GT27 Build (Wes K)

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bklake
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Re: GT27 Build (Wes K)

Post by bklake »

A correctly sized portable generator can also run an air conditioner as well as charge the batteries. Just a thought.

wkisting
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Re: GT27 Build (Wes K)

Post by wkisting »

Yes, we've given some thought to a generator and/or solar panels for charging. We're going to try to keep the power consumption down by striving for minimalism and efficiency, but there will likely be a small fridge and also some kids' laptops that occasionally need power.

Still weighing the pros/cons of the smaller outboards. For the twins (~25hp each), these are the benefits I see:
- better grip/maneuverabilty
- relatively light, so easy to dismount one from the transom to take it in for service if need be
- redundancy (back up if one goes down)
- virtually identical weight to a single 50/60hp
- in theory, virtually the same fuel efficiency at the lower displacement speeds we'll be running, based on what I read about twins vs. single at slower speeds
- more (total) charging amps than a single

For the single engine, the benefits are:
- cheaper by ~$2K (ballpark estimate)
- simpler rigging
- simpler/cheaper maintenance
- virtually identical weight to twin 25s, but 10 extra horsepower if I go with the 60hp
- all motors seem to have markup now due to supply chain issues, so only paying markup once instead of twice...

Grateful for all the input to help me think this through. My neighbor is checking on clearance to see if we could even fit twin motors on the bracket, as that may settle the issue quickly if they won't.
Wes
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My build thread is here --> viewtopic.php?f=12&t=63644

fallguy1000
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Re: GT27 Build (Wes K)

Post by fallguy1000 »

wkisting wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 8:24 am Yes, we've given some thought to a generator and/or solar panels for charging. We're going to try to keep the power consumption down by striving for minimalism and efficiency, but there will likely be a small fridge and also some kids' laptops that occasionally need power.

Still weighing the pros/cons of the smaller outboards. For the twins (~25hp each), these are the benefits I see:
- better grip/maneuverabilty
- relatively light, so easy to dismount one from the transom to take it in for service if need be
- redundancy (back up if one goes down)
- virtually identical weight to a single 50/60hp
- in theory, virtually the same fuel efficiency at the lower displacement speeds we'll be running, based on what I read about twins vs. single at slower speeds
- more (total) charging amps than a single

For the single engine, the benefits are:
- cheaper by ~$2K (ballpark estimate)
- simpler rigging
- simpler/cheaper maintenance
- virtually identical weight to twin 25s, but 10 extra horsepower if I go with the 60hp
- all motors seem to have markup now due to supply chain issues, so only paying markup once instead of twice...

Grateful for all the input to help me think this through. My neighbor is checking on clearance to see if we could even fit twin motors on the bracket, as that may settle the issue quickly if they won't.
If you want better maneuverability; you also need space for hydraulic cylinders; otherwise the two engines will run on a single tiebar in same direction.
My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

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OrangeQuest
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Re: GT27 Build (Wes K)

Post by OrangeQuest »

Twin engine boats are maneuvered with the throttles and not independent steering. Why wouldn't you want a tiebar when the engines will be so close together?

Wes, the little 25HP Suk that I am getting delivered today (less than 7 days from ordering it) from onlineoutboard.com comes with the controller, 6 gal fuel tank with fuel line, and 5 year factory warranty. There has been no mark up other than a slight price increase from when they first came out with the white version a few years ago. I also ordered the shift and throttle cables with service manual. When I ordered the motor I also paid extra for liftgate service, gallon of Suzuki motor oil and a oil change service kit (w/filter), it was just under $4600. I have contacted them a few times in the past few years and they have always been very helpful over the phone. The lady that answered the phone, same person a few years ago, stated that the motor comes with the draglink...I think. It was one of the questions I asked a few years ago and I will know for sure later today when the motor is dropped off.

Then Monday I will go to TPWD to register the motor and pay the sales tax, the joy of owning another motor.

Edit: the 25HP from onlineoutboard.com, does come with a 6.6 gal tank, fuel line with connections and bulb, tool kit, side mount remote control box and long electrical connection harness. It also comes with a short draglink so you can connect the steering cable to the motor.
Last edited by OrangeQuest on Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"that it isn't just an ordinary sort of boat. Sometimes it's a Boat, and sometimes it's more of an Accident. It all depends." "Depends on what?" "On whether I'm on the top of it or underneath it."
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fallguy1000
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Re: GT27 Build (Wes K)

Post by fallguy1000 »

OrangeQuest wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 10:52 am Twin engine boats are maneuvered with the throttles and not independent steering. Why wouldn't you want a tiebar when the engines will be so close together?

Wes, the little 25HP Suk that I am getting delivered today (less than 7 days from ordering it) from onlineoutboard.com comes with the controller, 6 gal fuel tank with fuel line, and 5 year factory warranty. There has been no mark up other than a slight price increase from when they first came out with the white version a few years ago. I also ordered the shift and throttle cables with service manual. When I ordered the motor I also paid extra for liftgate service, gallon of Suzuki motor oil and a oil change service kit (w/filter), it was just under $4600. I have contacted them a few times in the past few years and they have always been very helpful over the phone. The lady that answered the phone, same person a few years ago, stated that the motor comes with the draglink...I think. It was one of the questions I asked a few years ago and I will know for sure later today when the motor is dropped off.

Then Monday I will go to TPWD to register the motor and pay the sales tax, the joy of owning another motor.
silly me...of course he can throttle play, thanks for the correction Ken
My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

bklake
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Re: GT27 Build (Wes K)

Post by bklake »

Suzuki is the only one I know of that will ship a remote motor up to 30hp to your door. My 9.9 came with just about everything I need in the box. I was pretty surprised by how complete the package was. The only part I need to buy is a lifting eye. My Suzuki 25 V-twin had lifting eyes on the engine. I assumed motors came with them from the factory. Not the 9.9-20hp. I didn't ask but the cost to mount and rig a motor is not not cheap. You can save a few dollars there.

I bought from a local dealer because he was within $200 of the online places. I was willing to pay a little extra for local support. I had to pay sales tax on top of that. The tax man is going to get you one way or another. This particular dealer was perfectly happy to hand the box over to me and didn't give me any grief about warranty if I installed it. Not all dealers are like that. Online, these motors go in and out of stock all the time. Keep checking if they show sold out.

Rigging the 9.9 is virtually the same as my current 25. It is not as easy as it looks but totally within the skill set of someone that can build a boat. I was lucky to find a current rigging manual online. I mostly knew what to do, but it spelled out a couple of things I would have missed. The rigging manual is not included. Suzuki de-rates their motors by restricting the intake and computer programming. It's pretty easy to get them up to the max hp of the range. The dealer I bought from asked me when I was going to order the 20hp computer for my motor. Wasn't the least bit shy about it. He did say he heard from a guy who knows a guy that you should use the original computer to break it in, about 20 hours, and swap the original computer back in if it needs service. The computer will have a record of operation to show it was properly broken in.

I really like Suzuki outboards if you couldn't tell.

TomW1
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Re: GT27 Build (Wes K)

Post by TomW1 »

Wes you always use a tie rod on small outboard motors up to 5-600 combined HP, maybe even more but I have never been on a boat with over twin 300's The 3 ways to control steering is by the steering wheel, ahead on one motor reverse on the other and lower speed on one prop than the other. Here is a Seastar kit for up to twin 300HP motors for 22' lines https://www.fredwarner.net/product/seas ... -steering/ I don't think yu need something this heavy but calll the company and see what they suggest, since you have a heavy boat.

On the 29 1/2" width you have to mount your twin 25HP motors that will not be enough. That is the ABYC standard for a single motor 30". The standard requires 60" for twin motors. I had a chance to look up the regs today just to be sure. As I said in my first post a good aluminum welder may be able to weld a longer strip on which to mount the twin 25HP's. So what ever you do if you go the twin route you will need a wider mounting surface. :(

Ask any questions you may have. Especially since your platform does not fit twins.

Regards, Tom

Addition: Here are the two platform manufacturers that Jacques reccomends: https://www.stainlessmarine.com/shop/23 ... -white-12/ and https://www.armstrongnautical.com/armstrong-brackets/ They will both work with you to get you what you need, if you go twins, then sell your platform.
Restored Mirror Dinghy, Bought OD18 built by CL, Westlawn School of Yacht Design courses. LT US Navy 1970-1978

wkisting
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Re: GT27 Build (Wes K)

Post by wkisting »

Tom, are you talking about the minimum transom width perhaps with those 30" and 60" ABYC figures? I can't find minimum separation specs for 25hp outboards, but for the 150-200hp outboards, I found several resources suggesting the standard separation is around 29" on center. I'm assuming it would be less than that for the smaller motors, and one (non-authoritative) forum post I found suggested that a guy had mounted a pair of 25s at 19" on center to good effect.

There's actually a lot of debate about the "ideal" separation because further apart increases maneuverability/directional control by varying the thrust/direction on each motor, but closer together (up to a point) evidently yields better efficiency because with correct "toe in" the thrust from the two props converges about 100' to 200' behind the boat in a way that (allegedly) improves fuel efficiency and reduces drag (?). Not sure about all that, just repeating what I've come across as I've researched it.
Wes
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My build thread is here --> viewtopic.php?f=12&t=63644

wkisting
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Re: GT27 Build (Wes K)

Post by wkisting »

Oh, I think I just found it in the ABYC S-12 Transom and Engine Well specifications:
22" on center is listed as the MAX spacing for twin outboards up to 75hp.
transom specs spacing.JPG
transom specs spacing 2.JPG
transom specs spacing 2.JPG (26.55 KiB) Viewed 2376 times
And the overall width of the transom/engine well needs to be 55" for twin motors up to that same size/hp range. But with our engine bracket, it's moot because there is full/unobstructed clearance to either side of the bracket. So, unless I'm mistaken, I think that means we may be able to squeeze on two 25s at around 19-22" on center spacing and it may *just* fit. Of course, I'm still not certain that's the route I want to go, just keeping my options open.
Wes
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My build thread is here --> viewtopic.php?f=12&t=63644

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OrangeQuest
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Re: GT27 Build (Wes K)

Post by OrangeQuest »

Also consider that with twin engines you need the conduct for twin sets of cables and control wiring harnesses. FYI, flipping the throttle/shifter control arm to other side is very easy on the Suzuki controller. So very easy to use the controller the motors come with in a twin set up.

How do you feel about twin kill switch cables attached to yourself? 8O
"that it isn't just an ordinary sort of boat. Sometimes it's a Boat, and sometimes it's more of an Accident. It all depends." "Depends on what?" "On whether I'm on the top of it or underneath it."
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