Boat Recommendation

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greatlakesmann
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Boat Recommendation

Post by greatlakesmann »

I really appreciate all of your responses, originally I had thought about going with the DE25, and that lead me to ask what would be a good smaller boat to try to build first, and a lot of you mentioned the C17 as a good starter, or the C17 as a in between a smaller, starter boat and the DE25. Please bear with me here as I'm trying to narrow down what design I should be looking at.

However, I am thinking the DE25 might be a bit overkill for what I'm looking for and that the P19 might be a better option overall. Ideally, I'd like to be able to take the P19 to smaller inland lakes as well as take it on Lake Michigan, on possibly some not so nice days. I am wondering if the DE25 might be too large for this type of use case, maybe a DE23?

We currently have an 18 foot fiberglass bow rider that I have taken on short jaunts out on Lake Michigan, so I am familiar with a boat of this size. I feel comfortable using an open bow boat in rougher waters, and I've been in some good 3-4 foot rolling waves that were starting to stack up. However, I feel like a closed bow boat with self bailing capacity will handle these conditions even better. Even if you were to take water over the bow, it can't come in, and the self bailing ability will handle any rain or spray. However, there are some days where it's just too cold to be out on a bowrider, so while the hull handles the water fine, on colder days, it can be downright nasty. I'd like a pilothouse with windows that open, so I can either cool off, or warm up.

I'd still like to keep the "lake hopping" capability to take the boat and trailer out to a lake measured in acres (one of our favorite lakes is a long, skinny lake measuring around 450 acres), but also something that wouldn't shy away from a trip down the coast to Chicago for the day. I'm thinking something in the 19-26 foot range. I would also want to take this out on Lake Winnebago, which is another nasty lake. It's very long and wide, but shallow (only 21ft at it's deepest), so it can turn nasty in a heartbeat. 3 foot chop and breaking waves are not uncommon. I have not seen this personally, but from what I have heard, she can be a very fickle mistress.

Would the P19 be able to handle 3-4 footers? Again, my purpose is not exactly to throw caution to the wind, but I am limited in the amount of days I can go out, depending on the forecast. I would like to "open the window" of days that I can reasonably go out. I'm crazy yes, but if it really was too rough, I'd turn around. Ideally, I want a boat that I can take in some sloppy seas and handle it well enough. Or would the DE23/DE25 be better suited to handling larger waves? I hate looking at the forecast and thinking "guess I'm not taking the boat out on LM today..."

I also like the idea of pilot house and cuddy for when the wind blows, the rain pours, or it's just too damn cold to be outside. I don't think I would be staying overnight for extended periods of time, but I would like a pilothouse to get out of the weather, a head, and somewhere to sleep, even if not overnight, it may be nice on a long day trip to drop anchor and take a nap. I am tall, so a sleeping area of over 6'4" would be preferred.

If you were to build a pilot house/cuddy cabin with the intention of taking it "offshore" on the Great Lakes, where you might see 4-5 foot waves, what boat would you build? I want to keep the ability to get up and go, so the Maia and the Trawler are out, even though they look great, I imagine I would run myself loony putting along at 6 knots.

Currently the options floating around in my head are as follows, in no particular order: P19, DE23, DE25 Cabin, CX19, CX25. These are a few other options I haven't looked too closely at, but just from a glance, they do look interesting: P21, OP21, NV23, LB26.

My main criteria are: pilothouse, head, cuddy cabin, trailerable (less than 4500lbs total), outboard power.

My apologies for the long post, just want to get some feedback on what might be a good boat in your experience for what I'm looking for.

rick berrey
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Re: Boat Recommendation

Post by rick berrey »

I think the P21 would work unless you want more room , then the DE23 , these are the two boats between your DE25 and P19 range , both have trade offs . If your in 4' to 5' chop then your not going to go much faster than displacement speed , and the TW28 will start looking real good . The P21 should get you to shelter faster than the DE23 if you have to pull up and run . If your going to drop anchor and ride it out then the DE23 might give a little more comfort .

fallguy1000
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Re: Boat Recommendation

Post by fallguy1000 »

The C19 is the best all around fishing boat plan sold for big waters that can be used easily on smaller waters. It is a LOT of boat and you could make a portapotty spot in front of the console with some creativity by dropping down onto the hull.

One hull is available started.

The boat is not a simple build, but a heluva nice all around boat. It will not be as safe for Michigan, but you can't fish 4' seas in a DE25 anymore than a C19. Maybe you could try trolling, but probably you won't like getting tossed around the cockpit.

People misunderstand 4' inland seas and 4' swells. A 4' wave on Michigan is almost always in a fast pattern of 4 seconds which is horrible for fishing in anything under 30 feet or so; except maybe downwind trolling. On the ocean, wave periods can be longer which means more reaction time, more pleasant motions.

The c19 borders on too big to chase certain boat shy species, but nothing in Wisconsin or Michigan is super boat shy. Walleyes can be and planer boards can battle that.

My dime..
My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

greatlakesmann
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Re: Boat Recommendation

Post by greatlakesmann »

rick berrey wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 7:15 pm I think the P21 would work unless you want more room , then the DE23 , these are the two boats between your DE25 and P19 range , both have trade offs . If your in 4' to 5' chop then your not going to go much faster than displacement speed , and the TW28 will start looking real good . The P21 should get you to shelter faster than the DE23 if you have to pull up and run . If your going to drop anchor and ride it out then the DE23 might give a little more comfort .

Do you think the DE25 and the Trawler would perform similarly at hull speed, say, sub-10mph? I think maybe the DE25 paired with my current fiberglass bow rider might split the bill decently. Take the bow rider out on smaller lakes and take the DE25 out on bigger lakes? I suppose it’s hard to say how trailerable the DE25 would be, although the hull weight is 1,750lbs. Add in fuel, trailer, engine and gear you’re probably closer to 3.5k, which would pull fine behind our SUV.

Just food for thought. Hull characteristics aside the DE25 is only 3 feet shorter than the trawler, but I’m not sure how much of a difference those 3 feet make with a displacement hull vs a planing hull, it could be a major difference.

If they would perform similarly at slow speed, I suppose that would tip the scales in favor of the DE25, since it is outboard powered, and can get up and go should I want to get there quicker, which is not an option with the Trawler.

rick berrey
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Re: Boat Recommendation

Post by rick berrey »

There is not much difference in displacement speed between a 28' hull and 25' hull . You sound like you want a boat big enough to cruise on and not just fish , the DE25 will do that . There is a DE25 being scaled to a 27' , there are pictures of one in the finished boat section that is 29' . So if you want to go big there are builders that can help you along . If you want a fishing boat with a pilothouse then the P21 or the DE23 fits the bill , and you might as well sell the boat you have . But to me it sounds like you want two boats when it comes to intended use , you keep going back to the DE25 , if that is the case I would go with the DE25 .

greatlakesmann
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Re: Boat Recommendation

Post by greatlakesmann »

rick berrey wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:11 pm There is not much difference in displacement speed between a 28' hull and 25' hull . You sound like you want a boat big enough to cruise on and not just fish , the DE25 will do that . There is a DE25 being scaled to a 27' , there are pictures of one in the finished boat section that is 29' . So if you want to go big there are builders that can help you along . If you want a fishing boat with a pilothouse then the P21 or the DE23 fits the bill , and you might as well sell the boat you have . But to me it sounds like you want two boats when it comes to intended use , you keep going back to the DE25 , if that is the case I would go with the DE25 .

I’d like to cruise and fish, would the DE25 be decent for that use? I don’t need a huge space, but the back deck seems big enough to troll and to cast. And I would keep the boat I have, as I can take it to smaller lakes, one near my house is 150 acres or so, I think a 25+ foot boat with a cabin would be a bit much. And you are right, I do seem to be hovering around the DE25, I think that may be the one.

Thanks for your help.

Fuzz
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Re: Boat Recommendation

Post by Fuzz »

You do not want a 28 trawler for your uses. They are big boats and will not be easy to trailer. Plus real life speed will be around 6 knots. You have to have the need and the right mindset for that style of boat.
The best bang for your buck by far would be to buy Eric's C-21 hull. It is built right and is still unfinished enough to let you finish it like you want. Go to"for sale and anything else" and go through the thread. In his gallery on page 77 you can see him standing in the stern to get an idea of just how big that hull is. I will say that if it was within 2000 miles of me you would not get the chance as me and my truck would already be on the road to get it. And this is coming from a guy that already has two boats in that size class.

rick berrey
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Re: Boat Recommendation

Post by rick berrey »

The C21 is a great all around boat but it has no pilothouse and cabin , i doubt you can add those without some added design work . While another 3' is a big jump in space from his 18' boat he is not gaining what is lacking on the 18 which is a pilothouse and cabin . I like the LB26 and the Nina22 that was built with the cabin a few years back , either of those boats would do him if they had pilothouses . If the DE25 feels too big then go for the DE23 , that gives you two different platforms with a 5' difference , and it will still look like the DE25 .

Fuzz
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Re: Boat Recommendation

Post by Fuzz »

For me putting a pilot house on that hull would be no problem. Pretty sure he could get everything he has asked for from the C-21 hull. If he could live without a sleeping area, or at least a cramped one, the rest of his asks is doable. For some reason I seem to do a lot of fishing in lumpy weather and what Jayen calls "forken cold" so I understand those asks.
And yes one of the bigger designs would have some advantages but also a much longer build time. I just think Eric's C-21 is one nice build and at an almost give away price.

OneWayTraffic
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Re: Boat Recommendation

Post by OneWayTraffic »

Plans for Pilothouse consoles are sold on this site. It's not a hard job to make them wider or longer. You could add a small cabin space in front and have a walkaround.

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