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Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:46 am
by reefie
Hi Guys,

I have made a start on my LB26. I have completed all the temporary molds and have set them up on my jig.

I should be able to start planking within the next few weeks.





Its such a beautiful hull shape.


Cheers,

Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:41 am
by glossieblack
reefie wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:46 am

Image

Its such a beautiful hull shape.
Welcome to the forum Reffie. :D

To my eye, the LB26 is about JM's prettiest boat. I'll be following your build with interest and pleasure.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:16 am
by Browndog
That is quite a compliment coming from Glossie who is building one of the prettiest and most interesting boats any of us have ever seen. His "Rat Rod" finish is better than most of our final finishes.

I've been extremely impressed by the ambition and ingenuity of the Australian Builders on this forum.

Best wishes for a fantastic build. It looks like you are off to a great start. Especially like your use of lots of lasers!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:28 am
by cape man
Will watch with intent! This will be a great build!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:14 am
by Eric1
I have looked at the study plans so many times. I'm thrilled to watch one come together!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:26 am
by topwater
Nice start and excellent choice of boat. Are you lofting this :?: In one of the pic"s it looks like you lofted the stations.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:16 am
by Dougster
Boy that is a beauty. I'm amazed at how many stations it has; almost looks like a more traditional plank over frames build at the moment.

Dougster

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:25 am
by reefie
Thanks all for your welcoming, kind and supportive words. Its a big project that will require a huge amount of devotion to see it through.

Yes Topwater I lofted the station dimensions as the plans gave measurements to the outside of the hull, and these had to offset by the hull thickness. I did this on a sheet of ply, and then took the new offset dimensions and transferred these to the actual molds. Also, the plans sheet can be referred to as required throughout the build.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:57 pm
by Fuzz
Welcome to the fun Reefie :D Looking at the transom mold this is going to be an inboard? Do you have the power picked out yet?

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:20 pm
by peter-curacao
That looks like a super clean start

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:04 pm
by TomW1
Welcome to the Forum and a great start on your LB26. Keep the pictures coming. Sure would like to follow this build to the end.

Tom

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:13 am
by reefie
Welcome to the fun Reefie :D Looking at the transom mold this is going to be an inboard? Do you have the power picked out yet?
Hi Fuzz, yes I'm going for an inboard shaft drive. JM has recommended a Nanni 200Hp diesel, but they only do a 205Hp now (which is on a Toyota block), or maybe go with a Volvo Penta D3 220Hp diesel. Both of these should be super economical, with a top speed of around 30+mph. I am more interested in safety,reliability, comfort, and economy as opposed to just pure speed.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:26 am
by glossieblack
reefie wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:13 am I'm going for an inboard shaft drive. JM has recommended a Nanni 200Hp diesel, but they only do a 205Hp now (which is on a Toyota block), or maybe go with a Volvo Penta D3 220Hp diesel. Both of these should be super economical, with a top speed of around 30+mph. I am more interested in safety,reliability, comfort, and economy as opposed to just pure speed.
Very interesting. I hadn't realised that with sufficient horses, LB26 could be a 30+mph planing hull. I've been thinking of her as a 50hp 18mph semi-displacement one.

Great project. Looking forward to seeing how you're going to fashion her above that beautiful hull. :D

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:37 pm
by Fuzz
Before you pick a diesel make sure and look at the parts cost. I have a Volvo, Cat, Cummins and Perkins. The Volvo is far and away the most expensive to work on. But just like outboards the dealer will make or brake the deal.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:53 pm
by fallguy1000
I have the plans for the LB26. I really like the boat tons. I think the most memorable thing about the oshow build was the fairing work. He said he could have avoided some with better prep. I don't know if that means a skeleton or what

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:54 pm
by bateau-webmaster
First LB26 Thread! Added to build threads page! 8)

Nice work on the frames, is that blue painters' tape to keep the fillets from sticking?

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:20 pm
by peter-curacao
bateau-webmaster wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:54 pm is that blue painters' tape to keep the fillets from sticking?
That's how all the pro's do it :wink:

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:01 am
by reefie
Before you pick a diesel make sure and look at the parts cost. I have a Volvo, Cat, Cummins and Perkins. The Volvo is far and away the most expensive to work on
Thanks for the heads-up Fuzz. I have have been looking at other makes, but there are few choices to keep within JM's specified weights and hp range.

is that blue painters' tape to keep the fillets from sticking?
Hi Jamie, Peter is correct - it is blue masking tape and it's to stop the epoxy sticking to the temp molds.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:26 am
by glossieblack
Reefie, for what it's worth, my Australian experience over the years has been that there is little difference in routine nmaintenance parts costs between Volvo Penta, Beta/Nanni (Kubota) and Yanmar. I stress I'm talking maintenance parts here, not rebuild parts, which I suspect Fuzz may be referring to.

When I recently repowered on my sailboat, working back from the boat's specs, it came down to a choice between these three, and I went with the Volvo.

For the ST21 I'm currently building, I've gone for a bespoke Australian assembled WM Diesel marinised Kubota, because JM's ST21's called for a bespoke engine gearbox combo, WM Diesel could deliver, and they do high quality marinised Kubotas.

If I was building an LB26 in Oz, I'd go with whatever reputable brand that met JM's specs most cost effectively.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:41 am
by reefie
Thanks for the diesel engine info Glossie.

With regard to your Kubota engine, just thought I let you know that I run the same 3 cylinder diesel engine in 3 Kubota mowers, and I have clocked up more than 3000 hours in each with no mechanical issues whatsoever - they are bulletproof! I'm sure you will be extremely happy with your engine.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:37 pm
by Fuzz
While I have no love for Volvo diesels I am sure they are good as they sell a bunch of them world wide. When I was building fishing boats I could buy Volvo's with OME status. As an original equipment manufacturer, boat builder, I could buy a Volvo at a deeply discounted price. You as the builder might be able to do likewise. If so it will save you a pretty penny.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:46 am
by reefie
Thanks for the tip Fuzz, I'll have to look into it when the need for motorization draws closer.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:30 pm
by fallguy1000
I don't know a lot about diesel marine engines, but I have a 76 hp Perkins lawnmower that only stopped running one time and that was an electric wire. Had nothing to do with the engine or its parts and the hour meter stopped at 4500 or so. Always kind of fun when the motor outlasts the hour meter, well, within reason. It burns a little oil and it has a leak here or there, but it cuts grass, lotsa grass.

Honestly, if it were me, I'd take JM's advice on the motor.

I am taking my designer's recommend on the motor. I even tried to tweak the concept and make it bigger, etc. In the end, he had already picked the best motor for me.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:19 am
by reefie
Hi guys,

A little more progress to report.

I have decided to strip plank the transom and bottom plates in timber. The timber I'm using is very light - approx 260kg/m3. I guess this will add about 30 to 40kg to the overall boat weight, but will make construction much easier. It also has far greater compressive strength than Divinycell H80.

I have also done the sheer clamp with timber too as it will make adding the rub rail easier.

However, I will do the topsides, internals and superstructure with Divinycell H80.

Image



Image

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:58 am
by PNWcx25
Wow, nice very clean!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:43 am
by Jeff
Nice work Reefie!!! Jeff

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:01 pm
by pee wee
Those pretty lines already show, that should be a nice looking hull when it's done. It looks like you work very neatly!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:22 am
by reefie
Thanks for your flattering comments fellas.
Its always good to start off a project with high expectations and standards - I just hope I'm able to maintain these aspirations through to the end of the build :wink:
Those pretty lines already show, that should be a nice looking hull when it's done
Pee Wee, I must admit that I took a nice glass of wine up to the shed and sat there admiring the beautiful hull shape too. I cant wait to start laying some planks.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:02 am
by glossieblack
Reefie,

I'm interested and impressed by your choice between Divinycell, strip planking and timber clamps. I like the no nonsense approach - whatever gets the job done strongly and easily is chosen.

It's already obvious that this is a build thread to follow and learn from. Thanks for documenting your logic and progress. That LB26 is about the prettiest design on this forum, if the above deck structure is got right, is a bonus. :D

What part of the wild west are you in?

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:50 am
by topwater
How much will the lamination schedule change for the wood strip portion of the build.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:01 pm
by reefie
What part of the wild west are you in?
I live along the southern coast, just east of Albany.
How much will the lamination schedule change for the wood strip portion of the build.
The lamination schedule stays the same.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:26 am
by reefie
Well I have made a start on the planking the bottom plates. I have completed dry planking the port side and made a start on the starboard side.

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Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:27 am
by Eric1
That is dedication!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:11 am
by Jeff
Reefie, beautiful work!!! Please continue to document well this build as it already has a large following!! Jeff

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:53 am
by fallguy1000
Is there any shear concerns with all those direction changes? I think you better check with JM to see if you need to modify the lamination schedule.

I had considered building the LB26 and own the plans and thought about building it in cedar strip even. I don't have to deal with the curves, but I figured there would be more longitudinal planking than transverse.

My apologies if I'm just silly wrong.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:32 am
by fallguy1000
Sorry JM, I had recall of page 15 drawing of the book which is the plywood version. There are lots of longitudinal lines is all and I assumed strip version would be similar. Of course when you go to actually build, things change greatly.

All the best.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:19 pm
by jacquesmm
I think the specs for each material are at the end of the building notes, I"ll check on Monday.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:12 pm
by MrPaul
Jeff wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:11 am Reefie, beautiful work!!! Please continue to document well this build as it already has a large following!! Jeff
X2 this is a very interesting build!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:36 pm
by fallguy1000
I mean no disrespect. None. Mine is a question based on intuition and not fact. I am not second guessing a designer/naval architect.

Plans call out the materials, but do not specify the direction of the strips. However, the reason I mentioned it is there is always a shear concern at bondlines, and it would increase if you run the strips across the hull bottom and change direction suddenly as he did especially from longitudinal to transverse. But the frames are not here, so I do not know for sure. I would have tried to strip it as the plywood was laid is all. Those bonds would absolutely be weaker than the sections themselves, so when he said the lamination was the same; I had to ask. I would have expected more of a weave to change direction.

It is just a question, and such a beautiful boat should not fail due to a construction error.

And this boat is going to get abused in that Austrailian wind, so it better be strong!

This is my last post on the question.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:02 pm
by Browndog
Looks great! Love it already. Just another great example of Aussie boat porn.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:27 pm
by peter-curacao
Those tile spacers/levelers are a great idea for this purpose 8)

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:59 pm
by reefie
Is there any shear concerns with all those direction changes? I think you better check with JM to see if you need to modify the lamination schedule.
Thanks for your question Fallguy, but I have no concerns with the strip planking orientation. In the lamination schedule, it is not the core material that provides the full structural hull strength, but it is there to provide a cold molded hull form on which the glass laminations are laid. It is the glass laminations which contribute to the overall hull strength, and the glass lamination schedule for the LB26 is very robust. For example, the bottom plates have a combination of alternating weave (biaxial, double bias, and CSM) totalling 84oz (2700 GSM) externally, and 50 oz (1600GSM) internally (plus additional layers at the keel and chines).

Also, with the method I have chosen, I will be gluing in between the planks (the 3mm space) with 50:50 cabosil and q-cel mixture. This further increases the overall strength by essentially inserting epoxy "I" beams into the overall lamination.

However, and notwithstanding what I have said above, if JM determines that my strip plank orientation needs revision, I will modify the layout.

As a side note, I started off laying the planks longitudinally, but with the complex LB26 hull shape, I could not get the planks to lay this way without edge set and/or snapping the planks - hence the layout I have gone with.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:42 pm
by fallguy1000
The intermediates are very wise for this hull. The other build I watched; the builder had to fair like crazy.

What wood is that?

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:13 am
by TomW1
Remember Fallguy that in Jacques designs that the plywood is only the form of the boat. The fiberglass provides the strength.

Tom

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:59 am
by reefie
Those tile spacers/levelers are a great idea for this purpose 8)
Yeah Pete they work great at getting the planks laying fair.
What wood is that?
Kiln dried DAR 15mm X 42mm Kiri

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:42 am
by fallguy1000
I will only add, since JM hasn't had the last word, that shear forces work when the boat is say coming down with all its weight off a wave and the front of the boat, for example, plunges into the next wave.

The shear forces can impact a boat, especially if the boat has an area of significant strength near an area of deficit. That would be stringers ending or bulkheads near a place with any potential deficit.

In a core boat, not all of the strength comes from the skins. So if you introduce a weakness to the core, say by making it thinner at the bow for an odd example, you would increase the potential for shear. In fact, in that example, shear forces would probably result in mechanical fatigue and failure.

As for edge set, I understand it. Sometimes using narrower boards addresses it. Sometimes not and you have to make a direction change. When you do a direction change; the longer the bond; the better, so for LB26; you might go a few frames up and stair step the curve, or put the join on a 45 instead of transverse. Note: I originally thought from one picture they were transverse, but now they look on 45s in another frame. Since reefie hasn't glued anything, better to make sure now!

It is the stuff of naval architects and engineers and not me. I have just never seen it done this way (again, I am referring to what appeared to be transverse, but are actually closer to 45s on another picture)

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:34 pm
by reefie
Hi Fallguy,

The point you are raising would be an issue in "traditional" boat building techniques where the strength of the hull is derived from the planks and their orientation to each other in the overall shape of the hull - coupled with the framing of course. However, we are not building the LB26 using the "traditional" method - we are using modern composite construction.

With composite construction, in raw terms it is the thickness of the core that provides the "stiffness" of the panel, and it is the glass laminations that provide the "strength". Notwithstanding that the internal framing (including their spacing) is also a critical factor.

Also, as you have noted, none of the plank directional changes are less than 45 degrees.

Similarly, do you see a concern with a panel that has been formed by joining multiple 8 foot sections together to form a longer panel? This technique would also introduce 90 degree transverse joints to the hull core ...as is the case with the panels for your hull - do you see a problem with this?. No... because this is a valid construction technique with modern composite construction. In fact, it is specifically listed in the construction book of the LB26 for the bottom plates to use full foam sheets (or plywood) for the aft flatter sections, and to butt join them together with glue (also creating transverse joints) and do the forward section of the bottom plate with foam (or plywood) strips also butt joined with glue to the rear panel (creating even more transverse joints).

Therefore, and with all due respect, I see no concern with what I have done... but if you do, you should also be concerned with your hull.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:10 pm
by Browndog
Your doing great work. The planking is not an issue at all. I can’t wait to see what it looks like once you have glass on it and begin fairing. Mighty sexy is my guess. It will give us all something to dream about. Build on! Thank you for inspiring me. I still have in the back of my mind a CS 30 down the road.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:04 am
by fallguy1000
Mine was mainly a misinterpretation of the photos. One photo especially is something of an illusion. I called out my mistake in the prior post. And I said transverse; they are not.

Composite panel joins with plane changes or chines usually have extra reinforcement. It was hard to tell if you have plane changes in the same pic. And the joins must be stronger than the core as well. I don't know how DAR and the glue compare either. If you use a glue weaker than the core; it would be a problem, again especially near internal strength. This is ditto all composite or strip. I believe the best glue for you would be cab, ballooms, and flox, but I don't like the flox components roughness here. If you only use balloons; not sure that is right either as I don't know the numbers. It is very interesting leaving a 3mm gap. I had figured you'd need to edge glue as you go, which is damn slow. So, again very interested in the method.

And the reason I'm watching close is like the method you chose; not to criticize strip building. I think building in wood would be very enjoyable. More so with the open glue method.

How are you going to keep the glue from squeezing out? Perhaps I missed that, too.

If you weren't 6000? miles away, I'd be a grunt for you.

All the best. It is my favorite JM design.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:23 am
by reefie
Thanks everyone for your encouraging and motivational words... I really do appreciate it :D
I am very much enjoying this project and watching, as each plank is laid, the LB26 slowly reveal her beautiful hull shape.
I think the extra effort put into getting the panels laying fair and true at this point will pay dividends later when it comes time to bogging and fairing - which I am under no illusion will be a pretty big job for a boat this size.

How are you going to keep the glue from squeezing out?
Its a matter of adjusting the glue consistency. I will be using empty caulking tubes filled with the epoxy glue mix, and It helps to have an extra person on the other side of the panel to scrape off any excess that squeezes through and also fill in any gaps.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:30 am
by peter-curacao
Looking at the way you working at this early stage I'm almost sure this is gonna be a AAA boat inside and out 8)

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:32 am
by reefie
Thanks Pete... I sure hope so.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:14 am
by jacquesmm
I missed part of this discussion since it is in the non-technical section. However, it has turned in a technical discussion about strip planking. I missed some of that discussion. The first time I saw the pictures, I thought it was a plug for a mold.

The plans show a choice of 3 different cores. The standard one, the one I prefer, is foam sandwich.
The two other ones are plywood core or cedar strip.
Note that it is strip plank, not cold molded over strips.
What I see in the pictures is an hybrid between strip and plywood.
I suppose that the core is made from plywood strips? 12 mm?
The building notes and the study plans show how I expect the plywood strips to be cut, all lengthwise and only the areas with compounded surfaces are cut with slits: tumblehome and bow flare. The middle of the hull is made from uncut plywood panels.
For strip planking, the notes do not show the orientation of the strips but I mention bead and cove. Bead and cove is only built with lengthwise strips.
What I see in the picture is a method that I have used for plugs. Molds are pulled from those plugs.
It is also used in some variations of cold molded wood, with thin layers of wood and alternating directions.

I have never seen or used a wood core made that way for a hull. The gaps between strips look wide but they will probably be filled with a wood flour putty. It is unusual but I am almost certain that it will work if the gaps are properly filled and if the lamination schedule is respected. The glass skins in this boat are thick for it's size and speed.
The only risk I see is failure of the epoxy glue in the wide gap between strips. Be certain that the glue does not starve for resin there.
I would use wood flour as a filler, not silica and Qcells.

One more thing: I went quickly through the thread and want to add something about the engine. There is a Yanmar around 200 HP based on the same Toyota block than the Nanni diesel. I prefer that one to the Volvo.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:30 am
by peter-curacao
jacquesmm wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:14 am
I suppose that the core is made from plywood strips? 12 mm?
Jacques as I understood it's Kiln dried DAR 15mm X 42mm Kiri

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:55 pm
by jacquesmm
It looks like Kiri is some type of paulownia, close to red cedar, a little lighter, a little weaker but that is compensated for by the extra thickness.
I still wonder why the weird strip direction but it should work.
Thanks Peter.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:04 pm
by reefie
JM, thanks for your time to respond to the discussion on this thread.

Yes, Kiri is also called Paulownia.
It is a strip planking material often used in preference to cedar in Australia.
This "dry planking" method is a building technique that is successfully used here. The gaps are completely filled with resin/glue from one side to the other creating a fully bonded core.
The glass lamination schedule will be followed.
Thanks for your advice regarding the ~200hp Yanmar diesel, I will pursue this power plant when that time arrives.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:41 pm
by MrPaul
Any news or updates on this boat :?:

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:08 am
by BarraMan
What an interesting build! Trust an Aussie to do their own thing.

1) I know one Aussie who took a JM plan, up-scaled it 10% and built their own ideas into a side console bass boat style with front and rear casting decks instead of the forward control cockpit style of the original plan. It has worked wonderfully well!

2) I know another Aussie who took another of JM designs and is building a amazing diesel/electric dual powered masterpiece that looks like it will also work a treat.

3) And now I know of another Aussie who has taken another of JM designs and is building it using a build method made recently popular Down Under by another designer (also an Aussie).

This is all part of the complicated answer to the question, "Why would you want to build your own boat"!

All the best with the build - I will be watching with great interest.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:24 am
by glossieblack
Well said Lee, go Aussie innovation, go reefie, and thank you JM! :D

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:00 am
by reefie
Well guys, to tell you the truth I have been doing a fair bit of procrastinating as of late. I couldnt get past JM's comments that "it should work" and "its unusual but I'm almost certain it will work...". I just couldn't go forth and continue to build a boat based on the words "should" and "almost", so I have removed the planks I began laying on the starboard bottom plate and relaid them in the more conventional orientation. This side is now finished and it looks right. I have now started redoing the port side. I will post some pics when I have finished.

I guess I should mention to Fallguy that while all this has been happening I have been chowing down on a few hearty pieces of humble pie, and I apologise for my previous rant. I guess I can be a stubborn bastard sometimes. But he was right withe regard to the plank orientation. As they say, "a mistake is nothing more than a chance to revise your strategy - but just remember to keep you eye on the goal' :).

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:04 am
by Jaysen
Cool response R.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:20 am
by jacquesmm
Good decision. The longitudinal strips is the proven, accepted method.
I have used various layout schemes on plugs but never on a boat hull.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:33 am
by fallguy1000
I can't wait to see the approach. That boat, like I said, is my favorite.

And I'm very interested in the gluing. Just this weekend I glued two 33' panel joins which would be similar; although the joins vary dimensionally. I struggled to keep the glue from moving. I used 1:1:1:1 epoxy, cabosil, balloons, cotton. Taped the inside with gorilla ship tape. Then went and pulled the tapes and leveled the glue both sides. Part of me wonders if you'd be best off laminating the boat and then flipping to glue the joins. Just because chasing glue isn't fun, and you could push it in nicer from one side and wet out the kiri better before pushing in glue, but I am just guessing. The glue joins facing ceilinn n floor might be trouble. It seems the driest glue moves if you have balloons in it.

I would do some tests in joints that are open on a table and make all my mixes by weight and not volume if I were you. Volumetric measure of wood flour and cabosil are always a bit variable and you don't want that.

Maybe you have some down under tricks.

All the best to you. When that boat hits 3 meter waves; you'll be glad you revised, rather than wonder.

On my project, had a lot of trouble getting my vac table panels right. They cost me 400 in labor each and I have 3 on the scrap pile. They can be used for internals. Could have used them; didn't want a delam failure. Doing your own QA is tough friend. Asking other people helps a lot. I asked a vendor on my panels and he said 'use elsewhere in the build'.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:32 pm
by MrPaul
Really glad to hear you're back at it :D . I was enjoying the build and I'm sure the rest of us were as well. Please keep posting.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:23 pm
by cape_fisherman
Fallguy had some very valid concerns in the planking conversation. I am very happy you brought them up. Indeed it could have turned a very beautiful hull into a dangerous boat to push off from the dock on. Changing the planking is the best idea, and I'm so glad the OP went in that direction.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:53 am
by reefie
Thanks guys, I'm feeling much more comfortable now that I have finished changing the bottom plate planking orientation.


Image



I have also marked out the position of the prop shaft and rudder shaft and cut holes in the temp frames to make aligning these much easier later on.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:13 am
by BarraMan
Much more better!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:56 am
by glossieblack
About the most evocative hull image I've seen on this forum. Go Reefie! :D

Image

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:12 am
by Eric1
Nicely Done!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:34 am
by peter-curacao
Sweet! 8)

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:15 am
by cape man
I agree. Evocative!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:48 am
by cape_fisherman
Very nice! I'm so glad you stripped it properly.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:49 am
by jacquesmm
That looks and feel much better.
Good decision.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:11 am
by pee wee
It had to be a difficult decision to undo part of what was done, but it has to feel good to eliminate future doubts about strength. It looks good, too! Well done!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:49 am
by Dougster
Been following this thread a while and admire your skills and decision to regroup. That just plain looks right.

Dougster

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:23 pm
by willg
Reefie, she's a thing of beauty, grace and strength. We will all enjoy following along with your build.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:41 pm
by fallguy1000
Looks great.

I really am looking forward to hearing about the glue up. I think I will be tough and can't wait to hear about how you manage to do it. Hope you share your experiences; good or bad.

The method is intriguing because if you have ever built a strip boat; you know that gluing strips is a time consuming and slow task that can take more than a month or two as you only have so many clamps, so much patience to spread glue, etc. I think I spent about 5 weeks doing a strip canoe planking. I used double clothespin clamps and had about 50 clamps, so was limited by the available clamps, days available, etc.

Thanks for any replies.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:44 pm
by fallguy1000
message deleted

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:03 pm
by glossieblack
Reefie, how long are the kiri planks that you've been using?

And where you able to retain most of the longitudinal planking from your first layout? Or did you remove most of it and start over again? I can't see many joins in the latest pics.

What an interesting build you're treating us too. 8)

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:27 am
by reefie
Thanks fellas. It was a tough decision to undo all that work, but I'm glad I did. The funny thing was I was kind of aware that I was going down the wrong path and I guess that's why all the procrastination. But all good now.

Fallguy - I certainly can not take credit for this technique, I came across it from a well known Australian designer (I don't know of the political correctness of naming him on this forum, but a google search will find him). The glue up fairly time consuming but pretty straight forward.
Thanks for your picture. My plan was to run a another kiri strip for the built-in spray rail and the first plank on the side plate, then switch to the Divinycell H80.

Glossyblack - I guess I recovered and reused about 80% of the planks. The kiri planks are about 4.2m long. Each bottom plate is 20 + or - planks wide by about 7.5 m long. I scarfed together 10 full length planks for each side from the recovered planks, and also managed to re-use the other longer planks. I probably used about 4 X 4.2 new planks per side in the re-do.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:32 pm
by glossieblack
reefie wrote: Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:27 am
Glossyblack - I guess I recovered and reused about 80% of the planks. The kiri planks are about 4.2m long. Each bottom plate is 20 + or - planks wide by about 7.5 m long. I scarfed together 10 full length planks for each side from the recovered planks, and also managed to re-use the other longer planks. I probably used about 4 X 4.2 new planks per side in the re-do.
Thanks for the detailed answer Reefie.

If I'm understanding it correctly, you removed all the bottom planking, not just some of it, and redid it from scratch.

If this is right, a lot of work, but the end result is a quality one. 8)

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:21 am
by reefie
Hi Glossyblack,

Sorry for the delay in replying - been a bit busy as of late.
You are correct - I removed all the bottom plate planks and relaid them from scratch.
I'm just chipping away with the glue-up when I find a free an hour or so here and there.
I have no time line for the build, I just want to enjoy the journey (which I an very much doing) without it becoming a chore.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:54 am
by glossieblack
reefie wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:21 am I have no time line for the build, I just want to enjoy the journey (which I an very much doing) without it becoming a chore.
The only smart way to approach it.

It's been my espoused approach, but a couple of times I've trapped myself by setting an arbitrary milestone, only to discover hat 've turned the build from a pleasure into a burden.

Hope you're better able to retain perspective. :D

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:01 am
by Fuzz
Wise man Glossieblack is :wink:
You have a whale of a job looking at you in the face. As long as you do not have hired help or something else pushing you to make a deadline then take your time and enjoy it. If you push and burn out it will end up another backyard broken dream :help: Plug along and eat a bite when hungry and one day the elephant will be eaten :wink:

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:45 am
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:01 am Wise man Glossieblack is :wink:
You have a whale of a job looking at you in the face. As long as you do not have hired help or something else pushing you to make a deadline then take your time and enjoy it. If you push and burn out it will end up another backyard broken dream :help: Plug along and eat a bite when hungry and one day the elephant will be eaten :wink:
I too have realized setting deadlines are pointless when building a boat. Far to many things can delay your work. Take all the time you need to live, in the end the boat will be built.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:05 am
by peter-curacao
Eric1 wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:45 am
I too have realized setting deadlines are pointless when building a boat. Far to many things can delay your work. Take all the time you need to live, in the end the boat will be built.
I fully agree there my friend 8)

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:23 am
by reefie
Its great to so many of us are on the same page... we must be amongst the most contented boat builders on the planet 8)

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:23 pm
by BarraMan
I figured I would knock my boat build over in 12 mths post-retirement. :D

Four (4) years later it is still not completely finished - but its getting there! :lol:

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:09 am
by reefie
Bit of an update on where I am up to.
On the last bit of gluing between the planks on the starboard bow section before removing the screws and filling in the remainder of the gaps.

Image



Image

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:39 am
by pee wee
You sure work neatly! Looking good.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:45 am
by Jeff
I agree with Pee Wee, very nice work!! Jeff

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:41 am
by icelikkilinc
with all those strips, your attention to detail will pay off in the long run as less sanding...
this is shaping up very nicely, great work.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:37 pm
by fallguy1000
Glue mixture?

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:02 pm
by reefie
Thanks gents.
Fallguy the glue mix is 4:5 qcels:cabosil mixed into the resin until it is the consistency of peanut butter. You don't want it to be runny but you also don't want it to be too dry. Then I squeegee the mix into the gaps and scrape off the excess before going underneath and making sure the gap is totally filled and scraping off any excess there too. Pretty tedious but any job on a 26 footer is.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:11 pm
by peter-curacao
reefie wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:02 pm Thanks gents.
Fallguy the glue mix is 4:5 qcels:cabosil mixed into the resin until it is the consistency of peanut butter. You don't want it to be runny but you also don't want it to be too dry. Then I squeegee the mix into the gaps and scrape off the excess before going underneath and making sure the gap is totally filled and scraping off any excess there too. Pretty tedious but any job on a 26 footer is.
It shrinks and you have to take a pass again,.......... ahhh you know that I know ....still 8)

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:24 pm
by reefie
Yes you are right Peter - it does shrink back a little. The plan is to quickly run down the glue lines with a Dremel for a mechanical bond and re-fill when doing the remainder of the gaps and screw holes - then a sand all over to fair the plates before glassing. However, at the end of the day, slight shrinkage wont really matter when you consider the amount of glass laminate that is required on the bottom plates.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:37 pm
by Aripeka Angler
Very nice work sir! I've been following your build, love the strip building process. :)

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:46 pm
by Eric1
Very cool way to build! 8)

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:02 pm
by icelikkilinc
reefie wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:24 pm Yes you are right Peter - it does shrink back a little. The plan is to quickly run down the glue lines with a Dremel for a mechanical bond and re-fill when doing the remainder of the gaps and screw holes - then a sand all over to fair the plates before glassing. However, at the end of the day, slight shrinkage wont really matter when you consider the amount of glass laminate that is required on the bottom plates.
That’s a good plan and make sure to follow the same path after flip. I would pay attention to make sure no gaps as Peter suggests. While glassing you dont want trapped air so glassing over any area with low spots might carry risks.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:36 pm
by fallguy1000
Fairing before glasswork much easier as you are sanding a bit of wood. long as you don't dwell on wood should be good. Oshows build required gallons of fairing compound and he regretted glassing it before it was fair(er).

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:39 pm
by Browndog
Looking good! Love looking at your pictures.

Very few people build boats the size of yours. It is a major undertaking and you should feel good about the great progress you’ve made so far.

Keep up the good work!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:02 am
by DAYTRIP
Beautiful work! I really love the lines of this hull. She will be plenty strong with that strip planking.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:50 am
by reefie
Cheers fellas.
Still slowly chipping away at it. Work has been getting in the way but managing to get in the odd hour or two here and there.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:56 pm
by Jeff
Reefie, have a look at this link: https://boatbuildercentral.com/index.php

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:12 pm
by yofarfar
Thats a great looking boat. Very much looking forward to watching progress, If you have the time build two. I'll take the other one.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:51 am
by reefie
Jeff wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:56 pm Reefie, have a look at this link: https://boatbuildercentral.com/index.php
8)


yofarfar wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:12 pm Thats a great looking boat. Very much looking forward to watching progress, If you have the time build two. I'll take the other one.
Hahaha - think it will take all my energy just to build one!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:15 am
by fallguy1000
How goes it Reefie? What is the density of your glue? Is it lighter or heavier than water?

Can you build the LB without flotation foam if you have a watertight or two?

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:11 pm
by jacquesmm
Any boat can be built without buoyancy foam but I suppose you want to know if she will float? Maybe, it depends on the volume of the closed compartments you describe.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:48 pm
by Fuzz
It is my understanding boats over 20 foot do not require it. I was really surprised when I went through my buddies 34 foot California. Not a single water tight bulkhead in the entire boat :help: Boats over 30 years old so I guess it works :doh:

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:05 pm
by fallguy1000
I was just asking reefie which way he was going with foam or watertights.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:07 am
by reefie
From a safety aspect, I will want the boat to be unsinkable.
My initial thought is this will best be achieved by incorporating closed cell pourable marine flotation foam in the build, but I am open to other ideas if another technique offers superior benefits.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:23 pm
by TomW1
Jacques can tell you where to put the 2 part closed cell form for upright flotation.

Tom

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:38 pm
by terrulian
It is my understanding boats over 20 foot do not require it. I was really surprised when I went through my buddies 34 foot California. Not a single water tight bulkhead in the entire boat :help: Boats over 30 years old so I guess it works :doh:
Modern sailboats don't have watertight bulkheads either. I'm not familiar with the rules on powerboats.
A thoughtful article can be found here as to why not: https://www.morganscloud.com/2013/08/19 ... bulkheads/

In the case of the breach in the hull of my boat in the Atlantic, the crack was immediately under the main bulkhead and would have eventually flooded both the forepeak and the saloon, so a watertight bulkhead would have been of no value. In addition, the volume of water that would enter the unprotected cabin would render the boat completely unmanageable and vulnerable to the swell. It is conceivable, but unlikely, that the hull would at that point provide a usable and safe habitat until SAR arrived.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:52 pm
by fallguy1000
My boat has watertights, but as an annoying LB26 plan owner; I had wondered if LB26 could be built with watertights. Perhaps impractical...

It is a real beauty; I am super glad to see a build.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:21 am
by reefie
Well Christmas and New Year has come and gone. Hope it was a rewarding and relaxing time for all. We were inundated with visitors over this period, so to avoid being antisocial, no work was done on the boat while they were here. I still have my mother-in-law here, but I have been a bit naughty and snuck up to the shed a few times to put in an hour or two here and there - luckily I think I got away without offending her or my wife :wink:

Well I have managed to fill all the gaps in the bottom plates and begin work on the built-in spray rails. It wont be long and I will be able to start planking up the topside plates with Divinycell. I have mixed emotions about this phase; on the one hand I am really looking forward finalising the hull, but I have never used foam before so I am a bit apprehensive too.

Anyway, here are some pics for those of us who love to see photos of each others builds.





Started planning down the port chine - I'm about halfway from the bow to the stern. I am yet to do the starboard side.


Image







The planned down port forward section.


Image





The aft chine section yet to be planned down.


Image



Happy building :D

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:28 am
by Jeff
Reefie, Happy New Year and welcome back!! Beautiful work!! Jeff

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:26 am
by glossieblack
8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) .....

Do you know SV Sonja from Port Augusta WA?

Image

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:14 am
by fallguy1000
Thing looks great!

Are u cutting strips of foam?

I was able to safely table saw cut it-corecell M 5#.

I use the hot glue gun like a tack welder, too.

Dan

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:02 am
by reefie
Thanks guys.

Do you know SV Sonja from Port Augusta WA?
Hi GB, no I don't... but do mean from Port Augusta SA, or Augusta WA?

Are u cutting strips of foam?
Yes Dan I will, but I still havn't decided on the width yet - I'm thinking 50mm wide to make for a fair surface on the tumblehome and bow flair.
Also thinking of tapering the long edges and butting each plank up to the next with the groove facing outwards and then and filling this with glue mix?

Cheers,
Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:29 am
by glossieblack
Ooops. Augusta WA. In the new marina.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:45 am
by reefie
No I'm not familiar with her.
Googled SV Sonja but could not find any reference or pictures.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:52 am
by fallguy1000
Not sure what you mean by tapering the long edges, but I say no if I understand.

I think if you cut everything square, you'd leave nice gaps for the necessary glue joins. It is very weird; but gaps are good here in a foam build. Getting the edges to set flat to each other is the real trick. I think 50mm would be good in the tricky areas, but majorly silly narrow in others. I'd even consider trying some kerf cuts to allow for relief, then the edges would stay together. In the bow flare, for example, you could kerf on the inside, see? Then you'd be making your foam like scrim, but better. You could get a narrow tablesaw blade and use less glue. The beauty of the kerf cuts is you could make a long piece and then kerf it as needed and the only penalty would be not enough kerf which you would know immediately(this is why better than scrim). Of course, you are working the kerf blind, but good tablesaw guy can do that well. After the first piece, I do suppose the following section would need some edge tapering, so maybe I got to where you are already, but try kerfs and see if it helps keep the edges truer. I'd say you only need 1/8" or less of core, so be careful cutting and avoid running the hand overtop of blade.

If kerfs work, you could keep all the pieces more like 200mm.

Good luck. I am loving your work. Its gonna be a great boat.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:28 am
by Browndog
Looking really good! Those are some sexy lines on that there hull.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:35 am
by reefie
Thanks for the compliments Browndog - JM has designed a very beautiful boat.

Thanks for the input on foam planking Dan - I will take it on board and cut up a few different widths etc and see what works best.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:57 am
by fallguy1000
I also use a sureform for edge forming under 1/8”-works nice. They cost about ten bucks and mine paid for itself fast. Also works nice for any face tapering, like say bow joins.

I just put a pencil line on it and file away.

How are you going to bond the splash rail to the hullsides? If you put a rebate in you core lower panel; you could allow for a tape seam or two. I use an electric planer. I customized mine, but I have hundreds of feet. For you; you could set it for say 0.080. Or you could sureform it all and run 1/4 sheet sander. The idea is you won’t habe tons of fairing then.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:20 am
by Bogieman
Very nice!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:08 am
by reefie
Thanks Bogiman.

Fallguy, after mucking around with various widths and configurations, I settled on planks 100mm wide, with the upper edge bevelled to provide a gap for gluing. The planks touch on the inner face (except right at the bow) which will make it easier to fill without the glue squeezing right through (I hope).

The port side is complete (except for some battens where necessary), and I have made a start on the starboard side.

Image



Image



Image



Image



Happy building everyone!

Cheers,
Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:18 am
by peter-curacao
Wow I'm speechless 8) 8)

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:58 am
by terrulian
Wow I'm speechless 8) 8)
Me and you both!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:18 am
by Jaysen
Dang.

This is boat porn.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:19 am
by Jeff
Reefie, really beautiful work!!! Jeff

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:21 am
by pee wee
I agree, that looks fabulous!

Silly question: why do the strips look different colors? It's foam, I believe. Isn't a stack of foam sheets uniform? Are you mixing brands or types?

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:12 am
by fallguy1000
I like the use of the tile spacers, is that your creation or someone elses? Or did I miss it in the JM book?

A great way to deal with edgesetting and squaring butt joins...technically, the plastic could be left in place; although you will probably remove and fill those areas on a second day.

I bought flexisander tools for fairing. I bought the long ones, but I think you could buy the 22" or just stick with autobody air sander set on low when you are ready. So, the one thing that was bugging me about oshow's build was he said he had tons of fairing to do, but I don't see how you could glass it up if it weren't pretty fair, so I expected some fairing to be done prior, but then do you use a different mixture underneath the glass? For my build anything going under the glass was done with milled fiber and cabosil at 50/50. I had to use great care, of course, to make sure sanding would be minimal as glass n cab is pretty hard. I could be wrong, but I think oshow used 8" wide strips and he had a lot of fill over the middle of each strip.

From here, the build is fun to look at and looks damn perfect.

Are you going to do any of the internals with foam? Or are you doing some work with plywood for screwbase?

Then, another question.. After you glass the outside, is the boat going to be stiff enough to flip or do you need to put some spanners across the gunwhales or leave some frames in? I would hate for the inside glass to not be finished and crack a glue joint when you do the turn, or for the boat to distort! My only experience is flipping a canoe in similar fashion and it was pretty flimsy with only 12 oz glass on the bottom and 6 oz on the sides. Distortion was not a concern as adding gunwhales creates a slightly different shape on a canoe. I forget the glassing on the exterior, but even with some 17oz; that is still rather flimsy when you add weight to it. Although in your build, the foam would probably allow some movement without breaking, only would it distort? I'm just wondering out loud if the boat can lose shape during the flip or crack. For my Skoota, I wanted to build over a male mold as a canoe, but was wisely advised against and went the other way. The guys said I would have to flip it with the frames inside or due to the 32' length the boat would distort...yours would get to be awful heavy with full frames. I just don't know if it matters even. For me, it did. For you, you could keep a couple of the frames inside if you needed I suppose.

Anyhow, like I said, really looking great.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:02 pm
by glossieblack
Inspirational work Reefie. :D Just love it. :D

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:10 pm
by Dutch1
Wow! Beautiful work! I can't wait to see the rest of this build.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:23 pm
by DAYTRIP
That is top notch! Really nice looking work. Excited to see what she looks like put together.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:32 pm
by OrangeQuest
terrulian wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:58 am
Wow I'm speechless 8) 8)
Me and you both!
8O

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:37 pm
by jacquesmm
fallguy1000 wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:12 am
Then, another question.. After you glass the outside, is the boat going to be stiff enough to flip or do you need to put some spanners across the gunwhales or leave some frames in?
You turn the boat with the jig in it and remove the jig when it is flipped.
Plus, my glass lamination schedule is heavier than on a standard strip planked hull. There will be no problem of stiffness if done that way.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:58 pm
by fallguy1000
Thanks Jacques. As you might know I am a plan owner of the LB26. I really love the boat and might build it if I get a chance when I'm older, so I am taking a keen interest in these builds. Keeping the jig in will make it a pretty heavy flip, but worth it to keep things right.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:53 pm
by Eric1
You are making foam building look easy! I see how building this way suits larger vessels! :)

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:39 pm
by poleposition
fallguy1000 wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:12 am
I bought flexisander tools for fairing. I bought the long ones, but I think you could buy the 22"......
Fallguy1000---what did you think of the flexisander, and do you think it was money well spent?

Congrats , Reefie---really a beautiful build that has been a joy to follow. I'm sure this design is one all of us have thought about at some time ( especially at my old age! )

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:55 pm
by Fuzz
I have a question for you guys. I see you talking about glueing the foam together and am wondering why?

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:43 pm
by fallguy1000
David-there has to be continuity between the planking or there would be a clear weakness. The glue is simply there to stop weakness. If you had no glues in between foam areas; the glassing would be insufficient. An all glass boat requires more layers than a foam boat, for example. The foam has a tensile strength; absence of foam or glue; none, or worse. Think about it. If you put two pieces of foam next to each other and left and inch gap; where would it break? All the foam gaps on the Skoota also have tapes; with the exception of those that are inside the laminates.

The Flexisander seems like a great product, but I might need to make customized handles for it. The handles only long enough for my bottom three fingers-so the index finger won’t be used. I called and I bitched. When you spend 200 for a took; you’d spend 220 for it if it had the right fn handle. A bad move by them to go cheap there and leave me solution searching. The short lived ego boost from man my hands are massive really ends up being truth when my hands are pretty average and the tool insufficient.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:59 am
by Fuzz
Thanks Fallguy. Another question, why would you then not be better off leaving a big enough gap to make sure you got glue/filler all the way through to the other side? Just trying to learn in case I get an urge and do something stupid :help:

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:03 am
by Eric1
Fuzz wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:59 am Thanks Fallguy. Another question, why would you then not be better off leaving a big enough gap to make sure you got glue/filler all the way through to the other side? Just trying to learn in case I get an urge and do something stupid :help:
+1

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:23 am
by reefie
Wow guys... thanks for all your kind words.

There have been a lot of questions raised (and I hope I don't miss answering any).

Pee wee - I don't know why the different colours in the planks. All the foam is Divinycell and it all has the same batch number stamped on each sheet. Each side of each sheet is a slightly different shade.

Fallguy - The tile spacers are my idea.
I have a homemade flexible manual longboard sander - but I will have a look at the Flexisander.
All the rest of the build will be foam core - including the sole. I have some high density foam sheets for inserts/backing where fixtures/fittings will be attached.
With regard to the flip, my plan was to remove most of the temp frames to reduce the weight and leave about 4 in strategic positions for support during the flip. Also, that's one of the reasons I made a substantial laminated rail on the top edge of the top plate (for rigidity). And, as JM has stated, the lamination schedule is very robust for the LB26. I guess time will tell when I get to that milestone.

Fuzz and Eric - the gap is a "V" shape which goes from the outside face to the inside face between the planks (and the planks just touch on the inside face) - so glue will extend right through.
The reason for gluing (apart from the structural strength reason Fallguy has alluded too) is the the planks are only held in place at the moment by the temp screws. I will need to glue the planks together so I can remove the screws and the top plate planks will stay in place and hold their shape against the mold for glassing (I cant leave the screws in place or they will be encapsulated in the glass/foam matrix).

Cheers,
Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:19 am
by fallguy1000
Fuzz wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:59 am Thanks Fallguy. Another question, why would you then not be better off leaving a big enough gap to make sure you got glue/filler all the way through to the other side? Just trying to learn in case I get an urge and do something stupid :help:
Filler oozing is a pita. I know, but Reefie knows more. I had filler ooze on me for the panel joins in the Skoota, but he had lots more panel joins on the hull bottom on the LB26. That V groove he did is just to help him remain sane! Still going to be some oozing through, but not all the glue you put into the joint falls out. Even a good drier, no slump formula will have trouble staying in an open gap.

If you have a blind hole; as long as you use enough force and multiple passes; the likelihood of air remaining in the bottom of the hole is low. The same is true for a v groove, but even easier than blind hole filling because the v is continuous and glue can move to either side.

The notion that gaps are good in foam construction is a bit of a fallacy. It is better to have two sheets of core bonded to each other, sure, but it is not good to have big gaps that are hard to glue. The vee Reefie uses is wise as are the tile spacers.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:44 am
by reefie
Well guys... I have finally finished planking the starboard topside plates and have just finished putting temporary battens on the port side ready for the glue-up - which I hope will happen over the next few weeks. The battens have helped pull the planks into alignment in-between the molds, and make the planks more rigid.

I know it may seem like progress is pretty slow to some, but I'm sure you all know how life tends to get in the way - and life is worth living!

I have learnt from my previous builds that a slow, steady and consistent progress is farm more successful than boom-bust fits of progress and procrastination. And besides, its a bloody big boat and every task is amplified accordingly.

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Happy building!!!
Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:53 am
by glossieblack
Lovely work Reefie! Build on. :D

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:24 am
by Fuzz
Really nice. I like how you did the bow. This is a great build to follow along.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:02 am
by cape man
Absolute genius. Love how you are doing this. Really treats the lines on her well.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:34 am
by OrangeQuest
It is always exciting when you post up about the progress you are making. I always go back a few pages to make sure I didn't miss anything and to read all the questions and advice. AND THE PICTURES! Beautiful curves and lines already, your skills do the design justice.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:45 pm
by Jeff
Just beautiful work Reefie!!! Jeff

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:16 pm
by fallguy1000
Good work on the battens; it will save you a lot of headaches. You can of course remove them after gluing each side, so they will slow you down, but NOT in the long run.

I did NOT use battens on the forward portion of my Skoota and the planking edgeset bit me. It threw off the join and I had to make a glass hill and fair it.

Smart build.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:23 pm
by willg
Reefie, your work is incredible. You are the man!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:36 am
by reefie
Thanks guys.

Fuzz, I did the bow as per JM's instructions in the building notes - don't know if you would be able to do it any other way with the curved bow sheer.

Started the glue-up. I am placing the glue in a clip-seal bag and cutting off a little bit of the corner to essentially make a "piping bag" and squeezing the mix into the "V" groove leaving it a little proud of the plank surface. I'm then using a squeegee to force it all the way into the groove and then scraping clean the excess. This technique is working a treat for this application.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:46 am
by fallguy1000
I tried the piping bag, but went to a trowel as the epoxy just kicks too fast in a massive ball and I wanted to push on the stuff anyway. For you, I might be inclined to masking tape or just plan on sanding, or I might just coat the foam and sand it all. The core does take some resin and it would not if it were already coated.

And I hated trying to get the stuff in the bag and so I keep my epoxy flat on a hawk for max gel times.

But it is really preference, and I was in most cases taping immediately over the fills where you won’t be..

Best of luck.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:13 am
by reefie
Well I have finally finished gluing/filling all the "V" grooves in the foam planks and I have sanded/faired the hull to the point where I am happy to start glassing :D - I just need to round of the keel, chines, and transom edges first.

All the thousands of screws have also been removed and the holes filled and faired - there are now no fasteners in the hull what-so-ever 8O


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Happy building everyone!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:18 am
by glossieblack
Take a bow Reefie.

Wonderful, beautiful building.

You're opening up a new chapter on this forum.

Compelling, fascinating. :D

Image

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:38 am
by OrangeQuest
glossieblack wrote: Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:18 am Take a bow Reefie.

Wonderful, beautiful building.

You're opening up a new chapter on this forum.

Compelling, fascinating. :D
Could not agree more. Great build!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:18 am
by fallguy1000
what fun to see this boat done well on the blog-thanks for sharing

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:54 am
by Jeff
Beautiful work Reefie!!!!! Jeff

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:11 am
by pee wee
What neat work on such a gorgeous hull! You are doing justice to a beautiful design.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:16 am
by Bogieman
Wow!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:02 am
by fallguy1000
the exposed divinycell will probably want to drink some resin...my corecell parts here failed when I didn't use enough; the core actually pulled resin from the fabric; among other things

for you; you could either precoat and sand the exposed divinycell, or just roll with it, but you might have varying adhesion between the glue lines and the dry core..how much?

for that boat, I'd probably do a once over with epoxy; resand, and then maybe you can spray adhesive the fabric?

glassing/overlapping the chine/sprayrail is going to be tricky without spray or vacuum; the little Whaler I put a 6 oz skin on I vac bagged and that was tricky; then I put peelply over it and that made it almost impossible as the pp started to move the fabric ...curious to see what you end up doing

any glass that has csm in it will not deform, but if you want it to deform; that can be a downside

for my outside glass work on the Skoota; I used 18 oz glass no csm and it moved magically like a snake for me; I understand you have a schedule from Jacques, but I'm not sure if that schedule was for gelcoat or not..or what you plan

good luck!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:53 am
by reefie
Thanks so much fellas for your kind words - I really do appreciate all your feedback, and it certainly inspires me to keep on building and posting pictures.

I must say it has been so magical watching this beautiful hull emerge from a pile of wood and foam.

Fallguy, the lamination requires epoxy (not gelcoat) and I am using West System.
I could not get 1708 and 1808, so I will be using alternating layers of 450gsm (12oz) double bias (+45-45) and (+90-90) to build up the overall required lamination weight - for example there will be 6 layers of 450gsm on the bottom plates to equate the 3 layers of 1708/1808 + 1 layer of 9oz. Both schedules will result in an overall combined lamination of 2700gsm (approx 80oz). Hope this makes sense.

Cheers,
Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:06 am
by fallguy1000
That fabric will be much easier than one with csm over the chine. Best of luck.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:42 am
by reefie
My wife and I glassed the first panel today :D .

We started with the port topside plate and the next in line will be the starboard topside plate. This is so we can then put the scaffolding back into position to do the bottom plates without risk of damaging the foam planks while we work.

We have never worked with foam before and it sure does require some wetting out. Our best friend for the glassing session was the heat gun - just a quick wave over the epoxy was enough the make it super runny and easy to push through the cloth with the consolidation roller and wet out the foam properly.

It took us 3 hours to do the panel.


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Happy building everyone!!!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:53 am
by glossieblack
That looks really nice Reefie, though I'm not sure what I'm looking at. :wink:

Have you glassed biax tape over the chine, then wide biax fabric over it and the rest of the topside panel?

Your work is so clean and neat, it's hard to tell!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:15 am
by reefie
Thanks GB.

It is just 450DB cloth extending up and over the chine flat and onto the bottom plate by 50mm.

The lamination schedule calls for one layer of 300DB tape at the chine, but as I could not get 1708 and 1808 from my glass supplier and I am going to lay alternating layers of 450DB +45/-45 and 0/90, I will exceed the lamination requirement at the chine and therefore will not need the single layer of tape here. However, I will be needing tape at the keel though.

Hope this makes sense.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:43 am
by Fuzz
holy cow! That is some clean glass work.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:45 am
by pee wee
Fuzz wrote: Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:43 am holy cow! That is some clean glass work.
Exactly what I was thinking, very clean, fully wet out, looks good.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:56 am
by fallguy1000
The schedule is a far better one than using 1708. That would have been harder to wetout. My earlier post was for the 1708, btw.

It would be super hard to prewet or hotcoat amd get it to roll out well. You might consider preheating the epoxy as a batch if you can work fast enough.

Looks great, but it’d be better done all in one day. Whew! That’d be really hard work. Are you planning to sand....pretty much have to if you don’t work wet on wet.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:58 am
by fallguy1000
You ought to consider a small strip of peelply at the chine/overlap. You could just pull it off and avoid sanding and cleaning the dusts each time...and it’d be easier to fair a bit. Dan

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:23 am
by willg
Reefie your work is very impressive. Might I ask what it is that you do to put bread on the table, or at least does it involve this level of precision? Or do you have other passions that you also put these skills into? I really have enjoyed your build - pretty sure we all have.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:45 am
by reefie
Thanks guys.

Dan, I keep an electric blanket wrapped around my epoxy drums (one of those with 3 heat settings) and I adjust the level according to the ambient temp. I do have some peelply (which I will use at times throughout the build), but seeing as I will have to sand the whole panel anyway, I came to the conclusion that peelply would be more of a hassle and make it more difficult to keep an eye on the chine area to make sure I don't get any air bubbles. I know it would be most desirable to do all the glassing wet-on-wet, but not possible with the size of the boat and the number of glass layers - so I thought I might as well take my time and and enjoy the process - knowing I will have to sand between each layer :? for a mechanical bond.

Willg, I am a farmer with a bad case of DIY-itis :lol:

Cheers, Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:24 am
by Bogieman
A real work of art so far.

Bogie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:09 am
by fallguy1000
reefie wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:45 am Thanks guys.

Dan, I keep an electric blanket wrapped around my epoxy drums (one of those with 3 heat settings) and I adjust the level according to the ambient temp. I do have some peelply (which I will use at times throughout the build), but seeing as I will have to sand the whole panel anyway, I came to the conclusion that peelply would be more of a hassle and make it more difficult to keep an eye on the chine area to make sure I don't get any air bubbles. I know it would be most desirable to do all the glassing wet-on-wet, but not possible with the size of the boat and the number of glass layers - so I thought I might as well take my time and and enjoy the process - knowing I will have to sand between each layer :? for a mechanical bond.

Willg, I am a farmer with a bad case of DIY-itis :lol:

Cheers, Reefie
Makes sense on the size of the work. And I understand the reservation on the ply. Gonna be lots of sanding. I think you could avoid sanding if you worked on green glass and maybe get better bonding even. The overlaps won’t be that much stronger interwoven. Just trying to help from 4-5000 miles away!

You could go 2-2 or 1-2-1 and eliminate 4-8 days of sanding and cleaning.

After literally thousands of hours on a sander; I do not find it cathartic.

All the best.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:41 pm
by Browndog
I’m with Fallguy. Sanding is not my cup of tea. I can’t wait for it to be over with. Anything to reduce the amount of sanding is preferable to me.

Your boat is looking really great. Congratulations and best wishes for continued success.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:53 am
by reefie
I'm with you guys... sanding is not my most favourite part of the build process too - but I have accepted that it is part of the process and will live with it.

Also, with regard to peel ply, many experts state that you still need to sand between layers to achieve adequate bond strength 8O

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:39 am
by icelikkilinc
All I can say from the pictures is you know what the freakin hell you are doing and all looks planned and executed to perfection.
Keep up the great work

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:05 pm
by fallguy1000
reefie wrote: Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:53 am I'm with you guys... sanding is not my most favourite part of the build process too - but I have accepted that it is part of the process and will live with it.

Also, with regard to peel ply, many experts state that you still need to sand between layers to achieve adequate bond strength 8O
Yeah, but it does sand easier somehow.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:54 pm
by willg
reefie wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:45 am
Willg, I am a farmer with a bad case of DIY-itis :lol:

Cheers, Reefie
I bet you've DIY'd some pretty cool stuff around the farm then. Thanks for sharing your build, it's a special one.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:25 pm
by peter-curacao
That's high quality all the way, very cool 8)

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:02 pm
by glossieblack
Reefie, how goes it?

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:39 pm
by Fuzz
Like Glossieblack asked. I have been thinking about your build and wondering how it is going.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:12 am
by reefie
GB and Fuzz,

Thanks for asking.
All is going well.
I am about 1/3rd of the way through the hull glass laminations.
Just taking it a a sustainable pace and enjoying the journey 8)
Also, been a little distracted with my home brewing too.

Cheers,
Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:57 am
by glossieblack
reefie wrote: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:12 am Also, been a little distracted with my home brewing too.
By inputs or outputs?

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:30 pm
by reefie
Hahaha
Inputs at the moment.
Been trying to build up my stocks.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:54 am
by glossieblack
Reefie, how's the glassing going? :D

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:13 pm
by fallguy1000
I have been hoping for an update as well.

My mouth waters when I see the pics.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:51 am
by reefie
Hi Guys,
Thanks for asking how progress has been going... well, I suppose you could say that my enthusiasm is as high as ever and I cant wait to get more glasssing done, but life has been getting in the way as of late. I have had a constant list of "must do" jobs around the house, the farm work has also been pretty intense too, and I have been enjoying my beer brewing. And the glassing requires me to devote a full day from set-up, actual glassing, and then trimming while green - and whole days have been in very short supply. Over winter, things should slow down and I will be able to pour more time into the build and bowl over the glassing and then get on with other aspects of the build. I never set out with and time frames in mind, and I dont feel guilty if progress halts for a while.

I regularly jump onto the forum and I am enjoying following the progress of everyone's build.


For those that are interested, I have a few photos of my latest beer brewing build - a "keezer" (which is essentially a modified freezer turned into a fridge) to keep my kegs in and I can have up to 4 seperate beers on tap :D

Image



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And here is my latest beer creation... a juicy, very tropical, deliciously fruity NEIPA

Image



Happy building everyone!!!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:57 am
by glossieblack
fallguy1000 wrote: Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:13 pm I have been hoping for an update as well. My mouth waters when I see the pics.
My mouth is watering seeing the latest pics. :lol: Cheers Reefie. :D

Image

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:41 am
by Jeff
Great photos Reefie!!! Jeff

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:53 am
by MrPaul
Its really hot here and that beer looks very refreshing.

The next generation of boat builders beer is almost as important as building the boat.....almost.

Looking forward to seeing some updates on the boat.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:15 am
by AtTheBrink
reefie wrote: Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:51 am Hi Guys,
Thanks for asking how progress has been going... well, I suppose you could say that my enthusiasm is as high as ever and I cant wait to get more glasssing done, but life has been getting in the way as of late. I have had a constant list of "must do" jobs around the house, the farm work has also been pretty intense too, and I have been enjoying my beer brewing. And the glassing requires me to devote a full day from set-up, actual glassing, and then trimming while green - and whole days have been in very short supply. Over winter, things should slow down and I will be able to pour more time into the build and bowl over the glassing and then get on with other aspects of the build. I never set out with and time frames in mind, and I dont feel guilty if progress halts for a while.

I regularly jump onto the forum and I am enjoying following the progress of everyone's build.


For those that are interested, I have a few photos of my latest beer brewing build - a "keezer" (which is essentially a modified freezer turned into a fridge) to keep my kegs in and I can have up to 4 seperate beers on tap :D

Image



Image



And here is my latest beer creation... a juicy, very tropical, deliciously fruity NEIPA

Image



Happy building everyone!!!
How do I order one of those "Keezerz"? That thing is awesome! And the beer looks great too. Oh! And your boat is beautiful , showing g some real skill and patience. The LB 26 is my favorite of all of the designs. T

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:02 am
by fallguy1000
I love hops.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:55 pm
by Grit19
Reefie,
This is an awesome build. I am new to the community and just discovered this thread. I definitely want to watch you finish this! Seeing at how clean and awesome everything that you have done to this point, I can only imagine how creative and professional the finished boat will look like.
Now I can't wait to see more update pictures. Understand you may be busy farming right now, but hopefully you can get some quality thinking time in with your home brew and know what all you will do when you get back to the build!
All the best,
Gib

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:54 pm
by Fuzz
Some of my best ideas have came while drinking brew of different sorts :D
Too bad many of them did not turn out like I was thinking they would :oops:

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:29 am
by reefie
AtTheBrink wrote: Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:15 am How do I order one of those "Keezerz"? That thing is awesome! And the beer looks great too. Oh! And your boat is beautiful , showing g some real skill and patience. The LB 26 is my favorite of all of the designs. T
Thanks for the compliment T. The "keezer" is definitely a DIY project - but there are many examples and build tutorials on YouTube.


fallguy1000 wrote: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:02 am I love hops.
Me too... and I am particularly fond of the newer flavouring/aromatic varietals :D


Grit19 wrote: Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:55 pm Reefie,
This is an awesome build. I am new to the community and just discovered this thread. I definitely want to watch you finish this! Seeing at how clean and awesome everything that you have done to this point, I can only imagine how creative and professional the finished boat will look like.
Now I can't wait to see more update pictures. Understand you may be busy farming right now, but hopefully you can get some quality thinking time in with your home brew and know what all you will do when you get back to the build!
All the best,
Gib
Thanks Gib. A few more weeks and I will have all the annual farm machinery maintenance jobs done and then I will be able to get back into the build. I am getting pretty excited to get into it again - and I will post pics when I do. In the meantime, I'll just have to be content following everyone else's build.


Fuzz wrote: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:54 pm Some of my best ideas have came while drinking brew of different sorts :D
Too bad many of them did not turn out like I was thinking they would :oops:
Hahaha... unfortunately Fuzz I also know that scenario all too well 8O

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:25 am
by reefie
Well guys I'm back into the build again.

Blew the cobwebs away by glassing in another lamination on the bottom plate over the weekend.
I now have 2 layers of 450gsm over both bottom plates (3 layers to go), and 1 layer of 450gsm over both topside plates (2 to go).


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Prepped the transom for another layer - this will make 4 layers of 450gsm (2 more after this). I hope to get this glassed in tomorrow or the next day.


Image



Sure feels good to be back at it again :D

Happy building everyone!

Cheers Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:23 am
by fallguy1000
Good news and best of luck.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:04 am
by jacquesmm
Very nice and done as it should be with the glass overlapping the edges.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:21 pm
by Jeff
Reefie, good to have you back on the build and she looks great!! Jeff

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:57 pm
by piperdown
Just went through all 21 pages and all I can say is WOW! 8O That's an incredibly neat and precise build you've got going!

Cheers from another beer brewer! (although I've been making way more mead than beer the past couple of years).

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:23 am
by glossieblack
Just lovely work Reefie. :D

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:37 am
by Fuzz
Just reread the whole thread yet again. This is a great build and I am really enjoying watching it happen.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:29 am
by OrangeQuest
Your whole build is just amazing!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:10 am
by reefie
Thanks guys for your kind words. I may not be smashing out the build, but I am really enjoying the satisfaction of doing each job to the best of my ability.

I managed to glass in the transom layer today.


Image



I'm going to be installing a bow thruster, so I have been trying to work out the location for the tube. Its got to be as deep below the waterline as practically possible, located in the (yet to be made) forward V berth locker, and with enough clearance from bulkheads and the base of the berth for the motor assembly - quite a puzzle 8O

Happy building,
Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:24 am
by fallguy1000
Is there an angle to the transom? It looks perfectly square to the bottom, but pictures can be so deceiving.

Your glasswork looks superb.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:30 am
by piperdown
fallguy1000 wrote: Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:24 am Is there an angle to the transom? It looks perfectly square to the bottom, but pictures can be so deceiving.

Your glasswork looks superb.
It does look deceiving but if you go back to page 3 (middle of page) it shows the angle when the transom was being put on.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:40 am
by fallguy1000
piperdown wrote: Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:30 am
fallguy1000 wrote: Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:24 am Is there an angle to the transom? It looks perfectly square to the bottom, but pictures can be so deceiving.

Your glasswork looks superb.
It does look deceiving but if you go back to page 3 (middle of page) it shows the angle when the transom was being put on.
Thanks. Isn't that funny how one picture looks so different?

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:05 am
by jacquesmm
Look at the study plans, the transom is angled:
https://bateau.com/studyplans/LB26_study.php?prod=LB26

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:24 am
by piperdown
fallguy1000 wrote: Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:40 am
piperdown wrote: Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:30 am
fallguy1000 wrote: Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:24 am Is there an angle to the transom? It looks perfectly square to the bottom, but pictures can be so deceiving.

Your glasswork looks superb.
It does look deceiving but if you go back to page 3 (middle of page) it shows the angle when the transom was being put on.
Thanks. Isn't that funny how one picture looks so different?
Yes it does! :D
The only reason I recalled the angle was because I found this build yesterday and went through all 21 pages :lol: I was impressed by the strip planks making the transom.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:11 pm
by reefie
Hi Fallguy,
Thanks for your concern, its just an optical illusion due to the camera angle - but its nice to know that you are keeping an eye out on my build and making sure that I'm on track - I appreciate it :)


Image



Cheers,
Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:46 pm
by cape_fisherman
Looks excellent!

With that long between glassing sessions, did you scuff the surface before commencing work?

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:43 pm
by reefie
cape_fisherman wrote: Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:46 pm Looks excellent!

With that long between glassing sessions, did you scuff the surface before commencing work?
Yeah... all sanded with 80 grit for a mechanical bond. It's taking about an hour and 8 to10 orbital discs per plate.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:26 pm
by fallguy1000
If you were able to work green on green; you could skip the sanding.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:15 pm
by reefie
fallguy1000 wrote: Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:26 pm If you were able to work green on green; you could skip the sanding.
True... but I have given this considerable thought and I cant figure out how to do this without ending up with a complete disaster making the fairing stage an absolute nightmare.

The hull is BIG, both tall and wide. You cant reach the keel without leaning your hip against the chine/top plate, so if working a second layer on the bottom plate for example, your hip will be leaning against the wet/green overlap, and you have to put your palm for support on the wet/green bottom plate when leaning right over to the keel. Also, I cant see how you would pull a 9 metre length of glass over a wet or tacky green layer without ending up with a massive amount of wrinkles, pulled threads or distorted fabric.

With the top plates, it may be possible, but still very difficult. I am knitting the overlaps into each other (ie top-bottom-top... etc.. So I have resigned myself to sanding between layers. I just put on some heavy, fast music and get into the groove and the hour goes pretty quick.

If you have any ideas how to logistically work wet on wet, or wet on green, without ending up with a disaster (or inadvertently creating more work than just sanding each layer) let me know :D

Cheers,
Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:22 pm
by Jaysen
I think there’s “green” and greeeeen. You’re talking greeeeeen. I think fallguy is talking while the epoxy is in the early cure stage. Say 12-36 hours from application (assuming med-slow).

I could be wrong though. Been hearing that as a fact quite a lot recently.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:35 pm
by fallguy1000
Check the epoxy manufacturer's times.

Most likely you could glass without sanding after overnite. But you could also peelply to avoid all that sanding as well.

I forget the layup schedule; so maybe two sanding times ain't bad.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:14 pm
by TomW1
Reefie most epoxies are good for good for 24 hours for a chemical bond. It depends on the temp of course. The lower the better of course.

Tom

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:10 am
by fallguy1000
TomW1 wrote: Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:14 pm Reefie most epoxies are good for good for 24 hours for a chemical bond. It depends on the temp of course. The lower the better of course.

Tom
And the chem bond is preferred.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:33 am
by reefie
I don't know why, but I've never been comfortable bonding onto resin that has gone past the tacky stage 8O . I find it hard to accept that;
1. amine (if there is any) will not pose a problem; and
2. the bond will be 100%.

I have always had a policy that once the resin has gone past the tacky stage, I let it fully cure and then sand/wash down with warm soapy water, then dry off with a towel, as prep for subsequent bonding/glassing. But... I guess its never too late to revise my strategy.

WRT peelply (and I stand to be corrected) it is my understanding that you still need to sand anyway to get maximum bond strength.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:02 am
by fallguy1000
I generally sand after peelply, but there are arguments against.

And I think you are wrong on the other matter.

If you finished glassing at 8pm on Day 1 and you have a 24 hour bond window, you would check for blush the next morning and if no blush: go.

The bond would be better than a cure and sanded bond. This does require repeated nonstop effort and minimizing delays. It is a hard pill to swallow and I admit I struggle.

BUT, my foam parts take about 6 days to harden up with the 2 hour epoxy and they claim a 72 hour no sand window.

Don't trust it? Test it.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:10 am
by fallguy1000
Primary bonding is bonding in the chemical stage and is always better than secondary bonding(barring blush of course).

The best testing of secondary bonding is wire whipped substrates, followed by progressive grits.

But who wants to wire whip or use 36 grit on a layer of glass? Noone. And DON'T! Unless you have a big hunk of cabosil perhaps.

Rethink your method. Sanding is inferior to wet on green or wet on wet. And for you, yes, wet on wet impossible.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:12 am
by fallguy1000
Plus you gonna get tons of sanding in the fairing stage.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:13 am
by fallguy1000
You can read up on it.

Primary bonding vs secondary (sanding) bomding.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:11 pm
by Fuzz
While I agree a chemical bond should be stronger than a properly sanded surface I wonder by how much. Is it so close that it is something than takes a lab to show :doh: And if so does it really matter in real world boat building?
While it is nice to avoid all the sanding you can it is not the end of the world to do some sanding. You have a method that is working for you and appears to be producing good results so it would be hard for me to change my ways. That being said Fallguy is not wrong and his way could save you a bunch of sanding time if you could make it work.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:25 pm
by fallguy1000
I have read secondary bond strength is 10% if chem bond.

There are probably some studies done.

I'll see what I can find, however, JM would probably recommend wet on green; especially under climate controls or low humidity.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:51 pm
by Fuzz
fallguy1000 wrote: Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:25 pm I have read secondary bond strength is 10% if chem bond.

There are probably some studies done.

I'll see what I can find, however, JM would probably recommend wet on green; especially under climate controls or low humidity.
Dang 10% :!: I would have guessed closer to 90%
It would be nice to see some studies, it might change the way I do things.......big time.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 5:32 pm
by fallguy1000
Don't do it without testing Reefie.

The test is simple.

Just cut four pieces of scrap glass the same size like 4" wide by a foot long.

Then work two of those scraps into your next effort and wet them out onto plastic.

About 9 hours later epoxy another layer halfway onto one of the other pieces.

After you sand your boat, sand the other sample.

Then wetout another piece of glass onto it.

Allow both samples 48 hours to cure.

Try to pull them apart and compare the effort.

I will run the test here as well and report back.

Best of luck. I have trusted wet on green same day; never overnited.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:37 pm
by Grit19
I cannot offer any insight as to the difference between the two glassing techniques, but I will say, as a future bateau builder, reading these discussions sure is enlightening and hopefully by following these discussions I will be better off when building my own boat. I sure hope you all will chime in with any comments / advice for things I might be doing incorrectly or inefficiently because I will be needing and appreciative of all the help I can get!

Other than that, I do want to tell Reefie it is good to see you back on the build! This is a cool looking boat and your posts are always fun to see. Your work looks great to me.

I continue to watch and read with great interest.

Best,
Gib

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:52 pm
by reefie
Great discussion... and great suggestion to do a test.
Next glassing run I will also do a 4 way test and report back;
1. wet on wet (as a control)
2. wet on overnight green no washing to remove potential amine(about 18 hour interval to simulate realistic re-coat time)
3. wet on overnight green and wash to remove potential amine(also about 18 hour interval to simulate realistic re-coat time)
4. wet on cured sanded/washed

We are in the final days of winter, with relatively high humidity, and average night temps about 9 deg C (48 F) and average day day temps about 16 deg C (61 F). I should also note that it is the conditions at this time of the year when amine blush production is at its maximum.

Happy building :D
Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:28 pm
by BarraMan
I have read secondary bond strength is 10% if chem bond.
I'm not buying that and personally I wouldn't waste my time on testing!

You simply can't glass a big boat wet-on-wet, so the only way to effectively manage it is to sand between glass layers.

For my boat, I did each layer of glass cloth over the whole boat as wet-on-wet, then gave it a good week to set, sanded with 80 grit paper on a random orbital sander, washed with clean fresh water, let that dry then wiped over with acetone.

I only used peel-ply on the last layer of glass.

I don’t believe that my boat has 10% the bonding strength of a boat that has multiple layers of glass wet-on-wet!

How can you glass a boat this size wet-on-wet?
Image

PS: Reefie, love your boat - it looks fantastic!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:24 am
by reefie
BarraMan wrote: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:28 pm You simply can't glass a big boat wet-on-wet, so the only way to effectively manage it is to sand between glass layers.
EXACTLY... and I guess this is what I was alluding to in my opening post on this topic. However, I will still do the tests as a matter of interest because I'm keen to know.

Anyway, I have sanded and prepped the bottom plates for the next glass layer. Probably wont happen until next weekend unless I get a chance around my work commitments during in the week.

Image



Image



Image



Image

Happy building everyone!

Cheers Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:46 am
by OrangeQuest
Looking very good!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:18 am
by Jeff
Beautiful boat Reefie, really well done!! Jeff

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:52 am
by Grit19
I like the plank walkway you’ve made around the boat. I bet that makes it a lot less difficult to work on the bottom of your boat.

What are the black things you have holding down the fiberglass, and what is their purpose?

Thanks,
Gib

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:12 am
by fallguy1000
The picture of the bow is remarkable.

I can't wait to see more.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:42 am
by fallguy1000
Barraman. Noone suggested wet on wet. I said impossible. The discussion was about wet on green or even perhaps wet on overnite.

And if wet on green is better than secondary bonding, then when possible why not?

If you got up at 6am and wetted out until 10am; you could theoretically at least head back out and get another primary bond that day after a nap even! And I did my 2nd transom just that way. No sanding, tacky a tad; no blush. Keep on trucking 4 layers glass.

And more to the point, if not why not?

I don't set anyone's schedule and am required to do a lot of secondary bonding. A lot. It sucks.

But losing days to secondary bonding is not always best even.

David Pascoe, a famous yacht surveyor, has lots of stories about poor secondary bonding when primary bonding was possible. I really only mentioned it because wet on green has been advocated here by the designer and honestly, was trying to be friendly to reefie and save him time, if possible.

Nothing more than trying to help the guy beat the clock.

If you know the epoxies not too sticky at 6 hours cure, but can be overlayed no sanding; you know the limits of your production. See?

Just like your picture shows, I had to walk in my forward vee section; so wet on wet impossible. And wet on green impossible because you don't want weight bearing on uncured epoxy either.

Anyhow, was only trying to offer wet on green as a time savings; not a criticism of such great work.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:00 pm
by Fuzz
Dang Reefie that thing looks like you could skip the fairing and go right to paint. Your glass work is amazing.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:25 am
by reefie
Thanks gents - I am really enjoying being back in the "build zone".
Grit19 wrote: Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:52 am What are the black things you have holding down the fiberglass, and what is their purpose?
Hi Gib,
They are just dive belt weights to hold the fabric in place until I wet out the glass.




The weather gods look like they may prevent me from my planned farm work tomorrow, so I may get a chance to do the glassing :D

Happy building,

Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:10 am
by reefie
Found a few hours during the week to glass up a shaft log - when it cures I sure hope I can get it off the pipe mold 8O
I used 10 wraps of 450 DB and finished with a few wraps of peelply. It should give me about 6mm wall thickness.


Image



Haven't yet done the wet V green V overnight tests - will hopefully this weekend with some panel glassing.

Happy building.

Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:14 am
by glossieblack
The shaft log looks great Reefie. I chickened out and got an of the shelf fibreglass one.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:29 pm
by Fuzz
Shaft log looks good. You might end up needing to use something like a come-a-long to get it to release. The tiny amount of shrinkage in the cured glass can make a heck of a clamp.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:53 pm
by reefie
I dont know what I was worried about, it came off the mold easily - must have been the prep :lol:
I used about 25mm (1 inch) wide strips of mylar film laid lengthways along the length of the mold tube, overlapping by 50% taped at the ends to hold in place. Then over this I laid a sheet of mylar film wrapped around the mold tube 3 to 4 times, also taped at the end (make sure you dont glass over any of the tape). Then I laid the glass. When it cam to release from the mold, I simply removed all the tape and pulled out all the 25mm (1 inch) wide strips to free up a bit of space, and then the glass tube slid easily off the mold!

After trimming the ends, I ended up with a shaft log 1150mm (45 inches) long with an ID of 52.2mm (2.055 inches) and and OD of 63.9mm (2.516 inches) giving a wall thickness of 5.85mm (15/64ths). Im happy with that as its pretty much spot on. :D

Image



Happy building everyone!
Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:29 pm
by Fuzz
That is one fine looking shaft log Reefie :!:
Mighty slick way to cover your mold to get it to slide off. That is a trick I hope I will remember if I need it :wink:

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:00 pm
by fallguy1000
Yeah, that there is a nifty trick to remember. When I used the beam for a mould; I used plastic the same way, but the individual shim stlyed pieces is a great thing to remember. I had to use a 3# hammer to separate the beam from the mould and got my thumb one time really good.

How did you keep air pockets from developing?

How close does the shaft run to the log or is there a bearing? I know zilch about inboards.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:32 am
by Fuzz
With 200hp I am thinking he will be running about a 1.5 inch shaft. I do know I had 210hp on a 1 3/8 shaft once and it was not stiff enough. But then I was running a 24 inch prop and I am sure his will be smaller. Be interesting to see what he has planned for bearings.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 4:00 am
by reefie
fallguy1000 wrote: Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:00 pm How did you keep air pockets from developing?

How close does the shaft run to the log or is there a bearing? I know zilch about inboards.
Hi Fallguy, I just rolled the cloth directly from my fabric roll holder (which was on the floor under the mold) up and on to the mold and wet out with a chip brush as I rolled it on until I had 10 layers. I used a consolidation roller to push out any bubbles as I went. Right at the end, as I put on the peelply, I used the flat end of a wide paint scraper to force out any air pockets trapped under the peelply.

There will be a 6mm (1/4 inch) clearance all round the shaft which is 38mm (1.5 inches) just as Fuzz alluded to.

As far as knowing about inboards, I am not far (if at all) in front of you. I have only ever owned and built outboard powered boats. I will be following JM's instructions to the letter, and seeking professional help for the install - and of course relying on all those with more knowledge than me here on the forum.

Fuzz wrote: Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:32 am Be interesting to see what he has planned for bearings
Fuzz, the plans have a strut with cutlass bearing at the prop end, and the shaft is directly coupled to the gearbox at the motor end (with no additional bearing here).

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 5:43 am
by glossieblack
Wow! Nice shaft log. :D

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:31 am
by cape man
Super cool job (again :roll: ) 8)

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:57 pm
by Fuzz
So the shaft will exit the log and be hung on a strut?
Will the prop and rudder be exposed or will there be some form of shoe?

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:03 pm
by reefie
Fuzz wrote: Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:57 pm So the shaft will exit the log and be hung on a strut?
Yes
Fuzz wrote: Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:57 pm Will the prop and rudder be exposed or will there be some form of shoe?
They will be exposed.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:14 pm
by Fuzz
I know exposed is normal for most of the world. It is cleaner and more efficient plus easier to do.
I just worry about running aground, but then most of the world does not have 30 plus feet of tidal range.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:21 am
by reefie
Fuzz wrote: Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:14 pm I know exposed is normal for most of the world. It is cleaner and more efficient plus easier to do.
I just worry about running aground, but then most of the world does not have 30 plus feet of tidal range.
Hi Fuzz, most of my boating is in deep water - really the only time I get into shallows is at the boat ramp/marina. Our tidal movement is around 1 metre (3 feet).


I have just completed another glass layer over the entire hull - please let me know if you guys are sick of seeing pics of essentially the same thing and I will only post new stuff (I wont be offended because I can imagine it's getting pretty repetitive) :?

One thing that I would like to share is the new RO sanding discs I have discovered. They are called "Diablo" - they are ceramic and boy are they great for fibreglass. With my old 80 grit discs, I was going through about 8 to 10 per panel, and it was taking me about 1 hour. With these new Diablo 80 grit discs, I am using just 2 per panel, and it is only taking me about 20 minutes as well. HAPPY DAYS :D


Image



Anyway, happy building everyone!

Cheers,
Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:38 am
by glossieblack
Looking just great Reefie! :D

And please keep the progressive step by step progress pics coming. They are informative. 8)

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:52 am
by OrangeQuest
Still looking good! I like seeing the pictures and they are not boring, it's progress!

I have been using "Diablo" sanding discs for a few years now but didn't know about the ceramic ones. Will give them a try.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:38 am
by Jeff
Reefie, Boat is looking great!! Keep the photos & updates coming!!! Jeff

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:46 am
by fallguy1000
No such thing as too much boat porn reefie.

It doesn't exist.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:35 pm
by Eric1
Your boat is looking great! Keep posting pictures we like them!!!
Thanks for the tip on the sanding discs too. :)

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:06 pm
by icelikkilinc
We get sick when we dont see them, really loving this build

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:25 pm
by Grit19
Yes Reefie. Please keep lots of pics coming. Who knows what someone could learn from the simplest photo. Besides, this is one of the few threads I follow and get notices on. So the more photos you post, the more often I will have a reason to visit the forum. 8)

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:42 pm
by piperdown
Amen! Keep the pics coming!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:28 pm
by reefie
Thanks gents... just checking, and I will keep the pics flowing.
I will be off farm for the better half of this coming week, so there won't be any boat building action.

Happy building to everyone else.

Cheers Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:03 pm
by DAYTRIP
Boat looks great. Love seeing and hearing about the progress. Nice work!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:13 am
by reefie
Hi guys,
I haven't been able to get a heap done this week due to my work trip, but I managed to cut out and glue in my thruster tube. I will fair in a spoiler on the leading edge and radius the trailing edge.

Image


Also thought I would post some interesting (well I think so anyway) information about our local inlet - Wilson Inlet. It is landlocked for about 6 months of the year, and in winter when the water level rises to a point at which the potato growers and low lying land owners complain, the local Rivers and Waterways Commission intervenes and manually opens the bar with heavy earth-moving equipment. This year they used an excavator and dozer. The first two photos are from a few weeks ago - the day they opened the bar (please excuse my finger, or is it someones bald head, in the second pic). The last one is from last weekend after the outflow has properly opened the bar, and is taken from another lookout. You can also see our local surf lifesaving clubhouse in the lower left of the photo.

Image



Image



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I have also begun marking out a template for the swim platform.

Happy building everyone.

Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:00 am
by OrangeQuest
Very interesting photos!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:54 am
by reefie
I constructed a jig and laminated up a "bezel" to go around the swim platform.
It is 5 layers of of 9mm marine ply (45mm wide) by 45mm high (essentially 1.75 inches X 1.75 inches).
The infill will be 3 layers of 15mm foam (totalling 45mm thick).
The bezel will provide great protection for an area likely to receive the odd knock or two, and provide a good high density base for attaching the rub rail.

Image


Hoping to get some more glassing done on the bottom plates this week or weekend.

Happy building

Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:59 am
by Eric1
Very Nice Reefie!!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:39 am
by OrangeQuest
Surprised that 9mm would make such a bend. Good work!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:01 am
by reefie
Thanks Eric and OQ.
OrangeQuest wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:39 am Surprised that 9mm would make such a bend. Good work!
I kerfed the ply at the tight bends.

Cheers,
Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:14 am
by fastlane
Hi Reefie
Wanted to say you got a beautiful build. Cant wait to see the finished project.
I would love to build this boat!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:15 am
by fallguy1000
When you design a swim deck; try to make it strong enough to perform in rough seas, but weak enough to fail before the transom is damaged in say a collision. This is more true for a foam boat.

I am a terrible overbuilder and have no business building a boat at all. Overbuilding a swim deck connection can sink a foam boat.

I can't wait to see what you build.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:24 am
by icelikkilinc
very nice work

When I designed my original swim platform for TW28, I used a similar U type bezel logic but wrapped that around the hull
I did sand down the hull 0.5 cm to create a groove where the magohany part will be epoxy laminated too.
I also drilled 12 holes, where I installed M12 * 150 mm 316SS bolts/HD washers, all holls filled with epoxy putty when tighting from inside the hull so the outside will leave no gap.

The rest of the platform is also from mahogany but laminated as sacrificial if there was an accident.
See the platform construction to give an idea.

Image

And this after the major incident where my neighbour Sunseeker could not back into her slot and decided to ram me into the marina wall.
As you can see, the main piece attached to the boat is intact, actually protecting the hull but sacrificial pieces are where the damage was.
There was no hull damage, actually my bow entered the stern of Sunseeker :D

Image

After I moved countries in 2013 and decided to seel my boat at 2015, I did install a SS platform for quick sale
My original wood was still as strong, so used that as base with my SS fabricator friend to build a SS/mahogany combo as below.

Image

Did not want to hijack your beautiful tread, just wanted to share my experience..

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:49 am
by reefie
fastlane wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:14 am Hi Reefie
Wanted to say you got a beautiful build. Cant wait to see the finished project.
I would love to build this boat!
Thanks Fastlane. And it is a lovely boat for sure. My advice... If it's the boat you would love to build, don't let life pass you by with regrets.... :wink:


Fallguy and Ilker... great info... and Ilker you are definitely not hijacking my thread - this is the exact information that I anticipate would be discussed so that my build is the best that it can be.

The plan was for my laminated bezel to also wrap around the hull like yours Ilker. But now, and based on both your advice, I will laminate up a "beam" to go between the swim platform and the transom to protect the transom if any unfortunate incidents like Ilker's were to arise, with the divinycell foam between the bezel and the transom "beam" acting as the sacrificial "crumple zone" (I hope). Please let me know if you guys think this plan sounds like it will work or is destined to be a failure!

Cheers,
Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:57 am
by fallguy1000
When you say beam, I envision something very strong.

A crumple zone is a place of weakness. Foam boats sometimes have this in the nose or bow even. They will generally bolt on the nose and the tape joins are absent or outside only.

It is hard for me to determine your intent in words, but I trust your ability based on your rework of the planking. You will probably do it fine.

The bottom line is plan for someone to hit the platform; think ram it. It sucks doing so, but it can save your boat from sinking. I'm glad Ilker experienced this because it shows I am not just a senseless nit!

You are essentially going to design it to fail without piercing the hull.

The beam or wrap of the hull would need to be above the WL I'd say for a planing vessel. Ilker's boat was a displacement craft I believe.

Sorry I can't offer more. Dan

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:29 am
by fallguy1000
The rules for nosecone crumple zones have the stringers stop wel before the bulkhead. For the swim platform; you would create a weakness or design it to break up above the WL versus down below it, if that is any help.

This is all more relevant for marina boats as well.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:00 am
by reefie
I pretty much have a plan in my mind now for the swim platform.
I will post pics as I go.
I will be doing another layer on the bottom plates tomorrow.

Happy building
Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:40 am
by reefie
Well I have got another glass layer on the bottom plates. The end is now in sight with only 1 glass layer to go over the entire hull :D

Image



Laminated up the beam to go between the swim platform and the transom.

Image



Will need to start getting my head around the keel.

Happy building.

Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:14 am
by glossieblack
Beautiful building Reefie, it's a pleasure to follow. :D

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:16 am
by Jeff
I fully agree with GB!! Beautiful work Reefie!! Jeff

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:39 am
by fallguy1000
Are you wetting out mat backed glass on the boat?

Can you explain again how you are doing it so flawlessly?

Cutout dry and lift back and wetout hull ahead of relaying it?

Or are you just wetting it down fabric?

What epoxy or resin? Viscosity?

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:43 am
by Browndog
That hull is really looking good.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:56 am
by reefie
Thanks GB, Jeff, Fallguy and Browndog.


fallguy1000 wrote: Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:39 am Are you wetting out mat backed glass on the boat?
As stated earlier, I was unable to get 1708 and 1808 from my glass supplier, so I have built up the laminate schedule using alternating layers of 450gsm double bias (+45, -45) and 450gsm biaxial (0, 90) to the required thickness - and this obviously required more layers than the 1708/1808 schedule.

fallguy1000 wrote: Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:39 am Can you explain again how you are doing it so flawlessly?
First let me state that I am no expert... but I have a fair amount of experience in glassing with epoxy. I am working by myself, and here is my technique. I am wetting out using a 2 inch chip brush. For me, I have always found a brush to be the best tool for wetting out. With experience, you get a feel for just how much resin you need to lay down so that after a few minutes of the resin soaking in you have just the right amount to get the correct resin:glass ratio. For large glassing areas (such as the top and bottom plates), my batch size is about 600mls or 1 pint (15 pumps of each). I brush out the resin completely before using my consolidation roller. Also, I don't lay any more resin out until I have completely rolled, consolidated and removed all air bubbles from this batch. This takes considerable attention to detail and time (if you find you don't need to spend time on the consolidation roller, then you must have laid out too much resin:glass). I guess I spend 15 minutes laying out the 600 ml batch, and at least 5 to 10 minutes consolidating/rolling. I wont lay down any more resin until I am completely satisfied I have properly consolidated and removed all air bubbles from this batch. After laying out and consolidating the next batch, I will quickly check back over the previous one or two, paying particular attention to any edges/corners. As a guide, and working solo, it is taking me 4 hours to do one plate on the 26 foot boat.

fallguy1000 wrote: Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:39 am Cutout dry and lift back and wetout hull ahead of relaying it?
Cut out the night before and lay out over the panel and gently caress out any wrinkles before any wetting out.

fallguy1000 wrote: Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:39 am Or are you just wetting it down fabric?
Yes, I'm wetting out through the fabric - no pre-wetting or rolling back the fabric.

fallguy1000 wrote: Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:39 am What epoxy or resin? Viscosity?
West system 5:1. Yes the viscosity is important, and it is controlled by resin temperature. I bought my resin in a 200kg (44 gallon drum). I decant into 20 litre drums and I wrap the one I am dispensing from (including the hardener) in an electric blanket with 3 heat settings and I adjust the setting according to the ambient temp. If the resin is too warm, it will be nice and runny to begin with, but begins to exotherm and reduces your working time before gelling commences. Too cold, and it is too thick and hard to wet out easily and properly.


I hope this helps and answers your questions. If I have missed something or further explanation is required, just let me know.

Cheers,

Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:07 am
by glossieblack
I'm happy be corrected, but to my knowledge Reefie has just provided about the best guide to large area non-vacuum glassing on this forum. :D

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:52 am
by piperdown
glossieblack wrote: Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:07 am I'm happy be corrected, but to my knowledge Reefie has just provided about the best guide to large area non-vacuum glassing on this forum. :D
I'm a total amateur but I agree, real solid writeup on glassing large areas.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:03 am
by Jeff
GB, I agree with you!! Looks like Reefie has provided a receipt for success!! Jeff

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:51 am
by icelikkilinc
Jeff wrote: Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:03 am GB, I agree with you!! Looks like Reefie has provided a receipt for success!! Jeff
with visual backup material to prove :wink:

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:01 pm
by fallguy1000
Oh. Things make much more sense now knowing it is 450g and not 17oz mat glass. I am working with some 400g and it wets out super nice.

Keep up the great work and thanks for all the tips on excellence.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:53 pm
by narfi
reefie wrote: Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:56 am I wrap the one I am dispensing from (including the hardener) in an electric blanket with 3 heat settings and I adjust the setting according to the ambient temp. If the resin is too warm, it will be nice and runny to begin with, but begins to exotherm and reduces your working time before gelling commences. Too cold, and it is too thick and hard to wet out easily and properly.
Great idea, I have just been running an electric space heater pointed at my bottles, but you seem to have a great system going with much better control :)
Boat is looking great too, an inspiration to all.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:23 am
by reefie
Thanks fellas - glad to give something back to the community :D

I have to take a business trip off farm again later this week so probably no more big jobs until the weekend.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:36 am
by reefie
Well I managed to apply the last two layers on the transom today - wet on wet.

Before doing this, I glued on the laminated beam that will go between the swim platform and the transom to protect the transom from the swim platform being pushed through the transom in the case of a rear collision - as per the advise of Ilker and Fallguy. The glass then overlaps over this beam.

First layer.

Image



And the second layer.

Image



Will need to trim off while the glass is still green and leatehry a bit later.

Happy building!

Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:02 am
by BarraMan
Looking good! Build on. :D

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:05 am
by Jeff
Well done Reefie!! Jeff

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:01 am
by OrangeQuest
Very good glass work! Can't wait to see the flip!!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:40 am
by fallguy1000
On the last pic on the hullsides you can see the glue lines and planking.

Is she already fair or do you have to make it ' 'rounder' there?

Oshow had trouble fairing his rig.

If it isn't round, you might benefit by the notched trowel fairing method.

The transom really shows the size of this rig.

Did you ever see the show quality LB26 pictures from the Turkey build?

How do you intend to finish the exterior anyway?

How high above the WL is the platform beam?

How you plan to flip?

Good luck. It is looking great. One of my deals is running short on the glass here or there am inch. I see you have nipped that by allowing extra beyond the wetout. The lighter biax seems to take on a life of its own on long lengths and is tricky to get it to repeat the same length wet or laying down on wet as dry.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:33 pm
by piperdown
Its great seeing how you tackle this project and everything comes together so nicely. That's going to be one beautiful boat!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:25 am
by reefie
Thanks BM, Jeff, OQ, FG and PD :D


OrangeQuest wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:01 am Very good glass work! Can't wait to see the flip!!
You and me both! But I think it will be quite a while yet... still got the rest of the glassing to do, then finish the swim platform, install the shaft log, construct the skeg, painting, etc... 8O

fallguy1000 wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:40 am Is she already fair or do you have to make it ' 'rounder' there?
It is fairly fair, but there will definitely be some more fairing to do once the glassing is done.

fallguy1000 wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:40 am Did you ever see the show quality LB26 pictures from the Turkey build?
Yes I did... looks amaizing, but it is set up as a day cruiser - where I will set mine up primarily for fishing.

fallguy1000 wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:40 am How do you intend to finish the exterior anyway?
I keep changing my mind. But I will be fairing both the bottom and topside plates and undercoating. I think I will end up using a hard antifouling suitable for trailer boats on the bottom plates, and 2 pak on the topside plates.

fallguy1000 wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:40 am How high above the WL is the platform beam?
Exactly as per JM plans... which I think from memory has the top of the swim platform about 5 inches above the DWL.

fallguy1000 wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:40 am How you plan to flip?
Still working on a plan... but by my calculations the hull at flipping stage should be less than 300kg. At the moment my preference is to use cum-along's and do the flip inside the shed.


Got the glass laid out for for the final layer for the starboard bottom plate - hopefully I will be able to get this done tomorrow :D

Image


Happy building everyone!

Cheers,
Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:21 am
by piperdown
Geezer, that's is one BIG piece of FG! 8O

I don't recall, do you have some help or are you working alone?

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:26 am
by reefie
piperdown wrote: Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:21 am I don't recall, do you have some help or are you working alone?
PD, I'm flying solo at the moment :?

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:30 am
by piperdown
reefie wrote: Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:26 am
piperdown wrote: Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:21 am I don't recall, do you have some help or are you working alone?
PD, I'm flying solo at the moment :?
No wonder you brew! Have to have something to fortify the soul before tackling that!

BTW great writeup on Explorers rebuild thread on gelcoat over epoxy. Learned a lot by reading it.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:56 am
by Eric1
Reefie, That is some really nice glass work! I hope you have a smooth session!! 8)

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:22 pm
by Fuzz
That was great to have someone who knew what they were talking about to help out with the gelcoat issue.
By the way what do you mean when you speak of flowcoat? Is that a product :doh:

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:57 pm
by reefie
piperdown wrote: Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:30 am No wonder you brew! Have to have something to fortify the soul before tackling that!
Hahaha... I tend to have the "reward the soul after the glassing session" method - otherwise who knows how it might turn out 8O


Eric1 wrote: Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:56 am Reefie, That is some really nice glass work! I hope you have a smooth session!!
Thanks Eric. Got the glassing done without any hiccups (didnt have my phone with me so I didnt get a photo).


Fuzz wrote: Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:22 pm By the way what do you mean when you speak of flowcoat? Is that a product
Yes folwcoat is a product... well it is here in Australia anyway. It is sometimes alternatively called topcoat, brushable flowcoat, etc...
From my understanding, it is essentially just gelcoat with about 2% to 3% styrene wax added. Then as it cures, the styrene wax migrates to the surface and seals it off which then allows the flowcoat to fully cure without remaining tackey.
Just like gelcoat, pigments can be added - but you must not exceed the manufacturers limit or it will also prevent proper curing.


Cheers,
Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:28 pm
by Fuzz
Thanks Reefie. Sounds like it is gelcoat with wax added which is normal for a final coat when not building in a mold.
I am loving your build. I would love to build one like it only with a protected prop and rudder with a little bigger engine. But the last thing I need to do is build another boat :help:

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:21 pm
by reefie
I think its incurable Fuzz, but I sure better make this my last build... or I may get kicked out of home 8O . Though I recon I might be able to sneak a small one under the radar 8)


A pic of yesterdays glassing for all those that love to see photos!
Now only the port bottom plate, and the port and starboard topside plates to go and that will be the end of the external hull lamination's!!!!!

Image


Cheers,
Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:09 am
by TomW1
Beautiful work Reefie. You are wonderful boat when you are done.

Tom

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:15 pm
by reefie
Thanks Tom - I sure hope so!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:06 am
by reefie
Hi all,

Managed to gain myself a spare day today so I seized opportunity and glassed the port bottom plate.
I'm inching slowly ever closer to finishing the hull laminations.


Image



Happy building!

Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:53 am
by piperdown
Said it before and I'll say it again, beautiful boat lines and extremely impressive lamination! So smooth 8O

Love following along with your build.

Question, are you heading into spring down under? Grew up on a farm in Idaho and know that spring is a crazy busy time on a farm.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:39 am
by OrangeQuest
Impressive, very impressive!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:43 am
by Jeff
Beautiful work Reefie!! Jeff

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:27 am
by fallguy1000
What is your resin pot temp before and after mixing?

Are you heating resin only?

For a 2:1 epoxy a guy would need to heat both and run smaller batches.

The thing looks really great and very bubble free.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:32 am
by Bogieman
Wow! Very nice

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:09 pm
by reefie
Thanks for you kind words piperdown, OrangeQuest, Jeff, Fallguy and Bogieman. Every time I enter the "boat shed" I am always so impressed with JM's beautiful LB26 design, and I am on a mission to do it it justice!


piperdown wrote: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:53 am Question, are you heading into spring down under? Grew up on a farm in Idaho and know that spring is a crazy busy time on a farm.
Yes we are, and you are right... things are about to get real busy. My goal is to finish off the external hull laminations within the next few weeks so that I can tackle some of the littler jobs that are able to have an hour or two thrown at them, when time permits, in-between the upcoming hectic farm work.


fallguy1000 wrote: Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:27 am What is your resin pot temp before and after mixing?
To be honest, I have never measured it. I just adjust the electric blanket thermostat based on how easy or hard it is to push through the dispensing pumps - too thick and I dial up the temp one setting, too runny and I dial it down one. The electric blanket keeps the temp pretty stable and I really only need to adjust the setting as the seasons change. The ambient temp in my shed varies minimally - in winter mostly between 12 to 18 deg C (54 to 64 deg F) and in summer mostly between 16 to 27 deg C (60 to 80 deg F).
In winter I have the electric blanket on heat setting 2 (but may crank up to 3 on occasion), in spring and autumn on heat setting one (but may crank up to 2 on occasion), and when summer temps kick in I do not need to heat the epoxy.
If I were to guess my ideal resin temp, I would say probably something like about 23 to 25 deg C (73 to 77 deg F).


fallguy1000 wrote: Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:27 am Are you heating resin only?
I am heating both, so the resin temp before and after mixing is the same.


fallguy1000 wrote: Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:27 am For a 2:1 epoxy a guy would need to heat both and run smaller batches.
I recon so.


Cheers,
Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:51 am
by reefie
Still chipping away at it guys.

Sanded the port topside plate and overlaps in prep for glassing.

Image



Layed out the glass.

Image



And did the glassing today.

Image



Only the starboard topside plate to go and then all the external hull laminations will be complete!!!



Happy building.

Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:56 am
by Jeff
Beautiful work Reefie!! Jeff

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:21 am
by piperdown
Dayum! That is still some of the smoothest glass work! 8O

Those full shop pics, with tools as a reference, really hammer home how big that boat is. It going to be a show room piece when you're done!

Sounds like you have a good plan for spring planting where you can nibble away an hour here or there with stuff. I recall April-June (depending on the weather) Dad and I running the tractors non stop before and after school, plus all the little things that go into spring planting. Then not much during summer except moving siphon tubes and gated pipe (where I grew up all fields were irrigated), which only took about 2 hours per day. Fall got as crazy as spring with harvest and prep the fields for winter.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:04 am
by OrangeQuest
Unbelievable craftsmanship! So a flip is in the near future!!! Can hardly wait to see the other side!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:44 am
by Eric1
Very Nice Reefie! :D

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:46 pm
by Fuzz
I am sure taking the time to get the glass all laid out and in place to start with is a huge help. Your work is so clean I believe you will reap a huge reward when doing the fairing.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:05 pm
by fallguy1000
Things sure look great Reefie.

Have you been doing any prefairing or filling at the overlaps or just sanding?

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:56 am
by reefie
Thanks Jeff, piperdown, OrangeQuest, Eric, Fuzz and Fallguy.

I have the Starboard side all prepped for glassing tomorrow :D

Piperdown we have fruit orchards and are just about to commence our harvest. There is also all the weed control, fertilizing, irrigating etc... that comes with the warming weather. I too have my kids helping out during the harvest - mind you they get paid pretty well so they have a fairly good intensive :wink:


fallguy1000 wrote: Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:05 pm Have you been doing any prefairing or filling at the overlaps or just sanding?

Staggering the overlaps as per the plans and sanding to feather the edges for a smooth transition.


Cheers,
Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:14 pm
by fallguy1000
Pay close attention to that line friends. Staggering is part of the magic.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:04 am
by reefie
Well today marks a significant milestone for me - the external hull laminations are complete!!!!!! YIPPEEEEEEE :D

By my crude calculations I have laid on approx 110 kg (242 pounds) each of glass and epoxy 8O 8O 8O


Image



Image




Happy building everyone!

Cheers Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:06 am
by cape man
Beautiful. Just beautiful.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:35 am
by glossieblack
Stunning. 8)

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:55 am
by Eric1
Congratulations! Big step!! :D

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:29 am
by Jeff
Beautiful work Reefie & congratulations!!! Jeff

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:13 pm
by DAYTRIP
That looks like top quality work my friend. You will appreciate the time and care you gave the layup as you transition to fill and fairing. Really looking forward to seeing it come together!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:25 am
by reefie
Thanks cape man, glossieblack, Eric, Jeff and DAYTRIP.
I had been pushing pretty hard to get to this milestone before things got busy on the farm, and the plan is to now be concentrate on the skeg and the swim platform.
Unfortunately, I have not had any time spare time to spend on the boat since I finished the laminations :roll:
Fingers crossed, I will be able to get some time in later this week.
But I have really have been enjoying following everyone else's builds.

Happy building,
Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:27 am
by mecreature
She is absolutely beautiful reefie. Its been a long time since I have read a thread from start to current in one setting.
Love the pics. What a monster.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:29 pm
by deuce_454
ah... now for the fairing ... and fairing....

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:46 am
by reefie
Thanks mecreature and deuce.
I still have a few things to bowl over before the fairing... but I am psyching myself up for this part of the build 8O

Cheers,
Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:08 pm
by Fuzz
I am betting your fairing is going to be much easier than a lot of ours has been. Only bad part is there is a lot of boat to fair. That dude is going to be 100 foot long before you are done :lol:

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:33 am
by reefie
Fuzz wrote: Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:08 pm That dude is going to be 100 foot long before you are done :lol:
:help: :help: :help: :D

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:02 am
by reefie
Hi Guys,
I haven't had much spare time to put towards the build lately, but I have managed to glue on the swim platform bezel and start laminating up the panels for the swim platform deck insert.


Image



Image



Things are going to remain very busy for the foreseeable future so I will only be able to get little bites at the build for a while :(


Happy building everyone.

Cheers Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:09 am
by OrangeQuest
Wow! That looks really good!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:18 am
by glossieblack
That step is going to look sweet as. 8)

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:19 am
by Eric1
Well done Reefie! Get in those bites when you can, they add up!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:22 am
by Jeff
Nice work Reefie!!! Jeff

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:19 am
by piperdown
That looks great! :D
Holy cow that's going to be a BIG boat! 8O

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:23 am
by fallguy1000
Y r there two layouts on the laminate?

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:24 pm
by Fuzz
Man has to do what he has to do to earn a living but feed us a tidbit when you can. there is a lot of love for this build.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:50 pm
by icelikkilinc
Great job expect nothing less

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:22 am
by AtTheBrink
Any updates on your build Reefie? Looking forward to see more of your build.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:15 am
by fallguy1000
fallguy1000 wrote: Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:23 am Y r there two layouts on the laminate?
Try to ask another way? Is the swim platform two layers?

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:27 am
by piperdown
He's probably finishing up with harvest time.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:21 pm
by PangaRon
Loving this build! Please post your progress when you can!

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:57 am
by Fuzz
Any progress with this baby?

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:00 am
by reefie
Hi Guys,
Sorry for the long delay in responding but it has been quite a year.
Towards the end of our last harvest my mother in law started going downhill with cancer and she moved in with us. We nursed her at home till the end which was only just over a month ago. Needless to say boatbuilding was not on my radar during this period.
Our next harvest is due to begin next week so it looks like very little (if any) boatbuilding for the next 4 to 5 months.
I drop onto the forum periodically and I am astounded by the progress and quality of builds on show.
Rest assured, as soon as there is any progress I will post.
In the mean time, happy boatbuilding everyone!
Cheers,
Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:45 pm
by Fuzz
Thanks for the update. The boat can wait it sounds like you have your hands full with lots of other life events. Sorry to hear about your MIL. That is tough on all involved.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:55 pm
by fallguy1000
Best of luck.

It will be a great boat when you get to it.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:03 am
by Eric1
Love and Prayers for you all Reefie.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:22 pm
by Jeff
Reefie, all the best to you and your family!!! Jeff

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:37 pm
by PangaRon
Great job Reefie! I'd love to see your progress on this build! Let us know when you're able to post again.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:36 am
by reefie
Hi Guys,
Thanks for all the kind words of support and encouragement.
Well I have finally managed to find some time to do a bit of work on the swim platform over the last few days.
I have glued in the platform deck, and glassed the first layer on the bezel.
I have also cut out some knees supports ready for gluing. I was deciding between 2, 3 or 4 knee supports.
With 2 knee supports evenly spaced, they would interfere with the ability to add trim tabs, so I pretty much ruled this out.
With 4 knee supports, it looked way overkill.
So I am contemplating either going with 3 knees supports evenly spaced, or only 2 by dropping out the centre one - either way I will still be able to install the drainage bung, and trim tabs if I so choose. What do you guys think?
The trim tab actuators would need to be positioned approximately where the black texta lines are.



Image



Image



Image



Happy building!
Cheers Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:02 am
by fallguy1000
3 for me

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:12 am
by fallguy1000
One thing I don't like is that if another boat ever comes up on your swim platfrom; the knees will likely puncture the hull below the waterline and with the weight of the inboard, might sink the ship.

For this reason, it would be good to make sure the knees can break. Consider a weak point that would be a structural failure point if another vessel/dock comes up on top.

You may already have done it and the margin between the flat and triangle might be fine. It looks really strong to me. (Too strong perhaps?)

I am an overbuilder as well; so this would be really hard for me and I would want to build as you have shown.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:30 am
by fallguy1000
The guy that built the tw28 in Turkey had coined in on the subject. I don't profess to be the expert.

Like I said before, I really love this design and still wonder about building it someday; so am very tuned into the details.

The work you are doing is superb Reefie.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:38 am
by fallguy1000
Here is a picture of one with a failure/breakaway; although in bronze which might not break; so they added mahogany as well.

Of course the risk is in heavy seas; underdesign breaks off, so it is challenging; hopefully Ilker will coin in.

Also, if you metal bracket to the transom; the brackets can be sized to fail..

Sorry if I am a pain..
797FFC65-7E94-47C9-ADE5-57AF26B4DBB9.jpeg
797FFC65-7E94-47C9-ADE5-57AF26B4DBB9.jpeg (10.97 KiB) Viewed 1298 times
I mean metal bracket, not like the picture, but like commercial platforms where they are designed to crumple when the boat hits something.

I have seen guys back into slips with swim platforms. The smart guys back into inflatable dinghies.

This is the bracketing I mean. It would be a lot less fairing. A couple pieces of 316 tubing; not too costly; you can probably get the mounting hardware for the angles, too, or get them made.
FA5AB5EA-472D-4A66-88AD-25B2443BF966.png

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:11 pm
by fallguy1000
I think you pad the area of the metal bracket on the transom with high density core so the bracket doesn't pierce your hull.

I don't know the crumple strengths of the various tubing, but 3/4" ss tube used for railing has a good gut feeling for me.

You can probably purchase the same railing as you may? use for the top railings.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:10 pm
by Fuzz
First that is some beautiful work you are doing :wink: I think three supports looks about right also. For the trim tabs it is my understanding they will be much more effective mounted closer to the outside edges. It looks like you have plenty of room to mount the outboard of the supports. Others may know more :doh:

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:06 am
by reefie
Thanks Fuzz and Fallguy. The design of the swim platform (and I must admit that I am no engineer , and I also tend to over engineer just to be sure) has been something that I have given considerable thought to with regard to the concerns that have been raised. Here is my take on the design;
1. The transom itself is constructed of a very robust lamination schedule … 6 layers of 450 gsm layers of alternating double bias (+45 and -45) and
450 gsm biaxial (0 and 90) on the outside. There will be 4 layers of alternating 450 gsm double bias and 450 gsm biaxial on the inside. The
transom core is 275kg/m3 paulownia.
2. The swim platform will be sheathed in 2 layers of 450gsm double bias top and bottom (overlapping at the bezel) and a single layer of divinycell
(80kg/m3) for the core, and the bezel itself will also be strengthened with a further 2 layers of 450gsm double bias tape.
3. The knees I plan to cover in 2 layers of 450gsm double bias.

In the scenario put forward by Fallguy in which sufficient downward force was put on the swim platform (for example anoher boat running up on to it, a massive wave breaking on it, coming up under a dock etc…) I can see that there will be three possible break points;
1. The knees pushing through the transom
2. The knees buckling/breaking
3. The swim platform pushing past the knees (i.e. the knees piercing the swim platform)

Given that the transom construction is magnitudes more robust than the swim platform deck, I see the deck giving way long before the transom ever would, and it is most likely (given the shape of the knees) that they would also buckle/break before piercing the transom.

I guess we only know for sure if, heaven forbid, it gets put to the test in a real life scenario.

I have also contemplated using stainless struts in lieu of the knees but I’m not a big fan of fasteners below the waterline if they can be avoided. I also prefer the look of an integrated swim platform.

With regard to the placement of the trim tab actuators, and to keep them below the swim platform, the length of actuators dictates how far outboard they can be placed – which is about where the black texta line is marked. It would be preferable to have them further out towards the chine, but like so many aspects of boat construction, there are always compromises. Also, at this stage I do not plan on installing trim tabs unless sea trials deem them necessary (but I want to plan for them just in case).

I really value the input of forum members as it acts as an external QA method (a benefit previously stated by Fallguy), and also may raise issues and ideas that alone may not be considered.

Please keep up the input guys.

Happy building,
Cheers, Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:16 am
by glossieblack
A convincing reasoned response to concerns raised.

Hope your next crop somehow defies the drought.

Happy farming and boat building, :D

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:31 am
by icelikkilinc
This sunseeker was drunk and backed into me at night and pushed my TW28 to harbour wall
My bow opening the back of Sunseeker

Image

My Swim platform after impact from both sides

My design to make this 2 tier

outside is disposable in case of impact and as you can see, no damage to hull, only to swim platform.

Image


Image

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:02 am
by fallguy1000
Build on Reefie!

It is beautiful and I eagerly await the next bits.

Hope you remember the rubber dinghy trick if you ever need it.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:19 am
by reefie
Thanks GB,
While our district has been experiencing a decline in rainfall, we are definitely not in drought. All our irrigation dams are full for the summer ahead
Farming for me is my passion - I am (nearly) always happy :D


Thanks Fallguy - the rubber dinghy trick is now locked into my memory bank :lol:

And thanks Icelikkilinc - it was in response to your post on your unfortunate swim platform incident that made me modify my plans :wink:

Happy building,
Cheers Reefie

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:19 am
by Frankdonovan
Are you still out there Reefie? I'm new to the Bateau family and am considering the LB26. I'm curious why you decided to plank the bottom and transom instead of using the recommended foam core?
Nice craftsmanship.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:43 am
by fallguy1000
I sent reefie an email, sure hope we get to see his work continue.

He is basically strip planking, which is one of the allowed methods.

His strip method will produce a stiffer hull.

I don't recall if the glass schedule changes, but I can check later to see.

Building in cedar strip is a lot of fun, but the bonding of each piece to the next is an incredible tedium and slow and messy.

Reefie's method would be so much faster because you only have two days of mixing adhesives. They would need to be done pretty well to avoid slumping unless you were able to glass one side before flipping and fill to glass.

Hope we at least get an occasional glimpse of his work.

Re: Reefie's LB26

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:46 am
by OrangeQuest
I love following his build, and amazed at the craftsmanship.