In South America and Africa I have seen the use of long narrow panga style boats, about 20’ long, beam 4’10’’ with outboard engines from 20hp to 30hp that fish offshore all day long. These are planing hulls not displacement hulls.
Then if I search for an offshore capable boat in the same 20’ size in Europe or North America, all I can find are heavy weight monsters, with 7’ plus beam and a 150hp outboard requirement.
My conclusion are only two. The South Americans and Africans are drowning by the millions, or North Americans and Europeans are obsessed with safety and comfort.
Here is a design example of what I’m talking about. The Eduardono Dorado 210 https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0621 ... 1661994726
LOA: 20.64’/ 6.29m
BOA: 4.36’ / 1.33m
HOA: 2.2’ / 0.67m
Hull weight: 430 lb / 195kg
Engine: 20-25hp
Would it be possible without major safety concerns to increase the FS18 freeboard 20 inches and consider it as an offshore capable boat for 2 people ? I mean coastal waters 5 miles offshore with 15 knots of wind without dying? If there are safety concerns can someone explain in detail what they are and the reasons?
Would Jacques consider a new design in the lines of the Eduardono Dorado 210?
The world is going through an energy crisis. Im European, and in my country 1 litre of gasoline costs 2 USD. More then ever fuel efficiency is important.
FS18 OFFSHORE
FS18 OFFSHORE
Last edited by pedroe on Sat Oct 08, 2022 3:45 am, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: FS18 OFFSHORE
I have no idea if what you want is possible or not but I just have to ask why you do not just build a 20 Panga?
Re: FS18 OFFSHORE
Because bateau’s Panga 20 weights 450kg and requires a 50hp. After you are done it will weigh much more. What I’m asking is the same length and half the weight and half the hp.
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Re: FS18 OFFSHORE
I would say no. By the time you have built up the FS18 for what you suggest it would be as heavy as better options.
I would suggest the Pg20. It will run with a tiller 30hp if you are in no hurry and build it very simple.
Other options are the Fs17 built with no gunwale, just open tiller and a couple of benches.
Or the OB18. This not an offshore boat but you could build in big elephant trunk scuppers out the back and a lot of foam down the sides. Or benches with hatches sealed as well as you can. Idea being that you have so much flotation above the waterline that any boarding wave runs out the scuppers while your hatches keep out the water long enough to keep the boat upright.
I took a 3.5m dinghy offshore further than you suggest on a regular basis. It had so much buoyancy that being swamped was a temporary inconvenience in most situations.
https://www.smartwaveboats.co.nz/sw3500/
Build it like that and pick your days.
I would suggest the Pg20. It will run with a tiller 30hp if you are in no hurry and build it very simple.
Other options are the Fs17 built with no gunwale, just open tiller and a couple of benches.
Or the OB18. This not an offshore boat but you could build in big elephant trunk scuppers out the back and a lot of foam down the sides. Or benches with hatches sealed as well as you can. Idea being that you have so much flotation above the waterline that any boarding wave runs out the scuppers while your hatches keep out the water long enough to keep the boat upright.
I took a 3.5m dinghy offshore further than you suggest on a regular basis. It had so much buoyancy that being swamped was a temporary inconvenience in most situations.
https://www.smartwaveboats.co.nz/sw3500/
Build it like that and pick your days.
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Re: FS18 OFFSHORE
If you look at the FAO panga plan,s (disp. hull ) they are 6' beam from 15' up , they also have a narrow beam long boat / canoe . Based on the FAO 6' beam I don't think I would scale a panga,s beam below 6' . 2 people in a 4'6" beam boat cannot safely or comfortably get around each other , I would view it more in the canoe family . It is not an ideal set up for bow to stern offshore fishing , drop fishing only in a boat like that . There is the Nina 22 , not a 20 hp boat , but 30 should do if you keep it lite . You might be able to scale that boat down 5 to 10% and make do with a 20 to 25hp if you are looking to scale and have an offshore boat .
Re: FS18 OFFSHORE
I have never seen one quite that narrow, but you are describing the general Panga series as put together by the FAO section of the United Nations to get a boat to the Africa, South American and Southeast Asian people could build a small boat and venture out and safely fish to make a living with a low powered motor. They were eventually as with all things built bigger and with more HP but not excessive to be like the ones that Jacques patterned his Panga's after.
The problem with using the FS18 offshore for me is its being nearly a flat bottom from the middle of the boat back to the transom not its width. Take a look at the FS14 you could lengthen it by 10% to make it slightly over 15.5' long offshore more safely than the LS18. You will need to move the frames and put a deck on top of them to stretch the boat for a console. Or you use tiller steering and leave the seats in as designed. If you do use the FS18 I would also suggest raising the side so that they are 18-20 inches high. Some of the guys on here have done exactly this.
Well good luck and build on.
Tom
The problem with using the FS18 offshore for me is its being nearly a flat bottom from the middle of the boat back to the transom not its width. Take a look at the FS14 you could lengthen it by 10% to make it slightly over 15.5' long offshore more safely than the LS18. You will need to move the frames and put a deck on top of them to stretch the boat for a console. Or you use tiller steering and leave the seats in as designed. If you do use the FS18 I would also suggest raising the side so that they are 18-20 inches high. Some of the guys on here have done exactly this.
Well good luck and build on.
Tom
Restored Mirror Dinghy, Bought OD18 built by CL, Westlawn School of Yacht Design courses. LT US Navy 1970-1978
Re: FS18 OFFSHORE
This one is similar to the fs18, but with much higher freeboard. Not sure if is a displacement hull or a planing hull.
TomW1, for me flat bottom is a trade off that I’m willing to take for fuel economy. The Yamaha style pangas also have a center hull strip that is flat. Millions fish on those boats everyday.
TomW1, for me flat bottom is a trade off that I’m willing to take for fuel economy. The Yamaha style pangas also have a center hull strip that is flat. Millions fish on those boats everyday.
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Re: FS18 OFFSHORE
At that L/B it’s basically a motor canoe / cargo canoe. Hard to define planing for this type of boat, there is no discernible transition and it doesn’t really matter anyway.
Bateau doesn’t offer plans of that type. There used to be a plan called “Bosuns Mate 23” that was in this genre. I’m not aware of any others.
A scaled up Lillistone Fleet would give the performance you’re after. Have to completely redesign the scantlings and support though.
Bateau doesn’t offer plans of that type. There used to be a plan called “Bosuns Mate 23” that was in this genre. I’m not aware of any others.
A scaled up Lillistone Fleet would give the performance you’re after. Have to completely redesign the scantlings and support though.
Re: FS18 OFFSHORE
One quite out of fashion type of boat that might fit your needs is a coble. These boats were popular for fishing off the east coast of England in the last century. The North Sea isn't the safest place in the world by a long way, and these boats are certainly seaworthy - they were all working vessels and had to be safe. There are examples from ~3m (10') to over 12m (40'). Some of the old ones are over 100 years old, were eventually converted to use an engine and many are still in use as working boats. My first ever sea fishing trip, (and my most recent) was in one of these old, traditional craft, and it is possible to have a small pilot house installed also. The old ones were built without plans and were built strong for a long life, but I don't think they have to be built as "heavyweight monsters".
There are plans for a few of the smaller sized boats online but I've not seen anything close to 20' in length. They must exist though, but maybe still too heavy for what you need - I'm not sure.
A quick search shows there is a Welsford design online at 17', plus others. Welsford states: "Among small boat enthusiasts the Yorkshire Coble is legendary for its seaworthiness and unique styling. Developed for launching off steep shingle surf beaches and fishing along the iron bound shores of England's North East coast, these open boats are among the worlds most able small craft." "...spacious, simple to build and able under sail, oar or outboard motor...".
Good luck finding something that suits your needs.
Mick
There are plans for a few of the smaller sized boats online but I've not seen anything close to 20' in length. They must exist though, but maybe still too heavy for what you need - I'm not sure.
A quick search shows there is a Welsford design online at 17', plus others. Welsford states: "Among small boat enthusiasts the Yorkshire Coble is legendary for its seaworthiness and unique styling. Developed for launching off steep shingle surf beaches and fishing along the iron bound shores of England's North East coast, these open boats are among the worlds most able small craft." "...spacious, simple to build and able under sail, oar or outboard motor...".
Good luck finding something that suits your needs.
Mick
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VG23 (Designer Jacques Mertens)
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, con a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. Robert A. Heinlein.
VG23 (Designer Jacques Mertens)
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, con a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. Robert A. Heinlein.
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Re: FS18 OFFSHORE
Many of the FAO boats morphed into various other designs , I think Jaques had his hand in the FAO panga design . The boat you show looks like it came off the 8.6m FVDD canoe , you can find those plans free online . The OD16 can be run with a 25hp tiller steering and provide a safe reliable offshore boat within reason . I for one would take the FS18 as is 5 miles offshore in good weather , 30 miles is another matter . If you get into rough seas and weather in the boat you picture you are coming in at displacement speed anyway , so at 5 to 10 miles offshore a displacement hull should be an option . 5 miles at 6 kn is less than an hour at displacement speed , 20 kn is about 15 min. so you troll 45 min both ways and maybe catch more fish .
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