Full Pilot house on a GS28X or PG25C Panga?

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barrelroll
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Full Pilot house on a GS28X or PG25C Panga?

Post by barrelroll »

It's probably easiest to start this question out with a picture.

Here's some really bad sketches of what I'm thinking

A PG25C with a pilot house added, the top one I believe is way too short and wouldn't fit 4 people
Image

Here's the same concept on a GS28X, I couldn't find a straight shot with the jump cabin so I just threw a small normal style cuddy on it
Image


How much will adding a full pilot house effect the performance of a PG25C or a GS28X? Rough math is about 300lbs for the pilot house with a 60" floor from cuddy bulkhead to rear bulkhead and a 70" interior height. Interior would be an open floor with just 2 permanent mounted helm seats on pedestals, maybe some battery boxes that double as foot rests, v-berth and no other "furniture."

Looking at the GS28 study plans it says not to add a cabin though the GS28X shows a jump cabin, large console, leaning post, and tower, I can't see that setup being much lighter than a lightly built cabin.

I really like the simplicity of the Panga 25 Would adding a flotation bracket help or hurt the weight balance? After reading about adding a bracket to a P25 moving the center of gravity too far after I'm wondering if a bracket would help offset the weight of the pilot house. I'd do a main with a kicker in the 500-600 pounds range. As nice as it would be to have a self bailing deck it's not mandatory

Would the GS28 be a better option for adding a cabin?

I live in southeast Alaska and am getting close to done with my 23' Tolman Widebody. After building my first boat I'd like to do a lot of things differently and am starting to plan the next one. The door on my shop is the biggest limiting factor as to what I build next. If I pull the trim off the garage door on my shop I can squeeze out a 8'4" wide by 7' 1" tall boat. With our weather a fully enclosed pilot house makes life much more enjoyable on the water.

Here's the want list for the next boat
-25-28' long
-Max width of 8'4" and height of 7' 1"
-Full enclosed lockable pilot house and a V-berth, 60" from cuddy bulkhead to rear bulkhead
-Range of 200+ Miles
-Cruise at 30mph in calm seas, 20ish in 2-3 footers, slow and not sketchy in 4-6 footers
-Single main with kicker

I think either of the boat will do that with a 140 or 150 on the 25 and a 200 on the 28 or am I dreaming?

OneWayTraffic
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Re: Full Pilot house on a GS28X or PG25C Panga?

Post by OneWayTraffic »

It's not just the weight, it's the location of it, and how high in the boat it is. I feel that the designer would never approve; if he thought it viable he would have designed it.

For those climates I'd recommend either the P21 or the DE23 or 25. I'm not sure about width off the top of my head though.

I'd imagine that the Pg25 would look better, but it's a narrow boat. If I were putting a top on it, I'd go for a t-top with wrap around clears, or a pilothouse console built light.

fallguy1000
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Re: Full Pilot house on a GS28X or PG25C Panga?

Post by fallguy1000 »

Well, the idea of a pilothouse on a Panga is terrible. Sorry, but the boat is really narrow and stability and trim would be affected.

The GS28 could certainly be done with a house. I never understood the 8'2" dimension on the boat. Is that for a 2" rubrail each side? Perhaps. Any house would need to be made super light with foam core 12mm and db1700 glass each side with high density inserts as needed for hardware. But...

The front section of the GS would then be inaccessible. And the house would get very hot in Florida or the Gulf of Mexico. So, scope screep is rapid and you'd be adding a pass through door or extra bilge pumps/scuppers for the forward section, air conditioning, etc.

More conversation would be needed than a one paragraph reply.
Last edited by fallguy1000 on Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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fallguy1000
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Re: Full Pilot house on a GS28X or PG25C Panga?

Post by fallguy1000 »

Build a DE style.
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barrelroll
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Re: Full Pilot house on a GS28X or PG25C Panga?

Post by barrelroll »

fallguy1000 wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:19 am
The front section of the GS would then be inaccessible. And the house would get very hot in Florida or the Gulf of Mexico. So, scope screep is rapid and you'd be adding a pass through door or extra bilge pumps/scuppers for the forward section, air conditioning, etc.

More conversation would be needed than a one paragraph reply.
The idea is to link the cuddy/ jump cabin to the pilot house so you wouldn't have an open area up front. If you need to access the bow the shelves would be wide enough to walk around. I've got a drum anchor winch going on my boat in progress and don't plan on accessing the bow often. I live in Alaska, no need for ac though depending on the direction you go most marine heaters are around 20 pounds + a couple gallons of diesel or a bbq propanetank.

The pilot house on my tolman is built pretty light with marine plywood. The lower sides are 1/4", the upper sides/ windshield frames are 1/2", rear bulkhead is 3/8", door is 1/2" with a big lexan window, and the roof is 1/4" with some support beams that double as hand rails. Everything is getting covered in 4oz besides the outside of the roof which will get 10oz glass.

There was lots of talk about a bracket moving the center of gravity too far aft on a panga. Wouldn't adding a bracket help offset the weight of the pilot house?

barrelroll
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Re: Full Pilot house on a GS28X or PG25C Panga?

Post by barrelroll »

fallguy1000 wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:22 am Build a DE style.
That might be the better option. For some reason I thought it was too wide, designed to cruise much slower, and an inboard boat. Its an outboard and 8'4" wide so i could probably squeeze it out of the shop. It's not designed to cruise faster than 30 according to the study plans topping out at 29-33mph with a 150, a 200 which is the same weight as a 150 would probably get me a high 20's cruise speed. Our current skiff cruises at 18-20mph and our favorite halibut spot is a 30 mile run, causing near 30mph would get us an extra hour on the fish each trip weather permitting.

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Re: Full Pilot house on a GS28X or PG25C Panga?

Post by fallguy1000 »

barrelroll wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 10:35 am
fallguy1000 wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:19 am
The front section of the GS would then be inaccessible. And the house would get very hot in Florida or the Gulf of Mexico. So, scope screep is rapid and you'd be adding a pass through door or extra bilge pumps/scuppers for the forward section, air conditioning, etc.

More conversation would be needed than a one paragraph reply.
The idea is to link the cuddy/ jump cabin to the pilot house so you wouldn't have an open area up front. If you need to access the bow the shelves would be wide enough to walk around. I've got a drum anchor winch going on my boat in progress and don't plan on accessing the bow often. I live in Alaska, no need for ac though depending on the direction you go most marine heaters are around 20 pounds + a couple gallons of diesel or a bbq propanetank.

The pilot house on my tolman is built pretty light with marine plywood. The lower sides are 1/4", the upper sides/ windshield frames are 1/2", rear bulkhead is 3/8", door is 1/2" with a big lexan window, and the roof is 1/4" with some support beams that double as hand rails. Everything is getting covered in 4oz besides the outside of the roof which will get 10oz glass.

There was lots of talk about a bracket moving the center of gravity too far aft on a panga. Wouldn't adding a bracket help offset the weight of the pilot house?
The Panga is a narrow boat. He has a sleeping berth design, but that is all it is. The Panga has an immersion rating of 510 pounds. Add a bracket and larger engine and pilothouse and very soon the boat is an inch below her design lines. Add a few nice halibut and some leads and rigs and another inch. It will not serve you as good as the Tolman.

As a person who enjoys fishing, I understand your wishes for the right boat. My guess is your greatest desire is safety, second dry ride. The Panga with a cabin is a mistake in every way. The center of mass of the boat will rise forward; destroying that which makes the panga so good in high seas; stability. The boat will rock horribly abeam as well. It is an epic error; believe me. Terrible for drifting for but. Erase the house and the Panga is a great trolling boat and less rocking drifting abeam.

The DE offers you 30mph with a 200hp engine; dry ride; room to stand even in the house. Set it up with autopilot and a small radar alarm and you can cook/eat breakfast underway. Catch a bucket of warm water off the engine output and warm your hands even. It is a really great boat.

All boats that go faster have a tradeoff! Fuel economy always drops once on plane. Keep that in mind if you are worried about the boat being too slow. Jumping from 150 to 200 on the DE is going to cost more money for engine and running both.
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Re: Full Pilot house on a GS28X or PG25C Panga?

Post by Cowbro »

Since you are already looking at large boats and 200hp outboards, how about the CS25? The only thing that doesn't fit your criteria is the width, but the widest part of that boat is the flare in the topsides that you could easily modify the shear and trim it up a little to stay at or under 8'4". Just leaving the rubrail off and going with a heavier inwale might get you what you need. That boat will handle the seas, the weight of the cabin, etc no problem, at the trade off of more weight, slightly more involved build and worse fuel economy.

Phil

rick berrey
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Re: Full Pilot house on a GS28X or PG25C Panga?

Post by rick berrey »

GS28X options state " a light pilothouse based on the tower tower style and dimensions is possible " . So you can build a pilot house so long as it is the shape and size of the tower , and light . I think the issue will be weight and performance , a total foam build and maybe S2-glass or carbon on the cabin and pilothouse could be an option . So as per the study plan , yes you can build a pilothouse .

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Re: Full Pilot house on a GS28X or PG25C Panga?

Post by TomW1 »

There have also been one DE25 lengthened by more than 10% and one being lengthened by 10% at this time. Check there are plenty of ideas in their builds in each build. Tom
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