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Purchased plans for my next project this week.....

http://www.zenithair.net/introduction-c ... uper-duty/


$650 for the plans
$289 for a bunch of different how to videos from a 3rd party that comes recommended by the company.

Total time spent building so far: 0 hours
Total cost so far: $939

A very different project to most here and not a bateau design, however it may be interesting to some here and I want to stay a part of the community until the next project after which I expect will be a design from here.

Zenith 750 STOL was developed from their 701 model, and the 750 Super Duty is developed further then from that.
They have been selling matched hole cnc cut kits for a couple years now, but haven't finished the scratch built plans yet, they expect to be done this winter.
They are sending me the assembly drawings and the blueprints for what is done so far to get me started. I will start building parts and then finish the rest once they have them finished.
We are still in the tent, but plan to build a heated shop next spring, so it will be slow going till next fall when I hope we will be going full speed on the project.

The plane is all aluminum which I am quite familiar with having worked with it my whole carrier, just never forming and making new pieces.
I think it is going to be a lot of fun!









https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCL3u-t6vcY

Awesome project! Keep us updated!

Living where you do I would think having a plane is mandatory. That will be a great project.

Saw this one coming...

Narfi, please stay on our Forum with this build!!! I will really enjoy watching the build of your plane!!!! Jeff

One of my favorite homebuilt designs/series. Do they not offer the 801 any longer?

Looks like a separate website...

http://www.zenair801.info

the 801 is kit only and a little big for my needs.

Gotcha; I'd forgotten the 801 was kit only.

I've got most of the parts needed to assemble Bearhawk wings fabricated and still in my shop; got sidetracked and have mostly lost interest in flying at this point.

Edit; I seem to recall that the CH designs were mostly/all made from 6061 instead of 2024 aluminum, is that still true of the 750SD? Also, will you be doing the pop rivet thing or using real rivets?

The bearhawk is a great choice, if it was just me it might have been at the top of my list but landon wouldn't be able to weld up the fuselage. (There is a steel cage around the zenith cockpit but it doesn't look or feel like a large part of the plane which I want landon involved with)

Yup it took me some time to get comfortable with the idea of Artex rivets, but it is designed for them and so structuraly they will be fine. It is actually part of the reason for choosing the zenith as well..... it will allow Landon to be more involved with the build and assembly.

I would have a difficult time choosing to use the blind rivets were I to build one, even knowing that it is designed for them. The only real downside to solid rivets is difficulty of installation. A lot of builders get hung up on that, but it's just a skill that can be learned like any other. I think one of the reasons most of the kits start you out with the tail section, is when you get the rest of the airplane finished, it's no big deal to get another tail kit and re-do all of the learning mistakes.

Would love to be working on mine again, but I've found I like that part a lot more than I do the flying part, so it isn't really a good use of time or money.

Just curious, do you have a big enough brake out there? I bought the plans from this guy a few years ago and they seem good, although I have not had the machining capability to actually build it as yet:

http://macsmachine.com/

There's some mill work and a little bit of lathe work. The rest is just cutting and welding.

I must admit that I'm a little confused.



I don't see where you'd put the downriggers and livewell.

OneWayTraffic wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:49 am I must admit that I'm a little confused.



I don't see where you'd put the downriggers and livewell.

I'm confused about what you are confused about.......

Definitely log the build here!

Way back in the day I was an EAA member and somewhere in the house I have the plans for the Ragwing RW2 plans by Roger Mann. Classed as an ultralight. Life and family got in the way and never got around to building it.

My dad was too young for WWII and had polio as a senior in HS but before that he worked summers at the Boeing plant as a sophomore and junior. I didn't know that until he was in his 60's. I was talking with my brother about blind rivets and Dad proceeded to tell us all about it. He also told the story of getting lost in the plant and Security found him. Grilled him for a couple hours on why he was in an area he wasn't supposed to be. Guess a Nazi spy could be as young as a teenager

Anyway, I'm seriously looking forward to your build!

Netpackrat wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:14 am Just curious, do you have a big enough brake out there? I bought the plans from this guy a few years ago and they seem good, although I have not had the machining capability to actually build it as yet:

http://macsmachine.com/

There's some mill work and a little bit of lathe work. The rest is just cutting and welding.

I have a 4ft brake at work and neighbor has a 12ft one. Eventually ill want one in my new shop but for now I'll just "borrow"

I spent some time cleaning up the mess I made in the tent last 3 years boat building, still need to organize some tools and get the dust off all the shelving/benches.

I have a 14'x35" strongback made from 2x8s and sheeted with plywood, thinking I might stick legs under it and a couple sheets of plywood to make a big table for working on this winter. Would give me a nice 6" overhang maybe reinforced with 2x4s or something.... or maybe just cut down some mdf and cover the existing size, the current sheeting is in pretty rough shape.



Started watching the homebuilt help videos, need to rip them to a usb stick before I scratch any of the disks. Was trying to think and I cant remember the last time I used disks for watching anything.



The plans arrived yesterday. Zenith included the SD assembly manual and the 750STOL blueprints with some parts in the horizontal and elevator pages highlighted. I assume those are the ones for me to start building, but sent roger an email to verify.



Starting to make a tentative list of stuff to order before I start, some tools some supplies, etc....



I found a list someone had made where they estimated the aluminum they would need for their 750stol,

9 sheets .016

10 sheets .020

3 sheets .025

2 sheets .032

1 sheet .040

1 sheet .063



1/8" and 5/32" avex countersunk rivets (how many of each to start with?)



1/8" and 5/32" clecos (how many of each?)



Pneumatic and hand rivet pullers with Zenair modified heads



Probably one of the Builders tool kits off Aircraft Spruce (is there a better place to look for the basics bundled together?)



Cleco Pliers

Metric squares and straight edges

Compass and Protractor

Assorted pencils and pens

Snips and olfa knife



Belt sander

Band Saw

Drill Press

Router Table

Vise



A couple extra sheets of 3/4" plywood for making form blocks



Once I have a pretty good list together and finished, then negotiations with my wife begin :p

I have laid the ground work by buying her a brand new retro scooter like she has always dreamed of, and she is expecting a big lump cost starting out this project, but still I need to be wise with it.






I own or have access to most of the tools at work already, but want to be doing most of this at home, starting in our boat building tent and moving into our new shop next fall when it is done.



The boats were pretty much just skill saw, table saw, hand held router and random orbital sander, I do have some misc. stuff xactos, dremil, hammers, wrenches, sockets, cordless drills, etc.... but nothing really focused toward sheet metal at home.



We have a local Aircraft Spruce warehouse (about 10% higher prices than the southern warehouses) so I will use it as my base price when shopping around for best prices. Not sure how realistic it is, but hoping to start with around $5-6k of supplies and keep the average going forward to under $750 a month.

Were it me, I would drag the strongback out of the tent and put it under a tarp until you are ready to start assembling wings, fuse etc. Make yourself some EAA Chapter 1000 work tables. Building from plans, you are going to be working on smaller parts for some time and the smaller tables will be easier to work with and make better use of your space.

For tools, I think Avery tools went out of business unfortunately but Brown Tool and the Yard Store are both quite good. The airframe specific tool kits are probably geared for kit builders so keep in mind you will need more stuff that kit guys will not.

If you have questions on form blocks, etc I may have some usable info when you get to that point since I made a complete set of Bearhawk wing and control surface ribs from scratch.

For cutting rib blanks out of your large sheets you will want a handheld power shear either air or electric. I would cut them out about 1/4” oversize from the sheet and then on the line with offset hand snips. Some people use a router with a template but it is loud and makes a huge mess, and easy to screw up a rib. Get a big scotch brite wheel and mount in bench grinder or buffing motor for deburring the rib edges, it’s the fastest method and does a good job.

A 3 seater? Cool. What fun. I learned what stol means now.

I will have to get back in practice, but I used to be really good with a pneumatic sheer, I would cut less than a blade width from the line, then second pass I could follow any curve perfectly as long as the cut was narrow enough not to bind between the blades.
The only time the router option sounds attractive is for parts with many duplicates, like the wing ribs. cut a stack of blanks and bolt the cutting template over the stack and route out several at a time.
All my experience is in repair with a little in rebuilding, so will be fun learning making all the parts new and clean to work with.

Looking at the options between electric cordless and pneumatic for both the sheer and the rivet puller, leaning pneumatic, but there are certainly some good arguments for electric.

@fallguy
STOL means bigger engine and less weight***
Extreme stol means stupidly bigger engine and stupidly reduced weight***.....

***(plus a plethora of other minor designs and/or modifications)

Router makes a horrible mess; throws chips everywhere. One key to keeping the parts nice is controlling the chips and keeping them out of your work area, otherwise they will cause scratches. I tried the router method briefly before settling on shears and snips.

An old friend showed up this weekend, so took him and his girlfriend out on the lake. (a lot more fun than cleaning and burning trash)

Another friend finished the video he made of the boat we made, which turned out pretty nice.(the video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHo8aSRDKH4



Yesterday after work I was able to finish cleaning out the tent from the last projects and get some of the fiberglass dust chased out.

Just need to put some legs under the old strongback to make the table and get it leveled.




Might start ordering stuff this afternoon.

You have a lot more room in that "tent" than I had assumed... Forget what I said about dragging the strongback outside. Since you'll be doing sheetmetal and presumably not so much with sanding or solvents for a while, perhaps a stove jack and a small wood stove to take the edge off this winter might be more of an option?

hehe, no heat in the plans, but who knows what the future holds

Home Depot: $950
Amazon: $900
Aircraft Spruce $5400

Not sure how I want to separate expenses, but some of the long term tools I don't want to count against the airplane, but still I wouldn't be buying them if I wasn't building it. So I will keep two numbers I guess..... Aircraft Spruce was mostly aluminum and rivets, but also ~1k worth of tools, I will count all the HD and amazon towards tools.

Total time spent building: 0 hours
Total Cost: $8190
Airplane + consumables + project specific costs: $5340
Tools, etc.. I will keep for future projects: $2850

Next up getting some legs under the table and setting up all the tools when they arrive.
I need to make a rack for storing all the aluminum I just purchased as well.
Need to make some flanging dies similar to this,
Something I have been thinking about, I do want to prime everything. I guess it is controversial, but I have had to clean and replace lots of aluminum during my carrier due to corrosion, so it is something I want to do.
Is there a good, thin, cost effective, epoxy primer that comes in multiple colors? would be nice to look inside a wing or tail section and be able to see the different parts contrasted in different colors.

If I remember right from my helicopter maintenance days, zinc chromate is what you want for aluminum.

BB Sig wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:05 pm If I remember right from my helicopter maintenance days, zinc chromate is what you want for aluminum.

Its gone through a few epa versions since then, but yes thats a good option. Not what I want though as it's not chemical resistant. Thats why I'll be researching a good thin application epoxy primer.

narfi wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:05 pm Need to make some flanging dies similar to this,

flangedies2.jpg

That's not absolutely necessary... I flanged all of my lightening holes using a hardwood stick with a slot cut in it. Even using the dies, you'll probably still need the stick to even the flanges out after you press them in. And you only have to make the one tool; not a set of dies for each size of lightening hole.

Something I have been thinking about, I do want to prime everything. I guess it is controversial, but I have had to clean and replace lots of aluminum during my carrier due to corrosion, so it is something I want to do.
Is there a good, thin, cost effective, epoxy primer that comes in multiple colors? would be nice to look inside a wing or tail section and be able to see the different parts contrasted in different colors.

BB Sig wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:05 pm If I remember right from my helicopter maintenance days, zinc chromate is what you want for aluminum.

It's been a few years since I looked into where the "state of the art" in corrosion control stands, but you can't get much better than Poly Fiber epoxy primer over alodine (now called "Bonderite") conversion coating. And that's also the process we follow on the heavy iron (not that specific brand of primer though) when we have to do sheetmetal work. If you want to really be sure, you can install your rivets "wet" with primer. That's basically what I did when I was still actively building mine... Alodine followed by epoxy primer, rivets wet with epoxy primer, a wet coat of same between faying surfaces. The one exception to that being my spar caps in the rear; since they were 6061 (which has good inherent corrosion resistance) and not 2024 (which does not), I didn't bother with the alodine on those pieces. IIRC, I only assembled them with epoxy between faying surfaces, rivets wet, with the intention of using a final overall coat of epoxy primer after the spar was complete. The main spar caps, I used a different primer (that went on thinner) over the alodined 2024 spar caps with the plan of assembling them wet with epoxy primer. Never got as far as assembling the main spars though.

The main thing is to do something... most of the corroded airframes you have repaired probably got little or no anti-corrosion treatment at the factory. Also if your airframe is built from 6061t6 like many other Heintz designs seem to be, I wouldn't bother with the alodine since it is pretty resistant on its own. Maybe not even with the primer, if I were sure I wouldn't ever make a seaplane of it.

There are also corrosion control compounds that are sprayed inside structure after assembly (ACF-50, etc), But it's probably a good idea to wait until after the exterior has been painted before using that stuff.

I will really enjoy this build Narfi!!! Jeff

couple sheets of aluminum and a few tools showed up today. Unfortunately no time to play with them.

Got the rack for the aluminum put together with a bonus shelf on top.

This is going to be a cool project to watch!

Fuzz wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:13 am This is going to be a cool project to watch!

I couldn’t agree more!

Turned the 3x14' strongback into a 4x16' table.
Unboxed and assembled the bandsaw, belt sander, drill press, and vise.
Don't think I want the tools permenantly mounted to the table in my smallish work area so have them setto the side for now except when I am using them. Will probably mount them on individual castered tables once the shop is built.

I went looking on YouTube for information on the metal brake I posted about earlier in the thread, and I found the following video by a guy building an earlier version of Narfi's airplane:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7gyrMqrG00

Nothing in the video is going to be a real surprise to a practicing general aviation A&P like Narfi, but it should give everybody else an idea of some of the challenges involved for the majority of builders who are making this aircraft without access to commercially built sheet metal machines. Not being familiar with details of the design, it was interesting to me to learn that there are a few parts of the airframe that even the more common 8' brakes can't handle, so a CH750 builder needs access to a 10' brake. I thought that Bearhawk plans builders had it rough, needing to get access to an 8' brake for our spars and trailing edges.

Another point is that Narfi's build is a heavier duty version of the 750, so presumably some of the parts mentioned in the video as being particularly difficult to make, may be even thicker material in his airframe.

Dry video but lots of good info.

Fridays post,

Still waiting on aluminum.
I drew out the end rib for the stabilizer last night, will need to get comfortable with metric. Looking back I should have done my boats in metric just for the experience as the designer provides in both imperial and metric for his designs.

Router table arrived and despite my research didn't match my router, so ordered a new router from Amazon. Wife didn't even complain...... perhaps because I added the shoes from her wishlist to the same order????

Jokes aside she is really supportive even though she doesn't like flying, she knows its good for me and Landon.


Much like I started researching what plane we would be building 3+ years ago when we started building the canoe and powerboat, we have started work on ideas to narrow down our next big project for when the plane is finished.

A 40+ ft live aboard catamaran. The goal to finish around when Landon leaves the nest which will be pushing it but doable. (Give or take a few years)

Got a few minutes in the tent before needing to help with Landons birthday party.
Need to sand the bottom peice to match the top one, then radius the bending edges and add a 5% spring back to the edges, then sand out the fluting recesses.

I know the process, but doing it first time is intimidating, I think ill get comfortable with it pretty quickly though. This is a good first piece.

Now what I got done on Saturday (might be a week or two till I can really start pushing on the project, need to get ready for winter)

First two parts done, the stabilizer end ribs.
Did the full process to see if I liked it even though it would have been quicker to just draw them out and cut them out.

So I made a set of forming blocks(left and right) with 5 degrees bend back allowance and 1/8" bending radius routed in.
Made a set of cutting templates and used the router to cut out two blanks of .025 aluminum 6061t6

The cutting templates were made from tracing the form blocks so the tooling holes match perfectly and I used 1/4" bolts to clamp everything together through the tooling holes and used a rubber mallet to bend over the flanges and a wooden handle and a rubber coated small steel handle to bend in the fluting. I used a small hobby size steel hammer to gently form over the nose area, I was worried about them but it turned out OK.

Once done and removed I laid them down on the table and they were really flat so no need to adjust the fluting, not bad for my first try

Roughly 6 hours drawing out, cutting and shapping the forming blocks and cutting templates and making the parts. I think I can go much faster on the next ones.


Total time spent building: 6 hours
Total Cost: $8190
Airplane + consumables + project specific costs: $5340
Tools, etc.. I will keep for future projects: $2850

Cool stuff Narfi!!!! Jeff

That's kind of a blunt airfoil. Definitely a slightly different process from what I did... All of the Bearhawk ribs were formed on one oak block, no right or left. Attach to the spars with riveted angles, not bent flanges. Springback was removed with a rubber mallet freehand. Later builders found that MDF worked just as well for the rib forms as the hardwood that the designer initially recommended. Some builders put metal bushings in the tooling holes of their form blocks so they could drill and trace or router as part of the same process. I used a transfer punch when I traced my flanges and drilled the tooling holes later.

These are for the stabalizer not the wing, but the wing will use the same process, just larger. I hadn't thought it looked that blunt, but maybe the elevator will put it in a better perspective?

Those are for the stab? Dang. Most of the GA aircraft I have had anything to do with (which haven't been a lot) were tube and fabric, so much thinner empennage structure. But of course, slow flight is the name of the game with the 750.

I have nothing to contribute, but I will enjoy seeing progress.

I recently decided a tent was a must as well for the Skoota.

Best of luck.

fallguy1000 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:03 am
I recently decided a tent was a must as well for the Skoota.

The shelterlogic has held up very well, only problem is I wouldn't even consider heating it :/


-----------------


Ordered some zipties, unibits, 48" straight edge with metric markings, a set of smaller steel metric rulers, a cheap set of drill bits for random things, and a brass hammer with one brass side and one nylon side.
Total $86 in the tools column.

Someone should design a homebuilt called "Amazon Basics"........... Just think of the partnership and marketing potential.....

Total time spent building: 6 hours
Total Cost: $8276
Airplane + consumables + project specific costs: $5340
Tools, etc.. I will keep for future projects: $2936

narfi wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:56 am

fallguy1000 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:03 am
I recently decided a tent was a must as well for the Skoota.

The shelterlogic has held up very well, only problem is I wouldn't even consider heating it :/


-----------------


Ordered some zipties, unibits, 48" straight edge with metric markings, a set of smaller steel metric rulers, a cheap set of drill bits for random things, and a brass hammer with one brass side and one nylon side.
Total $86 in the tools column.

Someone should design a homebuilt called "Amazon Basics"........... Just think of the partnership and marketing potential.....

Total time spent building: 6 hours
Total Cost: $8276
Airplane + consumables + project specific costs: $5340
Tools, etc.. I will keep for future projects: $2936

No heating in mine either. Too big, too many holes. It is to keep precip away.

I could bullet heat with 100,000 btu if I was desperate, but I'd have some co concerns. If I do run it for say an ice storm that'd be the only reason. Mine is 30x40 semicircle, so the hoops is like 46 feet. 1800 feet of uni sulated wall here in Minnesota is a dealbreaker.

Been busy in life and aluminum still hasn't arrived.(i have a couple sheets but the first parts Roger gave me to make are all .016 and I dont have that) Turned 41 yesterday, been yelling people im ready to start the second 1/3rd of my life now.

Made it out to the tent yesterday for an hour and got most of the first flanging die done.
They will be used to flange all the different sized lightning holes in different ribs and parts throughout the build.

If Eric still had his shop and was active on here I would probably be asking him for a quote on a nice set of metal dies made up. I need 4 sizes, 51, 65, 95, and 115mm. The plywood ones I am making will work fine, but some polished steel ones would be amazing.
Thats the 51mm hole.
Not sure exactly how I am going to finish it yet. Obviously I need to attach the two male parts together, probably use some epoxy I have. But then it sticks past the back side of the female part, so I am thinking I will double up the depth of the female part to give room for the guide section of the male part will fit.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

It was all easy to do, most of the hour was spent trying to wrap my head around it and then a few minutes doing.


Total time spent building: 7 hours
Total Cost: $8276
Airplane + consumables + project specific costs: $5340
Tools, etc.. I will keep for future projects: $2936

I think I was asking too much of the little circle cutter attachment for the dremel. The plastic threads started giving and I ended up with wobbley holes with steps in them.........

Made myself up a redneck circle cutter for my little handheld router (bigger router showed up and is mounted in the table now) and used a broken 1/8" bit as a pin. Worked really well and made some nice clean circles inside and out.

Epoxied the matching peices together in our mudroom entrance to the house since its too cold out in the tent. Frosting nightly and termination dust in the mountains is getting pretty low here.

Cleaned up the holes with the largest flap wheels that would fit chucked up in the drill press and the outside of the circles carefully by hand on the belt sander.

Routed the inside 45° on the table mounted router, fun to use it for the first time.

It all looks good but I am worried about the size..... they might be to bulky and ill have to cut them down smaller once I start using them inside the ribs..... Will have to see how much clearance I have inside the flanges. Its currently quite a bit bigger than the zenith specifications for steel manufactured ones.

I did a test peice and it worked but I got it a little cocked in the hole hitting it and the male die split separated between plys (not my epoxy joint) so ill need to epoxy it back together and be super careful not to hit them crooked.

Perhaps I should back the female side with another solid peice and drill a center hole to use a bold to squeeze them together instead of "wacking" them with a mallet. I dont have a press......


Roughly 3 more hours.

Total time spent building: 10 hours
Total Cost: $8276
Airplane + consumables + project specific costs: $5340
Tools, etc.. I will keep for future projects: $2936

Epoxied the separated peice back together as well as solid backing plates for the female peices. Cut them down to within a few mm of the specified OD so there shouldn't be any issue fitting inside any rib flanges now. My fear of strength seems unfounded, even cut down they seem pretty stout. Used my new drill press to drill center holes through each peice to use a bolt and washers for clamping pressure. Fun using the new tools, but they are cheaper versions than I am used to from work, there isn't much travel on the drill and I couldn't go through the full stack, but did get far enough to mark the bottom of the F peice through the male plug then drilled it separately.

More clecos and pneumatic rivet puller with zenith machined heads showed up yesterday so hopefully my aluminum starts trickling in and I can start making visible progress.


Roughly 1 more hour over 2 days.

Total time spent building: 11 hours
Total Cost: $8276
Airplane + consumables + project specific costs: $5340
Tools, etc.. I will keep for future projects: $2936

For liability reasons, you won't be getting advice from me, but I am glad to see you taking on such a bold project. My neighbor has a Rutan ez something or other and he says he laminated something wrong years ago and quit for fear of catastrophic error or children or some such.

Lots of stories of guys who built their own plane and few it for years, then when they got old chopped it up to prevent someone else from flying it when they died.

Rutan really got the whole homebuilding composite planes popular and I really like his designs and the sci-fi romantic feel they bring. But that was an era without internet and easily followed tutorials and blogs etc..... and much less ability to communicate with a designer or to know how well their designs had been tested.
The advantage to that era was that people were less fearful of their shadows than now and more likely to attempt something so impossible as building your own airplane.

My income is derived from 20 years of experience and the ability and qualifications in inspecting just this sort of structure. I do not have the mathematical and engineering education to design something like this safely, but I (feel like) am overqualified to build something like this according to blueprints and plans. As cocky as I may feel about it though, I have access to and will use a few eyes with much much much more experience and wisdom than me.

Good stuff Narfi!!!! I will really enjoy having an airplane build on the Forum!!! Jeff

Made the cutting templates and form blocks for the rest of the horizontal and elevator parts this weekend. Still waiting on the .016

Sent an email to Roger asking for more parts to make.

Roughly 6hrs
Total time spent building: 17 hours
Total Cost: $8276
Airplane + consumables + project specific costs: $5340
Tools, etc.. I will keep for future projects: $2936

Getting colder, but at least with this project I can put on a coat and gloves and still do something. When working on the boat I had to close up in September till spring because it was too cold for epoxy.

Got a lab coat I've been wearing its a little snug over the winter gear but still fits until I add another layer. Has worked well at keeping my cloths less dusty with sanding and routing the aluminum.

Talked to Roger yesterday, he still doesn't have a big list of parts for me yet but said I could do the flaperon, slats, and rear wing ribs.

Took me about 2 hours last night to make the cutting templates and form blocks for the slats ribs. In my head thats a 20min project..... but in reality im not as efficient as I imagine :p
Total time spent building: 19 hours
Total Cost: $8276
Airplane + consumables + project specific costs: $5340
Tools, etc.. I will keep for future projects: $2936

Narfi, how cold is it now? Jeff

The mountain is white, and the puddles are hard.

Got it!!! You guys take good care!! Jeff

Dunno how cold it is out where Narfi is at, but it's unseasonably $#%*^& cold in Anchorage right now. Last night had a badly cut tire on a returning aircraft, and a broke bird already in the hangar so had to change it on the ramp. Not too big of a deal even with the cold, but got the wheel off only to discover the brake leaking. Tire AND brake change plus cold ramp plus wind chill equals no fun at all. Ended up putting my heavy Carhartt bibs on. I have never put them on in October before. I only brought them back to work for the season a week ago, just in case.

As far as working efficiently goes, sheet metal building/fabrication is a related but different skill set compared to sheet metal repair. Another thing is it is difficult to be efficient when you are building aircraft in quantities of one. As you get into repetitive tasks like making wing ribs, etc, you will hit your rhythm and eventually not waste much time. Then as you tackle different parts you get to figure out the most efficient ways of making them all over again. Often the simple and tedious way is more efficient overall than spending more time getting tooled up to make something using a more time efficient but tooling intensive method. Other times it is worth tooling up even if it is the slower way of doing something. I went to the trouble of making drilling jigs for the multitude of rib stiffeners the bearhawk has, even though it slowed me down a little making them, because when it was time to do alodine and primer for corrosion control, I had bags of interchangeable parts that could be batch processed, rather than a series of matched sets I had to keep straight, so it saved me a bunch of time overall.

I use to work on CH-47s "phasing" the aircraft. Think 200 hour check. I was the bottom of the aircraft guy and changed a lot of brakes and tires. I'd hate to do it in the cold and dark. Headlamps are for sure your friend...

Great project and just keep eating the elephant one bite at a time.

It was suggested on the homebuiltaircraft forum that the skins will fit tighter if temperatures stay the same when drilling and riviting so the aluminum isn't expanding and contracting. I'll try to do my drilling and assembly at steady temperatures, but should be ok making the parts in the cold.

3 more hours got me the cutting templates and bending forms for the flaperons.
Total time spent building: 22 hours
Total Cost: $8276
Airplane + consumables + project specific costs: $5340
Tools, etc.. I will keep for future projects: $2936

Nice work Narfi!!!! Jeff

It has been pretty cold this last week, cold enough to keep me from working out in the tent but it significantly warmed up to around 25-28ish F which is warm enough to get our first snow to stick for the winter.

I was able to take off my jacket and just wore a thick sweatshirt with a labcoat over to keep most of the dust off.

2 more hours got the cutting templates and form blocks done for the rear wing ribs.

My wife came out and helped me unroll the aluminum and get it into the rack. Left out a sheet of .016 to start cutting up as well as the .020 I have already cut into. I had made the two stabilizer end ribs, but for the superduty there are actually 2 end ribs on both sides as the forward spar doesn't extend to the tip.




Total time spent building: 24 hours
Total Cost: $8276
Airplane + consumables + project specific costs: $5340
Tools, etc.. I will keep for future projects: $2936

Nice work Narfi but 25 is still way too cold for me!!! Jeff

Jeff wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:49 am Nice work Narfi but 25 is still way too cold for me!!! Jeff

hehe, its perfect..... any warmer and you can't stay dry, colder and you need more layers than are convenient for working.(non manual labor)

narfi wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:56 am hehe, its perfect..... any warmer and you can't stay dry, colder and you need more layers than are convenient for working.(non manual labor)

It got warmer :/ nasty wet weekend, now we have icy mud



About 10 more hours this weekend got some visable progress.
Cut out and bent two more stabilizer end ribs since each side uses 2 instead of one with the partial length spar. Then cut and bent all the rest of the horizontal and elevator ribs as well as the rear wing ribs.
Still need to cut and flange the lightning holes in the wing ribs, tool kit that has the hole cutter from aircraft spruce is still backordered so may end up with another ghetto set-up since it worked so well making the dies.
1/4" end bearing router bit is supposed to get here from amazon this week, tracking says it was in state Friday. Then I can cut out the slat and flaperon ribs, they are smaller peices with tighter radius flanges so the 3/8" I have been using is too big for them.

The cutting and bending of all the ribs went very quick and easy imo, I probably spent more time making the templates and forms, but well worth the time and effort, I am quite pleased with how they look. (Esp. Knowing how much(textron?) Piper, Cessna and Beech charge for each little peice :p

Total time spent building: 34 hours
Total Cost: $8276
Airplane + consumables + project specific costs: $5340
Tools, etc.. I will keep for future projects: $2936

Very cool Narfi!!! Jeff

About 3.5hrs in the tent.
Cut the lightning holes in all the rear wing ribs and flanged them. Used my router with a peice of plywood screwed to it as my hole cutter with 1/4" holes and a bolt as my pivot point in the tooling holes.

First hole I cut the center hole to the larger hole dimensions so that rib was scrap..
After finishing I cut out a replacement rib blank and bent it over the forming blocks. I had my ghetto hole cutter set to the smallest hole size so cut it first...... however it was only supposed to have the 2 larger holes cut in it so reinforcement could be riveted to it on the fuel bay..

so in the end I have 1 extra rib(I still flanged it so it is a good completed rib) and one scrap rib.

Flanging with the dies was easy just using a rubber mallet. I was just careful to keep them square and hold pressure down on the male die once started to prevent it bouncing, I didnt just wail away at it with the mallet but more controlled hits mostly centered to start, then finished off around the parameter once down mostly formed.

On the zenith forum someone posted yesterday having issues with his ribs being warped after hand flanging(not using a die) so I payed close attention to mine to see the difference.

You can see it is stretched some but snaps back straight when the edge flanges are held at 90° so I think it is ok.

All in all, not bad for an evening after work


Total time spent building: 37.5 hours
Total Cost: $8276
Airplane + consumables + project specific costs: $5340
Tools, etc.. I will keep for future projects: $2936

Nice work Narfi!!! Jeff

Those look nice. Yeah, there is a bit of a knack and some post flanging stretching needed when hand flanging. I have been an advocate of that method due to not needing to make one time use tooling, although if I were doing it today, I might go with the flange dies since I have a lathe to make them now.

I am pretty happy with the wooden die project, it was fun to make them and I think saved me time even already.
Last night in 3.5hrs with the mistake pieces I cut and flanged 48 holes. How long would it have taken me to flange them by hand?

Probably double that before subtracting any time spent making the dies, but it’s been 20 years. Some of the Bearhawk builders made dies, seemed like most of us used the sticks. Now everyone buys the kit and they start out farther than I got when they open the box.

2.5hrs last night.
Smaller end bearing router bits came in so cut out all the slat and flaperon blanks..
Cut out all the flaperon blanks individually which took most of the time then got impatient and stacked up all the slat blanks to cut at the same time. Not a good idea with cheap bearing bits... I promptly burned it up and blew up the bearing. Ill probably need to redo one or two of them as they weren't quite aligned in the stack and missing some of the edges..

Lesson learned,, all things in moderation. Maybe 3 or 4 stacked to save time but dont try to cut 10 blanks at once with cheap tools.

Still happy with the results though

Total time is up to 40hrs or a standard work week. As a hobby it feels like I have got a lot done, but if I was on the clock I might be ashamed to have so little to show......
It is a hobby though so all good

Total time spent building: 40 hours
Total Cost: $8276
Airplane + consumables + project specific costs: $5340
Tools, etc.. I will keep for future projects: $2936

Again, really nice work Narfi!!!! Jeff

2.5hrs got all the slat and flaperon ribs bent.
1hr yesterday got the wing nose rib forms and cutting templates ready, but while it was in the teens F° the wind was cutting through the tent pretty well and mechanics gloves just weren't enough :/ 5° this morning so progress may slow down a bit if my body goes into hibernation mode. Will see
Total time spent building: 43.5 hours
Total Cost: $8276
Airplane + consumables + project specific costs: $5340
Tools, etc.. I will keep for future projects: $2936

Very cool Narfi!!!! Jeff

1hr was all my fingers could take of the cold last night, hot coffee and rum don't seem to help the toes and fingers much. Got the wing butt nose rib formers done. Picture includes the main nose rib I did Sunday, still need to grind the fluting in them but that's pretty quick.

Someone posted yesterday(not on this forum) stating I would spend 10s of thousands of dollars and never have a flying airplane. I wanted to quickly address that in saying that while someone should be aware of their limitations before starting a project like this, I took all precautions before beginning to ensure I was prepared to see the project through. I set myself a reasonable timeline 3yrs(which I currently have a hard time seeing how I can drag it out that long) and a commitment to plug away at it one bite at a time. It is fun for me, and even when it is painfully cold, I still want to be working on it and will push to put in that hour or two each day because I enjoy it and it is therapeutic for the mind and body to end a day with no stress, just focusing on a fun productive project.
Total time spent building: 44.5 hours
Total Cost: $8276
Airplane + consumables + project specific costs: $5340
Tools, etc.. I will keep for future projects: $2936

It's true that a lot of people start and never finish such projects, but that certainly doesn't mean that nobody finishes. Your progress is quick and I'd wager a $20 bill that you'll hit your timeline. Thanks for sharing.

Years back I started building a Corbin Junior Ace two seater and never finished it. In my defense, I had some kidney issues and lost my medical and it kinda defeated the purpose of building an airplane if I couldn't fly the damn thing.

gstanfield wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:45 pm It's true that a lot of people start and never finish such projects, but that certainly doesn't mean that nobody finishes. Your progress is quick and I'd wager a $20 bill that you'll hit your timeline. Thanks for sharing.

Years back I started building a Corbin Junior Ace two seater and never finished it. In my defense, I had some kidney issues and lost me medical and it kinda defeated the purpose of building an airplane if I couldn't fly the damn thing.

I am currently healthy so not something I have researched much, but have you looked into the options of LSA and Basic Med?

narfi wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:29 pm

gstanfield wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:45 pm It's true that a lot of people start and never finish such projects, but that certainly doesn't mean that nobody finishes. Your progress is quick and I'd wager a $20 bill that you'll hit your timeline. Thanks for sharing.

Years back I started building a Corbin Junior Ace two seater and never finished it. In my defense, I had some kidney issues and lost my medical and it kinda defeated the purpose of building an airplane if I couldn't fly the damn thing.

I am currently healthy so not something I have researched much, but have you looked into the options of LSA and Basic Med?

That was twenty years ago and I was too broke to keep chasing it so I gave up. The kidneys turned out to be OK, but I had mentally moved on and gotten into motorcycles hard core so I really don't miss it much. I've given thought to building an ultralight or buying a PPC, but in all honesty I don't have the time, energy or funds to add another hobby to my life!

gstanfield wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:38 pm
That was twenty years ago and I was too broke to keep chasing it so I gave up. The kidneys turned out to be OK, but I had mentally moved on and gotten into motorcycles hard core so I really don't miss it much. I've given thought to building an ultralight or buying a PPC, but in all honesty I don't have the time, energy or funds to add another hobby to my life!

Glad you are doing well.
You are right we need to keep our hobbies within reason, and balanced with our life and budgeted with time and money. Too many and you cant fully enjoy any of them, something I think the person I mentioned does not fully grasp We have worked a lot over the last few years to really simplify our lives and that allows us to focus on higher value projects in life and hobbies.

2.5hrs
Made the form and cutting blocks for the wing root ribs and ground out the fluting grooves in it and the nose rib blocks I had forgot to grind them into.

The root ribs top flange goes from 60° at the nose to 90° at the rear spar. I puzzled over best way to do that and decided to just make the forms like all the others and free handedly not beat it down all the way at the front. As easy as cutting out and bending is once the forms are made, I can try a couple if I mess up one or two, and I only need a good left and a good right, so not worth trying to overthink the formers..... We will see

Total time spent building: 47 hours
Total Cost: $8276
Airplane + consumables + project specific costs: $5340
Tools, etc.. I will keep for future projects: $2936

0 hours
Went to start building the rear bulkheads last night and found a contradiction in the dimensions, so called it early and binge watched some shows my son was wanting to watch.

Called Roger this morning and he is looking into it as well as more parts for me to build.
Anyone know what scratch builders are doing for the tips of the flaperons, slats and wings? they all seem to be plastic or fiberglass parts. Just thinking ahead....

2hrs.
Made the cutting and forming blocks for the two rear bulkheads. Could have probably freehanded them in less time, but if I mess one up during assembly and need to remake one, or inevitably damage one during the life of the plane, it will save me time in making a replacement and be a "quick" simple fix.
Total time spent building: 49 hours
Total Cost: $8276
Airplane + consumables + project specific costs: $5340
Tools, etc.. I will keep for future projects: $2936

Most if not all of the Bearhawk scratch builders used fiberglass for the wing tips, built one off over male molds. Prior to the advent of the quick build kits, there was a builder who made a more production oriented mold, and he sold sets of tips to other builders. No reason you couldn't do them out of aluminum, but the skills required are not common. Basically you make a male "buck" the shape of the tip, and then form to fit from sheet, welding as necessary.

This is a fender in steel rather than a wing tip in aluminum, but the basic process is the same. Biggest difference is you would probably be making an upper and lower half joined by welding at the ridge of the buck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ktj5DWaKXYI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYK8Tn3uNaI

He relies pretty heavily on the English wheel, but it's not the only way. Building an all aluminum aircraft, there is something pretty special about having wing tips and other fairings also of aluminum rather than glass, but the tangible benefits don't really outweigh the difficulty.

@Netpackrat Fiberglass one off seems to be the way I am leaning, at least for now......

Friday the last of my aluminum came in and my wife helped me unroll and put it in the rack.
I went threw my drawings to see which pieces to leave out on the table for the next parts and discovered a huge mistake I had made.
The rear wing ribs are supposed to be .025 and I had made them from the same .016 as the tail ribs.........
In all it's not a huge setback, a couple hours of work and 2/3s of a sheet of .016 aluminum wasted. If that's the worst mistake of the project ill be happy

4hrs friday night cutting all new rear wing rib blanks, nose ribs, and root ribs (all .025 this time) and the two rear fuselage bulkheads(one is .040 and one is .032)

(Not counting the bulkhead parts, that is a full 4x12 sheet of .025 shown in the picture, all wing ribs from one piece)

2.5hrs and 3.5 hrs Sunday bending them all. 2 bulkheads, 14 rear wing ribs, 20 nose ribs, and two sets of two root ribs. The wing ribs are a larger front radius but it felt like the .025 forms better than the .016 on the tail pieces, the thinner stock wanted to fold more while the thicker could be (pushed around) easier with a brass hammer.

My boy even came out to help bend some of the parts which made me proud.

I had one flute crack out so needed to make one extra rib, but not bad for the mass production over the weekend.

Just need to cut and flange all the lightning holes.

That's all the parts I have from Roger to build so far, he is working on getting me the rudder drawings next.


Total time spent building: 59 hours
Total Cost: $8276
Airplane + consumables + project specific costs: $5340
Tools, etc.. I will keep for future projects: $2936

Wow, serious fun, but serious QA demands.

Nice work Narfi & Landon!!!! Jeff

Good that you are catching your errors, stinks about the wasted material given the logistics of getting it out there. Back when I was still going to EAA chapter meetings occasionally, there was one held at the home of a guy who was finishing up a Pietenpol Aircamper build which he had on display in his front yard. I spotted a cracked wing strut fitting which I pointed out. . Insufficient relief at the corner of a bend IIRC.

1.5hrs cut the lightning holes in all the ribs, nose ribs and root ribs. Need to clean them up and flange them now.

Total time spent building: 60.5 hours
Total Cost: $8276
Airplane + consumables + project specific costs: $5340
Tools, etc.. I will keep for future projects: $2936

Still sore from our villages annual "Turkey Bowl" having lost so much weight this was my first year really running and catching instead of just playing on the line. Felt great but I'm guessing I'll never be young again :p

2hrs cleaning up the holes and 1 hour flanging all the holes.
The plywood separated on the smaller die, so epoxied it and have a few of those holes left but will be just 15min or so.

Landon came out to help but couldn't get enough oomph on the mallet so we tried a couple with clamps, learned about leverage on making handles longer but still not practical so he watched me beat the rest out with the mallet.

He likes visiting at work and trying out the different cockpits and getting ideas and dreaming.


Total time spent building: 63.5 hours
Total Cost: $8276
Airplane + consumables + project specific costs: $5340
Tools, etc.. I will keep for future projects: $2936

Cool stuff Narfi!!!! Jeff

What airframe is he sitting in there?

Stinson JR SR

Here is an old picture of one,

30min
Epoxied the male plug back together and flanged the last of the holes. Very last one and the plywood on the male plug failed in a new layer (not my epoxy joint)
Not sure if there is more flanging to do that size or not, but if there is I will probably make a new male piece from solid wood instead of plywood.

Called Roger this morning and he is still waiting on Rudder drawings for me, so I'm on hold for a little bit.



Total time spent building: 64 hours
Total Cost: $8276
Airplane + consumables + project specific costs: $5340
Tools, etc.. I will keep for future projects: $2936

It's funny how much odd stuff ends up out in the bush.

I got the blueprints for the Rudder from Roger this week but in the middle of making a storage bed w/ bookshelves and secret cave for my son so probably cant start till next week.



Ordered the 3/4x3/4 angle I needed, just a few inches needed for the rudder but Roger told me I would need roughly 20ft for the entire project, I bought a 25ft stick cut in half. Also have some 1/8" aluminum coming, will need some for the rudder horn.

total for that order $275 (including $30 delivery)



Ordered Some aluminum prep and some primer = $252

I decided to just go with primer I know, PPG 910-704 Super Koropon, it sprays easy, goes on super thin, and produces a hard chemical resistant shell.



Total time spent building: 64 hours

Total Cost: $8803

Airplane + consumables + project specific costs: $5867

Tools, etc.. I will keep for future projects: $2936

Finally got most of Landon's bed made, still waiting on some magnets and hinges, and will need to paint it (black then scuffed up and clear coated for the old distressed look) once reassembled in his room. For not knowing anything about carpentry and making it up as I went along I am pretty happy with it, just not with how long it took :p


Was able to start on the rudder yesterday, took about 5 hours to make 7 parts and decide that I needed more dimensions/info to make the rest.

Tapered spars are easy, just make them a few inches too long each direction and then cut out the right size from the middle when done.
I borrowed a neighbor's 12ft brake and it's got some quirks, not sure if it's just old or needs some adjusting, it bends sharper on the ends than the middle and doesn't clamp over center, the clamp arms need to be 'balanced' in the clamped position and it's a pain getting both clamped without one springing open.

I got pretty close on my angles for the spar and doublers and just tweaked it a little with the hand seamer back at the tent when done.
The hinge brackets were easy as was the little spar fairing and angle tab.

Was my first time cutting sheet metal with the ulfa knife and it worked really well, though took quite a few passes for the .040, the thinner sheet cut really easy.
I sent Roger an email listing the rest of the dimensions I need for the ribs and skins and horn. Will give him a call as well.

Total time spent building: 69 hours
Total Cost: $8803
Airplane + consumables + project specific costs: $5867
Tools, etc.. I will keep for future projects: $2936

Narfi, that is going to be one nice bed for Landon!!! Jeff

I am sure Narfi has a good reason for not posting any progress on his build. I check daily for the latest info as I am fascinated with his build.

DAVE LUDICK wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:18 am I am sure Narfi has a good reason for not posting any progress on his build. I check daily for the latest info as I am fascinated with his build.

Yes... Still waiting on more plans from zenith. I knew when I started they weren't ready yet, but I'm sure I'm more ancey than you to be making progress

Meanwhile while waiting I am trying to stay ocupied with researching for building a yacht to retire on after the plane is built and planning how to convert my son's canoe into a sailing trimaran this spring. As well as working on furniture etc... as out house renovations are nearing an end and we will be moving back in. (Currently living in our basement rental while work is going on) So I am still staying somewhat busy, just not specifically on the project I want to be on :p

narfi wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:12 am ...out house renovations are nearing an end and we will be moving back in.

I knew you Alaskans were a tough lot but living in an outhouse is next-level commitment, hats off!

VT_Jeff wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:23 am
I knew you Alaskans were a tough lot but living in an outhouse is next-level commitment, hats off!

IMO it's easier to walk to work every day than keep stuff running better for health and stress as well.

narfi wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:30 am IMO it's easier to walk to work every day than keep stuff running better for health and stress as well.

Glad you're able to do it! Is it 6 miles, uphill both ways? It's clearly in 5' of snow.

Same here Dave!!! Jeff

VT_Jeff wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:53 am Glad you're able to do it! Is it 6 miles, uphill both ways? It's clearly in 5' of snow.

at least!!!! that picture was taken from our 2nd floor deck! (not really)

I just realized what you were talking about my typo of outhouse, I will leave it for the humor though
-2f this morning but I did get the Honda working after lots of priming and wearing the battery down and finally getting it pull started. I do normally walk but scheduled to get my 2nd shot today so need to be able to get over to the clinic this afternoon.

Distance to work is roughly 1 mile, not quite enough for real exercise but keeps me at a steady weight for now without having to be super strict with my diet. Last winter when I was pushing hard to loose weight I would do 2 laps before and after work and that helped quite a bit.

Thank you for that update Narfi, I can relate to your frustration. Useless information, I built a 37ft steel yacht, designed by vd Stadt about 40 years ago. The plan was to travel the Indian Ocean and visit the most interesting diving sights. Ended up visiting them, but not by yacht as 'mommy' was not cut out for life at sea.
Good luck with your build, my GV15 is what I use on our estuaries around here. At 80 I'm beginning to realize that Father Time is catching up. Take care and stay safe.

DAVE LUDICK wrote: ↑ Take care and stay safe.

You too!

VT_Jeff wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:23 am

narfi wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:12 am ...out house renovations are nearing an end and we will be moving back in.

I knew you Alaskans were a tough lot but living in an outhouse is next-level commitment, hats off!

Did you see where a gal got bite on the butt while using the outhouse the other day? It was some where in SE Alaska.

Fuzz wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:54 pm

VT_Jeff wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:23 am

narfi wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:12 am ...out house renovations are nearing an end and we will be moving back in.

I knew you Alaskans were a tough lot but living in an outhouse is next-level commitment, hats off!

Did you see where a gal got bite on the butt while using the outhouse the other day? It was some where in SE Alaska.

I did see that and commented to my buddy who sent it "Used to be girls were just afraid of spiders lurking in outhouses, now it's GRIZZLIES!"

VT_Jeff wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:58 pm

Fuzz wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:54 pm

VT_Jeff wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:23 am

I knew you Alaskans were a tough lot but living in an outhouse is next-level commitment, hats off!

Did you see where a gal got bite on the butt while using the outhouse the other day? It was some where in SE Alaska.

I did see that and commented to my buddy who sent it "Used to be girls were just afraid of spiders lurking in outhouses, now it's GRIZZLIES!"

In this area of the country we have the brown recluse spider, also called the fiddleback, the bite packs a nasty punch and it likes to build a web under the seat of outhouses. For obvious reasons, men are much more likely to get bitten than women . . . ouch!

pee wee wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:09 am In this area of the country we have the brown recluse spider, also called the fiddleback, the bite packs a nasty punch and it likes to build a web under the seat of outhouses. For obvious reasons, men are much more likely to get bitten than women . . . ouch!

Eesh.

Eesh!

People being bitten by spiders and bears! Makes me feel like a wuss living here north of Boston. The worst we have to deal with ultra liberals who hate anyone but other ultra liberals.
Rover 1

I have always considered myself conservative, but found out recently that I have one of the most 'liberal' views in our school district.

I am president of our LSAC (local school advisory committee) and now that all the adults in our village have been vaccinated and there have been no local cases for months we would like our children to stop having to wear masks in their (very small) classes.
We were told this is too liberal a view and wont be considered.

So there you have it, politics, covid, boats, planes, bears, and butt spiders and religion all in one place o.0



Religion? you didn't see that? what you missed is that the kids are all (legally) without masks outside of school all of the time, playing, visiting each other, church (see religion!) etc.... they all live within walking distance of each other and the roads are private so they can all drive Hondas and snow machines when they are too lazy to walk.



On a brighter note, I have been building some plane parts this week, will gather some pictures together for show and tell within the next few days.

Are you getting buried with snow over on your side of the mountain?

If everyone in your town has had the vaccine someone needs to slap the moron making the mask for kids call.

Yeah we have a few feet and several fresh inches this morning. Burnes more calories walking anywhere this way......

~8 hours over the last few days.
Built the rest of the rudder parts.
Tip rib, rear ribs and forward rib.
Going slow because they don't have the scratch built plans yet. Roger has been taking pictures of parts with the tape measure beside them. I'm sure he is getting tired of me calling

Last night I attached the ribs to the spar and everything looked good except the forward rib seemed too wide for where it attaches between rear ribs 2 and 3. It fit perfectly against rib 2 but after talking to Roger today my parts are the right demensions and it for sure goes a few inches further (narrower) up the spar. I will play with it tonight and probably just need to bend the flanges down a bit tighter.(I hope)

Then I will take it apart and put the spar doublers in place and the hinge brackets.
All of this is being done with a #40 drill bit for pilot holes and fitting. Once it's all cleaned up and fitted I am hoping Landon will want to do final drilling for size.

The skin is going to be interesting as there are no pre punched holes for aligning the ribs. But I think once I actually fit it together it won't be too big a deal to get lined up. I have the angles the ribs are supposed to sit from the spar.


Total time spent building: 77 hours
Total Cost: $8803
Airplane + consumables + project specific costs: $5867
Tools, etc.. I will keep for future projects: $2936

Very cool Narfi, I have been waiting for an update!!!! Jeff

~6hrs
Bent the trailing edge skin.
Drew out the angles of all the ribs from the spar on a sheet of plywood with centerlines extending beyond the edges.
Layed out the skin on the drawing and drilled the trailing edge pilot hole for each rib.
Drew centerlines on all the ribs and inserted the skeleton into the skin.
With the spar and trailing edge blocked for jigging. Clamped the skin to the spar where I had marked it belonged and lined up the ribs till I could see the center lines through the pilot holes, drilled and clecoed.
Drilled a pilot hole in line with the rib centerlines at each intersection on the spar and then used a rivet spacer fan(not sure proper name) drilled along each rib all the pilot holes pitch 40 or less.
Flipped it, rejigged it, and did the same on the other side.
Using the river spacer drilled all the holes along the spar spaced evenly between all the ribs on both sides.
Made the lower splice plates and drilled and clecoed them in place. I bent my rear skin square with a full width 48" sheet and it ended up a little shorter than the plans, I'm guessing they bend at an angle to get a little longer or something. No big issue, my splice plates
just look a little different.
Removed the clecos where the lower forward fairing attaches and slid it between the skins and spar. Marked a line on each side so I would know how far to slide it in, then drilled through the pre existing akin holes and clecoed it in place.

Next up I need to form the leading edge and fit it. Then will drill all the holes to final size and clean it all up for priming and final assembly.
Total time spent building: 83 hours
Total Cost: $8803
Airplane + consumables + project specific costs: $5867
Tools, etc.. I will keep for future projects: $2936

Nice Narfi!!! Jeff

Really nice, precise work Narfi, you have satisfied my appetite for a few days. Thank you.

DAVE LUDICK wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:17 am Really nice, precise work Narfi, you have satisfied my appetite for a few days. Thank you.

Thanks, won't get back to it till next week. Too many irons in the fire

Got black on landons bed last night after two thick coats of white primer. Tonight I'll skuff it all up to get the white showing through in places and then 3 coats of clear coat. Then he can move into his new bedroom

Did the armoire first, so it and the bed will match. It has a slide out desk in it and will have a small tv/monitor on a swing arm that can be used inside as a computer monitor or pulled out as a tv/gaming screen.

*We made the bed, just "refinished" the armoire.

Nice Narfi!!! Jeff

Nice work Narfi. I like to see some one else doing some good work finishing there projects.

Tom

Well we moved back up to the top floor this weekend.
Landons room is done and everything else nearly done, still waiting on the black iron for the rails on the stairs and a few touch up spots here and there but close enough to move back in. Hope to get back to working on the airplane in a few days, still need to do alot of sorting and putting stuff away.

I am pretty happy with the way the bed turned out, spent half a day putting all the hardware on, but it really makes it imo.

Very nice Narfi!!

Man you should be in mamas good graces. Very nice work.

You are indeed a man of many talents, your work, whatever it is, deserves recognition. A beautiful room for your son. He is fortunate to have a dad like you.

Well done Narfi!!! Jeff

~5hrs
Landon helped me cut a piece of aluminum for the rudder leading edge and vacume form the radius before the sounds of kids in the neighborhood distracted him.

I got it fitted in place sandwiched between the spar and rear skin to drill all the pilot holes to the spar.
Got the lower rib aligned and drilled. Dinged the leading edge a little with the squared off front of the rib sliding it back and forth, but not bad enough to need to redo it all. Lesson learned though, I should have left the skin looser right there.
I need to call Roger and find out the shape and dimensions to trim the lower section of the skin, the drawings show it curved up, but looking at some recent assembly videos online it looks straight.... Is it trimmed to fit after installing on the tail? Or is that supposed to be done now?

Next up will be shaping the rudder horn, I already have it rough cut and bent, just need to grind down the final shape and fit it to the lower rib.

This weekend I hope to get Landons help redrilling all the holes to final size and cleaning up for priming. Will see how timing goes around the house

Been snowing, and as we all know, that means it's warm enough to comfortably work out in the tent for longer periods again
Total time spent building: 88 hours
Total Cost: $8803
Airplane + consumables + project specific costs: $5867
Tools, etc.. I will keep for future projects: $2936

Narfi, that is a bunch of snow!!! Cool watching you build the parts to your plane!!! Jeff

I find this fascinating, and your work looks very precise and professional!

I bet Landon is learning a ton from you, watching and helping.

~1.5hrs
Landon started drilling out the holes to final size. I had it all drilled out with a #40 and alternating holes with silver clecos. He drilled up to a #30 and put in the copper clecos then removed the silver and drilled them out as well. He did most of one side, I'll probably finish up tonight.
While he was doing that I finished shaping the control horn and fitted it.
Total time spent building: 89.5 hours
Total Cost: $8803
Airplane + consumables + project specific costs: $5867
Tools, etc.. I will keep for future projects: $2936

pee wee wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:10 am I find this fascinating, and your work looks very precise and professional!

I bet Landon is learning a ton from you, watching and helping.

Jeff wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:52 am Narfi, that is a bunch of snow!!! Cool watching you build the parts to your plane!!! Jeff

DAVE LUDICK wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:14 am You are indeed a man of many talents, your work, whatever it is, deserves recognition. A beautiful room for your son. He is fortunate to have a dad like you.

Fuzz wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:54 pm Man you should be in mamas good graces. Very nice work.

piperdown wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:35 pm Very nice Narfi!!

TomW1 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:10 pm Nice work Narfi. I like to see some one else doing some good work finishing there projects.

Tom

thanks for all the comments guys, it means a lot!

I was doing a little bit of introspection lately, don't think I came up with anything profound though....
I do think I am a different person now than I was when I joined this site and started undertaking projects, the canoe, the FS17, now the plane, as well as all the other little side projects that I would have never even considered in the past and now contemplating a huge boat project in the future. In my younger years I was a reading addict, every spare minute was spent reading novels. Not a bad hobby really, but certainly not productive. Then I spent a 5-8year period just as dedicated to online gaming, which again is not a bad hobby, and in remote areas is a great way to be 'social', but still not productive. Building these boats has changed my daily and family life, and I think has allowed me to raise my son better.

A large part of what allowed me to make those changes was the encouragement from all of you guys here. I knew nothing starting out, had never worked with wood before, very minimal experience with fiberglass at work, etc... but you guys gave me the confidence needed to get started and to keep going one day at a time producing things I can be proud of. I probably don't say 'thank you' enough, but it is something I always appreciate. I should probably work more at encouraging others here as well.

Anyways my bit of introspection for the week/month/year?
Thanks!

Nice Narfi!!!! Jeff

My kid won't spend 5 minutes. If my wife didn't depend on it, we'd have the internet off for a week.

I have no idea what clecos are, but can google it.

fallguy1000 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:18 pm I have no idea what clecos are, but can google it.

They are the temporary spring clamps in all the holes, we use them for alignment and holding the parts together before and during assembly.

It's what makes it look like hellraiser from the 80s.

narfi wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:23 pm

fallguy1000 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:18 pm I have no idea what clecos are, but can google it.

They are the temporary spring clamps in all the holes, we use them for alignment and holding the parts together before and during assembly.

It's what makes it look like hellraiser from the 80s.

Used a lot in autobody for welding. Keeps the panels aligned. Holes left are perfect for spot welds.

piperdown wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:23 pm Holes left are perfect for spot welds.

Or in our case, rivets.

~8hrs
Did the final trim along spar rivet line of the leading edge skin.

Drilled out the hinge holes on the brackets. Debuted all edges and holes.

Hauled everything over to the hanger I work at and prepped for priming and primed.

Put the extra mixed primer in the freezer to keep it from kicking.

Went back the next day and wrapped everything in towels and brought home.

We riveted the skeleton together and then the skins and control horn. We brushed primer on both sides of every joint and seam before assembly and riveted together "wet."

A few weeks ago I had Landon working on a practice sheetmetal project with solid driven rivets. His comment yesterday was "this is a LOT easier." ...... I agree with him, pulled rivets feels like a cheat code for assembly. No stress and much quicker.

Once done brought the finished rudder inside over night for the primer in the seams to cure. Was fun waking up this morning to a nicely finished part to greet me.
Total time spent building: 97.5 hours
Total Cost: $8803
Airplane + consumables + project specific costs: $5867
Tools, etc.. I will keep for future projects: $2936

Clecos. Got it! The stuff you learn here!

Just too cool Narfi!!!! Jeff

~4.5hrs
Cut the strips, debuted the edges and bent the spars and doublers for the horizontal and elevator last night.
It's an old brake at a neighbors I am using and it used the full 10ft of it, bending sharper at one end and bowing a little in the middle creaking and groaning the whole time on the .040. I got the angles closeish and will finish them with the hand seamer like I did with the rudder spar. It's close and the bends are straight and where I want them so shouldn't be to hard to finish them off.

Once I have them bent to my satisfaction I will tweak the rib dimensions Roger gave me to match perfectly to the spars and build the new formers and cutting blocks for them.
Total time spent building: 102 hours
Total Cost: $8803
Airplane + consumables + project specific costs: $5867
Tools, etc.. I will keep for future projects: $2936

I am so enjoying watching this.

Me too Cape Man!! Very much so!!! Jeff

~9hrs

Spent an hour Friday working the angles on the spars and doublers.
About 8 hours Sunday afternoon building forming and cutting blocks for the horizontal ribs, cutting them out and forming them.
The first time around when I thought I was building the 750stol ribs I built 3 form blocks, one for the leading edge, one for the middle and one for the full ribs, this time I just made the one full sized former and used my hand seamer to bend the hidden flange on the nose and middle ribs. I still made 3 sets of cutting templates to run the router around for cutting the aluminum.
Of course after forming the ribs I had to dummy them up to the spars to get a peak at how they will look
Roger is gone to Sun n Fun, so I won't be able to get dimensions on the center hinge assembly parts or rib spacing or attach brackets until he is back next week. Spacing seems most critical on the center two ribs as the forward attach brackets match up with them and from what I can tell need to be spaced appropriately to match the fuselage width and fuselage side of the attach brackets for bolting on. (and I obviously haven't built the fuselage yet....)

I have seen some people build increase the size of the outer hinge bracket to form a strake on the outer ribs of the horizontal. Any thoughts on if I should do that here? I am strongly leaning towards yes. I like the looks of it. It probably does help some. I intend to build floats for it at some time, and although I have not read anything yet about float characteristics for it, nearly all certified aircraft I have put floats on require more stability back at the tail. For example Cessna has a larger rudder and a dorsal fin bolted on under the tail and beavers have a plate bolted on the outer edge of the horizontal stabilizers looking almost exactly like larger versions of what I have seen done on zeniths. What do you guys think?

Also ordered the elevator trim system from Aircraft Spruce, It includes the Servo, clevis/pushrod kit, as well as switches and indicators. $372

Total time spent building: 111 hours
Total Cost: $9175
Airplane + consumables + project specific costs: $6239
Tools, etc.. I will keep for future projects: $2936

Roger is gone to Sun n Fun...

Tell him to fly 10.33 miles from the western end of the runway on a heading of 226.5 and wave (rock the wings) as he goes over the house. We are the house on the river with a swimming pool.

cape man wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:51 pm

Roger is gone to Sun n Fun...

Tell him to fly 10.33 miles from the western end of the runway on a heading of 226.5 and wave (rock the wings) as he goes over the house. We are the house on the river with a swimming pool.

You usually go? I think it would be fun to attend things like that, but just not practical for our location and budget at this stage of our life... Though our next cruises are scheduled same time as the Miami boat show next year if they arent canceled (again).

I forgot the picture I took of the ribs I cut out before forming them,

Is there any types of non-destructive testing that can be done on the custom made aircraft?

I am a curious person is all. Something like a wing connection seems like it might really be important and even potentially fatigue.

My boat has a few places that are pretty critical in heavy head seas, for example..

The most common for one-off designs would be testing to destruction.
For "mass produced" plans the designer does the math using materials with known properties as well as testing to destruction.
In both one-off as well as more professional designs, repeating known successes is also very common.

None of that really helps you though.....
If you are talking about testing metal after x numbers of cycles or hours or years, yes there are different types of ndt that can be done.
There is probably an x-ray company in your nearest city capable of x-ray and magnetic partial inspections.
You could probably do some florescent dye penetration inspection yourself to find larger cracks (the size you could probably find with a 10x magnification if looking hard enough) but made much easier with the penetrant and black light

No. I was asking about your aircraft.

Any ndt requirements?

No, the plans are from one of the most popular 'families' of plans as far as homebuilt aluminum aircraft go. The designer is quite reputable and has 100s or 1000s of similar aircraft built designed by him.



http://www.zenithair.com/gif1/ch-design-history-big.gif

The plane I am building is called the 750 Super Duty. It is the evolution/hybrid of the 801 and the 750STOL. It is basically a 750 stol fuselage with extended wings and an 801 tail and bigger engine. Both of those planes have been quite successful and they have been selling the super duty as a cnc match drilled kit for several years and all the ones finished so far are flying successfully.



The designer created the plans with the amature builder in mind so has a safety factor margin of error for construction built in. (Much like jacques does for our boats here)

The certified planes I work on for my day job do occasionally have ndt inspection requirements as the general aviation fleet gets older. Aluminum planes built in the 60s and 70s still flying years after their life expectancy.. some with over 20,000 hours so the metal has seen a lot in it's 50+ years in harsh enviroments.

We are rebuilding one now from the 30s which still has most of it's original steel.(no ndt inspections required on it)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stinson_Reliant

THANKS!

fair winds

Their headquarters is about 2 1/2 hours from where I live and work.

Good morning Narfi, this is just a very gentle nudge for an update on your progress.
Dave

DAVE LUDICK wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:30 am Good morning Narfi, this is just a very gentle nudge for an update on your progress.
Dave

Hey Dave!
I am ancy to get back to it as well, but got distracted with another project now that the weather is nice enough for epoxy.....
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=65490

My son 'told' me that we should finish it before July 4th so he can show it off...... We will see, but it might be possible. Once it's done I'll be back working on the plane again.

You doing any interesting projects? It's always interesting seeing what other people are doing.
Hope you have a good one.
Narfi

Hi Narfi, I built a GV15 for fishing the Zambezi in Zambia. I was born there, did my National Service in the army way back in '59, worked on the railways and the mines. I live in South Africa now, but waiting for an opportunity to go North to fish, but Covid is making things difficult with border crossings. I enjoy fishing and hunting, and Zambia is a paradise for those activities.
I would have liked to build the GV15 in aluminium, but I am getting too old for that sort of project now. I think my next project will be building my own casket in stitch and glue.
I love your project and follow it with interest.
Take care.

Your 'sailboat' looks like a fun project, I am sure you and your son will get a lot of pleasure out of using it when completed.
In my my younger days, 50 years ago I built a 37ft steel yacht to dive the Indian Ocean, what a project.

DAVE LUDICK wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:04 am Hi Narfi, I built a GV15 for fishing the Zambezi in Zambia. I was born there, did my National Service in the army way back in '59, worked on the railways and the mines. I live in South Africa now, but waiting for an opportunity to go North to fish, but Covid is making things difficult with border crossings. I enjoy fishing and hunting, and Zambia is a paradise for those activities.
I would have liked to build the GV15 in aluminium, but I am getting too old for that sort of project now. I think my next project will be building my own casket in stitch and glue.
I love your project and follow it with interest.
Take care.

DAVE LUDICK wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:10 am Your 'sailboat' looks like a fun project, I am sure you and your son will get a lot of pleasure out of using it when completed.
In my my younger days, 50 years ago I built a 37ft steel yacht to dive the Indian Ocean, what a project.

Sounds like an interesting life I would love to see a few pictures of your GV15 as well as your 37ft yacht.
The aluminum gv15 sounds fun as well, I have never learned to weld.... So hard to find time for all the things that could be fun hobbies, I have tried to narrow them down somewhat and hopefully become better at them.
I have mixed feelings on your coffin idea..... it is kind of morbid, but for the right person with the right personality, it could turn out pretty cool as a representation of who you are.

My wife and I have been dreaming of building a larger yacht to retire on, so when the plane is done and finances allow, we may be starting a larger project..... have another year or two till then though

Narfi, I am the joker in our golfing 4 ball, nothing morbid about me, I have a very practical outlook on life, you have to, living in Africa.
I would love to be able to do everything still left on my wish list, but I realize some things will remain on the wish list.
Often wonder how you deal with the extreme weather in winter. I watch 'Life below Zero' and marvel at the endurance and patience of those of you living up there.
I GET grumpy when the temperature drops below 20C. When my buddies can smell from 10 metres away, I know I am operating at the right temperature.
Envious of all the wood you have available to you in some places in Alaska. I can think of so many things I could do with it here.
Your and your son are lucky to be able to do the things you do without the distractions that the youth in the cities have.
Take care and be safe.

Sailed, modified, broke, and repaired the sailboat a while. Evenings are getting cooler so Wednesday night I sanded all the epoxy drips off the work table and dug out some zenith parts.


Last night laid out some steel tube for straight support jigs. (Table is on dirt and uneven after a few freeze thaw melt mud cycles) good practice to have some straight steel tubes or beams to clamp to anyways.

Clamp the horizontal stabilizer spars and ribs in place and started going through all my old emails with Roger for dimensions. Drilled pilot holes for the center three ribs and clecoed in place. Need to find or make the angle tab for the outer ones and get them clecoed in place.

Thinking about the skin. .020 with a 1 1/4" radius leading edge. The pipe I had used for vacume forming the rudder isn't long enough for this 10ft long skin. Will need to find a longer pipe which may start getting too flexible or figure out a different method.

Glad to see you back on the airplane!!! Jeff

Glad to see you back on the airplane!!! Jeff

DAVE LUDICK wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:40 am
I GET grumpy when the temperature drops below 20C. When my buddies can smell from 10 metres away, I know I am operating at the right temperature.

Not sure how I missed your message, sorry.

I have always preferred the cold, getting miserable when temperatures got above 80f (27C) but I was also carrying around some extra weight that kept me warm..... two winters ago I put a lot of work into getting into a healthier shape and have enjoyed a more energetic lifestyle since. The downside being without the insulation, the calories feeding my furnace, and perhaps and perhaps a consequence of crossing the 40yr mark almost 2yrs ago I get cold much easier now.

I am enjoying my new life, but there is still something to say for being 'fat, dumb and happy' as well

I am enjoying my new life, but there is still something to say for being 'fat, dumb and happy' as well

Same. One of the reasons we moved south was my inability to tolerate the cold after losing a lot of weight. I made about 3 years before the Mrs realized my lack of blubber (which she liked not seeing) meant we need to live someplace warmer.

My trip to visit Fuzz, in august when he said it was warm, confirmed I’m not cut out for the cold.