Cold climate epoxy users please HELP!

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WouldWork
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Cold climate epoxy users please HELP!

Post by WouldWork »

Question for those in colder climates that affect resin kick.

I’m in tropical northern Australia so cold temps are almost never a consideration when using epoxy. However this new brand of resin I have (unbeknownst to me before it arrived) says it needs 15 degrees (Celsius) temp to cure. Now I’m getting quite a few hours each day above 15 degrees but this resin after 2.5 days is not fully cured. It’s not runny - I have had bad batches before where I mixed wrong and that stays almost wet without changing but this IS hardening, it is dry to the touch but it’s taking days to get to where it usually would be in hours.

Now I know the first thing to check is my batch & mix - I’ve made 2 mixes, both 2.5 days ago, so the chance of me making an error and pouring incorrect portions twice consecutively is quite low. As for mix, I stir for several minutes as always. This is my third Bateau boat so I’m not a novice mixing and using epoxy. (Both my 2 previous boats still float so I kinda know what I’m doing.)

Could the temperature be slowing things down this much? And if so, is it just a matter of time before it kicks or is it a lost cause after this long and still waiting? It’s set hard enough that I was comfortable to remove all the cable ties from the hull, but I can still dint or scrape the thickened resin off with a fingernail. Again, it feels dry but it’s just a bit soft and flakey.

Judging by my previous experience it feels right now like it normally would 4-6 hours after mixing and applying, and as stated I’m 2 and a half days in.

Problem is I’ve tacked the entire boat (check my D5 build thread in ‘small boats’), if it doesn’t kick I don’t think I can recover it from here without starting from scratch with new ply.

Appreciate any advice.

Thanks

Cam.
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OrangeQuest
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Re: Cold climate epoxy users please HELP!

Post by OrangeQuest »

What is the ratio of resin to hardener on this new epoxy?

Double check that you are using the correct ratio.
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WouldWork
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Re: Cold climate epoxy users please HELP!

Post by WouldWork »

Thanks for the reply. Resin is 2:1 (it’s the only one I could get.) I’ve previously always used 3:1 or 5:1 but availability is a real problem at the moment so I read some reviews that were all positive, some in marine/boat building applications, and went with this stuff.

Double checked when mixing, so I don’t think ratio is my problem. Error in pouring I highly doubt however I’m happy to accept it’s possible for one batch, but not 2.

Cam.
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V12 Sailing Dinghy
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Jaysen
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Re: Cold climate epoxy users please HELP!

Post by Jaysen »

Believe it or not, it is not always as hot as satan’s armpits here in coastal South Carolina.

When I had the same problem, the answer was a “radiator style” space heater and a tarp.

The space heater is electric but uses an oil filled radiator to maintain consistent heat. The tarp goes over the hull/radiator to help keep the heat contained. Using this method I was able to get everything sandable in 48hr or less. Generally much much less.
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fallguy1000
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Re: Cold climate epoxy users please HELP!

Post by fallguy1000 »

WouldWork wrote: Sat Aug 27, 2022 12:35 am Question for those in colder climates that affect resin kick.

I’m in tropical northern Australia so cold temps are almost never a consideration when using epoxy. However this new brand of resin I have (unbeknownst to me before it arrived) says it needs 15 degrees (Celsius) temp to cure. Now I’m getting quite a few hours each day above 15 degrees but this resin after 2.5 days is not fully cured. It’s not runny - I have had bad batches before where I mixed wrong and that stays almost wet without changing but this IS hardening, it is dry to the touch but it’s taking days to get to where it usually would be in hours.

Now I know the first thing to check is my batch & mix - I’ve made 2 mixes, both 2.5 days ago, so the chance of me making an error and pouring incorrect portions twice consecutively is quite low. As for mix, I stir for several minutes as always. This is my third Bateau boat so I’m not a novice mixing and using epoxy. (Both my 2 previous boats still float so I kinda know what I’m doing.)

Could the temperature be slowing things down this much? And if so, is it just a matter of time before it kicks or is it a lost cause after this long and still waiting? It’s set hard enough that I was comfortable to remove all the cable ties from the hull, but I can still dint or scrape the thickened resin off with a fingernail. Again, it feels dry but it’s just a bit soft and flakey.

Judging by my previous experience it feels right now like it normally would 4-6 hours after mixing and applying, and as stated I’m 2 and a half days in.

Problem is I’ve tacked the entire boat (check my D5 build thread in ‘small boats’), if it doesn’t kick I don’t think I can recover it from here without starting from scratch with new ply.

Appreciate any advice.

Thanks

Cam.
Very sorry, but this is likely a mix failure or a stir failure.

I do not like to cure epoxy at temps below 15C or 60F as a general rule, though, but after a couple of days; it should have gone already, just real slow.

This sounds like a stir error. The epoxy will be soft and gummy if you forgot to stir or in my famous one yard error, move the epoxy to a paint tray and then forgot to stir.

Unmixed epoxy will dry after a week or two, but will not perform and nothing can go above it because it will be soft.

If you still believe this is a temperature issue; place an electric radiant heater under or near one area and let it sit for 8 hours. If you don't get a hardshell cure; it is a tearoff job.

A mix error that is common is reversing the hardener. So, for example a 12oz batch of 2:1 you put in 8 ounces of hardener instead of 4. What will happen? Over the course of a week, the hardener will air dry, but it is still not proper epoxy and will be gummy. I had to reverse errors over the last 300 gallons of epoxy I applied. Fortunately, my brain did this on 3 ounce batches where I went too fast and said 2 ounces and one ounce and didn't pause. After these errors, I got in a habit of resin first always.

I made a similar error and threw out a larger batch before application because I could not determine what I had done. So, 300 gallons and four errors.

Both mix and stir errors will seem like they are going to cure, but they are only drying out.

For a better understanding, take a small bit of hardener, like a pencil eraser dip and lay it on a board. Come back a day later and you'll get an idea what happens to hardener.

Stir errors are a little like chewing gum. Damndest thing because you'd think it'd cure and be soft, but instead chewing gum. Mix errors are less predictable.

Anyhow, some type of heat for 8 hours, but it sounds like an error to me.
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fallguy1000
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Re: Cold climate epoxy users please HELP!

Post by fallguy1000 »

Another amateur error Ken sheds some light on is a ratio error.

It is very easy to think 4:1 is one ounce hardener and 3 ounces resin to get to four parts. But, of course, 4:1 is 5 parts of stuff. And 2:1 epoxy is 3 parts of stuff.

So, if by chance you batched 4 ounces of hardener and 4 ounces resin to get 2 parts instead of a proper 3 parts; this would also be a mix error.
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Fuzz
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Re: Cold climate epoxy users please HELP!

Post by Fuzz »

60f is my normal working temperature. Even slow will cure at that temp but it takes a longer time. At this point you have little to lose by warming things up. If 60f is what is called out as the min temp you are not getting enough time at that temp for the cure to really get going.

WouldWork
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Re: Cold climate epoxy users please HELP!

Post by WouldWork »

The reasons I’m sure it’s not a mix or ratio error are;

1. Working with my son, building this boat with him and teaching him how to do it. Hence everything I did was said out loud, checked and double checked before pouring, and then telling him we have to stir for at least a couple of minutes.

2. We did 2 batches, using 2 different measuring cups (use a clean cup each time.) 50ml of B mixed with 100ml of A. Making sure the total was 150ml each time. Like I said - checked and double checked. I knew working with a new ratio would need specific attention.

3. I’ve weighed the remainder of the resin and there is now exactly 100ml missing from B and 200ml missing from A. I poured accurately to the ml.

4. Batch wasn’t transferred to another container after pouring, and I vividly remember mixing thoroughly. My son even asked why we stir for so long - on both batches.

I’m at a loss. It’s hard enough that it holds the hull together and will not tear apart, but still soft even this morning - although definitely considerably harder than it was yesterday.

I might try some heat and see as it’s the last ditch effort to save the boat. I can’t pull it apart without ripping apart the ply. New ply is literally my only choice if this doesn’t properly cure and honestly on this small boat I’m not sure I’d be bothered. At $150/sheet it’s an expensive endeavour, almost doubling the total cost.

Will let you all know how the heat goes over the next day or so.

Appreciate the advice.

Cam.
Completed:
CC14 Canoe
V12 Sailing Dinghy
In Progress:
D5 dinghy

WouldWork
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Re: Cold climate epoxy users please HELP!

Post by WouldWork »

***Update***

The supplier finally got back to me this morning.

They had a batch go out where they’d mislabelled bottles ‘A’ with labels ‘B.’

They use the same shape and size bottles for A & B (which is rather silly if you ask me and again another reason that prompted me to double check when using it) and they’ve put the wrong labels on some of their bottles.

I’ve asked for a refund, they’ve said they’ll send me new resin, but not reimburse the ply.

So yes this was a mix error, but not ‘my’ mix error.
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cape man
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Re: Cold climate epoxy users please HELP!

Post by cape man »

Just read your post... ouch. What company (so I can avoid them)?

Try using a blow drier or heat gun to soften and scrape it off and then clean everything with vinegar and acetone and you may save the ply.
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