Ok! That is a different story. Thank you.OneWayTraffic wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:27 am I wrote a lengthy reply but it got deleted. The FS17 is 1.5m max beam on the bottom panels. 1.6 max at the water line. It’s not as wide as you would think.
FS18 OFFSHORE
Re: FS18 OFFSHORE
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Re: FS18 OFFSHORE
I must apologize.
I have confused the FS18 title of the post with the FS17.
I thought you were telling him the FS18, or Flats Stalker was offshore capable. Despite my reference to the FS17, I was genuinely referring to the FS18 and I even knew they were different boats..
Fast Skiff 17-okay offshore
Flats Stalker 18-no thanks
My dime on it.
I have confused the FS18 title of the post with the FS17.
I thought you were telling him the FS18, or Flats Stalker was offshore capable. Despite my reference to the FS17, I was genuinely referring to the FS18 and I even knew they were different boats..
Fast Skiff 17-okay offshore
Flats Stalker 18-no thanks
My dime on it.
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Re: FS18 OFFSHORE
Fallguy is giving good advice telling you to build the panga and settle on displacement speed with the 20hp and get a bigger motor later . But I suspect you don't want to get a bigger motor later , the reality is you drop down to a smaller design that the 20 will push without gambling on it being over weight and under powered , or you look at a displacement hull such as the HMD19 . The HMD could be modified to be just a basic open boat with no cabin , a 30 to 45 min. run to get to a fishing area should be no big deal , it,s the fish you catch that count . I used to fish out of a 16' boat and had no fear going out 30 miles offshore , the boat was designed for that , it is not about the size . I still say the Nina 22 would be a good compromise for you , you could ask Jaques about scaling down 10% length and beam , and the 20hp might push it fast enough
Re: FS18 OFFSHORE
That’s exactly it. For me a 20hp engine is the perfect size. It has the correct weight that a person can pick it up. In some occasions I have been stuck due to tidal drop, and I just removed the engine of the boat, and with some help I can drag the boat to the water again. Then I instal back the motor.This is a major advantage in places with big tides and gives piece of mind.rick berrey wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:05 am But I suspect you don't want to get a bigger motor later , the reality is you drop down to a smaller design that the 20 will push without gambling on it being over weight and under powered
I like small boats. A small boat can be dragged, a small boat can be pushed, a small boat can be turned upside down for cleaning/painting/maintenance with 1 person helping. I’m independent of harbors, fees etc. A small boat most of the time drafts only a few inches.
A small boat is easy on fuel consumption, and fuel cost is a major factor for me.
Now I need to find a compromise between a small boat, and a boat big enough to go 5 miles offshore in calm days.
I don’t like displacement boats. Some times I go fishing for 1 hour. I don’t want to be motoring all time and no fishing.
Robb White was also a fan of small boats:
https://www.robbwhite.com/sportboat.html
I have been using a small boat for 17 years. Before that my father use to have a 7m WellCraft, with a 170hp inboard gasoline engine. That was a very bad experience!
For those of you that are motorcyclists, you know the difference between a bmw R1250GS and a Suzuki DR400. The BMW is really nice and comfortable, but it’s heavy and you are limited in your destinations if you don’t have a good road. If it drops on a sand road, you better call for a crane.
I know this because I had a BMW 1250 Gs and a DR400. As I also had a 7m WellCraft and now a small boat.
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Re: FS18 OFFSHORE
Thanks Fallyguy I wondered if we were talking about the same boat.
Pedro the FS18 is the odd one out in the FS family. It stands for “flats stalker” while the FS12,14,17,19 are all “Fast skiffs.”
The FS19 is a scale up of the 17 and needs a minimum 50hp. The FS12 and 14 would perform very well with 20hp to the point of being overpowered but are really harbour boats. If going fast with the 20hp was more important than running inlets and going offshore the FS14 they could be considered but I would not like to run a nasty inlet with them.
The Fs17 hits close to the sweet spot. The best attribute of the boat is the almost complete lack of planing hump. Even if you have a big load and can’t plane you will be able to go smoothly at semi displacement speeds. That was explicit in the design of the boat and imo is a big safety factor. If you had a 30hp tiller it would be perfect. A 20hp is less than ideal but will push it if you keep it simple and do not overwhelm the boat. It is also much easier to change an outboard later on than it is to change the boat.
I used to be based in a city where the only two ways to access the sea were either through a Raglan, a nasty harbour bar or through Manu bay, a ramp exposed to waves. The bar eliminated most small boats from consideration. The surf ramp made it essential to have a crew to launch. My solution was unique among all the boats I saw there. I fitted wheels to the back and could drop the boat on the ramp, park the car, then wheelbarrow the boat to the water. For a situation such that you describe I’d get some pvc rollers, and use those to move the boat. Glued UHMWPE strips to the bottom would help and also provide some protection.
Pedro the FS18 is the odd one out in the FS family. It stands for “flats stalker” while the FS12,14,17,19 are all “Fast skiffs.”
The FS19 is a scale up of the 17 and needs a minimum 50hp. The FS12 and 14 would perform very well with 20hp to the point of being overpowered but are really harbour boats. If going fast with the 20hp was more important than running inlets and going offshore the FS14 they could be considered but I would not like to run a nasty inlet with them.
The Fs17 hits close to the sweet spot. The best attribute of the boat is the almost complete lack of planing hump. Even if you have a big load and can’t plane you will be able to go smoothly at semi displacement speeds. That was explicit in the design of the boat and imo is a big safety factor. If you had a 30hp tiller it would be perfect. A 20hp is less than ideal but will push it if you keep it simple and do not overwhelm the boat. It is also much easier to change an outboard later on than it is to change the boat.
I used to be based in a city where the only two ways to access the sea were either through a Raglan, a nasty harbour bar or through Manu bay, a ramp exposed to waves. The bar eliminated most small boats from consideration. The surf ramp made it essential to have a crew to launch. My solution was unique among all the boats I saw there. I fitted wheels to the back and could drop the boat on the ramp, park the car, then wheelbarrow the boat to the water. For a situation such that you describe I’d get some pvc rollers, and use those to move the boat. Glued UHMWPE strips to the bottom would help and also provide some protection.
Re: FS18 OFFSHORE
There is good advice in the replies above but let's summarize them by stating that you should not select a flats boat to go offshore, modified or not.
I loved to see the pictures of Faro: I was there a few times with my sailboat. I anchored in that lagoon but my preferred spot was Portimao.
There can be strong tidal currents in places and I agree that you need a planing hull.
There are many choices and two that I like are the OD16 and the FS17.
About the 20 HP engine, to get on plane with a small outboard is a matter of weight: focus on a light boat.
The OD16 is a big little boat that will easily plane with a 30 HP, not with a 20.
The FS17 may plane lightly loaded with a 20.
The FS17 is very seaworthy. There is a story behind the design. Some maritime museum asked me to redesign the Simmons Sea Skiff for their boat building course. Note that there is a consensus that the Simmons is very seaworthy. I disagree.
The Simmons has less buoyancy and it has a wide open motorwell type transom. By the USCG rules, it is less capable than the FS17. It is not self bailing. It is heavy. The Simmons Sea Skiff is a sacred cow, you can't criticize it but I proposed to redesign it with a safe high transom, no motorwell, self bailing and unsinkable with foam. The museum did not like it, they wanted the original. I kept my design and named it the FS17.
The museum finally decided to use our OD16 for their boat building classes and they are very happy with that choice.
For our Algarve sailor, I recommend the FS17.
I loved to see the pictures of Faro: I was there a few times with my sailboat. I anchored in that lagoon but my preferred spot was Portimao.
There can be strong tidal currents in places and I agree that you need a planing hull.
There are many choices and two that I like are the OD16 and the FS17.
About the 20 HP engine, to get on plane with a small outboard is a matter of weight: focus on a light boat.
The OD16 is a big little boat that will easily plane with a 30 HP, not with a 20.
The FS17 may plane lightly loaded with a 20.
The FS17 is very seaworthy. There is a story behind the design. Some maritime museum asked me to redesign the Simmons Sea Skiff for their boat building course. Note that there is a consensus that the Simmons is very seaworthy. I disagree.
The Simmons has less buoyancy and it has a wide open motorwell type transom. By the USCG rules, it is less capable than the FS17. It is not self bailing. It is heavy. The Simmons Sea Skiff is a sacred cow, you can't criticize it but I proposed to redesign it with a safe high transom, no motorwell, self bailing and unsinkable with foam. The museum did not like it, they wanted the original. I kept my design and named it the FS17.
The museum finally decided to use our OD16 for their boat building classes and they are very happy with that choice.
For our Algarve sailor, I recommend the FS17.
Jacques Mertens - Designer
http://boatbuildercentral.com
http://boatbuildercentral.com
Re: FS18 OFFSHORE
Am I the only one that breathes a sigh of satisfaction when Jacques responds to a long and much discussed post?
Jacques, I always appreciate your informative, educational, and well-reasoned responses(even when I wish the answer was different).
Jbo
Jacques, I always appreciate your informative, educational, and well-reasoned responses(even when I wish the answer was different).
Jbo
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Re: FS18 OFFSHORE
This forum was at its best when Jacques and Joel were active on a near-daily basis. Some of the current voices are…less informative.
For 20hp and his needs I like the high L/B pangas that the OP originally asked for. They are just not on offer here.
For 20hp and his needs I like the high L/B pangas that the OP originally asked for. They are just not on offer here.
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Re: FS18 OFFSHORE
Yes. Honestly, I don't even like the title of the thread because it might give someone the wrong idea. I do think a small panga would also work as I mentioned before...maybe not the 20'er.
Re: FS18 OFFSHORE
Hi Jacques! I don’t know why, but I feel proud that you know Ria Formosa, Faro and Portimão, and that you enjoyed your time here!jacquesmm wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 12:47 pm There is good advice in the replies above but let's summarize them by stating that you should not select a flats boat to go offshore, modified or not.
I loved to see the pictures of Faro: I was there a few times with my sailboat. I anchored in that lagoon but my preferred spot was Portimao.
There can be strong tidal currents in places and I agree that you need a planing hull.
There are many choices and two that I like are the OD16 and the FS17.
About the 20 HP engine, to get on plane with a small outboard is a matter of weight: focus on a light boat.
The OD16 is a big little boat that will easily plane with a 30 HP, not with a 20.
The FS17 may plane lightly loaded with a 20.
The FS17 is very seaworthy. There is a story behind the design. Some maritime museum asked me to redesign the Simmons Sea Skiff for their boat building course. Note that there is a consensus that the Simmons is very seaworthy. I disagree.
The Simmons has less buoyancy and it has a wide open motorwell type transom. By the USCG rules, it is less capable than the FS17. It is not self bailing. It is heavy. The Simmons Sea Skiff is a sacred cow, you can't criticize it but I proposed to redesign it with a safe high transom, no motorwell, self bailing and unsinkable with foam. The museum did not like it, they wanted the original. I kept my design and named it the FS17.
The museum finally decided to use our OD16 for their boat building classes and they are very happy with that choice.
For our Algarve sailor, I recommend the FS17.
Regarding your advice, it looks like I can’t escape from the fs17 and most probably a new engine. That is unfortunate, but what can I do..
Thank you very much to all participants.
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