Sea Ray 245 Cuddy Fish (1983)

Questions about boat repairs with our resins and fiberglass: hull patches, transoms and stringers, foam, rot etc.
Fuzz
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Re: Sea Ray 245 Cuddy Fish (1983)

Post by Fuzz »

Is the transom dead straight side to side? If not when you try to pull the plywood up tight to the glass skin you will most likely pull the skin out of shape. 3/4 ply will be stiffer than 1/4 inch of glass. If it is not straight think about laying in a couple sheets of 1/4 plywood first. One layer at a time and let it go off.
If you fill the hole first make sure to grind a taper and do not let the inside glass end up higher than the skin.

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OrangeQuest
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Re: Sea Ray 245 Cuddy Fish (1983)

Post by OrangeQuest »

Barry_CF wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 12:39 am
Tom, I was thinking it would get filled after the new plywood was in place, but I had not really thought about it that much. I don't understand what you mean. Should I place something on the inside (after prep) before the plywood goes in to patch the hole against (something that the epoxy will not stick to), then start the plywood process?

Since the outside glass is about a quarter inch thick, I thought I would cut patches to fit the hole and laminate those in place and then cover the outside with another layer or two, then fair it all in. But I was thinking you did that after the plywood was in place. Since the hole repair is below the bracket it will not look too bad. I guess I'll have to read up on that, it's good that you point it out, thanks.

On further thought, should I cut a 1/4 inch thick piece of ply to fit the hole and epoxy it in place after the plywood is in place, then cover with cloth and fair in?
I would think this would be correct. Cutting a filler plug and glue it is after the transom plywood is up. Not sure if Fallguy or Fuzz seen this figured I would mention it again to see what they say.
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fallguy1000
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Re: Sea Ray 245 Cuddy Fish (1983)

Post by fallguy1000 »

Well, I would not bother with the keyhole until after.

For the concerns about the first skin distorting; the way to deal with this is to use a 1/8" vee trowel on each side and end up with a thicker glue seam, but it is a lot, so each job may vary. A clean and flat and good surface, maybe 1/8 on existing skin and then 1/16" on ply. I would also neat coat the skin and ply an hour before thixo. The harder bit is making sure the mud is thick enough so the hilltops of the vees do not sag. Fumed silica gets added and mixed in the pail. After mixing it and you feel it is about as stiff as possible, you lay it all flat on a board to prevent it from kicking off. Epoxy is rated in 100 gram masses. If you mix a ball of 12 oz of epoxy and silica; it is about 4 times thicker than the rating and will kick in 30 minutes. All my thickened mixes go on cardboard and get laid flat with a 3-6" flat hand trowel.

The keyhole glass should be taper repaired after the ply is in with a 12:1 ratio or 3" minimum, barring any odd thickness. So, say it is 1/4" thick. 12*1/4" is 3". That is about 4 layers of 1708 plus gelcoat or fairing. You will be sanding the entire transom for gc or paint, so stay low enough for fairing compound. This is done in reverse of typical lamination with the smallest piece laid in first. If you are worried about entraining air on the edges; you can apply 1/16" vee of epoxy on the taper. The repair can also be done with only csm. The way this is done is by taking a piece of plastic and laying it on the spot and sharpie marking the hole bottom. Cut the plastic out and then transfer the shape to the csm. Then add an inch to each of the next pieces. Csm is best torn and not cut using this method.

Anyhow, this would be my approach to the keyhole and concerns about distortion of the skin. The skin may distort slighly under clamp pressures, but this can also be faired and gives you a good guide to stopping the pressure.
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Re: Sea Ray 245 Cuddy Fish (1983)

Post by fallguy1000 »

By the way, in all my face lamination work, 12oz is my go to amount. I like mixing in a 1/2 gallon container. More epoxy becomes harder to homogenize and the extra time spent seems not worth it to me.
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Re: Sea Ray 245 Cuddy Fish (1983)

Post by Barry_CF »

Ok, I'm getting what you've said and appreciate the guidance.
The transom is pretty straight. I think there may be a bit of bow that is due to the weakness from the rot. I checked it somewhat when I was gathering data for the bracket. I think it is supposed to be straight/flat. The upper part does have a bow to it, but I'm guessing it has no ply up there, above the step I pointed out in the picture. I'll check it again. If it's not straight enough then perhaps I'll use a 1/2 thick sheet (that is the thinnest I can get locally) for the first lamination with a bit of extra epoxy for insurance.

So, fill the hole after, which makes sense to me. I will plan on 1708 for that and fairing after. I've done some of that kind of work in the past, but with lighter stuff. I understand the progressively larger glass pieces here.

12 oz. I've never mixed that much before. But I'll give it a try, probably sneak up on it :)

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Re: Sea Ray 245 Cuddy Fish (1983)

Post by Barry_CF »

"The harder bit is making sure the mud is thick enough so the hilltops of the vees do not sag. Fumed silica gets added and mixed in the pail. After mixing it and you feel it is about as stiff as possible, you lay it all flat on a board to prevent it from kicking off."

Got it. I'm sure I'll need some experience. I do have some work to do on the motor home that will involve epoxy, foam, and ply, so I'll try some of these principles on that to learn.

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Re: Sea Ray 245 Cuddy Fish (1983)

Post by fallguy1000 »

Rough estimates on epoxy usage...

Neat coating surfaces..

Use a 4" adhesive or mohair roller 1/8-3/16" thick. Adhesive rollers are sold in 9", I bandsaw them to 3". 2 oz for the roller and losses and 2 oz per sq yd of each surface

Thixotropic mixture...I've forgotten the numbers a bit..but let's say the mixed volume of resins is 3 times as much.

A vee trowel of 1/8" covers average of 1/16". A square yard of surface is thus 36x36x0.065" or 85 cubic inches. 1.73 cubic inches of volume per liquid ounce or 5.19 cubic inches per ounce epoxy using 3x. Let's round to 5 to make is easy. 85/5 is 17 ounces epoxy for a yard of troweled material. From memory; this is close. Then a 1/16" trowel would be about 8.5 or say 9 ounces epoxy.

For the first bond, if rough, you'd need 17 oz times 1.5 with 1/8 trowel on boat and 1/16 trowel on panel. All subsequent bonds are troweled at 1/16, but each side of each board, so the rate is 1. I am close-ish from memory.

Point is, it takes a surprising amount of epoxy. Make sure to precoat and butter both sides. After the first bond; you'll be tempted to use only the 1/8" on one side; don't.. The chance for it to end up with lumps and air
Gaps is greater I've found. You know this after tap testing or other ways.

It doesn't really matter the direction of the vees, but even coverage is important; no skimping.
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Barry_CF
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Re: Sea Ray 245 Cuddy Fish (1983)

Post by Barry_CF »

FG, thanks very much. I've copied that for quick reference.

It helps a lot to have some experienced guidance, cuts the learning curve down. I've done some epoxy work with lighter glass and carbon, but I've never done anything quite like this.

Thanks again!

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