Steve's PH22

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ProfzrX
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Steve's PH22

Post by ProfzrX »

First off I'd like to compliment Jeff and Reid on their professionalism and accommodation of storing my materials until I was able to pick them up (months) after ordering them. I work in the medical field and to say the least, it's been insane over this past year and a half.
Never once did I ever receive a phone call, text message, or email questioning when would be there to get it. Even after me canceling a pickup date on more than one occasion. GREAT GUYS!!

On to my build lol. My father and I were finally able to have a free day to get down to Fort Pierce to pick my hull core material. I've had these plans for over two years now and to be honest, have gone back and forth with myself numerous times on whether to build what I want or to just buy a bay boat. Obviously, I've decided to build one. I will be using all composite material for this build, divinycell for the hull core, bulkheads and stringer, Glass Reinforced Polyurethane Foam for the transom and hatch covers, and lastly honeycomb for the deck. I have yet to find a Phantom build that is all-composite, If one is out there and has a build thread I'd love to see/learn from it. My plan is to updated this thread as much as I possibly can throughout this build. I'd like to also start a youtube build thread for this build as there is limited information regarding foam core boat building out there (Could be a sign right lol). If anyone on here has any recommendations for a video recorder I'm all ears. So to start off with I have two questions I'd greatly appreciate input on.

1. Glass layup- I have the glass layup that came with the plans which call for marine ply. I obviously cannot use the same layup for foam. I spoke with a local boat builder who builds foam core hulls, he recommended that I use (3) layers 1708 biaxial exterior and (2) layers interior prior to setting stringers. He advised this layup due to the size HP 250-300 that I'll be using to power the boat. Again any input would be appreciated.

2. Reverse chines- I will be adding reverse chines to the hull. I will be building this hull from a jig and am considering building them into the jig as opposed to adding them once the hull is built and glassed. My concern with "adding" them is the chance they could separate from the hull at some point.

Again thanks for any input. I'm excited to finally start this build with my father and learn from all the experienced builders on here.
Attachments
PH22 materials.jpg
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piperdown
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Re: Steve's PH22

Post by piperdown »

Looking forward to seeing the build come together!
Eric (aka, piperdown)

"Give an Irishman lager for a month and he's a dead man. An Irishman's stomach is lined with copper, and the beer corrodes it. But whiskey polishes the copper and is the saving of him." --> Mark Twain

TomW1
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Re: Steve's PH22

Post by TomW1 »

Since you bought everything from BBC Jacques will give you the proper lay up of the fiberglass, please give the office a call so they can get Jacques working on it for you. Since he is the designer you get the correct lay up. He may have already done it for some one else.

Tom
Restored Mirror Dinghy, Bought OD18 built by CL, Westlawn School of Yacht Design courses. LT US Navy 1970-1978

jacquesmm
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Re: Steve's PH22

Post by jacquesmm »

From the designer:
I was out of two for a couple days and could not reply earlier.
Please, do not get the lamination schedule from a friend or neighbor, get them from me, the designer.
There are several Phantoms built in foam sandwich and some hybrid. The very first one was around 1994, a PH18 that used Airex.
I calculated the specs for the PH22 years ago, was that not for you?
If not, I will check my files and we can discuss that next week. We just unloaded our suitcases, I'll check all that over the week-end.
We will also discuss the reverse chines.
Jacques Mertens - Designer
http://boatbuildercentral.com

fallguy1000
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Re: Steve's PH22

Post by fallguy1000 »

I am not a naval architect, but your layup is not great.

Let me explain.

You have 5 layers of csm in the schedule. Those layers each add about 6-8 ounces of glass and resin that offers very little to the hull strength and offer only stiffness.

The weight per yard of the layup at 7 oz average mat and 17 is 24•5 or 120 ounces resin and 120 ounces glass. Or 240 ounces per yard with 70 ounces contribution almost no strength. 70/240 is about 29% no strength!!! Do NOT.

Also, the tow direction of all these layers is the same. Another error, imo. A layer or two of uni would make a lot of sense.

Anyhow, please understand, I am only wise by my reading and own personal work..I would recommend a far different layup. The csm has a place if you are gelcoating. That should also be noted in a lam sched.

Anyhow, 6 layers of db1700 is 204 ounces and probably stronger, so please pay attention to JM. He may spec some xx08 glass for thickness, but really I am not a fan of 5 layers of it..
My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

fallguy1000
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Re: Steve's PH22

Post by fallguy1000 »

On the issue of 'reverse' chines. I would think you'd need to pay a designer for that customization and it could go wrong some not tank modeled.

While largely out of my league, I can offer my thoughts.

They can certainly be built in, but glass only lays on curves. Your boat will be built upside down. A reverse chine would be cut into the jigs and foam laid therein. Then you'd glass the thing, probably rev chine on its own. Then you'd glass the hull overlapping the reverse. And you'd have on heluva fairing mess. And that is how a male plug for a mould is built! Then, after glassing, do some research and see if they have to have sharp edges. I believe they do or they will create drag. And so, more hand redesigning of the edges with fairing compounds. This is also required of all transoms on powerboats, btw.

Anyhow, I'd estimate about an extra three days work modifying, glassing and fairing for each reverse chine. Probably a bit light cuz each two days of fairing is usually one fill/sand cycle and you need say 3 or about 6 days...

All the best. Good luck. fg
My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

OneWayTraffic
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Re: Steve's PH22

Post by OneWayTraffic »

I put chine flats on my boat by filling behind a plywood dam, then fairing. I then glued some UHMWPE to the chines by flame treating and WEST Gflex. It was a fair bit of extra work, but I can't see any other way to get a sharp chine.

Probably your boat builder friend uses polyester or vinylester. The mat in the 1708 helps with bonding between layers. I would assume that the foam core version uses epoxy, in which case the bonding properties of mat are of no real concern. It may be advisable as a cheaper way to build thickness, wait for the designer to give the specs.

ProfzrX
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Re: Steve's PH22

Post by ProfzrX »

jacquesmm wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 6:41 pm From the designer:
I was out of two for a couple days and could not reply earlier.
Please, do not get the lamination schedule from a friend or neighbor, get them from me, the designer.
There are several Phantoms built in foam sandwich and some hybrid. The very first one was around 1994, a PH18 that used Airex.
I calculated the specs for the PH22 years ago, was that not for you?
If not, I will check my files and we can discuss that next week. We just unloaded our suitcases, I'll check all that over the week-end.
We will also discuss the reverse chines.

This was not for me. Please take your time as I will not be ready for glassing for a couple of months. Also is there a build thread on the PH18 foam core build you mentioned?

Fallguy* Thank you for your advice. I will definitely build to what Jac advises. I was only mentioning the local guys' recommendations for feedback.

Onewaytraffic* I believe you're correct with the polyester or vinylester as he uses a gelcoat finish.

jacquesmm
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Re: Steve's PH22

Post by jacquesmm »

Lots to read since this week-end but I'll work on it. I was busy on another project.
I general, I agree with Fallguy's and Onewaytraffic remarks. Your boatbuilder friend was probably thinking polyester.
More later.
Jacques Mertens - Designer
http://boatbuildercentral.com

jonnymac
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Re: Steve's PH22

Post by jonnymac »

Seems like a fun project. Youtube videos would be great as these days too much stuff gets lost to the facebook/instagram knowledge blackhole. don’t have to be the best edits, anything is great.

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