Turns out I have a 5' oil filled elec heater. It seems to doing a good job, my work area is about 60 deg now.....
Taped the exterior tonite.
FL14 "Robjack" update
-
ks8
- * Bateau Builder *
- Posts: 8403
- Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 1:00 am
- Location: NC USA
- Location: Now a much longer sail to Tampa Florida! Back to NC, Youngsville FM05tw
If you try to push it up much higher in temp in this cold snap, if you get bored you can go outside and watch the meter spin! Bring a chair in case you get dizzy... 
You're inspiring me. I may laminate up the port additional chainplate partial frame this saturday, in the basement, so in the spring it will be ready to fit to the boat. And I suppose I could finish the rudder head laminations too. Gee, there aren't many parts left! Feels good!
ks
You're inspiring me. I may laminate up the port additional chainplate partial frame this saturday, in the basement, so in the spring it will be ready to fit to the boat. And I suppose I could finish the rudder head laminations too. Gee, there aren't many parts left! Feels good!
ks
Well, I had my first experience putting on fiberglass cloth; I can't wait to do more 
http://share.shutterfly.com/action/shar ... &sm=1&sl=0
That link should get you gory details.
First, taping the seams wasnt too bad. I wet out the surface applied the tape then thoroughly wet it out. Since I was planning to knock down the edges, I thought it might help to cover with plastic. Well, I didnt lay the plastic on perfectly smoothly and most lines in the plastic showed up in the epoxy. The tape has a hard edge so it really didnt help; I just ended up looking messy. Anyway, I sanded the edges and sanded away any drips.
One thing about the F14, the hull is so small, sanding isnt really that big a deal. I seems I am forever sanding the thing to clean up the surface. So I sanded the bottom and sides competely and wiped off all the dust until my rag picked up nothing visible.
Then I did the cloth on the transom (4oz). I wanted to finished the transom bright, but next day I noticed a whole bunch of air bubbles I didnt see. SHould have had better light. This cloth wet out easily. There are pics of the bubbles, so much for bright finish I think.....
Then I went to do the first piece of bottom cloth. This was a real pain because the hull was tacky. Even though I had precut all my pieces I had a heck of time getting the cloth on without massive wrinkles. Some help might have made it better, but I decided to leave the rest until the hull dried. As it turns out, I think the only real problem with this piece was some parts that didnt get enough epoxy....no major bubbles.
Next day, the next piece of cloth went on much better. I taped the edges with masking tape to keep the stringy bits down (see pics). However, the 3rd (final) piece was still a bit tough to start because it was tacky where I overlapped it, plus about another 4 inches due to brushing epoxy off. I think next time I might use plastic covering to keep epoxy from getting places I want dry. But, the real problem with the last piece is that my epoxy was going off when I applied it. I think some of it hardened a bit and stopped new epoxy from penetrating (see pics). There are quite a few white spots (along with a couple air bubbles).
I was really surprised how much epoxy it took to wet out this cloth and how much pressure was required to move the air bubbles out. I think I ought to try a wider squeegy too.....maybe a 9" or 12" one. It takes a while to wet out with the littlle (6"?) one and it seems hard to get a uniform coat.
Well, the whole idea with the FL14 was to get some experience with building a boat betore trying a bigger one. Now that I am in the thick of it, I am glad I did. Although some if it looks a little sketchy, I have only seen one air bubble big enough to pop and fill. I think the ones on the transom are too small.
If anyone has any tips, comments, pls let me have it. I am going to glass the rest of the hull sides with 4oz. And the inside, arghh... ; at least thats the plan.
I may take a breather tommorow. Dig out from the blizzard. Watch the Patriots pummel the Steelers .... figure out how to do a better job on the hull.
---------------
PS> Rest of my pics from the beginning of plywood. I havent quite finished labeling them all though
http://share.shutterfly.com/action/shar ... &sm=1&sl=0
http://share.shutterfly.com/action/shar ... &sm=1&sl=0
That link should get you gory details.
First, taping the seams wasnt too bad. I wet out the surface applied the tape then thoroughly wet it out. Since I was planning to knock down the edges, I thought it might help to cover with plastic. Well, I didnt lay the plastic on perfectly smoothly and most lines in the plastic showed up in the epoxy. The tape has a hard edge so it really didnt help; I just ended up looking messy. Anyway, I sanded the edges and sanded away any drips.
One thing about the F14, the hull is so small, sanding isnt really that big a deal. I seems I am forever sanding the thing to clean up the surface. So I sanded the bottom and sides competely and wiped off all the dust until my rag picked up nothing visible.
Then I did the cloth on the transom (4oz). I wanted to finished the transom bright, but next day I noticed a whole bunch of air bubbles I didnt see. SHould have had better light. This cloth wet out easily. There are pics of the bubbles, so much for bright finish I think.....
Then I went to do the first piece of bottom cloth. This was a real pain because the hull was tacky. Even though I had precut all my pieces I had a heck of time getting the cloth on without massive wrinkles. Some help might have made it better, but I decided to leave the rest until the hull dried. As it turns out, I think the only real problem with this piece was some parts that didnt get enough epoxy....no major bubbles.
Next day, the next piece of cloth went on much better. I taped the edges with masking tape to keep the stringy bits down (see pics). However, the 3rd (final) piece was still a bit tough to start because it was tacky where I overlapped it, plus about another 4 inches due to brushing epoxy off. I think next time I might use plastic covering to keep epoxy from getting places I want dry. But, the real problem with the last piece is that my epoxy was going off when I applied it. I think some of it hardened a bit and stopped new epoxy from penetrating (see pics). There are quite a few white spots (along with a couple air bubbles).
I was really surprised how much epoxy it took to wet out this cloth and how much pressure was required to move the air bubbles out. I think I ought to try a wider squeegy too.....maybe a 9" or 12" one. It takes a while to wet out with the littlle (6"?) one and it seems hard to get a uniform coat.
Well, the whole idea with the FL14 was to get some experience with building a boat betore trying a bigger one. Now that I am in the thick of it, I am glad I did. Although some if it looks a little sketchy, I have only seen one air bubble big enough to pop and fill. I think the ones on the transom are too small.
If anyone has any tips, comments, pls let me have it. I am going to glass the rest of the hull sides with 4oz. And the inside, arghh... ; at least thats the plan.
I may take a breather tommorow. Dig out from the blizzard. Watch the Patriots pummel the Steelers .... figure out how to do a better job on the hull.
---------------
PS> Rest of my pics from the beginning of plywood. I havent quite finished labeling them all though
http://share.shutterfly.com/action/shar ... &sm=1&sl=0
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Deltaskipper
- Frequent Poster
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- Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2002 1:00 am
- Location: Gateway to the California Delta
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Mike Adams
- Very Active Poster
- Posts: 774
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- Location: Gympie, Queensland, Australia
Steve,
Looking good! I got my hull taped today, but your tapes look a lot neater than mine. I'm using 12oz biax tape 6" wide, and I found it difficult to get neat foldovers at the bow and transom (pics in my FL14 thread).
Next job for me is covering the hull with biax cloth. You say that the first piece of cloth you put on was difficult because the hull was tacky - did you coat the entire hull before starting to apply the cloth? I was thinking of coating the hull in stages and unrolling the cloth as I go to make sure the epoxy is wet as the cloth is laid down, then rolling over it with a 12" roller before applying more epoxy on top of the cloth as necessary to finish wetting it out.
Looking good! I got my hull taped today, but your tapes look a lot neater than mine. I'm using 12oz biax tape 6" wide, and I found it difficult to get neat foldovers at the bow and transom (pics in my FL14 thread).
Next job for me is covering the hull with biax cloth. You say that the first piece of cloth you put on was difficult because the hull was tacky - did you coat the entire hull before starting to apply the cloth? I was thinking of coating the hull in stages and unrolling the cloth as I go to make sure the epoxy is wet as the cloth is laid down, then rolling over it with a 12" roller before applying more epoxy on top of the cloth as necessary to finish wetting it out.
FL14 "Lake Dreamer" built.
-
ks8
- * Bateau Builder *
- Posts: 8403
- Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 1:00 am
- Location: NC USA
- Location: Now a much longer sail to Tampa Florida! Back to NC, Youngsville FM05tw
Hello Steve,
I originally was going to post this in Terry's AD16 thread, but didn't. I don't have time to edit it now so I'll just post it here, copy n paste. Now you know why The AD16 is mentioned instead of your FL14.. Hope this helps...
--------------------------------------------
Some builders wetout the cloth off the boat, then lay it on the boat, the cloth being already soaked with epoxy (uncured
), but I did not do that. Too much stress to get it right before it sets up. I don't think I ever explained what I did on the Caravelle sheathing. (pictures I hope within the month... got to find them yet!) I laid the cloth on the dry hull (FG tape areas of keel and chine were already cured and sandprepped with 80 grit), smoothed the dry cloth nicely, then began pouring 4 oz mixed batches one at a time on the cloth in sections, starting along the keel seam first, and working it evenly in the cloth out to the chines (not overworking and making tiny bubbles though). I did not over squeege the excess out, because the dry wood was soaking up lots of epoxy. I did not rush to do any huge areas at one time. I worked slowly with small batches and let it wetout well, again because the wood was also soaking up quite a bit that went through the cloth. The result was that the epoxy bond to the cloth is the same cured batch that penetrated the wood fibers. I don't know how critical this is, but it sure made it very easy and clean to lay on the dry cloth on a dry boat and line things up before the goo was even mixed. After 30 minutes, in areas where epoxy was no longer soaking into the wood beneath the cloth, and pooling slightly, I squeeged the excess to redistribute it more evenly so the glass would not float in what were the pooling areas. Because they were small batches, they did not generate too much heat in the cup and *go off* too soon. I would go back to previous sections before I finished wetting out the whole thing. I wanted to finish squeegeing any area that needed it before it began tacking up. I had time to go back and finish the rest of the dry cloth, but kept going back to previous sections to see if it soaked up or pooled and needed a final spread. Some areas soaked up so much, they needed a touch more epoxy as the cloth was really starting to starve. Small batches helped ensure that they wouldn't fire off before they did the wet-out thing. Wetting out is difficult once the epoxy begins to setup, or impossible.. Fresh batches are important. One batch on the inside floor was flashing and not fixable, so I cut it out and redid before things got too hardened, but I was using biax tape there and it was easy to cut out a section of flashed tape. This would be awkward with a wide piece of cloth, but I suppose sharp scissors could help there. Small fresh batches really help make the job easier and minimize the problems associated with a batch going off too soon. imho.
For my first sheathing of a hull, I give myself a passing grade, but after one hull, I already know I could do better. I am not trying to build a museum piece though. Your D5 experience should help much. I sheathed in cool weather, so I had time to squeege after 30 minutes to minimize floating the glass (except for one small section, but we won't talk about that ). You're gonna do fine with the D5 experience behind you.
The cloth I used was 6 oz weave. I don't know what kind of cloth you're using, but the one who knows what he is talking about does! Jacques did a great job on the design, and it looks like your boat will be the first full size pictures we see. Feeling famous yet???
If you've precoated and washed and sanded, you won't have to watch for where epoxy is getting soaked up by dry wood like I had to.
But know this, it was much easier than I thought it would be.
I've worked with resins and other plastics and glass in the past, with all sorts of substrates, but never with epoxy on a boat project. It was almost pleasant.
And it was very clean until I got to the sides and excess dripped all around the boat. Lay down cardboard or plastic drop cloths, if you haven't already. I didn't care at first, but changing my mind in the middle of sheathing is a bit too late. Also, wear your epoxy shoes and epoxy hat. If they are not when you start, they will be when you are done. Trying to be too neat while sheathing such large areas can become a distraction to getting the job done well and timely. imo. If its cool enough, I suggest a cheap disposable Tyvek overall. I used one, and again, was not in a panic about accidentally leaning on goo.
Happy mixing, etc...... can't wait to see the pictures...
But you've got a bit of building and picture taking before you get to sheathing!
I'm jumping out of the thread again. Just wanted to encourage you that it will be much easier than you might imagine. It went mostly smoothly for me, I think, because I planned it out and used smaller batches to minimize disasters that might arise out of my inexperience with sheathing such a large area (like that one area we won't mention, though it was a small area, because it was a small batch). I had lots of spare measured and marked cups ready in case I started dropping them! I can usually use one cup for a dozen batches, before wanting a fresh one. I didn't drop any cups, but two batches went off before the cup was empty, but I said I wasn't going to talk about that.
Measure well.... its a lot of epoxy!
Sincerely,
ks
I originally was going to post this in Terry's AD16 thread, but didn't. I don't have time to edit it now so I'll just post it here, copy n paste. Now you know why The AD16 is mentioned instead of your FL14.. Hope this helps...
--------------------------------------------
Some builders wetout the cloth off the boat, then lay it on the boat, the cloth being already soaked with epoxy (uncured
), but I did not do that. Too much stress to get it right before it sets up. I don't think I ever explained what I did on the Caravelle sheathing. (pictures I hope within the month... got to find them yet!) I laid the cloth on the dry hull (FG tape areas of keel and chine were already cured and sandprepped with 80 grit), smoothed the dry cloth nicely, then began pouring 4 oz mixed batches one at a time on the cloth in sections, starting along the keel seam first, and working it evenly in the cloth out to the chines (not overworking and making tiny bubbles though). I did not over squeege the excess out, because the dry wood was soaking up lots of epoxy. I did not rush to do any huge areas at one time. I worked slowly with small batches and let it wetout well, again because the wood was also soaking up quite a bit that went through the cloth. The result was that the epoxy bond to the cloth is the same cured batch that penetrated the wood fibers. I don't know how critical this is, but it sure made it very easy and clean to lay on the dry cloth on a dry boat and line things up before the goo was even mixed. After 30 minutes, in areas where epoxy was no longer soaking into the wood beneath the cloth, and pooling slightly, I squeeged the excess to redistribute it more evenly so the glass would not float in what were the pooling areas. Because they were small batches, they did not generate too much heat in the cup and *go off* too soon. I would go back to previous sections before I finished wetting out the whole thing. I wanted to finish squeegeing any area that needed it before it began tacking up. I had time to go back and finish the rest of the dry cloth, but kept going back to previous sections to see if it soaked up or pooled and needed a final spread. Some areas soaked up so much, they needed a touch more epoxy as the cloth was really starting to starve. Small batches helped ensure that they wouldn't fire off before they did the wet-out thing. Wetting out is difficult once the epoxy begins to setup, or impossible.. Fresh batches are important. One batch on the inside floor was flashing and not fixable, so I cut it out and redid before things got too hardened, but I was using biax tape there and it was easy to cut out a section of flashed tape. This would be awkward with a wide piece of cloth, but I suppose sharp scissors could help there. Small fresh batches really help make the job easier and minimize the problems associated with a batch going off too soon. imho.For my first sheathing of a hull, I give myself a passing grade, but after one hull, I already know I could do better. I am not trying to build a museum piece though. Your D5 experience should help much. I sheathed in cool weather, so I had time to squeege after 30 minutes to minimize floating the glass (except for one small section, but we won't talk about that
). You're gonna do fine with the D5 experience behind you.The cloth I used was 6 oz weave. I don't know what kind of cloth you're using, but the one who knows what he is talking about does! Jacques did a great job on the design, and it looks like your boat will be the first full size pictures we see. Feeling famous yet???
If you've precoated and washed and sanded, you won't have to watch for where epoxy is getting soaked up by dry wood like I had to.
But know this, it was much easier than I thought it would be.
I've worked with resins and other plastics and glass in the past, with all sorts of substrates, but never with epoxy on a boat project. It was almost pleasant.
And it was very clean until I got to the sides and excess dripped all around the boat. Lay down cardboard or plastic drop cloths, if you haven't already. I didn't care at first, but changing my mind in the middle of sheathing is a bit too late. Also, wear your epoxy shoes and epoxy hat. If they are not when you start, they will be when you are done. Trying to be too neat while sheathing such large areas can become a distraction to getting the job done well and timely. imo. If its cool enough, I suggest a cheap disposable Tyvek overall. I used one, and again, was not in a panic about accidentally leaning on goo.
Happy mixing, etc...... can't wait to see the pictures...
But you've got a bit of building and picture taking before you get to sheathing!
I'm jumping out of the thread again. Just wanted to encourage you that it will be much easier than you might imagine. It went mostly smoothly for me, I think, because I planned it out and used smaller batches to minimize disasters that might arise out of my inexperience with sheathing such a large area (like that one area we won't mention, though it was a small area, because it was a small batch). I had lots of spare measured and marked cups ready in case I started dropping them! I can usually use one cup for a dozen batches, before wanting a fresh one. I didn't drop any cups, but two batches went off before the cup was empty, but I said I wasn't going to talk about that.
Measure well.... its a lot of epoxy!
Sincerely,
ks
KS...Thanks alot for the info. I just did my sides and I will post that next. I did cut down on the pot size and focused more on making sure the cloth was wet out (1st) then laying it down with no air bubbles (2nd) - but I was doing veritical surfaces here.
I do try to work neatly, otherwise glue and fiberglass strands and stuff is stuck to everything! And, agreed, I have "epoxy clothes"! Sacraficed to the boat. My wife has been trying to get me to toss these pants I have....well they are now epoxy pants and she will finally get her wish.
I do try to work neatly, otherwise glue and fiberglass strands and stuff is stuck to everything! And, agreed, I have "epoxy clothes"! Sacraficed to the boat. My wife has been trying to get me to toss these pants I have....well they are now epoxy pants and she will finally get her wish.
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