Best boat for running into chop/ head-sea comfortably?

Ask questions before buying our plans or request a new design. Anybody can post here
Fuzz
* Bateau Builder - Expert *
* Bateau Builder - Expert *
Posts: 8921
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:23 am
Location: Kasilof, Alaska

Re: Best boat for running into chop/ head-sea comfortably?

Post by Fuzz »

Hey Barrelroll I run a 22 SeaSport out of Homer and Seward all summer long. I will tell you it will pound the fillings out of your teeth running much over 20 into 2-3 foot head seas. The charter boats you spoke of are 6-8 foot longer and a lot heavier than my SeaSport and that lets them run through a little bigger stuff and not pound you. A 20-25 foot deep vee might let you run faster in head seas but they have their own trade offs. Deep vees rock like mad on a drift and they need to be moving pretty good to stay on step. Plus they need a lot more power to move well. One of JM's designs that does not have a planning hump will let you till make good speed and not be fighting to stay on top. Some times the best answer is to slow down. If you already have a good 115-150 motor a 25 panga might be good answer but for our temps you will want a cabin of some sort. I still think an Abaco 23 would be a good boat. There was an GS28 built in Africa that would plane with a 85 hp motor.

fallguy1000
* Bateau Builder - Expert *
* Bateau Builder - Expert *
Posts: 10198
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:25 am

Re: Best boat for running into chop/ head-sea comfortably?

Post by fallguy1000 »

Fuzz wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 8:40 pm Hey Barrelroll I run a 22 SeaSport out of Homer and Seward all summer long. I will tell you it will pound the fillings out of your teeth running much over 20 into 2-3 foot head seas. The charter boats you spoke of are 6-8 foot longer and a lot heavier than my SeaSport and that lets them run through a little bigger stuff and not pound you. A 20-25 foot deep vee might let you run faster in head seas but they have their own trade offs. Deep vees rock like mad on a drift and they need to be moving pretty good to stay on step. Plus they need a lot more power to move well. One of JM's designs that does not have a planning hump will let you till make good speed and not be fighting to stay on top. Some times the best answer is to slow down. If you already have a good 115-150 motor a 25 panga might be good answer but for our temps you will want a cabin of some sort. I still think an Abaco 23 would be a good boat. There was an GS28 built in Africa that would plane with a 85 hp motor.
This is right up there for one of my favorite top 10 all time posts on the forum.
My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

Fuzz
* Bateau Builder - Expert *
* Bateau Builder - Expert *
Posts: 8921
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:23 am
Location: Kasilof, Alaska

Re: Best boat for running into chop/ head-sea comfortably?

Post by Fuzz »

:oops: :lol:
Thanks Dan

barrelroll
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:38 pm
Location: Juneau, Alaska

Re: Best boat for running into chop/ head-sea comfortably?

Post by barrelroll »

Fuzz wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 8:40 pm Hey Barrelroll I run a 22 SeaSport out of Homer and Seward all summer long. I will tell you it will pound the fillings out of your teeth running much over 20 into 2-3 foot head seas. The charter boats you spoke of are 6-8 foot longer and a lot heavier than my SeaSport and that lets them run through a little bigger stuff and not pound you. A 20-25 foot deep vee might let you run faster in head seas but they have their own trade offs. Deep vees rock like mad on a drift and they need to be moving pretty good to stay on step. Plus they need a lot more power to move well. One of JM's designs that does not have a planning hump will let you till make good speed and not be fighting to stay on top. Some times the best answer is to slow down. If you already have a good 115-150 motor a 25 panga might be good answer but for our temps you will want a cabin of some sort. I still think an Abaco 23 would be a good boat. There was an GS28 built in Africa that would plane with a 85 hp motor.
I've got a 115 merc with 3 hours sitting in my wife's parking spot looking for a home if I don't put it on the C-dory it came with. I think a 115 is too small for an Abaco.

I came up with this idea before I had a set of panga plans a while back and got mixed feedback. The top drawing is really too small to be usable for 4 people. Using existing framing the floor of the pilot house would be 6' long. Dropping the sole between the stringers to the bottom of the stringers with 5''8' to center of the pilot house crown total height of the boat would be around 6'. Keeping the width of the cuddy bulkhead and running that width to the end of the pilot house for straight sliding windows gives you a width of 60". The sides would be 3/8", roof 1/4", lexan side windows, glass windshields, I'm guessing about 200 pounds total built simple and light. It wouldn't be huge though it would be a dry spot comfortable for 4 adults to make a long run.

Image

fallguy1000
* Bateau Builder - Expert *
* Bateau Builder - Expert *
Posts: 10198
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:25 am

Re: Best boat for running into chop/ head-sea comfortably?

Post by fallguy1000 »

The Pangas are not suited for much mass up high, so full height cabins are not really practical. Or the boat is gonna roll abeam, tip over in heavy seas, etc.
My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

OneWayTraffic
* Bateau Builder *
* Bateau Builder *
Posts: 1663
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:13 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Best boat for running into chop/ head-sea comfortably?

Post by OneWayTraffic »

Agree. Too much weight. I was thinking open pg25 with just the pilot house console plan sold here and nothing else. Much less windage.

barrelroll
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:38 pm
Location: Juneau, Alaska

Re: Best boat for running into chop/ head-sea comfortably?

Post by barrelroll »

fallguy1000 wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 11:56 pm The Pangas are not suited for much mass up high, so full height cabins are not really practical. Or the boat is gonna roll abeam, tip over in heavy seas, etc.
OneWayTraffic wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 1:48 am Agree. Too much weight. I was thinking open pg25 with just the pilot house console plan sold here and nothing else. Much less windage.
What I'm proposing isn't much mass up high or much more windage than the pilot house plans sold here. The pilot houses sold here are 80" tall, add that to the 9" below the deck and the boat is 89-90" tall, my max height is under 72". The pilot houses are 45"-48 wide, the cuddy bulkhead is 60 3/4" which would dictate pilot house width if you wanted sliding side windows. The pilot house roofs are between 48 and 72" long, my roof would be less than 72" long when you factor in windshield angle and overhangs. Throw in the added weight of the pilot house sides vs using the hull of the boat and building a console vs. using the cuddy bulkhead for a console and the weight is getting closer. I believe they are similar in weight/ windage with the weight lower. Maybe it's a horrible idea, maybe it will work fine. I've got 2 weeks to figure out what boat we'll be in this summer.

Enough derailing this thread.

fallguy1000
* Bateau Builder - Expert *
* Bateau Builder - Expert *
Posts: 10198
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:25 am

Re: Best boat for running into chop/ head-sea comfortably?

Post by fallguy1000 »

Not a derail at all. The boat is pretty narrow. Start putting 100 pounds of solar panel on a roof or some such and it'll get unstable as the vcg rises. Very dangerous and the opposite of the goal.

This thread would not be complete without a shoutout to build a jumbo Tolman.

We'd love a thread.

Fuzz may be able to comment on their seakindliness. He's probably been in them.
My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

Fuzz
* Bateau Builder - Expert *
* Bateau Builder - Expert *
Posts: 8921
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:23 am
Location: Kasilof, Alaska

Re: Best boat for running into chop/ head-sea comfortably?

Post by Fuzz »

First of all we need to understand that Barrelroll has to have a cabin. An open boat is not an option for our weather. 50f with light rain is a normal fishing day here. I like his drawing for the panga cabin. I bet there is no more high weight than what a guy standing up to drive gives, if he builds it light like he was saying. Being wide does not always make a safer boat. Some of the best sea keeping boats ever built were long and skinny.
A Tolman will be harder to build and the builder will have much less support while building. The Tolmans are well proven and pretty good overall boats. But they have even less deadrise than my SeaSport so they will not buck into seas any better. There have been cases where the drivers did not slow down when they should have and broke the boats stringers. Much like many of the boats here they are not designed to be speed boats and run wide open regardless of sea state.They are designed to be safe and fuel friendly.

barrelroll
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:38 pm
Location: Juneau, Alaska

Re: Best boat for running into chop/ head-sea comfortably?

Post by barrelroll »

Fuzz wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 2:40 pm First of all we need to understand that Barrelroll has to have a cabin. An open boat is not an option for our weather. 50f with light rain is a normal fishing day here. I like his drawing for the panga cabin. I bet there is no more high weight than what a guy standing up to drive gives, if he builds it light like he was saying. Being wide does not always make a safer boat. Some of the best sea keeping boats ever built were long and skinny.
A Tolman will be harder to build and the builder will have much less support while building. The Tolmans are well proven and pretty good overall boats. But they have even less deadrise than my SeaSport so they will not buck into seas any better. There have been cases where the drivers did not slow down when they should have and broke the boats stringers. Much like many of the boats here they are not designed to be speed boats and run wide open regardless of sea state.They are designed to be safe and fuel friendly.
Yeah, the Fuzz has our weather down. Maybe 10% of the boats I see out on the water don't have a minimum of a windshield and top. Everyone I see getting in or out of an open boat on a rainy day doesn't look excited.

I have a 23'6" Tolman widebody more than half done in the shop. It was my first build, I'm trying to maintain way too high a build quality, added way too many time consuming features and there's almost 0 chance it's in the water this spring unless I quit my job. I've got 400-600 hours to get something ready by spring. I have the stringers for a 20' Tolman and plans for a 25' Panga with cuddy, as of now those are the 2 boats in contention. I'm not sure which would be quicker to build, either way it will be much more of a work boat finish and won't get weeks of sanding. I know a lot of mistakes I made on my first Tolman I could avoid on a second Tolman to save weeks of work.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests