Boat Builder Central - Builder Forums

Check out the blog my friend Dave has set up to commemorate this historic boatbuilding event. There is even some (questionable quality) video of a couple of clowns at work. It's good to have a computer geek for your best friend.

Cheers,

Greg

http://houseboatbuilder.blogspot.com/

BTW, epoxy and digital video cameras don't mix...

Hey greg,

This Blog idea is great! Thanks for the pictures and video, they are a great help. I think you had the right idea when you ordered the plywood kit. I have been cutting plywood for a month now, but am now in the home stretch. I have a couple of questions about things I noticed on your Blog, so I hope you can enlighten me:

1) I noticed you epoxy sealed your stringers on the bench. Does this mean you will have to lightly sand before fiberglassing them in place? Why did you decide not to do this in-situe?

2) I noticed that you attached the forward stringers to the aft stringers, creating one long stringer from bow to stern. When I looked at the station/frame plans, I thought these were separated by the forward bulkhead. ie. the stringers butt up against the bulkhead. What is the advantage of doing it your way?

Hope to see more pics/video on your blog soon, and have it bookmarked on my browser.

Cheers,

Bill

Hey Gubbs

Yah, the blog is fun, although the videos leave something to be desired. I will have to remember to turn off the TV next time. Glad to hear you are progressing well.

1) When I have excess epoxy after gluing the joints, I pre-coat.

2) Good question. Maybe you are right. I will have to check the plans. I just planned on cutting a slot on the front bulkhead and using it as another frame.

Jacques?


Cheers,

Greg

I like the blog
Can't wait to see more of the build I like the boat you picked and would like to build it some day in the future.
Squid

Hi, I'm Dave, Iowa Boy Greg's croney on his GT23 project. I figured it was time for me to drop in and post here.

FYI, I've been keeping the blog mentioned in this post up to date. You can see it at http://houseboatbuilder.blogspot.com

Last weekend we got the front transom mounted to the building frame. I've got pics and video links. We learned after the first posting not to have the TV on in the background. Let me know what you think about the blog.

Dave

guys,
i like the site it took a little getting used to but i can operate it nicely have not logged in as am leary of those new type of site things "blogs" but like seeing the progress. I want to see how it floats as i might build one my self some day. I hope it is wind friendly. I live in oklahoma and it is really windy here. My ob-15 works well in the wind but it is a v hull where the ct is kind a flat maybe more like a garvy bottom I don't know for sure You are one of the first to build this boat I think.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Squid.

I understand how you could be leary of these blog sites. Between spammers and spyware, I'm leary of visiting sites I've never been to as well. That said, I've been using blogger's blog site since the beginning of the year and have had neither spam nor spyware as a result of my membership.

One thing you should be aware of though, as you consider cruising through blogs. There are some nefarious bloggers who write code in the background that can theoretically install spyware and/or viruses onto your machine. From my understanding, this type of activity isn't widespread, but it can -- and occasionally does -- happen. However, as long as you keep your virus protection up to date, use a firewall, and keep your operating system patches up to date, you're relatively safe. Better yet, switch to firefox.

Now that I've given you the full scoop on blogging, I'd love to see you (and anyone else who reads this post) sign up on blogger. Part of my reasoning for doing this blog is just to chronicle the boatbuilding process, but at the same time, I'm also doing this so others in this forum can learn from what we're doing. In order to help others learn, I'm going to need a little feedback, which I haven't really received to date.

If I had some concrete feedback posted on the blog, such as the stringer question that was asked in this forum earlier, I could post the answers to these questions in the blog. If I had recommendations, such as explain such-and-such more clearly in the videos, or make the videos shorter or longer, or whatever, it would make the blog a better site for anyone who visits it. It's not really any extra work for me to implement recommendations based on feedback, but I suspect it would help a lot of current builders, and those who are thinking about building.

Now of course, I'm NOT trying to lure anyone away from this forum. As Greg and I continue this project, I figure we'll ask questions here, and we can incorporate these questions and answers into the blog, making it a symbiotic relationship for my blog and for this forum. I also intend to come here to notify everyone when we update the blog site.

We did a little more work on the boat yesterday, and I've updated the blog (http://houseboatbuilder.blogspot.com) to show what we did. As usual this update includes text, a picture and a video synopsis.

Squid: I saw your comment on flickr, and posted my response on the blog. Let me know your thoughts to my response.

Greg: If you've got anything to add to my response to squid, let me know and I'll post it on the blog.

Dave

We've got the frame constructed! We still need to do a little tweaking, but if you look at the blog (http://houseboatbuilder.blogspot.com), the picture that goes along with this week's entry should enable you to get a mental picture of the shape of the hull.

OzzyC wrote: Better yet, switch to firefox.

I have been using FF for over a year and it has reduced spyware invading my computer to almost nothing. Install the plugins, extensions and themes you like and enjoy browsing. Thunderbird is the email counterpart: also an excellent and more flexible product that Micro$oft can offer at the moment.
NOTE: These are free programs. Download from mozilla.org.

Cheers
JohnH

Squid has posted another question on the blog (http://houseboatbuilder.blogspot.com), and I posted the answer there.

Just out of curiosity, how many of you are hitting this blog? Do you find it useful? Are the video clips helpful? Is there anything you'd like us to expound on more? Is there anything you'd like us to change? Though we're doing this blog as much for our benefit as anything, I'd like to make sure this blog is helpful to you as fellow boat builders. So if there's anything you'd like me to change, add, or discuss in more detail, please let me know.

You guys are doing a great job with this boat . . . AND with the blog site! Keep up the good work!

I've been following the blog and enjoying it very much. I look forward to following your progress. I'm interested in the concept of the GT23 and I'm looking forward to seeing the final product.

Ditto to what Dane and JohnI have said! I'm sure there are lots of us who are interested in following your progress, even if not many respond to your post.

I've finally taken the opportunity to cruise through a couple of other builders' threads and pics start to finish. It's really inspiring. Though Iowa Boy Greg and I have done small boats, it's really motivating to look at others doing similar projects, and picturing what the outcome of Greg's boat will be like. It's also helpful to see some of the trials and setbacks you've experienced, so we can be prepared for them; though I know we won't be without setbacks.

BTW, Squid, was that a bona fide squid lid I saw on your melon in one of those pics?

Yes it was.
I am retired U.S. Navy with 20 yrs service. That was the hat from my last ship USS Lake Erie CG 70 Based in pearl Harbor Hawaii.
Squid

Well, it's been a while since we've done any work, and since we've posted anything on the blog, but FINALLY there's a little progress. If you check out the blog (http://houseboatbuilder.blogspot.com) you can get an idea of what the boat will look like, and the latest dammits we've run into.

Aye-aye Captain!!

Since last checking in I got married, and Iowa Boy Greg was good enough to put the boat project on hold to help me out in the preparation of the wedding.

Now that the wedding's over though, we're getting back to work on the boat. We've got the seams pretty much stitched and glued, including filleting the gaps between the hull and transoms (from the inside).

We're still running in to fitting discrepencies between the plans and kit vs. how it actually fits together, but everything we've run into so far has been an issue with the pieces cut too large. And if there's got to be a discrepency, I'd rather have to cut stuff off, rather than adding strips of wood and putty.

If you'd like to see pics and more descriptions, go to http://houseboatbuilder.blogspot.com

To the powers that be:

I had a reader on my blog make the following comment/request...

You have a riveting web log and undoubtedly must have atypical & quiescent potential for your intended readership.

May I suggest that you do everything in your power to honor your designer/Architect as well as your audience.

Who should I credit for the design/architect aspect of the boat? I'd like to give a web link to the appropriate place. Is http://www.bateau.com sufficient? Should I add the name of the architect? If so, who is it?

Greg and I got a LOT accomplished this weekend. Take a look at the blog for some pics and a quick video synopsis of our progress...

http://houseboatbuilder.blogspot.com

Another week of work. See the blog...

For an added bonus, it's "back to basics" week on my blog. I touched up my Nice Canoe. See the blog for details.

http://houseboatbuilder.blogspot.com

This weekend we laid tape on the seams. Check it out at http://houseboatbuilder.blogspot.com

(From your blog) "We haven't done much the last couple of weeks, because my wife and I went on our honeymoon....."

Well, gee, I suppose that's a reasonably good excuse! Congratulations on your wedding and also on your building progress - it's looking good! Keep posting pics - I'm following your progress with interest.

Mike

Thanks for your understanding.

Greg and I pulled a marathon day yesterday (about seven hours straight) and started glassing the hull. You can see some pics at the usual spot http://houseboatbuilder.blogspot.com


Here's where we could use some advice... we ran out of epoxy part way through the process and I want to get clarification on how this may impact us...

We precoated the entire hull...

We laid out three strips of glass cloth over the hull from bow to stern. (Two bottom layers, slightly overlapping at the keel. One top layer, straddling the keel.) We were able to epoxy everything from the bow to about the halfway point, and then we ran out of epoxy. From the midway point to the stern, the bottom layer of fiberglass is "tacked" in place because of the base coat of epoxy we applied to the bare wood. The top layer of fiberglass is just there.

Here's my question...

Can we just buy more epoxy and pick up where we left off? Will there be any major compromise on the strength of the hull at the point where we ran out of epoxy??


For those of you who build in the future. Make sure that you have PLENTY of epoxy before you start laying glass.

Our plans estimate that we'd need 18 gallons of epoxy for the whole project. The plans also recommend a second layer of glass cloth on the exterior (as well as a layer on the interior) if you plan to use a motor >50h.p. We didn't consider the fact that extra cloth means extra epoxy. We had roughly three gallons of epoxy for yesterday's work. We needed about six.

Very few builders can fiberglass the whole boat in shot. There is no problem to stop and restart a few days later.
Before applying the next coats, wash off the amine and pass over the cured resin with a sander or grinder, that's all.

Curious...

what about the half that is tacked to the hull but not wetout? I'm trying to understand this right without overcomplicating something simple. Is there a problem wetting that out now with it *tack* cured but not really wetout to the hull? Is there a problem if those non wetout fibers get wet while washing the amine of the other half that is wetout and cured already? If the non wetout half gets wet during the wash, how long usually before being assured it is thoroughly dried and free of contaminating moisture? I know its not my boat thread, but I nearly ran into this myself in a big way and still wonder these details if it might happen in the future. I had to grind off a very small section of tape because it would not wetout after the *tack* lower epoxy on the wood had cured the previous application. It was as if enough epoxy got in the weave to block penetration of any more the next day, but it wasn't anywhere close to making it *transparent*.

That would be fantastic if all works out fine! But I couldn't get that section on my boat to wetout after the lower tack coat had previously cured. And how is one to wash amine from that cured tack batch when you've got essentially dry cloth on top yet? I don't mean to stir the issue up, but I've wondered what to do about this since the first time I had to order more epoxy after a close call on a taped seam, which did require grinding off the stuff that would no longer wetout at all.

I'm not even sure that what I'm describing is exactly the same situation with ozzyc, but on a larger scale.

ks

I am afraid it will be very difficult to wet out the glass that it "tacked" down. What weight glass are we taking about?

Hello Ozzy,

If you can post or link Joel and Jacques a couple of pictures to this thread from your blogspot, that may help evaluate the next step for you.

flickr.com may not allow linking to single picture files for remote display on another website, but here is a link to the picture *page* at the *opps, we ran out of epoxy* boundary...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/28758217@N00/62803513/

and the other side...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/28758217@N ... et-118742/

Showing the half you *finished*, and the half that only tacked to the precoat.

Maybe a close up of the unfinished half so the fibers can be seen so the support folks can see if and how much epoxy got into them?

The proverbial *just a thought*...

ks

Can't wait to see pictures of a completed GT23!

Not sure what the weight of the cloth is. I'll have to get with Greg and get back with you. I'll get some close-up shots of the boat within the next day or so, and post them so you can see and make recommendations.

I didn't find out what weight the cloth is, but it is biaxial if that helps.

I've also taken several close up pictures. These are pics are pretty high res and very close up. They may take a few minutes to load if you're not running broadband.

http://12.30.143.22/hbb/epoxy-close-up.jpg

http://12.30.143.22/hbb/epoxy-close-up2.jpg

http://12.30.143.22/hbb/epoxy-close-up3.jpg

http://12.30.143.22/hbb/epoxy-close-up4.jpg

http://12.30.143.22/hbb/epoxy-close-up5.jpg

http://12.30.143.22/hbb/epoxy-close-up6.jpg

http://12.30.143.22/hbb/epoxy-close-up7.jpg

Hey OzzyC,

It looks like 12 oz. I am only saying that because that's what the plans call for and it looks like the stuff I will be using as well. Sorry to see what you are up against. I put my bottom fiberglass on one sheet at a time, and almost started the 3rd sheet when I noticed that I did not have enough epoxy. Fortuneately I noticed and quit before I had any problems. I hope someone can tell you how to fix this without too much trouble.

My GT23 is now in bed for the winter. No more work until spring.

Cheers,

Bill

If you can get it to wet out, there should not be any problems. The larger white areas are going to be easy, its the spots that have been half way wetted out that will be diffucult to make right - you will have to really work the epoxy into the glass to wet out the dry fibers.

Shine wrote:If you can get it to wet out, there should not be any problems. The larger white areas are going to be easy, its the spots that have been half way wetted out that will be diffucult to make right - you will have to really work the epoxy into the glass to wet out the dry fibers.

I can handle that. Heck, I could have even handled a "You've got to scrap the back half of the cloth and start over." That was my worst-case scenario. A simple "you've gotta really work the epoxy" is a bonus answer for me. Thanks.

We got the cloth laid out; it didn't require us to cut off the area that was partially wet and it didn't require us to scrap any cloth. In short, we used a heat gun to soften the previously-cured epoxy, and weighted things down in the areas that had bubbles. We used a cold metal weight on the bubbles, which helped quick-cool the epoxy, and ensure that the bubbles stayed flat. After things were flattened, we used the gun to warm things up, and a little extra elbow grease.

In the end I think it'll work out nicely. As always, I've updated the blog. Feel free to check it out for a few pics and some more detail http://houseboatbuilder.blogspot.com. I'll take some more pics next weekend, after the epoxy has cured, and let you all know how it worked out.

good idea with the heat gun

The heat gun idea paid off. There are a few small areas where we have bubbles, and one or two small areas where the glass was slightly starved, but I am incredibly pleased with how well the heat gun idea worked.

In order to address the areas with bubbles, we are going to drill small holes into the bubbles, inject epoxy into the bubbles, and weight them down.

If you're interested in seeing pics of the work to date, you know what to do...
http://houseboatbuilder.blogspot.com

Be forewarned... today's post is a little off-topic. But since it's still technically part of "Greg's GT23 Blog", I'm still gonna post here, instead of the "anything else" forum.

For those of you who have been faithfully been following the blog, you may remember that I took a little diversion from the boatbuilding portion of the blog, and talked about how I've been using epoxy and fiberglass to repair the the tile in my shower. I've done more work there. If you're interested, head on over to http://houseboatbuilder.blogspot.com.

I've also been repainting my younger daughter's room, and I've got to say (without any humility whatsoever), that it's a really cool makeover. If you're interested in seeing it, you can check out my personal non-boating blog at http://ozzyc.blogspot.com.

Between these two projects and Christmas, I'm sure you can understand that Greg and I made no progress on the boat this week.

We laid some more glass yesterday, but I'm going to digress a bit.

You may remember in an earlier post that we had a couple of spots where the fiberglass didn't adhere to the plywood. Our initial plan was to drill small holes in these areas and fill them with epoxy. Greg changed his mind. Instead, he cut out these areas with a knife, and filled it with a mixture of epoxy and fiberglass filler. My camera batteries were dead, so I don't have any pics of this, but I will attempt to get some pics posted soon.

After the fiberglass filling, we did a little last-minute sanding, and laid fiberglass on one side. We've now got about two-thirds of the exterior completely fiberglassed. We still have one side, and both transoms to do, but that should go relatively quick.

We got the second side glassed, and it was our quickest job yet. Next we glass the transoms, a little more sanding, and then it's time for fairing and painting.

In case you're interested, I've posted a couple of links to other builders on my blog. They're not all stitch and glue builders, but their stories are interesting nonetheless.

http://houseboatbuilder.blogspot.com

The rear transom is glassed. Next week we plan to glass the front transom, and then we'll be done glassing the exterior. Then of course comes the tedious task of fairing.

We've found a way to lay two layers of glass simultaneously, which cuts down tremendously on the time required to lay the fiberglass, and I think we'll get a stronger bond as a result.

As always, I've posted a couple of pictures on my blog...

http://houseboatbuilder.blogspot.com

Are you interested in a couple of time-saving steps?
-Would you like to reduce the amount of fairing work you need to do?
-Would you like to reduce your epoxy-mixing labor?

If so, then check out the blog... http://houseboatbuilder.blogspot.com

**Disclaimer** I will not take credit for originating these ideas. Greg showed them to me, and said he ran across these labor-saving ideas on the internet. Heck, it's possible that he ran across the ideas here.

As expected, the fairing, sanding and rebuilding the edges is a long, drawn-out process. We have not forgotten about you, and we haven't slacked on the boat. If you would like to see our progress, feel free to zip over to the blog, at http://houseboatbuilder.blogspot.com.

If you have any questions, post them on the blog and mention that you were referred by this bateau forum. I will post the answers on the blog site, and here in the forum.

Hi Greg and Dave,

I have been following your build with interest because, as you may know, I am also building a GT23. Neet idea with the chines. Can you tell me why this is necessary? I was planing on leaving them rounded, like in the unmodified part of the 4th picture (from your blog). Do you know what the implication of this would be?

Cheers

Bill

Based on what Greg has said, the hard chines are necessary for the boat to plane correctly. If the edges are rounded, there is additional drag, which reduces the performance. If you don't plan to reach planing speeds, then rounded edges should be okay. Again though, I'm not the authority on this... we should get verification from the admins.

Dave

A small radius will not matter. Ideally. you want a sharp edge so the water "breaks" clean at the chine. On a larger radius, the water wants to follow up the sides of the boat - this adds drag and makes you wet.

This is off subject, but interesting....

In some semi displacement boats (like a traditional lobster boat) where the chines are quite round, something like 5" radius or more. You can get a lot of negative pressure on the sides when the water runs up and over the chine - imagine them as inverted airfoils with water flowing overtop. If the boat is pushed too fast, that negative pressure becomes severe suction.

Jacques and I saw a picture series of a lobster boat in a race, it hit a wake just right, forcing water up and over one side of the boat. This created enough suction that the boat did a barrel roll and landed upside down

Shine...

Based on what you're saying, it would be okay to not do sharp edges, but the performance will be better doing it our way. Is this assumption correct?

right. At the speed we are talking about on our boats - you probably would never know the difference in a perfectly sharp chine and one where you just rounded the edge and glassed over. When I refer to rounded chine, I mean a large radius. I will try to find some pictures help clear myself up.

Joel

I love google. here in an article about the very race I was talking about.......


http://www2.jsonline.com/news/nat/ap/au ... 082701.asp

Here's my next question then...

As you can see, we're doing the hard chines. With the progress we've made, it's definitely easier to finish the hard chines as opposed to sanding down and going with soft edges. Based on what you're saying, we will have less splash with the hard egdes, but there won't be any noticeable performance change. This would also mean that having the chines perfectly straight and sharp won't have any difference either, right?

what you are doing is better

I think your chines will be OK if you continue as you have been doing. There are a lot of welded aluminum boats with nice sharp chines.
Just call it a Kelp Cutter chine.

Thanks for the discussion, you just saved me more work!

Gubbs wrote:Thanks for the discussion, you just saved me more work!

Does that mean that you're going to skip the hard chines?

Since I did not know it was better in the first place, I doubt I will miss them! Shine seemed to indicate that although your way is better, it is ok to just use the rounded glass edges...

Cheers

Bill

OzzyC

If you are going to add a spray rail, placing it along the chine first could save some labor.

Ernie

ejohns wrote:OzzyC

If you are going to add a spray rail, placing it along the chine first could save some labor.

Ernie

Thanks for the hint. I talked to Greg the other day, and I suspect he'll be doing just that.

This whole boatbuilding adventure started a couple of years ago, when Greg and I built a couple of Nice Canoes. This year, as part of our annual Memorial Day boys' trip, we we took the canoes to the Turtle-Flambeau area in north-central Wisconsin.

We didn't just take the canoes though. We temporarily transformed the canoes into a redneck catamaran. Over the next several days, I will be posting the long version of the story on my blog http://houseboatbuilder.blogspot.com. It's quite the tale. If you're interested, feel free to drop by as the tale unfolds.

I haven't forgotten about you or the boat. We're still stuck in sanding and fairing hell. Check the blog http://houseboatbuilder.blogspot.com for my latest entry.

Gubbs, I haven't heard from you lately... where are you at on the boat?

We put in a bit of work over the weekend. As we talked about previously, Greg wants to make the chines completely sharp. Cool with me, but this slows things down. Today though, we got the chines rough-finished, and started tweaking things with quick fair.

In order to speed things up, I recommended sectioning things off. The port side is pretty much done to Greg's satisfaction, and we're focusing on the starboard chine. The problem is, this is slow... we can only work for an hour or two before we hit a stopping point. I suggested that we flow coat the port side and shoot a layer of primer, so we can keep making progress. This way, if we see something we missed on the port side, we can revisit it as we build up the starboard chine.

Your thoughts?

You can't rush epoxy. Just be patient. If you try and take to many short cuts it will kill you in the end. If he is as critical as you say then let it be. Take your time and do it right. You won't be sorry in the long run.

I'm taking it as a good sign that our sessions are getting progressively shorter, and that Greg is about ready to prime. It's hard to believe that four months have elapsed since we started working on the chines.

I finally took another pic of the boat today. Feel free to check it out at http://houseboatbuilder.blogspot.com

Anyone who's further along in the process than Greg and I are will understand where I'm coming from. I'm tired of sanding and fairing. I'm ready to say good enough and prime the hull to see if the boat really IS good enough.

Check my blog to see the latest picture, and please let me know your thoughts on my desire to prime. Are we ready?

http://houseboatbuilder.blogspot.com

Ozzy,

I've been watching your progress for a long time. It can be frustrating getting things perfect, and especially frustrating when you're working in partnership with someone and you have different standards or pressures working against you.

I don't know what help I can offer, except to say, I definately understand your frustration- it's a big boat and a big project. It can be tough working with even your best friend on anything. Still, the lessons of patience and tolerance can lead to some pretty stunning results in the end if you're up to the challenge.

I'm a big fan of having a plan, and sometimes a deadline, but I'm also a big fan of flexibility. Build in flexibility whenever you can, so if you set high expectations for yourself, you have a release valve and a way out so you can sleep at night and bring the same vigour to the next day's work.

Hang in there man, you're getting there.

-Dave

Thanks for the words of encouragement, MadRus.

I want to clarify things a bit. From my perspective, there's no tension between Greg and me on this project. We have the same vision for this boat... a high-quality watercraft that we built with our own hands. I know that this is ultimately his baby and I'm basically playing "Gilligan" to his "Skipper." He's a mechanical engineer and has done tons of research every step along the way. He's got a more developed vision than I do, and more knowledge and insight about how to achieve that vision.

At the same time, he's not autocratic. When I have an idea or disagree with his approach, I tell him what's on my mind and he listens. Sometimes we implement my thoughts, others we don't. When we went into this project, we knew we'd occasionally disagree. Since it's ultimately his boat, I've got no problems with doing what he wants and to his satisfaction. We really are doing this as a team; we're simply using the fact that it's his boat as the tiebreaker.

My frustration is merely that we've been stuck in the sanding and fairing stage for over seven months. Part of this is the pursuit of perfection, and part of this is because we're both family men who can only devote a few hours per week to this project. In the end, please don't think that my previous post was designed to imply that I'm frustrated with Greg, because that's not true. Mainly I'm illustrating, with my own personal experience, that building such a large boat carries its share of challenges and frustrations.

I would however, like to know if you guys think we should go ahead and prime. Since the primer is a high-build primer, I'm thinking that priming could serve two complimentary functions. It could fill in the miniscule imperfections, and it could expose larger flaws by making the boat a uniform color and sheen, allowing us to make small spot corrections, re-prime those spots, paint and then flip the boat. Whatcha think?

Sorry, maybe I was bringing a little too much of my own experience into the conversation there. I'm sure you guys are getting along fine and do good work with each other.

The thing is, high-build primer is expensive, so getting a good sanding done first will save you time and money.

That said, I would do just as you wrote, prime, take a look, and then work those areas that specifically need attention. I've had best results with two coats of the high build then sanding. You might try that misting thing Joel has been doing on the FS14 thread. It seems like a great way to really pick out the problem areas.

Before you put primer down...

1) Use straight edges with a light behind it to look for a fair surface. The light will show through between the hull and the straight edge if it is not fair.

2) Position a strong light close the hull surface. Step 6 or more feet away from the hull and look right down the side (block the light with your hand while you can still look down the hull). This will show many imperfections if they exist.

The above doesn't take very long and will tell you if you are ready.

Resist the urge to forge ahead if you have doubts that you are really ready for the next step.

Thanks Dan!

The guide coat technique is shown in our Stitch and Glue 101:
http://bateau2.com/content/view/128/28/
with pictures.
And also in this thread about the FS12:
http://gallery.bateau2.com/forum/viewto ... 8&start=15

Ideally, we should use pattern maker dye but cheap spray paint works well.

Also note the long board and the straight edge in the links above.

Thanks Jacques. I like the idea of doing one coat of primer and then using a contrasting color. There's no doubt in my mind that we're at that point.

Do you ever get tired of re-posting those links for people like me who don't continually RTFM?

Still plugging away. We've added sprayrails and our first coat of tinted epoxy.

http://houseboatbuilder.blogspot.com

Jacques,

Where should I set the water line on the GT23? The plans say 6" at 3000 lbs. I have built the boat heavy and plan to put a 125 or 150 hp motor + kicker on it with a bracket. I also plan on building the rest of the boat heavy with amenities, with the exception of the cabin sides and top, which will be foam. We used a laser level and set the line at 7" draft for now, but it looks to be somewhat shallow compared to the study plans (doesn't extend far enough toward the bow).

Cheers,

Greg

Still plugging away. The progress is slow and steady, frustrating and fun. Check out the latest picture http://houseboatbuilder.blogspot.com

Holy $h!+...

Greg and I painted last night!

Pictures please
Daddy

I might be wrong , but think the up to date pictures can be found here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/28758217@N ... et-118742/

You're close Smokie...

Here's a link that will take you to thumbnails...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ozzyc/sets/118742/

Here's a link that will give you a slideshow...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ozzyc/sets/118742/show/

I didn't expect to paint on Tuesday, so I didn't bring the camera. I'll definitely be taking it next time though and will update accordingly.

This is a big boat! I measured, I have enough room in the garage. Now I just need to have that help commitment from the bro-in-law and I think it might get started this fall! Ozzy, any idea on hours so far?? We are planning a more open deck boat version, rather than enclosed cabin (although I like the idea of a portable cabin on wheels on the way to/from the water...Hmm)

Smokie, you will need help for sure. I imagine that you could do it alone but great to have someone mixing, pulling a squeegee, helping with smooting out the cloth, it IS a big boat. We applied the first layer of three panels of cloth on the hull, three of us, and it took about 3 hours, maybe four. I could not have done that alone. I think that mixing is the most tiring.
Daddy

Smokie wrote:This is a big boat! I measured, I have enough room in the garage. Now I just need to have that help commitment from the bro-in-law and I think it might get started this fall! Ozzy, any idea on hours so far?? We are planning a more open deck boat version, rather than enclosed cabin (although I like the idea of a portable cabin on wheels on the way to/from the water...Hmm)

Hey Smokie, sorry for the slow response... I tend to check these forums out once per week or so...

I'm going to estimate that we have 600 elapsed hours, based on a single four-hour session, once per week, for just shy of three years. Double that for man-hours. Bear in mind though that Greg is a major perfectionist, and we have re-traced many of our steps in our quest for the ideal finish. I think that Gubbs could give you a better estimate, depending on how picky you want to be.

Ozzy, did you guys do the planing hull version or displacement hull?
Daddy

We're doing the planing hull. In addition to the completely flat bottom itself, Greg decided to construct perfectly sharp chines, which we both would have skipped in retrospect. The chines added several months of labor in and of themselves, and have made the entire process a little more difficult around that area of the boat.

Point noted, I will skip that part myself. BTW, what are you guys doing for power? I have been thinking about a jet drive a la boat in the recent issure of Wooden Boat Mag.
Daddy

That work you put in on the sharp chines is well worth it.

Any time you can get water to cleanly separate from the boat, you are increasing planing efficiency and decreasing wetted surface area on the boat. On top of that, it will also cause the boat to have a drier ride with less spray.

It was worth it, but you will have to have one with rounded chines next to it to see the difference.

Lookin forward to seeing it upright and with a cabin!

E

Got a couple of pics. Head on over to the blog...

http://houseboatbuilder.blogspot.com

For power, I bought a 1989 150 hp Evinrude off ebay for $2000. It is carbureted and is a gas hog but is very clean and runs great. I wanted something with carbs so that I can tinker with it if necessary.

I would have liked to get a new motor but couldn't justify it at this point. I figure I can burn about $8000 worth of gas and still be ahead. Maybe if the pollution regs get stricter around here I will upgrade. I am also planning on putting on a 9.9 hp kicker for trolling and backup.

I seriously thought about jet drive and I/O. I have built small block chevys and would have loved to draw upon that experience to build a cheap and powerful I/O. However, the bottom of the boat has to be a certain shape to work with a jet. They are also only fuel efficient if you are going high speed all the time. An I/O would still be an option but I believe Jacques has said it would be too heavy. Of course if you could get an aluminum block engine, you might be able to make it work. Think about the cockpit space too.

For all the above reasons, I went with an outboard + 30" aluminum bracket. I also got the bracket off ebay for $500. Good deals can be had if you are patient and are careful who you are dealing with. Paypal offers a $2,000 guarantee for sellers with excellent feedback, and I only bid on items with that guarantee.

Cheers,

Greg

Regarding the amount of time we have in the boat, I would realistically say cut Dave's estimate in half or 1/3. A lot of the time was spent on short sessions, smoking cigars, and general BS-ing.

Iowa Boy Greg wrote:Regarding the amount of time we have in the boat, I would realistically say cut Dave's estimate in half or 1/3. A lot of the time was spent on short sessions, smoking cigars, and general BS-ing.

True that!

Thanks for the Info!! I came to the realization that the garage door isn't wide enough--building an FS17 first anyway, so I will have to consider widening the garage at some point or finding a different venue. 2-300 hours sounds a lot less frightening!

Hey Smokie,

I would love to see pics of the Chenoa as you build. OzzyC and I built Nice Canoes. They work great for one person plus a ton of gear. It would be nice to see how the larger designs look and handle.

Greg

Smokie, lots of time spent working out the next move, sometines just daydreaming about what it will look like.
Oz, what can we do to get Gubbs to post those picks of his boat in the water? I am also wondering what he did for power, did he use a bracket?
Daddy

Daddy wrote:Oz, what can we do to get Gubbs to post those picks of his boat in the water? I am also wondering what he did for power, did he use a bracket?
Daddy

Apparently a simple "please post more pics" isn't sufficient...

Hey Oz, how are you guys coming with your build? I have put four runners on the bottom of mine, going to glass them i tomorrow.
Gubbs does not have an email address in his profile, I would really like to ask him a few questions like how the boat performed, hp, location of motor and so on, probalby he is having too much fun out on that boat to check his email anyway.
Daddy

We are doing some "final" sanding (in quotes because I can always find more problem spots). Hope to paint first finish coat this weekend.

We put on a single 8' skeg along the keel. No screws, just epoxy. Not glassed either. It is cypress, 2" x 2". There is also a 1/8" x 2" aluminum wear shoe screwed to it with stainless steel screws.

I havent really started fairing yet, just trying to fill the weave, trying different ratios of epoxy and wood flour.
Have you thought about a trailer yet?
Daddy

Iowa Boy Greg wrote:We are doing some "final" sanding (in quotes because I can always find more problem spots).

Yes he can!!

Daddy wrote:I haven't really started fairing yet, just trying to fill the weave, trying different ratios of epoxy and wood flour.
Have you thought about a trailer yet?

Greg's though about a trailer... he's got a neighbor selling a trailer that may work. He's asked Gubbs about trailering as well, but I don't remember the conversation. The thing is, we're still several months away from needing a trailer.

I missed out on a great used trailer that would have been ideal for this boat because it came on the market before I had decided on the GT build and I thought it too big Ah well, there will be another.
Daddy

Yes! Greg has said "good enough." We started laying the final coat of paint on the hull. Check out the blog. (Link below)

The blog has a link to the pics we snapped as well (courtesy of the little Ozzlet).

Link
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V

Looking great Oz, just wondering, where do u guys reckon the water line to be?
Daddy

We suspect it will be somewhere around where the white and red paint come together. Since it won't be exact, Greg plans to do a boot stripe.

The reason I asked was that I plan to paint only the bottom of the hull before flipping and wondered how you arrived at that line?
You guys are an inspiration, I hpe I can do as well. Finished glassing my runners today, not crazy about the results, not happy with my fillets, a bit saggy but finally got it good nuf
Daddy

Daddy wrote:The reason I asked was that I plan to paint only the bottom of the hull before flipping and wondered how you arrived at that line?
You guys are an inspiration, I hpe I can do as well. Finished glassing my runners today, not crazy about the results, not happy with my fillets, a bit saggy but finally got it good nuf
Daddy

If I remember correctly, the plans say how deep the draft is. I want to say three inches. Greg did some calculations and modified the line based on expected changes in weight distribution, and we shot a line from there, using a laser level.

Pardon me for being amused that you're using us as inspiration. We've been at this for almost three years now. It's a long, slow process. And being in the situation, it's hard for me to consider myself as anyone's inspiration. But thanks for the vote of confidence.

I believe the "base" water line on the plans is 6". Since we are building a heavy version (big motor, bracket, extra fiberglass/epoxy), I decided to put the waterline at 7". At least that's where I think it is...

We used a laser to set the line, and I remember that it seemed to be off somewhat compared to the plans and renderings. The line seemed to go about 2/3 the length of the craft on the latter, while ours was less than that. Eventually decided that, wherever we put it, it will be wrong, so just plan to paint a boot stripe after it is in the water for a while.

The big thing I learned about trailering this beast is that it will not fit between the wheels of a normal boat trailer. So, you have to make provisions for setting it above the wheels. That's what Gubbs did. Not ideal, but you do what you gotta. For this reason, I will be getting a dual axle trailer with wheels that are not too big.

G

Well, I try to amuse whenever possible LOL
I know what you mean, its all relevant, you guys and Gubbs are forging the path for me. I think you are right about your water line being off a bit, when I looked at one of your pictures I thought the red paint did not go far enough, when I look at the provile of the boat in one of the drawings the water line seems to go all the way to a line directly donw from the face of the forward bulkhead which is about 2/3 the lenth of the boat. From there the sheer sweeps up a bit and the hull seems to be clear of the water at that point. We will both know where it is once we splash. I still wish there was some way to get ahold of Gubbs as he has "been there".
Daddy

Gubbs, Ozzy, Greg, what kind of progress? I am doing the (I hope) final fairing on the hull before I give it a coat of s3 high build primer, sand, paint and then flip! Finally have some time off as we shut down one job I have been working on.
Gubbs, I know you said you were not going to use trim tabs but have you looked at the Smart Tabs? I Not too expensive and low tech. just bet you will have smoother hole shots with them.
Daddy

Daddy,

Bottom is painted and done. We need to do a final 1-2 coats on the sides and transoms. Currently working on building a frame around it to use for rolling. Just got a framing nailer so that should go fast. However, there is about a foot of snow in my driveway right now so it aint goin nowhere for a while.

The frame I am building will incorporate a form/support for the bottom of the boat, as I don't have a trailer yet. Hmm, maybe I should just go trailer shopping instead? Something to consider. Do you have a trailer or are you shopping for one? Which brands/sizes are you looking at? I plan to use bunks and will customize it to fit the boat with a little welding here and there.

Regards,

Greg

hi Greg, no I have not thought about a trailer. The way my shop is set up I will use a come-a-long with an eye bolt set in each transom and then spin it over right in place. It has worked nicely before but with somwwhat smaller boats so I'll keep my fingers crossed. I will build a cradle first, set it aside and then flip that boat. Bunks sound like the way to go, I'll be interested to see what you come up with.
BTW, I will try to post a scan of the way I will mount the cabin as soon as my wife, the computer literate one, returns from a visit with her folks. I stayed home, Japan is just too far away from my boat for me.
Daddy

Got the rollover frame/cradle part way done. Quick work with the nail gun. Hope to roll soon when the snow melts off the driveway. Plan on using a tall A-frame with a block and tackle.

Daddy,

I did some old fashioned "cut and paste" to consider your aft cabin idea. I have to say, it doesn't look as bad as I thought it might. I am going to mull this one over for a while and consider the + and - of each. If you put some stanchions/railings on the bow, it looks kind of like a rear pilothouse trawler (hull shape notwithstanding, of course). Definitely more of a work boat look. Just add a mast and outriggers up front and the illusion is complete!



Greg

There are literally HUNDREDS of those style of boats cruising the San Juans/Puget Sound/Gulf islands. That is the workboat of choice in the smaller waters, esp for ferrying things like 4 wheelers to remote camps.

E

Greg, thank you for doing that, I still have not got the smarts to post my scan which is very similar except for the bow pulpit. I also plan to extend the roof of the cabin out maybe as far as where the stringers step up or maybe only about four feet. Personally I love the look and since the LCB is about 48 inches in front of the transom it makes perfect sense to have the cabin right over it. I have some other ideas too, like extending the sole forward between the inner two stringers to make cockpit seating up in the bow. I'll have to give that more thought though. When I get her flipped I can mock up the cabin etc and sit and think for a while. Glad you are making progress, I'll try to catch up. I know why it's going so slow, I haven't decided on a name. A friend of mine saw it for the first time ans said, "That's a mighty big punt".
Daddy

Daddy wrote:A friend of mine saw it for the first time ans said, "That's a mighty big punt".

Hmmm... Big Punt.... maybe that's a good name for her.

Getting closer and running out of blended filler, that stuff works great. I like it better than quick fair, certainly less expensive. Just a little more sanding, where have I heard that before.
Big Punt, I'll add that to the list. Do you remember Pogo comics? That little possum had a punt that he and the alligator rowed around in the swamp. Thought that boat's name might be a good one 'til I checked and found that it had a different name each time they showed it, oh well.
Daddy

Here are the negatives I have been able to come up with so far for the cab aft version:

1) Passengers sitting outside when underway will get more spray.

2) When anchored from the bow, passengers in front will get all the wind (could be a positive at times)

3) If all the passengers are outside the cabin (when not underway), the craft may be bow heavy.

4) The craft may windvane more when maneuvering.


On the positive side, I see:

1) The outside lounge area is all contiguous.

2) Passengers sitting outside can more easily see where the craft is going.

3) Front area works well for carrying large/long cargo, such as bikes or a small canoe.


Greg

Thanks for your thoughts on the aft cabin version. I wonder what the designer might have to say about your thoughts.

1. Not sure about that, Gubbs said he never took water over the bow, spray rails might take care of that.
2. Thats true.
3. Hard to say about 3, may not matter
4.I actually think the cabin aft might help minimize that because the area of greatest windage will be closer to the power source

Positives
1. I agree that is a bonus
2. I agree
3. Agree

Daddy

I think the aft cabin idea is kind of cool. Just to clarify, however, when I said I never took water over the bow, I mean't in wave form. when it was rough out I did get quite a bit of spray at times. This is in addition to water I took on through the too large hole I made in the bow transom for my anchor rope. That being said, when its rough out most people will stay in the cabin. There was not much spray(none) when it wasn't rough out.

cheers

Thanks for the clarification Gubbs, you must be getting anxious to get that beauty back in the water. Have you done any work on it this winter,did you find a place to store it inside, not outside near any trees?
I am putting mine in the water this spring even if it is only a bare hull with a couple of lawn chairs and a trolling motor!
Daddy
BTW I have started a blog with a couple of pictures on it. I will post the address with my next posting

hey Greg, Ozzy and Gubbs, check out my blog, two coats of paint on the bottom this weekend and I'm gonna flippit !!!
http://cruisinghouseboat.blogspot.com/
Daddy

Wow, nice shop you got there Daddy. Looks like you will be passing us up soon. I have been down with the flu this week, so nothing got done. Have you decided what materials you are going to use for the cabin sides and roof? I originally wanted to do the corecell composite but I really need to save some money. I like what Gubbs did with the building center foam. I realize it does not have much shear strength. I am wondering if this is good enough for "normal" use. Would it eventually come apart because of normal hull flexing and pounding? Or is it OK for everything but huge waves crashing into it repeatedly?

Something to ponder. I too hope to have my craft in the water this year, although it may be summer or fall.

Greg

Greg,
Thanks for the kind words. The only trouble with the shop is it was built to work on much smaller boats. This one pretty much fills the space. I have decided to use 3/8 for the cabin sides and roof and to beef it up in the corners and maybe between windows with a 1" x1" verticle support. I will probably put in some kind of laminated roof beams, nothing too big or heavy. Jacques recommends, if I remember right, 1/4 for the cabin sides and roof, that just seems to light to me but guess it would work. I'll give it more thought. I'm sure the foam core is strong enough but I dont want the expense either.
I am going to wash down the hull this afternoon to get any dust off and then try to get two coats of paint on this weekned. Then I will flip it using a system I have in my shop with two come-a-longs at each end of the hull from the ceiling into eyebolts, lift it and spin it. Hopefully, it works on smaller boats.
Sorry to hear you have the flu, no fun at all.
Daddy

Ozzy, Greg, what up? Any progress?
Daddy

Daddy wrote:Ozzy, Greg, what up? Any progress?
Daddy

Hey Daddy, sorry for the really slow response. I joined the ranks of the unemployed early February. I've been looking for a job, but have been equally busy being a house husband. Fortunately, I really enjoy being a kept man, and since Mrs. Ozzy makes a good living, we're not really hurting for money.

Greg and I are still plugging away at the boat, but we're at the 'hurry up and wait' stage. There's not a whole lot to do until we get her flipped. Greg's garage isn't tall enough to do an indoor flip, and he's got too much snow and ice in the driveway to drag the boat out right now.

With the weather warming up, we're hoping to flip it this weekend. Then we can kick things into high gear again and do some more real construction. Man, I'm glad we've left all of that sanding and fairing behind us (for now)!

Oz, great to hear from you, I have flipped (literally) and have done my stringers and frames and now am finishing up the cleats or whatever the pieces of 3/4 x 3/4 the we attach to the frames and stringers are called. They are a PITA unless you have an extra pair of hands but going along OK. I am hoping to get the sole down so that I can start on the cabin. That is one big boat I tell ya!
Good luck with your flip, its not as heavy as it looks.....
Daddy

We flipped her yesterday. Here's a link to a video I posted on YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsNZ7Y20dj4

Wow Oz, that sure looked like fun Now I will have to worry about you guys catching up to me again. You are in for a real treat now, glassing in the stringers, frames, doing cleats, oh boy! Takes a while, but quicker with an extra set of hands.
Daddy

Yessir... looking forward to it.

Nice.
As you discovered, pipes are more reliable than casters.
You can roll big boats on steel pipes.

Oz, as you know I am going to move my cabin back almost to the transom. I am leaving a space in the stern for a 2 foot x beam after cockpit, and going to hang the motor (25 hp Honda 4 stroke) on a bracket. I also raised the foredeck up 5 inches to get the scuppers up higher so now there will be no step out to the after cockpit but a 5 inch step up to the fore cockpit. Finished gluing in all of the millions of additions to the top edge of stringers and frames and along the outside edge of where the deck will go, glad you guys are back in the game.
Daddy

Jacques... Yes, we definitely got more mileage from the pipes than from the casters. The thing is, we needed to try the casters because we needed to rotate the boat 90 degrees in order to get the boat flipped. Fortunately, the casters held long enough to accomplish this.

Daddy... We're glad to be back in business as well. Tonight we plan to re-level the boat and shore up the framing, so the deck is at the proper level. Wish us luck.

Sure thing Oz, get her level and start glassing in those stringers. Best thing is that you wont have to do any sanding or fairing down thee as it will never see the light of day, unless you have a hatch or two for access. Oz if you havent tried using a tray to wet out your tape it really helps speed things up esp if there are two of you, one wetting out and one setting the tape. A picture of one on my blog and also on a thread by Spokaloo.
Daddy

Thanks for the advice. We rigged up an epoxy tray early on, and I'm sure it will see a lot of use in the very near future.

Another session done... a few hours closer to having a boat. Last weekend, Greg yanked the stringers and taped the seams on the front transom and we taped the rear transom last night.

While we prepped the transom, my younger daughter cruised around the empty hull in her heelys. That was when I realized how big this boat actually is. I took a video of her and posted it on youtube. Feel free to check it out at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emSqDOMqaPk

Greg and I (mostly Greg) placed and fit the stringers and frame pieces. Next comes securing them. Photos on the blog coming soon.

hey guys, go get 'em. Tape in those frames and stringers. You will see in the lamination notes that Jacques does not mention taping in the frames but in a forum query he told me one layer on each side of the stringers. Very tedious but with two people, one wetting out in a tray and one laying up you will find it should go very fast. We are enjoying our boat, I would still like to get another coat of paint on her decks but it wont stop raining.
Daddy

Hey Daddy,

It's great to see the finished product. The last post on your blog said that you did some ballast work. Are you happy with the way it floats now??

We've tacked the stringers in, and we're taping them down over the next few weeks. The thing is, Greg's in the process of moving and I'm only able to help every other week for a while. Just when we thought we could make some rapid progress, life once again gets in the way. Oh well... We've been at this for over two years. We realized long ago that it's not just about getting the boat on the water, it's primarily about two friends hanging out, and this certainly helps us do that.

Hey guys, great to hear from you. Yes, the ballast seems to help a lot well over 370 pounds. As you could see from my blog I moved the cabin back til it was about 30 inches in front of the transom. I put the ballast right up against the transom along with gas tank and batteries. It is, at best, just self bailing. Meaning the deck is dead level. I would be a bit happier if it had more pitch towards the stern, but it works now, no big puddle forward of the scuppers.
I still nee to build the interior furniture, galley, built in helm seat and all but that can wait until this fall, also am planning on jazzing up the paint job a little bit too.
Glad to hear you are making progress, and best of all enjoying the build and hanging out. Keep us posted, think about how you will handle the trim issue and send a pic now and then
Daddy

We're still not dead.

We've been plugging away at getting the stringers in place. Greg's moving in a little over a month, so that's getting in the way too.

hey Oz, pulled my boat today, Marina closes on the 10th, figured today was a good day, came out nicely, stringers helped center the boat on the trailer. bunks just an inch or so from the stringers. No probs with marking the waterline now, crud all around, going to put magic marker and then was off the crud. Glad your still vertical.
Daddy

Sorry to hear that you're done for the year, Daddy. Hope you thoroughly enjoyed your water time. Love the crud and magic marker idea. I suspect Greg will end up doing the same thing.

Greg's moving in the next few weeks, so our progress is even slower than usual. The blog will give a bit more details so feel free to drop on over.

One thing I didn't mention was that Greg and I moved the boat from its cradle to a trailer for the move to its new construction site. It was slow going but smooth. We accomplished this by moving the cradled boat from the garage to the driveway on a series of pipes. We also had to manage a tight 90-degree turn as we pulled it from the driveway. We used an electric winch to reduce the amount of manpower required for the job.

Next, we used the same winch to pull the boat onto the trailer. We liberally sprayed the boat's bunks and the bottom of the boat with lubricant and pulled the boat on, cutting the boat's cradle apart as we inched the boat onto the trailer. Again, it was slow-going but smooth.

Good luck with the move, what kind of trailer did you get? I am getting ready to start another boat, will really take my time with this one, plan to do my version of Nina, have just got another project boat out of my shop so can start this one soon. I will finish the interior of FESTIVUS when srping comes and use it again next summer. I wont rush LILLY ANNE.
Get that boat on the water for next summer!!
Daddy

Sounds like you're REALLY into building boats. Maybe you should do it for profit.

Greg told me what kind of trailer he got, but I had a couple of beers in me and can't remember.

I told him that I want to get back to the boat... we need to get some fiberglass and epoxy all over his new garage in order to break it in But before we do boat work, we need to put up shelves in the garage. It never ends

Great to hear you are still alive, is there a spring launch in your future? Spring 1009 that is
Daddy

Somehow I doubt a spring launch will happen. Maybe you can come to our neck of the woods and show us how it's done.

I guess the only way to finish it is to finish it. My shop is right next to my house so it is easy to fit in a bit here and there every day, plus of course I set my own hours since I am self employed. Wish I could give you a hand. Have a great holiday
Daddy

We will definitely need to work on it. We've tried to get the boat to build itself, but it's been very consistent in it's stubborn refusal to do so.

Merry Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, Voodoo Day, etc, Daddy.