it is a way of life here and it is fun to see the younger generation taking the interest and initiative. They have a huge opportunity on what would for others be a very expensive education.
Once our finances have recovered from the motor we hope to buy this summer for the FS17, we will be building Landon's first airplane. Hopefully starting this fall, but realistically probably not starting till next year.
This has been our plan all along, Canoe, then powerboat, then small plane, then family cross country(fast) plane.

Landon is 8, you can take flying lessons at any age, but can not fly solo(learners permit) until you are 16yrs old and cant get your license until 17, so we do have a little time, but would like to get going asap.
I am an aircraft mechanic, and have done a lot of sheet metal work(fabricating and riveting aluminum surfaces) so the wood and composite work on these boats has been a huge learning experience for me. We still aren't set on what the first plane will be. I keep going back and forth between aluminum vs composite and plans vs kit. I am leaning towards aluminum kit for our first build and composite from plans for our second. Landon and I are both partial to amphibious planes(flying boats) and not sure where that falls in our plans exactly...... Time and money :) we arent getting any younger.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:23 pm
by Jeff
Great story Narfi and great plan for Landon!!!!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:32 pm
by OrangeQuest
This could be fun to build and enough room for the whole family and then some. Love the sound of those radial engines! 8)

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view ... ajaxhist=0

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:48 pm
by narfi
Hehe yes. If I was independently wealthy and could afford the fuel......
The dream machine would be an amphibious flying motor-home.

First plane will be targeting an engine size of around 100hp and light enough to fly out of short strips with that much(little) power.
This is the one at the top of our list right now,
http://www.zenithair.com/stolch750/

For comparison, this little guy (who is high up on my watch list for a second build) has 2x 300hp engines,
http://www.gweduck.com/index.html

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:55 pm
by Jeff
Nice plans Narfi!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:06 pm
by Fuzz
Two of the neatest planes I have ever flown in were a Goose and a turbo Beaver on floats.
Living where you do an airplane is a direct replacement for a pickup. And every man needs a pickup you know :wink:
Great story about Landon's hair. Just a little hic-up alone the way..................they will happen :lol:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:13 pm
by OrangeQuest
narfi wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:48 pm Hehe yes. If I was independently wealthy and could afford the fuel......
The dream machine would be an amphibious flying motor-home.

First plane will be targeting an engine size of around 100hp and light enough to fly out of short strips with that much(little) power.
This is the one at the top of our list right now,
http://www.zenithair.com/stolch750/

For comparison, this little guy (who is high up on my watch list for a second build) has 2x 300hp engines,
http://www.gweduck.com/index.html
I wasn't to far off on the PBY!! 8)

The stolch750 looks interesting. My wife got me in a plane once. Now she is my ex-wife!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:17 pm
by narfi
Well the gweduck has two 300hp engines, the Catalina has a pair of 1200hp engines.......
Honestly I cant afford to pump fuel into the the 300s anytime soon on my budget......

With a lifetime supply of fuel, my options for dream builds would really open up :P

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:29 pm
by narfi
Sanded yesterday and today till momma said enough.... pretty noisy for inside:(

Have most of the power sanding done for first pass, probably another day or two by hand around all the pieces before the first full coat of fairing material.
I am hoping not to be to anal on the bottom(play on words?) Since it will be rolled with graphite never seen.

Took Landon out for our first day of the year on the water. Posted pictures in the HC14 splashed thread.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 1:22 am
by narfi
Finished sanding and swept the worst of the dust up.
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Pictures make it look better than in person, but I still tried to show the areas needing most work.

The chines and transom need more filling and sharpening. I used duct tape as a dam for the initial fill and the thickened epoxy sagged through a lot requiring quite a bit of sanding and rounded surfaces instead of flat.

I am really happy with the sacrificial keel and strakes, they will require nearly no fairing beyond the few areas of weave needed filling after the first coat.

I really think a bit of work before laying up the glass can save a LOT of work after...... it's easy to tell yourself that its wood and epoxy, you can't screw it up and anything can be fixed with some fill and sanding. This is true, however its easier, much easier, not to have to fix in the first place.

Now what prep did I not do?......
The sides...... two things I should have done differently.
1. I should have done an initial coat of either neat or fairing mix before any sanding. Now there is dust in all those little crevices, and I am guessing this is the source to all those pinholes I fought for so long on the canoe.
2. I should have taped and papered the sides off before laying up the chine strips. I ended up with lots of epoxy runs and about 2hrs of unnecessary sanding.

Any thoughts on cleaning the dust out of the crevaces in the weave without an air gun?
---------------------

Yesterday was Landons last day of school so we woke up this morning and it was snowing. I didn't wake him before going to work...... what kind of summer break is it with snow and mud?..... He still played outside all day and it wasnt too bad this afternoon.

The channel in the ice on the bay we canoed through Sunday was open enough today to launch a float plane for its first flight of the year.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:27 am
by OrangeQuest
Really looking good!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 8:07 am
by Jeff
Narfi, the boat is really looking great!! Hard to believe you are still getting snow up there!! Nice to hear a float plane took of though, good sign for Spring soon!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 8:29 am
by Jaysen
One comment the CL would email me very time I’d start to get down on my build being pretty...
“cracker Larry” wrote: The fish don’t care.
Unless you’re building a show or high performance boat, make sure you aren’t overthinking the need for Eric1 level finish.

Unless you want sexy. Then you best make it baby a$$ smooth.

Also, how long do you think that bottom is going to be all pretty with you beaching it on rocks? Think about it.

I think your build is looking great. Build on!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:41 am
by Capt UB
You guys are making me think I should just leave the hull as is and go fishing....

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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 10:08 am
by joe2700
For the little holes and crevices that trap dust leading to pinholes, I touch them all with a sanding drum on the dremel to open them up then a smear of fairing compound will do the trick. They are only a problem when the opening is so small filler won't go in.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 12:31 pm
by Jaysen
Capt UB wrote: Thu May 03, 2018 9:41 am You guys are making me think I should just leave the hull as is and go fishing....

Why not?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 1:48 pm
by narfi
OrangeQuest wrote: Thu May 03, 2018 7:27 am Really looking good!
Thanks! its fun :)
Jaysen wrote: Thu May 03, 2018 8:29 am One comment the CL would email me very time I’d start to get down on my build being pretty...
“cracker Larry” wrote: The fish don’t care.
Unless you’re building a show or high performance boat, make sure you aren’t overthinking the need for Eric1 level finish.

Unless you want sexy. Then you best make it baby a$$ smooth.

Also, how long do you think that bottom is going to be all pretty with you beaching it on rocks? Think about it.

I think your build is looking great. Build on!
Well, I am hoping for a compromise between your idealistic approach and Erics haphazard approach.......
I want to be realistic, however, I will always know even if no one else can see it. I spent what for me is a lot of money to build this, and I want to take care to make it worth while in the end. There are plenty of ugly old boats around I could have bought much cheaper.
Capt UB wrote: Thu May 03, 2018 9:41 am You guys are making me think I should just leave the hull as is and go fishing....

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It depends on your goals.... I watched a video of a guy yesterday who cut a sheet of plywood into 5 peices and nailed them together with silicone in the seams, slapped some paint on it and launched it, couldnt have been more than a couple hours total work into it, and he was on the water.....
Your boat is definitely much better than that at this stage, and while I think you should get paint on it for UV protection, if you only care about the experience and not the looks, then why not just paint and go? You are building it for you, for your enjoyment, what part do you enjoy? What will give you the greatest joy?
Here is a quote I read yesterday on the homebuilt aircraft forum,
Who cares if it's better if what you use works. Boat people are Norm Abrams in it for the wood working. They don't build one boat, they build 15. Airplane builders who want to fly just want something that works, safe, and easy. Better is always a perception of all components. If you want to research all the worlds epoxy specs to your satisfaction to start building, do it, or follow the crowd and get your plane built.
The guy was generalizing something I dont think the stereotypes match the groups he was labeling, but the idea is still the same.
You can build for beauty, spend hours on hours of nitpicking every exact thing to make a work of art, but that has nothing to do with seaworthiness (or airworthiness) of your build, just how it looks.
It is important to ensure you make a safe machine, that the structure is sound and the components are solid, beyond that though is entirely up to you and what you desire from the experience.
Don't build for the judgement of others, build for yourself and you will be happy.
joe2700 wrote: Thu May 03, 2018 10:08 am For the little holes and crevices that trap dust leading to pinholes, I touch them all with a sanding drum on the dremel to open them up then a smear of fairing compound will do the trick. They are only a problem when the opening is so small filler won't go in.
Thanks, I will remember that.
Jeff wrote: Thu May 03, 2018 8:07 am Narfi, the boat is really looking great!! Hard to believe you are still getting snow up there!! Nice to hear a float plane took of though, good sign for Spring soon!! Jeff
Thanks! Your shipment arrived yesterday, thanks for that as well :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 1:58 pm
by Jeff
Excellent Narfi!!!!! USPS does a really good job for us!! Just sent a 54 LB Box to Japan via USPS!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 3:45 pm
by Fuzz
When I was commercial fishing boats were work tools to me. The best looking boats were those that were deck loaded with fish. One time I deck loaded my boat and then ended up filling the house full of fish too. I think that was the best she ever looked :lol:
The boats we are building are not work boats and you want to be proud of what you built. If you do it half assed at this point you will regret it later on. It does not need to be a work of art but I would try to make it decent.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 4:28 am
by narfi
First coat of fairing applied.
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 5:42 am
by Capt UB
Damn thst looks nice. What fairing mix are you using?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 7:44 am
by narfi
Capt UB wrote: Fri May 04, 2018 5:42 am Damn thst looks nice. What fairing mix are you using?
The mixed blend from the guys here at BBC.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 7:53 am
by Jeff
Again Narfi, very nice work!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 3:11 am
by narfi
Finished sanding the bottom.
Cut a hole in the plastic and opened the garden door and blew as much dust outside as possible waited 10 minutes and did it again 4 times.
Closed the doors and taped the plastic back up. Once the residual dust has settled used warm water and a new dishwashing scotchbrite pad to scrub the entire surface down.

Ready for to start applying graphite tomorrow.
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I am happy with it so far. Not up to Jason's standards but much smoother than Eric's........
I don't think the overlap seems will show through it will be interesting to see how it turns out. There isnt any seaworthy concern, only potential cosmetic on the bottom where no one will see and will be dinged and scraped up soon anyways.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 5:40 am
by Capt UB
Looks great... Graphite/epoxy bottom will Pop out at you when done! How are you going to do the graphite bottom?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 1:06 pm
by narfi
Capt UB wrote: Tue May 08, 2018 5:40 am Looks great... Graphite/epoxy bottom will Pop out at you when done! How are you going to do the graphite bottom?
Same as I did my hc14.
6" high density foam rollers like they sell here at BBC.
I had forgotten to get any do a buddy picked them up for me at home depot. I asked him to look for 12" as well but he couldn't find any.

I'll use medium hardener at about 70f (still building inside my wife's dining room)
This is the one area I would have preferred slow, but I've been using fast and should be ok with medium I think. Will just work fast.

Mixing small batches I will roll the keel side to side, then working just one side roll the strake also side to side, then the flat between keel and strake for and aft, then the chine side to side then the flat between Strake and chine fore and aft. Then repeat on the other side, hopefully fast enough the keel hasn't started kicking yet and can still roll/flow together.

Spring is here even if still muddy in places.
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Fly to Anchorage Friday and Texas early Saturday, board the cruise ship sunday.
If nothing goes wrong with the graphite I am on schedule. Will do 3 or 4 coats at half day intervals. Not intending to sand between.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 3:25 pm
by Jeff
Narfi, good photo!! Big pup!! Safe trip and have a great time!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 10:36 pm
by TomW1
Have a great time Narfi, make sure you take the sun screen. 8)

Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 1:18 am
by narfi
Good news, bad news.

If I had more time I would have spent another week or two sanding the bottom.
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First coat on, two more to go.
Used 5x 6oz batches.
4 pumps resin 2 pumps hardener and 4 heaping as high as possible plastic spoons of graphite each.
Put the epoxy in front of an electric space heater for 10 minutes before mixing to make it as runny as possible.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 2:17 am
by Fuzz
Give it a light sanding to knock off the big uglies and lay the next coat on it.
I believe it will get better and the bottom coating does not need to be perfect :wink:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 2:41 am
by Jaysen
Wet sand it to make it easier on yourself. Dry sanding is a PITA.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 6:06 am
by Capt UB
narfi wrote: Wed May 09, 2018 1:18 am Good news, bad news.

If I had more time I would have spent another week or two sanding the bottom.

20180508_211711.jpg

First coat on, two more to go.
Used 5x 6oz batches.
4 pumps resin 2 pumps hardener and 4 heaping as high as possible plastic spoons of graphite each.
Put the epoxy in front of an electric space heater for 10 minutes before mixing to make it as runny as possible.

Why are you using pumps? I found it much easier to pour into mixing cups. Plus I found some pump heads not measuring right! They (the pumps) were from West Systems. I did start out using them, had one brake on me.... Started pouring then on.

Why wait to put coats on of graphite/epoxy mix, I waited something like 1/2 hour or more between coats. Used the same rollors as you did, but I was using MarinEpoxy slow hardener. In the end four coats and no sanding!

Wet sanding only, much easier and safer I am told.

Came out hard as steel, very black and slick!
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 7:18 am
by OrangeQuest
Because I weigh everything I also tossed the pumps. I even weigh dry stuff for more consistent mixing. Learned that when learning to bake. Sifting, packing, leveling is no where close to the same as things always weigh the same. Cheap food scales are easy to come by and most have tare features.
Temperature and moisture are hard the control verses nether changes the weight of something.


Looking good!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 8:50 am
by Capt UB
We only used scales back in the 70's and 80's in Miami..... ;0

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:33 am
by terrulian
We only used scales back in the 70's and 80's in Miami..... ;0
Were you building boats back then? :D :doh:

The reason for wet sanding is that the graphite dust will get everywhere and makes a mess if you dry sand. With wet sanding it is not a problem.

Unless you are racing sailboats seriously, it doesn't matter how mirror-like the bottom is.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 11:29 am
by Capt UB
terrulian wrote: Wed May 09, 2018 9:33 am
We only used scales back in the 70's and 80's in Miami..... ;0
Were you building boats back then? :D :doh:

The reason for wet sanding is that the graphite dust will get everywhere and makes a mess if you dry sand. With wet sanding it is not a problem.

Unless you are racing sailboats seriously, it doesn't matter how mirror-like the bottom is.
scales.....
Grateful Dead days...1970"s JOB papers....
Miami Vice days.....1980's Scarface days....

1990's we were ruffing up the One Design bottoms for speed... wet sand 220, just enough to hold the water molecules to the hull... wet on wet is faster! Damn the shit we did to get just a 1/4 knot!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 12:35 pm
by OrangeQuest
terrulian wrote: Wed May 09, 2018 9:33 am
We only used scales back in the 70's and 80's in Miami..... ;0
Were you building boats back then? :D :doh:

The reason for wet sanding is that the graphite dust will get everywhere and makes a mess if you dry sand. With wet sanding it is not a problem.

Unless you are racing sailboats seriously, it doesn't matter how mirror-like the bottom is.
I found that adding a little dish soap to water (bucket or spray bottle) will help break the water tense and the sand paper doesn't clog as easy. Then when done sanding a little clean water and ready for next coat.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 12:53 pm
by narfi
Woke up this morning and took a look at it.
It is nearly the same as first coat was on the HC14, and I was ok with it.
Even more so now, even stored upside down with the bottom up looking at me, I am happy with it and the scratches and scrapes its already gotten....

Image

I do not plan on storing the FS17 upside down, I do not plan on shaving in the reflection off the bottom....... :)

The sides and interior will have much more detail given, and a much more 'anal' approach, but for the bottom, I am not too worried as it is.
After inspection this morning, the lumps were not because of lack of sanding, but induced either with bits of foam, or lumps of graphite. (thus why identical to this stage of the canoe even though I spent more time into less surface sanding and fairing on it)

Pumps vs. Weight
Round one goes to the masses who swear by weighing
Round two goes to the simplicity of using the pumps, and being (more) difficult to screw up when tired, 2 drinks in, distracted, or all three. (I work a full time job, a part time job, am a parent and a home owner(mortgage holder), I don't have the luxury of working in a laboratory with a clear head and lots of room, My boat building time is borrowed from time I should be sleeping)
Round three and the knock out goes to personal experience with over 13gal of epoxy mixed on two boats so far in varying meteorological conditions with zero (0) issues.

I do not think it is black or white, and I do not think weighing it is wrong, but we must each do what we are most comfortable with in our quest for safe and efficient methods of doing things.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 1:34 pm
by OrangeQuest
narfi wrote: Wed May 09, 2018 12:53 pm
I do not think it is black or white, and I do not think weighing it is wrong, but we must each do what we are most comfortable with in our quest for safe and efficient methods of doing things.
I agree 110%.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 2:29 pm
by terrulian
After inspection this morning, the lumps were not because of lack of sanding, but induced either with bits of foam, or lumps of graphite.
I think the main approved way to get rid of those lumps is with Photoshop.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 2:31 pm
by narfi
terrulian wrote: Wed May 09, 2018 2:29 pm
After inspection this morning, the lumps were not because of lack of sanding, but induced either with bits of foam, or lumps of graphite.
I think the main approved way to get rid of those lumps is with Photoshop.
It is usually easier to hold the camera more than a foot from the surface...... But I am working in a tight area, so may have to try the photoshop idea......

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 2:32 pm
by Fuzz
terrulian wrote: Wed May 09, 2018 2:29 pm
After inspection this morning, the lumps were not because of lack of sanding, but induced either with bits of foam, or lumps of graphite.
I think the main approved way to get rid of those lumps is with Photoshop.
:wink: :lol: :lol:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 3:05 pm
by OrangeQuest
Fuzz wrote: Wed May 09, 2018 2:32 pm
terrulian wrote: Wed May 09, 2018 2:29 pm
After inspection this morning, the lumps were not because of lack of sanding, but induced either with bits of foam, or lumps of graphite.
I think the main approved way to get rid of those lumps is with Photoshop.
:wink: :lol: :lol:
8O :lol: :lol:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 5:44 pm
by Capt UB
Shifted graphite a few times?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 6:12 pm
by narfi
Capt UB wrote: Wed May 09, 2018 5:44 pm Shifted graphite a few times?
Went home for a long lunch and applied 2nd coat after about 60 seconds worth of sanding the biggest lumps.

Paid close attention this time and it is definitely foam chunks.
Happy to report though, I don't care.
They are small enough and where no one will see and best of all I'm going on vacation!

The same quantity of mix went further this time or should I say thicker since I did use the same amount. Amazing the difference between roughed up surface and Simi smooth surface for what It will soak up.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 7:44 pm
by Jeff
Narfi, you guys have a great cruise!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 1:12 am
by narfi
Jeff wrote: Wed May 09, 2018 7:44 pm Narfi, you guys have a great cruise!!! Jeff
Thanks! Expecting some fun and sun.

Got the third coat rolled on, it's good enough but I have enough graphite still so I will do a fourth.
The three coats used most of 2 bags of graphite. I bought 3, used less than 1/2 on the canoe, so after this 4th coat I'll not have much left over, maybe enough for minor repairs for the first year......

Camera held 4ft above the transom
20180509_210406.jpg



Close up.
20180509_210417.jpg




And glamor shot as requested
20180509_210459.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 1:19 am
by Jaysen
As a previous “survivor”, I recommend the unlimited drink package. At 6am you find your chair, tell “Emily” to keep you well sauced, and then enjoy yourself. I will warn you, any place called “Señor Frogs” is a good way to miss your boat. I had to be guided to the security checkpoint and then the cruise line had to come and collect me. The Mrs doesn’t remember a thing. What we called “doing it right”.

Loved
That
Cruise!!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 1:26 am
by narfi
I've met you!
2 cruises ago..... talking to you through the devider on our cabins balcony as we were pulling out. Whole day at port and you hadn't even made it off the pier. Senior frogs was on the end of the pier and you spent the entire day there then got back on the ship.....
Was fun yelling at the passengers on the ship coming in as we were going out with you.

Seriously though the drinks package is a toss up for us, we don't drink that much and if we buy it then we feel like we have to justify it, if we dont buy it then we are counting pennies on each drink we buy.

I think this makes our 4th and Landons 2nd cruise so far.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 1:43 am
by Jaysen
Get the drink package with internet included. Only need 9 drinks per day (coffee, alcohol, soda) to pay off (I recommend starting early and making all 9 liquor with the goal of every drink after lunch “costing them”.

Most of the ships will let the unlimited guy get a beer, a soda and a bottle of water all at the same time. I managed a double, a beer, a soda, 2 bottles of water in one go (according to Luis, whose hame was likely less pronouncable until drink number 12, it was easier to just give it all to me than risk me getting hurt trying to navigate the poolside deck)(if any pretty young thing behind the bar offers you a “double kraken colada” you need to do the following: take it immediately, sit down without drinking any, drink it, remain seated until things START to spin/sway; what you think is the floor isn’t, it’s the wall, medics may become involved).

To my credit, I’m a happy drunk. Not amorous, just happy. Once Louis and Emily met me sober. After a quick conference they decided they would not let that happen again. It was declared “in the interest of the rest of the passengers”. They continued this policy right through the hurricane. I couldn’t understand why it was such a big deal. It was the only time I WASNT hitting the walls.

I get the feeling CL and I would have had waaaaay to much fun together. What a loss.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 1:49 am
by Fuzz
I went to the Señor Frog's in Puerto Vallarta one time. As I was walking into the place at 1300 a gal I had meet came out and thought I needed my tonsils checked. Walked through the door and found people dancing on the tables. Thought this place must get crazy at nights. First drink made my nose numb so I sort of understood the cause 8O

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 1:51 am
by Fuzz
Jaysen, you Peter and CL would have needed your own personal bail bondsman.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 5:45 am
by OrangeQuest
Hull bottom looking good! Enjoy your cruise!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 5:55 am
by Capt UB
We need a photo page of Bateau's boat bottoms...

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 1:10 pm
by narfi
4th coat on.
Its finished.
20180510_090632.jpg
Results..... I am ok with it.
Yes it could have been better but not without an emense amount of hours put into it. I think for the bottom this compromise on aesthetics is acceptable.
I wont be rolling anything up where people can see and I will fair better and be more pleased with sprayed paint

Will flip when we get back from vacation.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 1:39 pm
by Jeff
Narfi, Looks fine, it is the bottom!! Have a nice vacation!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 2:50 pm
by Capt UB
Looks fine. I did what you did, painted just high enough. I think it was 1/2" over the Chine.

Have fun, don't fall overboard...

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 2:59 pm
by narfi
Capt UB wrote: Thu May 10, 2018 2:50 pm Looks fine. I did what you did, painted just high enough. I think it was 1/2" over the Chine.

Have fun, don't fall overboard...
My current plan is to paint down to the corner, but I left myself the option of masking a 3/4" strip as well, so I will see what is easiest to make look good when the time comes :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 3:06 pm
by cape man
It looks great from here!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun May 13, 2018 1:08 pm
by narfi
Signing out.
Be back in a week.
20180513_120421.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun May 13, 2018 4:15 pm
by Jeff
Great photo of Landon!!! Enjoy the cruise!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:27 am
by narfi
Vacation was fun!
Highlight for me was boating on a river through the jungle in Belize. In two hours on the river we saw monkeys, iguanas, crocodiles, manatees, dolphins, and tons of birds.
Cruise ship got back to Texas on a Sunday morning and our flight out was that afternoon...... Flight was delayed a bit and some genius spent the time drinking..... about 30 minutes after we took off they turned the plane around so cops could pull the guy off the plane for causing problems.
So we missed our connecting flight in Dalas and Amarican Airlines screwed up rebookings repeatedly for two more days.... we finally got into Anchorage Wednesday night(instead of sunday)

Hit the ground running and been working long hours since getting home so no time for the fs17.
Got it flipped today though and cleaned the house out so momma has her dining room back!

The flip was uneventful. I built a cradle onto of the bottom place. 4 guys I work with came over and helped so 5 of us total.

I pulled the garden doors off their hinges and we took the cradle out first and set on the leveled platform in the tent.

Then we lifted the boat up off the jig. Came up easy, wasntglued down anywhere, just a few pieces of duct tape stuck which ripped easily.

The jig was in the way of getting the boat out the door though. So we tipped the beat up on its side and we unscrewed the jig from the floor and pulled it out the door and over the railing. Then we pulled the boat out the door and over the railing, it was a tight fit but went no problem. Once on the lawn we flipped it over and set it on the cradle in the tent.

Start to finish was maybe 15min, it went quick.

Landon wanted in right away and started pulling tape off the seams.
20180610_165944.jpg
Probably another evening or two getting everything out away and tidied up in the tent then hopefully start putting some of this late daylight to use.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:43 am
by OrangeQuest
That is some good news! Bet the Wifey is happy to get the remodel started too!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:31 am
by Fuzz
Ok so now you can work till after midnight with no lights it is a good time to make some progress :wink:
Glad you had a good vacation. That is just the ticket for a brain reset :lol:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:33 am
by Jeff
Narfi, Glad you guys had a great vacation!! You gotta love the airlines!! Loved my trips to Belize as well!! Cool hair cut on Landon!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:44 am
by Eric1
Glad the flip went well! Now get to work!! :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:03 pm
by narfi
Jeff wrote: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:33 am Loved my trips to Belize as well!! Cool hair cut on Landon!! Jeff
Its my second try learning to cut his hair. Kind of fun, but not wise to start late at night when both of you are short on patience....... We were both struggling at the end, him with the itches, and me with the squirms :P
Recognize the pattern?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:05 pm
by Jeff
Absolutely!! Nice work!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:16 am
by narfi
Sanded the glue squirted out the rubrails so I wont cut or snag myself while working on the boat.

Landon had all the duct tape pulled inside, so I sanded all the bleed through glue on the seams.
20180613_220901.jpg
20180613_220848.jpg
Lesson learned.... I should have cleaned up the clamping board on the transom more before assembly.

Tomorow I'll finish cleaning up the transom and bottom of clamping board. Then I will clean out the sawdust and apply fillets to all the interior seams in preparation for taping.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:37 am
by OrangeQuest
Doing a good job cleaning everything up. Have fun with the taping. :D

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:09 am
by Capt UB
Looks good.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:43 pm
by Eric1
You and Landon are making it look easy!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:52 pm
by narfi
Thanks guys :)
Eric1 wrote: Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:43 pm You and Landon are making it look easy!
Well.....We are building a smaller boat than you are :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:56 pm
by Fuzz
Helps that they are a lot younger than us Eric :cry:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:07 pm
by Eric1
True Fuzz. :(

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:04 pm
by Capt UB
2018-06-14-18-04-08--638209429.jpg
2018-06-14-18-04-08--638209429.jpg (8.21 KiB) Viewed 2377 times

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:47 am
by narfi
Cleaned up under the clamping board and rounded over the corner with a 1/2" round over bit.

Vacuumed the boat out then blew out all the remaining dust.
Mixed epoxy/wood flour and filleted all the inside seams and under the clamping board.

Will touch up any rough spots tomorow with the 6" orbital, clean again and be ready for taping.
20180614_214121.jpg
20180614_214152.jpg
20180614_214214.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:07 am
by narfi
Meanwhile my son has built his own work station.
He measured and marked everything for his table and stool and I cut on his lines and he screwed and nailed them together.

I cut up some scraps from the formers and mixed him a cup of epoxy/wood flour and he glued and taped together the birdhouse while I was working on the boat.
20180614_220248.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:25 am
by gonandkarl
Hi,
Your hull is really nice while I only always dreamed of a round over bit because they are expensive here but that is the difference between a guy who can work with tools and one like me who sort of managed to build boats with hardly any or old ones. I envy you that your son takes an interest in building also something with his hands. When my son was a kid I could not even encourage him to cut the lawn or do anything strenuous. Does not matter he had his swim sport and now going onto 40 he very skilfully puts together his own bicycles and rides them across Europe.
Wish you good progress with your FS17 and lots of joy with the future boat builder.
Greetings from Karl

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:28 am
by Fuzz
Boat looks good there Narfi. Your son is going to be a typical bush kid. Totally self sufficient and a master of many crafts. That is going to be a huge blessing later in his life :wink:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:10 am
by narfi
gonandkarl wrote: Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:25 am Greetings from Karl
You have more experience than me in parenting and boat building. I cant wait to see your beautiful boat in the water.

I think different kids are wired differently, but with mine I can not teach or direct him. He is too smart and too stuborn.

So all I can do is present him with as many opportunities to learn as I can and show him my successes and failures. Then hope he chooses a wise path.

I love competition and sports, but he has zero interest in sports. I am an introvert and struggle when forced to converse more than x amount per day or be around too many people, but he loves talking and making friends and being around people.

I want to build boats and airplanes with or around him, I dream many things for him. But ultimately he isnt me, he will have to find his own way, his own carrier, his own hobbies, his own way of life. Hopefully I can equip him with enough knowledge and experience to know what that is when he finds it.

It sounds like your son has found his way and that is a favorable reflection on you. And he has given you a granddaughter (im assuming it's his daughter in your pictures) to play in your boat with you.

Life is good :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:42 am
by narfi
Sanded all the fillets down.
Was only 55f so decided to wait till a warmer day to lay the tapes. Was summer just a couple days ago and 90+ in the tent....

Oh well, back to reading about boats and planes :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:59 am
by cape man
Tampa Bay water was 93 F back in the Mangroves! :help:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:46 am
by narfi
Finaly a warm enough day I could tape the inside seems.

I had what I thought was a genius idea. I cut stirsticks 2, 3, and 4 inches long to use as a pen guide for marking the lines for where I wanted the tape.

Got done and took a picture to post and realized the measuring straight edge I used for reference is two inches wide and I could have just used it for most of the lines......
20180623_212337.jpg


Taping went smoothly. I overlapped the double keel tapes where the four panels meet at the bow because I wasnt sure how well it would play into the curve(turned out very easy and no worries) and because I figured it wouldn't hurt to have a little extra strength there since I had fought the spring pressure so much when putting it together. The chine tapes overlap there as well and so thinking about it now I should have just run them the full length and now worried about it.


20180623_212406.jpg
20180623_212434.jpg
Took me from 5 to 9pm for marking the lines and laying out cutting and rolling the tapes then applying them.

It's probably a good thing I hadn't measured and cut the full size cloth already. I was really tempted to keep going, I was really enjoying seeing progress.

The heart is willing but the back was saying it's a bad idea. Plus I've got too much grey in my beard to be pulling all nights any more....

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:49 am
by Jeff
Narfi, really nice work Friend!!! Looks great and really clean work!!! Only one question, where was Landon?? Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:50 am
by silentneko
Looks good, wait until you do the wide glass, your back will feel great!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:09 pm
by narfi
Jeff wrote: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:49 am Only one question, where was Landon?? Jeff
We got a new roof so our TV dishes were off and took a couple weeks till we got them re aimed. He was watching his favorite show Gravity Falls....

Funny how when he has easy access he would rather be outside, but take it away a few weeks he would rather watch than work on the boat o.0

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:15 pm
by Jeff
Ok and understand!!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:58 pm
by narfi
Got called into work twice, mowed out tundra/hayfield of a lawn, went to a going away party, and took Landon and a friend down to the bay with his canoe for a while yesterday......
So I didnt get anything done on the boat, the tent was up over 100 though, so I know the tapes are well cured!

I have been thinking.....
The layout for the motorwell bulkhead and the floor/sole.

It was my intent to run the sole all the way to the transom fully glassed with foam under, then build the builkheads on top of that.
Is there a need to have a lower bilge are there? or am I ok with this plan?

I plan on a fairly simple layout so hopefully it will not be too much over weight. I also plan on grooving 2x1s ontop of the stringers and bulkheads instead of gluing 1x1s along the top sides of them, this will raise the sole 1/2" or so.
I really like the concept of self bailing and that is part of what made me love these boats and convinced me to build one. An open area below the waterline seems counter to that idea......

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:57 pm
by narfi
underMotorwell.jpg
With something like this cutout of the motorwell bulkhead. Then there is no need for tubes or anything, the water drains back to the plug which can easily be removed from inside under the motorwell?
Advise welcome. please :) Trying to wrap my head around this area.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:45 pm
by silentneko
That set up is fine as long as you aren't storing it in the water for days on end, or running in rough conditions. I would have 2 bilge pumps if I went that route again on separate float switches staggered.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:47 pm
by narfi
This boat will never see a dock or anchor.......
Always beached or on the trailer when not in use.....
No need for pumps in this case right?

(I think this is where I am getting confused, the use is just so much different than others)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:58 pm
by silentneko
The pump isn't there for a little splaster water or rain. It's there in case something serious happens. For example you hit a floating log and crack the hull. The bilge pump will keep the water at bay until you notice the pump is on and can get to the dock or beach. Or you get swamped by an @$$#*/= in a larger boat, and now your skiff is to heavy to get on plane so you can pull the plug (happened to me twice). For the $50 the bilge pump will cost it's just cheap insurance to me.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:00 pm
by Jaysen
You want a pump no mater what your use is. If you are on the water and water starts to ingress... turn the pump on.

Think about it.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:02 pm
by Jaysen
Can you pull a plug if both sides are under water? Think swamped and bung under the water line.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:03 pm
by narfi
Jaysen wrote: Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:02 pm Can you pull a plug if both sides are under water? Think swamped and bung under the water line.
Sure, why not?
My process for borrowing a similar sized aluminum skiff right now.....
Me: "Could I borrow your boat for 5 minutes to run across the bay real quick and check something?"
Answer: "Sure, but i havent bailed it out in a 'few' days, so you will need to do that first"
I get down there and the boat is filled with water to the top of the transom.
I reach my arm down and pull the plug, then start looking for a bucket to help speed up the process.
30 minutes later I have found a bucket and got the water inside the boat down to the level of the water in the lake and put the plug back in and continue bailing.
I use it the boat for 5 minutes and then the owner goes out fishing for the evening in a freshly bailed boat......

Would have been easier and quicker to take landons canoe across and back.

The whole reason I picked this boat is because I don't want to continue that tradition........

silentneko wrote: Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:58 pm The pump isn't there for a little splaster water or rain. It's there in case something serious happens.
Ok, I can understand this, and it makes sense.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:33 pm
by OrangeQuest
We have one on our 15.5' square back. It's only a 500gph but last two times out it was put to a lot of use. Small lawn tractor battery at walmart for $20 or $30 bucks lasts 4 or 5 hours of continuous use. The battery also powers the nav lights and a 55w flood light.

It also comes in handy when we are pulling the boat out of a steep bank and the transom goes under. No fun trying to pull a canoe up the bank with an extra 15 gallons of water and then all the gear. After a day of log jam clearing it could have enough wood chips to build another boat!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:00 pm
by narfi
Layed out the the cloth last night and marked where it will go and rolled it up.
Had trouble laying it in the bow so cut it about 2ft short and will use smaller pieces up there.
If you remember I rounded it quite a bit instead of a straight line. This makes it a pretty deep compound valley to lay the cloth into from the inside.

Ready for the next warm day to lay it down with epoxy.

The first side I dont think I will have too much problem with applying resin from the over the side, and kneeling on the oposite half of the boat.
The second side though.... Thinking about laying black garbage bags down to kneel on over the first side.... Will I slide around too much to be practical?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:16 pm
by Fuzz
Are you wanting to do both sides at the same time? If so I would not try to walk on the wet side. That is just asking for bad things to happen.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:15 pm
by Jaysen
Fuzz wrote: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:16 pm Are you wanting to do both sides at the same time? If so I would not try to walk on the wet side. That is just asking for bad things to happen.
seems like a good idea to me!

Which should prove just how bad of an idea it really is.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:06 pm
by Capt UB
You just never know....
download.jpg
download.jpg (10.64 KiB) Viewed 2305 times


But put the biggest one in, that will fit.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:47 pm
by silentneko
Never touch wet glass. It will slide under the bags creating huge air pockets as soon as you put pressure on it. Then it needs to be ground out.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:17 pm
by Eric1
silentneko wrote: Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:47 pm Never touch wet glass. It will slide under the bags creating huge air pockets as soon as you put pressure on it. Then it needs to be ground out.
100% Agree. One side at a time.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:49 am
by narfi
Momma mixed while I brushed.
A good coat of epoxy over the entire area first then laid down the cloth then brushed the epoxy in over.
More dryish areas than I would like, but it laid well into the corners and I dont think the dryish areas are a structural issue, just uglier than I like.

I think 2 people brushing might have been better, it was gelling enough when done I didn't want to mess with brushing in more for fear of making a bigger mess.
20180630_214224.jpg
20180630_214210.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:53 am
by Jeff
Nice work Narfi, glad you had some good help!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:50 am
by Eric1
Looking great Narfi! :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:09 am
by narfi
Happy 4th!

Worked a 1/2 day then went to the community picnic at the beach in front of my boss's house.
Landon played in his canoe with some friends and they intentionally swamped it. Full of water it still floats surprisingly high from those water tight end hatches.

They did it on purpose so I didnt offer to help them empty it. That provided some good entertainment for a while as they tried and experimented with different bailing and tom Sawyer whitewashing techniques.

We did a bit of paddling once my life jacket was dry, then went for a pass around the bay on the 3 man tube behind the camps ski boat.

I conned 2 young men to help me glass the second half of the inside for the price of 2 hot dogs and some lemonaid.

Not dry this time but did get a little puddling at the chines. Wasted epoxy but it's not a plane so I'm not too worried about the weight.
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:02 am
by Jeff
Nice work Narfi and looks like you and the family had a nice 4th!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:55 am
by narfi
Working too many hours, the joy of never ending daylight.......

Finaly got the bow and transom glassed tonight.
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Now I can start with the structure......

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:28 am
by cape man
That looks solid! And clean!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:35 am
by fallguy1000
Looking great narfi.

What is next?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:14 am
by narfi
Drop the stringers in and using the formers to hold them in place glue them down and fillet them, then glass tape them in place. Then use the formers as templates for bulkheads and drop them in, glue, fillet and tape. Then attach the floor supports to all the stringers, bulkheads and sides. Then pour foam.

Am I missing anything?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:25 am
by Eric1
Sounds about right to me. I just reached the same place in my build!!
Your boat looks Great! :D :D :D

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:36 am
by OrangeQuest
narfi wrote: Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:14 am Drop the stringers inpicture and using the formers to hold them in place glue them down and fillet them,picture then glass tape them in place.picture Then use the formers as templates for bulkheads and drop them in, glue, fillet and tape.picture Then attach the floor supports to all the stringers, bulkheads and sides.picture Then pour foam.picture

Am I missing anything?
Fixed it! :D
Really looking good. Hope getting some build time on the boat helps you relax a little and can slow down some.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:01 am
by narfi
Got this far on the stringers in 3 sessions.

1. Laid the stringers interlocked with the bulkhead/formers and glued the stringers down between bulkheads.

2. Removed formers and finished gluing the entire length of the stringers and started the fillet radius shape.

3. Tonight I finished filling and shaping the fillets, esp. The areas with gaps between hull and stringer sagged some and needed touching up.
20180724_234647.jpg
Downside of doing it in stages and not glassing right away is now I need to sand a little before applying the glass tapes.

Was winding down at work this evening when power went out. Jumped on my Honda and tore over to the powerhouse arriving about same time as the other guy here who works on the engines. (We only really do monitoring and oil changes, professionals come in for all line work and technical stuff) Alarms were loud and both generators were shut down. There was a false indication in the new fire alarms which in turn shut them down for safety.

We got everything up and running in a few minutes, but waiting on the designer and installer to let us know why it happened and how to prevent it from happening again. I guess that's just growing pains from having a new powerplant and electronic controllers :) village was probably offline for less than 15 minutes.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:51 am
by Fuzz
Stringers look good. Even little bites will get the elephant ate in time :wink:

On the power front that is a pain. Nothing worse than having a shut down and not finding the cause. You just know the problem is still there and will rear its ugly head again sooner or later :help:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:34 am
by OrangeQuest
narfi wrote: Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:01 am
Downside of doing it in stages and not glassing right away is now I need to sand a little before applying the glass tapes.
It is coming along. I know the feeling. I tried to fillet and tape my stringers but got to the last side of the second stringer and ran out of epoxy. It was questionable if I had enough left and didn't want to take the chance.
Boat is taking shape!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:10 am
by narfi
Stringers glassed in.
20180728_000344.jpg
Ran out of paper cups and only had one brush.... did the first stringer then went to my work and checked out 4x 2" chip brushes and borrowed a couple paper cups from the break room.

Hopefully amazon boxes get here Monday with more that I had already ordered.

Bulkheads next.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:08 am
by cape man
Those are not coming off!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:05 am
by Eric1
Good job Narfi. Those look great! Come do mine please!!!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:26 am
by Jeff
Nice work Narfi!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:32 am
by narfi
Trimmed all my formers down to fit flush with the tops of the stringers then used them as templates to cut out bulkheads. I got all but the front one spot welded in before time to go inside for family time.

I went back and forth on rather I should start with the motor well bulkhead full height or just to the stringers and finish the floor first. I ended up going full height and have it glued in as well.

No pictures, but hopefully tomorow.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:38 pm
by fallguy1000
Like it!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:44 am
by narfi
Fillets done.
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:29 am
by gonandkarl
Hi,
The fillets are very nice and it looks you did not use too much goo for them which is definitely good or you will get a boat which is in the end 15 percent overweight to the plans weight like in my case.
Greetings from Karl

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:38 am
by thb
Narfi,

When are you going to install drain holes down thru the center of the frames? If I were building one of these from scratch I would have all compartments with drain holes down to the keel centerline. Installed a sole and foaming underneath will not prevent water from entering these areas. Water has a way of getting in even when we don't expect it and build against it.
Look at the thread here by Matt with his used 27 ft cabin boat. A real PITA to fix later on.

Your fiberglass work is looking real good. I would add 12 oz cloth all the way up the sides. Just curious when do you take the winch straps off. If the rubrails are on, wouldn't that keep the sides from bulging out?

Regards
Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:33 am
by Jeff
Nice work Narfi!!! Really clean!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:42 am
by cape man
Installed a sole and foaming underneath will not prevent water from entering these areas. Water has a way of getting in even when we don't expect it and build against it.
I know there have been several recent postings here about water under the deck of Bateau boats, and the issue is even more common in commercial production boats, but I disagree that somehow water has a way of getting in if built properly. That's like saying the boat will leak regardless of how well we build the hull. Drill limber holes and connect them to an open bilge and yes, water will get in for sure. If you let it out, you are letting it in. I am a "seal everything and fill with foam" believer until my boat shows me otherwise.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:06 am
by narfi
I will be sealing compleatly without holes under the sole.

I will take the straps off when the side bulkheads are installed and I am ready to lay down the gunnel.

It is stiff with the rubrails however there is still some flex when pulling on the sides, so the straps are just a safety measure for when crawling in and out.

I may or may not glass the top 6" but will use 6oz if I do. It is not in the plans and will be extra weight. I will likely glass the outside but not the inside which will be hidden by the gunnels.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:27 am
by narfi
gonandkarl wrote: Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:29 am Hi,
The fillets are very nice and it looks you did not use too much goo for them which is definitely good or you will get a boat which is in the end 15 percent overweight to the plans weight like in my case.
Greetings from Karl
Well pictures can be deciving :)
20180731_071944.jpg
20180731_071944.jpg (112.83 KiB) Viewed 2096 times
You can see there is a pretty large gap I filled. When fitting the bulkheads I just rough cut 1/8" at a time with a skill saw off the bottoms and rounded the corners with Jaysons favorite multitool cutter. This was quick and easy but not as precise as sanding carefully a bit at a time and left larger gaps than I had intended. When first spot welding them in place like this picture shows, you can see the stir sticks being used to space it up flush with the stringer and the size of gap I was filling.

I built Landons HC14 heavy, but added a layer of cloth in and out for toughness. I am trying to do better on this build but have already used way more epoxy than I should have.

I am happy though, it doesnt have to fly, so a little extra weight wont kill me. Just cost me more gas :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:42 pm
by OrangeQuest
On the areas that don't say to put glass but to epoxy coat I have been using the 3.25oz "surfboard" glass and like the way it looks and feels. Very little sanding gives a very smooth feel to the wood.

Your boat looks really good and clean.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:59 am
by narfi
Landon helped clean up getting ready to glass in the bulkheads.
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Then I spent the rest of the evening cutting the tapes and laying them down.

I didnt get any pictures during, but here are the results.
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:59 am
by thb
Nice looking work Narfi. Where in Alaska are you going to use your boat. Rivers or coast?
Regards
Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:59 am
by Jeff
Narfi, really nice glass work!! Good to see Landon lending a hand as well!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:14 am
by Eric1
Well done Narfi. :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:03 am
by narfi
thb wrote: Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:59 am Nice looking work Narfi. Where in Alaska are you going to use your boat. Rivers or coast?
Regards
Tom
Neither. We live inland on a big lake some 60ish miles long.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:46 am
by narfi
Started fitting the floor supports.
Hopefully finish fitting tomorow and sand the rough sides a bit then coat all remaining bare wood under the floor. Then coat the bottom sides of the supports and glue them in.
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:00 am
by thb
Narfi,

I love the way you dado cut the floor supports. Very good idea and when glued down with wood flour/epoxy they will be very strong as well. Cool, will keep this idea for future reference if I ever build another boat. Keep up the good work.

Regards
Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:47 am
by Jeff
Nice Narfi, really good work!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:15 am
by Eric1
I love that idea. Very good Narfi.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:54 am
by Capt UB
I like this..

Saves you from gluing battens in... Raises the sole (you decide height) and it adds a batten to each side!

Will be doing this on the LM18.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:38 am
by Browndog
Looking good!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:29 pm
by narfi
To be fair, it's not my idea. I read it somewhere on this forum, but I cant remember who did it. If I could I would credit them :)

....if I could remember who to quote I would also quote the saying something along the lines of "hire a lazy man to find efficient methods"......
Maybe they arent all good ideas but there will certainly be different ideas :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:40 pm
by Dutch1
I think it was AripekaAngler that I saw that done the first time on his sons FS18. I remember thinking I wish I knew about that prior to epoxying and gluing in all of mine. Definitely easier and faster.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:57 pm
by narfi
I didnt show the intersections yesterday. I cut the corners out with a utility knife to make room for the glass and fillets in the corners.

You can see the difference between sanded and un-sanded. No one will see it, but my assumption is that it required less epoxy to coat it if sanded smooth first.

Coated everything with epoxy, bulkheads, stringers, as well as bottoms and sides and ends of the floor supports. Then spread thickened epoxy on top of the bulkhead stringers and a little along all of the grooves of the supports.

Then laid it all in place and it fit well and felt good. I still clamped all pieces together to keep them level with each other and then layed packing tape over everything and layed a bunch of lumber and weights on it to keep anything from popping up till its cured.

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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:53 am
by pee wee
Nice progress!

While you've got everything in the boat, take the opportunity to sweep the floor! :D

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:58 am
by fallguy1000
Nice work.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:18 am
by Jeff
Well done Narfi!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:30 am
by cape man
Those will be solid! Nice work with the dado.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:33 am
by narfi
Got the parimater glued in.
20180808_212608.jpg

What is normally done around the bow area? Is a parameter glued in there as well or is the sole just cut/sanded at an angle to fit?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:42 am
by cape man
Trying this from the phone... here's the link to what I did on the Dory
https://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.ph ... &start=590

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:15 am
by Capt UB
narfi

That looks great. How much higher are you raising the sole?
You asked about the sole in the bow area, are you not putting in a deck? No frames? Where will the fuel tank go?

Bob.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:15 am
by narfi
There will be a deck in the front there, however I want everything perfectly sealed first then the forward deck or compartments can easily drain back through holes at sole level. 0 chance of water getting underneath.

Between the slotted stringer/bulkhead intersections, and the grooved supports sitting on top of the stringers/bulkheads I think it is nearly impossible to have the under sole bays completely air tight between each other.(though I've done my best) Therefor it's even more important I have the entire sole airtight and no areas for water to pool.

Does that make sense?

You ask how much its raised? I'm assuming you mean above planned stringer tops? Its roughly 1/4" higher than plans, you can see the picture of the grooved supports a few posts back.

Fuel will be in the seat boxes, probably portable tanks but perhaps permanent, I haven't finalized that yet.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:28 am
by cape man
There will be a deck in the front there, however I want everything perfectly sealed first then the forward deck or compartments can easily drain back through holes at sole level. 0 chance of water getting underneath.
There's a deck in the front of the Dory as well. The spaced battens were ala Cracker Larry's build and worked well. The alternative was to make a solid batten which would require lots of skerfs to make that bend. Plenty of support for the deck as it also sits on the sides as they are curved out there. After gluing everything down with lots of thickened epoxy and some weights, I filled any gaps, made filets, and taped the sides and the sole together all the way around. 8 years later she's still solid as hell and no cracks what so ever along the sole/sides seam.

Used a level to locate the exact location for the battens, and hot glue to hold them until the epoxy set. When I glued the sole down I was very liberal with the thickened epoxy, especially along those spaced battens.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:36 am
by narfi
I think maybe we are talking about two different things. Atleast your linked picture is of the batons for the upper deck. My question is about for the sole forward of where it touches the sides, it transitions to resting on the tapered bottom of the hull. You can see what I've done so far is attach batons to the sides up to that transition point.

My question is about where it rests on the bottom, do you still make sliver batons and glue down, or just cut/sand a tape into the sole panel itself to achieve more contact area, or both?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:40 am
by Marshall Moser
I don't have the FS14 plans, but on the OB15, the sole rests on flat stringers. It is described to be a large fillet under the sole gluing it down. I wouldn't worry with a sliver of a batten. I'd use a healthy fillet (that you wont be able to smooth on the underside) and make sure it filled the gap wet, if that makes sense.

I'd continue that fillet on the top side to "key-in" the sole and then tape over it.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:55 am
by cape man
I think maybe we are talking about two different things. Atleast your linked picture is of the batons for the upper deck.
You are right! That is for the deck! And going through my gallery and thread I don't think I had any battens along the sides to support the sole! :oops: :oops: :oops:

Long time ago, but all I can imagine is that the angle of the sides at that part of the boat are enough in and of themselves to support the sole without battens. In your case it looks like you have a similar situation except you have added battens around the sides except for the bow area. If you want to do something there, the spaced battens would work but I don't think you will need them with that bulkhead in the middle of the bow area.

These are the only pics I have of the stringers, bulkheads, and battens before I poured the foam and sealed the sole down.

Image

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:03 pm
by Capt UB
Marshall Moser wrote: Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:40 am I don't have the FS14 plans, but on the OB15, the sole rests on flat stringers. It is described to be a large fillet under the sole gluing it down. I wouldn't worry with a sliver of a batten. I'd use a healthy fillet (that you wont be able to smooth on the underside) and make sure it filled the gap wet, if that makes sense.

I'd continue that fillet on the top side to "key-in" the sole and then tape over it.
On my plans for the FS14, there is no sole, but you can add one...
This is what I did up to the fore deck frame and no battens along the hull. I did add sone sole support frames.
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:47 pm
by Fuzz
If it were me I would just trim the sole to fit. If it is stiff enough to not sag I would leave a small gap. You will be glassing it all in and that will hold just fine.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:30 pm
by Chuck H
Narfi,

According to the plans and kit the so!e should end at frame A. I put a tiny cleat on frame A and fillet/taped the sole where it rested on the bottom panels. Since you raised the sole and cut frame A off at the baseline you're sort of on your own. I don't think you need cleats where the sole meets the bottom panels. It would take some serious table sawing to get the angles right.

If you're going to put an anchor locker in that front compartment consider raising the "sole"in that area. A funnel shaped locker isn't very user friendly.

Chuck

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:38 am
by narfi
Sounds like everyone agrees with my initial thought then..... I will justglue the sole down there with a little extra glue.

Glued in the motor well sides tonight.
20180809_223348.jpg
Waiting for a good sunny hot day baking in the tent to pour the foam and this weekend doesnt look promising.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:02 am
by narfi
Been thinking about having Landon bury a "time capsule" in the foam under the sole.

Any thoughts on what a good container would be?
Current ideas are a plastic peanut butter jar or a glass Mason jar.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:03 am
by Fuzz
You could warm up some water, pour it in a cooler and then put the jugs in there. If you get it too warm it will foam right from the start.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:04 am
by Fuzz
I would go with the peanut butter jar. Extra chunky of course :lol:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:56 am
by Capt UB
Did you say you were using foam?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:28 am
by cape man
Love the time capsule idea and a sturdy plastic jar would be my pick, or a PVC tube with end caps.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:40 am
by Jeff
Cool idea Narfi!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:19 am
by OrangeQuest
If it is under the sole, embedded in the foam, he would have to cut the sole out to get to it?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:22 am
by narfi
OrangeQuest wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:19 am If it is under the sole, embedded in the foam, he would have to cut the sole out to get to it?
Yes. But the intent wouldn't be for that to happen any time soon. Say 30+yrs.......

Was thinking it would be a good tradition to start with all I build as I dont see myself stopping anytime soon either.
Capt UB wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:56 am Did you say you were using foam?
Yes.. that has been the plan since the beginning. Had I somehow given a different impression?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:31 am
by OrangeQuest
narfi wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:22 am
OrangeQuest wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:19 am If it is under the sole, embedded in the foam, he would have to cut the sole out to get to it?
Yes. But the intent wouldn't be for that to happen any time soon. Say 30+yrs.......

Was thinking it would be a good tradition to start with all I build as I dont see myself stopping anytime soon either.
So what happens if the boat lasts even longer? You are building it pretty good!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:48 am
by narfi
OrangeQuest wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:31 am So what happens if the boat lasts even longer? You are building it pretty good!
Then instead of, "grandpa built this with your daddy when he was 8yrs old" it will be "grandpa built this with your great granddaddy when he was only 8yrs old"

It's a time capsule not an impatient capsule :)
(Unlike the Mason jar we had sticking half out of our front lawn for a few months before he dug it up again a year or two ago(all his idea and execution start to finish))

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:22 pm
by OrangeQuest
:lol:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:49 pm
by Capt UB
narfi wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:22 am
OrangeQuest wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:19 am If it is under the sole, embedded in the foam, he would have to cut the sole out to get to it?
Yes. But the intent wouldn't be for that to happen any time soon. Say 30+yrs.......

Was thinking it would be a good tradition to start with all I build as I dont see myself stopping anytime soon either.
Capt UB wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:56 am Did you say you were using foam?
Yes.. that has been the plan since the beginning. Had I somehow given a different impression?

Trying to keep up.... I forget who doing what sometimes...

Bob.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:16 pm
by Jaysen
Hell... I have trouble keeping track of what I’m doing most days.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:38 am
by narfi
Cleaned all the lumps and bumps off the tops of the floor supports.
20180811_073627.jpg
Was going to glass tape in the motor well side panels but ran out of time.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:37 pm
by Eric1
Very clean work Narfi! It looks great! :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:05 pm
by narfi
Taped in the motor well side panels and cut out the first three floor panels.
20180811_185558.jpg
20180811_185611.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:05 am
by Capt UB
narfi
Great looking, job.

Your floor/sole looks great! Are you doing anything on the butting ends, tape or scarf ?

Bob.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:26 am
by Jeff
Narfi, as always, very well done!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:16 pm
by narfi
Capt UB wrote: Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:05 am narfi
Great looking, job.

Your floor/sole looks great! Are you doing anything on the butting ends, tape or scarf ?

Bob.
I cut them so they all join at the center of the supports above the bulkheads. I will tape each seam once they are glued in place and 6oz over the entire thing.

I used one more sheet by doing this over full 4ft sections, but ended up with four 1'x8' sections I can use for the gunwals plus 4 big chunks I can use for consoles, seats or lids.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:55 pm
by narfi
Finished fitting all the floor peices.
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Poured the first 2gal of foam.
20180812_164310.jpg
Then poured two more.
20180812_164328.jpg
Was 95f in the tent when I started and 110f when I was done with the 4th gallon.

I layed out pixie paper cups and poured 6 cups of each part at a time then would quickly mix 1cup part a and 1 part cup b quickly and pouring before or as it started expanding, scraped quickly and repeated again and again using the same bigger mixing cup the whole time.

I was worried I wouldn't have time to mix and pour but I had time to walk to other side of boat while mixing and still pour before it grew out of the cup.

How long should I wait before I can cut the tops off? Was expecting rain and cold today and all week but the sun came out and I had to take advantage.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:09 pm
by silentneko
Some say it can expand for up to several days, but I think one solid day is really enough.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:18 am
by narfi
Not sure when it will be warm again so decided to just get it all done. Borrowed a hand saw and cut the tops off everything and threw them in the remaining compartments and poured in the remaining 2 gallons along with the time capsule.
20180812_205645.jpg
20180812_205658.jpg
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20180812_205913.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:12 am
by Fuzz
That will stay afloat :!:
The time capsule is a neat idea. You two will always know it is there.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:43 am
by Eric1
Great job on the foam. Tell Landon I said hello. I love the time capsule idea! :D

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:06 am
by Jeff
Nice foam work Narfi and the Time Capsule is very cool!! Glad to see Landon back at work on the build!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:36 pm
by Capt UB
Damn nice job!!!

I rolled my boat out into the sun and let it heat up, then poured, the foam was in the house getting cool. I think I cut the tops off a few days later. Somewhere someone said wait a day of two.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:22 pm
by Knoxville_Jay
A time capsule!?

How cool is that!?!?

Great idea!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:59 am
by narfi
Did a couple hours of prep work, nothing really picture worthy though.

Finished trimming the last couple high spots on the foam.
Sanded down the floor supports one last time.
Blew out all the sawdust.
The plywood got some dirty snow blew under the tent edge last winter so the corners are kind of dirty. I quickly sanded the dirt off for all the floor panels and gave them a final fitting.
The time capsule wasnt quite situated square in the foam and one edge sticks above the supports. So I marked that panel and sanded out a relief on the underside until it could sit flush.

It all looks nice and clean sitting there. Ready to epoxy and glue down.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:51 pm
by narfi
I coated all the supports with epoxy. Coated the undersides and edges of all the floor panels. Then layed out thickened epoxy on all the supports and laid the panels down and weighted them in place.
20180818_095347.jpg
Got a farting sound from a corner of each bay when walking around on it. Seems it is sealed well and filleting in the sides will ensure that even more.
That also means there is a slight flex but a layer of glass I lay over should help with that as well.

Only 55f today, was hoping the sun would come out and bake it, but might be a day or two till I pull up the weights and sand the stuff squirted out between panels and lay in the fillets.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:08 pm
by fallguy1000
Our kids are the same age Narfi.

Luke likes to play Minecraft. Hope he'll help me with paint.

The build looks good to me man.

I am always nervous about foam holding water.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:30 pm
by narfi
Minecraft, the modern legos. I dont understand it, but it really gets landons creative mind working. My wife plays with him some and has made some really impressive structures and models.

I went back and forth alot on the foam. But with my floor compleatly sealed and no tubes or anything going through it. I feel confidant. If I breach the hull It will get me home safely through the cold waters.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:45 pm
by fallguy1000
Makes sense if you can limp in on any trouble and avoid hypothermia.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:57 pm
by narfi
Removed all the weights and sanded off my epoxy handprints and drips around the edges. Then filled in a fillet around the entire parimater and filled in the couple of areas between panels not filled when I first glued it down.
20180819_194737.jpg
20180819_195211.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:54 am
by thb
Hi Narfi,

I was wondering if you plan on putting biax tape over the floor to side joints. I guess you are going to cover the deck with glass so you could run it up over the sides a little bit and accomplish the same thing.

Your build is coming along nicely and very neat work.

Regards
Tom in Steinhatchee

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:18 am
by OrangeQuest
It is coming along nicely and looking good and clean.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:34 am
by fallguy1000
Thanks for the pics. I am a ways off on the cockpit sole, so inspiring for me.

All the best.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:53 am
by narfi
thb wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:54 am Hi Narfi,

I was wondering if you plan on putting biax tape over the floor to side joints.
Yes I will tape and then glass both.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:02 am
by jacquesmm
narfi wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:53 am
thb wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:54 am Hi Narfi,

I was wondering if you plan on putting biax tape over the floor to side joints.
Yes I will tape and then glass both.

Yes, do it. It is a must, that seam is structural.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:43 am
by narfi
jacquesmm wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:02 am
Yes, do it. It is a must, that seam is structural.
Done.
20180820_234344.jpg

20180820_234333.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:49 am
by thb
Narfi,

Now time for some biax cloth over the entire deck and joints hey. Up the sides also???

Your work is just too neat compared to mine.

I posted this morning on the gunnel questions you had.

Regards
Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:47 am
by narfi
Yep, 6oz biax next. Will probably just go up the sides a couple inches past the tapes, just so its easier to fair than one huge step if they stoped together. I will overlap a couple feet in the center to help with strength hopefully a little. Ill have my seats on the side so the middle will be walked on the most, and my foam didnt quite overflow the center sections so there is no support from it. Im almost 250lbs and can feel a a very light spring to it now, nothing to worry about, but 2 layers of 6oz on the main walkway will not hurt anything :)

The info on your gunnels helped me. I was thinking 8-10" uniform the entire length and your info reinforces that for me. I will be using 3/8" on the top and 1/4" to cover the inside face. Left over from cutting the floor pieces I have 4 scraps 8' by 1' of the 3/8s, so will have to do shorter sections around the curves but think it should still work ok. That will leave me 2 full sheets of 3/8s plus lots of 3/8s and 1/4" scraps for consoles and seat boxes.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:38 am
by narfi
Didnt get warm enough today so couldnt sand the edges of the tapes down. Was going to start laying in the supports for the bottom of the motter-well and side compartments but realized I've not got it all thought through yet.

Option 1. drain the main area out the sides, the side compartments bottoms high enough to drain into the motor-well and then the motor-well out the back.

Option 2. Main area drains through fiberglass tubes under the motor-well out the back, side compartments drain into motor-well and the well drains out the back.

Option 3. Everything drains into the motor-well which would need to be lowered to top of stringer height and then drains out the back.

Option 3.b. the motorwell bottom is sloped up forward as in option 1, but against the transom is low enough for fiberglass tubes from the main compartment to drain into it.

I like option 1 best I think, it makes everything simpler. Would need some nice cosmetic cups to cover the outside of the hull where the main area drains.



Had planned on a permanent bench seat against the motorwell, but thinking now I will make it removable, and usually not installed.

something like this:
20180821_203634.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:25 pm
by narfi

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:35 pm
by fallguy1000
Option two for me.

Mains is mains. All water flows aft when you throttle.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:56 pm
by OrangeQuest
Vote option 1

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:10 pm
by narfi
Started sanding down the edges of the tapes last night and finished this afternoon.

Cut and layed out the first side of 6oz covering the sole, overlapping 2ft so will have 12oz(6+6) covering the heaviest foot traffic between the stringers.

Layed plastic over the boat and put an electric heater and the epoxy inside the hull for 2hrs.

Peeled back the plastic and with my wife mixing rolled down the epoxy.
Then recovered with plastic and put the heater back in. Will run it 3hrs and unplug it before bed.
20180825_185621.jpg
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20180825_185745.jpg
This was my first attempt with rolling the epoxy and it went well.
The 6oz is woven and not biax, so it wrinkles really easy and I didnt want to fight trying to lay it out over the coated sole. So I layed it as smooth as possible and applied all epoxy from the top, poured it over and then using a left over 6in foam roller from when I was graphiting the bottom rolled it out as quickly as possible. Then touched up the corners with a 3" chip brush.

It went surprisingly fast! A combination of heating the epoxy first and using the roller I think works well and even though there are a few obvious "puddles" of waste I think I used less than I would have with 3in chip brushes which would have gone slower and given the epoxy time to cool before I finished.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:01 am
by fallguy1000
You did it all the way I would have narfi. I never lay light glass over neat epoxy.

Looking good.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:28 am
by Jeff
Nice work Narfi!!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:04 am
by silentneko
I never use chip brushes anymore. I buy the little "touch up" kits from sherwin williams. It comes with a tray, roller frame, and 3 3" pink rollers. Works great and let's you make things very even.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:45 am
by narfi
Ran the heater 6 more hours today and it was cured enough to sand the edge down and rough up the center section I overlapped. Barely though, a couple of spots clogged up the paper, but it worked out ok.

Sweaped, vacuumed and blew it out, then laid down the other side of 6oz. Heated it all up for an hour with the epoxy bottles under the plastic with it then repeated yesterdays schedule with my wife mixing and me rolling. Landon came in to inspect when we were done.
20180826_204209.jpg

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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:34 am
by CatfishHunter
Looking good, nice and clean!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:33 am
by cape man
Very well done. That is going to be solid.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:35 am
by Jeff
Narfi, very nice work from you and Landon!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:11 pm
by narfi
I am better at doing than thinking...... :/

For the gunnel tops, is there a need for the cleat against the hull top if there is a wide rubrail? I have 4 layers of 1/4" + the 1/4" hull for total of 1.25" + glue........

Next question,
gunwall cleat.PNG
gunwall cleat.PNG (4.45 KiB) Viewed 2344 times
the rubrails are flush with the hull and slope down on the outboard side (as seen in the image), if the gunnal top is level is that gap just filled with thickened epoxy?

Still thinking about the front end compartments and how that will fit together..........

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:07 pm
by thb
If you were to cut the cleats at an angle on a table saw then you would have very little ( a lot less anyway ) to fill. I do not really think you will need the cleats since your rubrail is extra thick. You choose based on what you desire.

I just added some 1/4 ply on the inside between the uprights to beef up my rubrail area. No cleat used.

Regards
Tom in Steinhatchee

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:37 pm
by Jaysen
Thickened epoxy for the gap. If it’s big use fiber. It’s just a gap like any other gap.

If you use a cleat, position it so that it doesn’t create a larger gap at the run rail. That will create a small gap inside the hull that you fill with thickened epoxy glue. Think of it as a place to hold the glue while you lay the top.

Hope that makes sense.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:52 pm
by Fuzz
Are you planning on the gunnels being flat or a little slope to shed water? If the latter I bet the gap will not be very big.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:18 pm
by fallguy1000
I repaired a boat last year with rotted out rubrail. It was basically that interface that leaked as some delam occurred on the ply deck edge. Once it delaminated; that space was open to the rail.

If you have any gap there; use thickened epoxy or whatever you are using to bed the deck to seal.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:45 am
by OrangeQuest
Looks like a good place for tape or over lap cloth to help keep things from delaminating and water getting in.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:54 am
by cape man
You can also plane the top of the hull so the gunwale sits right on top with no gap. Check out the FS14 Daniel is building in Japan.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:43 am
by narfi
16, 12 and 10hr work days haven't left me much boattime this week. Hadn't rained in two days so last night I knocked down some of the hay field my lawn was turning into :(
20180830_073450.jpg
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Here you can see the angle gap is significant. I had been planning to make the tops level, hadnt thought of draining out with them, I'm not sure how much of an advantage that would be.... the slope might make it feel larger though? Maybe some sort of a compromise between level and square..... probably need to spend an evening staring at it.

I did peel back the plastic last night and the floor had cured well. Some air bubbles on the surface which I expected from heating it while the outside was cool. They all look to be on the surface though and no pockets under the glass.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:50 am
by cape man
Shoot for a compromise. Slight angle to shed some water, but not so much as to make it look weird. On my OD I wanted the gunwales flat and big enough to walk on, or least step on to get in and out of the boat. There is just the slightest outward slope that takes small amounts of water out instead of in.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:51 pm
by thb
Narfi,

I guess it depends of whether you want to walk on it. If you brought the inside gunnel supports higher you would not have a big gap. The gunnel would slope pretty significantly but it would still look ok, I think. Other alternative is to get out your power plane or manual plane and level off the rubrail area. I kind of like the higher gunnel on the inside which would be a safety factor in keeping folks from falling over the side into your frigid water.

Regards
Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:04 am
by Eric1
Narfi, I have the same thing going on my build. I'm thinking to plane the close to flat but I'm not sure.
I staggered the strips when I installed my rub rail but it wasn't close to enough.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:05 am
by fallguy1000
My Lund 16' has flat as pancake, level gunwale with a raised rubrail ridge on the outside. They are pretty wide.

I generally set stuff on them and the only victim that I recall was a drink of some kind went over. But pliers no and they are there every trip out. (Chest thumping and fake news all at once).

Last trip I headed down the road and could not find my iphone. Asked my wife to call it about quarter mile from home and heard it ringing. It was on the gunnel. If you fish, level with a raised rubrail is my preference. People will set stuff on them; I guarantee it.

The Skoota I am building has an aft beam locker and it would be built level, but it is also rod storage; so this post has me thinking about putting a raised edge on the back of the lid to prevent the pliers, or eyeglasses from going over.

This, by the way, is where you don't want to leave a void. If you raise the rail; it will cover the gap.

If you go with an angle; keep it shorter to keep people from the temptation.

But I would build a bigger rail that went over; only lot more work to square rabbet that roundish profile. Router table with a guide for the rabbet or clamp the rabbet to a table, etc..

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:27 am
by OrangeQuest
You bring up some good points Fallguy.

Like Narfi and Eric I have been debating angle or flat. Build them flat and people will be encouraged to put stuff on it, built at an outward angle not so much. I want my gunnels to suggest that it is not a place to set stuff on and shed water out of the boat. My Hobie had built in side compartments that where closed with mesh and bungee threaded through the top. Because they where deep they would hold water but also keep anything in them from falling out during a roll over.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:28 pm
by fallguy1000
I was working rigging the boat for a trip today and the gunwale was covered in stuff and I thought about this thread.

I'll add a picture in a bit.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:40 am
by narfi
@fallguy a pic would be great.

Got the bulkheads cut out for the front deck and compartments.
20180902_221426.jpg
I was going to do 3 compartments under the deck, a 24" wide the short rubbermaid totes could slide in and two triangles on the sides with hatch access on top.

Landon and momma asked for it to be one big compartment so we are going with that. Landon wanted to be able to crawl in and hide...... :) the front will be one big compartment all the way down with a hatch ontop.

The rear deck bulkhead is about 3" in front of the bulkhead underneath it. So I have approximately 36+36+36+3 inches between it and the motorwell bulkhead to fit everything else.

Ordered this fuel tank,
Moeller Marine Below Deck Permanent Fuel Tank (19-Gallon, 26" x 16" x 11.75") https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000MT95C8/re ... JBbQBHFG8M

It will fit well under the passenger side console. How much extra room does it need for mounting? Can it touch the walls? 1/2" clearance? 2"???? What's standard?

How much room do I need between the rear face of the console and the front or back or center of the seat?

The front deck is 15" high(frame is 14 5/8) and plan to have the seats on the fronts of the consoles the same height.(15" high and 15" deep) probably go with the same for the folding rear bench seat as well. Got some swivels ordered for the main 2 seats and will attempt to emulate Peter's wood seats to mount on the swivels on boxes.

Trying to get spacing and layout finalized so I can make sure I get everything together in the right order.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:33 am
by narfi
Drew everything out on the floor, then cut out bulkheads for each of the lines.
20180904_000233.jpg
The console with seat in the plans is 30", I will make these 27" inside (27 3/4 with the 3/8 front and rear bulkhead panels) to fit the 26" tank.

The front deck is 15" tall as is the console seats.
The captain and first mate seats will be swivel mounted on 12" tall 12" deep boxes with hopefully a 6" radius(12" circle) towards the center swing all the way around 8n the seat without hitting your knees on a corner. The idea is that with the swivel and seat it will also be around 15" once mounted on the 12" boxes.

The front of the console seat is a little tighter than I thought for the tank (all theoretical still waiting for it to arive) so thinking I may mount it on 1" blocks as I have 3 vertical inches to spare. Need to figure out a tie down for it as well once it arrives, was thinking a strap through the blocks epoxied to the floor and bolted together around the top? What is standard for securing tanks?

Tomorow if I get of work early enough to have energy I'll label all the bulkheads and pull them out and do a preliminary sanding of the sides and sole. The sole needs to be roughed up where taping the bulkheads down and there are some rough spots on the sides still I need to smooth up before it gets harder to access.

Figured out a name and emblem for it.
North Star
Emblem is the big dipper and north star same as the alaska state flag except I wont go with gold stars, just white on blue.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:52 am
by thb
Narfi,

I think I would glass cloth and epoxy the bulkheads before you tab them in the boat. That way you are working on flat surface and not vertical surface. Just some 6 oz cloth would be good on both sides. Also I would put some 6 oz cloth on the inside side panels up to the gunnels not covered by the cloth previously. That is just me.

I can see your gunnel shape now with your bulkhead shapes. Should be nice wide gunnel.

With your tank in the left side console, I assume you are going to take the fuel feed line up under the gunnel. Is that your plan? Are you going to install a chase tube for the fuel line? The chase tubes would be easier to line up after bulkheads are installed, I think.

Should be a neat layout on your boat. How did you choose this set up.

Your fuel tank mounting plan with a couple of SS straps with rubber between straps and tank should be good. Sit it on a platform so you do not have to drill into the sole. Just tab the platform to the sole in a couple of places and that way you could remove it if ever required. You could also recess some SS machine bolts into the platform to attach the straps.

Regards
Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:30 am
by narfi
thb wrote: Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:52 am

Should be a neat layout on your boat. How did you choose this set up.

Well I knew early on I wanted dual consoles, I want momma out of the wind and more likely to go adventuring with us. (I also intend to have the right console seat be a fold up "potty seat" which can store a 5gal bucket under it.

I knew I wanted to be able to carry 2 adult couples and 2-3 kids for picknicks, so needed lots of seating.

Landon demanded a large enough compartment somewhere he could hide/play in.

I wanted 3ft standing floor space behind the captains seat box but compromised on 30inches.

Since the floor panels are all 36" it was easy to picture and "napkin sketch" the space. It is more crowded than I had hoped, would have all fit perfectly on the fs19 I think :p

If I make the foldable/removable rear bench 12" that gives 18" of leg room. The console seats have 18" of leg room. The captains seats have 20-22"(I forget now was late when I finished) of leg room.

I've been thinking about it for a while even though working too much to be physically working on it, you can go back a page or two and see it's similar to my rough scetch a week or two ago.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:40 am
by narfi
Planed down a couple of high spots on the rubrail, sanded the edges of all the bulkheads I cut out yesterday. Layed everything out on plastic and installed a duct tape dam along the outer edge of the rubrails.

Heated up the epoxy and fast hardener in a hot water bath in the kitchen sink and then set them in front of an electric heater in the tent while I worked.

Brushed a coat of epoxy along the top of the rubrails, then glassed the first side of all the bulkheads with 6oz woven, then layed down a leveling layer of woodflour thickened epoxy along the tops of the rubrails against the dam.

No picture of it, but the bow bulkhead has a 2x3" triangle missing from the bottom, so I cut a scrap to fit and glassed it in. The hatch hole for the forward deck compartment is a bit wobbly still so I layed a scrap a strip along the bottom of the opening and glassed it in with it, I will cut it out once the bulkhead is glued in place.
20180905_002644.jpg
(Dont mind the messy floor)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:38 am
by OrangeQuest
Looking good and good planning.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:59 am
by Jeff
Nice Narfi!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:13 am
by narfi
Flipped all the bulkheads over and quickly sanded any epoxy "nipples" that had dripped under from last night, then layed down and epoxied 6oz on the second side.

No pictures though.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:59 am
by OrangeQuest
When I did my frames I set up a folding table with a sheet of scrap plywood on it. Then took a razor knife and cut trash bags so I would have long sheets of plastic. Made rolling the epoxy on the glass very easy. I even laid the really small pieces close together so I could laid glass on them all at one time. Cut them apart while the epoxy was still green. Your method is easy to get the epoxy on the edges after the flip.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:42 pm
by narfi
If you look closely you can see it, there is plastic under all the frames, 3 tables and a sheet of old plywood on the ground all covered in plastic before laying the frames down and glass over

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:07 am
by narfi
Spent about 4hrs sanding the inside of the hull tonight. Was planning to just epoxy coat the 6in without glass, but think I will glass it with 6oz.

Tomorow will probably lay down that 6in of glass at the top of the sides and against the motorwell bulkhead.

Still need to shape the 6in radius panels for the seat boxes as well.

The bulkheads are all glassed 6oz on both sides and I trimmed them the morning after each application with a razor box knife. The remaining edges will knock down easy with a roughish sanding block.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:25 am
by Eric1
Go Man Go!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:33 am
by Jeff
Nice progress Narfi!! Get us some photos over the weekend. Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:56 pm
by narfi
Last night I glued the bow compartment bulkhead in place, then layed 6oz cloth over the motorwell bulkhead and the tops of the side panels where the 12oz does not reach.
20180908_001106.jpg
20180908_001026.jpg
I had intended to cut drain holes in the bulkhead before installing, but forgot :(

I guess that leaves me more options now though, I can keep it full depth as intended. Or I can put a raised floor in it for more floor space. There are arguments in favor of both, but I like the idea of full depth, I could probably fit a small folding step ladder in it and I dont really intend to put anything big and square in it, so floor space isnt as necessary as volume and height.

Any thoughts on how to safely cut the drain holes in place and end up with it still looking clean and round?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:18 pm
by OrangeQuest
Looking really good!

You could use a hole saw to cut your drain. Put a thin sheet of plywood on the floor, under the saw so doesn't rub the floor. If the drill hits and cocks the saw then socket to drive the saw bit, wobble extension or u-joint and extension and go slow. If you have room do a little on the bow first and finish from the other side to minimize chip out. If you have hole saw set go size smaller than you want and then drum sand to the correct size and down flush to the deck.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:54 pm
by piperdown
Been having a great time following your build! Very nice work!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:39 pm
by narfi
OrangeQuest wrote: Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:18 pm

You could use a hole saw to cut your drain. Put a thin sheet of plywood on the floor, under the saw so doesn't rub the floor.
Good idea, I always use a sacrificial scrap of something when cutting near anything critical on airplanes, not sure why it didnt occure to me here.
piperdown wrote: Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:54 pm Been having a great time following your build! Very nice work!
Thanks!
There is a great psychological benefit and motivation to comments like yours :)

If an idiot like me with no experience can build a boat, then anyone willing to dream can as well!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:00 am
by Fuzz
This Indian summer we are having should be good for your boat building :D
I have never known anyone who lived and prospered in the bush who was not pretty darn handy at anything they did. You learn to make do with what you have.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:06 am
by fallguy1000
Looks great.

Freeboard is nice, but reaching over to rinse hands is a pita.

My Lund boat is a wet ride and sitting up higher would make it wetter.

I vote for a lower sole versus higher despite the washing complaint.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:20 pm
by narfi
Didnt work on the boat yesterday.
Flew out with Landon and a buddy for the evening and hiked a little and brought some berries home for momma. Low Bush cranberries and crow berries but not very many blueberries, I think maybe a bit late for them.
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:31 pm
by Jeff
Narfi, that is a beautiful area and I am sure you & Landon had to have really enjoyed flying around the area!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:47 pm
by Fuzz
Looks like Fall has come to the high country :cry:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:24 pm
by narfi
Anyone know anything about Evenrude 60hp etec? Might be able to get a 2006 model here no shipping.

Edit: maybe its 2007...
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Coworker bought it to fixup and sell. Something wrong with the fuel pump.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:00 pm
by OrangeQuest

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:16 pm
by fallguy1000
Compression?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:51 pm
by Fuzz
You need to do some research on models of that age. I have absolutely no experience with the Etecs but from all I have read those that have them like them.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:42 am
by thb
Narfi,

My last flats boat I put a brand new 2007 90 hp etec on it and it was great for the first couple of years ( 100 hours run time ). I actually wanted the 60hp but it did not come out until later that year.

Then the crap began because it sat around and did not get used. At least 3 fuel pumps, 2 of the 3 injectors replaced. Then earlier this year the computer went out ( they call it an EMM - engine management module ). Lift cylinder also stopped working and had to be rebuilt. The EMM is water cooled so if it gets too hot cause you picked up weeds forget it. Motor goes into safe mode when it gets too hot. EMM problem began right after the only overheat I ever can remember having. Evinrude actually had QC issues with these early ETEC EMM's from what I could gather on line but of course they would not warranty one with only 110 hours on it. Last bill at the dealer who fixes etec's was $1872 to fix the lift cylinder and replace the EMM which cost about $1000. Year before the bill was about $950 to replace the injectors and get it running again. It became a money pit which I lost faith in so I sold the boat.

Hope this helps. I think something without all the computer controlled crap would be better up there or at least a very reliable Honda or Tohatsu.

Regards
Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:09 am
by silentneko
I have no first hand experience with Etec's, but I was recently advised while looking for a 60hp motor to stay away from anything before 2010 if memory serves.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:45 am
by fallguy1000
Always easy to spend other people's money, but if you plan on ocean fishing and any longer runs; I'd go with a new, proven brand and model.

The other issue is repairs for you might be harder to manage, but conjecture on my part.

As for the specifics, when I buy a used car, I google the brand and model and the word problem or problems and you can find out lots of the issues. My kid bought a 2005 Nissan and the engine cradle was rotted out. Turns out a well known problem. Had I seen it, the car might have been cheaper versus us eating the repairs, but I didn't do the googling and didn't look at the cradle.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:55 am
by Larry B
dont know anything about that year, but I bought a new 2010 60hp Etec and I love it. Only problem I ever had with it was a coil went bad right after I bought it. Didn't strand me, just wouldn't idle right. Replaced under warranty and not a hic up since. But I believe the 2010 is a different motor than the 2007 :doh:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:06 am
by narfi
Wife told me it's not what I wanted and to buy a new motor in the spring. Hard to argue with that.

No ocean going but the lake we live on is big, 60miles long and 5 miles wide. She doesnt want to be broke down somewhere.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:00 pm
by Jeff
Nice Narfi!! Nice supportive wife!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:56 pm
by Fuzz
narfi wrote: Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:06 am Wife told me it's not what I wanted and to buy a new motor in the spring. Hard to argue with that.

No ocean going but the lake we live on is big, 60miles long and 5 miles wide. She doesnt want to be broke down somewhere.
Not saying that lake is big but I got my butt kicked on it in a full size commercial gillneter. Crossing the lake was the only time that whole season I had green water coming over the bow.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:24 am
by fallguy1000
Awful partial to that Yamaha F70.

Super light, nice features like 50rpm trolling adjustment.

Gonna buy two when I am ready.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:47 am
by narfi
That yamaha does look nice, I'll have to do more research. Jacques calls for 40hp and I was going to buy a mercury 60hp since it weighs the same as their 40. The yamaha f70 comes in just a few pounds more, but I'll have to figure out prices. I'm hoping to spend around 6k for a new motor, not sure how realistic that is.

Glued in all the bulkheads tonight.
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Need to pull the clamps and run the fillets to the top and finish around the bow compartment bulkhead, then will be ready to tape it all together.

Not much woodflour left and I dumped all my partial bottles of hardener together mixing medium and fast, have about a half gal of hardener and 1gal of part A left so I'll need to be ordering more again, I've used alot more than the plans call for already and I still have a lot of fairing to do :(

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:27 am
by silentneko
I've gotten quotes over the last few months on several 60hp motors from different dealers. Cheapest I've found was a black 60hp zuke with analog guages and aluminum prop for $6500 if I recall.

Best I found was a white 60 zuke, with the c10 digital guage package, nmea2000 network, and stainless prop for $7100.

Mercury were a little more expensive, and don't get me started on yamaha or honda.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:11 am
by thb
Narfi,

I went with Tohatsu based on recommendation from my boat builder friend who sells Honda and Tohatsu. The Honda was more expensive and did not come with prop, controls cables, binnacle, tachometer. Tohatsu also provided ss engine mount bolts, nuts and washers, fuel water separator, fuel line and steering hookup brackets/rod. Basically everything you need except engine oil was provided. This 50 hp 4 stroke also has the idle adjustment feature. He sells his motors very cheap at a little over costs. This one cost me about 5400 plus 200 for shipping. Then Fla tax on top of all that so still under your 6000 figure. Do you have sales tax up in Alaska?

He has Honda customers with over 12000 hours on their motors and still going strong. Tohatsu customers have also reported very trouble free service. If he recommends it, I listen. Also he sells boats and motors to Sea Tow and they tell him majority of tow ins are with Yamaha, then Mercury. If anyone in Florida needs a motor, he is the place to visit.

Regards
Tom in Steinhatchee

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:33 am
by Eric1
You got me thinking Tohatsu.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:35 pm
by Fuzz
I believe that any of the new outboards will be good. I do not have any particular brand loyalty.
Around this time of the year many times dealers will have left over motors and they are more than happy to sell them at a discount rather than hold them until next spring. Keep an eye out for sales as it might be enough savings to make buying early worth it.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:39 pm
by OrangeQuest
I know car dealers drop their prices close to tax time so they pay less taxes on what the no longer have. My guess is boat dealers do the same.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:01 pm
by R00kie
Eric1 wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:33 am You got me thinking Tohatsu.
I have a fairly heavy FS 17 that I powered with a Suzuki DF60A. It does all I need it to do, tops out at 30-31 mph with 15 gallons of fuel and two large adults. Also has troll mode. You have to specify that they supply the switch and the C10, but it hooks right up. I can usually fish all day on 5 gallons.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:22 pm
by cape man
You won't get the yamaha 70 for 6K, but I LOVE mine. Everything they said it was, and the weight is unbelievable.

Cash in one of those bit coins (or two). 8)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:25 am
by narfi
The sazuki 60hp looks about 20lbs lighter than all its competitors.

Didnt have time for much tonight, had to help transfer fuel to the powerplant tank farm.

Cut out the side panels for the console base boxes and kerfed the panels for the captains seat boxes.
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If I fill the grooves with thickened epoxy and glass the outside, how much spring back will I end up with? Should I clamp it down an inch closer together before doing that or proceed as is? For now they are clamped(screwed to 3 batons each) within 1/8" of the right size. Just sitting there getting comfy for a day or so. One of them has a bit of a flat spot, not sure if I had a shallow kerf there or just natural wood stuborness.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:50 am
by Eric1
Really nice my Friend.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:54 am
by OrangeQuest
They both look really good! And it is a great idea on the seats.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:08 am
by thb
Narfi,

It looks great with the bulkheads in. The rounded seat box bases are neat idea. The 3 batons will keep them in position as you fill the cuts with wood flour and epoxy, IMHO. I would glass the outside after the WFE sets up. Other idea is to remove the batons, lay the pieces out for filling and then install the batons after WFE is installed and before it has set up. That way you might be able to get the grooves filled more completely and excess WFE will ooze out when the curvature is re-established with the baton install. Should be strong as all get out.

Regards
Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:28 am
by Jeff
Really nice work Narfi!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:30 am
by Jaysen
I'd think a small bit of glass over the inside of the curve, maybe two sections of tape, would prevent that spring back. you'd have to put the tape on after reinstalling the battens. There was a thread about taping the top or bottom of a sole that talked about which side provides "strength".

It's possible I have it completely backwards so hopefully someone smart will chime in.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:30 pm
by fallguy1000
Glass is the way to avoid trouble and deformation.

Fill the kerfs with thickened epoxy and lay glass scraps inside the radius.

Then, if possible, glass the outside well to the flat.

I would use thicker glass on the inside. Maybe a couple layer of 17oz scraps. Thinner outside and easier to finish nice. Unless I have the perspetive wrong and the inside is seen....

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:29 am
by narfi
I dont have any 17oz, but covered the inside with 12oz.
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Ran out of wood flour and finished filling with fairing mix from BBC. Not ideal but hopefully the glass makes up for it.

Ordered more flour and epoxy, should be the last of either I need for this project......

Taking inventory, I have 2 full sheets of 3/8" left. The front deck and bow lid will take one sheet. Which leaves one....

I have 4x full lengths of 3/8" 12inches wide I will use for the gunnal decks and 2 full lengths of 1/4" roughly 24" wide I will use for the inside face of the gunnels.

Enough scrap 3/8" to cover one of the console bottom boxes.

That leaves me the tops of the consoles, the floor of the motorwell and the floor and lids of the transom side compartments. Not sure If I can get that all out of the remaining sheet or not, but I'm going to try.....

Need to figure out plumbing, wiring, and controls before I get much further, should get that all done before closing in the gunnels.

Need to figure out what sort of hinges, latches, and assorted "bling" I will need as well.....

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:53 am
by silentneko
Looking good. I wanted to do something like that with the front of my console, but just couldn't work it out with the tank there.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:43 am
by cape man
That looks awesome!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:04 am
by Jeff
Really nice work Narfi!!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:58 am
by OrangeQuest
I hate taking inventory. Always wind up with less than what I think and then buy more than I think I need! Seat mounts are looking really good.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:28 am
by piperdown
That is very cool!
I know about kerfing wood but never done it myself. How far into the wood do you have to cut?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:11 am
by narfi
piperdown wrote: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:28 am That is very cool!
I know about kerfing wood but never done it myself. How far into the wood do you have to cut?
There were 2 layers of ply not cut. The outer layer grain wraps around the bend. It's my first time as well and it was marginal getting it to bend that sharp.... perhaps 2 layers of 1/4" kerfed would have been better.... I dont know, this did work though ;) i think I got lucky.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:16 am
by piperdown
narfi wrote: Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:11 am
piperdown wrote: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:28 am That is very cool!
I know about kerfing wood but never done it myself. How far into the wood do you have to cut?
There were 2 layers of ply not cut. The outer layer grain wraps around the bend. It's my first time as well and it was marginal getting it to bend that sharp.... perhaps 2 layers of 1/4" kerfed would have been better.... I dont know, this did work though ;) i think I got lucky.
Thanks!
Looking at that it got me thinking about making a more rounded console front instead of just a square one. Might look odd on a mostly flat panel boat like mine though.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:38 am
by narfi
I think it only takes a few things like that to really make a project look "personalized". But you are right, the look needs to be right for the effect to work.

Something else I did was kick the bottom of the front deck bulkhead forward 1-2" further forward than the top for more toe/leg room for the front seats.

Another way is well planned storage. I've toyed with the idea of wider gunnels by the front deck with compartments in them, not sure if it's worth the lost space though.

Cleats, flush rod holders and cup holders.....
99.99% of the time the boat will be beached or trailed, but there are times cleats can be useful. I've lashed a skiff to the side of a floatplane before to ferry it across the bay when the engine on the plane had been pickled and wasnt ready to run.

Flush mount cup holders and rod holders.... I'm not much of a fisherman, but Landon aspires to be. What is good placement for them? How many?

I did see a sweet propane grill designed to mount in a rod holder that would fit under the front deck... o.0

Electronics..... I'm clueless what is standard in the panel and what gives it that little bit of extra.

Upolstery. I plan to learn or have it done all matching, perhaps with the themed emblem stitched in it. (Alaska flag version of the big dipper and north star)

Paint stencils for the emblem as well, will need to figure out appropriate sizes for the hull and a few small ones on the interior in appropriate places without over doing it.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:23 pm
by thb
Narfi,

As far as electronics go, you might want to consider a gps/depth sounder/fish finder combo. Even though you live on a large lake, if it gets fogged in you could find your way home. Maybe you can see where the fish congregate. Don't know if VHF would be required in your area. Just a few thoughts. Tach, fuel qty gauge are about all that is required. If your gps/depth sounder is nmea 2000 compatible, you could hook up your engine to it and see everything under the sun that is going on with the engine.

Regards
Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:07 pm
by dalnilo
I really like it, I take notes. 😀😀

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:08 pm
by Jaysen
I may be contrarian...

I'd go with as little "permanent" as possible. Yes you need lights, engine controls, and a few gauges, but I'd focus on the simplest wiring possible. Consider using portable devices that can be mounted but leverage batteries and 12v (lighter) connections over hardwired. This will make diag and repair of electrical simpler. And, should you have and "oh sh!t" you'll have battery capabilities to allow you to contact/navigate.

Basically... KISS.

Keep in mind I'm also the guy that build a sail boat because modern motors are too complicated.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:06 pm
by narfi
Jaysen wrote: Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:08 pm
Basically... KISS.
This is KISS,

Image

I am beyond that.... I am building consoles and remote steering.......

I am used to working around/with this.....

Image

and this,

Image

and looking at this for my next build.....

Image

I dont like portable electronics in simi-permenant mounts, ive done and seen a lot of it, and it looks ugly and cheap.
I want to plan the panel out and make it look nice, then in a few years if I want to change it, I would rather just cut it all out and build a new one.

Now for a compromise between KISS and what I am used to working around which I cant afford :P
Does that make sense?

While we are on the subject, is there any good marine tracking devices? LIke Spidertracks, SPOT or Inreach? Something that looks clean permanently mounted, transmits whenever power is on, only needs pre-programed texts but linked to phone is an ok extra for reasonable 6month a year subscription prices?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:14 pm
by Jaysen
That's cool. Was just thinking about it from "we are out here, on our own and the danged GPS aint working and the boat sunk and the VHF is dead". To me your remoteness would suggest a less fixed approach.

And I fully understand wanting it to be nice.

I would also suggest that slick/complicated avionic systems actually demonstrate why I would go with something less pemament. Should you go down in a plane (assuming you survive) that built in radio may not work if the short in the GPS module pulls the supply to ground. But maybe I'm overly paranoid.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:16 pm
by narfi
That's the while point of spot, inreach, etc......

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:51 pm
by cape man
I was always a Garmin guy until they started selling their own proprietary maps and a unit needing repair was discontinued shorty after the warranty expired. I bought a Hummingbird GPS/depth finder unit that uses, and came loaded with Navionics and I love it. You can mount it with the supplied bracket mount, or flush in the face of the console. I have a fuel gauge and tach and a VHF radio. There are also connections and switches for bilge pump, bait well pump, and night lights under the gunwales and inside the bait well (same switch). Oh yeah...there's another set of wires and a switch just below the head of the throttle arm for the hydraulic jack plate. Don't know anything about Spot or Inreach...

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:44 pm
by narfi
cape man wrote: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:51 pm Don't know anything about Spot or Inreach...
They are basically a personal ELT with tracking and extras.
They transmit gps cords every 2-5min and momma, wife, girlfriend, interested friend, etc.. can watch your movement on the map at home on pc or phone.
The simplest comes with 3 buttons, 'OK', 'Need help but not life threatning', 'Emergency (sent not just to contacts specified, but to rescue services as well).
The more complex ones pair with your phone and can send/receive typed messages on demand.

They are commonly used by hikers, but all of our pilots have them and some contracts we have with a couple of planes require the hardwired spidertracks installed.

We will probably just buy a hiking one(looks like a small walkitalkie) but if there was an affordable permanent mount one, I would be interested in looking at it atleast. After the initial installation 2-300 a year is probably worth it for peace of mind for momma.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:15 pm
by OrangeQuest
To me if I depend on a motor to get me to and from then I want to know it's status. TEMP light, OIL pressure light are a must! My little Suzuki (when I get it) has them but I will be adding a tach that puts them at the console. VOLT meter to tell me the charging system and batteries are ok. Next would be depth, direction and speed (GPS/FF combo). Because I will be in coastal waters and around larger boats (ICW) I want a VHF that tells others where I'm at and I know where they are and where they are headed. Nav lights and 360 white light will be mounted on the boat, so it's always there.

KISS to me is getting seated at the helm, push a button and the motor lowers into the water, hit a key and she comes to life, move a level one way it goes that way and the more I move it the faster she goes. I want to glace down and know there is water under the keel, no red lights on and that everything is worry free.

As far as rod holders, ask the young man that fishes where he thinks they should be. :wink:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:47 pm
by narfi
Just got quoted $6167 for a new Mercury 60hp in Anchorage.
Sent a bunch of requests for quotes around this morning, but that seems promising.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:00 pm
by Jeff
Narfi, I do not know the Mercury brand very well, but comparing that price to a Yamaha, that seems very reasonable!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:01 pm
by Fuzz
Was that quote from BassPro? I think they are a dealer in Anchorage now. If not them it is one of the other big chain sports outlets.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:04 pm
by narfi
Yep the bass pro tracker boat shop.
They are roughly 2 blocks from Merrill field, so a great location for me to buy from.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:17 am
by silentneko
But what dI'd it include?

I checked with Basspro a whIle back and the motor was reasonable, but the controls, wiring harness, guages, prop, and rigging were another nearly $2k.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:55 am
by thb
Narfi,

Sea tow guy told my buddy that most tow ins are boats with either Yami or Merc. I would not want either and very good point about controls, tach, prop adding substantial $ to the deal.

Do you Sea Tow in Alaska or some similar service to rescue boaters whose engines quit?

Regards
Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:09 am
by joe2700
thb wrote: Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:55 am Sea tow guy told my buddy that most tow ins are boats with either Yami or Merc. I would not want either
I have my own opinions about those 2 brands but I will say they are by far the most common on manufactured boats around here. Even if they were the most reliable they would still make up most of the tow ins if they are on most boats to begin with.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:21 am
by narfi
thb wrote: Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:55 am

Do you Sea Tow in Alaska or some similar service to rescue boaters whose engines quit?

Regards
Tom
If you are missing a day or so people will come looking.
Most of the lake is under the flight path of our air taxi so a small plane will fly overhead several times a day, they might notice if you are in distress.
Times are obviously quicker if using something like SPOT or inreach.

I am aware all the parts will cost more, but that's true for any choice I make right?

Lots of Mercurys around here, I have no brand loyalty, but dont think that one new motor is more likely to be a lemon than the next brand of the big names.

There is a lot to read between the lines in statistics.
I could also say that all the 4wheelers I've seen broken down here were made by Honda.(4wheelers have traditionally been the main mode of transportation for families in this area) That doesnt mean Honda makes crappy 4wheelers, it means they are held in such high regard that they are the only brand people feel are worth the $1per pound it takes to get anything out here.

Edit: oops didnt see Joe's comment while I was typing, looks like he said the same thingish.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:43 pm
by silentneko
I agree completely. If more yamaha's are used in an area you'll see more of them at the service center. More mercs.......

The parts costing more will vary greatly by brand and dealers. Basspro discounts mercs to sell them, then hits you on the back end. Yamaha thinks their controls are made of gold. Honda isn't bad, but the motors cost more up front......

The biggest factor I've found is the size of the dealer. If it's a volume dealer you can talk them down a lot. A smaller dealer has limited inventory alloted to them so they can't discount.

As an example if memory serves international marine, huge volume dealership, quoted me $7100 for the zuke 60hp. That's fully rigged, digital guage, a custom lexan cover for the ignition of my choice, and stainless steel prop that can be exchanged. This requires me to drive 2.5 hours away.
The 2 local dealers quoted me $9500 and $8700 with basic rigging, and an aluminum prop, and no wet test.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:34 pm
by Jaysen
And those 2 locals have stranded shipping costs to recover (with interest) as well as higher labor costs (remote market). Add that too the volume and the local guys are never going to be as competitive in straight price comparison. Hopefully the locals can make up a bit in service. Although the no wet test ... that seems like an easy win for the locals.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:22 pm
by Fuzz
thb wrote: Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:55 am Narfi,

Sea tow guy told my buddy that most tow ins are boats with either Yami or Merc. I would not want either and very good point about controls, tach, prop adding substantial $ to the deal.

Do you Sea Tow in Alaska or some similar service to rescue boaters whose engines quit?

Regards
Tom
Like Narfi said Sea Tow or others like them are not available here. There are a couple of places where Seatow has started up. I think this is their first year. For me a stand alone kicker is mandatory. And that kicker gets run at the start of every trip. No point in having one if you do not know for sure it will run if needed.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:00 pm
by Jaysen
Just don't be me and drop the kicker in the drink after starting it. There's a reason I don't like motors.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:26 pm
by narfi
I am familiar with Garmin, but I also know they are overpriced and leverage lawyers to stay overpriced.

Raymarine - $730-1400 for 7 or 9 in screens - confusing about what their different transducer technologys are
https://www.amazon.com/Raymarine-Finder ... ducer&th=1

Garmin - $1000 for a 7in screen, dont think it includes a transducer
https://www.amazon.com/Garmin-ClearVu-T ... min+GPSMAP

Humminbird - $1000 for a 7in screen not clear on what if any transducer is included

Simrad GO7 - $700 for a 7in screen and TotalScan transducer
https://www.amazon.com/Simrad-Chartplot ... +totalscan

Simrad GO9 - $1100 for a 9in screen with TotalScan transducer
https://www.amazon.com/Simrad-GO9-Sonar ... simrad+go9

So..... not knowing anything about any of them,
the Simrad appears to give a little more for the dollar
the garmin gives a name i know
the humminbird comes in the ugliest package
the raymarine may be same value as the simrad but is more confusing.....

What sonar do I 'need', which of them has a better value for maps and user interfaces once it is purchased and installed?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:31 pm
by Jeff
Narfi, I bought a Garmin about 4 years ago and have been really happy with it. If I were to replace it, I would take a strong look at the Simrad. Simrad is almost as popular with the Florida fisherman and I think gaining a lot of ground quickly!! Just my thoughts!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:30 pm
by silentneko
The Simrad go7 is #2 on my list if I go with an nmea2k compatable unit. After a lengthy discussion on another board I was directed to the Lowrance Elite 7 ti. It's the best of the budget units, slightly better then the go7, and has some physical buttons, which become a bonus in the rain.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:24 pm
by Fuzz
Just my opinion but where you will be using that boat there is no need to spend a bunch of money for electronics. I like all the fancy stuff myself but I want the most needed bang for my buck. That being said there are units that give you depth, speed and location for under $150.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:33 pm
by thb
Narfi,

I went with a garmin echo map plus 6.4CV which came preloaded with coastal charts and chirp transducer. $549 from Garmin factory outlet store. It is nmea 2000 compatible.

I had Garmin on my last boat and still have a little garmin hand held gps and never had any problems. The price was right for the features it gave me. Who knows what it is like when all hooked up and boat launched.

Regards
Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:46 am
by narfi
6oz glass on the outside of the round boxes and console side panels.

12oz tape tabs on all the installed above sole bulkheads.
20180915_004257.jpg
I'm having really good luck with heating my epoxy before mixing even in these cooler evenings.

3 advil and a glass of water, its 12.30 and my back is killing me, hope I can sleep :p

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:29 am
by OrangeQuest
Your taping is looking very neat and clean.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:15 am
by Jeff
Yes, really nice work Narfi!!! Hope you get a good nights sleep!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:48 am
by Eric1
The boat is looking great! Look for a tinge unit for the back.
I bought one for my pains the amount of relief was amazing. :wink:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:29 am
by cape man
Looks good. Interesting layout.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:18 am
by piperdown
Moving right along!

Hear you on a sore back after working on something. Anymore I dread working on or under my vehicles since I know all kinds of body parts are going to be sore, but I have a hard time paying someone to do something I can do.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:29 am
by Bogieman
Looking really nice, Narfi!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:41 pm
by narfi
Cut all the excess off this morning while it's still green. Also cut out the areas covering the drain holes in the corners of each one, I'm sure it's easier with a razor while green that grinding out when cured.

No sun today and rain :( might be a couple days till this batch cures.....

Broke open a new role of 12oz tape last night. One side is very frayed and I dont like using it as much, it's much harder to wet out and likes to trap air and foam in the rough edges.
20181016_233555.jpg
20181016_233922.jpg

Any recommendations for good side scuppers?

I think the steering column is called the "helm"
Any good recommendations for that?

Amazon sells seastar kits, are they any good? Is tilt beneficial?
Example being Seastar SS177xx Xtreme NFB Tilt single cable steering kit. - $348.32 Prime

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:51 pm
by Jaysen
I bet amazon hates prime delivery to you.

“Who said this guy could get free delivery!?!? Do you know how much delivery by sled dog costs!?!”

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:14 pm
by narfi
They are putting more restrictions on shipping than they used to. I wasnt able to get any tires shipped here a few weeks ago.

After so many sunny days I forgot I had already solved the curing heat issue.
20181017_002859.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:10 pm
by Jeff
Narfi, sorry to hear that, any specific reason for the new restrictions??? Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:18 pm
by thb
Narfi,
What is your nearest town and how far away is it?

Regards
Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:20 pm
by thb
Narfi,
What is your nearest town and how far away is it?

Regards
Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:28 pm
by narfi
Jeff wrote: Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:10 pm Narfi, sorry to hear that, any specific reason for the new restrictions??? Jeff
Because they loose money shipping items for free to my location.
thb wrote: Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:18 pm Narfi,
What is your nearest town and how far away is it?

Regards
Tom
Anchorage, 150 miles by air, no roads.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:37 pm
by Jaysen
That means delivery by bush pilots, dog sleds, or tamed bear. Right?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:54 pm
by narfi
Jaysen wrote: Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:37 pm That means delivery by bush pilots, dog sleds, or tamed bear. Right?
The most common mail plane to deliver here is the cessna 207.
Fuel and large freight charters(cars and house building supplies) is DC-6 or C-46

The company I work for moves people on a wide variaty of aircraft.

Stinson 10A
Stinson 108
Cessna 180 - on floats
Cessna 206s - on floats
Cessna 207s - on floats
Beech Bonanza
Piper Navajos
Beech 99s
King Air and Beech 100

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:03 pm
by Jaysen
Sounds like the trained bear market is wide open!

It’s easy to forget how easy things are in the lower 48.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:04 am
by fallguy1000
You can remove that slitter fray. Taking a half inch off won't void your warranty!

If you are doubling; you never supposed to direct overlap anyhow.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:55 am
by narfi
2 nights of sanding and I have the edges of all the tapes knocked down.
20180916_233745.jpg
Next up...
Install supports for the front deck and the bow compartment.
Then cut out the tops for them, I tentatively drew out an approximate of them on a sheet of plywood the other night, I can cut both from one sheet, but just barely.

Cut the hatch for the bow compartment and glue on hatch supports for both of those compartments.

There are some fancy hatches built here on the forum, but I think I will stick with the simple ones in the plans. I have a hood route for water to drain and dont think I need them 100% water proof.

The rear bulkhead for the front deck, the one I cut the hatch out of...... obviously not 3" of clearance on top..... would a single 1x2 vertically there be enough support or should I stack 2 of them for a 2x2?

Meanwhile I also need to glue and glass in the center panels for the consoles and seat boxes.

I need to figure out placement of the sloped panel in the motorwell, for some reason I still haven't wrapped my head around the geometry there, I think I probably need to "just do it".

Then the bottom panels for the compartments beside the motorwell and the tops and hatches for them.

Need to build up the support for the ubolt on the bow and over drill and fill the holes for them on both bow and transom.

I seem to alternate days thinking the end is in sight and thinking there is another 2years of work left.......

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:39 am
by Fuzz
I see you are up late working on the boat :D
Don't worry as long as it is a step forward it is one step closer to being done. You have a clean well thought out build going, keep up the good work.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:09 am
by Eric1
Way to go Narfi! You are doing great!! :D

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:05 am
by OrangeQuest
narfi wrote: Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:55 am The rear bulkhead for the front deck, the one I cut the hatch out of...... obviously not 3" of clearance on top..... would a single 1x2 vertically there be enough support or should I stack 2 of them for a 2x2?
I can not answer that question other than it needs to hold up to people stepping in the area.

Great looking build! Sand much? :D

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:45 am
by thb
Narfi,

I think the option of 1x2, then layer of biax in vertical plane and then another layer of 1x2 on top of that in the vertical plane, then biax in the horizontal plane top and bottom. I found 17-08 is really strong for something like this. Since top will be covered anyway the added thickness will not matter. So basically you have created a box of glass around the area which should give you the bending strength you will need in this area.

Of course I overbuild everything, but that is the Boeing Field Service Rep background and Mechanical Engineer in me. I have seen how things fail my whole career in aviation.

Boy you have a lot of fiberglass epoxy dust from all that sanding.

Regards
Tom in Steinhatchee

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:38 am
by Capt UB
I see guys down here on the flats, with big color fish finders.... in 3" of water? Fuzz is so right, spend the money on the poles/reels and your wife/girlfriend.... Although a very good GPS with maps and downloading capabilities would work for me.

Bob.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:49 am
by OrangeQuest
Capt UB wrote: Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:38 am I see guys down here on the flats, with big color fish finders.... in 3" of water? Fuzz is so right, spend the money on the poles/reels and your wife/girlfriend.... Although a very good GPS with maps and downloading capabilities would work for me.

Bob.
I still have my Cuda 250 S/map GPS/FF. the transducer was mounted in the bow of my Hobie so I could see the depth change as I paddle over it, not after I did. Christmas Bay is very shallow, most of it is less than 3', but the depth finder showed me very shallow valleys, holes, structure and channels that I would never see without the depth gauge. You can also tell what kind of bottom you are over without having to probe with a paddle or pole. I like to find a channel and anchor shallow but have the bow over the channel so I could see the fish down in the channel, can't do that with the transducer mounted on the stern. Anything shallower than 18", maybe a little less, it became useless. We now use it on the canoe but it is mounted on the transom.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:38 pm
by fallguy1000
I won't leave the dock on Superior if the sounders aren't working.

I use two and always tweak them against each other for the best signal.

I have seen a fish down as deep as 110 fow and caught it.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:58 am
by narfi
thb wrote: Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:45 am
Boy you have a lot of fiberglass epoxy dust from all that sanding.

Regards
Tom in Steinhatchee
I'm just a poor boy out in the sticks. Dont have all those fancy dust collectin' machines that the city folk like you and Fuzz have......
20180918_004513.jpg
My plan tonight was to sweep up and tidy things a little, then start marking, measuring, and cutting supports for the front deck and bow compartment and the motorwell and side compartments.

I swept up and realized I have bare wood in the motorwell and sides still........ so I spent the evening sanding down the tape edges in all the rear compartments in preparation to cover it all with 6oz cloth. I am really regretting not glassing ALL panels horizontally before installing :p oh well live and learn.

I also sanded the edges of the glassed panels for the sides of the console boxes and took the braces off the rounded seat boxes. They are stiffer than a flat piece of 3/8 without kerfs now so I am happy. I didnt have them braced perfectly square, so will need to shim them slightly when gluing in place and then sanding the top edge down square but that should be pretty easy.

By the end of the evening I was able to sit where the captains seat should go and make engine noises......(there goes my productivity for the rest of the year....)
20180918_004556.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:52 am
by OrangeQuest
Still looking good Narfi!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:33 am
by thb
Narfi,

Maybe you can use all that dust instead of wood flour. put it in a baggy and save it for the next time you run out of wood flour. Like I told Fuzz, I hate wearing a dust mask.

I have to put more glass on my stringers in the bilge due to previous builder did not fully cover them. Pain to install glass on vertical surfaces compared to horizontal ones hey.

I tried to figure out on google where you were based on fact that you were 150 miles from Anchorage with a big airport and on a big long lake. West is King Salmon and Naknek Lake. Os that it?

You can see my place on Google maps if you search 1428 Hidden Road.

Regards
Tom in
Steinhatchee

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:07 am
by fallguy1000
That is really looking like it is gonna be a boat now.

When you take the helm chair; you can play outboard motor noise on the iphone.

How do you get the internet there?

And I had the same question about where you call home.

You can google my place on google earth if you like, but not nearly as exciting as a massive Alaskan lake.

11960 Albavar Path
Inver Grove Height, MN 55077
You'll see putting green and 160yd tee.
Don't mention I gave my address out to Mrs.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:42 pm
by narfi
I decided I dont need to buy the motor, I just need to commit to a brand and buy all the cabling etc...
Would like to order all the electrical stuff as well, so was reading the wiring diagram that comes with the plans.

I am a sheet metal guy who can do basic engine troubleshooting (in my profession) but electrical stuff has been my bane (though I still do it a fair bit as well).
Is there some sort of standard for marine wiring? what gauge wire is normal?

Also in the diagram I see the main bus is hot all the time.... I am used to a master relay/solenoid between the battery and bus, is there a standard for this? or a typical relay that is used?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:11 pm
by Jaysen
Typically there is a mains switch (could be a key driving a relay). All the ones I've seen are for multiple battery setups and have A, OFF, B, BOTH settings. All that I've seen are between the batteries and the main distribution bar. On boats with house vs motor batt banks I've seen multiple main switches but I don't know the configurations.

I'm partial to the relay switches running on a diode protected lawn tractor batt. That may take more explanation. I've only seen that on BIG boats though.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:45 pm
by narfi
This is what I am talking about..... excuse the ms paint drawing o.0
relay.jpg
relay.jpg (25.8 KiB) Viewed 2022 times
I haven't bought the control box yet for the engine so not sure how the key is wired. I kind of like the idea of a separate switch to isolate the battery though since it is more what I am used to... but should stick with a standard for small boats if there is such a thing....

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:56 pm
by fallguy1000
Narfi - there is a good Coast guard document that can help.

Wire gauging is serious business and a leading cause of fires in boats.

The CG doc I have only governs non-outboards, but its rules for wire sizing are appropriate for ALL boats.

If someone can find any CG doc for obs, let me know.

This is 90 pages and you need to filter through the irrelevant bits, but wire sizing is right.
https://www.uscgboating.org/regulations ... TRICAL.pdf

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:57 pm
by Jaysen
Yep. Seen that. Most are just using a high amp switch though. Now that I think about it, those switches might have internal circuits that do something similar. Doesn’t feel like it, but could be.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:02 pm
by fallguy1000
btw, I really like battery isolation ...

My Raymarine Dragonfly finder has an autostart cycle. And the second it gets power; it begins to draw battery power and it will bring down the starting cycle; perhaps overnite. It is in a case and I don't see it on.

I almost always flip off the battery. The swith I use is on the battery and a real pita to see and verify status.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:11 pm
by OrangeQuest
Here is a source of good articles on boat wiring and protection. West Marine also has some good articles on wire size, the distances the wire has to go and so on.
https://www.bluesea.com/support/articles

https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/ ... Tech-Specs

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:49 pm
by narfi
http://www.bestboatwire.com/media/catal ... -Table.pdf

Is length the length of a single cable or the length of the entire circuit(power + ground)?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:01 pm
by Jaysen
For battery cables, one cable.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:22 pm
by OrangeQuest
This will help you with that question Narfi
https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/ ... d-Ampacity

When I was trying to figure the wire size and length I needed I went up in the amperage to next higher and also added a few feet on each end. It is always better to have bigger wire than you need than less. But circuit protection I figured the correct rating.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:26 pm
by narfi
I have a picture of this thing in my head, but dont even know if it exists......

a plastic square 1"x1" with reinforcement ridges from corner to corner making an X, the center of the X is notched so that a small ziptie can slide through it, the back is flat with some sort of mat or cloth bonded to it so you can epoxy it to composite structures, or perhaps some super strong 3m tape..... Is there such a thing? i can imagine buying a bag of 50 or something, would be real handy to keep wires cleanly routed without any metal hardware.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:32 pm
by fallguy1000
Amps!

If you run a hot wire from the battery; it must be large enough for all the amperage in the distribution.

So, let's say you have lights, and a fishfinder, and a charging station, and a horn.

You add up all the amp draw of each item. For semantics; lets say it is X amps.

The wire running from the battery must go to the distribution panel and be rated for X amps.

After the distribution panel, each wire mist be rated for the current draw of each item. Typically fuses are at the distribution panel.

This is to prevent fire. If you run really thin wire and no fuses; the amps will be too high in the wire and melt things and possibly catch fire.

Of course grounding is also relevant.

iirc, 8" is considered device pigtail

You basically run a big wire about #6 up to your fuse panel from the battery. Then about #16 wire to most else. This is a gross oversimplification, but generally close for a fishing boat.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:34 pm
by fallguy1000
narfi wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:26 pm I have a picture of this thing in my head, but dont even know if it exists......

a plastic square 1"x1" with reinforcement ridges from corner to corner making an X, the center of the X is notched so that a small ziptie can slide through it, the back is flat with some sort of mat or cloth bonded to it so you can epoxy it to composite structures, or perhaps some super strong 3m tape..... Is there such a thing? i can imagine buying a bag of 50 or something, would be real handy to keep wires cleanly routed without any metal hardware.
Yes. I have some or had some. If noone else replies, I'll try to find the name of them in an hour or so. Dinner time and resting my nasty bad hip.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:37 pm
by fallguy1000
https://www.amazon.com/Adhesive-Backed- ... B06XNBS6TG

I don't like these much Narfi.

They did not do well with any pounding mounted upside down. They did perform on sode mountings.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:50 pm
by fallguy1000
Thickened epoxy might hold them.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:54 pm
by Jaysen
I’m not taking a contrarian view, just expressing an opinion.

I don’t like the “add it all up and that’s what you need” approach. Saw folks do that in Jeep land only to melt wires. Actually helped build one that did that.

After that I started suggesting “use the max amperage of the bus’s and use that to determine wire size”. Problem is you get some STUPID wire sizes. Basically it turns into using the largest wire you can and still make the bends.

The reason I think this is smart is you never have the real risk of meltdown of the battery cables. You also know that you can add things later without worrying about how much capacity you have in the mains.

It’s an opinion. That’s all. Only worth as much as you paid for it. ;)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:57 pm
by narfi
Thanks, glad im not crazy inventing something in my head that doesn't exist :P

They are cheap, so ill stick them in the cart.... wonder how the backing would react with epoxy, might have to experiment :P

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:58 pm
by fallguy1000
Jaysen wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:54 pm I’m not taking a contrarian view, just expressing an opinion.

I don’t like the “add it all up and that’s what you need” approach. Saw folks do that in Jeep land only to melt wires. Actually helped build one that did that.

After that I started suggesting “use the max amperage of the bus’s and use that to determine wire size”. Problem is you get some STUPID wire sizes. Basically it turns into using the largest wire you can and still make the bends.

The reason I think this is smart is you never have the real risk of meltdown of the battery cables. You also know that you can add things later without worrying about how much capacity you have in the mains.

It’s an opinion. That’s all. Only worth as much as you paid for it. ;)
There is nothing wrong with this approach, but you need an idea about the bus to start with!

So, you amp add and plan to distribution panel size (they are spendy to buy much more than needed), then wire the max rating of the fuse panel. Totally good way to go.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:09 pm
by narfi
@Jayson
I decided on 0 Gauge for the battery/alternator so that should be conservative.
I decided on 10 gauge for the 'bulk' wire for most of the other stuff which allows 15amps up to 20ft with only 3% drop. I cant think of anything that will use that much power that far away so should also be conservative. 5amp usb charger on passenger side is the biggest and furthest I can think of.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:17 pm
by Jaysen
No one ever died from “the wire gauge was over sized!” I think you’re heading. The right direction there.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:20 pm
by Jaysen
Radio might pull a lot of amps. Trim tabs too. And surprisingly wiper motors draw a lot. For you though it would be motor lift or anchor lift that would be the big ones.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:40 pm
by narfi
What lighting is required?
The red/green light at the bow and a 360degree one on the stern tall enough to be truely 360 degrees?
A pole standing up is kind of ugly, is there other alternatives that are easy and cheap?

Edit: Just googled Lund promotional videos since I know there are a lot of them around here and I have never seen lights..... I didnt see any in the videos either, how does that work? Are any required?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:38 pm
by fallguy1000
Use LEDs

Internal lights are super nice; especially when you don't have them. Need one at the helm and another at a forward seat.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:04 am
by narfi
Yes of course led. And yes I'll have lights under the gunnel and in all compartments.

But my question is about required navigation lights. Are they required or not? Do I need to have a pole with a 360degree white light or not? Do I need the red and green lights on the bow?

If I am required to, then why do these other boats I see not have them?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:51 am
by narfi
I figured out the answer.
It's not the manufacture, store or dealers responsibility how your boat is lit if you go out at night or in fog, its yours.

The solution is a stainless 2 prong socket that the pole and light slide into when needed. You dont need it installed for daytime operations.

Shoreline Marine Base Stern Light Stainless Steel Round (Steel) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004LR4IHE/re ... OBbNKYGQE1

Shoreline Marine Adjustable All-Around Stern Light, 28-49" https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VAJ2E4A/re ... OBbQWNENX7

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:31 am
by fallguy1000
I have two mountable sockets in my boat.

The light for the bow has a holster near the bow and the stern (all around) light is kept in the rod box bottom.

I keep the front post hot and unfused. Light is on in the socket. Aft light is switchable. Good wiring would have them both fused/switched..

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:19 am
by thb
Narfi,

When I rigged my production boat 10 years ago, I used that type of plug in 360 deg light and first thing that happens is the rubber cover comes off and then the socket is just a water trap. Mine was switched and fused but still not a good arrangement unless you have some way to keep it dry. Plug in light pole is cool but socket is the issue.

I went with a fold down LED light on my current build which is only 10 or 12 inches high and I will probably mount it on the starboard transom compartment surface so when it is folded down it does not get in the way of anything else. I could probably mount it on the vertical surface of the coaming at the starboard rear corner.

I need to get out to the shop and get something done today as yesterday was 6 hours on the road to pick up the yamaha 30 hp motor in Deland from Capt UB.

Regards
Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:45 am
by fallguy1000
Those sockets are made many ways.

The Perkos have a sliding plastic cover. My Lund had the chrome lid that twists break off on the front and I replaced it with the Perko. It has a drain iirc.

The sockets are replacable.

Put the light sockets where they can drain to the bilge or sole.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:50 am
by OrangeQuest
On our canoe of 3 years old, the 360 light and the nav lights plug into plastic sockets. They do have the rubber lids. We have not had any problems with the lids coming off and the bow takes a lot of abuse from anything from rescues to cutting out log jams. Needed the bow to stay flush as possible with nothing sticking up to snag anything or anyone. I do keep them dabbed with dielectric grease and work it into the pin sockets very good. They do have drain holes in the bottom of the sockets to keep water from collecting. Not only does this thing spend time in fresh water but it has seen a lot of rough salt water too. Just about every time we go out into the bays and passes water is coming over the bow. After all it is a canoe in places it shouldn't be in. 8O

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:58 am
by Jaysen
There are the clamp on battery operated models... Not saying they are good, but the price and ability to not have holes might be attractive. If you want "good ones" you can get them with internal LiPo that charge via USBc cables. Typical run time is 15hr+. I'll probably be using one on Lil Bit should I ever get the opportunity to plan overnight trips.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:17 am
by narfi
Good info guys, love this forum and everyone willing to help me as I learn!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:16 pm
by TomW1
Narfi if you want to go the pole and socket way I believe I still have a set home in NC that you can have for the cost of shipping. I don't remember the brand as they were for the C17 that never got built when I bought my OD18. I will be home from Iowa on Oct. 8 and check then if you are interested.

Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:06 pm
by narfi
TomW1 wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:16 pm Narfi if you want to go the pole and socket way I believe I still have a set home in NC that you can have for the cost of shipping. I don't remember the brand as they were for the C17 that never got built when I bought my OD18. I will be home from Iowa on Oct. 8 and check then if you are interested.

Tom
Thats a great offer, and I probably would have taken you up on it, but just pulled the trigger on the Amazon cart.... $2500 of stuff, hopefully the last big purchase besides the motor and trailer.

Helm and steering cable
Mercury control box
shift and power cables
steering wheel
fuse box
master relay
wire
ends and shrink wrap
zipties and the in theory ziptie fastners to see how they work
switch box with voltmeter and usb charger
cup holders
rod holders
cleats
bow red/green light
socket and pole 360degree light
hinges and latches
Simrad go7 w/ totalscan transducer
passenger side usb chargers
and a few other bits and pieces......

if I dont like the socket and pole I get, I may still check back in with you though, thanks a lot :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:21 pm
by OrangeQuest
USB chargers!
I have a power socket my fishing buddy plugged his charger and phone into it one early morning. We set out to cross the pass from the safety of the marina predawn. Close to small craft warning conditions. Couldn't see where the waves were coming from due to the darkness but could see them coming over the bow! After we took a few waves he started telling me he could smell smoke and just as I looked down his cable lite up bright orange!

The power point had a 10 amp fuse but it didn't take to much seawater to short out the phone connection! I took shelter in one of the channels till day light. But I thought I was going to fall out of the boat from laughing so hard. In short, USB ports and water don't mix to well! :D

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:34 pm
by narfi
OrangeQuest wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:21 pm USB ports and water don't mix to well! :D
Electricity and water dont mix well.....
But usb is a better standard than cigar lighters imo....
There are times where it is handy, so while I agree it should be properly protected, its a luxury I want to add.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:53 pm
by OrangeQuest
Reason I put a power port was to recharge the VHF handheld and things like that. I even have a little USB charger that plugs into it. I just have to limit who uses it!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:08 pm
by Jaysen
Solution to prevent flaming electronics is to mount the connections "under" protective cover. Think the top of a compartment that is sloped to prevent water ingress. My neighbor's sportsman does this to prevent splashes into the UBS and 12v ports. Can be a PITA to get a cable inserted but ...

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:29 pm
by OrangeQuest
My power port is protected, it was his phone that he set on the deck at the bow. He was lucky it didn't toast his phone. Later that day he set the phone on his tackle box lid. He opened the lid and we both hear "PLOP", he asked where his phone was. I told him the depth gauge says two feet below us! Shortly afterwards we practiced him climbing back into the boat. Later that day we practiced again in 3 feet of water. I was like Red on "That 70's show" talking to his son. :?

I always turn my phone off, put it in a dry bag and then in a dry locker.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:38 pm
by Jaysen
Seems to me he was trying to tell the world he didn't really need a phone...

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:12 pm
by narfi
More epoxy and wood flour from BBC arrived today, so no excuse not to work in the tent tonight after work :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:23 pm
by Jeff
USPS did good Narfi!!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:27 pm
by narfi
Jeff wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:23 pm USPS did good Narfi!!!! Jeff
Yessir! Thank you!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:39 am
by narfi
Glassed the motorwell and side compartment sides all with 6oz tonight.

Then glued the sides of the console boxes in place.

Then glued two pieces of 1x2 along the top of the rear bulkhead for the fordeck and a 1x1 14 5/8" up the rear side of the bow compartment bulkhead. With those in place I will be able to lay in the side supports and keep them aligned more easily.

Thinking I will run two 1x2s fore and aft (parallel with the steingers) 24" apart for additional support for that deck as well as using 12oz cloth on the underside of it.

No pictures sorry, had the plastic pulled over it all and electric heater going before I thought about pictures.

I am doing this all half fast (dont say "half fast" to quickly or it may lower your opinion of my work...) I've mixed fast and medium hardener half n half and using that mix as my hardener with the normal ratio of 2 parts part A and one part hardener. Seems to be working for me so far :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:14 am
by Eric1
Good progress friend!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:35 am
by OrangeQuest
It is hard for me to think about heaters and covers when walking into a warehouse that is high 70's before the sun comes up! Keep up the good work but don't get so busy you can't snap a picture or two! :D

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:47 pm
by narfi
Good news is it cured hard......... however......

Well here are pictures of my failure :)

Lesson learned, don't apply heat to cold wood until after the epoxy has had time to at least partially cure.
20180920_092217.jpg
20180920_092230.jpg
20180920_092240.jpg
20180920_092316.jpg
most of the bubbles are outside the glass, so its just a matter of sanding and recoating with epoxy to ensure its sealed, but there are more than a few spots that developed bubbles under the glass that need to be cutout and fixed.
None of this area 'requires' glass, and none of the bubbles under the glass are larger than a quarter, so I will probably just cut them out and recoat with epoxy and fair in with the rest. Still.... frustrating stayed up till 1 last night getting that all done and now probably 1-2 more nights fixing what I did :/

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:47 pm
by Fuzz
Yep that is a pain. Sorry it happened to you. At this point I think I would but a light coat over any wood I was going to glass and let it go off before doing the glassing.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:48 pm
by Eric1
Damn Narfi, That just sucks. Sorry this happened. :(

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:12 pm
by fallguy1000
I like milled fiber n epoxy for those repairs.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:21 pm
by joe2700
I experienced this last winter. I found you can avoid it by heating the space slightly higher than the temperature you will let it cure at before applying the epoxy. Then as it cools it pulls the epoxy in a little instead of pushing bubbles out.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:38 pm
by Jeff
Sorry Narfi!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:57 pm
by narfi
The beauty of this system is I can screw up pretty badly, and its still easy to fix ;)
Just takes time and a little sanding and a little filling....

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:09 pm
by Jeff
Good attitude Narfi and that is why your boat will be great!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:12 pm
by narfi
Landon dug a fish out of a mudhole a week or two ago, and it wont die.....
He went back the next day to get another one, but it had all dried up and a bunch of dead fish laying around in it, so retrospect he 'saved' this one.
20180921_084822.jpg
20180921_084844.jpg
Glued in the side supports for the front deck, made some makeshift clamps out of scrap clamped to the side of the boat and a stick wedged between them.
20180921_085139.jpg


Here are the results of my 'repair' of the bubbled fiasco.
the worst blisters were below the floor there, so sealed now is good enough, the smaller ones are above the floor and will need to be filled and faired more, but are sealed now.
20180921_085009.jpg
20180921_085045.jpg
Made a test piece for some led strips out of a scrap I had left over from the floor supports, will plug it into a 12v battery at work today and see how much light it puts out and if it seems to heat up any. (from what I have read there is no issue with heat doing this, but I want to test it still.)
20180921_084918.jpg
20180921_084938.jpg
However I end up doing it, wont be in that deep of groove, but lesson learned the strips float in epoxy,(I had to keep poking it down as it began to cure) so would need to glue them down well before coating.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:46 pm
by narfi
Tested the light strip at coffee break and set it under a work table facing down, it gives decent light without being overpowering, so I am happy.
Left it plugged in for 15 minutes while we drank coffee and it was barely warmer than body temperature so no worries with heat either.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:48 pm
by piperdown
That's an interesting idea of the LED's in a shallow panel, I like it! Until I read how you did it, it didn't occur to me to have clear epoxy to seal it in.
We need a greedy hands smiley cause I'm going to steal this idea.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:04 pm
by narfi
piperdown wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:48 pm That's an interesting idea of the LED's in a shallow panel, I like it! Until I read how you did it, it didn't occur to me to have clear epoxy to seal it in.
We need a greedy hands smiley cause I'm going to steal this idea.
Im still thinking about how to do it, havent figured out a final plan yet....

Would be nice just to route a small groove in the underside of the gunnal deck and seal the LED strip in before installing the deck, but I am afraid that would weaken it some and I dont want that.

Another idea is just to glue it directly to the bottom of the deck and brush epoxy over it.

Another idea would be to rip thin 'light fixtures' with routed grooves in them like smaller scale versions of my test piece and then glue them in place and wire the fixtures together....

Still thinking I guess, would be open to suggestions :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:25 pm
by OrangeQuest
Cut your groove for the strip to be flush. Tape very light weight glass over it and then neat epoxy. the strip will stick to the glass and not move around and you will have a very smooth finish. If it is like a molding then it should still be flexible enough to follow slight curves as long as the light will also bend.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:48 am
by narfi
Installed floor supports for motorwell and both side compartments.

Had just enough thickened epoxy left to spotweld the first of the rounded seat boxes in place. Hard to see in the picture but because I didnt brace it square I needed to raise one side about 1/4" to be flush with the flat panels, will be easy to sand the top down flush once glued and taped into place.


20180922_005214.jpg
20180922_005250.jpg

20180922_005313.jpg
20180922_005417.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:53 pm
by Jeff
Nice work Narfi!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:55 pm
by narfi
Just read this,
reefie wrote: Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:56 am I wrap the one I am dispensing from (including the hardener) in an electric blanket with 3 heat settings and I adjust the setting according to the ambient temp. If the resin is too warm, it will be nice and runny to begin with, but begins to exotherm and reduces your working time before gelling commences. Too cold, and it is too thick and hard to wet out easily and properly.

it is a great idea for working in less than ideal temperatures :)
I have also considered building an insulated pump box with a light bulb for heat with a thermostat in it, but that is a project for another project i think.....

Was sick on the couch all weekend so no progress to report, hopefully back at it tonight or tomorrow night.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:19 pm
by Jeff
Narfi, I hope you you feel better soon!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:19 pm
by Jeff
Narfi, I hope you you feel better soon!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:15 pm
by Fuzz
Good time to take the night off if the wind is blowing at your place like it is here. Not sure how hard it is blowing but it is hard enough to shake the whole house :help:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:26 am
by GuyP
Love the rounded seat box. I’ll put that on my idea list. 😎. Still 90 degrees here in Georgia USA (not Soviet Ga closer to you)

Guy

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:33 am
by narfi
@Fuzz our place is really protected back in the trees 1/2 mile from the lake, so wind doesnt bother us much. We did have lightning and thunder yesterday morning which is pretty rare here though.

@GuyP
Thanks, I'm happy with it so far. Credit goes to my wife though, I told her I was putting swivel seats on boxes there and she said she didnt want to hit her knees on the corners.

I won't see 90f till next May when we cruise to the Caribbean again.....
Speaking of which, if we had an extra day in fort Lauderdale, anyone building a boat close that wants to show off? How far is that from BBC? I think a little further than practical by uber? Any suggestions or ideas? Any interest in an unofficial cruise/builders convention mid May?

Cut the floor panels for the motorwell and 2 side compartments. Coated all the supports and undersides of the panels with epoxy and installed with thickened epoxy. Funny thing, the last batch of woodflour made a peanut butter looking mix, this batch looks like nutella when mixed.
20180926_000827.jpg
20180926_000756.jpg
20180926_000851.jpg
Taped the inside seams of the console boxes.
20180926_001058.jpg
Finished gluing in the rounded seat boxes and fillets along the bottom in and out.
20180926_001004.jpg
Tested 3 options for the ziptie fasteners I got to see how well they stick.
20180926_001140.jpg
Most of my big amazon order came. Pretty happy with how it looks so far. Not sure about the 10guage wire though it seems really big for basic things.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:09 am
by Eric1
Glad you're feeling better. Your boat work is good as always. :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:31 am
by Jeff
Narfi, our new location, of which we are not in yet due to waiting on permitting, will be about 1.5 hours from Fort Lauderdale!! Keep us up to date on your trip plans back to the caribbean!! Nice work on your boat!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:01 am
by Dougster
Smart move on the zip tie fasteners. Mine tend to peel off with the middle option (original foam tape). I like the rounded seat boxes too.

Dougster

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:37 pm
by TomW1
Narfi 14 guage is a good all around guage for most things. 8 or 6 guage for a trolling motor. 18 guage for lights and small draw things.

Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:08 pm
by R00kie
All of my service wiring is 12 gauge marine tinned. I went with that because the connections seemed more robust than those with smaller wire. I used a professional grade crimper and heat shrink tubing on butt joints and heat shrink crimp on lugs for bus/terminal connections. Battery cables and TM cables are much bigger. Don't remember the gauges but they were conservatively sized

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:11 pm
by OrangeQuest
I ordered 8 gauge for my primary wires and I was thinking it's to small 8O. If a round trip from my battery to my power distribution panel is 20 feet it only lets me get to 20 amps for a 3% voltage drop. Worse case I want all the battery has going to my safety gear.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:23 pm
by narfi
Ok, lets make a list of everything I need power for.....

Starter and Alternator Cables - I got 0 gauge (plenty big enough)

LED post socket <10ft from battery
LED bow light(red/green combo) < 15ft from battery
LED strip lights under gunnels and hatches


Fuel Sender opposite side of the boat from battery so ~25ft routed length

5amp USB charger and ??amp cigar lighter on right console 1-2ft from battery
5amp USB charger(maybe allow for 2?) at left console ~ 25ft routed

Fishfinder on right console ~2ft from battery

What is critical? What is needed? What am I missing?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:31 pm
by OrangeQuest
Bilge pump if your boat has one.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:52 pm
by narfi
OrangeQuest wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:31 pm Bilge pump if your boat has one.
Nope, no where on my boat for water to collect.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:04 pm
by OrangeQuest
I am guessing the 10ga is your primary wires going to your fuse panel? If so you have room to grow! :)
When your son gets older he may want to add a bait well with a pump or under water lights, maybe a stereo system with a few amps. Your electrical system will be able to grow.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:13 pm
by narfi
Right... So I bought several rolls of wire of which I need about a 2ft run from the battery to the fuse panel. Then I need to buy some more appropriately sized wire to run out from there. :P

I am learning. (slowly)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:56 pm
by TomW1
narfi wrote: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:23 pm Ok, lets make a list of everything I need power for.....

Starter and Alternator Cables - I got 0 gauge (plenty big enough)

LED post socket <10ft from battery
LED bow light(red/green combo) < 15ft from battery
LED strip lights under gunnels and hatches


Fuel Sender opposite side of the boat from battery so ~25ft routed length

5amp USB charger and ??amp cigar lighter on right console 1-2ft from battery
5amp USB charger(maybe allow for 2?) at left console ~ 25ft routed

Fishfinder on right console ~2ft from battery

What is critical? What is needed? What am I missing?
Why are you taking everything from the battery. Take 10GA with an inline fuse from battery to a positive terminal block in the console and run everything from there and back to a negative one also. Easier to mark the wires and lesser runs for most. Can run very short runs or one to switch block. You should have gotten a basic wiring diagram with the plans that show this. I am not at home or I would take a picture and show you my OD's very well done one by Cracker Larry. Maybe someone else will see this and show theirs. You can use a fuse block as the fish finder will need a separate fuse either in line or at a fuse block. On/off switches for everything lights, fishfinder, most Blue Sea ones are fused. Large main fuse or circuit breaker close to main switch and you will need a main switch near the motor. You will need to use various electrical fittings and heat shrink at the end of the runs depending on how they attach.

It looks like you have remembered to include the lengths for the positive and negative runs in your calculation lengths.

For everyone here are two tables that basically show the same thing in two different ways on how many amps a wire of a certain size can carry. That is a positive and a negative lead. This will I hope put some of your misgivings to rest. :) The same tables can be found at other sites. To use the calculator you need to read the amount of voltage drop allowed in the text, 3% for lights and other critical equipment and 10% lighters and non-critical equipment.

http://www.bestboatwire.com/voltage-drop-calculator


Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:26 am
by thb
Narfi,

This is what I am doing:

led lights 18 gauge duplex
fuel sender 18 gauge duplex ( my nmea2000 sensor for fuel qty uses even smaller wires )
cig lighter outlet and usb's would use 14 gauge duplex
nav lights and anchor lights are led's so 18 gauge for them as well.
vhf will use 14 gauge.
depth sounder /gps 16 gauge should be plenty big enough.
Bilge pump 16 gauge triplex.
Everything in the console will run from distribution blocks to fuse panel to switch panel.

main battery cables 6 gauge from batteries to batt switch and console ground to right rear compartment to hook up to engine starter cables. Approx 10 feet. My 36 volt golf cart is wired with 6 gauge and it draws a ton of amps. I had some 2 gauge wire but figured it was way to big.


You can spend money real quick buying marine wires as I must have spent 300 already. another 200 for distribution blocks, fuse panel and switch panel and connectors. Only advise I have is buy the next larger spool size than what you think you will need as it is a pain to run out of wire and in your case wait for delivery.

Regards
Tom in Steinhatchee

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:06 pm
by TomW1
When I was showing the table from www.bestboatwire.com last night I forgot to mention that they also have about the best prices on the web. Cracker Larry used them and others that built there boats 6-12 years ago. I noticed they have not been mentioned recently. They will also custom make your battery cable from 4/0 to 2. There wire is tin coated individually stranded copper the best there is. Remember red, they have been trying to change it to yellow, in a boat is the hot line and the negative is an other color that denotes the function. I always remember brown for bilge pumps but forget the rest and have to look them up.

Any wise take a hard look at there wire, connector and custom work prices. There are somethings they do not carry a big selection of like main switches, switch panels and you can do better elsewhere.

Good luck shopping to replace your 10 ga, can you ship it back or is it cost prohibitive.

Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:34 pm
by GuyP
Narfi

Great looking FS17. Been enjoying reviewing your thread and lifestyle in Alaska. Did you ever decide on what to use for side scuppers? I’m interested in those for an FS19?

Guy

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:44 am
by TomW1
Guy don't use side scuppers. Your FS19 is big enough to require proper scuppers running out the back. Pick one of the top 6 and do a proper job of it. https://shop.hamiltonmarine.com/inet/st ... D=scuppers

We just had a discussion on this subject in another post and the concensus was as shown above. I hope this helps. You want to be able to clear all the water out of the boat before another wave breaks over the bow should you ever encounter a storm.

Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:16 am
by narfi
Thanks for the ideas guys. I plan on the battery being in the drivers (captains? Pilots? Whatever is appropriate for small boats) side console. I will also have the fuse box there so in my head battery/fuse box are interchangeable for location. I just said it wrong.

I haven't found scupper valves I like yet. I will go out the side with them. I want polished stainless and no hose bib. Really it just needs to mount to the outside of the hull and look pretty covering the hole. I may do nothing till after I've used it a little and verified rather or not I'll need to be able to plug the holes when fully (over?) loaded.

Epoxy wasnt cured enough to sand last night so I played with popsicle sticks and hot glue with Landon. I'd thought I had ordered tongue depressers for mixing and fillets but got a huge box of popsicle sticks instead. So we are putting them to creative use. Landon and my wife are better at that than me though..... I ended up with a huge mass of sticks and spiderwebs of glue roughly in the shape of a viking longship though.

Tonight I did a little sanding and then taped in all the motorwell and side compartment floors as well as most of the rounded boxes. I finished the bottle of epoxy I was heating so stopped there. I only have one bottle + 2x halves of half gallon hardness. Total epoxy+hardener remaining is 1.5gal.

I am afraid I am using way more epoxy due to cold temperatures but hard to know....

Once cured I'll sand down the tape edges and lay 6oz In the bottom of those rear compartments.

Then it's time to do some rough fairing inside everywhere that will get closed up.
Bow compartment
Under front deck
Inside both console base boxes
Inside both rounded seat boxes
Inside the rear side compartments.

I plan to prime then paint white inside all those areas.

I keep going back and forth on rather I want a tiny hatch on the opening for the rounded seat boxes or to get a good clean radius around the opening and leave it open. I am leaning towards leaving them open at the moment.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:39 pm
by fallguy1000
Epoxy for hand work is usually 1:1 by weight.

So for a yard of 17oz matted biax or 9 sqft or 9*144 sqin is 24 oz of glass and 24 oz of epoxy by weight.

Epoxy is about 9.01# per gallon or so.
1.5# epoxy is about 22 liquid oz epoxy.
(1.5#/9.01 #/gallon *128oz/gal)

You can also skip the math and just use the glass weight.

I doubt the cold hurts you much unless the wetout is a b!!!!!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:01 pm
by GuyP
TomW1

Thanks for the scupper reference. Can you direct me to a build where these type are installed? Are they installed in a bulkhead ahead of the transom connected by hose to a transom through hull?

Thanks

Guy

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:56 am
by OneWayTraffic
I can answer that. Peter Curaco's CS23+3 build had that style, along with PangaRon's PG25.

Personally I think that even with those you will still get a fair bit of back wash.

What about a 500mm (almost 2') length of layflat hypalon hose elephant trunk style? It's common in NZ on Stabicraft pontoon boats. You can install below the waterline in a sump (best this way as water pressure keeps them closed better). Peg them up above the waterline with a quick release.

https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=eleph ... e&ie=UTF-8

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:15 pm
by TomW1
OneWayTraffic Peter built a CS25 and let's add topwater's NV23. There are many other's but those three are excellent examples. To the question of backwash. You get very little as there is very little gap between the door and the opening and as soon as there is any pressure they are sealed.

Peter built a shim so that there was nearly no difference between open and closed, his scuppers were not purchased from Hamilton but from a marine supply house on one of his trips to the states. :D Hamilton sells a set of shims for that one set of scuppers.

Narfi we sort of Hijacked your build here but even you should consider changing to scuppers out the back.

Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:25 pm
by Fuzz
Narfi both Peters's and Topwaters boats were much bigger than your FS17. Their scuppers worked well for them because they were well above the water line. On your boat this is not going to be the case. I am betting you are going to need to plug the scuppers except when the boat is empty. You can get plugs up to 4 inch so size should not be a problem. Best of luck any way you go.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:47 pm
by Fair WX Pilot
Hi Narfi, The boat is looking great. Fantastic job Mate.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:10 pm
by fallguy1000
Bilge pump, splash rails, gunwales.

Scuppers are for boats you can't attend to and boats in heavy seas.

Ask one question.

Do I need the boat to drain itself.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:33 am
by narfi
fallguy1000 wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:10 pm Ask one question.

Do I need the boat to drain itself.
The answer is yes.
Not from swamping but from rain. I have borrowed too many boats filled with water I needed to spend a half hour bailing out and getting pushed out into the water, I dont want to deal with that either beached or in a a trailer, draining underway seems a given to me.

Here is what Jacques has to say about it in the study plans and what sold me on these boats.
In all versions, the sole is well above the waterline and the cockpit is self draining. Note the high designed displacement: it places the waterline just below the cockpit sole at level trim. Most FS17 will never be loaded to that point and their draft will be less than the 7" listed.
I am ok with plugging the drain holes if overloaded, but it is my hope that any jump in and go with 1 or 2 people will be as simple as possible.

They can not go out the back, the motorwell and side compartment floors are above the level of the sole. I do not and did not want any holes, tubes, hoses, etc.. under any part of my sealed floors. If there is nothing there, there is nothing to fail and leak.

By the way, I welcome rabbit trails in my threads, it's a good way to learn and discuss :)

6oz layed on the bottom of the motorwell and side compartments.

Finished taping in the rounded seat boxes.

Coated most of the installed supports with epoxy.

Glued in reinforcement angle for the bow eye with wood flour thickened epoxy and covered with 2x layers of 12oz tape. I cut the reinforcement from left over triangle I had cut for the strakes and used my 1/2" radius roundover bit in my router to make it fit as well as possible. Of course there was still plenty of gaps to fill with thickened epoxy but i think it turned out ok.

First coat of fairing applied to the bow compartment, compartment under front deck and inside both console base boxes.
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:37 am
by OrangeQuest
Looking very good Narfi. Your thinking seems sound on "nothing there, there is nothing to fail and leak".

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:25 am
by cape man
I have side drains in the back corners of the deck made from 1" PVC couplings, and another 1" coupling in the center that goes to the very small bilge in the motor well. I did not raise my sole, but wish I had. At rest, empty, she self bails in the rain, barely now that I upgraded from the 40 to a 70. Fill the bait well or add the cooler under the leaning post and the scuppers are under.

The scuppers and drain to bilge are easily plugged with a standard rubber, lever style plug. As soon as she is on plane they drain easily and quickly.

Next time out I want to run a test in shallow water. Drain to bilge plugged, scuppers open with bait well and cooler full. I want to see how far she goes down before it equalizes. I'm thinking an inch of water in the back and it won't reach the console.

For now I plug the scuppers at anchor and open the drain to the bilge. I spend extra time and attention to the 500gph bilge pump and auto switch! I want to run the test in case I am somewhere where I can't fix the bilge pump but need to park her in the rain.

Due to safety issues, Jacques is against raising the sole more than an inch, but I am not alone in over building one of his boats and losing the self bailing feature. If I ever build another I will either; 1) build it as light and simple as possible; or 2) raise the stringers and bulkheads 2". I don't like wet feet in a boat, and our water is hot compared to yours!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:30 am
by Browndog
Cape man,

You are not alone with the scupper issue. I have had the same problem on the FS-19. It is one of the only things that I wish I had done differently.

Regards,
Jordy

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:28 pm
by narfi
cape man wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:25 am I have side drains in the back corners of the deck made from 1" PVC couplings, and another 1" coupling in the center that goes to the very small bilge in the motor well. I did not raise my sole, but wish I had. At rest, empty, she self bails in the rain, barely now that I upgraded from the 40 to a 70. Fill the bait well or add the cooler under the leaning post and the scuppers are under.
The yamaha f70 (is that what you have?) Is one I considered but is a few pounds heavier than the merc 60 I will install. I see you have a jack plate which puts that weight further back as well.

I am curious how your boat is balanced empty as well as loaded. I would imagine with a heavier motor further back as well as pumps and assorted extras that the bow sits high at rest? This would in turn force the stern down to compensate for that lack of boyancy?
I don't know, at this point it is all academic for me, will be fun putting it to practice in reality.

I am not using a jack plate, no billage pump, no bait well, and no iced coolers.
My extra weight is in having a dual console instead of a single. That weight is pretty close to the center of gravity however and house my fuel and battery.

In my simple mind I see an 8x8 floating dock, it can hold a bunch of teens and horseplay and stay above water, but stick just 3 or 4 guys in one corner and it goes under water a little.
Add 4 guys to the other corner and the whole thing is dry...

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:35 pm
by cape man
I have a lot of weight aft. Only thing up front is the fuel tank and anchors. Two batteries mid ship and then jackplate, hydraulic motor for same, leaning post, cooler, motor, and sometimes 15 gallons of water in bait well...all aft. I like the layout and again, if I had raised the sole 2 inches...

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:05 pm
by Fuzz
The PPI is all based on level loading. The smaller the boat the harder that is to achieve. My dory is like Capeman's. It will drain at rest empty but I need to plug the scuppers when people get in it. Our dories are bigger than an FS17 is so I am pretty sure you are going to have the same issue.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:06 am
by OneWayTraffic
Wear rubber boots, (we call them gumboots here). Problem solved. Can't imagine you not getting wet feet with side scuppers. With a PPI 330 the side drains will be 1-2" above the waterline at most for the lightest possible weight.

Still think elephant trunks the best solution, but they need to face backwards. Oh well I'm sure you'll sort something.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:28 am
by narfi
Like I said. I dont mind plugging the holes.
I am not putting any holes, cables, wires, tubes, ANYTHING under my sealed floors. The motorwell and side compartments are above the sole level, therefor I wont be draining out the back.
Maybe I'm stuborn. Ok I know I am :) but if I dont mind plugging the holes I really dont see the difference between the back and the sides if I'm plugging them anyways. The main difference is out the sides they are more easily accessible to install or remove plugs.

Landon turned 9 yesterday. Kids, pizza, donuts and ice cream. Was a little windy and the party was outside so had to crowd everyone into the clubhouse to light the cake candles, all good fun though.
20181002_072613.jpg
Leaves are turning and water level is down, but dry creek isnt dry yet. Probably could have crossed it with my Honda when I was down that direction but decided to save my bearings and walked instead.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:51 am
by Eric1
Please tell Landon Happy Birthday from me!
Man, You live in some Beautiful country! :D

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:58 pm
by Jeff
Narfi, Happy Birthday to Landon yesterday!! Sounds like he had a nice party!! Beautiful property!! Is that the lake you live on? Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:58 pm
by Jeff
Narfi, Happy Birthday to Landon yesterday!! Sounds like he had a nice party!! Beautiful property!! Is that the lake you live on? Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:34 pm
by OrangeQuest
narfi wrote: Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:28 am Maybe I'm stuborn. Ok I know I am :) but if I dont mind plugging the holes I really dont see the difference between the back and the sides if I'm plugging them anyways. The main difference is out the sides they are more easily accessible to install or remove plugs.
There is a small difference on putting scuppers all the way in the back verses on the stern sides like I think you are doing. Most outboard boats are trimmed, even loaded, for the bow to ride higher than the stern. Which means the sole is angled down at the stern. scuppers at the transom will be below the water line before scuppers on the side. When the boat comes off plan the wake hits the transom first, then lifts the boat, so water enters the scuppers before the boat is lifted. Not so much when the scuppers are on the side.

looks like a great place to turn 9!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:37 pm
by narfi
I plan to drill the holes right in front of the motorwell bulkhead, right at the corners where the motorwell bulkhead, sole and sides meet. does that make sense?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:03 pm
by fallguy1000
narfi wrote: Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:37 pm I plan to drill the holes right in front of the motorwell bulkhead, right at the corners where the motorwell bulkhead, sole and sides meet. does that make sense?
I think if you scupper on the corners; you'll be better off than further for'd.

I have to admit some confusion about your stubbornness here. If you sealed the sole properly then no scupper leak would ever get into that area. A scupper leak would end up in the bilge under the well and I assume you have visibility to it.

Conversely, Is your at rest scupper position above the WL higher on the side than the transom? If so, then a side scupper might be less likely to be an issue in loading.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:19 pm
by narfi
fallguy1000 wrote: Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:03 pm I think if you scupper on the corners; you'll be better off than further for'd.

I have to admit some confusion about your stubbornness here. If you sealed the sole properly then no scupper leak would ever get into that area. A scupper leak would end up in the bilge under the well and I assume you have visibility to it.
There is no bilge under the well, it is sealed. EVERYTHING is sealed..... The bottom of the motorwell is about an inch (cant remember exactly but it is butted up against the bottom of the clamping board) below the motor mounting bolts at the transom and slopes up. That panel has no holes in it and below it is sealed, taped, and glassed.
The bottom of the side compartments are just above the rear of the motorwell and will drain into the motorwell which in turn will drain out the back. This isnt really a bilge though as it is all above the sole level and only those 3 areas will drain out the back.

So there are two 'areas' where water could collect.
1. Behind the motorwell bulkhead. Either splashed in from behind, or rain through the lids of the side compartments. The boat would have to be really out of trim to not drain from this area and should never need to be plugged.

2. Forward of the motorwell bulkhead. If overloaded and/or out of trim water could come in the sides here and should be plugged before going into those situations.

Both areas will drain without any issue when on plane, so regardless of at rest, the boat will be dry when on plane.

fallguy1000 wrote: Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:03 pm Conversely, Is your at rest scupper position above the WL higher on the side than the transom? If so, then a side scupper might be less likely to be an issue in loading.
Of course it is higher than if it went out the back, we have already established that at rest nearly all small boats sit stern heavy, therefor the farther forward you go, even if just 18 inches will be higher than it would be at the transom.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:35 pm
by fallguy1000
I go the side then.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:42 pm
by piperdown
Totally kidding but couldn't help myself...187 gallons/min :lol:
https://www.maxtool.com/honda-wt20-tras ... fgEALw_wcB

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:50 am
by TomW1
Narfi of course you have bilge compartments: "The lowest compartment in a ship, boat or seaplane" Source various.

They can be open, filled with foam, mechanical or used in other various ways. You should see the size of a bilge compartment on an aircraft carrier. 8O

Since you say yours are sealed did you foam them? How are you running your wires and fuel lines?

The placement of your scuppers in the corners is the proper place if you won't run properly sized ones out the back. Just make them big enough(3") that they can clear any wave you expect to breach before the next one hits. There are plugs that size and bigger. Other wise all I can say is good luck. :D I don't like them there, I don't like them there, I don't like them there. But that is me, I grew up where storms can grow very fast and if you are out 5-10 miles on a big lake you won't make it to shore. :help:

The FS17 is designed to at rest at the dock with about 2" of freeboard at the stern and since you are placing the batteries and fuel you will not have a problem with her draining at rest. I don't know where all this other junk is coming from as Jacques designs all his medium size boats, ie FS 17 to be self bailing at rest.

Well just my two cents and go ahead and build it like you want to. That is why every one of these builds is different and fun to watch as they come together. :D

Been enjoying your build. Keep up the good work.

Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:32 am
by narfi
Hehe 3 inches.....
To be crude, no one has 3 inches here once the water touches them.
I certainly wont ever be out in conditions requiring a drain that big.

The saying goes, "there are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots", I am sure it could be applied to cold water boating as well.

I know people on the bottom of this lake and have no desire to join them in this life.

The typical boat here has the simple 1" rubber plug in the back and that's only pulled once on plane, and that's not to drain waves, it's to drain the rest ofthe rainwater that couldnt be bailed.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:30 am
by thb
Narfi,

Remind me where are you routing your controls, wiring for motor and steering controls. I can not remember seeing this previously.

My scupper drains are in a very similar location to what you have planned. You may want a doubler on the inside as the side skins are thin at 1/4 inch. I drilled my scupper holes at an angle to pick up some of the sole so that after filling and drilling final size the bottom would be at deck level. My drill out plugs completely went thru the sole but all filled with WFE so no water can get under the sole.

Regards
Tom in Steinhatchee

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:07 am
by narfi
Everything will be routed under the gunnels.
Fuel on the left, battery and engine controls on the right.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:11 pm
by Fuzz
Put the scuppers where you want them. they will work just fine for your needs. I have more than one boat with them out the side and have had no problems.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:51 pm
by cape man
Good grief! The advice here sometimes is just ridiculous. It's an FS17 going on a lake. If you are in weather where a 3 inch scupper going out the back is needed go ashore. Otherwise a small opening out the side is fine. Beautiful build... build on!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:17 pm
by Eric1
cape man wrote: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:51 pm Good grief! The advice here sometimes is just ridiculous. It's an FS17 going on a lake. If you are in weather where a 3 inch scupper going out the back is needed go ashore. Otherwise a small opening out the side is fine. Beautiful build... build on!
Here Here

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:26 am
by narfi
Sanded a few hours tonight.
Knocked down the tape edges in the motorwell, side compartments and one of the seat boxes. Still one seat box to go. Did an initial sanding of all the flat surfaces in those areas as well. If you remember this is where I had all the blisters I cut out and relocated, so there are lots of lumps and bumps and epoxy runs. Makes me dream of some sort of dust collection like fuzz and a few others have. Sanding open areas is bad enough, but down in compartments it just blows it all back in your face.

Knowing I still have lots of sanding and fairing ahead of me, I dug out some of the "bling" so I could start thinking and visualizing how it will fit.
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The rod holders are the perfect angle for the gunnel and hull sides. My two ideas for them were to disperse them near each of the seats as easy access for each person or lined up on each of the rear compartments 3x on each side as storage out of the way and eyesight of everyone.

I liked the idea of having them all in the rear, but the angle there isnt as good as on the gunnels. I put a lot of curve on the motorwell bulkhead, so it's a steeper angle at the sides than it is for the gunnel and so the rod holder bottoms would stick out into the middle of the compartments.

The cupholders are shorter, buy take up a lot of the width of the gunnels.

The gas fill is an easy fit and shouldnt cause me any problems. I think I will build a small dam around it to prevent any spilled fuel from going inside. I need to figure out an easy core to lay down around it for that idea.

These pieces all fit well enough, but my real concern is routing all my cables, controls and wires with them in place and still keeping it all tidy and clean hidden under the gunnels.

The left side should be easy, it's just the fuel line, fuel sander wires, and lights and USB charger wires.

The right side however have the steering cable, shift and throttle cables, engine wiring harness, battery/alternator cables, transducer cable and lighting wires.

While on the topic (squirrel!!!) What is typical for a fuel water separator? Are they used and if so where are they mounted?

I was thinking of mounting one on the rear side of the motorwell bulkhead in the left corner of the motorwell, but not sure what is normal.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:53 am
by OrangeQuest
When I was sanding down in my little tiny bilge and lockers I was not able to use the vacuum hose on my sander, some areas the 5" sander wouldn't fit! But I got this ventilation fan and set it up at the opening to pull air out of the lockers. It was rated for 470CFM and did a very nice job of keeping any airborne dust away from me. Also worked very good keeping paint fumes away as well.
3841

Nice bling! To make your "dam" around your filler maybe fillet putty?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:05 am
by Eric1
Narfi, I would stick to your plan. If the fuel line is running on the left, that's where I'd mount the separator. :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:08 am
by thb
Hi Narfi,

I am mounting my fuel water separator on the inside wall of the motor well bulkhead on the compartment side. The mounting bolts will be below the platform of the motor well. so they can stick thru without being seen on the motor side. I would always use one. My fuel outlet hose will exit the compartment above the motor well bulkhead while the inlet hose enters underneath from the bilge compartment.

I think you have some real concerns with getting all the cables and harnesses up under the right hand gunnel and clamped in some fashion so you can remove from the access below the vertical gunnel strip. Some wood underneath for clamps to screw into would be good. In fact you could scallop out the wood for each cable and then put a cap over the blocks.The block could swivel from the outboard edge so that only one screw at the inboard side was needed to be removed to drop the cables. Support every 12 to 18 inches might be enough. Interesting situation which I am sure you can come up with a solution for.

One thing I realized the other day is that once my gunnels were glassed over, access to clamps and gunnel light wiring is a thing of the past. Hope they last a good long time. :P

Yeah, sanding is a mess no matter where but worse in closed compartment.

Regards
Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:43 pm
by TomW1
Narfi yes use a fuel/water filter. It is usually placed in the compartment that the fuel hose exits to the motor. One of the members showed one, not very long ago for about 60 bucks that would be fine for you. Sierra and Racor are both excellent brands.

Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:55 pm
by narfi
Alaska traditionally has sales in October. Our anniversary is on the 15th so I priced out a Hawaiian weekend, flights and hotel for a 4day weekend would only be about 1k + outings while there. Called my wife and asked if she wanted to do that. Her answer was, "I would rather buy you a boat motor."

Have I mentioned what a great wife I have?

Finaly got around to pull testing the ziptie brackets.

I clamped the plywood test peice in a vise and pulled down at a 45 degree angle with wire looped through the holes.

Just the foam tape pulled off at 35 pounds
Adhesive scraped off and thickened epoxy glued with remaining tape pulled off at 45 pounds
The one with thickened epoxy applied to the unaltered adhesive foam held..... the wire broke through the bracket at about 50 pounds so I put ware through the other way and it pulled through at 90 pounds.
20181004_184350.jpg
I only did one of each and find it hard to believe the difference is that great, but they still failed in the order I expected, so will go with that approach when installing them.

The two that failed each started peeling up against the wood but once started tore through the foam, so if a weak point was started I think the third sample would fail much sooner as well.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:34 am
by narfi
I sanded down the tape edges for the last seat box, they are ready for weave fill and fairing inside now.

Got out my last sheet of plywood and told myself "dont screw this up", then proceeded to screw it up.......

I'd measured several times and I could get the front deck and bow hatch top both out of one sheet.
It looks good from this angle.
20181005_011327.jpg
But here you see what I did....
20181005_011406.jpg
I'm not positive, but I think I offset the centerline from front to back by 3 inches somehow. It was 3 inches short one one side and 3 inches long on the other side along the rear edge while the front fit perfectly.

My solution was to cut 3 more inches off the short side o.0...... then it was 6 inches short and still 3 inches too long on the otherside...... oops. By the time I was done it fit well on one side and was 6in short on the other.

The beauty of building like this is even a screw up like that is easy to fix, I'll splice in a peice with 12oz tapes and should be good to go.

I've been thinking about how yo reinforce the front deck as it's a large unsupported area exaggerated by the fact I cut the hatch in the bulkhead support so big.

I will round over these left over triangles and glue them down in an "X" pattern, cover with 12oz tapes and then glass the entire underside with 12oz cloth. That gives 2 layers of 12oz over the triangles and hopefully makes it ridged enough to walk and jump on.
20181005_011553.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:49 am
by Eric1
Don't feel alone Narfi. I've miss cut one of my frames butt like you say it's an easy fix.
I think that will be stiff enough for the task. Build on Brother! :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:16 am
by OrangeQuest
Looking very good! Can you do a lap joint where the two boards cross so they both lay flat? Then extra tape at the intersection to add strength back to it? The tape should form a very strong beam, I would think.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:19 am
by thb
Narfi,

I see from your zip tie holder experiment how you are going to install all that stuff under the gunnels. Good plan and easy way to do it I think.

Regarding your forward deck panel. I think rectangular shaped pieces of ply ( 2 each ) running front to back tied into the frames with the grain orientation vertical will give you a lot more bending strength compared to the rectangular shaped wood.

I would splice the joint with tape and ply overlapping the ply as much as you can along the sides. About 3 inches where you have clearance, glued with WFE. The reason I think this is better than just cloth strip on the bottom is this.

Previous builder of my boat had spliced this deck piece out of three pieces with the joints going front to back. One layer to biax cloth over the entire surface. When I started working on this, one of these joint became loose because of not enough vertical support. I put a layer of 12 oz cloth over the top and that seemed to stiffen things up good. Of course I have the front seat support of two pieces of 2x2 mahogany running front to back tied into the bulkhead/ frame structure. This area had to be real strong to support the seat and what ever weight it might have on it.

You know me, I over build everything. Sure maybe my boat will be a little heavier by 50 to 100 lbs but so what. It is built like a tank. I do not want to have to fix structural issues at some later date because I skimped on a few lbs here and there.

Regards
Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:13 pm
by narfi
Cut out the splice peice for the front deck and glassed the first side with 12oz tape.

Taped the outside of the console base panels.

Started playing around with the hinges.
I traced one out on a couple pieces of scrap and routed it out freehand. They fit ok and look decent, and fold back perfectly on themselves, but freehand isnt great, I can see my imperfect lines.
20181006_180011.jpg
20181006_180136.jpg
20181006_180116.jpg
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What's the best approach for making it look perfect?
Some sort of jig?
Or would it be better to over route it and then fill with thickened epoxy and wax the hinges and push down into it?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:45 pm
by TomW1
Narfi doing the wood working I have, I have always used a jig when doing multiple hinges of the same kind. There are so many router bits available now to make jigs from I would not hesitate to do so. I would also glue a block under so the screws have a full purchase of there threads.

Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:53 pm
by R00kie
A jig is the way to go, but there is usually something in the way. Maybe a small router is the answer. BTW, awesome free hand routing!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:53 am
by OrangeQuest
Template guides. you use you bit but this goes on the router with your own template secured to where you want an inlay cut out. This is from Harbor Freight for less than $16.00. They also sell the bit.
3849

You did really good for free hand. The guides would also be handy for cutting hatch opening and then the hatch.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:02 am
by thb
Narfi,

How many hinges do you have to cut out. I think you are doing pretty good by freehand. Filling with wood flour and epoxy and over drilling and filling your holes would make a nice neat well protected ply surface. I think a doubler on the backside is good as suggested by Tomw1. I would only use the wood screws to temporarily attach the hinges and use machine screws for permanent mounting. Maybe that is your plan, I don't know.

By the Way, where my front deck was started to separate at the one joint I also added one layer or biax tape and several coats of epoxy on the bottom surface in addition to the 12 oz cloth on the top surface. I had to look at it yesterday to remember what I had done.

When is the motor coming? What a nice wife.

Regards
Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:40 pm
by narfi
Motor In the spring I think.

Those router bushings look nice.

Yes I plan to use machine screws.
Yes I will double where needed, however the edge screws probably cant be as that area rests against the hatch supports. My plan is to have the short side of the hinge mounted to the boat through the plywood + hatch supports. The longer section mounted to the lid with the furthest hole reinforced. The hatch supports will need holes drilled for the two closest nuts from the lid to lay in. The hinge positioned as my sample peice so the lid lifts up as it swings.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:00 pm
by OrangeQuest
narfi wrote: Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:40 pm

Those router bushings look nice.
They are something to get and then learn how to use during the long winter months up there! :D :D Making the templates are the hardest part but once you figure it out you just label each template so you know what it's for and have repeatable fast results.

Since you are so steady with a free hand router and if you only need a few then route near the line and clean it up and get exact with a box cutter(Razor knife) and sharp chisel. Scribe the lines with the box cutter and clean out with the chisel. As good as your are with your router you may can just scribe before the router and the router will pull the waste away from the line.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:25 am
by narfi
Momma was out for the evening so Landon and I did a little bit of cleaning, a little bit of unboxing, and a little bit of dreaming.
20181008_225812.jpg
20181008_225731.jpg
20181008_225712.jpg

Steering column or helm is roughly 6" inside and 6" outside the panel.
20181008_225915.jpg


Need to make sure the inwall is atleast 6" tall between pilot seat and console for mounting the control box.
20181008_230144.jpg
Cables seem long enough. I hope not too long, but dont think they are.
20181008_230110.jpg
Wiring harness plug to the engine will require the largest holes of almost 2 inches.
20181008_225941.jpg
No instructions came with the control box, but I assume this shorter harness is what goes to the panel for guages, perhaps fuel quantity hook up, not sure, will have to research it some.
20181008_230218.jpg
Still having trouble picturing exactly how I want the consoles setup, but starting to get sizing requirements for the helm and electrical will help I think. Need finalize battery placement and hatch design for the right console seat as well.(left seat has the fuel tank so no hatch there.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:29 am
by Jeff
Good update Narfi & glad to see Landon back on the boat!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:41 am
by Eric1
Love the update. The smile on Landon's face says it all! :D

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:41 pm
by fallguy1000
Best thing ever on a boat is a battery isolator.

Make sure to use one.

My Raymarine Dragonfly starts on the battery turned on!

It will kill the battery in two days.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:05 pm
by OrangeQuest
narfi wrote: Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:25 am

Still having trouble picturing exactly how I want the consoles setup, but starting to get sizing requirements for the helm and electrical will help I think.
You could use cardboard cuts out of your instruments and switch panels. If you know brand and model then you should be able to find the size on the web. Don't forget a steering wheel! But you just move things around on a mock up dash panel till you get things where you like them.

I started with Microsoft "Paint" and just moved things around till I got a rough idea. Now I am ready to do a full size mock up to see if it's what I like and will work.

Great to see a guys' day working on the boat.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:36 pm
by narfi
fallguy1000 wrote: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:41 pm Best thing ever on a boat is a battery isolator.

Make sure to use one.

My Raymarine Dragonfly starts on the battery turned on!

It will kill the battery in two days.
I got a 12V 150A CONTINUOUS DUTY SOLENOID RELAY for the battery and will have everything on switches as well.

So....
I have to drill a 2" hole and several 1" holes in my bulkheads. For structural integrity I would like to drill them near the center, but can not do that if installing the rodholders and cup holders. For ease of securing and routing I think it would be best close to the hull side. What kind of edge distance do I need for these holes?
BulkheadHoles.JPG
BulkheadHoles.JPG (50.95 KiB) Viewed 2106 times
Maybe I am over thinking it......
Maybe I can still drill the holes in the centerish of the bulkhead frames and just make sure that the rod and cup holders are not near the frames, then the cables can be snaked through the holes then against the hull around the holders then through the next set of holes?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:13 pm
by fallguy1000
Avoid cutting into your fillets.

In a larger boat, bulkhead tapes would also be avoided, but that isn't an option for you.

Also, I would personally prefer to cut two largerish holes than a big hole and a bunch of small ones that form a straight line, but it is just a preference thing. You'll be fine. Give yourself some space though. Never know when you want to run that xtra wire.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:39 pm
by narfi
OrangeQuest wrote: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:05 pm You could use cardboard cuts out of your instruments and switch panels. If you know brand and model then you should be able to find the size on the web. Don't forget a steering wheel! But you just move things around on a mock up dash panel till you get things where you like them.
I bought a switch panel already, and the Simrad Go7 display. So I have all that stuff.
I am thinking more about the 3d shape of it all.
A simple rectangle? tilted back a bit? how do I want the front of it shaped? how will a windshield look on each of those ideas? etc.....

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:00 am
by narfi
I cut the tops out for the rounded seat boxes.
Think I will bond an extra layer of 3/8 to the bottom where the swivel will mount. So it will bolt through 3/4 of plywood plus glass.

Trimmed the tops of the console base boxes a little more and cut access holes for the hoses to the fuel tank.

Layed out the triangle supports for the underside of the front deck and routed the corners down with a 1/2" roundover bit. I have lots of 12oz tape, I'm thinking I'll do two layers of tape over the triangles plus 1 layer of 12oz cloth over the entire bottom.

20181013_224734.jpg
20181013_224812.jpg
20181013_224616.jpg
Need to clean out all the dust and start laying in some fairing compound so I can get the insides of the compartments sanded primed and painted before it's too cold.... snow on the mountains already.....

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:58 am
by Fuzz
Things are looking very nice there. You are doing nice work.
Yep it has been cooling down the past few days and I see the snow walking down the mountains :cry:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:52 am
by OrangeQuest
Some really good looking progress!

It's is starting to get cold here in Houston too! 75° this morning at 4 a.m. Brrrr! I can feel that cold front that came through. :wink:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:19 am
by Eric1
That's preety dang sweet!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:43 am
by Jeff
Nice work Narfi!! Layout looks great!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:09 am
by thb
Narfi,

I would tilt the surface of the console back about 30 degrees and raise it a little. Leave plenty of room to access everything that will be in there. Having limited access is not something I wish to repeat ever again.

It is looking real good. You are not going to get it finished before winter so take your time and think long and hard on your console layout.

I see you spliced the forward compartment top.

Regards
Tom in Steinhatchee

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:20 am
by narfi
thb wrote: Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:09 am I see you spliced the forward compartment top.
It's actually the right side of the fwd deck. (Could have been either side as it's a symmetrical peice.)

95% of the splice will be under the gunnal and I'll tape the inwall with 12oz tape so it will be well supported.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:21 pm
by narfi
Birthday today. (One year to go till I hit the big 4 0)
Anniversary tomorrow. 13 years (we planned the weading day after my birthday so I could remember the date)

No restaurants here, but a coworker of mine is a formally educated chef, so I got him to cater our anniversary meal and we had it tonight.

Salad and pork belly confe (no idea on spelling but it's like a cross between bacon and pulled pork awsomeness)

Flat Iron steaks with roasted baby potatoes, carrots and asparagus.

And home made icecream.

This afternoon I glued down the front deck reinforcements and double taped them, then covered the entire surface with 12oz cloth. (So 3x layers of 12oz at the reinforcements)
20181014_181424.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:24 pm
by cape man
That won't flex!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:59 am
by thb
Narfi,

Congrats on birthday and anniversary. Our anniversary is Black Monday Oct 19 in 1987 when the stock market took a nose dive.

Pork belly is awesome, We get it whole or sliced and smoke it on the pellet grill. Better than boston butt pulled pork. We always go to Red Lobster in Lake City ( about 75 miles away ) and eat endless shrimp. We only go out to eat a couple of times a year.

The front deck seems plenty strong. Good job.

Have a great couple of days.

Regards
Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:25 am
by OrangeQuest
Congratulation on two great dates and good way to remember the 2nd one!

The underside taping and covering looks great, should be very solid.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:05 am
by Jeff
Congrats Narfi & happy Birthday yesterday!! Hope the dinner was excellent!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:03 am
by Eric1
Happy Birthday and Anniversary!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:10 am
by narfi
Correction on my post from yesterday. It was flat iron steak.

Trimmed the excess glass off the deck and fitted it in place and jumped on it. Even not glued down yet or cloth over the top it is sturdy enough so I am happy.

First coat of weave fill/fairing material applied to rear compartments and seat boxes.

Even with the cooler evenings here heating the half med half fast epoxy is going well, one batch even kicked before I was fully applied with it, so worked faster after that and turned the heater off.
20181015_215832.jpg
20181015_215850.jpg
20181015_215947.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:08 am
by thb
Narfi,

You must be going for perfection as fairing the inside of compartments is over the top, IMHO. Who is going to look in there to inspect your build. You have enough to fair and sand on the outside surfaces.

Are you going to drain your transom splash well?

Regards
Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:10 am
by Fair WX Pilot
The boat looks fantastic mate, great job. Belated happy birthday for the other day.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:35 am
by Jeff
Really well done Narfi!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:12 am
by pee wee
thb wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:08 am Narfi,
You must be going for perfection as fairing the inside of compartments is over the top, IMHO. Who is going to look in there to inspect your build. You have enough to fair and sand on the outside surfaces.
I like to fair the inside of storage compartments, not to perfection but until I have smooth, easily cleaned surfaces.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:42 am
by OrangeQuest
Me too Hank!
I want it waterproofed as best as possible and no places dirt/sand can hide or stick and smooth enough I can't feel it when a pass my hand over.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:14 am
by narfi
Exactly.
It doesnt need to look perfect in the compartments, but it needs to be smooth and free of any areas that can collect crud and mold etc..... easy to wipe out or spray out. Any weave or pinholes will make that impossible.
I also want a smooth enough surface than when painted reflects light well as I will just be using LED strip lights in the compartments.

Edit: went through my canoe pictures, and I want it to be finished a little better in the compartments than I did on it since these are larger, easier to access in use and in fairing, and will be more visible.

Image

Image

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:29 pm
by thb
I will shut up now as I have been set straight.

I understand why you are doing it. Makes sense. Different strokes for different folks.

Regards
Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:59 pm
by narfi
thb wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:29 pm I will shut up now
I hope not!

Like someone said here on the forum,

thb wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:29 pm Different strokes for different folks.
Everyone here has different approaches, and because of this each of our boats are unique.
I think that is great, and love the thoughts, ideas, and criticisms for both my boat and others here.

How else could an idiot like me learn anything?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:40 pm
by OrangeQuest
narfi wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:59 pm
thb wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:29 pm I will shut up now
I hope not!

Like someone said here on the forum,

thb wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:29 pm Different strokes for different folks.
Everyone here has different approaches, and because of this each of our boats are unique.
I think that is great, and love the thoughts, ideas, and criticisms for both my boat and others here.

How else could an idiot like me learn anything?
I like that too Narfi. But as the builder you have the final say as well as the guy that will be doing it. And as far as being an idiot you have yet to prove that. You post your plans and what you are about to do and get feed back on it and then proceed to do what you think is the best way to do it. That is a very smart approach. Your boat has been very well thought out and built very well, not to mention very custom too.

That said, I understand your reasons for the gloss paint but I am not a big fan even though I know it cleans easier and stains less. It also reflects light that at times makes it hard to see stuff. :wink:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:57 pm
by Fuzz
One big difference for us here is if it is boating season it is pretty much daylight all the time. When the days get short the water gets hard :roll:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:11 am
by narfi
Spent a couple hours sanding this evening in the most difficult compartment of the whole project.

It's the deepest and all the angles are tight.....
20181016_230539.jpg
This is also where I had lots of cloth and tape overlaps, so lots of grinding needed, which is simple on the flat surfaces but impossible in the corners.

Is there a good tool for such corners?
I was thinking maybe a little angle die grinder with sanding disks or corse scotch bright pads?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:44 am
by OrangeQuest
I used a mini belt sander. The one I bought was very cheap but after I modified a few things on it and started using a very light touch it worked pretty good at getting into tight places and smoothing out my crappy fillets.
https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-elect ... ander.html
I also bought the belts at the same time since they are the only ones that sell that size belt. Main problem I had with it was they use a thumb screw to tighten the pivot part and I swapped it with the screw that holds the belt cover on. Belt still pops off a lot but it is very fast at smoothing things in tight spots. Oh, and it gets very warm after a few minutes of use. But for the price I wasn't expecting much.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:10 am
by thb
Narfi,

I have found a dremmel with a diamond round sanding disc on it works very well. The disc takes the same mandrel and rubber backing piece that the dremmel sanding discs use. The normal sanding discs just do not stay together very long but they fit the corners pretty well.

My oldest cordless dremmel needs to be returned to dremmel for work as the locking tab no longer holds the spindle so you can tighten and loosen the bits. I picked up another cordless dremmel at lowes yesterday. Early Christmas present to myself.

I love the freedom the cordless ones give you when working on the boat. The diamond round disc is on a metal backing so it does not fly apart like the sandpaper discs do. You can grind like crazy with it and the wood is smoking hot. Can not remember where I got all these extra diamond bits but will do some searching.

Regards
Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:57 am
by OrangeQuest
Tom can you post a picture of what you are talking about? I have a lot of Dremel tool accessories but I don't use their motors anymore. I have burnt up every one of the ones they make so I use a bigger motor that hangs and uses foot control and a HF brand motor. Many years of good service from each.

I even called and talked to Dremel, they know their motors are not very durable. I have been using Dremel brand for almost 50 years when my older brother gave me his old single speed motor with a few bits. That thing lasted forever, it was lost during a move.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:40 pm
by narfi
OrangeQuest wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:44 am I also bought the belts at the same time since they are the only ones that sell that size belt.
Amazon sells a few different 1/2" by 18" belts,
https://www.amazon.com/United-Abrasives ... 77P2X&th=1
OrangeQuest wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:44 am But for the price I wasn't expecting much.
I wont either, but for that price.... I ordered one, will see how it goes.


thb wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:10 am Narfi,

I have found a dremmel with a diamond round sanding disc on it works very well.
Is this what you are talking about?
https://www.amazon.com/BIN-BON-Oscillat ... nd+sanding

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:27 am
by thb
Narfi,

That link to amazon item is not the item I am talking about. I guess I should have called it a sanding drum. Same size as the large sandpaper drums that Dremel and others sell. I tried searching for one yesterday with no results. In the mean time I will post photo of it.

Mine got so hot the other day the rubber backing wore down and I had to super glue it onto the rubber backing to make it functional.

Regards
Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:40 am
by thb
Here are some photos of the diamond coated drum which fits on the rubber backing piece.

Regards
Tom
IMG_1249 (640x480).jpg
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:04 am
by blueflood
Hi guys,

When I had to clean up fillets prior to spraying Monstaliner, I used a rotary rasp chucked in a drill. These worked like a champ especially in tight corners. It left a semi smooth surface with enough teeth for the coating. That is the only tool I used after trying what you guys are. You get a feel on how to hold the drill and rasp along a fillet fairly quickly - you can go aggressive or simply a light scuffing. Lasts forever as well.

I can't attach a photo at work but essentially it is a 5/8" dia ball with spurs and a shank for the drill. They come in different shapes as well but are all about 2" long; cylindrical, tapered etc. Look for "rotary rasp" on Google

Marc

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:35 am
by pee wee
Image

On the belt sander, are you talking about something like this?:

https://www.amazon.com/Triton-TCMBS-Pal ... B00ATZKUYM

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:13 am
by OrangeQuest
More like this.
3925
It took a little while to get the feel of it without the belt popping off all the time but a little rigging and it was very easy to get in all the tight spots I needed to get too. This one is very cheap and one of the things U did was the screw that lets it pivot I traded the one bolt that the Allen wrench fits with thumb screw. Then I had to add a nut and a pad at the end of it so it would not come loose and throw the belt. One trick is to move it at a slight angle so the grinding surface doesn't pull the belt off. I think I bought the 120grit with it and it will remove a lot for such a small contact area.


Dremel does look like they are bringing back their remote mounted HD motor with flex shaft and foot speed control, something I had asked about a few years ago if they would bring it back, guess they listened!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:51 am
by pee wee
I always associated that system (remote motor with flex shaft) with Foredom, but I think there are actually a few companies making it:

https://www.amazon.com/Foredom-Flex-Sha ... %3AForedom

https://www.amazon.com/SE-979FSG-Flexib ... dpSrc=srch

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:09 pm
by OrangeQuest
Pee Wee I have the motor and the flex shaft thing and it is good if you are sitting and working at a workbench. It is a big pain to use standing up and then moving. Also when working in tight places or having to change angles a lot the shaft can limit movement. I found that having the motor mounted on a arm that can swing freely and then can be moved up and down makes it more useful. Reason I mentioned it is the motor is a lot stronger. But the motor with flex shaft is not very portable like the handheld motors.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:38 am
by narfi
Still feeling the winter lethargy but it's staying light in the evenings finaly again.

Made it out to the tent tonight. The plastic over the boat had caught about a gallon or so of condensation drip, so I got that all out and rolled up the plastic.

The overhead LED lights had a loose connection so got them all working again.

The "floor" tarp in the tent has spring mud under it, I sink 2-3 inches into the tarp each step.

Mess..... some guy working in there never cleaned up after himself :( I'll probably need to spend a day tidying before I can start working on it again.

Landon caught me outside and wanted to play catch with a football. I was happy to oblige. He has always resisted sports. I like sports but have tried not to push any on him, so it's fun when he chooses to do some.

The lawn is pretty sloppy still with a few patches of ice left. Our place is pretty protected from sun and wind with the trees/forest so we stay muddy quite a bit longer in the spring than the rest of the village.

Hopefully back to working on the boat regularly soon.
After uncovering it I stood for a while in amazement over how much I had done and how crazy it is to think I could do something like that. It's kind of intimidating to get back going on it. I know once I get going I'll be fine but it seems daunting now.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:48 am
by Fuzz
Hey hey hey..............look who crawled out of hibernation :lol: :lol:
It is starting to feel like spring but things are still pretty wet and soft around here also. Good part is pretty soon we will get to listen to the southern boys crying it is too hot :wink:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:01 am
by Jeff
Narfi/Fuzz, glad it is starting to warm-up for you guys!!! Hope Spring gets that quickly!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:23 pm
by Capt UB
Fuzz wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:48 am Hey hey hey..............look who crawled out of hibernation :lol: :lol:
It is starting to feel like spring but things are still pretty wet and soft around here also. Good part is pretty soon we will get to listen to the southern boys crying it is too hot :wink:

Us southern boys have the same problem you cheechakos do this time of year.... Mosquitos! :lol: :lol:

.
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:31 pm
by OrangeQuest
Good to hear from Narfi! No rush but need pictures!!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:03 pm
by narfi
OrangeQuest wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:31 pm Good to hear from Narfi! No rush but need pictures!!
Still no work on the fs17 but the mindset is getting closer.

Landon and I paddled out into the bay yesterday and then did a little ice breaking for fun.
20190408_130347.jpg
20190408_130204.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:33 pm
by BB Sig
What a fun day! The scenery is awesome!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:53 pm
by Capt UB
Only time I see ice like that is when I have to break apart a frozen bag of ice here in Central Florida.

That is a beautiful place, I must see someday.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:42 pm
by OrangeQuest
Wow! Those are some awesome pictures!! Your habitat is what a lot of us dream of, other than the ice and snow!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:57 pm
by BB Sig
OrangeQuest wrote: Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:42 pm Wow! Those are some awesome pictures!! Your habitat is what a lot of us dream of, other than the ice and snow!
Then it's a nightmare if it's more than a week! :help:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:37 am
by narfi
Spent a few hours sanding past night.
This weekend I cleaned out the tent and organized a bit (wat over due) the ground under the tarp floor is very muddy so I peeled it back to the platform the boat is on in hopes the mud will dry faster uncovered.

Felt good to get back working on it, still need to figure out short and long term project goals.
We head out for 2 weeks vacation next month and I'll pick up the motor when we get back, probably buy the steel and axle for the trailer then as well.

I need to get the transom compartments, seat boxes console base boxes and forward compartments cleaned up enough to paint, prime and close up, that's what I'm working on now and need to overcome some of my perfectionist tendencies where it wony be seen.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:06 pm
by narfi
Then I look out the window eating breakfast and see this.....
20190416_080820.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:05 pm
by OrangeQuest
When I first seen the picture without reading your post I thought maybe you were sanding! :lol:

Good to see you coming out of hibernation.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:15 am
by narfi
Still second winter here, but some people already over eager and out in the field getting ready for summer and need picked up,.
Getting the "boat" ready to launch to go pick them up.
20190423_090909.jpg
I spent the last big chunk of money today for my boat besides the motor I'll buy next month.
$435 on steel tubes
$615 on axel assy w/ springs and a set of wheels and tires.

Coworkers have built a couple this winter, I waited till they had the kinks worked out of their "prototypes" and ordered a little thicker walled steel than they used. I think it should make a nice trailer. I am not a welder but will work out a deal with him to weld it up for me. Thought I had a picture of one of theirs but cant find it now.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:28 am
by Fuzz
Dang nice looking boat. Good cruise speed on that one too.
Good news for us. The kids"geese" showed up today. Spring is HERE :D

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:02 pm
by narfi
Still have snow on the ground in the backyard but got up into the mid 70s in the tent today (end still open hoping to dry the mud out)

Spent a couple hours sanding then ripped a couple 1x4s into 3/4 × 3/4 battens. Cut a few tentative batons for the gunnal, just to get a feel what it should look like.

Still haven't figured out the console and windscreen design.
Would any of the console plans sold BBC be more helpful for what I want to do than the generic one that came with the boat plans? 2x integral side consoles built ontop of the back half of the seat boxes with sloped windscreens.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:06 am
by narfi
I found this one online, I think I'll loosely emulate it.
CL-20-high.png
I would like to close off the whole bottom box as a single cube to be accessed from under the front seat.
Hoping I can make room for the battery above that without conflicting with anything else inside the console.(steering, wiring, etc...)

I forgot to mention I used my new dusk mask today and really liked it, no white boogers like I do with normal dust masks.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BH2MXYT/re ... XCbZX441PX
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51hnufkGjrL._AC_SY400_.jpg (31.67 KiB) Viewed 2451 times

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:48 pm
by Fuzz
That is an awfully fancy console for a bush boat :wink: :lol:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:04 pm
by narfi
Fuzz wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:48 pm That is an awfully fancy console for a bush boat :wink: :lol:
I just ment rough shape, not the fancy contours and hardware.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:46 pm
by narfi
Dummied up a cardboard console to see how it looked.
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I was mostly happy with it and confidant I can box in the case boxes.

I want the rear face forward about 2 inches, it was comfortable to stand at with my feet against the seat bottom, but the seat will will sit over the edge a little.

The front angle for the windscreen isnt right yet, too sharp an angle..... maybe drop the front corner down a little to adjust the angle of the windshield up more.

Will probably slightly angle the side panels in.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:50 pm
by narfi
Wife just told me we leave for vacation in one week......... I thought I still had 2 weeks :/

Hope was (is?) to get launched by beginning of July....

Good thing is I feel like I can start pounding away at progress now that I'm not worried about the consoles as much. Bad thing is 2 weeks away will probably get me back into stagnation again :/

Steel for my trailer hasn't gotten here yet, the joy of working for the air taxi and employee rates being 'space available', so I wont worry about it till after vacation.

'Dream' Checklist for what to do before leaving in 7 days of evenings.

1. Overdrill and fill mounting holes for the bow and transom hooks, and engine mounting.
2. Make some fiberglass tie down brackets for the fuel tank (copy some I saw here on the forum I need to find it again)
3. Frame in the tops of the console base boxes, seat access hatch on the right one, hatches for the bow and transom compartments.
4. Finish light fairing inside all compartments.
5. Frame up the gunnals
6. Cut and install the Inner Gunnal walls including compartment openings and hatch reinforcements for the forward area.
5. Fit fuel tank and install the tank tie down brackets.
8. Prime and paint in all compartments and inner faces of gunnals.

I am not sure if I can do all of that in a week but hopefuly having a list will help. I am usually good at 'doing' but not so good at 'thinking' so there are a couple of complications.
1. Seat hatch access for the right seat box.
2. forward gunnal hatches.
3. The strip lighting for under the gunnals..... I think I will embed them in the bottom frame baton, but need to finalize that decision.

I will purchase the engine either at the beginning or end of vacation while traveling through Anchorage.

Here is the rough changes I will make to my console prototype... Is there any problem with leaving the lower curved section open for access?
console.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:26 pm
by OrangeQuest
Nice to see you back at it! Having a list to work off of is a great idea, I will need to add that to my list. :D

This maybe the fuel tank brackets you was thinking about:
https://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.ph ... &start=420

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:33 pm
by narfi
OrangeQuest wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:26 pm Nice to see you back at it! Having a list to work off of is a great idea, I will need to add that to my list. :D

This maybe the fuel tank brackets you was thinking about:
https://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.ph ... &start=420
Those are the ones, Thanks to Silentneko for the pictures and idea :) and you for remembering :P

I think I should easily be able to reach my July 1st goals if I just put my head down and grind away at the tasks,
However I struggle often with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analysis_paralysis

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:49 am
by narfi
Drilled the holes for the bow hook, transom hooks, motor mounting bolts, motorwell drains and transom compartment drains.

Wasnt sure what I wanted to overdrill them to, but realized the half inch holes I drilled fit the router bearings I have so used a 1 inch router bit to overdrill the holes. 3/4 would have been better I think and what I ended up using on the bow.


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20190429_215232.jpg

All went ok till I heard a loud hissing sound when over sizing one of the motorwell drain holes..........

I cut into the sealed compartment under the motorwell :(
20190429_214922.jpg
The picture looks sideways on my phone but the gap is in the bottom of the hole.

The bottom of the motorwell hits right at 5he bottom of the clamping board, so I'm pretty sure I hit the edge of the clamping board. At first I was worried I had gaps in the transom/clamping board but all the rest of the holes are clean all the way through, it's just the one I hit too low that went off the clamping board and broke the seal on the compartment.

I drilled at a sharper angle than I realized, so once I have it filled and sealed again I just need to be careful to drill it in the upper part of the filled area.

Was frustrated and didnt get as much done as I wanted, but progress is progress :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:07 am
by cape man
Epoxy fixes anything 8)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:48 am
by Jeff
Narfi, good to hear from you!! I hope Spring has brought you and Fuzz some nice weather!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:48 am
by narfi
cape man wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:07 am Epoxy fixes anything 8)
Yes! :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 2:01 am
by narfi
Jeff wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:48 am Narfi, good to hear from you!! I hope Spring has brought you and Fuzz some nice weather!!! Jeff
Rained a little today, but the last of the snow melted off our lawn last night.

I sanded a bit in the transom compartment corners using the triangle sanding attachment on a multitool.

Cleaned out the last of the over drilled holes in the transom and compartments with the little drum sander on the dremel tool pencile attachment.

Got some of the gunnel batons cut and preliminary fit.
If I lived near a store I would go buy one of those carpenters adjustable angle tools(not sure the name)
Might make one out of .040 aluminum at coffee break tomorow if I remember. Will help me see the inwall angle.

The inwall is broke up on both sides by the transom and seat boxes so I'm not to worried about precision, but do want it to be fairly uniform.

20190430_213636.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 9:19 am
by pee wee
narfi wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 2:01 am
If I lived near a store I would go buy one of those carpenters adjustable angle tools(not sure the name)
Might make one out of .040 aluminum at coffee break tomorow if I remember. Will help me see the inwall angle.
It's called a sliding T-bevel, or at least mine is. You should be able to make one out of two strips of wood with a small bolt & wing nut.

Image

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 11:46 pm
by narfi
2nd day in a row of cold and rain in the low 40s, fresh show in the mountains I can see from here.

Wont be getting my list done before vacation..... I could do most of it regardless of temperature, but just not feeling being out in the cold evenings after a long day at work.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 2:47 pm
by Fuzz
Feel free to keep that snow over on your side of the mountains :lol:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 3:04 pm
by Jeff
Narfi, I agree, that is just too cold!!! Enjoy your vacation!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun May 05, 2019 12:40 am
by narfi
Boss flew the crew into see the Great Alaskan Airmans trade show, so Landon and I came into Anchorage and momma will follow tomorow or Monday to start vacation. No point in flying home for 1 day.
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In less than a week we will be nearly naked, basking in the sun and cruising around the Caribbean!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun May 05, 2019 12:57 am
by Netpackrat
My wife took the kids to that today and it sounds like they had a good time. I ended up staying home to finish putting our downstairs floor back together... Yesterday morning a copper pipe from the water heater sprung a pinhole leak. I discovered it fairly early and put a temporary repair in place, but water got under my year old vinyl floor, so I ended up lifting up about half of the basement floor to get it all dried out. Was able to save most of the planks and only had to buy a couple additional bundles. Fun times. May be able to sneak over to the show tomorrow before everybody starts packing up.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun May 05, 2019 1:13 am
by narfi
Sorry about your floor and pipe, sounds frustrating :(
I used Rustoleum RockSolid garage floor tinted epoxy in our basement because I was worried about water damage to any new flooring we might put in. We did the two colors of slate grey and light grey applied with a two sided roller in Z and M patterns, I was amazed at how nice it made a very shoddy concrete slab look.

The big attraction at the show was 'Draco'. As impressive as it is, it's not for me. I did spend some time at the Zenith booth talking with them and looking at their local example of a 750 stol.
Their 750 Super Duty is at the top of a very short list for us to build after the FS17 is finished.
Time will tell if we do a kit or scratch build, but learning towards scratch build right now, their kits seem almost too easy.

I feel guilty not offering to help with your floor, but we have a pretty hectic day planned already.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun May 05, 2019 2:11 am
by Netpackrat
Thanks, but the floor is done other than a few pieces of trim, and you're on vacation. I have to work tomorrow anyway. The 700/750 are neat airplanes, and I would love to build one, but being an A&P I would probably want to use solid rivets wherever I could, mostly because I can, not because there is anything really wrong with the pull stem rivets they are designed for. I was building a Bearhawk from plans and built most of the parts needed to assemble wings before I stopped. I've come to the conclusion that I like working on them a lot more than I like flying them so I probably won't ever finish it unless maybe one of my kids takes an interest.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun May 05, 2019 11:12 am
by narfi
Netpackrat wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 2:11 am being an A&P I would probably want to use solid rivets wherever I could, mostly because I can, not because there is anything really wrong with the pull stem rivets they are designed for. I was building a Bearhawk from plans and built most of the parts needed to assemble wings before I stopped. I've come to the conclusion that I like working on them a lot more than I like flying them so I probably won't ever finish it unless maybe one of my kids takes an interest.
I am also an A&P and struggled with the idea of pull rivets, but have pretty much accepted that's how that plane is designed, and will be a good way for Landon to be involved.

I've rebuilt surfaces for certified planes and love the fit and feel and craftmanship of dimpled stringers and skins flush riveted together.....

I also think I probably enjoy the journey more than the destination. But for me part of that journey will be Landon learning to fly, so my "first" aircraft build will have some timeline goals.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 11:58 am
by Fair WX Pilot
Great flying pic's. It's also great that your son is interested in flying / aviation.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 8:06 pm
by narfi
Last big purchase done. Bought the motor today.

60hp Mercury Command Thrust
Bad thing was they only had then boxed with the "big tiller" and wouldn't sell without. Said their next shipment of motors isnt till August.

So I will have a big tiller kit for sale if anyone wants/needs one.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 2:33 am
by Netpackrat
narfi wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 11:12 am I also think I probably enjoy the journey more than the destination. But for me part of that journey will be Landon learning to fly, so my "first" aircraft build will have some timeline goals.
Oh yeah. I could very happily be plugging away on my airplane project, and in the end have something to be proud of, but which I probably wouldn't fly enough to maintain proficiency. Took me a long time to accept that. So I am better off spending that energy on other projects, unfortunately. If I really want to fly I can go with my brother in his airplane.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 6:23 am
by OrangeQuest
narfi wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 8:06 pm Last big purchase done. Bought the motor today.

60hp Mercury Command Thrust
Bad thing was they only had then boxed with the "big tiller" and wouldn't sell without. Said their next shipment of motors isnt till August.

So I will have a big tiller kit for sale if anyone wants/needs one.
Congratulations on getting the motor but sucks they wouldn't sell it without the kit. I am sure there is no demand for converting remote to tiller so you pay the price. Would they let you install the motor, convert to remote and still warranty the motor?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 8:02 am
by narfi
We didnt discuss warentee at all.... I'm not sure.
From what I understand it comes ready for remote in the box with the big tiller kit for converting to tiller. So I dont need to convert to remote as that is it's original configuration. I'll find out when I uncrate it I guess.....

There are a lot more tiller boats where I live than remote, so I just need to get lucky and find someone buying at the right time. From the website it looks like the tiller fits the 4strokes up to 150hp so there is a range of motors it can fit to. Will have to verify that when I uncrate it as well.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 8:24 am
by Jeff
Congrats on the motor Narfi!!! You should have absolutely no problem selling the tiller!!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 2:54 pm
by Fuzz
Just about everyone on the Kenai river has gone to tiller. I bet you will not have much problem selling the kit. What size and years does it fit?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 3:50 pm
by narfi
I'm in Georgia now, Fort Lauterdale by Friday, be home in a couple weeks and I'll be able to open it up.

All I know is from the website,
https://www.mercurymarine.com/en/us/gau ... ig-tiller/

Which says,
Compatible with full range of Mercury outboards.
40 to 250 horsepower engines. 40-150 hp Mercury FourStrokes. The complete OptiMax® Series, including Pro XS™ models. And 175-200 hp four-cylinder Verado® engines with SmartCraft® Digital Throttle & Shift (DTS).

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 2:55 am
by narfi
Got back into Anchorage from vacation Tuesday morning 9am, hit Costco for $870 worth of groceries and was able to catch an afternoon flight home.

Went to check on my boat and found a crate in the tent...
20190523_215316.jpg
Tonight I refamilirized myself with the project and filled all the over drilled holes with thickened epoxy.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 5:27 am
by OrangeQuest
That had to be an exciting moment!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 3:29 am
by narfi
Routed all the outer corners for the upper gunnal support batans and then glued them in place. Forgot to take a picture.

Was 95f in the tent this afternoon (probably 65 outside) after a nice sunny day. If this keeps up I have no excuses not to grind away hard on the project.

Talked to the mercury dealer on the phone today, they sold me a tach guage that was supposed to interface with my simrad go display, but it doesnt.

I will return the tach and buy a vessel view link which will interface well. It will send all the nmea2k into to the display but will also receive commands back like trolling controls. So it will do more than a nmea2k adaptor would. Probably fancier than I need, but if the motor supports it and the display supports it and I have both then I may as well make them work to their full potential.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 7:31 pm
by narfi
Landon competed in the pizza drop competition with a friend at the fly-in today.

You can see how close he hit to the cone in the last picture but it rolled a few feet away.
20190525_145148.jpg
Screenshot_20190525-150521_Gallery.jpg
Screenshot_20190525-150531_Gallery.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 11:54 pm
by Fuzz
Way cool contest! Not sure if they were close enough to the ground :help:
Making some great memories for Landon.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 11:40 am
by narfi
There was a link on my news feed this morning about the company and planes that deliver our fuel.
All the fuel we put in our planes, cars, boats, tractors, heating oil, village generators, etc... all comes to us in a plane like in this video.

https://www.ktuu.com/content/news/Watch ... wsource=cl

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 1:04 pm
by Fuzz
We used Everts to fly us fuel to our Beluga gas field. It was always great to see the old girls still working. They also had a DC-6 with the name of The Aviator. It was the personal plane of Howard Hughes at one time.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 1:44 pm
by Netpackrat
Used to load those; don’t miss them. Glad I have never had to work on any of that old shit. :lol:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 2:20 am
by narfi
Cut routed and fit most of the vertical batons for the gunwale and the openings to the rounded seat boxes. I decided against any hatches over those openings but will frame in the edges of the openings to reinforce them a little.

I will embed led lights in the forward rounded seat top attach batan, so need to route a groove in the bottoms of then and epoxy the lights in and wiring pigtails ready before gluing them in. Will probably do the same to the box under the drivers side console as it will be a good sized storage area. Probably the three upper batans show fitted now will all have lights.
20190527_220918.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 5:29 am
by OrangeQuest
Everything is looking Great!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 7:35 am
by piperdown
Wow! 8O Your boat is looking great!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:02 am
by Capt UB
Looks a lot bigger then 17? Very nice setup.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 10:58 am
by Jeff
Really well done NARFI!! Great layout and organized!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 11:34 am
by TomW1
Really nice layout. What thickness plywood are you using on the front deck.

Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:16 pm
by narfi
Thanks guys! Feels good to be back at it.
TomW1 wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 11:34 am Really nice layout. What thickness plywood are you using on the front deck.

Tom
3/8" plywood reinforced with 1 1/2" triangles and 12oz cloth. I have pictures posted in the thread here of it somewhere I will try to find for you.
Capt UB wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 9:02 am Looks a lot bigger then 17? Very nice setup.
Just barely over 17ft measured from the bow to top of transom, built to plans. Of course the water doesnt see that much at the waterline.
20190528_075321.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:19 pm
by narfi
Here you go tom,
20181014_170847.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 1:51 am
by narfi
Routed out groves for the compartment lights for the two rounded seat boxes, the storage box under the right console (left console will have fuel tank under it so no need for lights) and under the forward deck.

Thought about wiring a little... will have white lights inside compartments and blue accent lights under the gunwales. I've read long strings of led strip lights can get dimmer toward the end, so will wire then parallel and not in series, so will need a power wire for each color all the way around as well as a ground. If I was really fancy I could wire each end of each strip since they have a hot strip and a ground strip running up each side, but that seems a bit of overkill. It would mean the lights would still work with a broken wire though o.0.

To the left side I'll need a ground wire, a white LED wire, a blue led wire, a USB charger power wire, power wire to the fuel sender and a signal wire from the fuel sender (need to read the motor ingo some more to verify wiring for the sender.)
20190528_214043.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 10:35 am
by BB Sig
Sounds like a solid plan. Are you planning on using different color wires for the light purposes?

IE: Blue with violet stripe for blue lights and blue with black stripe for compartment lights.

https://www.cpperformance.com/t-boat_wiring_colors.aspx

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 11:02 am
by Fair WX Pilot
Hi Narfi, the boat looks great. Love the layout.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 11:59 am
by Netpackrat
In a land of utilitarian aluminum skiffs, it is definitely going to be a standout.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 1:41 pm
by narfi
BB Sig wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 10:35 am Sounds like a solid plan. Are you planning on using different color wires for the light purposes?

IE: Blue with violet stripe for blue lights and blue with black stripe for compartment lights.

https://www.cpperformance.com/t-boat_wiring_colors.aspx
Probably different colors, but probably not that anal about which colors.....
Fair WX Pilot wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 11:02 am Hi Narfi, the boat looks great. Love the layout.
Thanks... its all the details that take so long, I think I would be in the water already if I had not done any layout.
Netpackrat wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 11:59 am In a land of utilitarian aluminum skiffs, it is definitely going to be a standout.
hehe... my coworkers often shake their head at me over what they think are pointless extravagances in my build, but it is fun, and it will be unique when I am done.
I certainly could have bought a used lund locally with a motor for a lot cheaper, but I don't really like going down the lake with a stream of water shooting up through the middle of the floor.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu May 30, 2019 5:47 am
by narfi
Cut the lights to length.
Cut the rubber off the terminals on the ends of the strips.
Cut and stripped a bunch of short strips of wire for them.
Soldered the wires to each of the terminals.
Drilled holes through the ends of the grooved batons for the wire to git through.

Pealed the backing off the led strips and broke half the wires off trying to get them touted through the holes.
Soldered them all back on and tested them all.

Potted the whole thing with epoxy.
20190530_013131.jpg
Next time I will peel and stick the strips down and then solder the wires to them. The "circut" that the LEDs and terminals are on is so fragile that any movement of wire soldered solidly to it tears loose.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu May 30, 2019 6:42 am
by cape man
I doubt you have enough length to see the voltage drop and the dimming you are worried about. Can you test them to see before running the multiple lines and switches (or maybe you did...or maybe you really want separate switches...) :lol:

I like how you embedded them, but what will be the process for repair or replacement if you need to?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu May 30, 2019 7:11 am
by Capt UB
55 years ago we used a Coleman gas lantern....

Now I have an AA battery with LED's hooked up to it....

And I still can't see the hook I dropped on the deck!!! :wink:


My Scout SportFish CC had more LED lights on it, looked like a Christmas Tree at night. I really only used all the lights when coming and going from the boat ramp at night!! Going 70 mph on 95 at night with all the lights on....

Don't forget to use a fuse....

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu May 30, 2019 1:19 pm
by narfi
cape man wrote: Thu May 30, 2019 6:42 am I doubt you have enough length to see the voltage drop and the dimming you are worried about. Can you test them to see before running the multiple lines and switches (or maybe you did...or maybe you really want separate switches...) :lol:

I like how you embedded them, but what will be the process for repair or replacement if you need to?
Correct, the concern would only be if using a full length strip or multiple full length strips, or wiring them in series.
I will wire all the white LEDs (inside compartments) in parallel to a single switch, and all the blue LEDs (accents under gunwales and cupholders) in parallel to a single switch.
wiring.jpg
I will wire the led strip like shown on the left, parallel with each other, each strip will receive the same power from the same source, the first and last strip will be of equal brightness.
This uses more wire, but any failure will just cause problems for the single strip, not all of the remaining strips.

I had considered wiring like on the right, in series. For example under the gunwales, I would run a strip from bulkhead to bulkhead, then run short jumpers through the bulkhead to the next strip, and on and on around the boat. This would potentially with long enough run make the lights at the end dimmer than the ones at the beginning, but use less wire and be more prone to failure.(any break in the system would cut off all the lights past it.

I have no real plans for repair or replacement. They are not necessary, just a luxury, they are not visable when not in use, so not an issue if they fail down the road and need their wires cut.
I guess they could be cut out and replaced easily enough, or replaced with other bulbs attached under wherever, but they should last enough I am not too worried about them.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 1:00 am
by narfi
Watched the basketball game. Added another coat of epoxy over the lights to fill in the low spots where it dripped out around the wire holes. (I knew I would need to do that) then called it an early night. Stayed up past 2 messing with the resoldering the lights last night so was feeling it today, bad day to realize we were out of Kcups. :p

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 6:00 am
by OrangeQuest
Could do then both ways and have to sources of power to each light strip. :P

But like you say, not really needed so it is what it is. If failure of one you could always just cut it out and make another strip. The method on the left would make that easier. If you put little connects on each strip so they plug into the power wire it would be easier to replace. But I like the imbedding everything in epoxy idea. Will be harder for failure if it all works after the epoxy cures then it should last a very long time.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 7:09 am
by cape man
That all makes sense. Build On!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 7:39 am
by Jeff
Nice Narfi!!! Good organization!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 11:39 am
by narfi
OrangeQuest wrote: Fri May 31, 2019 6:00 am Could do then both ways and have to sources of power to each light strip. :P
Each location is unique and will be slightly different. The above diagram is greatly simplified.

The rounded seat boxes are small and only have one 12" strip, it will only be wired at one end(under the gunwale)

The bigger box under the console will have 3 longer strips, the three of them will be wired together and then powered from both ends where they go under the gunwale.

Under the forward deck will be 4 strips wired together in a loop and powered in one place, but because it's a loop is basicly powering both directions as well.

Haven't made the transom or bow hatches yet so not sure on them, but probably also short loops in the supports under the hatches.

Interesting side note: our village's underground power is in a loop from our powerhouse. A break or short in the line anywhere can be isolated to that leg and the rest of the village still has power.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 2:16 pm
by OrangeQuest
narfi wrote: Fri May 31, 2019 11:39 am
Interesting side note: our village's underground power is in a loop from our powerhouse. A break or short in the line anywhere can be isolated to that leg and the rest of the village still has power.
Hope figuring out where the break is doesn't involve licking your finger and sticking it in the ground and finding where you get your hair standing on end best!! 8O


:lol: :lol:

Your reasoning for wiring the way on the left makes sense and is sound reasoning. :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:50 am
by narfi
Covered the embedded LEDs with 1/2" blue plastic masking tape. 1/4 or 3/8 would have been a little better I think, but you work with what you have :)

Glued in all the batans with LED strips as well as the remaining vertical gunwale support batans.

Hooked up a dewalt battery to test how bright the lights were in place.
20190531_225130.jpg
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20190531_225318.jpg
I think they will be plenty bright for digging around in the compartments with. However I was really disappointed with the blue/purple color.
I know I checked and rechecked that I was using the white LEDs and not the blue, but the purple hue seemed even worse. I wondered if its from the color of the phanolic microbalones in the fairing compound reflecting the purple off the blue or something.

Then I realized it was because I had covered them all with the blue plastic masking tape.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:53 am
by cape man
:lol: :lol:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:10 am
by OrangeQuest
Now we know why they put the little labels on stuff "REMOVE FILM BEFORE USE".

:lol: :lol: :lol:

If they are that bright with the tape still on them they should be plenty bright after it is removed.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:08 am
by Netpackrat
Now you need to get some bling chrome spinners for your trailer wheels to go with the blue lights on the boat.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:13 am
by narfi
Netpackrat wrote: Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:08 am Now you need to get some bling chrome spinners for your trailer wheels to go with the blue lights on the boat.
This is a picture I took in Puerto Rico a couple weeks ago on vacation.... at first I thought it was a party bus or something, but I looked inside when it was at the stop sign and it was all uniformed children.
20190516_095225.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:23 am
by narfi
Ground out grooves in the batans for the right console box to lay down the connecting wires for the 3 light strips in it.

Glued on a few more batans I didnt finish last night.

Cut and fit all the long batans for the left gunwale.
20190601_195305.jpg
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20190601_195331.jpg
I'm not very happy with the jerkiness of it. I wish it was a more natural smooth rounded look.

I think I might redo the upper ones tomorow and use 1.5x3/4 instead of 3/4×3/4. Then I can grind a more pleasing shape into it before installing the plywood.

I think I only need to do this on the top and the bottom is ok straight for it's short stretches since its broken up and nothing to visually compare it to.

My current thought process is to install the inner wall first, then wire and rig everything, then cap it off with the top peice.

I'll be using mostly scraps(1/4 on the sides and 3/8 on the top) from the build which is nice and cheap but comes with the disadvantage of not providing it's own smooth flow of a rounded shape.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:56 am
by Fuzz
Glue all the scraps together with a layer of glass. Put the glass side on the inside when hanging and see if that does not give a fair curve.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:58 am
by narfi
Fuzz wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:56 am Glue all the scraps together with a layer of glass. Put the glass side on the inside when hanging and see if that does not give a fair curve.
What you say is so obvious, proof I cant see things when I am too close. :p

Spent most of the day moving dirt and mowing grass so didnt get as much as I wanted done. Took an extended water break and watched the basketball game, then put a couple hours in on the boat.

Ripped some more 1×4s in half and cut them to length, and then glued in place.
With the wider batans I can now clamp a long thin one in place over it to trace a nice fair curve that I will then grind down to meet the line drawn.
20190602_195511.jpg
I need to glue down the front deck before I can continue the gunwale there, but I want it to be fair as well.....

I probably need to prime and paint in all the compartments pretty soon....

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:29 am
by narfi
narfi wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:55 pm Finaly got around to pull testing the ziptie brackets.

I clamped the plywood test peice in a vise and pulled down at a 45 degree angle with wire looped through the holes.

Just the foam tape pulled off at 35 pounds
Adhesive scraped off and thickened epoxy glued with remaining tape pulled off at 45 pounds
The one with thickened epoxy applied to the unaltered adhesive foam held..... the wire broke through the bracket at about 50 pounds so I put ware through the other way and it pulled through at 90 pounds.

20181004_184350.jpg

I only did one of each and find it hard to believe the difference is that great, but they still failed in the order I expected, so will go with that approach when installing them.

The two that failed each started peeling up against the wood but once started tore through the foam, so if a weak point was started I think the third sample would fail much sooner as well.
Found my notes.... looks like peel the adhesive backing and apply thickened epoxy.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:08 am
by narfi
Soldered the three strips in the right console box together in the grooves I ground out with the pencil attachment for my dremel tool and then potted it in epoxy.
20190603_225853.jpg
Soldered all the strips under the front deck together in a loop with a set of pigtails hanging out to hook power to.

Added fillets to the edges of all the strips and piled some thickened epoxy over the connecting wires so they cant get snagged on anything.

Glued down zip tie mounts with thickened epoxy, for wiring going around to the other side of the boat as well as forward to the bow compartment lights.
20190603_225759.jpg
I have decided to stay strong and not sand the underside of the front deck to a polished finish. It's a struggle but I can do it...... you would have to crawl into the compartment upside down to ever see it, and at that stage I dont think will care about the finish there. I will prime and paint it however, so it will reflect the lights to see stuff in there.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:36 am
by Aripeka Angler
Nice work, I love the way you layed out the compartments!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:41 am
by Jeff
Nice work Narfi!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:44 pm
by Capt UB
You guys are thinking too small....

When done this will be my LM18 at night.... :lol:

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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:55 pm
by narfi
Capt UB wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:44 pm You guys are thinking too small....

When done this will be my LM18 at night.... :lol:
CaptUB.jpg
CaptUB.jpg (129.47 KiB) Viewed 2114 times
8O 8O :lol: 8) :P :roll: :wink: :D :D :) 8O 8O :? 8) :lol: :lol:

*edit... the picture isnt showing for me.. if you dont see it Capt, you need to click on it :lol: :lol:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:58 pm
by Capt UB
narfi wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:55 pm
Capt UB wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:44 pm You guys are thinking too small....

When done this will be my LM18 at night.... :lol:

CaptUB.jpg
8O 8O :lol: 8) :P :roll: :wink: :D :D :) 8O 8O :? 8) :lol: :lol:

*edit... the picture isnt showing for me.. if you dont see it Capt, you need to click on it :lol: :lol:
8) :lol:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:24 am
by narfi
narfi wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:08 am
I have decided to stay strong and not sand the underside of the front deck to a polished finish.

So I installed another layer of fairing compound under the front two compartments :/
20190604_220725.jpg
I had some pretty rough areas where I had spliced multiple layers of cloth in the area.

My thought is the underside of the deck isnt that big of a deal, I'll leave it rough and prime and paint it, no way for muck to get on it unless I submerge the boat or flip it or something equally stupid.

However the sides and bottom of the compartments could get all varieties of mud or muck on them and so I want them smooth enough to clean easily even if I dont care about the looks as much.

I purchased a whole box of plastic bondo spreaders and wow it makes a huge difference using a new one vs milking an old one along for way to many uses.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:45 am
by OrangeQuest
It is interesting how sand and dirt finds it way in areas you wouldn't think it would get to. Most the time it is the rinsing the mud out that causes the spread of it. I feel the same on my build, areas that have limited access gets sanded to a fairly smooth surface where dirt can't settle and then sealed.

Your boat is really looking great!

The foredeck is for anchor locker? and what is the thinking on nav lights? I bought shark eye type light but they are not very well made so either I use the housings for molds or go with something else completely.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:21 am
by Jeff
Nice Narfi!!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:25 am
by narfi
OrangeQuest wrote: Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:45 am
Your boat is really looking great!

The foredeck is for anchor locker? and what is the thinking on nav lights? I bought shark eye type light but they are not very well made so either I use the housings for molds or go with something else completely.
Thanks!

Anchor and a short ladder I think. Lader is the main reason I went full depth for that compartment and not a raised flat floor in it.

For a nav light I purchased this off Amazon, it's cheap so hopefully i dont regret it.

LEANINGTECH Boat Marine LED Navigation Lights Marine Navigation Lamp, Red and Green LED for Boat Pontoon Yacht Skeeter https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075TZFBB2/re ... 9CbNCWBZEY

I also got a socket and pole light for near the transom.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:19 pm
by silentneko
I'm a big fan of Oznium.com's products. They are budget friendly, quality built, and they have great customer service. I picked up their nav lights, they are mounted like a sharkeye, but require a much smaller hole. I tested them and they seem plenty bright. And they are in an aluminum housing.


https://www.oznium.com/marine-led-light ... tion-light

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:42 pm
by narfi
Those do look nice, both the ones you linked and the sharkeye ones.
I am on a bit of a spending freeze right now though, took half a month off in may for family vacation and bought the motor....... not a good combo package for the old bank account :/
So I will probably stick with what I got for now, and if/when I break it down the road upgrade to something like you show.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:39 pm
by OrangeQuest
I also will be using the socket for my anchor light. I got sockets on sale at Academy last year then found the light on sale later.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:42 pm
by OrangeQuest
silentneko wrote: Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:19 pm I'm a big fan of Oznium.com's products. They are budget friendly, quality built, and they have great customer service. I picked up their nav lights, they are mounted like a sharkeye, but require a much smaller hole. I tested them and they seem plenty bright. And they are in an aluminum housing.


https://www.oznium.com/marine-led-light ... tion-light
I am surprised you have not made your own? They don't have to be UL certified as long as they meet the standard. Lots of lights sold for kayaks/boats that are not certified but state they meet or exceed the USCG regulation.

Edit: I am also a big fan, after you posted your findings on the lights I ordered some of their stuff.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:44 pm
by silentneko
OrangeQuest wrote: Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:42 pm ]

I am surprised you have not made your own? They don't have to be UL certified as long as they meet the standard. Lots of lights sold for kayaks/boats that are not certified but state they meet or exceed the USCG regulation.

Edit: I am also a big fan, after you posted your findings on the lights I ordered some of their stuff.
I considered making some, but no way could I make a housing as nice or compact as ozniums. Plus the lens makes sure you get the proper spread of light. And they are cheap.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:02 pm
by cape man
My only advice is mount the lights as far forward as possible to keep the light off the deck which interferes with your vision when running in the dark. I went with shark eyes for that reason. We owned a 20 foot Sport Craft that had the lights about a foot back from the bow and that's all you could see at night.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:37 am
by narfi
Watched the basketball game after work (started recording at 5, got home at 6 and started watching, this works nice as I can watch Simi live and after fastforwarding half time and all the commercials I'm caught up to live near the end of the game.) then sanded off most of the fairing compound I applied yesterday.

Decided to save a day by priming tonight instead of tomorow. Vacuumed up all the dust, blew the compartments out with an air nozzle. Wiped off all the remaining dust with a damp sponge. Taped off the areas that will be glued. Mixed the primer and let it sit 15 minutes then sprayed.

You really should never paint in a hurry...... I ran it pretty bad in a few places and then entire squadrons of gnats landed in it and made primer trails everywhere before bogging down and leaving their corpses as well.

If I had waited till a hot afternoon baking in the tent and approached it a little slower and methodical, I dont think I would have got the runs I did.
I haven't had issues with bugs in the tent this year until tonight. I think it might be because it finaly got dark around 1am when i started spraying, so the bugs were drawn to the lights and then the reflections in the primer. Perhaps if i had sprayed during the day I wouldn't have attacked so many... who ok knows, it's a theory anyways.

Pictures look nicer than reality, but it's good enough for the location its in..... I'm hoping once the primer cures I can lightly ho over the bugs with some scotch brite without wearing through the primer. The runs are under the deck so you would have to get down on your knees and stick your head in the hatch to see em. One good thing about runs is they are smooth, so wont have to worry about ease of wiping grime off them :)
The forward compartment that will be much easier to look into actually turned out pretty nice.
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:34 am
by BB Sig
I figured with the freezing temps up there you wouldn't have a bug problem. :( They breed year round down here! :help:

:lol: Runs are not able to be seen from my seat. Keep up the good work!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:44 am
by Jeff
Looks good Narfi!!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:57 am
by OrangeQuest
Check it out Narfi!
4238

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:23 am
by narfi
OrangeQuest wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:57 am Check it out Narfi!
4238
Earlier in this thread I think I considered something like that, but I have simplified alot and for this build will stick with just a portable step stool, it will just be for beach boarding..... not many people intentionaly swim here.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:29 am
by narfi
Had some good sun today and the tent was mid 90s F for most of the afternoon. The primer baked well and so I was able to paint tonight.

I think my theory about bugs just comming to the tent lights once it gets dark might be correct. No issue with bugs this time and 2 coats of white paint actually turned out pretty decent for as rough as the primer looked.

I scuffed all the bugs out with scotch brite and blasted them with an air nozzle before spraying. The compartments got 2 good coats and the underside of the deck one and a half. I didnt figure it was worth mixing more for it so when I did It last and stopped when the gun was empty.
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:10 am
by Aripeka Angler
That looks real nice. 8)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:29 am
by OrangeQuest
Yes, it did turn out looking good!

It was in the mid 90s? It gets that warm up there?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:23 am
by narfi
OrangeQuest wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:29 am Yes, it did turn out looking good!

It was in the mid 90s? It gets that warm up there?
Hehe, no.
It was 65-70f outside. But the tent works like a greenhouse and heats up nicely with direct sun.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:33 pm
by OrangeQuest
We are still having winter like conditions here, barely getting in the low to mid 90s here on cloudy days.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:54 pm
by narfi
OrangeQuest wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:33 pm We are still having winter like conditions here, barely getting in the low to mid 90s here on cloudy days.
If that was my winter, then my boat would be in the water already.....

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:08 am
by narfi
Had cookout with a friends family tonight, but still snuck out and glued down the front deck.

I set my watch in there to see how easy it was to see....
20190607_205312.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:52 am
by OrangeQuest
That looks really nice! is the tape still covering the lights or did you use blue LED strips?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:58 am
by narfi
OrangeQuest wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:52 am That looks really nice! is the tape still covering the lights or did you use blue LED strips?
Neither. Its white light reflecting off of white paint. Not sure why the slightly blue glow, but it is white.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:53 pm
by narfi
Took the weights off the front deck and filled the gaps around the edge and layed fillets for taping it down.
20190608_123612.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:48 pm
by narfi
Routed over the rear edge of the front deck to a nice radius for taping and looks. Then taped all sides of the deck down.
20190608_174441.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:59 am
by Fuzz
Looking good Narfi. You are getting close now :D

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:15 am
by Netpackrat
Looks like it's going to be one of those boats... Even if you guys leave the area, it will be prized by whomever ends up with it, coveted by the others, and no matter who the current owner is, will always be referred to as your boat.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:58 pm
by narfi
Thanks guys :)

Sanded down the edges of the tape and covered the front deck with 6oz cloth.

101f in the tent but apparently still rising.... there are a few areas of bubbles, but with a big flat horizontal surface should be easy enough to sand and fair once cured.
20190609_145500.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:35 pm
by OrangeQuest
From the picture, other than the white fading it looks like you have it feathered pretty good.

Edit: was 104° at the warehouse today at 1:00 P.M.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:43 pm
by narfi
The white is overspray from painting the compartment underneath before installing the deck.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:53 am
by narfi
A little windy, but too nice a day for Landon and a couple of his friends to pass up a chance at the bay.
20190609_194840.jpg
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The forward gunwale frames were cured enough to remove the clamps but not to sand down.
I did lay out a baton on them though and think the curved line looks pretty good.
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:44 am
by Fuzz
I think that is going to look good :wink:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:54 am
by narfi
No boat work for me last night.
A friends fuel tanks, sauna,shop, and garage attached to his house burned down late yesterday.

About 30-40 of us were there evacuating their personal possessions and fighting the fire.

Thankfully it was stopped before getting to the house but for a while there we were sure it was a gonner.
Pretty sad to tear through someone's house trying to grab what you think they would want most. Pictures, guns, mounts, electronics, etc....

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:06 pm
by Capt UB
narfi wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:54 am No boat work for me last night.
A friends fuel tanks, sauna,shop, and garage attached to his house burned down late yesterday.

About 30-40 of us were there evacuating their personal possessions and fighting the fire.

Thankfully it was stopped before getting to the house but for a while there we were sure it was a gonner.
Pretty sad to tear through someone's house trying to grab what you think they would want most. Pictures, guns, mounts, electronics, etc....


You guys are good people, not to sure if that happened in my neighborhood how many of us would be out there. In my sailing/living aboard days, we were all family at the marinas or anchorages. It was what you did.... Nobody took notes or expected anything back...

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:52 pm
by Netpackrat
Sometimes I miss living in a small town in Alaska.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:22 am
by narfi
Ground down the curves to the line I marked on the gunwale frames.

Finished cutting the lower frame/light fixture peices.
20190611_215636.jpg
I've been wondering how I can glass all the scraps together for the inwall considering the curve and angle mean there are no straight lines.

I think I will cut each of the 6 peices to shape and clamp them in place, then duct tape them thouraly together, then carefully unclamp and bring them into the house (haven't told my wife yet) where I have a large enough flat surface (the dining room floor) to glass tape all the pieces together on the inner surfaces.


Then with the glassed together flat panel, it will finish off making a very fair curve against my roughly shaped frames, with thickened epoxy filling any gaps along the way.

Do you guys think that will work?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:05 am
by Jaysen
If your wife is a bad shot or she likes you, it will work fine.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:00 am
by narfi
Routed the grooves in all the frames that will have lights in them.

Trimmed the light strips to fit, peeled off the backing and stuck them into the grooves.

Soldered the pigtails to the strips. Doing this after sticking them down worked so much better than the first frames I did.

Covered the LED strips and wires in the grooves with epoxy, then Landon tested each one to verify they worked.
20190612_231454.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:41 am
by OrangeQuest
The shelves behind are looking a lot like my shelves. Everything on them has a nice layer of dust where it's hard to tell what color everything is.

Seems you got the lighting down pretty good!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:32 am
by Jeff
Looks like you have a young boat builder working with you again!! We have not seen Landon lately, good to see him!! Any update on the future airplane build? Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:35 am
by narfi
My organization is pretty bad in the tent right now and the dust even worse :)

As for the plane, still strongly thinking scratch building the Zenith 750 Super Duty (hehe I said doody)

Might not start till next year, not sure..... would love to start this fall, but we have kitchen, bathroom, main floor remodel planned which will strain the time and money budgets.

Still not sure if I have 3 weeks, 3 months, or 3 years left on the boat...... pretty sure it's one of the first two though :p

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:57 am
by narfi
Glued all the lower gunwale frames and light fixtures in place.

Hope to cut the inner gunwale (inwale?) peices tomorow.
20190613_215419.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:44 am
by OrangeQuest
Your boat is really starting to come together!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:21 am
by narfi
Cut all the inwall panels from scraps.
Left .5 to 1 inch too tall so when all glassed together there would be a little room for error trimming.

Duct taped one side together and clamped a 1x2 along the top edge to keep it straight, then brought it into the house to glass on a large flat surface.(the dining room floor)

Removed the clamps and 1x2 once it was laid down flat and realized it was just a wet noodle with several inches of play..... impossible to glass straight enough to go back into place on the boat.

Super frustrated but think I have a plan figured out.
The main issue with fairness between panels is just the front two on each side, so I will glass them together for a smooth transition there and then just be very careful when gluing the rest down to keep them flush with each other.
20190614_223805.jpg
20190614_223823.jpg
So plan now is to trim the tops of all the panels flush with the frames,
Glass tape the front two panels on each side together,
Cut the access panels in each of the front panels and bond a reinforcing backing plate around the hole,
Glue all the side panels in place.

The inwalls I've made 1/4". The top of the gunwale will be 3/8".
I dont have large enough peices of 3/8" left for the tops of the transom compartments so will need to splice some smaller peices together for that.

This will leave me 2 full length sheets of 1/4" plywood about 2/3s wide to make the consoles from. The plans console uses 3/8" so I will need to make sure I double up and reinforce the critical areas.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:45 pm
by narfi
Aripeka Angler wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:59 pm I was just thinking about this last week when someone posted about building gunwales out of scrap pieces of plywood.
The seams in the gunwale boards need butt blocks on the bottom side after they are taped-if they are not joined over a frame.
Some slap one layer of 6 ounce over the deck without taping the seams-this is a terrible idea.
Tape every seam, bottom and top. Then put on the deck cloth.
The deck and gunwale ply catches hell in rough seas.
If you are going to be rough, overkill is the answer.
You can fix this, it’s not terminal.
Edit, I think your taping process was spot on.
Butt block the bottom and retape the top, this should correct the issue.

That was probably me.......

All my seams are on bulkheads with batons glued each side for a roughly 2 inch beam the seams meet at.

My intent was 12oz tape over the two top edges (probable overkill) and seams, then see how they meet in the middle rather I just fair it or add a layer of 6oz on the top and inner sidewall.

Do you think I am asking for trouble?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:28 am
by Aripeka Angler
Joined over bulkheads should work fine. Tape both sides and edges including the actual seam. Glass over the top and wrap.
The trouble really starts when the seam is not over bulkhead or frame and the bottom isn’t at least taped and preferably taped and butt blocked.
Someone, somewhere is saying “I didn’t do that an I have no cracks”. If it’s not done right and you hammer the boat, it’s going to crack.
The big drops on your gunwales are going to add a ton of strength as well...

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:17 am
by narfi
Aripeka Angler wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:28 am The big drops on your gunwales are going to add a ton of strength as well...
I have bigger drops than most I've seen on here,
My rubrails are 4 layers of 1/4" plus the 1/4" hull panel,
The gunwales are 8.5"+ wide which is wider than a lot I see on here,
All of the bulkhead stations are integrated into the layout for basicly the equivalent of full size bulkheads instead of 3" tapered down I see alot on here,
I plan to use more tape and glass on the top edges than is required.

My main concern is the holes for the rod holders and cup holders, but I think centered 8n the 8.5" tops with backing plates around the holes it should be ok.

Hopefully it turns out stout enough.....

Tonight I wasted some time trying to figure out the compartment hatches for the gunwale access on the front deck. Borrowed an aluminum aircraft access panel from work I was going to use as a template. Dug out the fancy router template bushings I bought last winter and discovered they are too fancy for my router..... either it doesnt work with my router or I need a different guide plate for them to mount to. (Or I need someone to point out the obvious way they are supposed to be used.....)
20190618_011938.jpg
So I cut out and sanded rounded ends on a template for just going around with the guide that came with my router.
Here is the two templates, one for the hole in the panel, and one for the backing plate.
20190618_011849.jpg
Once that was done I glued the backing plates on and installed the front three panels on each side that I had already glassed together. I am happy with the results and the inside curve is nice and fair instead of angular like my first attempt.

20190618_011717.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:32 am
by Capt UB
Looking nice.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:21 am
by narfi
Made a template from an old peice of exterior plywood and cut out the hatch for the bow compartment.
20190619_232116.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:02 am
by OrangeQuest
Things seem to be coming together nicely.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:48 am
by Jeff
Niced work Narfi!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:44 am
by narfi
Taped all the seams for the gunwale inside panels, taped the front panel down to the deck.
20190621_003215.jpg
20190621_003819.jpg
Reinforced the underside of the transom compartment cover panels with 12oz tape, I layed it in such a way that the tapes overlapped on the seams of the scraps i made them from.

20190621_003236.jpg
Was planning to glue on the 1x4 reinforcements around the bow hatch hole, but it was getting late and my back was hurting from leaning over laying out all the tapes.

12:40 in the morning and it was light enough to take this picture in my backyard without a flash.......

20190621_003919.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:50 am
by Aripeka Angler
Beautiful, I don’t see any way that you’ll have crack issues. 8)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:55 am
by Capt UB
Do these boats have issues with the cold weather you get up there? I mean wood composite boats, not wood only boats.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:21 am
by Jeff
Narfi, hard to believe that is 12:40 AM and that light out there!!! Got your order, will process this morning and ship USPS by lunch today (Friday, June 21). And your FS17 is really looking nice!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:52 pm
by Fuzz
Capt UB wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:55 am Do these boats have issues with the cold weather you get up there? I mean wood composite boats, not wood only boats.
My dory is 7 years old and lives outside year around. The cold does not seem to have effected it at all. I think you guys have more problems due to the sun and heat.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:37 am
by narfi
135f in the tent today, wish I had a lot of epoxy to cure......

Sanded the undersides of the transom hatch top panels and fitted the reinforcement/hatch lip and glued them in place.

Layed out the top panels of the gunwales and glassed the seam, then once it was cured i flipped them over and glassed the underside of the seam as well.
20190623_003947.jpg
Having layed out the tops of the gunwales let me see what kind of scraps I had left over and there are large enough peices that I can make the transom and bow hatches out of single peices without any splicing.

I certainly wont make my goal of July 1st, but perhaps by the middle of the month is doable.........

My biggest question right now is how to handle the top of the motorwell bulkhead.
I dont like the top edge being unreinforced...... I'm not sure how much clearance there is with the motor up. Ideally I could make a channel on the backside of the bulkhead maybe 2 inches, but I'm not sure if I have enough clearance to do that or not...... anyone know?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:47 am
by thb
Narfi,

Your build is looking real good. I do not understand why you feel you need to beef up the motor well area. Assume you are talking about the forward frame of the motor well bulkhead. Is it glassed all over now with cloth and epoxy. If you add a strip of more cloth and epoxy on the rear side that should stiffen it up.

Regards
Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:48 pm
by narfi
Just the top lip.

It doesn't need to be stronger structurally I feel it needs to be stronger to take abuse.

And for looks....

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:04 pm
by thb
I understand. If you apply a 1x1 or 3/4 by 3/4 piece with a rounded edge on the underside you could easily glass over the top and toward the transom and it should take any abuse folks can throw at it. If the motor when raised up all the way, contacts it, you can always cut it back but I think you will have clearance.
Regards
Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:49 pm
by narfi
Cut the tops to size.... now I have another horizontal surface to stack stuff on.......
20190623_124559.jpg
Need to do lots of little finishing stuff and cutting holes for wiring and cables and hoses.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:51 pm
by cape man
Awesome!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:51 pm
by OrangeQuest
Yes it is very awesome!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:09 pm
by Fuzz
So is it warm enough to work there? It is dang hot over on my side of the pond :help:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:13 pm
by Bogieman
She's looking good!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:13 am
by narfi
Fuzz wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:09 pm So is it warm enough to work there? It is dang hot over on my side of the pond :help:
Yup it's hot, but I'm not complaining. Hope it keeps up for the next couple weeks as I push on getting this done. I enjoy the project but would like to get out on the lake this summer. Landon went out with some friends today, boated across to a nice beach and hung out with their boys his age for the afternoon.

I ground the supports down enough I could slide the fuel tank in. The box is big enough for it no problem, but with the batans glued around the lip it just wouldn't quite fit in.

Cut and glued the last of the supports for tops of the console base boxes.(the support against the gunwale)

Filleted around the hatch supports for the bow and transom hatches.

Cut the fuel tank tiedown stips. I had layed them up yesterday with 3 layers of 12oz. I cut 5 1" strips and 8ntended to glue a sample one to something today but forgot.

Drilled holes in all the bulkheads for wiring cables and plumbing. I forgot about the battery cables to the motor..... will have to see if they will fit with the other cables or if I need another hole. The plug for the controls to the motor is pretty big, had to cut a 1 3/4" hole for the end but the cable is much smaller.

Glued 2 scraps of 5/8" together with a peice of 12oz cloth in between I will use to mount the transducer. I'm sure its overkill but figured the glass may help keep the embedded bold heads from pulling through.... I plan to epoxy them in with the threads sticking out like studs.

I keep thinking I'm nearly done but then realize just how many time consuming little things are left.

Once I get all the little stuff done I'll prime and paint inside the gunwales and compartments, then do the plumbing and wiring, then I'll hopefully be ready to glue the tops on everything.

Then glass and fair it all and make the consoles, fair the exterior...... prime and paint.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:26 am
by OrangeQuest
Sounds like a lot of work!

Your boat is really looking good Narfi!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:56 am
by Jeff
Good progress Narfi!!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:33 am
by narfi
Cleaned up the openings on the back of the rounded seat boxes and routed a nice radius around it.

Spent most of the night sanding down all the tapes on the gunwale side panels and feathering the edges down.

Routed the bottom edge of the gunwale side panels.

They look good unless you stick your head underneath, then they look pretty ugly, but i doubt anyone is going to be looking up inside the gunwales....... one of those things I have to accept it isnt worth the time to make something no one will ever see look nice.

Realized when drilling holes this weekend I cut off one of the pigtails to the lights under the drivers rounded seat. I will have to figure out if there is enough wire sticking out I can solder to or if I need to figure out another fix.

I was hoping to epoxy seal all the bare wood and battons today but by the time I was done with all that it was nearly 2am :(

I did sweep and vacume. Tomorow I need to to a little more sanding in the various compartments and under the gunwale where turds of thickened epoxy had dripped while gluing in all the support batons. Then hopefully if I get that done quickly enough I can seal everything while it's still hot in the tent.

I noticed something interesting today, I hope it's nothing to be concerned with...... the center sections of the sole, between the stringers and each bulkhead are "inflated" just a little bit. I imagine the air in the sealed compartments has expanded and is trying to inflate then like a balloon.

I see it as proof it is well sealed, but I do wonder how the shrinking/expanding cycles will effect all the seams over tine.

I'm considering mounting the engine once I have the compartments and inside the gunwales painted so that I can route and rog and wire and plumb everything and give myself a chance to correct anything before putting the lids of the compartments in and the gunwale decks. Then once satisfied remove it for final fairing and painting etc. ..

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:00 am
by narfi
Finished the touch up sanding under the gunwales and inside the compartment boxes.

Cut the grooves for the lights in the transom and bow hatch supports. Sometimes I amaze myself at how good I am at missing obvious solutions. The edge guide for my router is too tall to run around the outside of the reinforcements so i ran it from the inside so it could sit down in the hatch opening, but its super wide and so couldnt do the 3-4 inches at each end of a run which is a significant portion for hatches this size. Forcing the issue an extra half to one inch ended up with ugly curved grooves. (Who cares what they look like they face down and are potted with epoxy anyways, but still I didnt like it. Did some other stuff for a little while and then realized I didnt need the guide, I could just clamp a straight edge the right distance from the edge and use the guard on the router against it. I ended up with decent grooves for the lights with just the little extra wide spots from first run that I can just fill with epoxy. It was so obvious though..... not sure why I could t see it.

Swept, vacuumed then air blasted out the boat.

Epoxy sealed all the batons and hidden faces of the gunwale as well as the underside of the top gunwale panels.

Cut and fitted the light strips and stuck them down into the grooves. Soldered up the strips with pigtails to wire up once installed on one of the panels but was too tired to finish the other two. I had wanted to get them done and epoxy coated tonight.

Comming home from work tonight I twisted my ankle real bad, so lost 45min or so icing it before I was good enough to limp around. I think I could have gotten the panels finished if I hadnt done that.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:44 pm
by narfi
Last night I finished soldering up the bow and transom compartment lights, then potted them in epoxy and sealed all the bare wood.

We had guests staying in the basement apartment so my wife said I couldn't make sanding noises after 10pm. So I went to bed early o.0

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:06 am
by narfi
Did a little more sanding and taped off the areas where I will be bonding the lids and top of gunwale down and thin tape over the potted led lights. then primed under the gunwales and compartments and their lids. Basicly everywhere you cant see once the boat is done.....
20190627_224257.jpg
20190627_224304.jpg
20190627_224337.jpg
I wouldn't be happy with it for viable areas but I think I'm getting better about being "ok" with "ok" where it cant be seen :p

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:42 am
by OrangeQuest
Everything is looking good!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:50 am
by Jeff
Nice job Narfi!!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:10 am
by narfi
156f in the tent this afternoon.... o.0

Starting to get some of Fuzz's second hand smoke too,........ hope all is well over there.

I painted everything I primed yesterday. Went well, really showed the spots where I ran the primer but it's all places people wont see so I'm ok with it :) atleast if I spray it down with water it should clean out easy enough which was my only goal in the hard to see areas.

I wonder if brushing or rolling would be better in areas like that, but think I would have just as much trouble In all the crevices and hard to reach areas as i did spraying....... i know brushing the resin on i got lots of drips and mess.....

Will see how it is tomorow, may hang the motor if I have time to start all the rigging plumbing and wiring.

Boss's grandson the IIIrd is getting married tomorow so the village is kind of a large zoo right now.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:59 am
by narfi
What do normal people do between the hours of 10 and 2 while they are waiting for dusk so they can go to sleep and they arent working on their boats?

I got bored so I went out and peeled off all the tape I had down on the areas still to be bonded.
20190628_234851.jpg
20190628_234912.jpg
20190628_234743.jpg
20190628_234818.jpg
Something happened with my lights between the first and second coat of paint.... they stopped working so I will need to troubleshoot them some. Took these pictures at 11.45pm so you can see it's still light enough to get around fine but not to do any detail work in the evenings.

Lots of sun shining through when I was painting though so it was fine for what i was doing. It would have been a bigger deal if it happened when painting the visable stuff though :/

As you can see I'll need to do a LOT of cleaning up on the tent before I spray any finish paint as well.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:29 pm
by narfi
narfi wrote: Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:59 am
Something happened with my lights between the first and second coat of paint.... they stopped working so I will need to troubleshoot them some.
Well I'm not sure what happened, but turning off and on the switch at the bulbs that came with them turned em back on. I've never had this issue before.... I wonder if it was just a fluke or if there is some sort of thermal sensor.... they were cheap lights but who knows what electronics are hiding in them.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:12 am
by narfi
Not much time today but was able to con a couple of young lads into comming over after the wedding and helping lift the motor up onto the transom.

The boat is about 1/2" too low so the motor isnt quiet against the transom yet. Is there a way to manually tilt a power tilt motor? I need to read up on this thing :p

There was no steering arm which is frustrating. The salesman told me it was setup for remote steering but I was required to purchase the tiller as they were packaged together. I'll have to call their service guys Monday, they are much more helpful than the salesman.

I dug out the wire I had purchased and I'm pretty sure I went overkill on sizing, even beyond conservative..... dont think I want to use it now....

What I know I need/want that I think I can get delivered to the airport by napa.

Fuel line.
Filler hose.
Vent hose. (I need to double check but think its same size as the fuel line)
Battery
Wire

From preliminary check it looks like everything will fit through the holes I drilled.

The shift/throttle cables are long enough for a loop, but I think that's ok, need to look at some installs and see how that's all supposed to look.

The steering cable looks close to the right size but maybe 6" long.... will need to hold the dummy console up and see how it fits into the steering column.
20190629_224211.jpg
20190629_224359.jpg
20190629_224134.jpg
I really need to take a day to clean and organize.........

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:34 am
by narfi
narfi wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:12 am . Is there a way to manually tilt a power tilt motor? I need to read up on this thing :p

Found it......

https://youtu.be/OaOKPLEhIsE

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:07 am
by Jaysen
Can you just shovel out a bit of the ground? O forget if you had a floor or not.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:00 pm
by narfi
Jaysen wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:07 am Can you just shovel out a bit of the ground? O forget if you had a floor or not.
It is just dirt, but the tarp is trapped by the strongback and table saw etc... I'd probably just cut a hole in the tarp for that, but the video I found makes manual tilt look fairly easy so I'll just do that.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:04 pm
by Fuzz
I bet that puppy is going to rip with that engine on it. With weather like this it must be tough to not be out on the lake.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:44 pm
by narfi
VessleView Link is the name of the adaptor/device that translates the engine data to interface with the Simrad Go screen.

The tracker shop was happy to sell me the device knowing what I wanted to do with it, that it was for a new install of the engine they sold me for a boat I was building.

Installation instructions for the VessleView assume that you already have an NMEA2000 powered backbone network installed and an open junction box on your Mercury Smartcraft network........

It is NOT just hooking the cables from one to the next :/

I found a good overview of what is needed for the NMEA network,
https://www.actisense.com/wp-content/up ... etwork.pdf

But the smartcraft network and junction box is just whispered about in the corners of the web with no authoritative info available. It sounds like there needs to be termination plugs at certain places in the network but no real explanation of where or how or why......

Currently I have,
The motor which has a smartcraft plug and the big round cannon plug that goes to the remote control.
The remote control then has a smartcraft cable off of it (so it is closer to the consol than the plug at the motor)
*****I think I need the SmartCraft junction box plugged into the smartcraft cable here, and perhaps a termination plug)
VessleView Link has the SmartCraft Plug and NMEA 2000 plug
*****I think I need the powered NMEA backbone here (perhaps it could be directly wired, but it sounds like the nmea network needs to be powered on its own?)
The Simrad Go 7" screen.


Edit just got done talking to the tech and spending more money......

He is giving me a steering arm.
He is selling me a SmartCraft Junction box and resistor plug.
He is giving me a second resistor to use depending on where I plug it in.
He is selling me a NMEA starter kit which includes the power injector for the backbone.
He is selling me a fuel gauge harness to run the wire from my fuel tank to.

Each extra thing is pretty much another $65 o.0

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:27 pm
by BB Sig
Can you do a "how to" when you get this figured out? :doh:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:32 pm
by narfi
BB Sig wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:27 pm Can you do a "how to" when you get this figured out? :doh:
yep :)

As far as interfacing a Mercury motor with a Simrad Go and hooking up the fuel tank sender anyways :P

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:35 pm
by BB Sig
narfi wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:32 pm
BB Sig wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:27 pm Can you do a "how to" when you get this figured out? :doh:
yep :)

As far as interfacing a Mercury motor with a Simrad Go and hooking up the fuel tank sender anyways :P
Apparently that's better than what you found! :lol:

Good luck! You're making great progress.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:04 pm
by narfi
Ok, here is the rough draft of my two 'how to' posts.
1. Hooking your fuel tank level sender into your Mercury SmartCraft network.
2. Hooking your SmartCraft network into a Simrad Go for engine data and trolling controls from the touch screen.

SmartCraft is Mercury's propitiatory network for getting all of the engine information to their gauges.
Since I am using the Simrad Go and not any Mercury gauges, I probably could have used a NMEA adaptor for fuel level, but I don't know, and it seems cleaner to have everything go through the Mercury so that if I or someone wished to change the gauges or gps later, it would be less complicated.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Hooking your fuel tank level sender into your Mercury SmartCraft network.
(I did this on a Mercury FourStroke 60 hp EFI - I don't know enough to tell you the differences for years or models but if you are similar to this it should work for you)

Mercury sells a tank level/paddelwheel sensor harness. This is what I purchased and installed.
There is a 6 pin plug buried in the wires on the front left corner of the engine that the harness hooks up to.
20190702_204142.jpg
Run the pink 'Fuel Tank 1' wire to your tank sensor and hook it up to the red wire.
The black wire from the sensor needs to be grounded to the ships battery however you choose to do that. (If you have a close ground use that, or run a wire back to the battery)
20190702_204207.jpg
The Mercury harness is about 20ft long with two tank level wires each inside a 1/2 inch plastic sheath. The paddlewheel connector is about 4-5ft from the engine end of the harness.
This is a big mess of harness for just 1 fuel tank level sensor......
20190702_204326.jpg
I only used one single wire from the harness, and will still keep the harness because it is the 'right' way to do it. But it seems stupid to me. If it wasn't a brand new motor and boat, I would probably have just spliced into the pink wire at the connector in the engine instead of using the big ugly harness they sold me.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


2. Hooking your SmartCraft network into a Simrad Go for engine data and trolling controls from the touch screen.

Mercury and Simrad have some sort of partnership where their display and engines are supposed to work well with each other. However.... Mercury uses their proprietary SmartCraft network and Simrad uses the universal standard NMEA 2000 network. Together they sell a translator box to go between the two networks called the VesselView Link kit. This is what I purchased to get the engine data to the display.

My problem was that the VesselView Link assumes the existance of both a SmartCraft and NMEA 2000 networks in place. In hindsight this seems obvious, but in my planning I didn't see it, I just wanted to hook the engine up to the screen.

I am not an IT guy, but according to google,
A data network is a system that transfers data between network access points (nodes) through data switching, system control and interconnection transmission lines.
First Setting up the SmartCraft network side.
There is a SmartCraft plug at the engine, I also have a SmartCraft plug comming out of my Remote Control, (It came forward in the remote control harness).
All the SmartCraft plugs are the same gender, so you cant plug one harness into the next, you need a Junction box (the Tech called it a 'J Box') which is just a spliter so you can hook multiple SmartCraft harnesses into each other.
I am not sure why, but you are supposed to have a resistor at each end of the SmartCraft network lines (the NMEA ones as well but more on that later). The Tech sent me 2 different resistors, one is a plug that fits into one of the SmartCraft slots on the J Box, the other is a smaller plug that can be plugged into some remote control harnesses if they have the plug to free up a slot on the J Box. (My remote did not have that connector though)

With the SmartCraft J Box and resistor plug in place you are free to start plugging in your SmartCraft gauges and devices.
I only have the VessleView Link, so I plugged the harness in that goes between the Jbox and VessleView box.

Second, Setting up the NMEA network side.
Here is an overview of an NMEA network, https://www.actisense.com/wp-content/up ... etwork.pdf

NMEA seems to be a great standard, the plugs are small and easy to use, the cables are about the size of a coax cable, and the backbone concept is very simple and easy to work with.

Basicly an NMEA 2000 network needs a Resistor at each end and a power supply into one of its 'T's.
An NMEA 2000 starter kit supplies all of this so was easy to setup.
My final 'Backbone' consisted of, Resistor - T - T - T - Resistor
Each T went to, Power Supply, VessleView Link, and the Simrad Go display.

Here is a picture of the setup, and then the same picture with notes scribbled on what each component is.
20190702_204442.jpg
20190702_205205.jpg
I didnt power anything up, but all the connectors fit and make sense now, I will update later when I have verified it all works. (probably after paint and final install)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:16 pm
by Jeff
Nice work Narfi!!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:13 pm
by thb
Narfi,

Nice explanation on the nmea 2000 hookup to your mercury. My tohatsu system is a little different as the engine nmea 2000 cable just plugs into the backbone as does the garmin gps/depth sounder. You almost need to be a EE to figure some of this stuff out.

Nice work and looking forward to your launch.

Regards
Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:13 pm
by thb
Narfi,

Nice explanation on the nmea 2000 hookup to your mercury. My tohatsu system is a little different as the engine nmea 2000 cable just plugs into the backbone as does the garmin gps/depth sounder. You almost need to be a EE to figure some of this stuff out.

Nice work and looking forward to your launch.

Regards
Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:32 pm
by narfi
thb wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:13 pm Narfi,

Nice explanation on the nmea 2000 hookup to your mercury. My tohatsu system is a little different as the engine nmea 2000 cable just plugs into the backbone as does the garmin gps/depth sounder. You almost need to be a EE to figure some of this stuff out.

Nice work and looking forward to your launch.

Regards
Tom
It probably wouldn't have tipped the scales, but knowing there were engines that used the 'standard' instead of proprietary networks would have weighed in on my choice.
IMO its kind of stupid having 2"+ plugs doing the same thing a 1/2" plug can do AND play nicely with everything else when you are trying to route and setup cables.
The NMEA standard is nice not just for its simplicity and that it is in fact a 'standard' but because the cables are small and easy to route through small holes.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:52 pm
by BB Sig
Great write up and lots of good information!

Thanks for the honest statement! I'll be staying away from Mercury's motors. :lol:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:55 pm
by narfi
BB Sig wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:52 pm I'll be staying away from Mercury's motors. :lol:
Well to be fair, it would be no different than buying an apple product/iphone.
You just have to commit to their ecosystem and not care about the proprietary choice not to work well with others.

I am no expert, but I think it depends a lot on what you want and how you plan to go about it.

Unless you plan to tie into a gps screen, or some other NMEA device, there is nothing wrong with the SmartCraft network.
If you are going to use all Mercury gauges it would work great.
If you are going to have the dealer install everything for you, they can set it up however you want and you would never know or need to care what cables etc... were needed.
If you were going to use a tiller only with no gauges or anything else hooked up to the motor, then it wouldn't matter.

But for me, where I am doing the install myself, my need is so simple that it should be simple, but more complex than just standing at the tiller with no interface at all. That's where the problem comes in I think :P

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:10 am
by Fuzz
There is a lot to be said for simple tiller boats :wink:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:14 am
by silentneko
Good job figuring all that out. I'm not an apple or merc fan for this reason, lol. I'm going with a 60hp zuke and I believe is just uses the universal nmea2k backbone, but I'm not even sure if I'll set it up.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:36 pm
by narfi
I'm dead.....
20190705_174044.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:27 am
by OrangeQuest
silentneko wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:14 am Good job figuring all that out. I'm not an apple or merc fan for this reason, lol. I'm going with a 60hp zuke and I believe is just uses the universal nmea2k backbone, but I'm not even sure if I'll set it up.
I have found a small OEM tach that uses three lights for temp, oil and rev limiter. Speed will come from the GPS. For once I was thinking of keeping it simple!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:38 am
by silentneko
narfi wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:36 pm I'm dead.....

20190705_174044.jpg
Because you have duct tape holding up your shelter, or because it's cold? Lol.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:40 am
by Jaysen
silentneko wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:38 am
narfi wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:36 pm I'm dead.....

20190705_174044.jpg
Because you have duct tape holding up your shelter, or because it's cold? Lol.
i think it’s the 3 digit “inside” temp that bothers him...

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:44 am
by narfi
silentneko wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:38 am
narfi wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:36 pm I'm dead.....

20190705_174044.jpg
Because you have duct tape holding up your shelter, or because it's cold? Lol.
Duct tape is just to cover the bolts to prevent chaffing on the skin.

The 209f is not something I consider "cold"

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:18 pm
by Jaysen
narfi wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:44 am
silentneko wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:38 am
narfi wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:36 pm I'm dead.....

20190705_174044.jpg
Because you have duct tape holding up your shelter, or because it's cold? Lol.

Duct tape is just to cover the bolts to prevent chaffing on the skin.

The 209f is not something I consider "cold"
Maybe I’m slow, but isn’t it 20.9f outside and 1—f inside?

Looking at the lower right, you may want to check your battery 😏

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:34 pm
by narfi
Well. The thermometer only has 2 didgets and the decimal, so anything over 100 is pushed over to show the whole number without decimals.

The outside sensor was mounted beneath Landons clubhouse porch in the shade, it's not transmitting anymore and I dont even know if it's still there.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:40 am
by Netpackrat
So, 121F in your work space? Eff that.

Here in Anchorage, the following can no longer be purchased... Fans, air conditioning units, window screen frame material, and bags of ICE.

Edit to add; of course a lot of you are accustomed to much higher temps (and humidity) than what we are getting up here. But besides the fact that we are not used to it, consider the angle of the sun at these latitudes. It's much more difficult to avoid direct sunlight, especially if you are outside. A house like mine with a big southern exposure is normally a good thing here, but not so much right now. The basement has been the place to hide out; it is nice down there.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:56 am
by narfi
Not spending much time at a go in the tent but still making a little progress each day.

My loose spaghetti under the gunnels are starting to look a little tidier.
20190706_231230.jpg
20190706_231336.jpg
Still some tidying to do and secure the fuel line separately from the wires. The sheathing around all the splices I used is heat shrink so I borrowed a heat gun from work to shrink them all down. Couldnt bring myself to plug it in though, maybe on a cool morning or when I decide to just suck it up and do it.

Forgot the wire for the pole light at the back so I'll have to run it outside the bundle and secure it to it along the way.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:52 am
by narfi
Yesterday I marked locations for all the cup holders, rod holders, gas cap, and tie off cleats on the gunwale decks and drilled a small pilot hole so I could see on the bottom side.

Today I clamped the decks in place and ran a sharpie around the underside to know where the edges of each bay are, then cut 3/8" doublers for each of those spots and glued them down with thickened epoxy.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:38 am
by Jeff
Very well done Narfi!!! Very clean work!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:21 pm
by narfi
Jeff wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:38 am Very well done Narfi!!! Very clean work!!! Jeff
Well, not really.....
There wasnt much point in me painting the underside of the gunwale decks if I was going to glue all the reinforcement plates on them.

Its up where no one can see and light reflection doesnt benefit anything...... I will probably just epoxy coat all the reinforcements once I have them drilled out and leave it like that. Waste of time and paint but maybe a lesson learned.

Here is where I am now (decks are swapped left/right and upside down for gluing reinforcements)
20190710_081703.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:20 am
by narfi
Smoke is heavy from nearby wildfires.
20190710_202630.jpg
Started drilling the cupholder holes. Screwed up and started a big hole where a smaller rod holder should go but my battery died before i was through the first layer of plywood. So i filled the groove with thickened epoxy and all should be ok.

Drilled partway into each side of the sonar transducer mounting bracket and potted the bolts with heads buried in thickened epoxy.

20190710_220146.jpg
Holesaw set i borrowed from work is missing the right size for the rod holders so I need to figure that out and the fuel fill cap with vent will need a template made or perhaps freehand route out the mounting hole for it.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:34 am
by narfi
Glued down the left gunwale deck and the bow compartment top.

Been looking at and thinking about the consoles. Thinking about the benefit of having them bolt on vs tabbed in. I think I could pretty easily reinforce the four corners on the tops of the base boxes to bolt them down to.

Bolt on would make accessing the fuel tank attachments easier. Bolt on would make accessing and rigging the control column and wiring and switches easier.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:10 am
by DAVE LUDICK
My "tuppence worth" bolt it down. I did on my GV15 and happy with the outcome. Looks like a great place to fish there. I often wonder how you handle the huge contrast in seasons there. I fret over a Winter that lasts 3 months. I like your build, and attention to detail.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:45 am
by Jeff
Narfi, how bad are the wildfires up there? We always hear about California but not Alaska. Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:35 pm
by Fuzz
Don't know about Narfi but around here it has been smoky for the past 3 weeks. Fire has burnt over 100k acres and still going. Only road out of here has been closed off and on. Normal hot summer stuff and about done now.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:44 pm
by Netpackrat
Jeff wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:45 am Narfi, how bad are the wildfires up there? We always hear about California but not Alaska. Jeff
Most summers there are wildfires somewhere up here; it isn't usually a huge problem unless they get into a populated area. The year my brother and I bought our remote cabin, a big wildfre got started within 15-20 miles, but fortunately on the other side of a big river and there wasn't much man made on the side with the fire. So they pretty much let it burn except for in one place where it was threatening to jump the river, where they beat the fire back with air dropped water from helicopters.

The problem with California is that the fires are part of the natural cycle of the forest and they need to occur once in a while. But with the high population there, the forest isn't allowed to burn, so the flammable underbrush continues to build to a point where, once a fire starts, it can't really be controlled.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:47 pm
by narfi
Not as many fires near me as Fuzz has. We had 5 minute showers off and on the last few days which had helped some, but this morning the air was smoggy again from the fire some 50miles from here. No where near as bad as it was last week though, the way the wind was going directed the smoke right into our hanger and up into my office, I ended up going home and getting one of my good masks to wear at my desk for an hour or so till the wind changed enough it wasn't so bad.

We had a little rolling thunder and lightning a few nights ago around midnight, Landon was a bit concerned about it. I don't think he has ever heard more than a single thunder 'crack' before. It is that rare we get lightning here.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:17 pm
by Jeff
Thanks guys, always learning!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:05 am
by Fuzz
I have always lived right on the coast. Very rare for lightning here, they get it a lot more inland. I have heard thunder here but in 56 years living here I have yet to see my first lightning bolt.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:37 am
by narfi
Glued down the transom compartment lids tonight.

A bite each day gets me closer :)

Next up is sanding and shaping and perhaps a little more filling in preparation for taping down all the tops and gunwale decks.

Figuring out how I am going to route over all 3 corners when none of them are 90 degrees

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:08 am
by thb
Just sand them down to the approximate same shape. It will never be noticed at the end of the day. What weight glass cloth are you going to use on the gunnels?

Regards
Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:17 pm
by narfi
"approximate shape"is ok in small areas, but not full runs the length of the boat imo. I want it uniform.
Either 6oz or 12oz tape, probably 12 since thats what I have used everywhere else on the boat even though it is a bit of overkill.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:48 am
by thb
Narfi,

I misinterpreted what all 3 corners you were talking about. I thought the corners were where the transom meets the gunnels and then the bow. If I were to try running a router with a round over bit and no bearing surface to guide the roller it would look like hell. You need an oversized bearing mounted on your round over bit so it can contact the rub rail along the entire length

Just me maybe but I can choose my type of sander and knock those corners down on the gunnels way easier and neater.

Good luck figuring something out.

regards
Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:49 am
by narfi
Got a couple hours in today.
Cleaned up a bit.
Cut the hatch lids for the bow and transom compartments.
Started sanding on the left gunwale, just cleaning up the spilled out glue mostly on the outside, still need to do it on the inner wall.
20190720_220857.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:41 am
by Aripeka Angler
That looks really nice!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:31 am
by narfi
Got time in the tent again tonight.
Sanded the rest of the top panels of the gunwales flush with the side panels. Then took a box knife and opened up any air pockets and blew them out, there were a few 1/8" x 3" but most were 1/8"x1/8" so pretty small really considering the size of the gap I filled.
Ran along all the openings with some thickened epoxy.
Tomorow I hope to sand that all down quickly and start routing the edges.
20190725_001715.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:41 am
by Bogieman
8)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:05 am
by Capt UB
She is looking so nice. Have you thought about color of deck and hull paint yet?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:55 am
by Jeff
Narfi, Very nice job!!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:18 am
by narfi
Capt UB wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:05 am She is looking so nice. Have you thought about color of deck and hull paint yet?
White inside (same white as Landons canoe) and dark blue hull

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:45 pm
by narfi
narfi wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:18 am
Capt UB wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:05 am She is looking so nice. Have you thought about color of deck and hull paint yet?
White inside (same white as Landons canoe) and dark blue hull
It is AwlGrip,
Off White Revisited
Navy Blue/Bristol Blue

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:57 pm
by Capt UB
narfi wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:45 pm
narfi wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:18 am
Capt UB wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:05 am She is looking so nice. Have you thought about color of deck and hull paint yet?
White inside (same white as Landons canoe) and dark blue hull
It is AwlGrip,
Off White Revisited
Navy Blue/Bristol Blue
That will be nice.
Roll and tip or spray?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:58 pm
by narfi
Capt UB wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:57 pm
That will be nice.
Roll and tip or spray?
Spray with HVLP gun.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:32 am
by narfi
Tested 1/2" radius on the outside upper corner and even without cleaning up my start/stop points I'm really happy with how its looking.
20190725_211254.jpg
20190725_212954.jpg
I need something different for the inside corner though :(
A 70° 1/2" radius roundover bit with a tapered bearing.....

Does such a thing exist? If so where do I find it and what is it called????

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:11 am
by OrangeQuest
Really looking good!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:17 am
by narfi
So after sleeping on it I figured out how to round over the 70° angle with my router.

I had a spare 1/2" radius roundover bit I had destroyed the bearing on so I sacrificed it for the cause.
I marked 70° on both the cutting blades and transferred those marks to the body of the bit. Chucked it up in the lathe and freehand with a cutting wheel on a die-grinder cut off the bearing shaft and the tip of the blades up to my marks.
It pretty much chewed up an entire cutting wheel but ended up working ok.

I cut a 20° wedge on the table saw and screwed it to the portable fence/jig attachment for the router.

It worked almost perfectly. I didnt have the fence spaced right first and dug in too deep initially for about an inch so have it filled with thickened epoxy to sand out tomorow. The sharpest radius on the inwall is about where the front deck starts so with the 6-8ish inch fence it didnt cut as deep as I needed but that was easy to sand to match with a foam sanding board.
20190726_200919.jpg
20190726_200924.jpg
20190726_200954.jpg
Having both top edges rounded makes it look much nicer imo. The rounded areas where the gunwales transition to the slightly higher transom compartments turned out good as well.

I went around and filled a couple of voids and built up where I had gouged in with the router and filled under the bow point of the rubrail where the two sides didnt quite meet perfectly.

I should have finished the bottom of the rubrail while it was upside down, but I dont think I will need to sand too much before it's good enough to route the bottom corner, it looks like there will be room for the bearing to fit so it should work well. The 4 layers make it wide enough, I think with just 3 there wouldn't have been room for the bearing.

20190726_214514.jpg
20190726_214527.jpg

20190726_211702.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:51 am
by cape man
Smart...very smart. Necessity is the mother of invention.

Have never seen that color on a mercury...custom order?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:12 am
by Browndog
Looking really good. Amazing how much work it is and the time involved to figure everything out and get all the finishing details on the interior just right, especially in light of how fast the hull goes together.

Keep up the good work!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:17 pm
by narfi
cape man wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:51 am Smart...very smart. Necessity is the mother of invention.

Have never seen that color on a mercury...custom order?
Thanks. :)

The custom color is okoume dusting over a black base....

I need to pull it off and put back in the crate but need a couple guys to help me.

My trailer is half built so been procrastinating pulling the motor because we want to test the axel location for balance.... I'm about same weight as the motor so I could hang off the back as a substitute I suppose.... :p

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:19 pm
by narfi
Browndog wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:12 am Looking really good. Amazing how much work it is and the time involved to figure everything out and get all the finishing details on the interior just right, especially in light of how fast the hull goes together.

Keep up the good work!
Thanks :)

Yes. Each little detail takes so much time. I was getting frustrated with how much time. I wanted it in the water but dont want to sacrifice a quality finish for all the time I've put in so far.

I'm feeling good now though, it will be done when it gets done and It will be worth the time and wait.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:30 pm
by narfi
I forgot to mention.
The DMV called me yesterday and asked how long my boat was. Evidently I had left that off my application.

He said other than that it was all good so he would mail me the registration.

State rules here are you can use your boat up to 90 days after sending in your application if you keep a copy. But it's nice to know the real thing is on its way.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:34 am
by narfi
Spent a couple hours sanding the underside of the rubrails..... I really wish I had given that area more attention before I flipped it........

Got the glue squirted out between layers sanded down and the entire underside relatively smooth other than the inevitable differences in layer height.....

Mixed up some fairly thick fairing compound and layed it up under the rubrails and used tongue depressors to scrape a clean line as well as radius the corner at the same time. It's not perfect, but I should be able to sand this down more easily with a long board smooth enough to run the router bearing against.
20190727_201825.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:31 pm
by Aripeka Angler
That’s some ingenious router work Narfi! 8) The finished product looks outstanding! If you ever need a wintertime warm weather job, give me a shout.
FWIW, we use a bit in our shop that might do the same thing (if you ever have the need again)...
59D9F37C-9FDC-4EBB-9CF8-CBBD6F424BDD.jpeg
Cut my dang finger unwrapping the thing. :lol:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:45 pm
by narfi
Aripeka Angler wrote: Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:31 pm That’s some ingenious router work Narfi! 8) The finished product looks outstanding! If you ever need a wintertime warm weather job, give me a shout.
FWIW, we use a bit in our shop that might do the same thing (if you ever have the need again)...
Thanks... Sometimes I wonder if i just invent problems to solve, but I was pretty happy with how this one turned out.
As fast as I make progress, you probably wouldn't want to give more than $4-5 an hour o.0

What is the name of that router bit? It looks exactly like what I had imagined in my mind, but couldn't find it through a little time googling.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:21 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Google “Integral bowl sink router bit”. They come in different angles, we just pick something close and feather out the cut with a RO.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:12 am
by narfi
Aripeka Angler wrote: Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:21 pm Google “Integral bowl sink router bit”. They come in different angles, we just pick something close and feather out the cut with a RO.
Wow thanks! Now I know for next time.

Tonight I sanded under the rubrails and routed the lower corner over. First pass I used the 1/4 round with the bearing and standard guide, but it's the same 70° corner as the inside top so it didnt do much rounding..... I trimmed down my wedge guide and used my modified bit to much better success. (Plus the fence made for a fairer corner considering I had a few voids the bearing wanted to fall into.)


The right rail was almost perfect, I think I could glass it as is, but the left rail still had lots of low spots that didnt get filled with my last pass. Thinking back that is the side I had against wall in the dining room where i built the hull. I had done a preliminary fill then but think I just didnt do as good a job crouched against the wall where I couldnt see.

Filled one more pass, I think after sanding it I can lay the tapes over all the corners. I have to remind myself it doesnt have to be perfect... I'll be glassing then fairing, so it just needs to have the right shape and be smooth enough for the tape to lay smooth without voids.


Right side, I just spot filled the couple of low spots.
20190730_210616.jpg
The left side lots of voids I filled the entire rail again.
20190730_210522.jpg
I took this picture to show the bead of filler that rolls off when running a tongue depressor along a corner and the next picture shows it scraped off, but the pictures dont show it very well.
20190730_213336.jpg
20190730_214148.jpg
Here is where they meet at the front, I think it's starting to look decent.
20190730_210745.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:46 am
by OrangeQuest
Looking way past decent! I would go with looking fantastic! :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:24 am
by Jeff
Narfi, I agree with OQ, really well done!!!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:53 am
by Coach
ok newbie question. why fill the bottom of the rub rail with fillet? are you glassing from the rail to the hull?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:25 pm
by narfi
Coach wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:53 am ok newbie question. why fill the bottom of the rub rail with fillet? are you glassing from the rail to the hull?
Well I am no pro.... just learning as I go :P
Two reasons....
1. I will glass tape the gunwale top down, the inner top corner will be one layer of tape, the outer top corner wrapped around the rubrail to the hull will be the other layer of tape.
2. I really like the rounded look over sharp corners and think they are less prone to nicks and dings over time.

I am basicly going for the same rubrail look as I did on Landons canoe, (obviously dimensions are a little different)

Image

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:26 pm
by Larry B
Gotta love that RED :D

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:09 am
by narfi
Larry B wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:26 pm Gotta love that RED :D
I am super happy with the color and finish on the canoe, my son's name, his favorite color and his favorite song (Radioactive) all represented.

The fs17 will be blue and I am leaning away from any stincles for it, though I may do the big dipper and north star (alaskas state flag)

Tonight I sanded the last of my filling touch ups on the gunwale and rubrail, then layed down the glass tape.

The inside corner was easy as I expected, but was surprised at how well the outside corners layed down, I expected to be fighting it a lot, but even going over the 3 corners it layed down very well. I am happy with it.
20190801_000042.jpg
20190801_000146.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:41 am
by OrangeQuest
Really does look good. What weight tape did you use?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:45 am
by narfi
OrangeQuest wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:41 am Really does look good. What weight tape did you use?
12oz probably over kill, but I doubt I'll ever regret it....

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:50 am
by OrangeQuest
I can see why you were expecting a little fight with the tape, with 3 corners it had to flex around, it laid down beautifully. The fillet under the rub rail really gives it a clean look too.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:31 am
by Coach
Looks great!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:01 am
by fallguy1000
What are the gunnel holes?

I considered a wood rubrail for the Skoota. I like the hardness and protection factor you'd get.

But my wife will like the vinyl and stainless look.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:57 pm
by narfi
fallguy1000 wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:01 am What are the gunnel holes?
Cup holders, rod holders, fuel cap, and a cleat at each end.

The gunwale deck is 3/8 but I backed all the holes with another layer of 3/8, so it is reinforced to 3/4" around each hole.
The vertical inner wall of the gunwale is 1/4"

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:09 pm
by Bogieman
Very nice!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:58 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Your rubrail wrap is very nice. That's not easy to do correctly, nice work.
I'm a big fan of 12 ounce tape, great choice...

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:44 pm
by narfi
I cut out the reinforcement blocks for mounting the seats under the top panels of the rounded seat boxes and glued them down and coated in epoxy.
20190803_173141.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:28 am
by cape man
That should do the job.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:58 am
by narfi
Cut and glued attach points on top of the box panels for attaching the consoles to.
20190806_214655.jpg
Rereading the plans I discovered a mistake I made last year......
I only used one layer of 12oz tape on each side of the stringers when tabbing them in. The plans call for 2 layers each side.

It's a real sinking feeling to find I messed up like that after trying to do everything to plans or stronger.......

I have a question in to Jacques in the questions section to find out what I need to do now, even though it's kind of too late to do much.... hopefully he says it is ok, but guess we will find out.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:56 am
by GuyP
I’ll be looking at my FS19 plan closely. Very timely, I’ll be flipping in the next few weeks. Hoping for a good conclusion from Jacques.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:10 am
by cape man
My OD18 just called for gluing the stringers in, and based on Cracker Larry's advice I taped them with 12oz on each side. You will be fine. I went back to page 44 and your tape job was spot on. Does the plan call for over lapping tape? Weird if it does and the OD calls for no tape.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:30 pm
by narfi
Well good news from Jacques, and a compliment of sorts even after I screwed up so badly.
jacquesmm wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:53 am Your workmanship is above standard and that saves us in this case.
Hopefully someone can learn from my mistake and posting it publicly here and they make sure to double and tripple read their plans at each step and make sure to make the boat as strong as Jacques intended.

I read an interesting set of articles yesterday by someone who had been surveying boats yesterday, the article really demonstrates how good Jacques plans are and what happens when shortcuts are made or changes made without proper thought to the consequences.

https://www.yachtsurvey.com/HullFailPart1.htm

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:18 pm
by OrangeQuest
You got really good news! And you know you built her well to boot!!

I misread my plans and it called for 6oz tape on my frames and stringers but used 12 oz. opps!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:01 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Very happy that the situation worked out!
I don’t post FS17 specific technical stuff on your thread mostly because I’ve never built one.
That said, I read your thread almost every day and was confident you built her strong.
My apologies if I offended you or anyone else with my blunt post on the other thread!
The intent was only to help clear up any confusion about how you built your boat.
I sure didn’t want to see you chopping it up!
Build on, good luck finishing your boat!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:08 pm
by narfi
Its all good :) Nothing to apologize for to me anyways, I love the feedback from everyone and the interaction I have with you guys here.
I am super happy, and my wife is super happy, I think I have a renewed energy now going forward. Had been dragging my feet a few days not wanting to do anything I would immediately have to cut open.

It is human nature to be embarrassed by mistakes like this, but hopefully by sharing my mistakes here it will help someone else from making the same ones.

Will see how long the energy lasts :P still working long summer hours at work, but would be fun If I can still get it in the water this year.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:23 pm
by fallguy1000
Yup. Build on.

Mertens gave you a great explanation about how the stringers might fail slowly overtime under more adverse conditions.

Get that boy painting!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:25 am
by narfi
Glued the box lids down.
20190808_220048.jpg
There were a few brown thickened epoxy drips inside the boxes, I sanded them down and will need to reach in and touch up with paint at some time...... oops

I cut plastic and laid inside before gluing the lids down so hopefully no ugly drips this time. Only really matters where I have already painted and will be seen from the access holes.

Still need good filets for the tops to gunwale sides but ran out of thickened epoxy on that batch so will do it when I next need to glue something or mix a small batch or whatever seems convenient.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:42 am
by fallguy1000
Best way to prevent the ugly drips is mask with plastic, but it is a pita.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:03 am
by Jeff
Glad to see you back building Narfi!!!! Have a nice summer weekend up there in Alaska!!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:09 am
by Jaysen
Man... You've made the a couple of significant "use cases" obvious that I hope BBC can find a way to highlight for future builders:
1. Documenting EXCESSIVELY on the forum will save your bacon when things go sideways
2. When things go sideways, JM and BBC are here to ensure your bacon is clean before it goes back in the skillet
3. If you properly cure, smoke and slice your bacon then JM and BBC can help you clean up real well
4. The forum is a great resource as we've all dropped our own bacon a couple times

Glad it worked out so well for you. You've put a lot of solid thought and planning in and it paid off. Now GET IT DONE!

:)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:12 am
by BB Sig
Jaysen wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:09 am Man... You've made the a couple of significant "use cases" obvious that I hope BBC can find a way to highlight for future builders:
1. Documenting EXCESSIVELY on the forum will save your bacon when things go sideways
2. When things go sideways, JM and BBC are here to ensure your bacon is clean before it goes back in the skillet
3. If you properly cure, smoke and slice your bacon then JM and BBC can help you clean up real well
4. The forum is a great resource as we've all dropped our own bacon a couple times

Glad it worked out so well for you. You've put a lot of solid thought and planning in and it paid off. Now GET IT DONE!

:)
Why am I suddenly craving bacon after reading this post?

Great news! This forum and BBC are awesome! :D

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:31 am
by jacquesmm
The very detailed documentation was a big help in replying to the question about the missing tape layer. Many of my designs take into account a less than perfect fiberglass work and to see good workmanship reassures me about the strength of the boat. Good clean fiberglass work is stronger than a sloppy job.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:28 pm
by narfi
Jaysen wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:09 am.......



bacon

................


bacon


.............


bacon



..........


bacon


...........
I have no problem eating bacon after dropping it, but have to fight our Staffordshire Terrier for it, and he is faster and huge jaws.......

Besides my family my interests are aviation, boat building and gaming. Bacon crosses all those and none are complete without a good breakfast of bacon.
20190809_081120.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:41 pm
by Fuzz
Pretty sure if it hits the floor the pup is going to think it is his. Not so sure I would want to try and take it away from him :help:
On another note I am very happy for you about how the lamination problem turned out :D

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:50 am
by narfi
Got a Coleman minibike for Landon. Super simple and runs on a brigs and Stratton engine.
20190810_192631.jpg
20190810_190038.jpg
I sanded the lids I glued down flush with the side panels and then routed a 1/2" radius around them. Had to touch up the corners by hand where the router couldnt reach.
20190810_154900.jpg
Taped it all down and coated the bare wood.
20190810_225330.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:17 am
by OrangeQuest
Boat is looking really good Narfi!!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:09 pm
by narfi
OrangeQuest wrote: Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:17 am Boat is looking really good Narfi!!
Thanks! :)

Last night I taped down the remaining edges of the transom compartments and put 6oz woven on the first side of each of the hatches.
20190814_002845.jpg
20190814_002903.jpg
This morning I went out before work and ran a razor around the edges to cut off the excess cloth.
20190814_081309.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:00 pm
by Jeff
Great gift for Landon and boat is really looking great!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:37 pm
by GuyP
Looking good!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:29 pm
by Fuzz
Hey that’s pretty neat I did not know Mercury was making motors in grey :lol:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:14 am
by narfi
Fuzz wrote: Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:29 pm Hey that’s pretty neat I did not know Mercury was making motors in grey :lol:
Hehe... I think I'll put it back in its crate and cover it up this weekend.

Caught the throat bug going around the village so didnt spend much time in the tent tonight.

I did get the other sides of the hatches covered with 6oz as well as the bow deck(is that what its called?)
20190815_200301.jpg
20190815_200254.jpg
I am thinking I probably wont put any cloth around the transom hatch decks as there is only a couple inches left uncovered by the tapes. I will see how much wood I bare when sanding the edges down though and might still.....
20190815_201250.jpg
Still need to coat and "pretty up" the hatch supports.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:15 am
by OrangeQuest
Things are coming along nicely. About ready to start laying out the hatch hardware?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:49 am
by narfi
OrangeQuest wrote: Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:15 am Things are coming along nicely. About ready to start laying out the hatch hardware?
Yes getting there :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:13 pm
by fallguy1000
narfi wrote: Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:14 am
Fuzz wrote: Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:29 pm Hey that’s pretty neat I did not know Mercury was making motors in grey :lol:
Hehe... I think I'll put it back in its crate and cover it up this weekend.

Caught the throat bug going around the village so didnt spend much time in the tent tonight.

I did get the other sides of the hatches covered with 6oz as well as the bow deck(is that what its called?)

20190815_200301.jpg

20190815_200254.jpg

I am thinking I probably wont put any cloth around the transom hatch decks as there is only a couple inches left uncovered by the tapes. I will see how much wood I bare when sanding the edges down though and might still.....

20190815_201250.jpg

Still need to coat and "pretty up" the hatch supports.
Some crud going around here, I got it three weeks ago. My wife tolerated me kissing her about 10 days later (Christ!). The next day she was sick. Yikes!

Anyhow, it seems to be tapering, but very slowly. It was a bad bug.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:58 am
by Dan_Smullen
narfi wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:09 pm
TomW1 wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:40 pm
Narfi measure for the frames from the bow and mark that point, it should show whether the front or back of the notch. Then cut the notch. No need to measure from the transom. You are making double work for your self.

Tom
Sorry I am very bad at getting my point across in text.........

The plans show measurements for mounting the frames on the strong back. No issue there.

The stringers are shorter than the strong back. Since the transom is angled the back end is in front of the rear of the strong back, and since it is shorter than the strong back the front points are behind the front of thee strong back.
I was looking at the same issue the other day as I began to plan my C19 build. Ultimately, I gave up trying to translate the bulkhead spacing to the stringers without a firm starting point on the stringer. i.e. dimension to the first notch from the tip of the stringer or the same from the back. It's an array of notches with fixed spacing, but determining where the array lands along the length of the stringer will, I believe, require a full size layout from the transom.

My apologies for going back a ways, but I'm just getting into build threads old and new as I prepare to jump into mine.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:55 pm
by narfi
It was 18 months ago.... I'll have to go back and read the plans and try to remember....

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:02 pm
by narfi
Dan_Smullen wrote: Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:58 am determining where the array lands along the length of the stringer
I dont have plans to your boat, but based on mine.....

The large sheet shows dimensions for everything needed to cut out. On it you can see the station spacing. On mine its 36" for all but the transom to motorwell bulkhead which is 18"

Then in the instructions sheet there is a section about setting up your jig,
Proceed with mold B. That one rest on top of the strongbacks. Pay attention to the face that you
align, it is not the same for all molds. Here is how it is measured:
36” from the bow side of A to the bow side of B
36” from the bow side of B to the bow side of C
36” from the bow side of C to the stern side of D
36” from the stern side of D to the stern side of E
There is a good reason for that: we always use the smallest side to avoid bevels.
Again this may be different on yours but the idea should be the same.

The confusion arises because the transom, strongback at transom end and stringers are all angled (not square)

Your motorwell side panels should show the measurements for that angle. Dont worry about angle degrees, just the difference in length.

So from all of that you can make your marks on your stringers and make sure you cut the slots on the sides of the marks specified in the plans.

Then from your motorwell bulkhead sides set up against the strongback you can determine where the strongback Mark's go for attaching all the forms also making sure you place them on the right sides of the marks.

That's a lot of words so hopefully you can understand what I ment. (I think I almost understand :p )

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:46 pm
by Dan_Smullen
Indeed! The motor well side panel dimensions unlocked the secret of the layout. Thank for pointing me in the right direction!

What part of AK are you in? Late 90s/ 2000s i lived and worked in Seward and Valdez. Aluminum boats were all the rage back then, assume they are now too. Seems like it would be identical construction techniques, just different materials.

Good luck, back at it!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:44 pm
by The Chironex
Narfi! I just spent the past 3 says off and on reading through your thread and I am super impressed with your build! I hope my build looks half as good as yours! Cheers man, can’t wait to see this thing finished!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:17 pm
by narfi
The Chironex wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:44 pm Narfi! I just spent the past 3 says off and on reading through your thread and I am super impressed with your build! I hope my build looks half as good as yours! Cheers man, can’t wait to see this thing finished!
Thanks :)
I cant wait to see it done either. Been busy last week or two with work and family, but still hoping for a final push before fall/winter shuts me down.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:04 am
by narfi
Got a couple hours sanding in tonight. Got the binding thread sanded off and the tape edges sanded down on the tops of the gunwales and the outsides of the hull.
20190913_211524.jpg
Only found one void under the rubrail so I think I did pretty well.
20190913_211537.jpg
Need to do the same to the interior and boxes, then I'll be ready for the first good coating of fairing compound.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:46 pm
by narfi
Glued doublers where the side drains will go.
2x layers of 3/8" plus the 1/4" hull makes for an inch plus thick for the plug hole.
20190915_194138.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:02 am
by The Chironex
Glad to see you back in action! Looking great!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:10 am
by Jeff
Nice progress Narfi!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:01 pm
by narfi
Thanks guys, was a rough month for no progress. Wife was away for education conferences preparing for the school year so I was 'dad', then the entire village got a nasty bug that knocked most people down for 2 weeks, giving some pneumonia. Thankfully we didn't get the pneumonia side of it, but still had 0 energy for a few weeks. Wife and I are both pretty stubborn so we didn't miss any work like some did, but we were pretty much just going home and going to bed.

Fall hit hard a week or two ago, all the leaves turned and are falling, its cooler and damper and raining more. I really enjoy being back in the tent working on the boat, so will see how far I can get before it gets too cold. Maybe ill get lucky and we get another week of summer sometime next month right when I'm ready to paint :P

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:12 pm
by Jeff
Tough time Narfi!!! Glad you & your wife are better!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:48 am
by narfi
Drilled the drain holes with a 1" hole saw, pretty happy with the location and angle but forgot to take a picture.

On the outside of the hull the bottom of the drain holes are 8" above the chine. The plans call the draft at dwl 7" but then I remembered I have the 1.5" reverse chines so it all seems about right, but looks high because of that.

Still not sure what to expect for weight.... plans call the simple version 315lbs so I am guessing with what I've done maybe 500ish? Plus 250lb motor is 750, 19gal fuel is another 114lbs so ~865 with full fuel.

1465lbs displacement at dwl and 330lbs per inch.

That's 600lbs shy or just under 2inches clearance of the drain holes if its well balanced and empty with full fuel.

I coated the double and inside of the holes with epoxy and coated bare spots I had sanded through on the gunwales.

My trailer is mostly built and ready for fitting to the boat. Think I'll strap a couple of 2x4s across the gunwales with ratchet straps through my reinforced cupholder and rod holder holes. 6 guys should be able to pick up 750lbs coffin style and walk it onto the trailer. (I hope)

Once on and if the axel balance is ok (can adjust a little with bunk length but can move the axel if balance is way off) I'll finish with it on the trailer. Pull the engine off, clean it real well (can hose it off now with drain holes in place) and start fairing in earnest.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:20 am
by cape man
I would run straps under it and lift it from the shoulder if you walk it out. For my OD we just backed the trailer in to the door of the barn and winched it on with guys helping to relieve some of the weight from the sides as it went.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:27 pm
by narfi
Work pulled me in last weekend for an emergency trip so didnt get much done.
Today I finished sanding the edges of all the tapes down on the in walls and seat boxes, then applied fresh epoxy to a few spots I broke through to wood.

Strapped a 2x6 and a 2x8 across for coffin handles do next step is getting a bunch of muscle to move it to the trailer for me.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:15 am
by Eric1
Narfi your boat is looking great! :)
Sorry for the lack of encouragement, I'm just going through a bunch of stuff right now.
Love to you and the Family.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:44 pm
by narfi
Eric1 wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:15 am Love to you and the Family.
Same for you. I was happy to see you starting to get some of your steam back.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:12 am
by narfi
Break time entertainment for my coworkers was moving my boat onto the partially built trailer to test balance and fit.
20190930_101414.jpg
20190930_143324.jpg
Trailer seems balanced well, plenty of weight on the tongue but I can lift it ok myself. My honda moves it around the yard ok, will be interesting to see if its heavy enough to pull it out of the water or not.

I hosed it out inside and out and spent some time getting as much of the dust and grime off as possible. Swept and tidied the floor in the tent and parked it back inside.
20190930_193755.jpg
Need to clean the tables along the wall too...... they are getting out of control.

Next step on the boat is a light sanding everywhere to make sure there arent any shiny spots and then lay down the first real layer of fairing compound. Not sure if there will be good enough weather to do that still this year or not, but if we get a warm snap I'm ready. (Had a pretty hard frost earlier this week and been damp and cool since)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:18 am
by OrangeQuest
Love the profile picture of your boat, really looking good!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:29 am
by Jeff
Narfi, she is looking really good!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:05 am
by fallguy1000
Boat sure looks nice.

We are slated for snow Saturday. My wife wanted to go golfing and nearly cried when I told her to check the weather.

Best of luck.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:22 am
by Eric1
Brother that is a beautiful boat! I hope mine will look as good. :D

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:58 am
by narfi
fallguy1000 wrote: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:05 am Boat sure looks nice.

We are slated for snow Saturday. My wife wanted to go golfing and nearly cried when I told her to check the weather.

Best of luck.
Thanks.
We had snow Sunday morning. Landon went out and played for an hour before church and some of his friends were convinced they were taking their snow machine to church they were so excited........ was only a 1/4" and melted by noon buy the kids sure had fun.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:03 am
by narfi
Eric1 wrote: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:22 am Brother that is a beautiful boat! I hope mine will look as good. :D
You are more meticulous than me..... yours will turn out better :)

After several days the boat still hadn't dried out from rinsing it off so I am probably done for the year.

The trailer is just tacked together right now so I dont want to be driving around a bunch, but if my buddy has time we plan to dump the boat in the water (and I can see how it balances there), and finish welding up the trailer. Then I could potentially bring it into the hanger on weekends and apply fairing mix then back into my tent for weeknight sanding.... we will see. He is going out of town for work soon, so not sure when that will happen.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:19 am
by Eric1
narfi wrote: Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:03 am
Eric1 wrote: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:22 am Brother that is a beautiful boat! I hope mine will look as good. :D
You are more meticulous than me..... yours will turn out better :)

After several days the boat still hadn't dried out from rinsing it off so I am probably done for the year.

The trailer is just tacked together right now so I dont want to be driving around a bunch, but if my buddy has time we plan to dump the boat in the water (and I can see how it balances there), and finish welding up the trailer. Then I could potentially bring it into the hanger on weekends and apply fairing mix then back into my tent for weeknight sanding.... we will see. He is going out of town for work soon, so not sure when that will happen.
That sounds like a good plan.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:48 pm
by narfi
No boat progress to report, we had a huge dump of snow over thanksgiving then huge melts since.

Today I hit the 40lb lost mark!
October 5th I was 264lbs, today I am 224lbs. (40lbs in 10 weeks)
That might even be lighter than when I got married 14yrs ago o.0

Averaging roughly 1200 calories per day including a protein supplement in my coffee in the morning and lots of white meat(turkey and chicken breast). (and a bunch of daily vitamin supplements)
Lifting with dumbbells at home first thing when I wake up 5 mornings a week (skipping the last leg day since I walk so much)
https://www.muscleandstrength.com/worko ... ly-workout

Walking roughly 3 miles (45-50 minutes) before and after work 5 days a week.
No lifting but try to walk a bit more on Saturday, then Sundays off except for basketball with the high school kids for 2hrs which isn't really a 'rest' but is a lot more fun.

I think I was doing too much with my legs, they were really starting to hurt, woke up monday and it was 45degrees and the runways were icy, muddy and had rivers of water running down the sides..... I figured God was telling me to take the week off. So I skipped all walking and leg days lifting this week to give them a break, but with the caloric deficit still seem to be loosing lbs.

Tracking everything (diet and exercise) with Samsung Health on my phone and watch.

Have a bet with a coworker of similar size, first one to 200 gets $200. I think this is a good deal as we both end up winners and $200 is cheap for 4-6 months trainer.
As competitive as I am, I will probably be out the $200.... He started 5lbs lighter than me at the beginning and has held that lead, and he is 10yrs younger..... But I'll fight till the end :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:48 pm
by Jeff
Narfi, CONGRATULATIONS on the weight loss!!! You are doing extremely well and really fast!!! I hope you win the $200.00!!!!!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:11 pm
by OrangeQuest
Good deal on the weight loss program. Hope you get the $200.00 also!


You guys are getting a winter, we may see low 80's this weekend!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:54 pm
by narfi
Well I won the bet!
Co-worker was bitter and paid me the $200 in $1 gold coins in a small burlap bag with a draw string. Landon and I both thought it was pretty cool, and we have used it at the concession stand at sporting events (until school was shut down) ever since.

In October I was 264lbs, today I am 177, plateauing the last 2 weeks between 176 and 179, but still at a decent deficit so will start dropping again soon. Want to try and get down around 160ish as 164 will be the psychological mark of 100lbs lost.

The tent is starting to warm up in the afternoons, but there is still a pile of snow on both sides of it and it is very wet and damp and muddy inside, so I dont want to start doing any epoxy work until it heats up a bit more and the humidity in there is lower. Probably another 2-3 weeks I am guessing :/

With no cruising this spring, this boat is a family priority to get going so we can get out a bit and have fun.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:01 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Outstanding work sir! That is a heck of an accomplishment! Outstanding work might be the understatement of the year. :lol:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:45 pm
by cape man
Wow!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:22 pm
by fallguy1000
Congrats Narfi. A huge accomplishment.

Now get us some boat pics!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:30 am
by OrangeQuest
I am happy for you! Hopefully thing thaw out enough to get some boat work done soon! Don't you guys have wildlife around there you can snap pictures of for us city folk?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:35 am
by Jeff
Congrats Narfi, well done!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:39 pm
by narfi
Lots of wildlife here, but I spend most of my daylight hours inside..... hoping to change that some once the boat is finished.
When I do see wildlife I tend to enjoy it more than take pictures of it. Lots of moose come through here, fox, rabbits, spruce hens, saw a really cute owl perched on a snow machine the other day, I got like 4ft away from it, by the time i thought to pull my phone out to take a picture I had spooked it off. Lots of eagles here too, out on the lake you can see wolves in the winter. Bear, etc....

Have to come visit to see it and photograph for yourself :P

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:12 pm
by Browndog
Way To Go on the weight loss!

I know how hard it is. I’ve been on a diet and fitness program now for the the last 3 months myself. I’m down 35 lbs so far. You are an inspiration.

Well done.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:19 pm
by GuyP
Good to see you’re posting after a lull. Congrats on the more streamlined you. Gotta feel good. Anxious to see more boat pics.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri May 01, 2020 12:29 am
by narfi
Browndog wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:12 pm Way To Go on the weight loss!

I know how hard it is. I’ve been on a diet and fitness program now for the the last 3 months myself. I’m down 35 lbs so far. You are an inspiration.

Well done.
Nicely done!
What's your routine?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri May 01, 2020 2:15 am
by Fuzz
Damn son....................your boat just got 5mph faster :D

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri May 01, 2020 7:33 am
by Browndog
The DASH (Dietary Approach to Stop Hypertension) weight loss plan coupled with bike riding and weight machine circuit training is what I’ve been doing.

Pretty much cut out processed foods, sugary drinks, bread, and salt. Lots of fruits and vegetables, lean meats like fish, skinless chicken breasts.

I’ve reached a little bit of a plateau here lately, but at the same time my body measurements have changed as I’ve gotten stronger. Having to add holes to my belts. All of my pants are falling down. My pants legs seem to have gotten longer as my ass has gotten smaller. ;)

Will have to buy some new clothes soon.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri May 01, 2020 8:42 am
by OneWayTraffic
Browndog wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 7:33 am The DASH (Dietary Approach to Stop Hypertension) weight loss plan coupled with bike riding and weight machine circuit training is what I’ve been doing.

Pretty much cut out processed foods, sugary drinks, bread, and salt. Lots of fruits and vegetables, lean meats like fish, skinless chicken breasts.

I’ve reached a little bit of a plateau here lately, but at the same time my body measurements have changed as I’ve gotten stronger. Having to add holes to my belts. All of my pants are falling down. My pants legs seem to have gotten longer as my ass has gotten smaller. ;)

Will have to buy some new clothes soon.
Dropping processed foods, empty calories and exercise is good. A bit of fat doesn't hurt though. It tells the brain that you are full. Sugar does not.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri May 01, 2020 1:19 pm
by narfi
Fuzz wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 2:15 am Damn son....................your boat just got 5mph faster :D
Not just that, but my options for potential small aircraft builds has really opened up as well :P

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri May 01, 2020 1:32 pm
by Fuzz
And useful payload. That is huge in small aircraft.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri May 01, 2020 1:54 pm
by narfi
Browndog wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 7:33 am The DASH (Dietary Approach to Stop Hypertension) weight loss plan coupled with bike riding and weight machine circuit training is what I’ve been doing.

Pretty much cut out processed foods, sugary drinks, bread, and salt. Lots of fruits and vegetables, lean meats like fish, skinless chicken breasts.

I’ve reached a little bit of a plateau here lately, but at the same time my body measurements have changed as I’ve gotten stronger. Having to add holes to my belts. All of my pants are falling down. My pants legs seem to have gotten longer as my ass has gotten smaller. ;)

Will have to buy some new clothes soon.
OneWayTraffic wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 8:42 am
Dropping processed foods, empty calories and exercise is good. A bit of fat doesn't hurt though. It tells the brain that you are full. Sugar does not.
For most of the winter I was eating 1200 calories a day, lifting 45 minutes and hiking in the snow 2+ hours.

Now I am on a 1200-1800 diet depending more on feelings for the day, lifting 45 minutes a day, walking 30ish minutes (15 to and 15 from work) and 1-2hours of VR based cardio.

Typical day for me now,

Wake up at 5:30, quick browse of the phone 5-10 minutes to wake up.
Pee and weigh in for the day.
Drink 24oz water.
30-60 minutes of Beat Saber (though right now im doing the 30 day trial of Supernatural, which is similar but more fitness oriented)
Drink 24oz water.
Lift for 45 minutes while consuming another 24oz of water.
https://www.muscleandstrength.com/worko ... ly-workout
Drink another 24oz of water while making breakfast.
1 Fried Egg, 1/2 cup of refried beans both fried on a dry teflon pan. Topped with 50 calories of 0% greek yogurt and lots of Cholula hot sauce.
120 calories of vanilla/chocolate protine powder mixed in a couple oz of cold water, then used as 'creamer' in my morning big mug of coffee consumed with breakfast.
Walk to work.
While working I drink a 24oz mug of hot tea every 1-2 hours and have to pee at least that often.
10am break 230 calories of protine powder in my coffee.
Lunch varies, but usually one of two things.
1. 14oz chicken breast fried with 1/2 red onion and 3 baby bell peppers in Fanks hot sauce. Brought to work in a bag with another bag of 3cups of lettuce. Topped with 50 calories of 0% greek yogurt.
2. Can of campbells hearty soup, usually around 300 calories depending on flavor.
3pm. Nothing, or an apple, or Sabra Hummus single with either carrots or sliced peppers.
Walk home.
1 hour of BoxVR (the hardest workout of the day)
Dinner, depending on what the family wants, but usually chicken and vegetables of some sort. We use a lot of the 50 calorie spinach wraps which fill that 'bread craving' without being too bad for you.

Ive been plateaued for 3 weeks now, super frustrating, but like you said, body shape is changing. My belt will tuck into the center rear loop of my pants now if I cinch it down (probably a 1/2 notch till comfortably there).

As for 'feeling full' refried beans is what did the trick for both me and my wife. Adding those to breakfast made a night and day difference to our mindset and attitudes the rest of the day.

My go to extravagance is a bag of Cracker Jacks watching tv at night for 150 calories.
Since our cruise this spring got canceled, I stocked up our liquor supplies a bit more and been learning how to mix some drinks. All I have ever really done before is rum and coke or hot buttered rum. But trying to make some of the tastier sweeter stuff we would splurge on for the cruises. That doesn't mix well with dieting, but we are trying to be careful and only doing it once a week or so, or using diet sodas as the mixers, milk instead of cream, etc.... its not the same as being on the beach ordering a drink, but it is something.....

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri May 01, 2020 2:47 pm
by Jeff
Great stuff Narfi!!!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:35 am
by narfi
Last week I had some coworkers help me pull the motor off and this week i cleaned out the boat tent between honey-dos.

Today was first good day of being back working on the fs17.
I pulled all the control and electrical cables back into compartments so it will be easier to do the final push of fairing and sanding.

I started prototyping the consoles from cheap plywood, and taking stock of what still needs to be done.
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Bottom lip of consol needs to be higher for more knuckle clearance on the throttle. My knuckles clear but just barely, I'd rather a comfy space than risk bashing them.

Wheel needs to be moved to the right a bit more to center on the seat.

Need to figure out gauge and simrad go screen layout and windshield shape and angle. Clear or tinted?

Hatch for under front deck is a bit small I need yo make 9ne that fits tighter.
I need to find or make the covers for the front gunwale cubby holes. I thought I made some but can't find them.
I need to route out all the hinge mounting areas.
Need to install and adjust latches.

Should the top of the transom be square or rounded off?

I need to make the motorwell support tunnel along the top. I have the peuces cut out, just need to epoxt coat and install them.

The bow hatch lid is warped up instead of down...... it has glass cloth top and bottom, is there any way to warp it the other way or do I need to make a new one? Only thing I can think of is aloy of heat and press it the other way.... how much heat needed to soften the epoxy? Or is that not a functional idea?

It felt great to be making progress, and it feels like I may be closer than I thought to tge finisg line!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:23 am
by Jeff
I agree Narfi, nice progress!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:17 pm
by narfi
Still prototyping in my head, here is what I will try to layout tonight,

Cut the bottom of the face up higher to allow more knuckle clarence on the throttle, and cut the top down to make it shorter and easier to see over.
Wheel moved to the center.
Engine gauge to the left of the helm (thats what you call the wheel on a boat?) and switches to the right.
Simrad Go screen on the angled back panel above the face with a large glovebox on the right.
Will need to see how much space the back side of the different components need, but the size and position seems good to me with this. What do you guys with more experience think?
console 1.png
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:00 pm
by TomW1
Narfi, congrats, but Cambell's prepared soup? What a no, no. I lost 5 lbs. just getting rid of those. They are full of salt and calories and other things you don't need.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:24 pm
by Rover1
Hi Narfi
I love the layout of the boat. Do you have any top down shots. of the layout? Thinking of starting in the near future and need to consider as open a layout as possible.
Rover1

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:50 pm
by narfi
This isn't super open, but ill take some pictures for you and post them within the next hour or so.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:57 pm
by narfi
I couldn't find the mercury smart gauge in my supplies, searched the boat compartmwnts all of the tent and all of the house and couldn't find it.
Read back here,
https://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.ph ... 80#p452942

And see i decided I chose not to use it as it will display on the screen......
Am I getting old?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:00 pm
by fallguy1000
Why not build that console up a bit or change angles wheel down, etc., so the displays are clear of the wheel?
D3627CBE-C3FB-4F1F-BB1A-3E0D003D8C38.jpeg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:24 pm
by narfi
Rover1 wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:24 pm Hi Narfi
I love the layout of the boat. Do you have any top down shots. of the layout? Thinking of starting in the near future and need to consider as open a layout as possible.
Rover1
Here is a top down view from the front and back.
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Not super open, but with a sheet of plywood and a little perseverance I think I could park a honda 4wheeler across the front deck and seats

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:29 pm
by narfi
fallguy1000 wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:00 pm Why not build that console up a bit or change angles wheel down, etc., so the displays are clear of the wheel?D3627CBE-C3FB-4F1F-BB1A-3E0D003D8C38.jpeg
Like this?
Pictures show adjustable wheel all the way down, set half way up, set all the way up, and standing with it all yhe way up.

Camera is positioned so I can see the drawn screen over the top of the camera so have slightly better view than shown. Seated at approximate height of swivel and seat by scientific method of makita box to sit on.

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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:13 pm
by fallguy1000
Whew! Looks much better with the right perspective.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:51 am
by narfi
First prototype of the console done.
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Any thoughts or suggestions?

I like the layout and it seems to fit me well.

2 issues.
The throttle is too low while standing, but very comfortable sitting. I may decide to change that down the road and get one that mounts to the aide of the console.

The gap between the console and the gunwall..... im thinking I will build a small inverted ledge on the side of the console to overlap the top of tye gunwall 1/4" or so, but not sure if the asthetics are worth the time or not. Thoughts?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:38 am
by cape man
I would not worry about the gap, but a better cushion for the seat would be in order. 8)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:16 am
by fallguy1000
Stuff gonna fall in that gap and you ain't ever gonna get it out. One will be a Rapala with beads in and you'll hear it when you troll. Hehe

I am mounting the control head to the right of my steering wheel on a platform built on the angled console. Go back n look at the pic. It is kind of marked out

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:00 am
by narfi
cape man wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:38 am I would not worry about the gap, but a better cushion for the seat would be in order. 8)
I had hoped to build bucket seats like Peter did in his thread, but I want to finish faster now so ordered these a few days ago,
https://www.amazon.com/Wise-Classic-Str ... GCZB7GAHQB

Anyone know where I could find matching snap on cushions for the front seats? Just simple 12x18 (I need to verify measurements) rectangles of foam with coverings to match the rear seats.... One each side for the butts and one each side for the backs, so 4x total.

The nice thing about the seats and the consoles both, are that they are bolt on. I can make, modify, or change them down the road as many times as I like.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:06 am
by narfi
fallguy1000 wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:16 am Stuff gonna fall in that gap and you ain't ever gonna get it out. One will be a Rapala with beads in and you'll hear it when you troll. Hehe
Yeah.... as much as I want to save time, I think I am going to raise a lip up over the edge, Its just one of those things that will bug me if I dont. :/

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:27 pm
by Dougster
I'd want my throttle easy to hand when standing, as that's what I naturally do in any extra attention situations, like docking, rocks, stumps, etc.

Dougster

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:25 pm
by narfi
Dougster wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:27 pm I'd want my throttle easy to hand when standing, as that's what I naturally do in any extra attention situations, like docking, rocks, stumps, etc.

Dougster
Yeah, thats why I assumed I would change it. but maybe there is a way now with what I have.....
Any good examples of a built up box or tab to mount it on above the gunwale?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:00 pm
by cape man
Cash in one of those bit coins and get a binnacle for on top of the console.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:52 am
by narfi
Busy day today so didn't get much done on the boat. Was up at 4 so I could get 8hrs in at work before the charter plane came in at 1. Took us 4 hours to unload it and reload it with backhaul trash and restage everything that came in.

I did make it out to the tent for a few minutes though to work on an idea to kill two birds with one stone.
20200611_213928.jpg
It let's the console overlap the gunwale and removes the gap while also repositioning the throttle so i can reach it while standing or seating.

It is a bit too far forward so will try move it aft 6 or 8 inches and see how that feels.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:55 am
by cape man
Can you access the hub and the gear shift disengage button which allows you to give it throttle in neutral?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:49 am
by narfi
cape man wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:55 am Can you access the hub and the gear shift disengage button which allows you to give it throttle in neutral?
hehe, this is why I love this forum. An idiot like me who knows nothing about boats or their operation can build something to be proud of while you guys help prevent me from making stupid mistakes :)

I didn't even know that button was there....... Now that I know, it makes perfect sense, but it wasn't intuitive.
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My plan is to try placing it back 6-8 inches or so, I will make sure that the button is easily accessible when I do that as well.

Thanks!!!!!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:58 pm
by Rover1
Hi Narfi
Been going through thread and the boat looks great!
You mentioned in my thread (FS17 Again) that you had a New Tiller for a mercury in 40hp. Could you post a picture in my thread with its part number?
Really appreciated,
Rover1

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:13 am
by narfi
Yup, ill get that for you tomorow.

Been trying to get a cash out refinance to be able to build a heated shop and found out appraiser is comming this week. Ill be doing lots of little odds and ends cosmetic stuff around the place and cleaning up till he has been here so wont get much done on the boat ........... cant complain though, if all goes well it will mean some good changes for me and my "factory" :p

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:59 pm
by narfi
Rover1 wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:58 pm Hi Narfi
Been going through thread and the boat looks great!
You mentioned in my thread (FS17 Again) that you had a New Tiller for a mercury in 40hp. Could you post a picture in my thread with its part number?
Really appreciated,
Rover1
Done. Got it dusty for the first time, just for you :p

Set the throttle back enough to clear the neutral button and it feels good standing and sitting. Think I have played around enough, will start using expensive plywood next.

Think I will use 3/8" for the base and the faces stuff bolts to and 1/4" for everything else. Thoughts?
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:29 pm
by narfi
Chief engineer approves,
20200614_172954.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:44 am
by narfi
Cut out the peices for the console bases and gunwale ledges. Covered the area with clear packing tape (hard to see in the picture) and glued them all in place so I can start with the proper shaped base. The right side shelf extends back to support the throttle.
Also glued the support piece on the channel for the upper motorwell channel.
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8.45pm 72f in the tent, will see how its cured tomorow afternoon. May do a bunch of cleanup and a little sanding in preparation for first real fairing coat over the entire beast. Will see how much time I have and which way the wind blows me :p

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:54 am
by narfi
Busy couple of days, appraiser came to look at the house yesterday so did a little last minute cleaning up. Should find out in a few days if I get to upgrade my boat/airplane factory.

Sanded and fillited and taped the underside of the console bases.
Routed 1/2" radius under the motorwell bulkhead channel and glued it into place.
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:39 am
by Rover1
Hi Narfi,
Love the layout of the boat. Coming along very nicely. May have to reconsider tiller but that is a long way off.
Do you have a live well in the boat?
Rover1

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:15 am
by narfi
No live well planned for this boat, though I am sure it would be easy to implement if wanted. I have a lot of room behind the 2 main seats and I have seen where people have put in an entire second row of compartments in front of the motorwell bulkhead on the fs17.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:51 am
by Jeff
Nice work Narfi!!!! Looking forward to the airplane build!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:56 am
by narfi
Jeff wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:51 am Looking forward to the airplane build!! Jeff
hehe, me too..... its been a long time comming :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:31 pm
by GuyP
Love those upper motor channel clamps. I’ve been using a couple dozen of them since day one. Great FORUM idea.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:56 pm
by narfi
GuyP wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:31 pm Great FORUM idea.
Yeah, I learned about them here as well. They work great!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:59 pm
by narfi
worked late tonight so only got a couple hours in but atleast I got a little progress.

Epoxy coated the bottom of the channel top plate and glued it down.
Then rounded over and glass taped the top angles of the console base ledges.
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:18 am
by narfi
I'm happy with the motorwell bulkhead channel for the fuel line. Pretty sure I could stand on it without it flexing now.

Discovered an issue with my prototype console...... not sure what the proper term for it is, but the gearbox infront of the helm the cable runs through........ doesn't have room for the cable to attach from inside the console box, its outside because of the extended face.

I'll just do a flat face without the inverted ledge under it, this pushes the helm forward a couple inches, but thats not bad as the space between seat and wheel were a little tight with that setup, now I think it will be perfect.

Got the mounting holes for the bases drilled, but didn't get as far with making the boxes as I had hoped tonight. (Seems in my mind I can work 5 or 6 times as fast as I can in reality)
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:04 pm
by narfi
Laid glass tape down over the transom top I had rounded over.
Laid glass tape over the motorwell bulkhead channel I made.

Cut out the console box side pieces and taped and temp screwed them in place then layed a fillet of thickened epoxy around all the interior i could access around the temporary blocks.
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:35 am
by narfi
Yesterday we were going to make a little fire ring, but got carried away and ended up with more of a huge fire pit.
Christened it last night and had some roasted marshmellows. Landon and his friends loved it.

Cleaned out the boat again, crazy how fast I clutter it all up. But with friends over for BBQ I didn't really get any work done on it, ready to hit it hard this afternoon though.

Ordered a little more epoxy and primer from Reid this morning. I think I might have enough to finish, buy dont want to chance it and be waiting if I get that close and not quite have enough, or be tempted to go light on something to make it stretch.
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:46 am
by Jeff
Really nice progress on your boat!! Love the fire pit!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:27 pm
by narfi
Been getting up at 5.30 and to work by 6 lately, a new thing for me as I am traditionally a slow riser and leisurely breakfaster. But it lets me get a full day of work in by 2ish and home ready to be productive for myself by three.

Got home yesterday and had a snack and was going hard by three. I had cleaned out all the accumulated clutter on Sunday so I was able to unbolt the console boxes and start sanding the entire boat in and out. Finished around 6pm when my beautiful bride brought dinner out to eat on the lawn so I wouldn't be tracking dust around her newly remodeled house. After 30 min or so for dinner I swept all the dust out and started up the compressor and blew out the rest.

I figured if I applied a coat of straight epoxy over everything with a squeegee it would fill the deeper corners of the weave and pinholes, then when it was starting to kick apply a coat of blended fairing mix over the entire beast. Maybe 1-2 hours per coat? Then I would need to go change oil in the village generator as it was due.

Finally finished the first coat at 12.30 back from changing oil at 1.30 and finished last batch of fairing at 7am o.0

Took a hot shower and made a big breakfast of corned beef hash and eggs with coffee and was at work clocked in by 8.
Probably won't get much done on the boat tonight :p
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:40 pm
by pee wee
The way you applied that fairing coat- so smoothly-I'd say you don't like extra sanding work! Nice.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:55 pm
by OrangeQuest
Boat is looking pretty in pink!

I agree with pee wee, you must not like sanding!

I may have to try that method!! :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:01 pm
by narfi
pee wee wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:40 pm The way you applied that fairing coat- so smoothly-I'd say you don't like extra sanding work! Nice.
well here is the problem.... I don't know what I am doing, so I can't accept it as done till it is perfect. (which is why its so much cheaper for me to higher someone to remodel my house than me doing it..... I would take a week trying to get the drywall perfect around the outlet buried behind a cabinet, no mind that no one would ever see it ;/

I am at the point where if I wanted I could just paint it and launch, but I don't know how many fill/sand cycles I have till I am happy with it, hopefully taking care with this method of double coating it will reduce the cycle count by one..... who knows, at some point my wife will tell me to stop polishing the turd, she wants to get out on the lake.

I used a 6" squeegee for both the straight epoxy, and the fairing mix, I probably could have done better with a larger one for much of the surfaces, but it is what I have :)
Also, pictures make it look smoother than it is in person, I am happy with it for my first full coating of fairing, but it still has lots of squeegee edge marks

As beautiful as Landon's canoe turned out, there are lots of pinhole/weave marks that only I know where are showing.... I am hoping it taught me something.... maybe.....

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:44 pm
by Jeff
Nice progress Narfi!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:31 pm
by narfi
As expected I didnt get much done tonight.
Did glass the inside corners of the consoles.

I used fast hardner fairing last night and I suspect got a little blush. Will see tomorow and may pull it out and wash off with warm soapy water and a scotchbrite pad.
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:38 am
by cape man
Kinda like the color! 8)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:16 am
by narfi
My wife helped me hitch up the trailer and pull the boat out this afternoon. We used warm soapy water and scotch Brite pads to wash off all the blush.

I am pretty happy with how it looked in the sun. I might be closer to finished than I thought.

Was a good photo-op for Brutus.
Then we pulled it up on the hill a little so it would drain and had dinner.

I fiddled around a bit more with the consoles. Got the bottom passenger side hatch and backing plate cut. Will have a slightly smaller one on the front of the drivers side hidden by the seat cushion, it will just be accessable for maintenance.

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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:58 am
by Jeff
Good looking Pup Narfi!!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:30 am
by fallguy1000
Things look good.

Fairing is a bear. But epoxy coats build faster than varnish or paint.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:49 pm
by Fuzz
Looking good! Are you planning getting it wet this year?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:54 pm
by Bogieman
Looks great, Narfi!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:24 pm
by narfi
Fuzz wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:49 pm Looking good! Are you planning getting it wet this year?
was hoping for spring 2019, then mid summer, then before freeze.....
This year was hoping for July 1st......
I am not going to make that deadline either, but still holding onto hope that we launch this year while the sun is still warm.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:11 pm
by cape man
You can do it!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:13 am
by narfi
Coated all the bare wood inside the consoles and glued in all the reinforcement panels.
1/4" backing for the hatches and 3/8" doubling for the throttle control and helm mount.
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The panels were bowed slightly so I clamped some straight boards to the doubled areas so hopefully they will cure straighter.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:50 am
by narfi
Wife came out and helped a bit if sanding yesterday. I think she sees the end in sight and wants to get it done.

Spent most of the day sanding, got the outside of the hull, the tops and insides of the gunwalls done, need to do the inside of the side panels and boxes still.

I'm happy with most if it and ready for first test coat of primer for a majority so far.

Still need to sand, fill, fair, sand the sole first.
The rubrails have weave and pinholes still showing so will spend some time exacto knifeing them open and fill and sand same time as sole, but the rest looks good so far.

There were 2 or 3 spots where I got too agressive with the orbital, mostly on corners and bared tiny spots of wood, will coat them at the same time.

Have a quote request in for seat cushions infront of the consols but do not need them to finish and launch the boat.

2 main seats are suppised to arrive from Amazon this week.
Need to get someone to pick me up a sheet of 1/8" plexiglass from home depot and send it out and learn how to heat and bend it without destroying it.

Perhaps I should also mark and route out all my hinge recesses before doing the sole as well, so I can coat them at the same time.

So close on the broad strokes but lots of little stuff still to do.
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:58 am
by cape man
Having the wife help is always nice, and inspiring to me. I always work harder and with more commitment when she pitches in.
We are lucky men.

You're almost there! It really looks nice. My only advice is to accept some flaws when they occur in the final lip stick and enjoy fishing. She's yours for sure.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:51 am
by narfi
Getting the whole family involved now, wife spent feom 4 till 11:30 in the tent with me and Landon came in and helped with some of the more "fun" stuff.

I sanded the inside walls and boxes while she cut open all the voids on the rubrails with an exacto knife.

Swept and blew it all out, wanted to pull it out of the tent to blow off but was raining pretty hard.
Sanded all the lumps off the sole which was prretty quick and blew it off several more times.
Over drilled the console and seat attach holes and taped the underside for filling.
Went back and forth with myself on routing for the cables to the new throttle control placement. I had them comming out from under the drivers seat to the gunwale mount position, this new position is only 8-10 inches up and forward of that but I was thinking I would route them under the gunwale and cut a new hole for them to come up through. However the bulkhead hole there is pretty small and everything is already routed through it, would be a bear to get the 3 cables through now. So I ended up deciding ill keep my existing routing and the cables will just be visable against the gunwale next to the drivers right knee.

Put a skim coat of straight epoxy over the entire sole, both rubrails and the little spots of bare wood I had sanded through as well as the transducer mount.

While waiting for it to gell slightly I Fillited and glass taped in all the reinforcement panels I had glued into the consoles, maybe overkill but its done now.

Then put a coat of blended filler over all the sole and rubrails.

So much faster with my wife helping, perhaps even more than 2x. She mixed and handed to me while I was balanced on the various surfaces above the sole and when she got ahead of me got everything on the rubrails so all I had to do was run the squeegee over them once done inside. Would have taken me forever if I had to get in and out every batch, much like my all-nighter last week, even with her help we went till 11.30.

Went inside and celebrated with midnight smoothies. Landon got his favorite, self picked rhubarb and honey, and I had real peanutbutter with strawberry protine powder. I've been on a huge protine smoothie kick lately. No intentional exersize this summer and eating 3x the calories I was this winter and am maintaining or still slowly losing weight. Think I probably won't have time to lift weights again till it gets dark(this fall) but hopefully keeping my protine intake up I won't atrophy too much.

You can see someone got ahold of my checklist and added something to the end. It is probably a good reminder for all of us.
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:32 am
by Jeff
good progress Narfi!!! You also have some great help!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:20 pm
by OrangeQuest
It is always nice to have help.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:55 am
by narfi
Used my router free hand (scary) to clean up all the drips and bits on the areas the hatch lids rest. They all fit nicer now and I don't think I need to worry about re-warping the bow hatch lid like I thought I would.

Cutout the oval covers for the gunwal hatches at the forward deck. Cutout a new panel that fits the access under the front deck.

Coated the underside of the upper panels for the console boxes (bottom of the glove compartments) and glued them in place. The inside of the boxes won't be pretty, but once I've got it all structurally together I hope I can make the outside look ok.

Was just looking at the pictures I took and I need to check the depth of the simrad screen, hopefully I left enough room behind the sloaped angle for it.

The filler was still slightly rubbery but good enough to walk on, its been cold and rainy last few days. Supposed to be getting nicer though. Will hopefully be cured enough tonight to wash the blush off.

Hopefully get the hinge and latch recesses routered out tonight and maybe get the new covers glassed.
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Landon had some friends call and invite him to go camping. I love where we live. A group of unsupervised 10-12yr olds can just decide to go camping and just walk over, meet up and head out on their own.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:00 pm
by BB Sig
narfi wrote: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:55 am Used my router free hand (scary) to clean up all the drips and bits on the areas the hatch lids rest. They all fit nicer now and I don't think I need to worry about re-warping the bow hatch lid like I thought I would.

Landon had some friends call and invite him to go camping. I love where we live. A group of unsupervised 10-12yr olds can just decide to go camping and just walk over, meet up and head out on their own.
Good job on the boat and free hand router work! 8O

:( I miss those days. Scary world we live in now in the lower 48!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:53 am
by narfi
Was pretty busy yesterday so didn't get much done.
Pulled the boat out and washed off the blush from the filler.
Did a couple sample peices routing recessed areas for mounting hinges on the hatch lids.
Marked out where all of the hinges will go on hatch lids and boat (didn't get the console covers made yet)
Was tired so went to bed early.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:59 am
by narfi
Routed out all the hinge recesses and latch holes.
Hand sanded the edges rounded over for the first of the transome hatches and it looks a lot better rounded over than square..... it hides some of the unevenness.

Glassed over the front gunwale compartment covers and the lid to under the front deck.
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Its all the little things that take so much time, esp. When you don't know what you are doing :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:50 am
by Fuzz
Looks like it is coming along very nicely. We are having some nice days for building :D

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:05 am
by OrangeQuest
Looking really good! Your recesses look so much better than mine.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:49 am
by Jeff
Nice Narfi!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:32 am
by narfi
OrangeQuest wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:05 am Looking really good! Your recesses look so much better than mine.
I was pretty hesitant to just trace and freehand them until I had an epiphany,
If I install them with a little 5200, it doesnt matter if they are perfect or not, no one will ever see the shaky routing lines.

Once I came to that conclusion I was able to boldly 'just do it'. They aren't perfect, but they don't need to be, so I am happy with it, just not the time it takes me to do all of these little things and wrestle with the different ideas in my mind before being brave enough to actually cut or glue something.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:35 am
by narfi
Fuzz wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:50 am Looks like it is coming along very nicely. We are having some nice days for building :D
Days are long, but the weather has been crappy :/
I gota be careful, I tend to go in sprints when there is plenty of daylight, and burn myself out. Last two nights I consciously made an effort to get to bed early as I have been waking up ~5.30 every morning.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:04 pm
by narfi
Lots of detailing, little to show.
Wife hand sanded while I used the orbital on broader stroke areas and piddled around with the consoles and hatch areas trying to get them ready.

Front hatch looks great after rounding over the lips, wish I had a before picture as it really made a huge difference in how clean and straight it looks.

Wife found some voids under the rubrails ans marked them and opened them up with an xacto knife for me.

She said she feels bad like she is delaying the finish when she finds stuff like that, but I told her better now than after we prime and then have to go back and do it all over again. Its really saving us a ton of time to find those things now.
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Be weird celebrating Independance without a huge community gathering picknick, but we are doing a small bring your own food to the beach and lawn at my boss's house so wont be completely void of celebration.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:10 pm
by GuyP
Yes those held me up a little but for a first time builder I’m pleased that there were very few. She is apparently a good QC person.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:36 pm
by Dan_Smullen
Front hatch looks great! Smart layout on the hinges and accessibility.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:55 am
by BB Sig
Looks great!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 12:46 pm
by cape man
My wife has a degree in art and a Master's in museum exhibit design. I love it/hate it when she and I do projects together. I'm the slam it together, epoxy fixes anything guy, and she's always 5 steps ahead looking for perfect. Actually it is a pretty good team...

Boat is really coming together nicely. So looking forward to the splash.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:41 pm
by narfi
Had a good 4th, even got a couple hours on the boat.
No pictures though. Tape tabed in the top shelf panels in the consols, finished sanding/rounding over hatch lids and holes. Cut out the covers for the lower console hatches and glassed first side of them. Was over 100f in the tent so mixed small batches and worked fast using medium harder.

Hiked to the falls last night with the wife, was a beautiful day and a gentle wind when we started but wind died down and bugs were out with a vengeance by the time we got there. They tore us up, mosquitos sucking us dry and the whitesocks taking chunks of flesh.

Was a pretty misseerable hike back down and we took lots of benadryl and went to bed.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:57 pm
by Fuzz
Mosquitoes I can take but the whitesocks are just miserable. They have not showed up here yet and I am grateful for that.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:07 pm
by narfi
Probably shouldn't work on the boat under the influence of benadryl...... spent more time yesterday undoing what I did Sunday than I spent doing it on Sunday........

I pride myself in being good at math, I have no idea what sort of measurements I was using..... none of it matched up with anything o.0

Thankfully I didn't do much :p

I got the console upper front panels cut and "gloveboxes" cut out as well as the hole for the simrad go screen.

Glued their backing plates on
Glued a little peice of 3/8" plywood on the front corner gap where the wires will come up to it. (The shelf panel i cut was missing a corner so I decided that would be intentional for the wiring)

Glassed a couple more of the cover plates.
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:16 pm
by Jeff
Like the hatch, nice work!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:36 pm
by narfi
Glassed the back side of the last of the hatch panels.
Glasses the upper surface of the "glovebox" shelves.
I dont intend on glassing the inside surfaces of the consoles (just taping the corners and epoxy coating the surfaces) but figure the shelf could use some protection from stuff rolling and rattling around.
Coated the inside surfaces of the upper angled panels, i figured it would be easier to coat before gluing in place.

My wife continues to do detail sanding around corners and areas I have sanded through to wood on accident and recoated.
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:59 am
by OrangeQuest
When I lay glass on a lot of little pieces I put them closely together so I can just lay a sheet of glass over them, looks like you are using up your scraps?

Everything is looking great! How close to primer?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:42 am
by narfi
OrangeQuest wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:59 am
Everything is looking great! How close to primer?
so close I can taste it.
yet i have no idea if it is days, or weeks or months :/
The joy of the details :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:07 am
by BB Sig
narfi wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:42 am
OrangeQuest wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:59 am
Everything is looking great! How close to primer?
so close I can taste it.
yet i have no idea if it is days, or weeks or months :/
The joy of the details :)
:lol: That's funny! You do good work!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:31 am
by OrangeQuest
narfi wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:42 am
OrangeQuest wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:59 am
Everything is looking great! How close to primer?
so close I can taste it.
yet i have no idea if it is days, or weeks or months :/
The joy of the details :)
Yes, I do understand! :D :D

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:33 pm
by narfi
2 nights ago I spot glued the upper panels of the consoles in place while my wife spot sanded and looked for voids and cut them open on the boat.
I finished up by squeezing epoxy into the areas she found and opened up.
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:39 pm
by narfi
last night I finished gluing/filliting the inside of the upper panels and glass taped them in, then glued down the top peice on each.

Wife started spot sanding some more but heat in the tent chased her out early. I did all the broad strokes on everything we had touched up with epoxy and filler with the orbital and then sanded down the entire sole.

Left to sand is all the inside corners and under edges of the Ingalls.
Hopefully get that done tonight. Inside corners are difficult and imperfect from digging in with the orbital. I am hopeful that once we get it close I can put in a final corner fillet with tongue depresses shaped nearly perfect of blended filler. Then it won't need sanding for shape, just scuffing for primer adhesion. Will take careful application, but i have been fairly successful with making nice fillets if i am careful and put the time in.
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:09 pm
by Jeff
Really nice work Narfi!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:47 am
by narfi
I got home from work around 3 to find out my beautiful bride had been sanding on the boat since 11am. I joined her and other than a dinner break she went till a little after 7. At that time we had it all sanded and blown out and punholes marked with a new color of sharpie.

I spent the next few hours filling them but primarily filliting all the inside corners. I finished around 11.

If we are happy with it after sanding tomorow we might prep for primer. Fingers crossed :p
It won't be perfect, but probably close enough for who it's for.
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:17 am
by Jeff
Wow, great support from the bride!!!! Just does not get any better!!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:26 am
by BB Sig
I agree with Jeff! I'm starting to think that your wife is ready for the ROI to be realized! :lol: She must be ready to get it on the water! 8)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:34 am
by OrangeQuest
Must be nice!?

I started sanding all my fillets, and with the router round over bit, made the profile I want on a 2"X2"x11" board. Glued 80 grit sandpaper on it and it makes a quick constant profile.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:16 pm
by GuyP
Great progress Narfi and Mrs Narfi. I know y’all gotta make hay while the sun shines way up there.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:36 pm
by narfi
GuyP wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:16 pm Great progress Narfi and Mrs Narfi. I know y’all gotta make hay while the sun shines way up there.
Well I grew up having to do hay and care for farm animals. I never want to do any of that ever again :)

We did however put in a long weekend.......
Slept 3 hours sat night and 4 hours last night.

Will try to describe and post pictures when I have more time.
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Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:19 am
by Fuzz
Alright! That looks great. Will not be long before it is ready for the splash :D

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:41 am
by Jeff
Narfi, she looks great!!! Nice work!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:50 am
by cape man
And then there was a very nice blue boat. 8)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:53 am
by OrangeQuest
cape man wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:50 am And then there was a very nice blue boat. 8)
I had to scroll back a page! This post freaked me out! I thought the Narfi team was still sanding! I go to sleep for 6 hours and missed a whole weekend!

That is a nice color!!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:44 pm
by narfi
Got up early Saturday morning and went to work till noon, came home and the fillets were still not quite ready to sand, so we ate a good lunch and watched a movie and started sanding at 2pm.
Finished sanding around 5 or 6, and pulled it out and washed it off as best I could, then pulled it over to the hangar where I washed it very well with scotchbrite pads and acid etch and rinsed off and blew off as best I could with the front jacked as high as I could to drain.
Pulled it around back into the 'paint booth'... it used to be our paint booth before it was over-run by ground vehicle and tractor mechanics :/ now it is a greasy nasty hole of a room, but its what I have to work with so I make do :)
Blew it off really well and went home for dinner and played a little cards with Alison and Landon.
Went back over and started taping and papering off the bottom and compartments.
Went home and picked up Alison and headed back, we mixed the primer and got the induction time started and got our masks and umbilical cords sorted out. She held hoses out of the way and moved stools while I sprayed.
Started spraying first spackle coat of primer around 11am, and finished the 2nd heavy coat and cleaned up just after 4am. But it ran really bad in a few places :/

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I woke up around 8, cooked a huge breakfast and fancy coffee and headed over to start sanding all the runs. The primer was cured enough to sand IF i was gentle but would roll up if I pressed too hard. Finished sanding round noonish and again washed it out with scotchbrite pads and acid etch and rinsed thourouly and blew it all off to speed up drying.
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Cant remember exactly when, but we sprayed another coat of primer around 4ish that afternoon.
Landon came periodically to check up on us, he was worried we would get holes in both of our masks at the same time and die and he wouldn't know :( (plus he was bored and wanted to be involved)
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We went home and ate dinner and took a nap, was back at the hanger around 9 getting ready to mix white paint. Started spraying around 10ish and had 2nd coat on and cleaned up by 1:30am
After the last coat of white, I did a real heavy cross coat on the floor as I backed my way back out to the corner. It ended up 'okish' but we may want to do some anti-slip coating in the future anyways and we will be walking on it and making it ugly anyways so didnt need to be 'perfect'.
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Monday morning I was back at it by 6am taping off the white and started spraying blue around 7:30
The first coat didn't cover much,
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Neither did the 2nd coat,
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After 4 coats by 10am it was covered and looked decent and even better, I hadn't run it :)
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Clocked into work and then at 3pm coffee break I pulled all the tape and plastic,
The plastic had inhibited some of the curing on the top of the gunwales and made an interesting pattern you can only see if the light is at the right angle, will be interesting to see if that goes away with time or is a permenant unique part of the boat now.

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At quitting time I pulled it back home for its first real photo shoot, which you saw in my last post.
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There are plenty of blemishes and pinholes, but nothing you can really pick out at greater than 3 feet, so I am happy with it.
Things I should have done differently,
Done 3 or 4 lighter coats of primer instead of going heavy on that 2nd coat and running it.

After running it and sanding it, I should have done 2 more coats of primer instead of 1. There is just a hint of where I sanded the motorwell bulkhead visable through the white paint if you look at it close enough, another coat of primer would have hidden that.

I should have done 3 or 4 medium coats of white instead of 2 heavy coats, pretty much should have done it just like I did the blue.

I should have waited another day before masking the white to paint blue.

All things considered though, for <48 hours from first wash down, to priming twice to two different colors to final photoshoot outdoors isn't bad I don't think.

Couldn't have done it without my wife, she has been extremely helpful the last couple weeks.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:51 pm
by BB Sig
Nice pictures! 8)

Now add some words in! :lol:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:55 pm
by OrangeQuest
Sweet!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:11 pm
by narfi
BB Sig wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:51 pm Nice pictures! 8)

Now add some words in! :lol:
Done, the words are applied :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:04 pm
by OrangeQuest
Now for all the bling!!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:15 pm
by silentneko
Nice, that's a quick turn. What paint was it?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:18 pm
by BB Sig
If someone, other than from the forum, notices those beauty marks; throw them over board! :lol:

Nice story and good work! :D

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:20 pm
by narfi
silentneko wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:15 pm Nice, that's a quick turn. What paint was it?
System 3 primer and AwlGrip top coat.
I like the AwlGrip, but the pigment is pretty translucent, I had the same issue with Landons canoe where I needed many coats to get full coverage. It looks nice when done though and sprays pretty easily as long as you don't go heavy on any of the coats.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:27 pm
by narfi
OrangeQuest wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:04 pm Now for all the bling!!
Yes.... Last night I finished filling in all the outside gaps of the consoles, will start rounding them over tonight and taping the outside corners.
All the bling needs bolted on.
Motor needs mounted and rigged.
Wiring needs finished.
Mercury to Simrad conversion wiring needs mounted and finished.
All the cover panels need a final fairing and painted, then hinges and latches installed.
Who knows what other little details I am missing that will come up :P

Hoping to do the rest of the painting this weekend and in the water next week, but realistically it could be a couple more weeks.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:43 pm
by Jeff
Nice Narfi. Really well done!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:58 pm
by OrangeQuest
narfi wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:27 pm
OrangeQuest wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:04 pm Now for all the bling!!
Yes.... Last night I finished filling in all the outside gaps of the consoles, will start rounding them over tonight and taping the outside corners.
All the bling needs bolted on.
Motor needs mounted and rigged.
Wiring needs finished.
Mercury to Simrad conversion wiring needs mounted and finished.
All the cover panels need a final fairing and painted, then hinges and latches installed.
Who knows what other little details I am missing that will come up :P

Hoping to do the rest of the painting this weekend and in the water next week, but realistically it could be a couple more weeks.
And then....
and then....
and then.....

I hate it when I start thinking of all the and then.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:57 am
by narfi
Sanded down the consoles, used the router to round over all the square corners and hand sanded the odd angled ones to closely match. There were still a few gaps ans places needed filled so I got the last of my wood flour mixed and applied before dinner. Was hoping that at 100+ in the tent it would cure quick enough i could sand it down and tape the corners tonight but by 8.30 it was still slightly rubbery so I chose to wait. Maybe come home at 10am for an hour and do it.
20200714_215531.jpg
Mounted the seats and swivels. The seat mounting points were about a 1/2 bolt radius too narrow for the swivels so I just slotted the swivel plate and used large area washers.

Set all the bling in place to see how it looks but didnt attach any yet.


20200714_215559.jpg
20200714_215623.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:26 am
by BB Sig
The boat looks even better with seats! :D

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:10 am
by Jeff
Again, very nice work Narfi!!! You are almost ready to start the airplane build!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:41 pm
by Fuzz
That thing looks way too nice to be a bush boat :lol:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:44 pm
by Dan_Smullen
Looking good! I love seeing the kid on the jack. Reminds me of myself... :lol:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:29 pm
by narfi
So I either did something smart or stupid.

Went home at 10am and sanded down the consoles and epoxied tapes down on all the outside corners, even the bottom ones balancing it all on buckets.
Then as soon as I was done applied blended filler over everything.

Decided not to put woven on the flat areas as its not necessary even though i like going above and beyond, time is pressing so time to get it finished.

Was done at 2 and it was already over 80f in the tent. Might even be able to sand tonight if I get lucky, otherwise think ill start trying to remember what I was going to do for wiring.
20200715_142553.jpg
Side note: something good must have happened in the world. All the cruise lines are up ~20% today

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:55 pm
by Rover1
That is a great job Narfi!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:11 am
by narfi
Sorry no pictures.

Mounted the motor and bolted down.
Hooked up the steering arm.
Verified the routing to the new shifter throttle will work.
Discovered I had the wrong fittings for my fuel/water filter but found the right ones at work.

Wife started scraping the epoxy and tape off the lights under the gunwales..... thats going to be a chore, I got more over them than I realized. She got about 1/4 of them done.

Didn't get any sanding done on the consoles like I planned, the bugs got too bad and I had to call it a night.

I talked to my wife and offered to launch with unpainted console and no hatches. But she said we should finish it first which is what I would have preferred, so we will probably try for next week sometime. (Provided I dont have jury duty... i have to start checking in for that on Friday:( )

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:41 am
by Fuzz
Where do you have to go to for jury duty.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:22 am
by narfi
Fuzz wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:41 am Where do you have to go to for jury duty.
Anchorage. :/

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:46 am
by narfi
Sanded down the consoles, they will need at least one more round of fairing.
Cut the mounting holes for the helm, switches and throttle/shift remote.
20200716_214504.jpg
20200716_214526.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:25 am
by BB Sig
Looking great! The little details are going to make a huge difference! :D

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:57 am
by Jeff
Looks great Narfi!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:25 am
by OrangeQuest
Yes!! It does look nice!


Are you going to be making small wind screens?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:55 am
by cape man
I would round over those two corners to match the curve in the throttle/shift, and round over the edges. Now would be the time..

Boat looks awesome!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:53 am
by narfi
OrangeQuest wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:25 am Yes!! It does look nice!


Are you going to be making small wind screens?
Yes, I have 2 sheets of 2x4 1/8" plexiglass. Will see how successful I am at bending it, and if it is thick enough to hold itself up. I have a little bit of buyers remorse, thinking I should have gone with 1/4" after seeing someone elses on here, but I do like the idea of lighter weight if it is strong enough.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:54 am
by narfi
cape man wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:55 am I would round over those two corners to match the curve in the throttle/shift, and round over the edges. Now would be the time..

Boat looks awesome!
Yes, if you zoom in reeeeaaallllly close, you can almost see the lines I traced around it to trim and sand to, just need to figure out how to clean up that bottom corner as well so it all transitions nicely on the eyes.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:24 am
by cape man
The 1/8" will work. Just dont make them too tall. The sides wrapped around the console will stiffen them up. Add thicker ones later if you aren't happy.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:26 am
by cape man
Remember to measure the front of the screens to add a 1/4 inch for spacers.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:54 am
by narfi
cape man wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:26 am Remember to measure the front of the screens to add a 1/4 inch for spacers.
Could you explain this better for me? I don't think I am following something that is probably obvious :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:49 pm
by OrangeQuest
narfi wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:54 am
cape man wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:26 am Remember to measure the front of the screens to add a 1/4 inch for spacers.
Could you explain this better for me? I don't think I am following something that is probably obvious :)
I am trying to follow too, but I missed the big picture and this seems to be that.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:35 pm
by BB Sig
OrangeQuest wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:49 pm
narfi wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:54 am
cape man wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:26 am Remember to measure the front of the screens to add a 1/4 inch for spacers.
Could you explain this better for me? I don't think I am following something that is probably obvious :)
I am trying to follow too, but I missed the big picture and this seems to be that.
Me three! I'm feeling lost by his warning. 8O

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:55 pm
by silentneko
I think he is advising you to account for the thickness of the windscreen in your measurement? 1/8" for material, and 1/8" for padded spaces maybe?

You measure the console, which is the inside of the screen, but when you cut your screen and fold it you are measuring on the outside.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:50 pm
by BrianC
BB Sig wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:35 pm
OrangeQuest wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:49 pm
narfi wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:54 am Could you explain this better for me? I don't think I am following something that is probably obvious :)
I am trying to follow too, but I missed the big picture and this seems to be that.
Me three! I'm feeling lost by his warning. 8O
I think that what he means is that the windshield doesn't go hard against the console. There are rubber grommet-type spacers in each screw hole that hold it off the console just a bit, like this:
7079

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:04 am
by OrangeQuest
OOOOOH!

That makes sense.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:12 am
by cape man
Brian's drawing is what I meant.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:33 am
by OrangeQuest
cape man wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:12 am Brian's drawing is what I meant.
Words just get us confused!! :lol: :lol:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:26 pm
by narfi
Sanded more on the consoles yesterday, hooked up the steering cable to the helm in place to make sure there were no conflicts. There were.... battery will now be mounted below in the larger base compartment.

Wife and a friend took a couple boatloads of the kids across the lake around 3 for a picknick and hangout, when her husband got off work we flew over as well.

Two boatloads and a plane load over compressed into 1 boatload and 2 plane loads back. Landon and i stayed behind and were the 2nd plane load.
20200718_092238.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 2:23 pm
by Fuzz
That is a classic bush picture! Good to see you guys out having some fun.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:29 pm
by narfi
What spacers are used? I was planning to just use a bead of clear silicone.......
Open to any better ideas

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:22 pm
by silentneko
If you go to the hardware store, I don't think you have a home depot, they usually have wide washers. I think they are made of neoprene or soft vinyl and are over an inch wide. At least that is what I have seen used before.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:39 pm
by BrianC
A rubber grommet is what you need. It acts as a spacer between the windscreen and the console and also between the screw and plexiglas. Something like this (avail. from Amazon):
02C1BDE7-2EB0-4875-9BD2-A28B3DE84A3F.jpeg
02C1BDE7-2EB0-4875-9BD2-A28B3DE84A3F.jpeg (25.06 KiB) Viewed 2322 times

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:37 pm
by Fuzz
silentneko wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:22 pm If you go to the hardware store, I don't think you have a home depot, they usually have wide washers. I think they are made of neoprene or soft vinyl and are over an inch wide. At least that is what I have seen used before.
He has a Home Depot just a couple of hours away.........................by 180 that is :lol: :lol:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:36 am
by cape man
Mine are half inch circles cut with a hole saw out of a scrap piece of 3/8" starboard. Going out today and will take a couple of close up pics.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:43 pm
by cape man
20200719_143021.jpg
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20200719_143039.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:02 am
by narfi
Weather was bad this weekend so no internet for updates.
Saturday I sanded down the consoles and shapped the throttle mount better. Sanded down all the hatches and cleaned up the hatch holes on the consoles. Then frosted the consoles again and a coat of epoxy on the top of all the hatch lids.
20200720_065225.jpg
20200720_065242.jpg

Kept getting called into work yesterday so didn't get alot done.
Flipped the consoles and epoxy coated the bottom ensuring no bare wood is open.
Cut spacers for all the latch mount holes as the latches I got won't quite clamp down on a thinner peice of plywood. Glued them all on. I had ordered 4 more of the same latched from amazon but they arrived different, do the 4 console latches don't need doublers.
Cut out a panel to mount electrical stuff to that can then be bolted inside the console. I can wire everything up before bolting the consoles in place and just need to slide the panel and switch box up into place and secure them. (Hopefully)
20200720_065348.jpg
20200720_065423.jpg
Need to setup the battery restraint area in the lower box still, i keep forgetting i need to make some more brackets for straps. My plan is just a short foot base the battery will sit in to keep it from sliding around and a strap over it to hold it down and in the base.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:08 am
by narfi
cape man wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:43 pm 20200719_143021.jpg20200719_143026.jpg20200719_143039.jpg
Ok, I see what you are talking about now.
What is the advantage to 1/4" over say a teflon washer? I understand that there is expansion and contraction that needs to be accounted for to prevent cracking, but 1/4" seems way overkill?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:14 am
by cape man
It makes washing it out easier? My friend helped build it and that's how he does it? Either way would work.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:32 am
by narfi
cape man wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:14 am It makes washing it out easier? My friend helped build it and that's how he does it? Either way would work.
Ok cool, thanks!
Points to ponder over the next day or two, running out of things to do before that stage :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:41 am
by cape man
My small nail clippers wedge perfectly between the shield and console 8) :lol:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:43 am
by narfi
I sanded down all the panels and cleaned out the latch holes from epoxy drips.
Sanded down one of the consoles and it looks good, won't need to fair them again.
Wanted to prime last night but time was getting away from me so I didn't sand the second console and instead switched gears to a couple other details before bed.

Coated the other side of the electrical panel with epoxy.
Made the stock to cut strap tie down brackets for retaining the battery from 3x layers of 12oz tape over a stick and clear plastic tape "mold" made it long enough ill be able to cut quite a few extras this time. Somehow I only have 1 left from making them for the fuel tank.
20200721_071548.jpg
20200721_071651.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:45 am
by narfi
My wife and I finished sanding the consoles and took them and the hatch covers over to the hangar.
Washed them with acid etch and rinced them off and hung them up and setup to dry and ready to prime.

Ate dinner and went back and got started.
3 coats of primer and didnt run any of it. The hanging panels weren't heavy enough so blew around alot when spraying, I think its too risky for the topcoat so going to cut them down and only paint the tops laying horizontal, the inside will remain just primed.

A picture of imperfection for anyone who is tempted to oh and ah after the paint is sprayed..... got a couple of these pinhole spots, but I'm in finish mode now and honestly I'm probably the only person to be bothered by them once we launch.
20200721_233717.jpg
20200721_233725.jpg
20200721_233740.jpg
20200721_233758.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:46 am
by Aripeka Angler
Very nice work. :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:47 am
by OrangeQuest
That really does look nice!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:41 am
by cape man
Soon...very soon. 8)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:51 am
by Jeff
Great work Narfi!!!! You guys stay safe up there!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:34 pm
by narfi
I think im getting old, woke up at 4:30 and figured since I was awake I may as well get my day started.

Had almost a whole mixing cup of white paint left over last week when finisihng the boat, so I sealed the top with a rubber glove and put it in the freezer.
Pulled it out this morning and cut down all the panels and laid them out face up on blocks on a table.
The paint didn't warm up any, but it still sprayed just fine.
Clocked in for an hour and did some office work, them mixed a fresh cup for the 2nd coat.

The panels are good, the consoles 'ok'.
Pinholes are more visable, but I can live with them.
Passengers console got a pretty good run on two of the vertical surfaces, but I can live with that now as well.

For those viewing and planing. The pictures look a lot better than reality, so don't be too hard on your expectations :)
20200722_091241.jpg
20200722_091400.jpg
20200722_091434.jpg
20200722_091452.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:38 pm
by Jeff
Looks good Narfi!!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:41 am
by Coach
Looking good Narfi! I sent you a PM but it looks like its stuck in my Outbox. Let me know if you don't get it.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:42 am
by narfi
In my efforts to catalog the good, the bad, the ugly and the Stupid, today I present the stupid.....

Finished working around 3:30 and wrapped the panels in paper and lined my 4wheeler trailer with paper and set the consoles in it, loaded up the panels and box of paint supplies. Boss called and project we were expecting 1.5 days to do was given a "by morning" deadline. I hadn't had lunch yet so drove the trailer home in the rain and got a quick bite. Unloaded the trailer into the tent......

Mud flung over everything wasn't too big a deal, I wiped it gently off with paper towels and it looked OK. But the console had rubbed against the trailer and worn through the soft paint. Even worse the paper I had wrapped the panels in stuck to them.

I laid everything out and went back to work.

First picture is a "glamor shot" of the worst panel from a few feet away, then close in showing not just the pinholes but also the now imbedded paper fibers.

Finally the front of the drivers console with the paint worn through.
20200723_063215.jpg
20200723_063240.jpg
20200723_063317.jpg
I dont like it, but my wife seems to think its not that bad, she will buff the fibers off best she can and maybe touch up a little with a brush, or maybe I can borrow a touch-up gun.

I was hoping to get a good start on the non sanding and painting parts remaining yesterday but maybe today :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:48 am
by narfi
Coach wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:41 am Looking good Narfi! I sent you a PM but it looks like its stuck in my Outbox. Let me know if you don't get it.
got it! Thanks for the info :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:03 am
by narfi
Well my beautiful bride saved the day (again)
She buffed out all those spots with 800, 1500, and a little 3000 grit and it all looks OK now. A little "flat" in spots, but for the pannels they will get handled and scratched anyways so it's more than good enough. The spots I thought had rubbed through the consols paint was really dirt ground into it and she was able to buff that out as well.

I got most of the fuel line and water blocker hooked up, needed 2 more hose clamps and done.
Hooked up the throttle and shift and all wiring to the motor and to the remote quadrant.
Wired up the socket for fog light pole.
Started wiring up the nav light.
Started wiring in all the led cupholders and found most of them either dont work at all or have a few lights out...... thats what i get for cheaping out on Amazon :(
Got the compartment lights hooked up.
Something is wrong with the wire I had run to the bow compartment, I need to trace it and see what is wrong.
Left side USB for inside the console compartment is wired ready to pull up inside once I bolt it on.

The latches dont get tight enough so I cut a bunch of "latch plates" that Alison sanded and I coated with epoxy. Will glue them in place today along with the battery tie down brackets.

Lots to do still but getting close.

Need to splice the transducer cable where I pulled it through the transom.
Need to figure out a new cupholder plan.
Need to chase the bow compartment wiring issue.
Need to mount and wire the fuse box and switches
Need to mount and wire the plotter and engine monitor caveling. (Power and nmea2k conversions)
Bolt on all the hinges and latches.
Who knows what else I'm still missing :p but it was a good day.
20200724_064846.jpg
20200724_064919.jpg
20200724_064954.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:22 am
by OrangeQuest
That is really good news, for the most of it. Then consoles are looking great!

I am planning on using EVA sheet foam to line inside the frames to act as a gasket but more to keep the hatches from rattling. I can get it in different thicknesses here in Houston. But I will be making the strikers soon enough.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:07 pm
by narfi
Time will tell how the rattling issue goes.... It is something I have considered, but wont worry about until later, its something I can mess with and change after launch.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:57 am
by cape man
I had to do the same thing on my hatches for the latches. I glued a small piece of aluminum on the face of the spacers where the catch hits.

Looking good!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:50 am
by Jeff
Great work Narfi!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:28 am
by narfi
Friday, Saturday and today I worked at all the details, wiring, and plumbing. Bolting down all the hardware, etc.....

Landon spent most of yesterday under the front deck with brutus listening to The Last of the Breed by Louis L'Amour.

Alison helped me with hardware when my arms couldn't reach around. She was in town over the weekend and brought home some rope and anchor without me even asking.
20200726_212200.jpg
20200726_212214.jpg
20200726_212231.jpg
20200726_212248.jpg
20200726_212304.jpg
I need to figure out the simrad Go for engine info. I powered it on and the GPS works, it showed where I was, but didn't see any engine data. I need to read up on setting it up.

Lots of little things I could still do, and build the windshields. But I think it is good enough to launch now.
Tomorow if its not raining too hard or I find any major issues, we will fill it up with gas and drop it in the water.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:40 am
by OrangeQuest
Beautiful, just beautiful!! Very nice looking.

Looks like the edge of the boat is resting on the trailer frame? Or is that the angle of the picture?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:27 am
by narfi
OrangeQuest wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:40 am
Looks like the edge of the boat is resting on the trailer frame? Or is that the angle of the picture?
I went out this morning before work to check. It's close but not hitting. 1/2-3/4" clearance.

Also tried something I thought of lying in bed last night. I turned the key on to the motor and then the simrad go recognized it was connected to a mercury. I didn't have time to play with it anymore, but its good to know I have it wired up right. (Last night I wasnt getting any engine anything on the simrad and was worried)
20200727_062652.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:07 am
by VT_Jeff
Looking great Narfi, nice work! I really like the clean look of the gunnels like that with no rub rail, is that the final plan? Giving me ideas.....

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:41 am
by narfi
VT_Jeff wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:07 am Looking great Narfi, nice work! I really like the clean look of the gunnels like that with no rub rail, is that the final plan? Giving me ideas.....
There is a 3 or 4 (need to go back to remember) layer plywood rubrail, I wont be adding any metal/plastic/etc... additional to the outside of it though.
No docks here, nothing really to rub against, but the layers of plywood there make it super stiff. (as does the extra wide gunwales)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:44 pm
by OrangeQuest
Wow! Am I reading it right, missed a lot of updates?
My Garmin, VHF and the stereo all link together...someday. I bet they will also need updates.

Wonder if the 25hp Suzuki would also link in?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:58 pm
by Jeff
Really nice looking boat Narfi!!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:28 pm
by narfi
OrangeQuest wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:44 pm Wow! Am I reading it right, missed a lot of updates?
My Garmin, VHF and the stereo all link together...someday. I bet they will also need updates.

Wonder if the 25hp Suzuki would also link in?
Been bad weather here so internet has been flakey. So that's why I did 3 days worth in my last update.

Most of the electronics use a NMEA2k network standard. Mercury does not, so I had to buy a link converter box that translates the mercury proprietary network to nmea2k.
You should look up the details on your motor and what network standard it uses. If it uses NMEA2k, you just need to run a cable from it into your NMEA2k backbone and your electronics should pick it up. If it doesn't, then you would need to research what it takes to convert its output to nmea2k. If you read back somewhere in this thread, I figured it all out for this and the wiring and layed it all out with pictures and writing on the pictures explaining each step and component.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:31 pm
by OrangeQuest
I remember all you were doing to get everything to work. Made my head spin at times reading it!

I would just need the tach to read on the display. the little Suzuki has the low oil press light, temp light and I don't remember the last one, but they are just lights on the motor. I would assume just on/off sensors. Suzuki makes a tach that the lights are in the tach display and I can get it in white! But was hoping to save the $$$.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:09 pm
by narfi
OrangeQuest wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:31 pm I remember all you were doing to get everything to work. Made my head spin at times reading it!

I would just need the tach to read on the display. the little Suzuki has the low oil press light, temp light and I don't remember the last one, but they are just lights on the motor. I would assume just on/off sensors. Suzuki makes a tach that the lights are in the tach display and I can get it in white! But was hoping to save the $$$.
I didn't have time to watch it, but this video might get you started down the right path,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=542KBgilO-o

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:38 pm
by OrangeQuest
Thank you going through the trouble of finding that info for a Suzuki! I read through, skimmed more like it, and the diagrams and the direction look very straight forward on connecting everything. It will just be very time consuming to read, do and then check to make sure it works. My main goal will be that the VHF and the GPS interface and that looks very straight forward....on paper! :doh:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:20 pm
by narfi
Launched!!!
https://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?p=474791


After work I found a SD card (takes a micro not a full size) and put it in the Simrad Go and updated it, fought with the VesselView Link trying to update it but kept failing, gave myself a time limit where I would give up on the update and proceeded forward and hit my deadline so will try to figure it out later.

We took it over and filled the tank with gas, the plumbing isn't great and so couldnt fill at full speed pressure from the pump.... Not sure if I will move the fill cap up to the side of the console for a straight down fill route, or leave it tucked under the gunnel like it is..... will see how frustrated I get filling it :P

Checked fluids then screwed a garden hose into the motor and started it and idled for a minute, so I knew it would run and the starter worked.
As you can see in the launch thread, we were quite happy with it.

The holes I have drilled for drains in the side were well above the water line, so that worked out well. I kept them plugged for the initial launch, but looks like if its just the 3 of us, there is no need to have them plugged even with full fuel.

The LED cupholders were a fail.... 4 of them dont light at all, and the rest all have bad lights.... Shouldnt have gone cheap I guess, anyone know of a quality blue led cupholder?

Biggest project remaining is the windshields, maybe this weekend.
Lots of little stuff, tying up wire bundles etc... One of the cleats is loose, I need to tighten it or replace the screw holding it down, need to investigate.
Need to learn how to operate the display and customize some screens to display what I need.

The trailer is still not finished... I don't weld though, so will be on my buddies time when he can get to that.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:13 pm
by PapaDave
Nice job Narfi. That should give you many years of enjoyment in Alaska. It was fun to hear about your family coming together and finishing her up this summer. Great accomplishment!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:01 am
by narfi
Windshields done.
20200801_215119.jpg
20200801_215148.jpg
I started out testing in our sheet metal break. I was able to route a 1/2" radius on a 2x8 and extended the clamping jaws of the break to hold the "radius bar" and the plexiglass. The metal surface worked too much of a heat sink though and couldn't get the plexi up hot enough with the hot air gun. Used a torch to assist it and almost worked but cracked it forcing it too soon, and the touch created bubbles near the bend.

We ended up just letting gravity do the work and it ended up being pretty easy once we got it figured out.
Using the same 2x8 radius board, we laid the plexi on top of it and screwed another 2x4 ontop as a clamp.
Then my wife would patiently heat the bending area with the heat gun till it would droop down from its own weight.
She would then give it a few more passes with heat then i would press against it with a board to insure an even bend around the routed corner and flat face. While I held it, she would give the corner a few more passes of heat then i held on till it cooled. It worked really well.

We used Teflon washers on each side of the plexi when installing. Got one thought of a crack when drilling the holes (i used a unibit very slowly) but i torched it with a lighter and it seemed to heal itself..... time will tell.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:21 am
by cape man
Those will be nice in the rain, or even on a cold day. Does it get cold or rain there? 8)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:13 am
by jonnymac
looks good!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:24 am
by OrangeQuest
Sweeeeeet!!

very nicely done.

The wife have to do the heat gun cause you wanted to rush it along to much? :lol: :lol:

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:12 pm
by narfi
cape man wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:21 am Those will be nice in the rain, or even on a cold day. Does it get cold or rain there? 8)
not if you ask my son, doesn't matter if we are going out in the boat in an overcast drizzle or to play in the snow in Feb.... he thinks socks and jackets and hats are unnecessary.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:13 pm
by narfi
OrangeQuest wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:24 am Sweeeeeet!!

very nicely done.

The wife have to do the heat gun cause you wanted to rush it along to much? :lol: :lol:
Sounds like you understand my shortcomings perfectly :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:14 pm
by narfi
having some issues getting full rpm from the motor/prop combo. Posted a new thread asking advise on that specific issue.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:18 pm
by GuyP
Looking great! Landon and Last of the Breed, my first Louis L’Amor read. Spent the next 20 years exhausting his library, many hours while in deer stands in crunchy hardwood bottoms.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:08 pm
by Jeff
Well done Narfi!!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:58 am
by narfi
I weigjed her this weekend.
Will give you guys till tonight to guess the weight.

Standard sheer.
Additional reverse chines and strikes and double layer of tape over all of them on the bottom.
Under sole filled with foam.
Thick rubrails, wide gunwales.
Reinforced forward deck.
Extra compartments everywhere.
Two consoles.
Remote steering engine controls and all that goes with that.
Battery under the helm console. Big cables running back to motor.
19 gal fuel tank under passengers console and fuel lines back from there with water blocker filter in motorwell.
Etc......
You know its over weight..... how much????
(I weighed with full fuel and calculated out 19gal so it will count all the fuel in the lines and filters.)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:04 am
by silentneko
including the motor and rigging..... I'm guessing 900lbs

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:09 am
by cape man
1,200 lbs

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:11 am
by narfi
silentneko wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:04 am including the motor and rigging..... I'm guessing 900lbs
Yes including the motor sorry I forgot the obvious..... its supposed to be a little over 250#

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:34 am
by Aripeka Angler
1350?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:58 pm
by Coach
I am going with #1250

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:42 pm
by Fuzz
1425

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:05 pm
by jonnymac
1 lb 😜

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:20 pm
by narfi
jonnymac wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:05 pm1 lb 😜
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QJiAK-s5a0

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:23 pm
by jonnymac
narfi wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:20 pm
jonnymac wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:05 pm1 lb 😜
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QJiAK-s5a0
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

one of my favorite scenes

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:26 am
by narfi
20200824_065143.jpg
20200824_065154.jpg
1806 - 484 = 1322
-114(fuel)
= 1208

Much heavier than I had guessed, but I am very happy with it and how it handles so its all good :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:37 am
by OlivierP
The study plan says 315#... +900, really ? Amazing

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:21 am
by silentneko
Wow. 950lbs without the motor? I hope mine comes in a bit lighter or I'll be scraping bottom most days, lol.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:52 am
by cape man
So my 1200 guess was the winner? What do I get? :lol: :lol:

Whatever it is, I'll take what's behind curtain number 3 instead.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:20 am
by narfi
OlivierP wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:37 am The study plan says 315#... +900, really ? Amazing
Yes it is.... so, can we figure out where the 600# came from? I suspect its not that uncomon and perhaps I can help the next guy have more realistic expectations and perhaps raise their sole an inch or so back in the planning stages.

Battery
Gunwales (I made them pretty stout after reading about someones adventures in their gunwale splice delaminating most of the top plate of my gunwales are doubled up as I wanted to double up everywhere there was cupholders and rod holders etc...)
Consoles
Helm and remote rigging, battery cables, etc....
Water filter and bracket assembly
Hardware
3 foam kits
The additional reverse chines, strakes and associated glass
Glass all the way up the sides
Added compartments and doublers for hatches

It adds up faster than you realize.
315# is the bare hull no gunwales just rubrail and setup for tiller steering
I still didn't expect it to be 600# heavier though, I expected about 300 more..... but It is still a great boat and can still haul a huge load

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:32 am
by OneWayTraffic
Also Meranti vs okuome and all the extra fairing. And the the rigging, anchor and all the other bits and pieces.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:37 am
by narfi
I used okoume

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:40 am
by narfi
Lawnmower through a huge rock against the fs17 this last weekend and went through the glass and splintered some plywood under it.

Ground it back to about a 2.5-3ish inch circle then filled with 4 layers of 6oz woven starting with dime sized and growing up to the 2.5-3 inches each progressive layer. I could have probably just filled with thickened epoxy and faired back and painted, but the glass is probably less brittal and a little more 'proper'

Forgot to take a before picture but here is sanded back and then with the 4 layers of glass.
20210629_193605.jpg
20210629_215002.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:05 am
by cape man
That sucks, but looks like a good repair.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:29 am
by Jeff
Agree, good repair Narfi!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:10 am
by narfi
Forgot to take any pictures with the fairing compound, we drove it around a couple weeks like that but got it painted this weekend.

Taped off and rolled 2 coats of primer Saturday, then 2 coats of awlgrip yesterday. Pulled the tape and didn't like the sharp edges or the edge of the primer visible. So rolled freehand over all the edges and it blended in nicely, can't even find it from 3ft away.

I just have the spray converter but didn't want to clean the gun again for such a small project, even with the spray converter it seemed to roll well.

I also touched up a bad spot on the rubrail I had scraped a post with parking it under the shed last summer, had scraped the paint off but didn't touch the glass. I did spray that as I was spraying white on the trimaran project so already had the gun setup. Forgot to take pictures of it though.
20210718_191452.jpg
20210718_195858.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:32 pm
by OrangeQuest
Nice repair!! Very nice! 8)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:56 pm
by TomW1
Looks great Narfi! Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:40 am
by TomTom
narfi wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:40 am Lawnmower through a huge rock against the fs17 this last weekend and went through the glass and splintered some plywood under it.
Have you seen the scene in Croc Dundee where he says “That’s not a knife ... this is a knife”.... I feel like you must have to say that about your lawn mower for it to have done so much damage! 😂😂

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:12 am
by narfi
TomTom wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:40 am Have you seen the scene in Croc Dundee....
I'm just glad it wasnt a window or a kid :)

Image

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:00 pm
by TomTom
I was going to assume you don’t have a conservatory and ask whether you do anything near buildings and neighbours by hand!

What else can your lawn mower do?!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:55 pm
by narfi
TomTom wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:00 pm I was going to assume you don’t have a conservatory and ask whether you do anything near buildings and neighbours by hand!

What else can your lawn mower do?!
I had to look up what a consevatory was...... nope don't have one of those :) the grass/dirt/tundra/rockpile I mow is around our house, though we are putting in patios hopefully this week so will shrink the mowing area a bit :P
Lots of trees between us and any neighbors, but we have an 11yr old so neighborhood kids are always comming and going, as 'rural' as our village is all the kids are free range and come and go as they please. My wife asked when Landon was comming home last night and my answer was "when he gets hungry, unless someone feeds him".(which they often do)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:31 pm
by Jeff
That sounds like a great place to raise kids Narfi!!!! Really hard to find today!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:33 am
by glossieblack
Happy birthday Narfi.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:58 am
by narfi
glossieblack wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:33 am Happy birthday Narfi.
Hehe thanks.
Woke up in Annapolis.
Tomorrow is our anniversary and it's been way too long since we got out alone together.
So we are going boat shopping for a couple days with an empty wallet. Hopefully recharge a bit and dream alot. None of you are here are you?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:10 am
by Jeff
Happy Birthday Narfi!!! I hope you have a great day with the family!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:30 am
by fallguy1000
Happy Birthday. Lots of boats in Annapolis I hear.

Have fun. Might need a jacket.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:46 pm
by TomW1
Happy birthday yesterday, but more importantly congrats on the anniversary today may you have many more!

Tom

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:43 pm
by narfi
Thanks all. Having fun :)
fallguy1000 wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:30 am Happy Birthday. Lots of boats in Annapolis I hear.

Have fun. Might need a jacket.

Well it snowed at out house last night (we saw it on the doorbell camera) and it's sunny and muggy in Annapolis........ Shorts and t-shirt feel over dressed right now :)

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri May 20, 2022 1:55 am
by narfi
Couple modifications before launching this spring.

Put clamshells over the drain holes on the side so spray doesn't come in when they are open under way. (Tested and working well now)

Moved the fuel filler and vent up to the side of the passenger console. The gunnel location was to low and horizontal a run and the vent and fill combo filler always ended up flooding the vent and causing issues back feeding while fueling which turned it into a slow dribble at a time process for fueling. Tested and 'better'.... Much better really, but need to build a wedge to mount it on, mounted on vertical side makes it too easy for fuel to pour back out the filler if done wrong... No issues at all with the vent though so the process is already a lot better.

Cut a hole in the side of the console above the fuel tank and screwed a grate over it for better air flow/ventilation.

Went for a spin the other night and was beautiful out. One picture shows how high the sun is at 8pm ;)
It's been warm this week sun out every day and we been working with the hangar door open enjoying the fresh air and sunshine.
20220517_192650.jpg
20220517_195035.jpg
20220517_195216.jpg
20220517_193821.jpg

20220517_195518.jpg
20220517_193812.jpg

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri May 20, 2022 6:40 am
by OrangeQuest
What nice views you get to enjoy regularly!

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri May 20, 2022 8:29 am
by fallguy1000
Is that a lake run or ocean?

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri May 20, 2022 9:06 am
by narfi
It's the lake here.

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Fri May 20, 2022 9:15 am
by Jeff
Beautiful Narfi!!!! Jeff

Re: Narfi's FS17 - Build Thread

Posted: Sat May 21, 2022 6:13 pm
by TomW1
Beautiful place to live Narfi. :D

Tom