NidaPlast Panel for Sole

Please see our tutorials and FAQ before posting.
cape_fisherman
Active Poster
Active Poster
Posts: 321
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:04 pm
Location: Harkers Island, NC

Re: NidaPlast Panel for Sole

Post by cape_fisherman »

bklake wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:26 pm 12mm meranti is $105 per sheet plus epoxy and fiberglass. 25mm Nidaplast is $323. These prices are from our sponsor here. I guess when you add up the cost of ply+fiberglass+epoxy+time, the total cost isn't that far apart.

The Nidaplast Panels are pre made with biax on each side over the honeycomb core. No vacuum bagging of infusion needed.
38mm (1.5") NidaCore (4x7 sheet) & Carbon Core (4x8 sheet) are about half of what you quoted the 25mm Nidaplast. I just did a quick Google search & they are $155 & $125 respectively. Two layers of 1700 on either side will give you a perfectly acceptable sole.

cape_fisherman
Active Poster
Active Poster
Posts: 321
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:04 pm
Location: Harkers Island, NC

Re: NidaPlast Panel for Sole

Post by cape_fisherman »

Jaysen wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:27 pm The only reason for not using ply is fear of core rot. Other than that wood is still the best option for the cost to weight to longevity ratios.
I would say that on a cost/weight ratio, honeycomb beats ply all to pieces...seeing as they will be very similar in cost.

bklake
Active Poster
Active Poster
Posts: 267
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:33 am
Location: Virginia
Location: Virginia

Re: NidaPlast Panel for Sole

Post by bklake »

Great discussion. Nidaplast panels, sold here, are pre made. 17oz biax+mat on both sides.

I'm sure I could make panels but I don't want to start another learning adventure and I don't have room to set up for laminating 4x8 sheets. I'm betting that Nida has the facilities and equipment to make panels far better than I could. I need 4 sheets and past history tells me that I won't get it right until panel 5 so I would have to re-do everything doubling the cost of raw materials. One day, I will learn this skill but not for this build.

My goal is to reduce weight. The listed weight of the panel is a lot lot less than the weight of a sheet of ply. The sole of the HB16 is 12mm ply with no fiberglass, just sealed. The main problem to solve is: What thickness of honeycomb will equal the strength/stiffness of ply? We have several answers that are close. 3/4 to 1 1/2 inch. Oops, trying to switch to metric thinking so 19-37mm. The cost of the Nidaplast Panel is 3x the cost of a sheet of meranti. I would add a layer of fiberglass because sand, mud, dogs, and stuff would eat through neat epoxy pretty quickly. Makes it 2x the cost of just plywood. 4 sheets of this actually won't add that much to the cost of the build.

cape_fisherman
Active Poster
Active Poster
Posts: 321
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:04 pm
Location: Harkers Island, NC

Re: NidaPlast Panel for Sole

Post by cape_fisherman »

That's a fine decision...but I have to wonder...

You said that you don't want the "adventure" of glassing the panels, but then go on to say that you'd add another layer of glass to the panels. I'm curious why you would pay that much more money just to spend even more on it? "To me" it makes more sense to spend half the money on the panel & simply glass it. But that's me. Oh...and you don't have to glass the entire 4x8 panel. Cut your pattern first, and then glass. That way you aren't glassing the wasted pieces.

Not to worry...I'm just thinking out loud.

The honeycomb is certainly the way to go. A friend of mine has used 3", glassed with two layers of 1700 each side, over a 16' unsupported span in the salon of a sportfisher. Worked fine, and helped suppress the sound of the engine room below.

TomW1
Very Active Poster
Very Active Poster
Posts: 5844
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:57 pm
Location: Bryson City, NC

Re: NidaPlast Panel for Sole

Post by TomW1 »

Fuzz wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:19 pm Tom with just neat epoxy it would be very flimsy. It is just light weight plastic honeycomb with no structural strength. 24oz of epoxied biax "might" make things stiff enough but I feel like 34oz will get the job done with no worries. By the way even with two layers of 1708 on one side it is still pretty flexible. Flexible enough to put a fair amount of crown in a deck. Lay it down and then glass the top side and you have one nice deck.
Fuzz I totally disagree a 38mm panel is 1.5 inches thick, it has over 55296 1 inch cells in it. Each linked by a wall. That board will flex less than a 3/4 inch piece of plywood. It is not made of plastic it is made of an engineered component and is super strong. If the boat is built with the frames in place there is no problem. I have seen Nidacore span 8' without support, without heavy fiberglassing. You just have to engineer the thickness to the design.

In this case the HB has stringers, etc that will support it there is no need for double 17oz fiberglass top and bottom. The NidaPlast is also chemical, water and rot resistant so no need for a layer of fiberglass on the bottom. Just coat it with epoxy for some extra protection.

If you want to use NidaPlast and put two layers of 1708 on both sides you might as well buy 1/2" Meranti and put one layer of 1700 on both sides. 50 lbs for the ply plus 18 for the fiberglass and epoxy. Vs 25 plus 40 for the 1708. The plans only require 12oz on both sides.
Last edited by TomW1 on Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Restored Mirror Dinghy, Bought OD18 built by CL, Westlawn School of Yacht Design courses. LT US Navy 1970-1978

fallguy1000
* Bateau Builder - Expert *
* Bateau Builder - Expert *
Posts: 10198
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:25 am

Re: NidaPlast Panel for Sole

Post by fallguy1000 »

The forum is dropping my logins and my drafts... arghp
My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

fallguy1000
* Bateau Builder - Expert *
* Bateau Builder - Expert *
Posts: 10198
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:25 am

Re: NidaPlast Panel for Sole

Post by fallguy1000 »

TomW1 wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:46 pm
Fuzz wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:19 pm Tom with just neat epoxy it would be very flimsy. It is just light weight plastic honeycomb with no structural strength. 24oz of epoxied biax "might" make things stiff enough but I feel like 34oz will get the job done with no worries. By the way even with two layers of 1708 on one side it is still pretty flexible. Flexible enough to put a fair amount of crown in a deck. Lay it down and then glass the top side and you have one nice deck.
Fuzz I totally disagree a 38mm panel is 1.5 inches thick, it has over 55296 1 inch cells in it. Each linked by a wall. That board will flex less than a 3/4 inch piece of plywood. It is not made of plastic it is made of an engineered component and is super strong. If the boat is built with the frames in place there is no problem. I have seen Nidacore span 8' without support, without heavy fiberglassing. You just have to engineer the thickness to the design.

In this case the HB has stringers, etc that will support it there is no need for double 17oz fiberglass top and bottom. The NidaPlast is also chemical, water and rot resistant so no need for a layer of fiberglass on the bottom. Just coat it with epoxy for some extra protection.

If you want to use NidaPlast and put two layers of 1700 on both sides you might as well buy 1/2" Meranti and put one layer of 1700 on each side. It would provide the same stiffness according to you. 8O
This is incorrect.

The material is in tension on the bottom and it must be glassed or it will sag like mad.

If you compare 3/4" ply with 5 oz epoxy bottom and 12 oz glass and epoxy top; a ply panel is 80 pounds.

A one inch plascore panel with 68 ounces per yard glass and epoxy and say 8 ounces per yard wetout is say 11.5# core and say 33 pounds glass n epoxy for a total of 45 pounds or about 55% the weight of ply.

Downside is it won't hold screws, but technically, that is an upside because you can't 'screw' it up and rot it out.

It does cost more for the never rot feature. It also adds more buoyancy to the vessel by virtue of its thickness less weight.
My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

fallguy1000
* Bateau Builder - Expert *
* Bateau Builder - Expert *
Posts: 10198
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:25 am

Re: NidaPlast Panel for Sole

Post by fallguy1000 »

Not to be a nit, but the plascore with only veil and epoxy will severely crack underfoot. It is not made to support say a 100 pound foot load. The resin is far too brittle in the veil. It would be like putting epoxy on cardboard and walking on it.

My one inch thick plascore panels span 53" with about 42 ounces glass each side. They still sag some. I am trying to decide if to add a small beam under them. Mostly worried about group hugs.

For a well supported sole, you could skip one layer of glass on top and save say 25% of the glass n epoxy weight.

And not to be a super nit (I am one), but if you let epoxy and two layers of 1708 cure both sides; that panel will only bend for a day or two; once a week goes by; it will take the shape of how its been setting.
My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

Fuzz
* Bateau Builder - Expert *
* Bateau Builder - Expert *
Posts: 8920
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:23 am
Location: Kasilof, Alaska

Re: NidaPlast Panel for Sole

Post by Fuzz »

Tow I think we are talking about two different things. I am speaking about NidaPlast or NidaCore. The unfinished panels with no glass on them. With no glass on them they are very flexible. If you only have glass on ONE side they are still flexible. Flexible enough that it is easy to put 1/2 inch crown per foot in them. When you glass the second side it locks the shape in and produces the I-beam effect. The cost/weight delta is small between 1/2 inch and 1.5 inch material. The stiffness delta of a finished panel between .5 inch and 1.5 inch is huge. You also get the added bonus of good sound and heat insulation.
By the way foam works the same way. You can glass one side, bend it and then lock in the shape with glass on the other side.

TomW1
Very Active Poster
Very Active Poster
Posts: 5844
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:57 pm
Location: Bryson City, NC

Re: NidaPlast Panel for Sole

Post by TomW1 »

Fuzz wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:31 am Tow I think we are talking about two different things. I am speaking about NidaPlast or NidaCore. The unfinished panels with no glass on them. With no glass on them they are very flexible. If you only have glass on ONE side they are still flexible. Flexible enough that it is easy to put 1/2 inch crown per foot in them. When you glass the second side it locks the shape in and produces the I-beam effect. The cost/weight delta is small between 1/2 inch and 1.5 inch material. The stiffness delta of a finished panel between .5 inch and 1.5 inch is huge. You also get the added bonus of good sound and heat insulation.
By the way foam works the same way. You can glass one side, bend it and then lock in the shape with glass on the other side.
Okay Fuzz I am going to drop this subject because my experience with Nidacore etc. is obviously different.
Tom
Restored Mirror Dinghy, Bought OD18 built by CL, Westlawn School of Yacht Design courses. LT US Navy 1970-1978

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests