Another FL14 started!

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Mike Adams
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Post by Mike Adams »

Steve_MA wrote:Mike, Sounds like your knee deep into it. I was puzzled too about what portions of the design, frame, bottom, etc have the primary impact on how square it is. One that seems obvious is that if the sides arent exactly the same, it will never be square. I think this is why they have you cut one side based on the other.
I double/triple checked my frame and side measurements - all were accurate within a couple of millimetres and the sides were an exact mirror, so this wasn't my problem.
I dont know how much the bottom has to do with it because the bottom floats underneath the sides. Now, *if* the bottom is not true and you tighten up the sides to it, thats a problem, agreed.
I've done a lot of thinking about this overnight! I am pretty sure that this was the reason for the error. My son and I had a little difficulty lining up the sides with the edges of the panel bottom after it was cut out. The plywood I used is exterior and although it is of good quality with no voids, it is designed for building construction and is exactly 1200mm wide (not 1220 as specified in the BoM). This meant a small gap occured on each side at the butt block area - not a problem in itself, because it will fill with epoxy, but it gave extra room for some movement of the sheet when positioning. In addition, we could not quite align the panel with the sides at both transom and bow ends simultaneously - if one end was exactly positioned, the other would be out by about 5mm. I didn't worry about this at the time as the slightly overhanging edge can be trimmed later after filleting, but I now realise that when I pulled the stitches up too tight, I must have forced the hull sides to follow the slightly assymetric bottom panel. :roll:
However, I'm fairly confident now that I can restitch the bottom(loosely! :) ) and correct the out of square error.
It's 6:45a.m. Saturday here, and I'm just about to go out and get this job done, so I can still do some fillets today. We're in for another hot one today - 32degreesC, although not as bad as yesterday, which got to 38C.
Gotta go build me a boat! 8)
FL14 "Lake Dreamer" built.

Mike Adams
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Sucess at last!

Post by Mike Adams »

Well, my assessment was correct - it was an inaccurately scribed and cut bottom panel that was causing all the trouble. I spent 5 hours today reassembling the hull - turned it upside down again and removed the bottom panel, then trued everything up on the frames and sides and laid the bottom panel back on. The lateral error at the transom was immediately apparent - see pic below. (The same amount of error extends out beyond the opposite side).
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You can see the holes I drilled to take the original ties. When I tightened these up, the sides were drawn to follow the bottom panel error, thus throwing everything out of alignment. After a lot of work and the use of 4 drywall screws to hold the the transom in the correct place, I managed to get everything aligned properly, with the maximum error anywhere now only 4mm and most measurements within 2 - 3mm. :D/
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Correctly aligned and dead straight - at last! :D
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At last I was able to start the fillets, assisted by a friend who is also considering buying the DE23 plans. Our first attempt - filling the hole left by the incorrectly cut bottom panel - was a bit messy; we mixed too much fillet material and took too long doing it, with the result that it started to go off very quickly (I'm using slow hardener, but the temp got up to about 35C today. 8O ). We managed to complete the job, but it doesn't look very pretty. Still, it is in an area that will be filled with flotation foam, so I guess it doesn't matter too much. I've used biax tape as well, so there should be plenty of strength in the join.
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But we're getting better with practice! Here is the bow fillet:
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Knocked off after nearly 10 hours working on the boat today - having reassembled the hull, and finished the transom box, bow box, and mid-seat bottom side fillets. :D
Hopefully I won't make any more stupid mistakes...... :wink:
FL14 "Lake Dreamer" built.

rjezuit
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Post by rjezuit »

That's what I like to see. Even with errors and setbacks, you have gone forward and learned. And with your learning, I am learning also. I will be starting an FL14 when the weather gets a little nicer and am collecting knowledge now. Great job fixing the mistakes, hope the rest goes better. Rick

Mike Adams
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Post by Mike Adams »

rjezuit wrote:That's what I like to see. Even with errors and setbacks, you have gone forward and learned. And with your learning, I am learning also. I will be starting an FL14 when the weather gets a little nicer and am collecting knowledge now. Great job fixing the mistakes, hope the rest goes better. Rick
Thanks, Rick. I took a bit of convincing to do a small boat first (before the DE23), but I am very glad now that I did as there is just no substitute for experience. On another thread,
GrampaB wrote:Most people have the skill to do something they desire to do but only practice develops the craftsmanship that builds a really great project. Anything you do is a learning experience and I've learned very little or nothing by doing it correctly. A starter project makes a lot of sense when contemplating a big or expensive project.
Ain't it the truth! You don't learn anything much by doing things right first time. :wink:
Good luck with building your own FL14.
FL14 "Lake Dreamer" built.

ks8
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Post by ks8 »

Fillets are looking good. Have fun! It is rewarding when it finally takes shape, eh?

ks

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Deltaskipper
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Post by Deltaskipper »

When you cut the bottom does it rest on the sides or did you leave a gap between the bottom and sides?

Mike Adams
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Post by Mike Adams »

Deltaskipper wrote:When you cut the bottom does it rest on the sides or did you leave a gap between the bottom and sides?
Now that's an interesting question! As Jacques would say, "Gaps are good!" (Provided they're not the size of the ones I had.. :wink: ). From other posts on this forum I have since realised that ideally there should be a small gap between the edges of the sides and bottom, that can be filled with epoxy (although the FL14 plans and building instructions do not make this clear), but I just scribed the bottom panels to the outside edges of the sides. :?
Cutting out the bottom to sit inside the edge of the sides and leave a gap would probably require a bit more attention to accuracy in order to make it fit without ending up with oversize gaps. As it turned out, if I had cut the bottom to fit inside the sides, my bottom panel error would have been a lot bigger than it was!

As I understand it, the main reason for leaving a gap to fill with epoxy is to avoid hard spots, where wood meets wood and exerts excessive pressure. However, my bottom panel sits fairly evenly on the edges of the sides, so that's the way I left it. Because I had to correct my original error, the bottom/side panel edges didn't quite meet in several places anyway, so I ended up with some gaps for the epoxy to fill after all!

Got a few more fillets done today - it is several degrees cooler here in Canberra than it was yesterday and the mix stayed active a lot longer, which made the job a lot easier. I think my fillets are improving!
FL14 "Lake Dreamer" built.

Mike Adams
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Post by Mike Adams »

ks8 wrote:Fillets are looking good. Have fun! It is rewarding when it finally takes shape, eh?

ks
Sure is! Very happy with today's progress - I made a storage frame for the outboard and cut out all seat tops and outboard pad panels for the transom area.
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This is where the fuel tank will go:
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I was very unhappy with the messy first attempt fillets at the transom, so the other thing I did today was to cut out the worst areas and prepared them for re-filleting/glassing. I also lightly sanded the other areas already filleted to 'feather' the edges of the biax tape, and smoothed off the piece of dowel glued in the join of the panels at the bow) Bow is now ready for biax tape.
Image
I'm on leave again for a few days, so hope to get the remainder of the inside fillets done by the weekend and be ready to flip the hull. :P
FL14 "Lake Dreamer" built.

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Steve_MA
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Post by Steve_MA »

Hi Mike.....Looks good....my first attempt at fillets was way too messy as well.

I didn't cut my seat tops yet. Did you make templates to fit the curves in the hull or did you just do it by eye or other measurements?

The other question I had was how are you going to run the gas line from mid-seat to the transom? What do you have in mind for that.

It neat to see you designing yours to fit a motor so well. I am just doing a rowing version and not thinking much about accommodating an engine.

ks8
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Post by ks8 »

It neat to see you designing yours to fit a motor so well. I am just doing a rowing version and not thinking much about accommodating an engine.
You're the boatyard. You can always make the mods later if you want an engine on there. but the transom you have now may support an electric with a big battery under a seat. Battery compartments also need some ventilation. Even sealed batteries can gas out a little when charging, unless they have a proper safety rating in this regard.

When I saw the first pictures of the FL14's with people in them, it was amazing to see how roomy they are for 14 foot boats.

You'll probably both be finished before me! :lol:

ks

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