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AD16 - Cool Change

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:28 am
by ArizonaBuilder
Well tonight marks the start of "Cool Change".

I spent my first couple of hours drawing out the bottom and side panels.
Since space is limited in my garage, I will spend most of my time now cutting out all the panels and building my FG splices. I will also precoat the wood with it first coat of epoxy before building my basket mold and assembling the cut panels.

The name I have choosen is from a song by the group Little River Band.

COOL CHANGE
Little River Band

If there's one thing in my life that's missing
It's the time that I spend alone
Sailing on the cool and bright clear water
Lots of those friendly people
And they're showing me ways to go
And I never want to lose their inspiration
It's time for a cool change
I know that it's time for a cool change
Now that my life is so prearranged
I know that it's time for a cool change

Well I was born in the sign of water
And it's there that I feel my best
The albatross and the whales they are my brothers
It's kind of a special feeling
When you're out on the sea alone
Staring at the full moon, like a lover
Time for a cool change
I know that it's time for a cool change
Now that my life is so prearranged
I know that it's time for a cool change

I've never been romantic
And sometimes I don't care
I know it may sound selfish
But let me breathe the air
Let me breathe the air...

If there's one thing in my life that's missing
It's the time that I spend alone
Sailing on the cool and bright clear water
It's kind of a special feeling
When you're out on the sea alone
Staring at the full moon, like a lover

Time for a cool change
I know that it's time for a cool change
Now that my life is so prearranged
I know that it's time for a cool change

Now it's time it's time it's time it's time
For a cool change
MMM MMM I know it's time for a cool change
Well, now that my life is so prearranged
I know I know I know I know
That it's time for a cool change
Yes it is, yes it is yes it is
Time for a cool change..

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:49 am
by andrew lucking
Congratulations Terry!

I'm looking forward to watching this boat come together.

Cheers,
A.

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:16 am
by ArizonaBuilder
Not as much as I am watching your boat. The VG23 is my next build in a couple of years from now. I have always loved the lines of the VG23 and that is the boat that brought me to this site.

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:18 am
by Jonnas
Hello Terry!

I'm pleased to see you've started a builder's thread. I'm looking forward to follow your progress and wish you all the best.

Best regards.
JG

PS: "Cool" name :D

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:25 am
by ArizonaBuilder
thanks Jonnas,

Tonight I will be starting my first cuts and splicing the bottom and side panels. After the splices are done, I will use the completed panels to cut out their sisters.

since space is limited in my garage, I will be cutting out all the pieces before I actually start assembly. It will seem like a slow start but will move very fast, once I start stitching everything together.

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 11:31 am
by abr
Hi Terry !

I too wish you all the best !
ArizonaBuilder wrote:since space is limited in my garage, I will be cutting out all the pieces before I actually start assembly.
Same here: first kit mode then assembly mode.

I take this opportunity to compliment with you about your scaled model. Please keep us informed about the real thing.

TIA !!!

Angelo

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:08 pm
by ejohns
Congratulations Terry. I am sure you will have as much fun as the rest of us during construction. Good luck.

Ernie

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:57 pm
by ks8
Let the dust fly! (up the vacuum hose)

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 1:47 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
thank you for all the good wishes. It is going to be a fun build.

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:57 am
by ArizonaBuilder
Progress Update Week Jan 10, 2005

Day 1: Cut out bottom panel, side panel and cabin side panel and used belt sander to cleanup the edges.
Day 2: Spliced the cut out panels with one layer of biaxial tape.
Day 3: Flipped panels and added biaxial splices to the other side.
Day 4: Smoothed out any rough edges on the splices.
Used spliced panels to cut out the second set of bottom, side panels.
Positioned new set of panels over first set for alignment and put on first set of biaxial splices.
Since I decided I am going to precoat the panels before assembly, I precoated this set of panels. I will have to go back and precoat the first set, which were only spliced.

I tried to take some pictures today, but the lighting is too dark for my cheap camera. I will see if I can get some pics later today, after the sun comes up.
Image

This weeks schedule.
Day1: Flip second set of panels and add biaxial splices and precoat with epoxy.
Day 2: Clean up splices and clamp panels together so I can use a belt sander on the edges to make the panels the exact same size and shape. I made the second set of panels a little larger so I could use the belt sander to bring the second set down to the right size.
Precoat first set of panels.
Day3:
Flip panels and precoat other side.
Day 4:
Remove blush and sand all panels.
Day5:
Cut out deck panel and keel shoes from the 1/4" ply.

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:02 am
by jacquesmm
Good to see the progress.

I don't precoat and therefore, do not have to sand the blush . . .

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 2:31 pm
by ks8
Its good to hear someone can and is building during winter.

It snowed this morning. No epoxy til march for me.

Happy belt sanding!

Up here I'll be waiting for the *cool* to *change* to warm.

ks

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:47 pm
by llew
Terry good luck from SA as well! Cannot wait for your pics.

Jacques, could not help notice you saying that you do not precoat and therefor don't have to sand the blush. Please tell us more, i.e. is it really ok not to precoat?

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:28 pm
by jacquesmm
llew wrote:Terry good luck from SA as well! Cannot wait for your pics.

Jacques, could not help notice you saying that you do not precoat and therefor don't have to sand the blush. Please tell us more, i.e. is it really ok not to precoat?
OK, let's make this clear: I precoat just before applying the fillet and the tape.
In other words, I assemble the hull with plywood that is not pre coated but I always "prime" where I apply fiberglass or putty.
I prime those areas maximum 24 hours before starting the fiberglass, usually 1 or 2 hours before.
What the builder proposed here was to coat all the panels flat on the floor, assemble the boat then sand and apply putty and fiberglass.
The problem with that method is that you have to sand the assembly before starting with the fillets or fiberglass.
There is no advantage to that, quite the opposite.

Bottom line: you must prime or precoat the plywood but do it just a few hours before the fiberglass, not days in advance.

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:54 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Bottom line: you must prime or precoat the plywood but do it just a few hours before the fiberglass, not days in advance.
So when you FG the hull with cloth, is it fine to prime one night and lay cloth the next night with washing the blush or sanding. I don't think I could lay the cloth if the epoxy is still tacky or wet.

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:45 pm
by ks8
When you actually get to the point of sheathing... (gee, we'll see more pictures by then I hope)...

Deems panels are so shiney... looks like dey need to be roughed up a bit. Shoulds I sen da fellas owt and hav em woik 'em ova faw ya?

lookin good...

Fiberglass on tacky epoxy...wet on wet if you can

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:31 am
by JustRight
I think you'll find that the you can lay the fiberglass on tacky epoxy and if you don't press it down hard, you can pull and rearrange just fine. When in place, apply pressure to set the fiberglass and recoat with flowcoat of resin. I have used a little one inch wallpaper seam roller to roll down the fiberglass. For larger coverings of glass, it helps to have an assistant. Also, it helps to have the glass precut to shape before you start. You won't have much time to trim fiberglass after it is rolled in place.

I can see how Jacques builds boats in half the time I do. By precoating or priming shortly before filleting , you will get a better bond with the epoxy. If you can follow up with taping the fillets [assumes you can fillet smoothly enough that no sanding is necessary], you can really get a lot accomplished in one session. Good idea.

The problem I had was in a larger boat, you have to have some help to get everything done in one session. Once you stop to let the epoxy harden to the point that you can sand, you will have to water wash, scrub, and sand before applying the next coat. I always worry about getting the bare wood wet. That's why I flowcoated, scrubbed and sanded the panels before assembly. I thinned the epoxy for the prime coat. There are now very thin epoxies available which saturate easily and some advertise no blushing. [MAS resins] Scrubbing and sanding on a flat panel is much easier than once in the hull. The flow coat raises the grain slightly and when sanded, give a very smooth surface for subsequent layers.

I tended to tack the joints together between the wires. After the epoxy hardened, I pulled the wires and completed the fillets. I never learned to fillet smoothly enough that I didn't have to sand the fillets. If you have rough spots in the fillets or in subsequent layers of fiberglass, the fiberglass won't lay straight and you can get air bubbles or pools of thick epoxy under the next layer. If you sand agressively after the glass has set, you run the risk of sanding through the glass [cutting the threads] and weakening the layup. I can trace one notable failure in my rudder to having sanded the glass. The fiberglass is an essential part of the composite construction. It must be treated with care when sanding.

It is all a matter of technique!

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 8:56 am
by Steve_MA
I am doing an FL14 and getting to the point of glassing the hull. I am planning to precoat the hull and is some cases wait until its not tacky anymore to apply cloth. With the E-poxy sold online here, I think its safe to do within 24hr or so.

I haven't found a need to sand to my fillets either .....before it sets hard you have alot of time to shape it. Also, I dont put the tape until it starts to set up, that way you arent likely to massively mis-shape your fillet when you add the tape. I ended up using a spoon to shape the fillet before tape, a 3" roller to press the tape into the fillet, and my fingers wet with epoxy to smooth make sure the fillet is smooth and shaped as desired.

I am no expert, but thats my plan/experience. Good luck.

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 9:12 am
by jacquesmm
ArizonaBuilder wrote: So when you FG the hull with cloth, is it fine to prime one night and lay cloth the next night with washing the blush or sanding. I don't think I could lay the cloth if the epoxy is still tacky or wet.
I apply the fiberglass on wet or tacky resin but you can wait at least 24 hours without the need for snading or washing.
That is a valid method for our Marinepoxy and SilverTip. Standard System Three is OK too up to 24 hours but not more. WEST and MAS MUST be sanded. I don't know about other resins but I would sand.

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 10:01 am
by ArizonaBuilder
I wonder if putting a piece of plastic down between the wet epoxy and cloth, so you can slowly remove the plastic while positioning the cloth, would work.

I am just thinking about when glassing the outside of the hull. Not sure it would work for the inside glassing.. Just another crazy thought.

Something like pulling the backing off of double sided tape while you are laying it down.. :doh:

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:47 am
by jacquesmm
For large pieces, roll the glass on tube then unroll on the boat.

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:00 pm
by ks8
I laid dry cloth over dry wood and poured epoxy over the cloth and worked it through, in cool weather. It was very easy. Used small 3 to 4 oz batches so any mistakes would be small ones (like the one I won't mention).

But I also did smaller panels where some were tacky, and some were completely cured washed sanded before the cloth was added. On the tacky ones, I was concerned about a wrinkled misaligned mess. All you do is pre fold the dry cloth to a size you can handle, but is folded in a way that logically it will progressively *rollout* into position. But I did not let the rolled up bundle sit on the panel, but held it air borne as I slowly applied and few inches at a time made sure it stayed aligned, flat, and not wrinkled. It worked out well, but you may want a few extra helpers for handling the large pieces used for sheathing a hull. Make sure they have very clean and dry hands when handling the cloth with you, and are aware of the whole epoxy on clothes risk. Maybe do a dry run of the operation on a dry hull before the tacky epoxy is waiting for you.

Getting the sheathing done is a rewarding milestone. Enjoy the moment.

Well, I just read Jacques reply which he posted while I was writing mine. Sounds like how I'll do the next hull. The tube sounds like the way to go! Probably won't need the helpers rolling it off a tube.

ks

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:04 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Great replys. Since I will be building alone, now I know how to take sheathing the hull..

thanks again.

Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:34 am
by ArizonaBuilder
Well, another week has past and it is time for my weekly update.

I finished cutting out all the hull panels from the 1/4 ply, along with
all 12 pieces for the keel shoe. The 10 sheets of 1/4" Okoume are now parts and a pile of scrap lumber.

I also cut out the CB case, the skeg and stem pieces and one of the 3 pieces making up the CB from my 1/2 ply.

This week I plan on cutting out the rudder and CB pieces and assembling the rudder, CB case and CB. If this goes well I will start to cut out the frames and stringers from the 3/8 ply.

Assembly is getting closer but it will probably be another 2 weeks before I get to see the hull taking shape.

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:45 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Time for another update.

Since I finally got the CB and CB case dimensions sorted around.
I have cut out the CB panels and laminated them together. I also inserted some 2" round delrin stock at the CB pivot point. The delrin bushing was drilled with a 5/8" hole which will accept the 5/8" SS tubing. When I glued the delring bushing into the CB, I roughed up the outter edge and drilled some small shallow holes around the outside of the bushing and around the
inside of the hole cut out of the CB. I coated the bushing and the hole with wood flour glue making sure the small holes were full of glue. So when this all drys, I am hoping the bushing never dislodges from the hole.

The CB case sides are cut and I coated the inside with 2 coats of epoxy and some 4oz cloth, I had kicking around from the D5 build. But now I am wondering if I should add another layer of 4oz, incase the doug fir decides it wants to check in the future. Inside the CB case is not a place I want to deal with wood checking and creating an avenue for water to enter the wood case. I glued the side pieces on last night using a 2x2 at the front edge and a 2x1 for the back edge. The cleat sizes were determined after placing the CB inside the case and checking for the clearance forward and aft. The 2x2 at the forward edge is large enough that the CB can only drop so far before contacting the forward edge and fully extended appears to be at the correct position as seen on the plans.


I have also cut out the rudder and laminated the two pieces together.

Tonight I will cleanup the rudder edges and cut out the lightening holes.
I will add another layer of 4oz cloth and epoxy to the inside of the CB case so tomorrow, I can assemble the two halves together. Hopefully after this weekend, I can move on to cutting out the frames and stringers.

Thats it for now. I will try and do a couple of pictures this weekend.

Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:45 pm
by ks8
I put only one layer of 6 oz in the CB trunk also. Then one coat to fill weave, then microballoons/silica, sand fair, and final seal coat. Then 4 coats primer brush and tipped on. I'm debating a coat of cuprox/teflon, but I do want to go in lakes that are part of the watershed, and CuprOx is a no no then. I really don't think it will check even as is. :lol: But if it does, it should be awhile for that to happen, and I have an alternate idea for another trunk then anyway, one that more easily allows swapping in a fully pivoting spare while in the water, in under a minute, without undoing the other pivot bolt and having to deal with the north atlantic gurgling up into my boat. :)

I have had no checking anywhere that I put a single layer of 4 oz, and certainly not with the 6 oz. I started the build 4 years ago. But I do not have years of experience with this stuff either, in the water.

Of course no primer or fairing mix is within a half inch of where the two sides of the case will bond together, and where it will be biaxed into the hull bottom I will be roughing it up before joining the two sides so that the bottom 2 inches of the inside will bond well to the biax that wraps into it from the underside of the hull. Once I bond the two sides of the case together, She's done regarding any primer or paint or changes.

All that glass and epoxy may thin the slot if you didn't apply any in the bond area for the two sides, and doing the same to the CB will thicken it. Be Careful of the obvious!

Sincerely,
ks

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 2:43 pm
by jacquesmm
ArizonaBuilder wrote: I also inserted some 2" round delrin stock at the CB pivot point. The delrin bushing was drilled with a 5/8" hole which will accept the 5/8" SS tubing.
Don't we show a square piece of Delring drilled round? That keeps it from turnning with the pivot.

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 6:59 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
jacquesmm wrote:
ArizonaBuilder wrote: I also inserted some 2" round delrin stock at the CB pivot point. The delrin bushing was drilled with a 5/8" hole which will accept the 5/8" SS tubing.
Don't we show a square piece of Delring drilled round? That keeps it from turnning with the pivot.
Yes, you did. When searching for delrin stock it was outragest the price they want for a 1 1/2" thick flat stock. I know now, I could have gotten thin stock and cut a series of squares to build up the thickness. :oops:

To keep the round stock from turning, I drilled a series of short holes in the delrin tube and in the wood. These holes were filled with wood glue before putting the delrin stock in the hole. The epoxy will harden and act like little fingers sticking into wood and into the delrin to hold the bushing in place. I am hoping this stops any turning or sliding out of the hole of the delrin bushing.

I could also drill some 1/2" holes right through the CB with the center of the hole at the boundary between the delrin and the wood. This would give me a half circle in the delring stock and a half circle in the wood. When this hole is completely filled with epoxy glue, this would act as a wedge that would stop any rotational movement. But I don't think I need to be that extreme.

Since the SS tube is not tight inside the delrin bushing, there shouldn't be a lot of rotational force to cause the bushing to rotate. :doh:

Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:18 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
This update is not about Cool Change, but about my first sailing lesson this week. The class has 20 eager students all wanting to learn the basics of sailing. We spent the first night for 2 1/2 hours going over the parts of the boat and theory on how the sails and wind forces work. It was a great class and the 2 1/2 hours seemed like an hour. Yesterday we went to a local man made lake called Tempe Town Lake where we were broken up into groups and were shown how to rig and derig our boats. We will be sailing in Capri 14.2s and Sunfishes. The Sunfishes were surprising easy to rig, but I was amazed how much rigging was required for the Capri's. For such a small boat they had the main and jib, along with boom vang, outhaul, downhaul, etc. We weren't able to get the boats on the water due to the amount of rain, we have had in Arizona and water access was closed to the public. We did however practice some tacking maneuvers on land with the capri's on their trailers. We have 3 more sessions of class room and on the water sailing. I am already feeling good about taking Cool Change to the lake when it is done. It should be a great boat for sailing around the lake's here in Arizona.

Now off to get Cool Change built..

I was also speaking to the Arizona Game and Fish at the local boat show here this weekend and they are the ones who will issue me a hull number for the boat. They want to see sale slips for the purchase of materials to prove I am the builder of the hull and did not steal it from someone. They also indicated that pictures taken during the build process would also be proof that I built the hull, if I couldn't locate the sale slips. Also credit card purchases from e-boat. etc. The USCG also said they would come to me and make a free safety inspection, but the AFG said I would have to bring the boat to them.

State Farm said I would need a boat survey to determine the market value of the boat for insurance. And they quoted a ball park figure of around 150.00 a year for a boat with a value of 5,0000.00.

Slowly the pieces are starting to fall into place.

Insurance

Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:24 pm
by JustRight
Terry,

If you receive a certificate from your sailing class, it might help to lower your insurance rate. Membership and/or certificates from USCGA or Power Squadron may lead to a lower rate.

Check out BOAT US insurance.

Glad to see that you are proceeding on the boat.

Re: Insurance

Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 3:58 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
JustRight wrote:Terry,

If you receive a certificate from your sailing class, it might help to lower your insurance rate. Membership and/or certificates from USCGA or Power Squadron may lead to a lower rate.

Check out BOAT US insurance.

Glad to see that you are proceeding on the boat.
The Small Boat course is a certified program from US Sailing.

Thanks Justin, I will make sure I mention it to the insurance company..

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:03 am
by ArizonaBuilder
Finally, I have cut out the last part from the 22 sheets of plywood making up the AD16. Now I will complete any FG splices and will prep the parts for assembly. I spent last night cleaning the garage and throwing out all the scrap wood.

Looks like I will be finally building the basket mold this weekend.
It sure will be nice to finally see a boat starting to take shape..

Pictures coming later this week.

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:30 pm
by chrisobee
That must have some chop fest. I hate to hink how much wood you are pitching. It just seems like a huge amount of waste. I have been unable to throw away the scrap from the sheets that I have cut. I figure that I will finish the project and see what I can use along the way. I did use a short piece of 1/4 merenti ply to fix a hole in the wall of the stairwell leading to my garage. The whole house is made of oak lumber so I figured it was fitting.

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:36 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
ChrisObee wrote:That must have some chop fest. I hate to hink how much wood you are pitching. It just seems like a huge amount of waste. I have been unable to throw away the scrap from the sheets that I have cut. I figure that I will finish the project and see what I can use along the way. I did use a short piece of 1/4 merenti ply to fix a hole in the wall of the stairwell leading to my garage. The whole house is made of oak lumber so I figured it was fitting.
Actually they did a great job with the nesting and I had very little scrap. But since my room is limited, I thought it was time to do some house cleaning.
However, I did keep some 1/2 and 3/8 scrap for backing plates..

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:55 am
by abr
Hi Terry.
Many thanks for the new pics in your gallery:

http://gallery.bateau2.com/thumbnails.php?album=234

I really liked the "Lost-hull". You have got a "boat in a box": now just add some epoxy and ... voilà :wink: :wink: :wink:

Keep building and sending pics. Thanks in advance

Angelo

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:47 am
by ArizonaBuilder
I am building my basket mold right now. The strong back is built and the 3 frames at locations, transom, Frame C and Frame A. I am in the process of attaching these to the strongback.

I will take some pics of the basket mold when it is complete.
I really liked the "Lost-hull". You have got a "boat in a box": now just add some epoxy and ... voilà Wink Wink Wink
I can't wait to see that hull taking shape. very soon now. :)

Basket mold

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:06 pm
by JustRight
Terry,

I hate to beat a dead horse after the previous long threads on basket molds.

But. When I looked at your rendering for the basket mold, I wasn't sure whether it extends to the transom. From my experience with the VG, I recommend having a full frame at the transom.

Shaping the bow can be a problem. I gather that JM recommends a spreader half way back but you might find it handy to have some of the strong back extend forward enough to have something to push/pull the bottom a bit in order to get the shape right.

I do like the version of the strong back/frame in your rendering better than the early particle board egg crate since you will be able to selectively assemble and disassemble parts of the frame as needed during the glassing.

Looks like your are making good progress. We will probably be going through your area mid April on our way to the planned Dry Tortugas cruise. I look forward to seeing your AD then.

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:14 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Justin,

My basket mold extends from the transom to Frame A, the bow is unsupported to allow for the bending and pulling back of the bow to establish the proper shape of the hull and the length of the boat.

There is full support at the transom, Frame C and Frame A with 2x4's defining the shape of the bottom and side panels. At Frame D and B, I only have supports for the bottom. This way the panels have some type of support between Frames A,C and Transom. I decided to not go with the particle board the defines the stringer shape as shown in my renderings of the basket mold.

Also the basket mold is setup that when I have the boat on its side to fiberglass the hull I will be able to remove enough of the mold to accomplish the task. I will have to modify the basket mold later when the keel is added to the hull bottom. Which shouldn't be a big deal, since I will have a very strong hull..

Hull assembly should begin next week, so come April, when you are driving through Phoenix, I should actually have a boat to show you and Edith. Hopefully it is not the week of the 11th, as I will be over in San Diego for a 4 day cruise..

I am looking forward to seeing you guys again, so keep in touch.. :)

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:13 am
by ArizonaBuilder
Well another week has gone by and now I can officially mark this date as when I started to assemble Cool Change.

I uploaded a couple of pics showing my basket mold and the assembled hull panels.

Next I will tab the hull so I can pull the stiches and start with the fiberglassing of the chine and keel seams. After that I will apply the biaxial cloth to the bottom. I am not sure how I am going to get the cloth layed on the bottom since there is no way I can stand outside of the boat and apply epoxy to the cloth and I don't think I really want to be climbing inside the boat until the cloth is layed.. :help:

PVC Braces

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:39 am
by popiworks
Terry,

I can see in your pictures that you used what appears to be 2" pieces of 1" pvc pipe as a brace inside the hull. I have not see this done before (Great Idea!). Is there anything on the exterior of the hull that is used in conjunction with the internal pvc pipe?

Re: PVC Braces

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:18 am
by ArizonaBuilder
popiworks wrote:Terry,

I can see in your pictures that you used what appears to be 2" pieces of 1" pvc pipe as a brace inside the hull. I have not see this done before (Great Idea!). Is there anything on the exterior of the hull that is used in conjunction with the internal pvc pipe?
Yes, I actually used 2" x 3/4" pipe on the inside of the stitches to help with edge alignment. Nothing is used on the exterior side of the hull. The pvc pipe simply aligns the edges of the ply when the stitches are tightened. I bought a 10' length of pipe and used my circular saw to cut the short pieces. With the blade guard held back I was able to cut the pieces in no time.

I can't take credit for the idea as I read about this technique a year ago, somewhere on the net. I also liked the idea and it worked great for aligning the edges.

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:14 pm
by abr
ArizonaBuilder wrote:I decided to not go with the particle board the defines the stringer shape ...
... I don't think I really want to be climbing inside the boat until the cloth is layed ...
Hi Terry !
The building notes say to support the bottom panels from below. If not the "particle stringers", maybe several piles of books ? Some old tires ? It's a temporary thing.

Use large HD foam pads under your feet/knees to spread the load, and walk/stay over the bulkheads.

Or, for a revolutionary solution, use your hang glider harness suspended from the ceiling of your shop: :wink: :wink: :wink:

http://www.icaro2000.com/Gallery/HG%20G ... ry%20L.jpg

BEWARE about ultralight flight: it's addictive; the only fix I know is ... boatbuilding :D

Many thanks for sharing the "piped stitching" technique !

Angelo

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:48 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Angelo,

thanks for the idea about the HD pads.

If you look at my basketmold you will see that the boat is supported on the bottom at each frame location from A to transom.

When you mentioned about transferring the load using the pads made me think about using a length of 1x6 board to crawl on to help support my weight. :idea:

A couple of 1x6's one on each side of the keel should do just nicely.

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:25 pm
by glcost
Terry,

From your new pic's, I'm surprised to see that the AD has a flat stem on the bow. Are my eyes working right?

The progress looks great.

George

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:33 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
glcost wrote:Terry,

From your new pic's, I'm surprised to see that the AD has a flat stem on the bow. Are my eyes working right?

The progress looks great.

George
thank you. And yes, your eyes are not failing you yet.

The stern piece is flat. In another forum, I was asking one of the other builders how or if he was going to round out the stern piece . I want a rounded looked to the front of the bow, so I will be building it up with HD foam and plyood inserts where the bow eye and the chainplate are attached.

So my approach to the bow, will be. Firberglass the inside and outside of the bow piece with the required laminations. Followed by a build up of the stern piece with foam and plywood inserts, with a final shaping and fiberglassing. I hope the approach is acceptable with Jacques..

Tonight, I am going to notch my stringers and frames so I can put them into the boat. I want to do a dry fit of the frames so I can check the hull shape and make any small adjustments before I immortalize its shape with epoxy.

When I am happy with the shape of the hull I will epoxy tab the chine and keel and let this cure for 24 hours before removing the frames and stiches and starting my fillet and FG work.

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:46 pm
by jacquesmm
glcost wrote:Terry,

From your new pic's, I'm surprised to see that the AD has a flat stem on the bow. Are my eyes working right?

The progress looks great.

George
Look at other sailboats: the bow isn't razor sharp. Often the radius is a few inches. In this case, at the cut water, the radius will be less than 1".
That stem piece makes the boat stronger and easier to build.
One can always sharpen the bow but there is no reason for it.

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:55 pm
by jacquesmm
ArizonaBuilder wrote:
So my approach to the bow, will be. Firberglass the inside and outside of the bow piece with the required laminations. Followed by a build up of the stern piece with foam and plywood inserts, with a final shaping and fiberglassing. I hope the approach is acceptable with Jacques..
You can do that but there is no other reason for it than esthetic preference.
You don't need it for performance but if you like the looks of a sharp bow, add some foam ect. as you write.

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:05 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
I agree with Jacques, the stem piece made assembly very easy and gives a nice strong area for the bow eye and chainplate.

I am going to round the front but very slight, and only for esthetic purposes.

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:16 pm
by glcost
jacquesmm wrote: That stem piece makes the boat stronger and easier to build.
One can always sharpen the bow but there is no reason for it.
Thanks for the explanation. I really like the look of the AD and have gone over the study plans many times but never noticed the flatten stem. I hope to build one in the future and sail it in Puget Sound.

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:21 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Well, I will keep posting pics and maybe we can get you to break down and start the boat earlier than planned. :)

:)

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:05 pm
by glcost
Well, I just started a C17 and my progress hasn't been too good. It's pretty bad when you're just starting to build a boat and you're already planning the next.

I added a signature.

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 9:19 am
by ArizonaBuilder
glcost wrote:Well, I just started a C17 and my progress hasn't been too good. It's pretty bad when you're just starting to build a boat and you're already planning the next.
Especially when you are building a large boat. Many of us have built small prams and have dreamed about that larger boat while building.

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 9:43 am
by ArizonaBuilder
The true test for hull shape was last night when I notched my stringers and frames and placed everything in the hull. The dry fit went extremely well with everything fitting in the hull perfectly.

I have only one adjustment to make to the basket mold at frame A. The upright supports holding the angled 2x4s which define the v shape at Frame A are hitting the botton of the hull raising it a 1/2 higher than it should be. Tonight I will take the angle grinder to those 2x4s, which will allow the bow to sit down a little. I was happy and surprised at how accurately the stringers followed the curvature of the hull along the length of the boat.

This is an attestment to the quality of the plans.
It also helps if the parts are cut out correctly.

Image

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:31 am
by Jonnas
It looks great Terry! Carry on! And how are your sailing classes going?

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:34 am
by ArizonaBuilder
Jonnas wrote:It looks great Terry! Carry on! And how are your sailing classes going?
Thanks Jonnas,

Well we had our first day on the water this past Saturday.
The winds were blowing between 15 and 21 mph with gusts upto 25.
The instructors decided that the sunfishes would not go out on the lake as it was too windy. So everyone piled into the Capri 14.2s for a day of fun in the sun. We had 3 people per boat where we would rotate positions to get some experience working the jib, main or tiller.

Needless to say, since everyone had none to very little sailing experience. 90% of the class went swimming that day. It is amazing how much a 14 foot boat will heel in 20 mph winds. The water was a balmy 68 degrees so it wasn't too bad getting wet. It was however surprising how much effort was required to climb back into the boat after it was righted.

Here is a picture of the man made lake where the sailing classes are held.

Image

and some aerial shots of the lake.

http://www.tempe.gov/lake/middle.htm

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:40 pm
by Mike Adams
Nice job, Terry.
Needless to say, since everyone had none to very little sailing experience. 90% of the class went swimming that day. It is amazing how much a 14 foot boat will heel in 20 mph winds. The water was a balmy 68 degrees so it wasn't too bad getting wet. It was however surprising how much effort was required to climb back into the boat after it was righted.
My original interest was in building a sailing boat, but after I discovered how agile you have to be to learn to sail, I decided to opt for a more sedate form of water transportation for my retirement and chose the DE23...!! :lol: :lol:

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:38 pm
by Jonnas
It is amazing how much a 14 foot boat will heel in 20 mph winds.
That's all part of the fun :P . But I'm sure the AD16, considering the ballast she has, will be/feel more stable, although she will also heel a lot if the skipper let her :wink: .
It was however surprising how much effort was required to climb back into the boat after it was righted.
That's the only thing that worries me regarding the AR15. She is about the same size as the Capri 14.2 but has a much larger sail area, so I'm sure swimming will be involved as well :? .
Back then at my youth, when I sailed the Laser, I had no problem getting in after a capsize (our instructor even had the nasty habit of asking us to deliberately capsize during trainning). But the Laser (and also the Snipe I've sailed last summer) have a lower freeboard and also I know that now I'm overweight and not so agile. So, I'm seriously thinking of building her with an open transom (I'm working on the design) and I would suggest you to install a small ladder on Adelie's transom (a nice feature also for the kids if they want to go for a swim). I don't particulary like the "rudder with holes" solution ...

Happy building (and sailing).

Cheers!

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:22 pm
by llew
Jonas I reckon that's a good idea. I installed the transom on the AD16 last week, and I have a cutout in the middle, right down to the cockpit sole level...i.e. you can basically walk out the back and into the water. And it looks really nice in my opinion.

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:49 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
llew wrote:Jonas I reckon that's a good idea. I installed the transom on the AD16 last week, and I have a cutout in the middle, right down to the cockpit sole level...i.e. you can basically walk out the back and into the water. And it looks really nice in my opinion.
Come on, where are the pics.. :D

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:09 pm
by abr
ArizonaBuilder wrote:Come on, where are the pics ...
Hi guys ! Waiting for llev's pics here is mine: :wink: :wink: :wink:

Image

Let me explain: I absolutely must avoid to cause any YABS (Yet Another Boat Sindrome) to my old parents, whose health is decreasing with age. My wife suggested to keep a low profile behavior, while only my two kids are encouraging me to build a "sleep inside" boat to explore new territories. So, here we are ... :wink:

It's friday, at last :D

Angelo
AD16 "BuzzyLogic" stealth builder

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:10 pm
by Jonnas
I sure hope those speakears are waterproof :P :P :P
Great picture!

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 11:22 am
by llew
[/quote]Come on, where are the pics..

Hi Folks, I posted some more pics today. My progress has slowed now that the major structural work has been done. I keep coming up with little extra's....

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 6:30 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
llew,

You are doing some great work.. It was really nice seeing your pics.

I am currently bottom glassing the inside hull and will start with the frames and stringers later this week.

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:55 pm
by Jonnas
Terry,

It's been awhile since I've heard from you. Is everything ok? How is the building going?

Best regards.

Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:29 am
by ArizonaBuilder
Jonnas,

Thanks for asking.. Yes, everything is great. The build is going slowly but inching along.

I am currently adding the sole cleats to stringers and frames. At this stage I am spending a lot of time trying to decide which of the sole chambers will contain floatation foam and which ones will be storage.

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:47 pm
by Jonnas
Terry, thanks for your reply and I'm glad everything is ok.
Regarding the storage hatches, remember to consider the weight distribution and keep all the heavy stuff near the boat's centerline (I know you know that ... I just had to say something :wink: ).
When can you show us some new photos?

Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:32 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
thanks for reminder about keeping the weight low and centered. Sometimes we forget the obvious.. :)

I will take some new pics when I have completed FGing all the stringers and frames and have added all the necessary cleats for the sole. Maybe this weekend.

Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 12:20 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Time for an update.

I have been busy, installing the internal floor structure, adding the cleats, coating plywood, floatation foam etc. It is almost time to install the sole. Another mile stone almost completed.. :)

Image

Image

Image

I also decided to build my main sail from a kit..

Here it is: Sail in a bag..

Image

Image

The sail is made from 4 oz dacron with 2 reef points and a rope luff. The sail has 3 full batens and consists of 10 panels which I will have to sew together. The kit appears to be very complete with all the materials required to build a complete sail. I was very surprised at the cost of the kit, very affordable.

For the price of a completed main sail, I was able to buy the main sail kit,
two die set tools, a sewing machine capable of sewing multiple layers of denim, canvas workers guide book and still have a couple hundred left to buy my genoa sail kit.

I have also been busy buying hardware from ebay and so far have gotten some great deals on bow eye, perko SS cleats, harken fiddle blocks, 6" inspection plates, sextant.

The only remaining major issue now, is where to find a trailer.

Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 12:27 pm
by abr
Hi Terry.
Many many compliments for your boat: she looks great ! I can just imagine your satisfaction.

I read you've got a sestant ... how far are you going to sail ? :wink:

Thanks for your updates. Please keep sending them.

Angelo
(future AD16 builder)

P.S. What's that opening in bulkhead D for (@center under the cockpit floor) ? Just curious ... If it was Llev, I'd bet it's a place for a microwave owen :wink: :wink: :wink: (sorry Llev ...)

Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 11:37 am
by ArizonaBuilder
abr wrote:Hi Terry.
Many many compliments for your boat: she looks great ! I can just imagine your satisfaction.
Thanks Angelo, Yes, I am very happy with the way everything is going together. It is a great design and I can't wait for that day when it finally hits the water.
abr wrote: I read you've got a sestant ... how far are you going to sail ? :wink:
The purpose of the sextant was not about sailing the open blue waters, But a quest for knowledge. As my knowledge increases, my areas of interest changes. Right now it is about navigation. I have been studing the NOAA charts and the S-57 standard. The sextant I purchased was the Davis Mark 3. The cheapest sextant I could find for study purposes.
abr wrote: P.S. What's that opening in bulkhead D for (@center under the cockpit floor) ? Just curious ... If it was Llev, I'd bet it's a place for a microwave owen :wink: :wink: :wink: (sorry Llev ...)
No microwave. :) I am thinking about using that area under the sole as storage for long pole items. Not quite sure yet. or even if I can get access to that area once all the strutural pieces are together.

Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 1:00 pm
by llew
Terry the boat is looking GOOD and thoroughy waterproofed as well. A really great job.

Can you tell me what page you are on in the builders galleries. For some reason I cannot find it (although I have before).

I am interested in the mainsail kit, so will google "sailrite" and take it from there, but perhaps you could give us a better idea of the price, because it sounds really competitive.

I promise to put some more pics on the site at the end of this week. I have been away and busy on other matters and progress has been slow.

Once again, well done..."Cool Change" is beginning to take shape!

Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 11:27 am
by ArizonaBuilder
llew,

It appears that I am on page 10 of the builder's gallery.
I am interested in the mainsail kit, so will google "sailrite" and take it from there, but perhaps you could give us a better idea of the price, because it sounds really competitive.
The price was 400.00 for the fully batten main sail, with two reef points.
The sail cloth is 4 oz dacron. The kit is very complete and the instructions are fantastic.

With the kit I also bought two die sets for setting the grommets at the clew, tack, head and reef points and a book from their founder, called Complete CanvasWorkers guide. That set me back another 60 - 70.

I also bought a euro-pro home machine which can do 8 layers of demin
and a zig-zag stitch for 100.00 at my local target store.

I started building the sail this weekend and it is a fairly easy task building the pieces of the sail. The sewing machine has worked very well and was able to go through 6 layers of cloth with no problems. Sailrite calls for using basting tape on the seams before sewing so there is no slipage of the cloth, if your machine does not have a walking foot. The toughest part is managing the sail panels as you sew them.

So the price breakdown is as follows:

400 - main sailkit
100 - sewing machine
70 - die sets and book
230 - jib/genoa sailkit ( have not purchased)

Total 800.00 approx.

Looking forward to seeing some more pics. I finished installing the sole this weekend and I am now moving onto installing Frame C, B etc.

Give them a call and speak with Jeff, he is their main designer and now has all the specs for the main sail. Just ask for the Adelie 16 sail or mention my name. He will be listing the sail on their website along with all the other sails for other boats but that won't happen until the fall when he gets some free time.

Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 12:04 pm
by llew
Terry thanks for the detail. You've got me really keen to follow suit. The kit is already listed, Jeff did reply pomptly to my mail (and I did mention your name thanks). If only I can find a local dealer here that will sell a machine for R600 that can sew through 8 layers of denim!!

I will post some pics tomorrow (to cold outside right now to take pics!). I think you may like what I have done with the windows. I procrastinated LOTS about a final design and cut outut when I arrived at what I have now I was very satisfied. I intend to turn the boat in the next week or two. I have just finished epoxy coating the deck (just to prevent wood damage whilst turning). when it is turned, I need to do the centerboard slot, glass the bottom (as per the layup instructions I am only goig up about 150mm up the side panels). I will eventually then finish the bottom and side panels (painted) before turning back up again. Then I will paint the topsides and finally I can start on the interior.

I have slacked off a lot in the last month or so, but have got my motivation back...as July is drawing inexorably closer.

regards

Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 1:36 pm
by JollyLolly
Hi llew
Bly te kenne.
Just looked at your gallery, those fillets are amaaazing!

Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 6:02 am
by llew
Thanks JollyLolly,

ek het n' bietjie gesukkel initially, maar dit word gou makliker.

ek gaan later vandag meer prentjies byvoeg.

weer in Pretoria is tipies warm winters dag..gaan later braai.

Sterkte daar in Vancouver.

llew

sorry chaps...bit of the mother tongue you know....

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:19 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Well, It has been a couple of months since my last update.
The build is progressing nicely even though I only have a couple of hours in the mornings to do any work. The evening temperatures right now are just too hot to accomplish anything in the garage without losing a gallon of water per minute in sweat.

Since my last update I have added the cabin top and sides. The top and sides have been FG'ed and the mast partner has been installed.

I am in the process of adding the additional framing for the lexan windows.

I was able to find a local source for some 1/4 lexan XL10 at 5.00 per sq ft.
The only problem is that I have to buy a 4'x8' sheet. This actually may prove to be more economical as compared to paying 10.00 - 20.00 a sqft for smaller pieces from local glass shops. The larger sheet will give me enough lexan to make my windows and a lexan companionway hatch and possibly a forward hatch.

http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userp ... C00091.JPG

http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userp ... C00092.JPG

http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userp ... C00094.JPG

http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userp ... C00095.JPG

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:34 pm
by Mike Adams
Looks good, Terry - was it difficult working in the confined cabin space?

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:47 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Thanks Mike,

Actually working in the cabin is not too bad, it is a very roomy cabin with enough head room while sitting.

What I am not looking forward to is working in the spaces under the cockpit seats.

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 1:56 pm
by llew
Hiya Terry, I am please to see another AD16 with the cabin on. I also like your window design. I found that sitting inside, the smaller window up front allows you to look forward which is helpful when you're trying to work out where the noise is coming from.

Your boat is going to look good!

cheers
llew

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:48 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Llewellyn,

Thanks,

Since those pictures were taken, I actually increased the height of the cutout by an 1" and decreased the radius of the corners. I am looking for
a nice sweeping line from one window to the next with a slight break between the windows. I will be using 1/4" lexan which will be through bolted at 2" intervals. I am either going to buy tinted lexan or use standard window tint to give me that smoked look. I need to price out the tinted lexan as compared to the clear stuff.

So how is your build going. Did you get her wet yet?

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:16 pm
by BrandonG
I think I may have changed my mind on my next boat after having seen how well your AD16 has gone together.

I had always planned on building a second one after the CR11 was complete and I had something to "play" with while I contemplated my next project. Originally I thought that it would be the VG20. I have spent a lot of time looking at how I plan on using the boat and what I really want to do with a larger boat. A few things have changed since I started these long term plans (I now have a son on the way ) but, overall I think what I want to do stays the same at least for the next 10-15 years.

I love the idea of being able to throw a couple of sleeping bags into the boat, sailing out to an island or remote beach, camping overnight and coming back after the weekend is over. The AD16 seems to be a great boat to do this in. I like the safety features it has; positive foam floatation, good righting moment, etc.

However; the VG20 also seems to be well equipped to do this and more. I still have a while before making a plans purchase so I will keep thinking about what to do.

One of my requirements is that I be able to completely construct and store the boat in my garage. The VG20 is on the upper limit of that but the AD16 seems to be a good match for that requirement. I know this seems pretty silly to a lot of people to make a boat decision based on my garage dimensions ï

Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:58 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
I think I may have changed my mind on my next boat after having seen how well your AD16 has gone together.
Thank you. It is a nice boat with alot of room in the cabin. I still need to determine how I will install some basic creature comforts.. potti, stove, water, storage. If you were to build the VG18 or VG20 these issues have already been figured out for you.
I had always planned on building a second one after the CR11 was complete and I had something to "play" with while I contemplated my next project. Originally I thought that it would be the VG20. I have spent a lot of time looking at how I plan on using the boat and what I really want to do with a larger boat. A few things have changed since I started these long term plans (I now have a son on the way ) but, overall I think what I want to do stays the same at least for the next 10-15 years.
I am also planning on using the AD16 as something to play with while I figure out which boat will be my next one. I am currently looking at the VG25 as the boat for the next 10 - 15 years. In the mean time the AD16 should be able to handle any sailing I plan on doing over the next couple of years.
I love the idea of being able to throw a couple of sleeping bags into the boat, sailing out to an island or remote beach, camping overnight and coming back after the weekend is over. The AD16 seems to be a great boat to do this in. I like the safety features it has; positive foam floatation, good righting moment, etc.
It is a great design and with the minimal accommondations, it is a easy boat to build as compared to a VG18, VG20.
One of my requirements is that I be able to completely construct and store the boat in my garage. The VG20 is on the upper limit of that but the AD16 seems to be a good match for that requirement. I know this seems pretty silly to a lot of people to make a boat decision based on my garage dimensions
Have you considered the VG18, it has all the same offerings as the 20 with slightly less room in the cabin. Jacques did a great design job with the VG18. If I wasn't already building the AD16, I would have pick that one. You are not the only one who selects a boat design based upon garage dimensions. We all are limited in the space we have for building.
If I want to build the VG25, I am going to have to move or find a building I can rent while I build.
In the meantime though; I will continue to follow your progress. Your boat looks great and I like what you have done with the windows as well. Is there any chance that you have Design Cad 3D Max or something similar that you could use to render and post your window specifications?
I have used a product called Blender, it is a free open source 3D package, that has a high learning curve. However I did take a look at the DesignCad 3D max package and it looks like something I may buy, as I want to design some parts for the boat and a 3D cad package could come in handy.

As for the windows, my goal was to have the windows follow the hull lines of the cabin.

The first thing I did was to lay some poster board on the cabin side panels and I drew a line 2" in from the cabin seams and 2" in from the frames at the ends of the 3 windows. I then used a 3" radius circle on the 4 outside corners. This gave me the outside dimensions of the plywood frame for the windows. Now that I had the outside shape of the plywood frame cutout, I next drew a line 2 1/2" in from the outside of the frame. This new line defined the window cutouts. I next determined where the frames cut across the window so I could also leave a 4" section at the frame locations. Next I rounded the 4 corners of each of the windows with a small radius of around 2". I then put the plwood frame on the hull holding them with some tiedown straps. When I was happy with their location, I drilled a 1/4" hole through the frame on cabin sides, so I could insert a 1/4" dowel which would act as an alignment aid. Next I cut out the window openings with the plywood frame strapped to the hull. After that the frame was removed and epoxy glue was smeared all over the frame.
I put the frame back on using the 1/4" dowels for alignment and several clamps held the frame in place while the epoxy hardened. Today I placed a fillet all around the outside of the window frames so I will have a smooth transition from the cabin side up to the frames.

I am using 1/4" lexan for the windows and the lexan will have a 1 1/2" overlap on the window frame and will be through bolted with the bolts at 2" centers.

The bolt spacing and the overlap values with determined from reading an article by a marine surveyor. He indicated that the lexan should have a minimum 1" overlay and the bolt spacing should be 8x the window thickness. Hopefully Jacques agrees with those numbers.

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:16 am
by BrandonG
I used Design CAD 3DMax to create alterate lightening holes in the CR11 frames. In 2D mode it works great. I think that in 3D mode it works OK but, it is obviously not anywhere near as powerful as a professional CAD package. You can see the modifications here, http://home.earthlink.net/~b_grooters/c ... notes.html, under the frames section. I have not updated this site since March though so it is a bit behind my progress.

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:20 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Time for an update....

Here I have the interior cockpit seats primed and ready for the final topcoat. Sure was a big job finishing these compartments.
I applied 3 coats of epoxy, followed by fairing with quikfair, followed by 3 coats of primer. I next sprayed a red guide coat and sanded 75% of the primer off. Next I applied 2 more coats of primer. Now just a light sanding and the final 3 coats of paint. Did I forget to mention all the sanding that occurred between the epoxy, fairing and primer. Once I have the seat tops on I will be just about ready to flip her to finish the bottom of the boat.
Image

Here I added a donut collar to the mast partner. The collar will allow a secure connection for the rubber sleeve that attaches to the mast and the hull. Hopefully it is also water tight. Also in this picture I have applied the 4oz cloth to the cabin top.

Image

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:06 pm
by Rick
ArizonaBuilder wrote:Here I have the interior cockpit seats primed and ready for the final topcoat.
You did all that work on the inside of your seats? Wow. I would have put on a couple of coats of epoxy and called it a day. I am not worthy.

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:26 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Rick wrote:
ArizonaBuilder wrote:Here I have the interior cockpit seats primed and ready for the final topcoat.
You did all that work on the inside of your seats? Wow. I would have put on a couple of coats of epoxy and called it a day. I am not worthy.
LOL

I would have quit at a couple of coats of epoxy, if those compartments were not visible and accessible from inside the cabin. The area under the seats are suppose to be extra sleeping quarters or storage. But
I think of them as two coffins.

:) :)

oh ya, I am not going to clear coat those compartments. :) :)

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 8:32 am
by tech_support
nice lockers :D

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:54 am
by ArizonaBuilder
Shine wrote:nice lockers :D
Nothing like a nice set of lockers.... :) :)

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:40 pm
by tech_support
8) pretty, fair, smooth, nice.... lockers

Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 2:45 pm
by jyurasits
llew and Arizona Builder,

You guys have both done a fantastic job on your builds! I would like to build my own boat one day and have been learning all that I can from reading this board and examining the pictures posted. I think the AD14 or AD16 will best fit the program I have in mind (weekend sailing in the lakes of VA and the Chesapeake Bay).

I have compared many designs of boats in this class and the AD seems to excel in design and functionality.

Would it be possible for you to post pictures of the finished cabins? I am curious to see how they ended up. I would also appreciate seeing how a person fits inside.

Thanks!

Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 3:35 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Would it be possible for you to post pictures of the finished cabins? I am curious to see how they ended up. I would also appreciate seeing how a person fits inside.
Thank you for the compliment. Currently my boat is upside down while I am fairing, priming, painting the hull.

I can take a pic, but I don't think me sitting on the roof of the cabin will tell you much. :) :)

When the boat gets flipped back upright I will take a couple of pics of people sitting inside and laying down. :) :)

Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 4:03 pm
by jyurasits
Thanks, Terry--I'll wait for the inside shot!!

Good luck with the finish work...

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 12:13 am
by jyurasits
I did have another question--how are you guys raising and lowering the keel/centerboard? In llew's pictures of his boat sailing, it looks like a sheet is attached to one end of the centerboard top as it comes out of the trunk on the cockpit sole. Do you have or plan on a winch system? I think I read something about the keel/centerboard locking in two positions--are those UP and DOWN?

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 2:10 am
by ArizonaBuilder
jyurasits wrote:I did have another question--how are you guys raising and lowering the keel/centerboard? In llew's pictures of his boat sailing, it looks like a sheet is attached to one end of the centerboard top as it comes out of the trunk on the cockpit sole. Do you have or plan on a winch system? I think I read something about the keel/centerboard locking in two positions--are those UP and DOWN?
The CB will be raised and lowered with a standard sheet by hand with no winches. The CB only has around 60lbs of lead to counteract the boyancy of the CB. It will be easy to raise and lower. The rest of the ballast is in the bottom of the hull at the front end of the CB case.

You can drill a hole through the CB and the CB case so a wood dowel can be inserted locking the CB in the fully up position and half way down. The fully down position is controlled by the position of the CB in the case where the CB case itself stops the CB from going down any further.

The rope to raise and lower the CB is called a painter and I will have it going through a small wood block on the top of the CB case. The block will have a small slot. The rope will be knotted in different locations and the rope can be locked in different positions because the knocks cannot pass through the slot. To stop accidental unlocking of the rope I will also pass the loose end of the rope through a cam cleat on the rear edge of the CB case.

The only other issue is what to do to stop the CB from crashing back into the CB case incase of the boat going turtle. I have been thinking about some type of spring mechanism that locks a rod into a slot in the CB when it is fully extended or simply putting the dowel back in the CB case after the CB is fully down. I haven't given it a lot of thought yet.

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 2:47 pm
by jyurasits
ArizonaBuilder wrote:The rope to raise and lower the CB is called a painter and I will have it going through a small wood block on the top of the CB case. The block will have a small slot. The rope will be knotted in different locations and the rope can be locked in different positions because the knocks cannot pass through the slot.
That slotted block is a good idea--that way you can adjust the CB for varying wind conditions, right? I have noticed on a lot of ebay used boat auctions that the seller mentions problems with the winch cable breaking or fraying and needing replacement. Your solution avoids that and the problem of the winch handle getting in the way.

Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 11:39 am
by ArizonaBuilder
jyurasits wrote: That slotted block is a good idea--that way you can adjust the CB for varying wind conditions, right? I have noticed on a lot of ebay used boat auctions that the seller mentions problems with the winch cable breaking or fraying and needing replacement. Your solution avoids that and the problem of the winch handle getting in the way.
Correct knots at different locations along the painter allow you to set the CB to different heights. The CB is light enough to allow the use of a simple painter sheet.


http://bateau2.com/content/view/65/28/

Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 8:18 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
How far along are you? Launch date?
Right now CoolChange is upside down and I am priming and long boarding the bottom and sides upto the rubrail. I am upto 4 priming/fairing sessions using a long board. The priming/sanding should be done in a couple of weeks ready for the final top coat.

The weather here is getting warm and my work sessions are starting to be limited to a couple of hours 4 days a week.

Since my evening sessions are out of the question now. I have decided it is time to start the boom and mast construction. I will do the boom construction in the apartment. I will have a nicely controlled 75 degree work area to apply the CF and FG sleeves to the mandrel.

Items to complete for splash.

Topcoat bottom,
Prime/Topcoat cockpit, cabin and cabin top.
Build rudder/tiller
Build CB, install ballast
Build Boom, mast
Install Lexan windows
Build Companyway Hatch
Acquire standing and running rigging.
Rebuild 2nd hand trailer. Paint/bearings tires.

As for launch date. Last year at this time I thought I would be done by now. :(

So my current time estimate is based upon tasks left.

I will be launching ----------------------------------

When all the above tasks are done.. :) :)

Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:19 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Time for another update.
I have 4 projects on the go right now with one completed.

The completed project was my tow vehicle. I went out and bought a new F-150, 5.6 V8 with lots of towing capacity. This should handle the AD16 and my next boat which will be in the high 20's range. (V26, VG28?).

I also bought a used trailer which I am starting to refurbish giving it a nice new paint job, new bearings, wiring. Tear down has not been started yet.

I am also in construction stage building the boom from a CF kit from bateau. I am going to vacuum bag the boom and mast to ensure a nice resin to glass ratio. I actually have two poor mans vacuum bagging systems. The first system is a Rival Seal a Meal vacuum using 12' lengths of 8" vacuum bags that you can buy on a roll. The Rival works very well and gave a good vacuum on the 10' ft boom. All for 39.00. The 20' roll of bagging material was 9.00. I don't know how many HGs it is pulling because I don't have a gauge setup to monitor the bag vacuum.

The second system I am building is made from an old refrigerator compressor. I am still waiting for a vacuum switch, but the compressor will pull 25HGs, more than adequate and will be used to finish building the boom and for the mast when it gets under construction.

The boat itself is still upside down in the garage with the hull primed. I have been priming, sanding, filling low spots with quikfair and more priming and sanding. I have about 6 coats of primer sprayed on the bottom. It still needs some more work and probably won't get done now until September when the weather starts to cool down.

Hopefully by the end of the year I will be able to launch her. :)

I am trying to stay away from Rick's and ks8's build time records. Right now I am at a 1 1/2 years build time.

Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:54 pm
by Evan_Gatehouse
- Don't pull more than 12-15" Hg or you'll end up with a resin starved laminate
- have a resin trap to catch excess resin sucked out of the laminate

apologies if you already know all this

Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:02 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Evan_Gatehouse wrote:- Don't pull more than 12-15" Hg or you'll end up with a resin starved laminate
- have a resin trap to catch excess resin sucked out of the laminate

apologies if you already know all this
No I did not know this. I am surprised you only need 12-15 Hg.
I am just starting to get into vacuum bagging and any tidbits are greatly appreciated. Thanks Evan.

Just Right progress

Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:00 pm
by Justin Pipkorn
I finished the wood repairs. I patched the paint in the damaged areas. I decided not to repaint the entire boat. I am just finishing up the inside painting.

I have all the parts to rebuild the mast. I expect to start that next week.

The sail is scheduled to arrive toward the end of July.

No Cruiser Challenge this year. I hope to do a few more fix up items and then some on the water checkout in August. We hope to go up North in
Sept.

It would have taken much longer to get the boat back to the quality of the original construction. But, the hull repair is very solid. It's just a boat now. And of course, the boat builder is 6 years older.

I read your progress report. I gather that you are enjoying the process rather than pushing for completion.

Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:46 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
It's just a boat now. And of course, the boat builder is 6 years older.
It is still JustRight a legend. :) :)
I read your progress report. I gather that you are enjoying the process rather than pushing for completion.
Yes and No. I am tired of all the sanding of the hull in the heat and I am waiting to get that behind me. I am really anxious to get her launched, but not so impatience that I am going to end up with a workboat finish. I have to at least give the build 100% of my abilities or I will not be happy. If it looks like a workboat I will still be happy as I gave it my all. I by no means am judging anyone elses choice for finish, it is just a personal preference for my boat.

Working on the boom and the mast is a very welcomed change to all that sanding. All my free time is still being put to acquiring knowledge about sailing and finishing "Cool Change". It has been 1 1/2 years so far and will be closer to 2 years when she is ready to see the water. Even after I launch there will be things I will want to do to have some creature comforts. Storage, electrical, etc.

I should have lots of sailing time in before the SCA Challenge next year.
This way I should be able to at least give an honourable showing during the race and do Jacques design justice.

2006 Cruiser Challenge

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:59 pm
by Justin Pipkorn
This year the CC is apparently going to be just a Messabout. I really liked the "rally" type racing which allows a opportunity to compare performance of the small boats and allow skippers to test or build skills. The announcement implies that next year the race format will return just in time for your entry.

I will be interested to see how the carbon fiber spars work out.

Re: 2006 Cruiser Challenge

Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:20 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Justin Pipkorn wrote: I will be interested to see how the carbon fiber spars work out.
I think I have all my issues worked out now for the spars. Where to get CF tape and delrin bushings. I have sourced both and I am waiting on delivery in the next couple of days.

The boom will have the following:

A custom CF composite gooseneck(non-sliding). The gooseneck will have attachment points for the tack and the boom. The boom will be able to swing freely in both directions, up and down and side to side.

Attachment points for a boom vang(or boom kicker) and the main sheet.
These will be made with a delrin bushing that is CF taped to the boom.

A track and sheeve for an outhaul. The outhaul will consist of a track made from a 5/8 ID diameter delrin tube which is cut in half and FGed to the boom. A small slot will be cut in the track to allow the slider to slide back and forth along the boom. I am using the same technique that will be used for the sail track on the mast. Except for the mast the delrin tube is not cut in half before it is attached to the mast.

I will make a CF slider that will slide within the track and the slider will have an attachment point for the clew with a D shackle and an attachment point for the line that will tighten the outhaul. The line will be attached to the end of the boom and go through a small block on the slider back to the sheeve at the end of the boom. The sheeve will be 2" in dia. so the line will exit at the bottom of the boom and go forward to a cleat and a block.
This should allow me to tighten or loosen the line no matter where the boom is positioned. This setup will give me a simple 2:1 purchase, which should be sufficient.

Lots of CF work

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:50 pm
by Justin Pipkorn
I will be interested to see your CF work close up.

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:36 am
by ArizonaBuilder
okay, I have finished the basic construction of the CF boom. The boom is constructed of a layer of FG, followed by a layer of CF and two layers of FG.
The total weight of the boom is 5 lbs. The weight of an aluminum extruded boom, is 1/2 lb per foot. So the weight of the CF boom is equal to the an aluminum extruded boom, without the hardware.

Image

Here is the gooseneck assembly. The gooseneck is made from CF tape the individual arms of the gooseneck is 1/4 thick and the assembly was vacuum bagged. Hopefully I did a good job and the piece holds up to the forces encountered. The gooseneck will be attached to a swivel piece on the main mast which will allow it to rotate from side to side. The boom can swing about 30 degrees up and down.

Image

The outhaul is seen here. I placed a series of pads to give me a flat surface where I will attach the hardware for the outhaul. The outhaul will have a simply 2:1 purchase.

Image

The profile of the outhaul track.

Image

Here you can see the CF outhaul slider. The clew of the sail will be attached to the slider with a D shackle. The other end of the slider will have a swivel block for the outhaul line.

Image

This weekend I will post cure the boom and hopefully the hardware for the outhaul will be delivered. After that I will drill the holes for the hardware and coat the holes with a woodflour mix, followed by the first coat of primer.

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:44 am
by Laszlo
Terry,

Nice work on the CF. I'll be giving my mast the final sanding and finish in the next week or 2, so it was fun to see yours for comparison. Mine's for the V12, so it's much simpler -no fittings, just lash everything to the mast. My only addition to the basic mast structure will be some non-skid on the areas where the lashings will be. I also have only a single layer of FG on the outside. Because of all this mine gets to remain substantially lighter than wood or aluminum - something between 1/4 to 1/3 lb per foot.

One question for you - what do you mean by post curing it? Just putting it out in the Arizona sun for a weekend, or something more formal?

Looking good,

Laszlo

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:38 am
by ArizonaBuilder
Laszlo,

Thank you for the compliment.
One question for you - what do you mean by post curing it? Just putting it out in the Arizona sun for a weekend, or something more formal?
I know you already know the theory, however others may not.

Post curing is the process of slowing raising the temperature of the epoxy to a certain temperature and holding it there for a period of time. This causes a more complete cure process to occur giving the epoxy better strength characteristics. System 3 recommends that the SilverTip epoxy is slowly brought up to 140 degrees and held there for 2 hours.

I am going to put the boom outside in the sun, covered with a black plastic drapped over the boom to form a tent like structure. I will insert a thermonmeter through the plastic to monitor the temp. I am hoping in the arizona sun, I will get my goal temperature of 140 degrees. If the temperature reached is a little bit lower I wil simply leave it out longer.

If I don't get a good temperature I will have to setup some type of carboard oven and feed some hot air into it. Just a thought right now.

For any small part, I am using my toaster oven on the lowest setting, which gives me a temp around 100 degrees. I adjust the temp upwards in small increaments over the next hour until I reach 140, where the part sits for 2 hours.

With post curing the SilverTip epoxy, I now have the option of painting any parts the same color as my bottom paint. Matching accessories.
The bottom of CoolChange will be painted, the dark blue from System 3.
If you don't post cure, System 3 says you can't go any darker than a tan color.

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:43 am
by Laszlo
Terry,

That's interesting. It sound sas if the post-cure also increases the usable temperature range, as well as the stucural strength. I wonder of it also applies to Marinepoxy? If so, I might be able to get away without painting my mast. Joel, you there?

It's also getting pretty funny just how many kitchen tools are being used for boatbuilding. Now the toaster oven comes into play, too. I wonder if anyone's used a blender for mixing epoxy & woodflour? :-)

Have fun & I'll be looking for your next set of pictures.

Laszlo

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:23 am
by tech_support
Laszlo wrote:I wonder of it also applies to Marinepoxy? If so, I might be able to get away without painting my mast. Joel, you there?
Only a little, not enough to make a difference. Silver Tip (post cured or not) is stiffer than Marinepoxy - thats why we ship it with the Carbon Fiber mast/pole kits - you need it.

Painting does a couple things for you. The first is to filter out the UV which damages epoxy over time. The second is painting with a light color will the laminate from getting too hot.

If you were using a post cured epoxy, you could paint with a dark color

Joel

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:50 pm
by Laszlo
OK, I was looking to possibly use a varnish finish on my mast - UV protection but "natural" CF color. Guess not.

BTW, my mast kit came with resin formerly known as E-poxy. Presumably for my application (V12 mast) I don't actually need Silvertip, right?

Laszlo

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:07 pm
by tech_support
For a small spar, I doubt you could tell the difference in resins. I did notice with the 19' push pole, but it also was only 1.5" diameter (not tapered). I’m sure we had SilverTip when your mast kit was shipped.

Black CF would get very hot, I would paint it a light color even if I used Silvertip. The next step up in epoxies are 2 stage cured resins that require pretty accurate post cures - they have very high heat deflection temperatures. System THREE HAS “Phase Twoâ€

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:26 pm
by Laszlo
It was e-poxy. I've got pictures of the bottles on my website and the labels say e-poxy. I'll definitely paint it a light color and leave the high ticket resins for the commercial builders.

Laszlo

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:16 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
During the post cure, I put the boom directly in the sun, I didn't need to create the tent and I was registering 140 degrees with a thermometer place in the outhaul track.

The boom got very hot and I was only able to hold it for 2 secs at a time. I rotated the boom ever 20 mins and it was in the sun for 4 hours.

I was going to paint some of the boom and accessories a dark blue, but have now decided against it. I will paint everything white with some accent stripes dark blue.

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:28 am
by Laszlo
Terry,

I wasn't kidding when I asked if you were just going to put it out in the sun. That's pretty impressive numbers, though - more than I thought you'd get.

Looking forward to your next set of pictures,

Laszlo

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:39 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Well the boom is finally complete.

Here you see the boom with the sail attached to the gooseneck and the outhaul mechanism.

Image

Here you will see my mockup mast with the gooseneck installed and the attachment point for a boom vang or kicker or both.

Image

Here is a side view of the outhaul and its associated hardware.

Image

And here is a top view of the outhaul.
Image

I must say the experience of building the mast was very enjoyable and everything worked out as planned, except for the quality of the stencil images at the outhaul and gooseneck(boat name and outhaul gauge).
The stencils I made for these items worked out fantastic and the quality was excellent, however, I could not stop the paint from bleeding under the stencil. I will be redoing the name and outhaul gauge using blue tape, so I won't get the bleeding. This will require the cutting out of the name image
on the blue tape once the tape is laid down on the boom. The quality will be 10 times better than the bleeded images.

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:31 pm
by ks8
Looks good!

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:04 am
by jacquesmm
I'm watching this thread and should have said it earlier: you are doing a great job. Beautiful carbon fiber work.

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:18 am
by ArizonaBuilder
jacquesmm wrote:I'm watching this thread and should have said it earlier: you are doing a great job. Beautiful carbon fiber work.
Thanks Jacques,

The carbon fiber was actually really nice to work with and I am extremely happy with the outcome so far. I can't wait to get started on the mast, but it will have to wait now that the weather is getting cooler. Time to go back to building the boat.

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:27 pm
by PortageRat
Is that a jug of homemade wine on your stove?

I can't wait to see the finished product in the water and under sail!

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:05 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
PortageRat wrote:Is that a jug of homemade wine on your stove?

I can't wait to see the finished product in the water and under sail!
:lol: :lol: No time for wine making, too busy trying to get a boat built.. :)

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:45 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
The boom is finally finished. My first attempt at using a stencil for the boat name and outhaul scale was a failure with not being able to stop the bleeding of the paint under the stencil. So I put down blue tape on the boom and printed out the graphics on to some paper. The paper was taped to boom and I cut out the letters and graphics using an exacto knife. The results are not perfect but I did eliminate the bleeding and the results are acceptable for my skill level.

Image

Image

For protecting the boom from scratches, I sewed up a padded bag.

Image

Now that the weather is starting to cool down, I am finally back into the garage this weekend sanding primer. That stuff is really tough to sand after sitting in a hot garage for 3 months.

So I bought myself a new best friend as quoted by BABA, a half sheet sander. I am tired of long boarding primer and decided it was time to have some help from a power tool. The sander really helped with sanding some quikfair I put down this morning to fair out the seam on the bow.

Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:27 pm
by gk108
Looks like you recalibrated the outhaul gauge, too. Cool Change has about the coolest boom I've seen. 8)

Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:32 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
gk108 wrote:Looks like you recalibrated the outhaul gauge, too. Cool Change has about the coolest boom I've seen. 8)
Thanks.

That is the beauty of a CF boom, you can pretty it up. :) :)

The sail happenned to fall in the middle of the outhaul track, so I thought I would change the scale to have a zero center point with the numbers increasing outward with a minus/plus indicator for tightening or loosening the sail.

Now I have to determine when it is appropriate to loosen or tighten the sail based upon different wind conditions and points of sail.

Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:34 am
by Knottybuoyz
The boom is finally finished. My first attempt at using a stencil for the boat name and outhaul scale was a failure with not being able to stop the bleeding of the paint under the stencil.
Hi Terry

Was that the computer printed stencil I think was mentioned before? The one that you develop int he sunlight? I thought it migh bleed through on any surface that wasn't perfectly flat. Also didn't think that any spray adhesive would help either and would probably clog the part you want the paint to go through. I still might give it a try, can't get the decals for our old boat anymore.

How's your boat performing? I assume you've had some time in her now.

Rick

Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:24 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Was that the computer printed stencil I think was mentioned before? The one that you develop int he sunlight? I thought it migh bleed through on any surface that wasn't perfectly flat. Also didn't think that any spray adhesive would help either and would probably clog the part you want the paint to go through. I still might give it a try, can't get the decals for our old boat anymore.

How's your boat performing? I assume you've had some time in her now.

Rick
That was the computer generatered stencil. The stencil came out looking great. I just was not able to stop the bleeding. It may be different on a flat surface or a different paint.

The boat has not been launched yet. It is still upside down in the garage waiting for a topcoat.

After that my todo list is:

finish CB, rudder.
Fair, paint inside cabin, topside cabin and cockpit.
Build companionway hatch and drop boards.
Get lexan for windows and install.
Build mast,
Rig hardware.
Purchase trailer and motor.
Launch.

It is getting closer, but I still have a fair amount of work to complete.

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:05 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Well it has been a while since my last post. Since then I completed the bottom paint and purchased the trailer.

After two years stuck away in the garage CoolChange was moved to its new location so I would have room in the garage to build the mast, centerboard and rudder.

Image


CoolChange is still a little shy and only wanted to show a little bit of her paint job, note the staircase strips on the rear quarter.

After the mast and CB are built she will be moved back to the garage where she will get windows and the rest of her painted.

Launch day is slowly getting closer. :)

Image

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:47 pm
by ks8
Sure, go ahead tease. :lol:

Progress report

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:06 pm
by Justin Pipkorn
Terry,

I see you have made lots of progress since I last checked. The boat looks great.

Will you be ready for the Cruiser Challenge in Monterey in July? Or Mead Madness at the end of April?

Edith and I are thinking about a trip to Tucson soon. I hope we can stop by and see your boat.

Re: Progress report

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:00 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Terry,

I see you have made lots of progress since I last checked. The boat looks great.

Will you be ready for the Cruiser Challenge in Monterey in July? Or Mead Madness at the end of April?

Edith and I are thinking about a trip to Tucson soon. I hope we can stop by and see your boat.
Thanks Justin, It is slowly coming along. Right the boat is in storage so I could free up the garage to build the mast and CB. It will be another month before she comes home again.

I am trying to make it for the Monterey Challenge, I just hope the weather cooperates, I only have 2 more months of build time before the weather becomes too hot to work on it.

You both are welcome to stop by any time. I will have CoolChange back home by May 1.

Roving Bateau boat inspector coming thru Phoenix

Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 1:39 pm
by Justin Pipkorn
Terry,

Edith and I are planning to drive thru your area May 10 and again the following Sunday or Monday. Please email me.

justright20@verizon.net

Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:17 pm
by SP
Hi Terry,

Would it be possible to post some pictures in your builders gallery of inside the cabin with a person in it to get a better perspective of the space?

Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:57 pm
by ks8
Yes, and tell us how tall that person is... :)

Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 12:39 am
by ArizonaBuilder
I just returned from a trip to Nashville, I will see about getting some pics tomorrow.

Justin(JustRight) stopped by a couple of weeks ago and commented that the cockpit had lots of room, more than JustRights cockpit.

Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 1:25 am
by SP
I am surprised there is any room left for the cockpit at all. Every time I see pics of the VG20 cabin and then realize that it is basically an 18' sailboat I am amazed.

Can't wait to hear Justin's comments on the AD16 and see pics of your sailboat when it is complete. Your boom looks awesome.

Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 11:54 am
by PortageRat
We would like to see lots of new pictures, inside and out! Thanks!

Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 9:02 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Hi Terry,

Would it be possible to post some pictures in your builders gallery of inside the cabin with a person in it to get a better perspective of the space?
Image

Okay, here is a pic of me sitting in the cabin. You should see my look when I am in a bad mood. I am just under 6' and when sitting on the floor the distance from the floor to the top of my head is 40". So if I sit as straight as possible my head just touches the cabin roof. When sitting normally (slight slouch) there is an inch or two of clearance. As for floor area, there is ample room for 4 people to sit or for 2 adults sleep.

I also tried leaning against the side to see if or how the upper cabin wall would affect the comfort of the sitter. I found the upper portion of the cabin due to the slope inward just touched the back of my head. But by placing a small 3" pad behind my back just below the window kept the back and head away from the wall and was very comfortable.

Over all the inside of the cabin has lots of room for 2 adults to spend weekends on the lake with lots of room for sleeping or getting out of the bad weather.

A bimini top with detachable netting sides will also allow sleeping outside under the stars. I am looking forward to many weekends at the lake enjoying life. Maybe the next pic you see of me I might be smiling. :)

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:34 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Today, I took Cool Change down to my local Fish and Game office, where they inspected the boat for 5 mins. 30 mins later and 22.00 dollars, I was on my way home with my Hull Id and registration number.

It couldn't have been any easier, I just needed to show them my driver's license and the boat, fill out a form and give them some money.

Now to get her done so I can get out on the lake. :) :)

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:13 pm
by AD16 The Opportunist
:D Another step ahead!!! I'm happy for you, Terry! I'm still searching a source for the damn' delrin pipe.... No answer from US. Still searching in Europe, but the only one I've found 'til now is in Austria ( 900 km far from here )..... I think I must look for an alternative solution...
Thanks again for your help :)




Carlo

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:25 pm
by Knottybuoyz
AD16 The Opportunist wrote:I'm still searching a source for the damn' delrin pipe....
What size do you need Carlo? I got some form an e-bay supplier near here. Maybe I can help.

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:34 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
I don't know what it would take to ship something from here to you.

Maybe you can buy the pipe from McMasters-carr have it shipped to an address in the US. Once that third party has the tubing, they send it to you.

Anyone familiar with shipping stuff to germany, would it just be sent via UPS.

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:56 pm
by AD16 The Opportunist
At this point, the shipping cost is my least problem, what I'm searchin' for is 4 pieces 5' long delrin 1/2" internal dia. and 3/4" or 1" external...
By McMasters-carr is about 19 and something every piece...
The only problem is about payment, I don't know how works a credit card transition beetween privates (never made before), I have a Paypal account too and a bank transfer is not a problem.....
BTW Is very fine to know how many friendly people plays works an follows this forum!!! :D
If somebody could help me, I'm already on my knees! But let's find a solution for the payment in advance!

Carlo

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:03 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
I have paypal too. I would need your shipping location to get
a quote from DHL or UPS and to find out about customs.

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:11 pm
by AD16 The Opportunist
What size do you need Carlo? I got some form an e-bay supplier near here. Maybe I can help.

Thanks Rick, I need 4 pieces 5'long delrin tube 1/2" internal dia. and 3/4" external... did your e-bay supplier send the stuff to Europe too? That would be the best solution , but I did a search by e-bay UK, US, DE, and some more and no delrin tube, by e-bay shops too...

Carlo

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:14 pm
by AD16 The Opportunist
I have paypal too. I would need your shipping location to get
a quote from DHL or UPS and to find out about customs.[/quote]


Thanks Terry!! Very fine from you!! I'll send you a mail in few minutes!

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:21 am
by ArizonaBuilder
Opportunist,

Parts ordered and should arrive in a few days. Shipping to Germany is about 80.00 dollars US. I will get an exact cost when I take the parcel down to the local DHL terminal.

The money was received in my Paypal account.

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:45 pm
by AD16 The Opportunist
ArizonaBuilder wrote:Opportunist,

Parts ordered and should arrive in a few days. Shipping to Germany is about 80.00 dollars US. I will get an exact cost when I take the parcel down to the local DHL terminal.

The money was received in my Paypal account.

Thanks again, Terry!!! Have a great weekend :D !!!
A great weekend to all boatbuilders too, of course :wink:

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:50 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
AD16 The Opportunist wrote:
ArizonaBuilder wrote:Opportunist,

Parts ordered and should arrive in a few days. Shipping to Germany is about 80.00 dollars US. I will get an exact cost when I take the parcel down to the local DHL terminal.

The money was received in my Paypal account.

Thanks again, Terry!!! Have a great weekend :D !!!
A great weekend to all boatbuilders too, of course :wink:
The parts shipped today and you should have them in 2 days.
Check your email.. :) :)

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:15 pm
by AD16 The Opportunist
Thanks Terry!!! I received the tubes yesterday at 10.00 am CET, surprise: no custom charges... :D
I was for a few days not active, 'cause of a technical black-out....
No internet connection 'til today... :(

Thanks again and have a great weekend!!!

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:37 pm
by Laszlo
ArizonaBuilder wrote:Well it has been a while since my last post. Since then I completed the bottom paint and purchased the trailer.

After two years stuck away in the garage CoolChange was moved to its new location so I would have room in the garage to build the mast, centerboard and rudder.

Image


CoolChange is still a little shy and only wanted to show a little bit of her paint job, note the staircase strips on the rear quarter.

After the mast and CB are built she will be moved back to the garage where she will get windows and the rest of her painted.

Launch day is slowly getting closer. :)

Image
Terry,

How high off the ground is the top of the boat, and what's the length from the tip of the tongue to the furthest point aft? For that matter, what size are your wheels?

Sorry for the inquisition, but I'm trying to determine the necessary opening height and depth of the space in the garage.

Laszlo

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:32 am
by ArizonaBuilder
Lazlo, Sorry for the delay on posting a reply. I haven't been checking this site in a long time.

My garage opening is 8' 8" wide 6' 10" high. The height of the boat on the trailer is 6' 3". The total length of boat and trailer is 21'. I have an extra long garage. The shorelandr trailer also comes in shorter tongue lengths.

The trailer has 12" wheels.

The boat extends 28" from the back end of the trailer, so an AD14 would cut 2' off the total length. You could also get the shorter tongue length option for the trailer.

Don't forget to shop around. I was quoted prices between 800.00 and 1600.00 for the same brand new trailer.

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:50 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Time for an update. Cool Change is starting to sport some new hardware, so that means we are getting close to launch time. Before launch day arrives I need to paint the cockpit, cut the mast's sail track slot, and build the mast step. Followed by setting up the standing rigging for the mast.
The list is getting shorter and I am just finishing what is required to launch. After launch day I will concentrate on finishing the inside of the cabin and the hatch boards and cover and creating creature comforts.

Here are some of the latest pics.

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I put some non-skid on the top of the deck, but I am not sure how much walking I am going to be doing up there. At least it looks nice.

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Visibility should be good from inside the cabin. :)

Image

Here is a pic showing the yet to be completed hatch cover.

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:03 pm
by gk108
Looks Great :!:

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:22 pm
by BoH
Gorgeous!

I have the bug, and you aren't helping. Or maybe you are. I can't wait to show those pics to the wife.

Bo

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:32 am
by Laszlo
Terry,

Thanks for the information, it was just what I needed. My garage door height is 6'6", so your setup would just make it. Don't worry about the delay, I was just finalizing details before taking the plunge. The actual construction won't start until next year.

Cool Change is looking real good. That non-skid pattern works very well, visually. Finishing the interior after the launch is a good idea. You need to get out in it and see how you use it, where you need the hooks, etc., before you actually take all the trouble to paint the inside.

Welcome back & keep posting those pictures,

Laszlo

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:03 am
by topwater
Wow the boat looks great. Cant wait to see sum pic's
outside so we can see the full profile.
Youre wokmanship on the boat looks awsome :!:

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:13 am
by jacquesmm
Amazing, much better job than many professionals, fantastic looking boat.

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:44 am
by ArizonaBuilder
Thank you for the compliments. It is I who should be complimenting this forum and the guys who contribute so much info to this site and it all starts with great designs. :)

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:18 am
by ks8
Nice! What did you use for the nonskid? :)

Isn't there some sort of rule that you only have so much time to get her in the water once the regi decal is affixed to the hull? Because of this uncertainty, I haven't put my decal on yet, but isn't your clock ticking now? September? You might have a summons waiting for you already! :P

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:30 am
by chrisobee
spectacular. Very professional looking. I think you can really see in the details such as SPI pole hole how much care and effort you have put into that boat.

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:17 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
ks8 wrote:Nice! What did you use for the nonskid? :)

Isn't there some sort of rule that you only have so much time to get her in the water once the regi decal is affixed to the hull? Because of this uncertainty, I haven't put my decal on yet, but isn't your clock ticking now? September? You might have a summons waiting for you already! :P
I used the system 3 non-skid additive that is sold here. I used about a 15%-20% ratio of additive to paint. I applied 2 coats and was really impressed with the finish.

09 -09 :) no summons yet. It is the second sticker I have put on. The first one expired. :)

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:19 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
chrisobee wrote:spectacular. Very professional looking. I think you can really see in the details such as SPI pole hole how much care and effort you have put into that boat.
Thanks Crisobee.

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:56 pm
by BoH
What are the colors used? I'm having trouble imagining the combinations from the color chart.

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:48 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
BoH wrote:What are the colors used? I'm having trouble imagining the combinations from the color chart.
I used Orca White for the main body. The water line and rudder,CB was done with Lopez Blue. The accents are done with Bainbridge White, which is a light grey color.

If you take a good look at the first pic showing the side view you can notice a slight shade difference between the hull and the cabin top even though they are both painted using Orca White.

Why?

Because the hull was sanded with 220 grit sandpaper to remove the paint runs from a piss poor spray job. I have noticed that all three colors turn a shade lighter if you sand them after application. This is why the hull appears to be a brighter white with no shine.

I might paint the rub rail with the Bainbridge to give a clean separation between the 2 shades, but for now I just want to get launched. Or I may just repaint the hull using the tip and roll method, which I did for the top.

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:23 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Some new pics from different angles. Just ignore the layer of dust on the hull and the primed only cockpit. :)

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Image

Image

Image

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:14 pm
by ks8
OK... so which one is the waterline? :P

I like it. :)

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:34 am
by Larry B
Terry,
It looks fantastic. It really looked good when I came and seen it. You really do great work. I'll have to come by and take another look at it. I'm still building my FL14 and it's going slow, but to look at your boat gives me more motivation.
Larry B

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:38 am
by Laszlo
Terry,

Looks great. You realize, don't you, that if you hadn't mentioned the dust & the primer-only cockpit that nobody would have noticed? Even so, I only spotted one spot that looked dusty.

Looks like launch day's getting real close,

Laszlo

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:44 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Ks8, It depends how much beer I have onboard. :)

Larry, Thanks, You are welcome anytime. just give a shout.
It is nice to hear you have committed to building one of Jacques designs. You will enjoy the finished result. Launch day is close. I was trying for this upcoming weekend. But it won't happen as I am topcoating the cockpit now. It will need some time to harden. I see 2 weeks from now for the christening.

Laszlo, You are right. just look at the windows they are suppose to be black, not greyish. I haven't forgot about the picks of the mast. I am waiting to get all the hardware on, so I can show the completed mast.

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:42 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Well the day finally arrived. :) Cool Change's Maiden Voyage.

Today we spent about 2 hours at Lake Pleasant Arizona sailing in very light winds. 2-3 mph. It was a great day with the sun shining and the temps hovering around 68.

Here are some pics from todays outing.

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Cool Change waiting patiently for my return from parking the truck.


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Today's playground Lake Pleasant.

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Great visibility from the helm.

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You can tell how much wind there was today by how much the main sheet is straining almost at its breaking point. :)

Right now I can't give an opinion about how well she sails, since 2-3 mph winds doesn't give much action at the helm.

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:22 pm
by gk108
Beautiful! Congratulations. 8)

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:24 pm
by TimF
"Cool" job - well done!

I am sure "Cool Change" will get many admirers and questions, let us know how she performs in more wind

Nice to see that some parts of the country have great weather at this time of year, I am still shovelling snow!

Tim F

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:30 pm
by BoH
Congratulations! This is what it is all about.

Bo

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:01 am
by ks8
Excellent! Those CF spars look very cool. 8)

But I thought you were in Singapore? 8O

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:56 am
by ArizonaBuilder
Thanks for all the compliments, it has been a long journey, which is not over yet. I have a bunch of little things to complete. like priming and painting the hatch cover and finishing off the inside.

KS8, I flew home for new years. I will be back in Singapore on the 17th. :)
Aren't you suppose to be launching before 2009 rolls around? Get that boat wet. It only took me 3 years 11 months to get to this point, but I think you are pushing close to 5 or more.

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:37 am
by ks8
I am consequently inspired. More 4200 tomorrow. Gotta work too. :)

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:24 am
by Laszlo
Attaboy, Terry. Looks real good. I had wondered where folks in Arizona sailed.

Laszlo

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:06 am
by TomW
She looks great Terry and beautiful water and scenery to go with her too. Can't beat that. The wind will be there sooner or later, :lol: when you least expect it even if the tell tales weren't active today.

Tom

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:57 am
by Dimitris
Beautiful boat.

It's good that you checked how everything works in light winds before trying something harder. Despite the very light winds your main sets very well.

Happy new year.

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:44 am
by topwater
Nice lake , the boat looks awsome.
you have to give us some action pic's when you have more
wind.

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:10 am
by Cracker Larry
Beautiful Terry 8) Rigging and that sail looks first class, did you make the sail?

Have you considered a topping lift for the boom, to keep it out of the cockpit when not sailing?

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:29 am
by ArizonaBuilder
Cracker Larry wrote:Beautiful Terry 8) Rigging and that sail looks first class, did you make the sail?

Have you considered a topping lift for the boom, to keep it out of the cockpit when not sailing?
Thanks Larry. The sail is a kit from sailrite. I highly recommend them for your sails, if you want to build your own. You don't need a fancy machine. I pickup one up at target for 100.00. Just make sure the machine can do several layers of denim. Total cost for buying everything to make the sail, sewing machine included, I still saved a couple of hundred dollars.

For the topping lift, I was going to build or buy a boom kicker. I have also used the main halyard. Maybe, I should install the spinnaker halyard and use it as a topping lift. Thanks for the suggestion.

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:35 am
by ArizonaBuilder
Dimitris wrote:Beautiful boat.

It's good that you checked how everything works in light winds before trying something harder.
I actually went to the lake on Friday for the maiden voyage. After rigging and getting down to the ramp, I decided the maiden voyage would be another day. It was the first time I had seen white caps covering the lake.
With not knowing the boat and being new to the land of sailing I decided that it was better to sail another day when the winds were not so strong.

Even in the light winds of Monday, I did notice the leeward shrouds going slack. So I have some rig adjustments before venturing out in stronger winds. :)

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:10 pm
by TimF
Terry,

Don't overtighten the shrouds. They are there to support the mast and don't have to be under huge tension, "Cool Change" is not a racing machine where you often use overthrow shroud levers to pretension the rig snd put a certain amount of static bend in to the mast.
Make sure that that both sides are equally tight and don't put a bend into the mast by overtightening one side, look at the mast from the bow or stern to make sure it is vertical! - it easy to put a bend into a mast that you don't want!
The windward shroud will be under tension when tacking into the wind and it is not unusual for the leeward one to flap around, the trick is to find the happy medium - have fun.

TimF

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:56 pm
by gk108
Yep. You may have to work the constructional stretch out of the new wire, but after that settles down, be cautious about overtightening the shrouds. With your keel stepped mast, you could drive it through the bottom of the boat. :help:

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:04 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
TimF wrote:Terry,

Don't overtighten the shrouds. They are there to support the mast and don't have to be under huge tension, "Cool Change" is not a racing machine where you often use overthrow shroud levers to pretension the rig snd put a certain amount of static bend in to the mast.
Make sure that that both sides are equally tight and don't put a bend into the mast by overtightening one side, look at the mast from the bow or stern to make sure it is vertical! - it easy to put a bend into a mast that you don't want!
The windward shroud will be under tension when tacking into the wind and it is not unusual for the leeward one to flap around, the trick is to find the happy medium - have fun.

TimF
Thanks for the heads up. I was going to slowly tighten them until I didn't see slack on the leeward side. So now the question is "how tight or how loose" ?

If all 3 shrouds are hand tightened until the slack is removed. How many additional turns should I do on the turn buckles to get the preferred tension. Would I add 1 more complete turn to all 3 or maybe 2,3,4,5 etc.

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:52 pm
by TimF
Terry,

I think this will take a little trial and error, if I recall correctly you have made a CF mast ? - I have never played with a CF mast, only Al or wood, so for starters I would tighten all shrouds hand tight plus another 1/2 turn - assuming you are using rigging screws (turnbuckles) - you don't need them to be overtight, some deflection is OK - maybe Evan or Jacques can chime in here?

TimF

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:26 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Time for a sailing update. To date I have been out on the water 5 times. The winds have been very light so it is difficult to tell how she handles.

One of the old salts at the lake said I needed to go out in the morning to catch the winds as they die down around lunch time. So today I ventured out at 7:00 and was on the water by 9:00. While walking back to the boat after getting her settled in at the dock I finally had a chance to scan the lake to see who was sailing today. Not a single boat on the lake and the winds were kicking up some white caps on the waves. I could tell this would be a fun day on the water.

I can only guess that the winds were around 10 knots as I did not see the small craft light flashing. As I exited the bay into the main part of the lake the winds picked up and Cool Change's sail snapped into place and my speed increased crashing through the waves. It was like being on a roller coaster. A couple of times a few huge rollers(2' foot wave) came by ( no laughing you old salts) and Cool Change rode them nicely slamming her nose in the next wave causing water to come over her nose. It was tense for a land lubber. But after a couple of hours of riding up down waves and almost dipping the rail a few times, 6 inches more and it would have. :)
I was getting use to the motion and started to feel very comfortable in my new environment. The boat appeared to have just a little weather helm as she would slowly point into the wind if I let go of the tiller. So this is good as I have heard.

I did find that when exiting a tack the boat has a tendency to continue turning until the wind creates enough forward motion to let the rudder stop the rotation. I thought this might be caused by too much lee helm but after today I think it is just my technique and I may need to improve my tacking skills. I do not remember this situation during sailing school with a Catalina 16 and I really noticed this over rotation on a tack in light winds.

Overall, I was impressed with how the boat handled the weather and chop and I am feeling more confident with the boat's and my ability.
I do believe this was probably the best choice of boat to hone my sailing skills.

Today was a day of lessons learned. Gratefully not the hard way.

Lesson1: If you have a transon mounted trolling motor, it will gradually work its way upward to fall in the lake. No mine did not fall in the lake but I did notice it creeping up and had to loosen the nuts to get it back down. I think I need a little bracket on the inside of the transon to stop the hold down bolts from sliding up.

Lesson2: After adjusting the turnbuckles to achieve a nice tension, that tension will disappear in heavy weather because the turnbuckle will turn themselves loose until they fall apart. No mine did not fail apart but I did notice that the amount of visible thread on the buckle was a lot more than I started out with and the shrouds looked very loose. So I now need a method to stop the turnbuckles from loosing besides duck tape.

Not a trip to the lake has gone without someone asking questions about the boat."What kind is it?" and commenting on her looks.. All positive. :)
One guy even asked, as he sailed by, if it was a "Bateau boat".

Next I need to get my electrical hooked up so I can run an inverter with my tablet pc and navigational software. I am curious as to what kind of speed I am achieving in the different sailing conditions.

Now I need some action shots of Cool Change.

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:48 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Updates to previous suggestions.

Mast Partner Filler
http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?t=18028

For the mast partner filler, I took Jacques suggestion and purchased 13 inches of the mast wedge product. $85.00 dollars later I decided that it wouldn't work because the space to be filled was too much for the rubber wedge and I wasn't sure how I will fill the space. So I took topwaters suggestion and bought a couple of hockey pucks. With my jig saw and 2 hockey pucks at 1.50 a piece I created 4 pieces and they work beautifully securing the mast in place. They are easy to put in and remove. So the hockey puck method is the winner here.

How tight is too tight for shrouds?
http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?t=18296
The adjustment method suggested by Cracker Larry works great and now if I can stop the turnbuckles from loosening themselves we will have a winner here.

Again thanks to everyone who made suggestions to my post.

Cheers.

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:11 pm
by D2Maine
nm

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:40 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
D2Maine wrote:use a pinch nut to stop the turnbuckles from loosening
There are 2 nuts, one top and one bottom. I guess finger tight doesn't cut the mustard. :) Next time out I will take the wrench to them.

Thanks.

Congratulations

Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:22 am
by Justin Pipkorn
Terry,

I finally found your forum with the pictures. Since I found my post to the forum early in the building, I guess I've been here before.

The boat looks great. The sail looks good. Seems to have a lot of draft which will give power in intermediate winds but could be a bit much in either very light of heavy winds. I gather from your comments, that you were not seriously over powered on that first big wind day.

Since I moved to Florida, I will miss stopping by to see the boat. We sailed in several Mead Madness get togethers. Sailing in Lake Mead was always interesting. Those desert winds can be fickle.

Well, congratulations on sticking to it for those 3 years and 11 months.

Justin

Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:28 am
by jacquesmm
If the blocking nuts don't do the job, run a steel wire through the turnbuckle in a figure 8 fashion.
From the top fork down through the turning part then down further through the lower fork then up again the opposite way.
Easier to do than to explain. :|

Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:46 am
by Cracker Larry
Most marine turnbuckles have holes drilled in the inside ends of the screws. This is for cotter pins or safety wire to lock them in position.

You could also install an additional jam nut above and below the existing nuts to lock them in place.

Re: Congratulations

Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:40 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Justin Pipkorn wrote:Terry,

I finally found your forum with the pictures. Since I found my post to the forum early in the building, I guess I've been here before.

The boat looks great. The sail looks good. Seems to have a lot of draft which will give power in intermediate winds but could be a bit much in either very light of heavy winds. I gather from your comments, that you were not seriously over powered on that first big wind day.

Since I moved to Florida, I will miss stopping by to see the boat. We sailed in several Mead Madness get togethers. Sailing in Lake Mead was always interesting. Those desert winds can be fickle.

Well, congratulations on sticking to it for those 3 years and 11 months.

Justin
Justin, I am glad you finally found my blog. Thanks for the comments.
There does seem to be a lot of draft forward. I am thinking about relaxing the battens a little I have them pretty tight in the slots. I am thinking about securing the battens in the plastic batten holder on the luff with a screw so I can relax the string at the leech, holding the batten in the slot which might reduce the draft a little. I believe a boom vang will help too.

I will have to check out the Mead madness sail for next year, it sounds like it would be lots of fun.

I don't believe I was over powered at all. The boat seemed to handle well. I had a few puffs of wind which caused the boat to heel a fair bit. But 5 seconds later she would come partially back up and I could feel the speed increasing. Since this was my first heavy wind day, I held the main sheet in my hand so I could de-power quickly which happen several times as I couldn't stop the line from slipping through my fingers even with a 4:1 purchase. After about an hour and getting tired from holding the sheet I started locking the sheet in the block and didn't have an issue. I just needed to get a feel for the boat and my capabilities.
The block on the boom has a ratchet setting which I might use the next time in heavy winds.

The CF mast and boom seemed to handle the wind well as neither broke even though I need to dial in my shrouds still.:) I did notice a slight bend in the boom from the pressure of the wind. Next time I might try to measure the amount of bend in the boom if I am not alone at the time.

I am on a new learning curve here trying to tune in the rigging and my sailing skills and I am enjoying every minute. :)

Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:42 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
jacquesmm wrote:If the blocking nuts don't do the job, run a steel wire through the turnbuckle in a figure 8 fashion.
From the top fork down through the turning part then down further through the lower fork then up again the opposite way.
Easier to do than to explain. :|
You described it very well. I have closed turnbuckles so I will run the wire from the top to the bottom through the hole in the turnbuckle body.

Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:17 pm
by rudar
After you run the wire through to lock off the turnbuckles, be sure to wrap lots of electricians tape over the wire. Otherwise one might hypothetically be cleating an anchor line down and have the line flip off the cleat just as one goes to jerk it tight, resulting in one's hand jerking forwards and the pointy bit of wire going in one side of one's thumb and out the other. Uh, not that anything like that has ever happened to me, or nuttin'.

Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:28 pm
by Cracker Larry
Yes, tape all safety wire, real good. That pointy nub is worse on sails than it is on thumbs :wink:
Uh, not that anything like that has ever happened to me, or nuttin'.
Me either :oops: :oops:

Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:50 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Cracker Larry wrote:Yes, tape all safety wire, real good. That pointy nub is worse on sails than it is on thumbs :wink:
Uh, not that anything like that has ever happened to me, or nuttin'.
Me either :oops: :oops:
thanks for the heads up. I think I will twist the wire together inside the bottom fork, so the nob is out of the way.

Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:22 pm
by rudar
Cracker Larry wrote:Yes, tape all safety wire, real good. That pointy nub is worse on sails than it is on thumbs :wink:
Well, dunno about better or worse, but thumbs heal, while sails don't :)

Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:14 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Time to update my last sailing update.

One sailing skill I haven't developed yet is to guess how hard the wind is blowing. I indicated that my guess was around 10 mph. Well tonight I spoke with an old salt from the sailing club who went on the lake as I was coming off. I asked him about the wind speeds we had on Monday.

He said the winds were "20-25" mph with gusts to 30 in the morning and 15-20 in the afternoon. Well that certainly explains a lot of the things that happened during my venture on the lake and it also explains why there wasn't a single other boat on the lake in the morning. Everyone else was hiding. :)

With that wind speed. I am so totally impressed with how the boat handled. Kudo's to Jacques fine design. Now I have no reservations at all to taking a little ocean tour over to Santa Catalina island next summer. Let the wind blow. :)

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:17 am
by ArizonaBuilder
Yesterday while out sailing in some good winds I had an equipment failure.
The outhaul slider broke where the D shackles ties the clew to the slider and I was stuck in the middle of the lake with a flapping sail.

Here is a pic of the outhaul mechanism.

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and how it was built

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Since the sail was flapping in the wind and the slider was broke I removed the connector from the other end of the slider and while my daughter kept the boat into the wind I attached the outhaul rope to the D shackle on the clew and was able to continue sailing for the rest of the day.

Now my question is should I repair the slider to control the clew or just continue to use the rope without the slider.

If I use the slider the clew of the sail if held directly on the boom which i see as a benefit for sails that slide in a boom sail track.

If I don't use the slider and only use the rope, the clew is held at a 45 angle to the boom end and the clew is 3 - 4 inches above the boom.
Since the foot of the sale is not attached to the boom not using the slider seems to be the better arrangement as when tightening the outhaul it tensions the foot and the leech.

I want to know from the sailors in the group, if I should repair the slider or continue using the outhaul without the slider.

I am wondering which method would give me better control of the AD16 sail.

Here is a pic of the slider in use.

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I didn't take a pic of the outhaul without the slider.

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:49 am
by gk108
If the little slider track is OK, I'd repair or replace the slider. It seems like it would be difficult to control the leech tension, etc. without the slider. You might want to consider a double purchase on the outhaul. If you used a block where the D-shackle is and ran the outhaul through the block and around to an anchor point opposite the existing block, the outhaul will pull more directly in line with the boom.

edit: never mind that last part :oops:

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:00 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
gk108 wrote:If the little slider track is OK, I'd repair or replace the slider. It seems like it would be difficult to control the leech tension, etc. without the slider. You might want to consider a double purchase on the outhaul. If you used a block where the D-shackle is and ran the outhaul through the block and around to an anchor point opposite the existing block, the outhaul will pull more directly in line with the boom.

edit: never mind that last part :oops:
Good point a double purchase would relieve the tension on the slider. Now to see if I have the length to do that.

thanks.

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:16 pm
by jpb
Hallo ArizonaBuilder,

I am so excited about your little yacht. Every day I take a look at the Message Board and hope to see new pictures.

Have fun with your sailing boat!

jpb

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:36 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
jpb wrote:Hallo ArizonaBuilder,

I am so excited about your little yacht. Every day I take a look at the Message Board and hope to see new pictures.

Have fun with your sailing boat!

jpb
jpb, thanks. You know it is the greatest feeling being on the water and looking around and thinking "I built this great little boat". I makes all the days of sweat, saw dust and itchy skin from the fiberglass all worth it.

Sounds like you need to build yourself a boat.

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:48 pm
by ks8
I haven't much experience in this, but it seems to me that if a sail is loose footed, rig it (specifically the clew) consistent with that function. The slider is neat, but the forces on it are in all sorts of directions, and not in the direction of a single greatest strength of the part (slider *car*). If you want to keep the slider, you probably need to modify the part or how it attaches to the clew, and how it handles loads at a 45° angle.

But there are other voices here with much more experience than I. Glad she is sailing well and meeting all your expectations. ANd that you could enjoy a good sail when everyone else had to clear the lake. :)

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:41 pm
by rudar
What I know about such things might fill a moderately large thimble, but if you do put a slider on, I would attach the slider to the clew to keep it down to the boom, and attach the outhaul directly to the clew to haul it out, rather than running the force of the outhaul through the slider...

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:47 am
by Laszlo
I'm considering a similar concept to what ks8 & rudar describe for my AD14. My notional implementation is a line of parrel beads (like on a gaff jaw) to actually hold the clew to the boom, then the outhaul attached directly to the clew and passing through fairleads to the first block.

This would tend to keep the downward & longitudinal forces separated, each with their own dedicated hardware, rather than having any one piece have to carry all the load. It would also be easier to fabricate and repair than a slider with track and I'm basically lazy.

I'm also thinking of extra glass reinforcement (inside & out) where the parrel beads would go sliding over the boom. Also maybe rubber instead of wooden beads.

Laszlo

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:53 am
by Cracker Larry
I agree with Laszlo. There is too much force at the wrong angle for just a slider at the clew to hold. The sail either needs sliding lugs along the entire length of the foot, or many sails use a bolt rope along the foot and the rope slides into a track on the boom.

Either of these will be much more efficient than loose footed.

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:38 pm
by ks8
I believe the concepts of that boat and rig are more centered around simple reliability rather than utmost performance, hence the loose footed sail. Same with the CV16. I'm sticking with that, but getting a little creative with atttaching the boom vang, instead of using a bail (way expensive!), which I'll go into on my thread.

I lean towards what Laszlo said. I didn't take the time to elaborate, but he captured the idea perfectly that I had in mind, ie...
Laszlo wrote:This would tend to keep the downward & longitudinal forces separated, each with their own dedicated hardware, rather than having any one piece have to carry all the load. It would also be easier to fabricate and repair than a slider with track and I'm basically lazy.
Instead of parrel beads, I was thinking more of a simple car, or a running block on a taut line. And a separate outhaul line. But the parrel beads sounds even easier. I don't think lazy fits in the equation. He's got a good idea. But your slider may still work, if it were made of SS, similar to the section of goosenecks that fits in the sail slot.

Image

Link is from www.dwyermast.com, DH 4175 ...

here http://www.dwyermast.com/items.asp?cat1 ... Goosenecks

... cept you wouldn't need the part that would be used to connect a boom. It is the SS slider that would be handy for you, if it fits in the slot you made on the boom end (if it is somewhat industry standard sized like the slot in a dinghy mast). If your slot can accomodate that slider, the slider can handle those loads. I don't know if your slot could handle the loads. This time, the slider was the weakest link. With a SS slider, the slot mechanics may become the weakest link. And ss against your CF slot, will require inspection, etc. Just more ideas.

:)

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:13 pm
by Cracker Larry
I believe the concepts of that boat and rig are more centered around simple reliability rather than utmost performance,
Maybe, but No reason it has to be if you want some performance. This photo strikes me as being a little racier than simple :lol:

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There are wide selections of tracks and cars and slides you could use. Check out these for some options of sail slides and tracks.

http://www.sailmakerssupply.com/prod_detail_list/29

http://www.tidesmarine.com/sail-track.html
I'm sticking with that, but getting a little creative with atttaching the boom vang,


From a sailing efficiency perspective, a good outhaul and downhaul arrangement is much more important than a vang. The boom vang would be almost useless on a loose footed sail and only be any use when running dead downwind. Even Noahs Ark could sail downwind :P Most sailboats I'm on seem to always have to sail to windward, where a tight flat sail makes all the difference in pointing ability.

But it's all in what you have in mind 8)

Outhauls and loose footed sails

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:18 pm
by Justin Pipkorn
Stay with the loose footed sail. Attaching the foot to the boom adds complexity. It is much easier to rig and release the arrangement you have. Besides, the sail is probably cut to be loose footed.

I found that with the loose footed boom, I can hold onto the boom as I go forward to the mast. Think safety.

I found that a 2:1 purchase is enough to tighten my sail which is about the same 100 SF as yours.

It is essential to keep the boom attached to the clew of the sail. If the clew raised off the boom, you will not be able to keep control or tension the sail. If the cleat opens, you are likely to be hit on the head by the boom.

Rather than the slide attached to the boom, my sail has a substantial sail slide attached to the clew. There is a opening cut in the boom track a foot or so forward of the end of the boom. The slide is fitted into the slot and then the outhaul attached. I like to use quick release shackles to attach the outhaul to the slide.

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I also like to be able to pull back on the outhaul rather than forward as in your setup. I find it easier to reach up from the helmsmans position to pull back on the outhaul.

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All the rigging for my my outhaul is inside the boom. I like to keep the strings out of the way.

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:32 pm
by rudar
As for the raciness comments, the club I sail with bought an all new fleet of Lasers with the race rigging set up. These things definitely go for performance rather than simplicity. It's an unstayed cat rig, with a 15:1 purchase on the boom vang, a loose footed sail, a 4:1 (numbers approximate...) on the outhaul, and there's just a velcro strap you shove through the clew ring and around the boom, after you've tied the outhaul on.

So from that limited experience, having a loosefooted sail, a boom vang, something to connect the clew down to the boom, and going for performance don't seem particularly incompatible.

I also sailed the Vanguard 15, which is a standard two-sail bermudan rig. While I sailed it more often than the Laser, we left the sails on the booms when de-rigging, so my memory isn't entirely clear. But they are also definitely loose-footed, and I believe they have a car from the clew ring to a track on the boom, and the outhaul tied directly to the clew ring.

EDIT: Oh, and also, our "race coaches" (amateurs, but ones with more experience than us rookies) seemed to think that the boom vang was tightened when sailing upwind, and let completely loose when sailing downwind, which contradicts one of the postings above... But they may have been wrong, of course.

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:08 pm
by Cracker Larry
Justin, that's a nice setup!
Besides, the sail is probably cut to be loose footed.


That's a good point. If it is cut to be loose footed you would not want attached along the foot.

EDIT: Oh, and also, our "race coaches" (amateurs, but ones with more experience than us rookies) seemed to think that the boom vang was tightened when sailing upwind, and let completely loose when sailing downwind, which contradicts one of the postings above... But they may have been wrong, of course.

Yes, that's wrong. The vang is to hold the boom down when running downwind, to keep the sail flat and from twisting. When off the wind, the sail gets a belly in it, causing the boom to lift and the top of the sail to twist off and spill wind. The vang keeps the boom level.

How to tighten boom vang!

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:37 pm
by Justin Pipkorn
On my boat, the mainsheet is much more powerful than the vang. I often use the mainsheet to sheet down the boom, then tighten the vang and let out the mainsheet to go downwind. I have only a three to one vang. OK for cruisng and a simple rig but not up to race standards.

I've noticed some racing boats that have very powerful and adjustable vangs. On smaller boats, they use the vang rather than the mainsheet to tension the twist in the main when the boom is out part way. Then they use end sheeting to the main with relatively low purchase but very quick sheeting. With a planing dinghy, the ability to quickly adjust the mainsheet is important. Problem is that it puts very high loads on the boom. The simple end sheeting as I remember didn't even have a traveler. With the boom sheeted in all the way, the boom would usually be sheeting near the middle of the traveler anyway.

This brings up an interesting thought. I am always trying to find a way to simplify rigging. Perhaps some form of tubular/spring rigid vang with very powerful and highly adjustable vang with a very simple end sheeted mainsheet might be an alternative. Doiwnwind, the main is vanged flat. On a reach, the vang is adjusted so the main is twisted such that the leech tell tales are flying and then just moved in and out. But the vang isn't adjusted very much. Then to weather, the sail twist is similarly adjusted and the mainsheet centered. This configuration might have the advantage of allowing a bimini, which doesn't usually work with midboom sheeting. My observation is that guys who sit under the bimini may be cooler but they seldom appropriately adust main for changing conditions...SLOW!

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:06 pm
by Cracker Larry
I've noticed some racing boats that have very powerful and adjustable vangs.
Oh yeah, today a lot of them are even using hydraulic cylinders. Talk about loading a boom 8O Vangs are tough on booms anyway, and even tougher when using them to windward to control sail twist. I've broke some booms like that. IMO, FWIW, your results may vary :lol: sail twist in anything higher than a beam reach is better controlled with the traveler and sheet. That's what the traveler is for. The vang puts incredible loads on the boom and gooseneck if trying to do the job of the traveler.

Like you say, a bimini interferes with all this on a small boat. A good traveler needs to be mid-boom. End of boom sheeting really causes excessive sail twist and without a traveler, the vang is the only twist control you have, but it is not the ideal one.

Maybe that's why we don't see many bimini tops on IOR boats. If you've got nowhere to be except where you are, slow is good too :lol:

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:07 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Well, I hit a hot topic.

The sail is meant to be loose fitted and cut with a curved foot.

So I think I will replace the CF slider with a left over nylon sail slide from when I put the sliders on the luff. The slider will fit in the clew grommet and go in the slide track to keep the sail on the boom. I will then take the outhaul system and connect it directly to the clew with the D shackle.

Hopefully the nylon slider can handle the load. If if does let go the clew will still be attached to the outhaul with the D shackle and won't be flapping in the wind totally loose.

Thanks a lot guys for your ideas. The outhaul on the boom may look racey but I just want to control the draft a little based on the strength of the winds. My problem was caused from tightening the outhaul too much on a beam reach and going close hauled and sheeting in the sail. As soon as I hauled in the sail the piece just exploded. I guess a little too much pressure.

I have also found if I sheet in the sail too much I can put a substantial bend in the boom. I would hate for it to break in the middle of the lake. I would be motoring home for sure.

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:12 am
by Justin Pipkorn
This is the type of slide you need:
Image

Mast are supposed to bend...under control. The bend in the mast flattens the sail.

Your logic is a little in reverse...usually going to weather, the sail is sheeted in fairly flat. Your hardware should take the load. On a reach, the sail is let out ... vang, halyard, outhaul, mainsheet, traveler - so it takes on takes on a fuller shape. If you put tell tales on each batten, the tell tales will all stream aft and not collapse when the twist on the sail is optimum. Downwind, once again the sail can be flat to maximize area...it's just a barndoor then.

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:47 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Justin Pipkorn wrote:This is the type of slide you need:
Image

Mast are supposed to bend...under control. The bend in the mast flattens the sail.
Justin, When I said the boom bends, I meant the boom not the mast. When the boom is sheeted all the way in and I keep tightening the sheet the boom actually bends because the sheet block is attached at the 3/4 point on the boom and the tightened leech is holding the boom end. So if I let the sheet out a little all the tension on the leech/outhaul is loosened so I can tighten the outhaul.

Justin Pipkorn wrote:This is the type of slide you need:
Image

Your logic is a little in reverse...usually going to weather, the sail is sheeted in fairly flat. Your hardware should take the load. On a reach, the sail is let out ... vang, halyard, outhaul, mainsheet, traveler - so it takes on takes on a fuller shape. If you put tell tales on each batten, the tell tales will all stream aft and not collapse when the twist on the sail is optimum. Downwind, once again the sail can be flat to maximize area...it's just a barndoor then.
Yes, that was the problem when I sheeted in the sail while going to weather the CF slider could not take the load and let go.

I am sorry if my previous post lead you astray. I can envision what I am saying but not necessarily put it on paper. :)

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:02 pm
by Cracker Larry
When the boom is sheeted all the way in and I keep tightening the sheet the boom actually bends because the sheet block is attached at the 3/4 point on the boom and the tightened leech is holding the boom end.
This is where the traveler comes into play. It positions the boom without tightening the leech. Traveler for position, sheet for tension.

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:05 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Cracker Larry wrote:
When the boom is sheeted all the way in and I keep tightening the sheet the boom actually bends because the sheet block is attached at the 3/4 point on the boom and the tightened leech is holding the boom end.
This is where the traveler comes into play. It positions the boom without tightening the leech. Traveler for position, sheet for tension.
That is one mod I am planning for the future, a traveller bridge between the seats. First I need to get the inside creature comforts completed. :)

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:37 pm
by ks8
Thank you for the broken slider AB! :D It has opened up the subject. :) I like the idea of at least capturing the clew to the boom. Why try and more precisely control the boom if the clew is roaming around, a foot away?

But there is another consideration I don't think has been mentioned yet. And that is the issue of how wide a groove you want. Not the sail track groove, but the groove of the sail set. When you narrowly optimize the performance, you might go faster on that course, with that wind direction and speed, but if it is gusty out, winds variable, or you want good sail power while changing course widely to maneuver in and around waves, a narrowly tuned setup will have to be constantly adjusted. A more *broadband* or *lower Q* trim will still pull well without having to constantly tweak the precise sail shape, even though it won't pull the best that it can in more ideal and stable conditions of wind and course. Overall, it is nice if the rig layout can tweak the best performance in those stable conditions, when you want to, but it doesn't mean you always should. It seems some of the drawn rigs are drawn as low Q or wide groove configurations, which are probably easier on the nerves for someone just learning to sail. That roaming clew above the boom is one of those low Q arrangements, very forgiving though not the fastest.

I found the Fernhurst book on sail and rig tuning to be excellent, short, simple, but there's nothing like a real world idea and experience exchange, like this one, in approaching how to optimize a rig with slight modifications. And you've made such a purdy CF boom to use as an example AB. :D

Keep it going guys! Great info... :)

Now pardon me while I get ready to possibly have to pull my foot out of my mouth. :roll:

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:16 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
ks8 wrote:Thank you for the broken slider AB! :D It has opened up the subject. :) I like the idea of at least capturing the clew to the boom. Why try and more precisely control the boom if the clew is roaming around, a foot away?

Keep it going guys! Great info... :)

Now pardon me while I get ready to possibly have to pull my foot out of my mouth. :roll:
Well since you opened the door. My goal with the outhaul is to allow the ability to roughly tune the draft of the sail for the overall wind conditions.

During light or heavy winds I want a flatter sail so the winds will hug the curvature of the sail and not fall off before reaching the leach. During moderate winds I want a fuller sail. I also installed a couple of telltales near the leach end of the battens so I can tell how well the air is flowing over the sails.
I have also installed the standard set of telltales near the luff.

I am also playing with the tension of the full length battens in the sail.
The battens sit in pockets in the sail and and I am using rope at the leach end to securely hold the battens in the pockets. I have also attached plastic batten holders at the luff end of the pocket to stop the battens from breaking through the pocket ends.

Image

Image


With this arrangement Justin commented on one of my pics of the sail that it had a lot of draft so I decided to try something.

Since the rope tension at the leach end of the batten pocket was keeping the batten ends in the plastic holders at the luff. I decided to drill a hole through the plastic holder and the batten and secured the 2 together with a bolt and nut. Now I don't need the ropes at the leach end to hold the battens in the pockets. But can now use the rope to simply apply a certain amount of tension to control the overall draft or the effect of the batten on sail shape. I can only assume that if I have little to no tension on the battens I will have a slighty flatter sail and if I apply a lot of tension the shape will be fuller. I know the draft of a sail is basically determined by the cut of the sail. But I will play and see if the tension of the battens does or does not have an effect on the sail shape.

Yes, the battens stay in the sail full time.[/img]

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:54 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Here is a pic of Cool Change getting ready for launch with the first mate looking on making sure I am doing things correctly. :)

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When you have the only cat rigged boat on the lake you must be prepared for visitors while you are rigging. :)

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Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:09 am
by ArizonaBuilder
Here is a pic of the mast head setup. The VHF and 12v cables go through the center of the mast. The metal bar is for the windex wind vane. The setup is functional but I need to finish the cable setup properly for the weather. I also used a stock dwyer mast head and the main sheet runs outside of the mast.

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This pic shows the trolling motor socket and the 110v socket(larger one) so I can plug in an extension cord for the on board charger.

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This pic shows some webbing attached between 2 bow eyes. One on the transon and the other on the CB case where the main sheet block attaches. The webbing is for something to slip a foot under during extreme heeling or to be used as a jack line.

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Here is a pic of the composite leaning posts. They were made from 1/2 electrical conduit and covered with a FG sock. The vertical post was attached to the curved section with CF tape. To attach them to the boat I drilled a 1/2" hole about a 1/2" deep and embedded the ends in a solution of epoxy and wood flour. They are extremely stable and hopefully will stay that way for a long time. I covered the top section with some copper pipe insulation. This insulation will be covered with some weather proof fabric like sunbrella. I think I still need more padding as after 3 - 4 hours it was a little unconfortable on the back.

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Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:17 am
by ArizonaBuilder
Here is the new setup for the outhaul, a sail slug and the D shackle. The shackle goes to the outhaul tackle and the slug goes in the outhaul track.

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Here is the slim line clamp from McMaster Carr.

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Here is the compression fork from harbor freight.

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Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:45 pm
by ks8
Thanks for the pictures. gave me some alternate ideas for the masthead. :D

Is that the Davis low amperage light up there? Or will you change to a tricolor one day? Do you use it for motoring and anchor light? Not having a ballasted hull, I can't really populate the masthead, but I like seeing how others maximize the real estate. :)

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:32 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
ks8 wrote:Thanks for the pictures. gave me some alternate ideas for the masthead. :D

Is that the Davis low amperage light up there? Or will you change to a tricolor one day? Do you use it for motoring and anchor light? Not having a ballasted hull, I can't really populate the masthead, but I like seeing how others maximize the real estate. :)
Not sure on the make of the light I will have a look next time I am out to the boat. Yes the mast head light is a 360 white light for motoring and at anchor. It will be staying as I have a red/green bow light on the front of the bow a few inches back from the front shroud.

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:56 am
by ArizonaBuilder
Now for some action shots of Cool Change. I dropped my first mate off at the floating bathrooms in one the bays on the lake. There are floating bathrooms at each end of the lake. Nice convenience. :) It was a nice day on the lake, even though the sky threatened rain. It never did rain. The winds were around 10 mph and the boat sailed along nicely. With the current rake of the mast there is a little weather helm and the tiller only requires a very light touch. 2 fingers. When sitting against the back rests I can just reach the tiller back by the transom, so a tiller extension is in order to be able to sit comfortably and not have to reach for the tiller.

Profile shot.
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A little heeling action.

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A little bow wake. :)

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Here is a pic of the new outhaul arrangement using a leftover nylon slug.
It seems to be working well. If it does let go at least the sail will still be attached to the boom.
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Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:58 pm
by jpb
Thank you for the pictures!

jpb

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:03 pm
by ks8
Beautiful! :D

Are you going to try a controlled knock down, to see how she rights herself? 8)

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:08 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
ks8 wrote:Beautiful! :D

Are you going to try a controlled knock down, to see how she rights herself? 8)
hhhmmmmmm, let me think about that for a minute. aaaaahhhhhh


NO.. :)

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:00 pm
by ks8
:lol:

You could pull down the mast head, or tang point on the mast, at the dock, and measure how much force is needed to hold it down, then watch her roll back up... or... not. :)

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:25 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
I am looking forward to this weekend. I am off to another lake here in Arizona. There is a trailer sailor event on Saturday and Friday at Lake Havasu. There will be lots of West Wright Potters and some Montgomerys. This will give me an opportunity to see how Cool Change sails compared to other boats similar in size.

I am looking forward to meeting and enjoying the company of other sailors with like interests.

Time to show off the boat... :)

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:13 pm
by gk108
That sounds like fun. I'm sure your boat will show herself favorably. Are you going to camp onboard?

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:35 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
gk108 wrote:That sounds like fun. I'm sure your boat will show herself favorably. Are you going to camp onboard?
No camping this trip with lows in the 40s. The event has been designed to give the first mates a break from staying on the boats so rooms have been acquired at each end of the lake. Yes they are being spoiled.

Here is a link to the event.
http://havasumontgomerys.piczo.com/?g=40932457&cr=1

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:28 pm
by topwater
Good luck, have fun, go get'em, make us proud :!:
I have a feeling youre going to spend alot of time
explaining how you built that beautiful boat :)

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:03 am
by davekf
Az... that's some nice work on your boat. It must feel GREAT to be out sailing on a piece of art. :D

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:23 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Dave, thanks for the compliments.

It does feel great to be out sailing after so many years of labor. It was definitely a labor of love. Especially re doing some big mistakes during the process.

I got a lot of compliments from the group at the Lake Havasu Pocket Cruiser Poker Run. I met a lot of interesting sailors and the builder of the Montgomery sailboats.

Justin P. Bob says HI.

Bob from Montgomery sailboats was very impressed with Cool Change and thought it should be on the cover of Small Craft Advisor. I a not sure about that statement but what do I know.. :)

Image

I did learn a valuable lesson from this trip.. If you want to make a 15 mile run down a lake and the winds are light you won't make it with a trolling motor. It is just too long of a trip. A trolling motor is fine for getting to and from the dock, but not so good for a long trip on a lake. So when I got home, I went out and got a good deal on a 2HP 2006 nissan which will be a necessity if I want to make the Catalina trip this summer. Live and learn. My new motto for 2009.. :)

Nice picture of a nice boat

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:44 am
by Justin Pipkorn
The boat blooks really great. The sail appears to set well, at least in light air.

Thanks for relaying Bob's greetings. I always wanted to visit his shop. I think his boats typify good design. I hoped to influence him to incorporate a Vagabond interior to enhance the cruising capability.

I think your upgrade to a longer range outboard is essential particularly if you are planning your near "bluewater" trip to Catalina. When you are ready to go, I may have some suggestions for you. I suggest finding some 20-25 K practice sailing conditions so you won't be surprised by the afternoon breeze blowing through the isthumus.

I noticed that you and crew are sitting at the end of the boat. I expect you will find better performance if you move as far foreward as you can. The AD has a broad transom and lots of bouyancy aft so in the picture, the tramson is just out of the water. But if you move foreward, you won't be dragging the transom. In heavier air, you may have to move aft again to balance. Try it, you may like it.

I am really interested to hear how well the AD points when compared with other similar boats. The centerboard configuration is a little different and I wonder how effective it is. The VG20 appears to point very high, partly, I theorize, because of the chine. The single chine on the AD may act in a similar way.

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:09 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Justin,

I will continue with my updates on how she sails as I acquire the info.

The new 2HP 4 stroke pushes the boat along nicely at 5.76 mph which is more than hull speed at 1/2 throttle. So I know I have some extra power there to fight tide currents if I venture out into the ocean. It was Mardi Gras day for the event put on by the Lake Pleasant Sailing Club. So beads were in order for the day and it will remain a secret as to what I had to show the ladies in the other boat for the beads. 8O 8)

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In this image I am calling the wind gods asking for some more wind. Which did come along after I left the lake for the day. :(
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In this pic I am trying to fix the twisted clew because I put the outhaul slider in twisted. I should have checked better before raising the sail.
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Just a nice pic of a glassy lake.
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Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:44 am
by bondo
Great job! Nice looking boat. Thankyou for posting the pictures. I am building the AD 14. As you can imagine, I pour over every picture, looking for every detail. Seeing your boat confirms my choice to build an AD. Thankyou

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:44 am
by Laszlo
It will remain a secret as to what I had to show the ladies in the other boat for the beads.
Terry,

I got my beads by promising NOT to show things to the ladies. Sometimes blackmail is better than a bribe :-)

Anyway, nice pics. Gotta get you out somewhere that there's more water and wind. In the meantime, what was the OD and ID for the delrin tubing that you used for the sail track?

Laszlo

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:18 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
bondo wrote:Great job! Nice looking boat. Thankyou for posting the pictures. I am building the AD 14. As you can imagine, I pour over every picture, looking for every detail. Seeing your boat confirms my choice to build an AD. Thankyou
Thanks bondo, enjoy your build and remember these pics when you are getting discouraged. :)

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:43 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Laszlo wrote:
It will remain a secret as to what I had to show the ladies in the other boat for the beads.
Terry,

I got my beads by promising NOT to show things to the ladies. Sometimes blackmail is better than a bribe :-)

Anyway, nice pics. Gotta get you out somewhere that there's more water and wind. In the meantime, what was the OD and ID for the delrin tubing that you used for the sail track?

Laszlo
Laszlo, you ruined my secret. I actually got 4 sets of beads for NOT showing. :)

As for wind, one day I was out in 20 mph winds on the same lake, it was alot of fun and the boat handled great. A couple of times I almost buried the nose and actually got some spray over the top. Now I need some action shots of strong wind sailing.. Except in those winds I was the only one on the lake as everyone else was holed up in some cove.

Here are the stats on the delrin tubes.

White Delrin Tube 3/4" OD X 1/2" ID, 5' Length

I bought them and my lexan for the windows from McMaster Carr.. great site and good prices for all kinds of materials.

Since the tubing came in 5' lengths I took a hardwood dowel and wrapped some duct tape around the dowel so it would fit snugly inside the tubing and used the dowels to align the multiple pieces when I epoxied the tubes to the CF mast. I also prayed that I could get them out at a later date. i was concerned that the epoxy might seep through the joint and bond the dowels in place. This is why I wrapped the dowel in duct tape, so I could possibly break any bonding.

When I finally cut the slot in the track I was able to use a slotted screw driver through the slot and bang the dowels out the end of the mast.

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:06 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
I think I have finally decided how and where the PortaPotti will sit for comfortable use.

I am going to build a step just inside the cabin at the companionway door just above the slanted portion of the CB trunk. The step will eliminate the stepping on the slanted CB case and possibly slipping. The step will be large enough so that the PortaPotti can sit on the step. This raises the Potti about 4 -5 inches above the floor and allow for a more comfortable sit. :). In this position you can also have the hatch cover open for standing to drop the drawers or to pull them back up. For privacy you can install the companionway boards so someone in the cockpit doesn't get mooned. The top of the companionway boards should come up to about the navel, thus giving some privacy at least while sitting.

The step will be removable so it can be installed in the cockpit in the same location except now on the cockpit side of the bulkhead. This would be for use when sleeping at night. Again the companionway boards can be used for privacy from the sleeping quarters and a boom tent can give privacy from the other boaters while at anchor.

Ergonomically, the potti should be as close as possible to the same height as a standard toilet for a comfortable d????. :) I think this step will make using the potti alot more comfortable. And the guys can even stand or should I say kneel in front of. :) Just don't miss and watch out for those balance upsetting waves..

So potti inside during day, outside during the night and stowed under the cockpit seats when not in use.


:help: :help:


I will need to mock up a step to see if it is viable location for the potti..

Probably will need some type of strap to keep it on the step during a big heel. For a complete knock down all bets go out the window.

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:41 am
by bondo
I hadn't thought of the companionway idea. Very clever. Reguarding the powder room, I thought I might build a simple and light "wag bag" system that could be stored under the cockpit sole. Although not glamorous, this waste management system has some merit. Inexpensive, use it inside or out, if you don't need it...you don't see it (or smell it), no need to haul out and clean out after each sail. On such a small boat, I wondered if the porta potty would "be in my face the whole time." And finally, if it didn't work out, I could literally throw my potty trainer out the window, and buy a proper one.

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:59 am
by Cracker Larry
I bucket trained my first mate many years ago, one of the best things I've ever done :lol:

Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:31 am
by Laszlo
Thanks Terry.

There's a possibility that I can buy the stuff in lengths up to 20 feet from a supplier who deals with my company, delivered to our loading dock. If so, I'll try a slightly different sequence - first cut the slot, then glue it to the mast. That should avoid The Opportunist's problem with the tube collapsing inward and debonding.

On the other subject, there's an interesting twist to boat sanitation laws here on the Chesapeake. It is illegal to put human wastes into the water from a boat, but only if they pass through a container first. From people directly into the water is legal from the environmental point, though it could land you in the pokey for indecent exposure.

Laszlo

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:35 am
by D2Maine
nm

Re: AD16 - Cool Change

Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 12:59 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
It has been a while since I have had an opportunity to get out sailing, with getting married and moving.
So yesterday, I finally made it out to the lake for a nice afternoon sail. The winds were up and it looked like a great day
for a sail. After motoring out to the middle of the lake it was time to raise the sail.

When I went to install the first sail slug, I noticed that the delrin tube had collapsed and the track opening for the slider was blocked. There was no way to raise the sail.. :(

Image

Now the question is how to fix the problem as sailing is out of the question until a solution is found.

Do I throw out the CF mast and boom and buy a dwyer mast? Sounds expensive.
Do I cut out the old track and replace with new tubing? Sounds like too much work.
or do I fill in the existing track with epoxy/flour combo and add an external sail track. So far my choice.

I am thinking about filling the existing sailtrack tube with an epoxy/flour mix. After it hardens I will flatten
out the top surface so I have a flat area to secure this SS sailtrack. Now how to secure the track. Are screws at
6" centers enough or should some type of epoxy/glue be used on the underside of the track?

http://www.sailrite.com/Sail-Track-Stai ... ot-Section

And I will need to change the sliders on the sail.

I sure need some help here.

Re: AD16 - Cool Change

Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 1:17 pm
by TomW
AD I'd put some 5200 on the back side just for insurance. That way you will have a good seat along the entire length of the track and not at just every 6", I always play it cautious. :wink: It looks like that system would work well for you. Sorry the other one failed.

Tom

Re: AD16 - Cool Change

Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 3:12 pm
by AD16 The Opportunist
:( :( Sorry to hear that , Terry... I Have replaced all the delrin tubes with some FG ones, of course the inner surface is smooth, not smoother than delrin but I can live with, I think your solution could be a good idea, but first try to slide out the delrin from one side, reduce the sides with a router(I think is epoxy/microballons) and fill the groove with epoxy thickened with woodflour and cottonfibers or woodflour/milled glass fibers (better)... I'm wondering only about the different hardware needed for an external sail track... :doh: trying to figure how much to cut away to have the main sail in the same position :doh:


BTW, cutting the sides with a router before filling, allows you to work on two already flat surfaces

Re: AD16 - Cool Change

Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 3:30 pm
by ks8
If sailing is a high priority with the new Mrs. (congratulations! :D ), then I'd get the section of Dywer and sail during the daylight, while working out the other in the evenings, as time permits. Your boom should still be fine, though the gooseneck arrangement may need to be altered. A CF mast is nice, but I suggest letting the Mrs in on the decision to get a Dywer for this season, especially if it means the difference between using the boat or not for an entire season. A honeymoon season no less.

5200 sounds better for the back of that SS track. But get it right first time... last time.

:D

Re: AD16 - Cool Change

Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 4:49 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Guys, thanks for the help..

Ks8, our sailing season here is actually starting to wind down. Once we start hitting June, July, August, the winds on the lake start to die and it gets awfully hot on the lake. However, it is a great time of year to head over to the ocean for some great sailing.. I am planning on the attending the small cruiser challenge in July in the great Pacific ocean. This will be my goal for completing the mast repair.

The new Mrs. and I are heading down to Key Largo in 3 weeks to stay at the Key Lime Sailing Club. We will have use of a 22' Catalina for the week. I am looking forward to sailing in the ocean, possibly catching some fish.

So I have some time over the next month to afix my repairs.

I will take some pics and post them as I complete the different stages of the repair.

Re: AD16 - Cool Change

Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:16 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Well one month short of two years and the repairs to the mast have been done and tested. Today
was what I would call a perfect sailing day. The temperature was 90 degrees sunny and the wind was blowing from 7 mph to 18.

I had forgotten how much fun it is to sail Cool Change when the wind is blowing.

When we made it out on the lake this morning the wind was fairly calm around 7 mph and Cool Change (CC) moved along at 2 - 3 mph. I very slow relaxing sail . This gave us time to settle into the sailing routine again. About an hour later the wind picked up and we were running downwind at 5 mph with the wind speedometer at 7 mph.. So I guess at that time the wind was blowing around 12 mph. It would have been really nice to have launched a spinnaker. Maybe in the near future.

Over the next couple of hours we had wind speeds averaging around 10 - 15 mph and CC moved along between 4-5 mph a very nice sail speed.

Bondo. You had asked if the AD14 was slow/medium. Lets say if you get some nice winds around 10 mph or higher you will really enjoy yourself. She will move along near hull speed. So I would say medium. The next question is how does this compare to other boats in the same size range. I guess the only way to find out is to sail with them.

After we had enjoyed ourselves for a couple of hours we decided to point the boat back up the lake toward the boat ramp. This meant sailing into the wind and tacking along the way. The wind again decided to pickup and blow around 15 mph, so I decided it was time to see how high I could point into the wind. I can't tell you an exact angle, but looking at the wind vane it was very good. Continued on next post.

Re: AD16 - Cool Change

Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:30 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
Now the fun began when I decided to haul in the main sheet all the way. I could feel the boat picking up speed and heeling over between 20- 25 degrees. I was in my glory. The wife was a little intimidated when we were heeled over as she was on the high side and was worried about sliding off the seat. The dog our little beagle who was sleeping at this time was not amused when he started to slide over to the other side of the cockpit floor.. :)

Bondo, no worries the AD points just fine and moves along well with the winds. I am totally happy with boat except for the lack of standing headroom and no shower. :)

Be prepared for chatting with fellow boats at the ramp about your boat.

Re: AD16 - Cool Change

Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:31 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
During todays sail I decided to take some of the slack out of the downwind shrouds. So I had my wife handle the boat on different tacks while I took out some of the slack. This was fine on the lake but when trying to disconnect the shrouds from the chain plates later was near impossible now to the extra tightness. So I have decided that I really need a couple of Johnson quick release shroud levers to make connecting/disconnecting the shrouds less of a chore.

Re: AD16 - Cool Change

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 1:38 am
by gk108
Could you get away with only one lever on the forestay?
Also, how did you resolve the sail track problem?

Re: AD16 - Cool Change

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:04 am
by bondo
That's great Arizona builder. Love all the details. Especially the good sailing reports. What does your wife think about being on the boat?

Re: AD16 - Cool Change

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:56 am
by ArizonaBuilder
She loves the boat. She is actually pushing to get something larger in the upper 20's. She would love to try some coastal sailing from cabo to vancouver.

Re: AD16 - Cool Change

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:13 am
by ArizonaBuilder
gk108 wrote:Could you get away with only one lever on the forestay?
Also, how did you resolve the sail track problem?
It is possible that maybe I can get away with a single lever. I will try that first.

So as we know the delrin tube which acted as the sail track pulled away from the fiberglass and collapsed making it impossible to raise the sail. So the first thing to do was to remove the tubing. For this I took a cutting blade on my dremel and ran it along the length of the tube to cut the backside of the tube. Once I cut the tube almost all the way through, it was easy to pry the two halves away from the fiberglass to remove them.

Now I was left with a fiberglass formed tube where the delrin tube was located. I next mixed up a epoxy woodflour mixture that was thick but still runny and poured it into the cavity until it was full along the total length of the mast. After this had cured for a couple of weeks in the arizona summer heat I took my belt sander along the length of the mast to create a small flat landing pad.

I purchased 3 6' foot sections of Sail Track Stainless 5/8" (6 Foot Section) from sailrite. The track is mounted with screws every couple of inches. I placed the track on the mast and predrilled some pilot holes. Next I placed the track on with 5200 and the screws along the length. I will have to see how this holds up over time. But it worked just fine yesterday.

I also replaced the existing sliders on my sail with sliders that were made for the track I was using.

Over all it was about a 200.00 fix.. Hopefully it holds.

Re: AD16 - Cool Change

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:26 am
by ArizonaBuilder
My next challenge is to figure out how to cut down the time to rig from travel mode to sail mode and back to travel mode so less time is spent rigging and derigging in the parking lot of the boat ramp. :)

My first question.

I have a small 2 hp 4 stroke nissan which sits on a adjustable bracket that allows me to lower or raise the motor when on the water. Is it okay to leave the motor on this bracket while on the road. Right now I move the motor to the transom and secure it with a tiedown strap. This setup is very secure.

If I could leave the motor on the bracket while traveling that will be one less thing to do at the ramp. If I left it on the bracket I would still secure it with a tie down strap.

Re: AD16 - Cool Change

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:53 pm
by gk108
That sounds like a good fix on the mast. Believe it or not, you were the one who inspired me to make a CF mast for my dinghy. I remember thinking it took you a long time to make it, but after spending most of the winter on mine, I guess you worked pretty fast on it. :lol:

You may want to check with your motor bracket manufacturer, but most are designed to take the beating on a trailer. There's a whole lot of them out there with a permanently rigged kicker for trolling in a large power boat. As long as your transom is properly reinforced, it seems like it would be OK.

Re: AD16 - Cool Change

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 5:02 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
I think I should be good with the mounted motor, it is only a 2 hp and the bracket is rated for a 5hp, max 124 lbs.
I just need to make sure the motor mounting screws don't come loose. :) and the bracket attachment to the transom has a backer plate inside the bench seat.. so well secured.

gk108:
What kind of track did you put in your mast?

Re: AD16 - Cool Change

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:45 am
by gk108
No track on my mast. It's just a small 40 sq. ft sail, roughly the same as a Bolger Nymph sail, so it's laced on the mast. After I tested the mast the first time, I thought it was a bit too limber for me, so I added a wooden filler to the aft side and made it teardrop shaped. After I added the wood strip, I realized that it would be a pretty easy way to add a track to it by flattening the aft side to make a bed for the track.

Re: AD16 - Cool Change

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:31 am
by jacquesmm
Nothing will properly glue Delrin. It should be secured with screws and a backing plate strip inside.

Re: AD16 - Cool Change

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:23 pm
by jacquesmm
Spi or cruising chute dims.

We got your email but I prefer to answer here, others may want the information.

What we show is not a jib but a gennaker.
For that spi
J = 181"
I = 98"

Your sail maker knows what that means.
J is from the mast to the tip of boom, I is from deck to spi block.

He is going to ask you what type of sail you want: cruising chute, asymmetrical spi, drifter or?

You wrote that you want an assymetrical spi. The rig is not designed for that but it is possible. You must reinforce the mast where the spi pole will push in compression.
Or then, I would hoist an assymetrical tri-radial on the pole we show or on a mini-Transat style pole articulated on the deck.
I prefer to put the compression on the deck than on the mast.
Talk to your sailmaker, show him the sail plan.

Re: AD16 - Cool Change

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:01 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
He is going to ask you what type of sail you want: cruising chute, asymmetrical spi, drifter or?

What kind of sail should I use with the spi pole.. a gennaker?

What did you have in mind when you showed the gennaker on the study plans.

Sorry, I just don't know which sail would be correct. I just want something to hoist. :)

Just too many choices..

I am building the spi pole as described in the plans..

Re: AD16 - Cool Change

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:33 pm
by jacquesmm
An easy solution is to find a used spi of about that size or smaller.
Use it, see what it dies and then decide.
Some types are easier to use, some are more powerful, some are better downwind others let you sail closer.

Re: AD16 - Cool Change

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:53 pm
by ArizonaBuilder
What would we do without Wikipedia.

A gennaker is a sail that was developed around 1990. Used when sailing downwind, it is a cross between a genoa and a spinnaker. It is asymmetric like a genoa, but the gennaker is not attached to the forestay like a jib or genoa. The gennaker is rigged like a spinnaker but the tack is fastened to the hull or to a bowsprit. It has greater camber than a genoa (but significantly less camber than a spinnaker). This is optimal for generating lift at larger angles of attack.

The gennaker is a specialty sail primarily used on racing boats to bridge the performance gap between a genoa and a spinnaker. It is sometimes the only downwind sail on board because it is easier to use and less expensive than a spinnaker. Due to its geometry, the sail is less prone to collapsing than a spinnaker. The differences that distinguish a gennaker from an asymmetric spinnaker are blurry; they are both high camber downwind sails. One difference is the amount of camber, which dictates the points of sail. A gennaker is optimal for a beam reach, while an asymmetric spinnaker is optimal for a broad reach or run.

So it looks like I want a gennaker/crusing sail that is optimal for a beam reach to a broad reach.
Now I will see what sailrite can come up with for Cool Change.

Re: AD16 - Cool Change

Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 3:57 pm
by Rick
ArizonaBuilder wrote:She loves the boat. She is actually pushing to get something larger in the upper 20's. She would love to try some coastal sailing from cabo to vancouver.
Thanks for the sailing reports. I've never sailed north of Ventura, but I have lots of friends who have, and even the guys in the 40-50 foot offshore racers don't like the central California coast. There's not much to do there other than sailing from harbor to harbor, either. Here's an unsolicited suggestion, build another "Just Right" and trailer her up to the Puget Sound/Georgia Straits area. You could spend a whole summer cruising in this area without ever having to deal with the north Pacific Ocean. Having seen a 65-foot fishing boat driven onto the beach in Coos Bay, that piece of ocean makes me nervous. Just a thought...

Re: AD16 - Cool Change

Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:14 am
by das boot
It is safer and safer to tor it up here then go sailing lots of sheltered water and tuns of places to go come on up