Boat Builder Central - Builder Forums

Posted: **Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:59 pm**

Well guys, I'm finally starting the real boat!

Last year I built a 1:10 scale model of the boat to see how it all fits together -

More images of this model can be found at :http://gallery.bateau2.com/thumbnails.php?album=287

Last Thursday I took delivery of a load of marine ply...

...which at some point I am hoping will become a BOAT!!!

I will keep adding pictures to the gallery for "Jack-a-Doodle" (I think this it what the boat will be called) in the gallery at:
http://gallery.bateau2.com/index.php?cat=12964

I will keep in touch.

Wobbly.

Posted: **Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:10 pm**

Looks like you are all set . . . . keep us posted with your progress!

Posted: **Thu Apr 21, 2005 10:44 pm**

That looks like excellent work on the model. I wish I could make one of those. Can you describe how you did it (if you have the time and inclination). How long did that take?

Posted: **Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:58 am**

Steve_MA wrote:That looks like excellent work on the model. I wish I could make one of those. Can you describe how you did it (if you have the time and inclination). How long did that take?

Steve, thanks for your comments...

I basically followed the original plans and construction technique. I re-drew the plans on a computer (my plans are metric, so I just added a decimal point before the last digit e.g. 76mm becomes 7.6mm). I'm actually finding marking out the full-size plans onto the ply easier than the computer transfer.

The only deviation from full size was the order of doing the joining. I started with the transom, added the motorwell sides and bottom, then frame E to give a stiff box at the rear to start joining hull panels to. In other words I never made a mould for the hull: the panels formed the shape quite naturally when bent to join the edges. I will add a couple of images later that will illustrate this quite clearly.

The bottom panels went on first, using super-glue to "stitch" the keel before joining with glass and epoxy. All still very flexible at this point.

I then super-glue stitched the frames to the bottom panels, to mould the sides around. They got broken out later to enable me to seal the inside. There are more pix in the album now.

Then the lower sides, followed by upper sides. All seams were glassed with a strip about 10mm wide, inside and out, as per full size (although only one layer) after which internal frames were added back in to the structure. I was still a bit concerned with the flexibility of the structure at his stage.

Next, the whole of the bottom and small overlap onto the lower side was glassed (one layer). I have added an image of this to my album. After that I added the deck and the entire structure "suddenly" become extremely rigid and strong. A sigh of relief.

The decking effect is made of small 0.2x5mm wood strips, spot super-glued in place and then painted over with epoxy. I'm still undecided if I am going to repeat this on the full size boat, but I would like to. It depends on whether I can find suitable wood that won't add too much weight and if I have the inclination (and time as I'm on a summer deadline due to this all being built outdoors!) when that point arrives.

The entire boat is put together using 0.3mm and 0.8mm plywood from my local model shop.

The fairing was done with a hi-fill primer aerosol spray (model shop again), sanded, then sprayed with model enamel, sanded and polished (still haven't finished that to my satisfaction). Now, when I look at and feel the hull, it actually seems like it's moulded in plastic.

All done, I suppose I spent about a year putting it together, restricted mainly by having to wait for epoxy to set on every join before proceeding to the next one, and not being able to work on it indoors during the winter. It would be nice to have a workshop, but space is scarce for those kind of luxuries over here.

I hope this is all clear enough, but any other questions, feel free to ask. I know I'm going to be posting plenty of questions myself as the real boat goes together.

Regards,

Wobbly

Posted: **Fri Apr 22, 2005 3:49 pm**

WobblyLegs,

Your C17 model looks wonderful. I'm impressed with the level of detail you went to, like glass and epoxy of the joints.

One suggestion for your cockpit decking in case you can't find suitable planking. Jacques sells marine ply with the outside layer of teak. You could use this and route grooves to give it the look of planking.

George

Posted: **Fri Apr 22, 2005 6:30 pm**

glcost wrote:I'm impressed with the level of detail you went to, like glass and epoxy of the joints.

Thanks George,

I really just wanted to see how it all went together, using the same techniques as the full size boat, and hopefully it will be strong enough to run a REALLY fast RC motor on! As it progressed, it just seemed natural to try and make it look nice.

BTW, I can grab the bow and stern of this little thing in my hands and try to twist or bend it: not possible!! Credit to the designer!

glcost wrote:One suggestion for your cockpit decking in case you can't find suitable planking. Jacques sells marine ply with the outside layer of teak. You could use this and route grooves to give it the look of planking.

George

I saw that on the site, but he's in Florida and I'm in UK, so not really practical. I'm not actually too worried about the looks of the boat inside the cockpit (probably paint it white there), but thinking of doing the upper-deck in this style.

Regards,

Wobbly

Posted: **Fri Apr 22, 2005 8:17 pm**

Yeah, I found building the model made me pay close attention to all the details of the plans and building process, although I skipped the glass and epoxy. Something I wanted to do before taking on the full scale project, plus I immensely enjoyed building the model.

I saw you are in London and assumed Jacques' European branch would carry the same marine ply, but looking at the site I don't see it.

http://europe.boatbuildercentral.com/index.php

Also, most of the exotic marine ply comes from Europe. The okuome I bought came from Greece and France.

Anyhow, it was just a thought I had for mimicking the look of wood boards without adding weight.

Posted: **Sun Apr 24, 2005 7:54 am**

glcost wrote:Anyhow, it was just a thought I had for mimicking the look of wood boards without adding weight.

Thanks for the idea, George. I was thinking of laying thin strips side by side to create the effect, but after thinking a bit about your suggestion of routing out through a teak finished ply, perhaps it might be easier for me to laminate a thin veneer and the make grooves afterwards for the decking effect.

Like I said earlier, I'll decide when the time comes. There is still an awful lot to do before then.

Wobbly

Posted: **Sun Apr 24, 2005 11:52 am**

You can also by ply that looks like planking. www.boulterplywood.com has teak and holly ply that isnt totally out of sight price wise. I dont know what you can get where you are.

Thanks for the explanation on how you built your model. I am thinking of building a C17 one day and thought i might try it myself, but i can see it would be a big job.

Posted: **Sun Apr 24, 2005 2:44 pm**

Well, I have now measured all the 9mm ply (10mm on the plans) except for the stringers. I was hoping to cut it all this weekend, but it rained all Saturday, and the weather was so good this morning that we had to go out for a nice 100mph bike ride!!! Oops.

I have changed the nesting supplied, as I wanted to create frames that were all going to be used later in one piece. See the pic, with explanation under:

The supplied nesting was 10 sheets of ply, which meant that frame D was split into 3 pieces, and frame C was bisected vertically. I felt that by adding one more sheet of wood, I could split frame C at the deck line horizontally (which means I can build the hull closer to the ground), and keep frame D as one piece for the moulding (cabin side to be cut out of it later).

Personally, it's a small cost with a big ease-of-use advantage for one extra sheet of plywood.

Also, it leaves me with quite a lot of large off-cuts to use later for building a console and other little bits of woodwork that I'm sure to encounter.

Anyway, hopefully I will be able to start cutting all this wood during the week and next weekend, hoping to be able to set up the mould framework by the end of the weekend (it's a 3-day weekend for us here!).

More to follow, I'm sure,

Wobbly

Posted: **Tue May 03, 2005 6:51 am**

Well, a busy weekend for me.

I have managed to cut all my 9mm panels (with the exception of one cabin side which will come out of frame D after rollover), and the stringers.

I've left the stringers for last as I want to laminate some of the longer lengths of off-cuts together so that I can measure (and cut) them as one piece instead of trying to get everything to fit together later. It makes sense to me...

So far the only error I found was when I laid the two motorwell sides together to match them, and found that I had measured one sloping upwards towards the transom and one sloping downward towards the transom.

So, not a panic, as I have lots of large off-cuts, and was able to cut a new one without a problem.

I only hope I haven't made any other errors in measuring.

If the weather holds (thunder showers predicted for today!) I'm hoping to laminate what will become the stringers tonight and cut them tomorrow or the next day, and also laminate all four transom pieces before the weekend, leaving me ready to begin building the mould on the weekend.

As before, I have uploaded some more pic's in my C17 album.
http://gallery.bateau2.com/thumbnails.php?album=286

Wobbly.

Posted: **Thu May 05, 2005 5:48 pm**

Well, I had to wait a couple of days as the weather isn't co-operating, but I have managed to laminate the stringer wood tonight.

http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userp ... 00x400.jpg

I have decided that it's probably better not to post pic's of everything I do here, so I'll keep the pic's in the thread to major development (like the next one hopefully will be the frames/mould), and just put links to the "minor" pic's (which are in my gallery).

Posted: **Thu May 05, 2005 8:24 pm**

So far the only error I found was when I laid the two motorwell sides together to match them, and found that I had measured one sloping upwards towards the transom and one sloping downward towards the transom.

Just a suggestion for anytime you are cutting mirror image pieces. Stack the two pieces together, secure with clamps or screws, then cut as one piece. They will always match, you only have to lay it out once and cut it once.

Posted: **Sun May 08, 2005 2:54 pm**

So, this weekend has been a little more relaxing, but still keeping ahead of my schedule.

Stringers laminated, measured and cut, in that order, then notches cut. Followed by notches cut into frames "C," "D" and "E."

I had to check whether they all fit:

It's also the first real indication of the size of the boat that I'm building. Somehow a tape across the ground showing 17 feet doesn't mean anything!

I had planned on laminating the transom, but got hit by a thunder-storm with hail like I have never seen (in England) before… (20 minutes after this pic was taken, the sky was black. Unbelievable!).

More pic's in the gallery as usual.

Posted: **Wed May 11, 2005 9:57 pm**

WobblyLegs wrote:So, this weekend has been a little more relaxing, but still keeping ahead of my schedule.

Stringers laminated, measured and cut, in that order, then notches cut. Followed by notches cut into frames "C," "D" and "E."

I had to check whether they all fit:

More pic's in the gallery as usual.

Wobbleylegs, I posted earlier to your thread in a differrent category but I didn't get your response. This is the perfect one that I really wanted.

I'm now waiting on my Pre-Cut Plywood Kit to begin building my OB17. While waiting, I was practicing notch cutting using my table saw and jig saw (I do have a Bandsaw, but its still in the box). Both tools did not give me the quality of notch cut that I was looking for. I had to use my wood chisel on one or two, and fine trim some other notch cuts due to undercuts, and splinters. My question to you is HOW DID YOU GET SUCH PERFECT LOOKING NOTCHES for those frames and stringers? What tool(s) did you use and how did you use them? Woodworking is not my best suite and the only project that I've ever built in my life was birdhouses.

Any instructions or details on how you did yours would be greatly appreciated.

If you would like, you can email me the information, but any details on cutting those notches correctly would be of great help to me. I've use masking tape to reduce the splinters but I still have a poor quality cut notch when I finish cutting. Whether it be on my table saw, which causes an overcut. I have a general purpose blade (60 tooth blade) on my table saw and my Jig Saw has an all-purpose blade that can be used for cutting Plywood. The Table Saw is a Craftsman, the Jig Saw is Black & Decker and my BandSaw is a Delta (which I haven't used yet).

Regards,

BillTwo

Posted: **Thu May 12, 2005 4:39 am**

BillTwo wrote:HOW DID YOU GET SUCH PERFECT LOOKING NOTCHES for those frames and stringers? What tool(s) did you use and how did you use them?

Hi BillTwo,

Sorry, I never saw your question in the other thread (once I had an answer for that one I kinda forgot it was there, and didn't have a "notifier").

Regarding the notches, I measured the widths to EXACTLY 9mm on the stringers and 18mm on the frames (stringers are 2 x 9mm ply). My stringers are 122mm high so I made the 60mm deep on the stringers which turned out to give me 62mm to be cut out of the frames.

As to cutting, I used a jigsaw, taking it slowly and making sure that the measured line stayed on the centre of the blade (i.e. taking out about 1mm [half the blade width] or so of wood either side of the line). Doing the end of the notch was a bit crude: after cutting each side of the notch to full depth, I started about 2/3rds of the way in on one cut and cut a curve heading towards the end of the other cut. I then cut straight in to the line of the notch-end repeatedly and SLOWLY shaving away the edge of that curve, basically using the jigsaw as a "file" to square off the end.

Does this make sense?

The notches are NOT a tight fit which is the way it needs to be. You need some space for epoxy to glue the frames to the stringers at a later stage. In my case I'm guessing at just under 1mm on either side as my jigsaw blade cuts a width somewhere between 1 and 2mm or so.

I'm using a plain "high-speed" cutting blade, and am getting some splinters as you do, but they are small and I just brush them off (it's all getting covered eventually).

I hope this all helps, but I'm really not the expert on this forum. I'm basically working out how to do stuff as I get to it. I seem to be improving though

Posted: **Thu May 12, 2005 8:58 am**

As he said, you dont want the joints to be tight..you want epoxy to get in there. Almost any mess you make at this point with the saw can be fixed with epoxy...so long you dont cut the stringer in half

I think the biggest headache might be if you cut the nothes too deep. But even there you could use a clamp/wood block to keep it at the right height and tab it with epoxy.

Posted: **Thu May 12, 2005 11:37 am**

WobblyLegs wrote: Hi BillTwo,

As to cutting, I used a jigsaw, taking it slowly and making sure that the measured line stayed on the centre of the blade (i.e. taking out about 1mm [half the blade width] or so of wood either side of the line). Doing the end of the notch was a bit crude: after cutting each side of the notch to full depth, I started about 2/3rds of the way in on one cut and cut a curve heading towards the end of the other cut. I then cut straight in to the line of the notch-end repeatedly and SLOWLY shaving away the edge of that curve, basically using the jigsaw as a "file" to square off the end.

Does this make sense?

The notches are NOT a tight fit which is the way it needs to be. You need some space for epoxy to glue the frames to the stringers at a later stage. In my case I'm guessing at just under 1mm on either side as my jigsaw blade cuts a width somewhere between 1 and 2mm or so.

I'm using a plain "high-speed" cutting blade, and am getting some splinters as you do, but they are small and I just brush them off (it's all getting covered eventually).

I hope this all helps, but I'm really not the expert on this forum. I'm basically working out how to do stuff as I get to it. I seem to be improving though

Thanks Wobblylegs, that's just the input that I needed. When you are a novice at something and you try to do those things that you haven't done before, its always great to get that experienced help you need to keep you going in the right direction.

As I indicated before, I was practicing with two different tools to cut notches; using a Table Saw and then a Jig Saw. Now I just have to improve on using my Jig Saw. Every thing that you explained to me made sense. Also, it jogged my memory about gaps are good - especially for epoxy, as long as its within the given tolerances. I was trying to make a near tight fit less than 2mm. My gaps were coming out around 5-6mm. In terms of US measurement, I want to keep my cuts down to 1/8 inch or less but not so tight as to defeat the epoxy glue.

Thank you so very much for your input and I too will post some more of my pictures on the Gallery as soon as I have something to Post. Currently it's just a model concept that I plan on incorporating on the OB17 once I get my Pre-Cut Plywood delivered. I can be searched on the Builder Galleries under "OB17".

Steve, thanks for your input also. I will keep a close eye on my gaps when doing my Stitch and Glue process.

Regards,

BillTwo

Posted: **Thu May 12, 2005 11:54 am**

BillTwo wrote:Also, it jogged my memory about gaps are good - especially for epoxy, as long as its within the given tolerances. I was trying to make a near tight fit less than 2mm. My gaps were coming out around 5-6mm. In terms of US measurement, I want to keep my cuts down to 1/8 inch or less but not so tight as to defeat the epoxy glue.

Hello again BillTwo,

I seem to recall reading somewhere (either on the Bateau site, or in my plans) the the gap must be no more than 1/8 in TOTAL, so only 1/16 on each side (remember we're talking notches here - other parts of the boat allow bigger gaps). I've been looking at some of the tutorials since my first reply, and they suggest cutting with your blade on the outside edge of the line.

Have a look here:
http://bateau2.com/content/view/77/28/

You'll get better with the saw as you progress - I'd cut all my 9mm before doing the notches, and am now confident enough to cut most curves to within about 1mm (1/16?) of my line. When I started I was about 3-5mm out.

Good luck.

W.

Posted: **Thu May 12, 2005 2:02 pm**

Hi BillTwo,

As to cutting, I used a jigsaw, taking it slowly and making sure that the measured line stayed on the centre of the blade (i.e. taking out about 1mm [half the blade width] or so of wood either side of the line). Doing the end of the notch was a bit crude: after cutting each side of the notch to full depth, I started about 2/3rds of the way in on one cut and cut a curve heading towards the end of the other cut. I then cut straight in to the line of the notch-end repeatedly and SLOWLY shaving away the edge of that curve, basically using the jigsaw as a "file" to square off the end.

That's one way to do it. Here's another......drill a hole slightly larger than the jig saw blade just inside one of the corners. Make your first cut to the corner with the hole, then use the hole to turn the saw 90 degrees to make the back cut.

As to splintering, the plywood will splinter pretty bad cutting cross grain. To prevent this, put down a strip of masking tape where you will cut, lay out the line on the tape then cut with the tape in place. No splinters.

Posted: **Thu May 12, 2005 5:14 pm**

WobblyLegs wrote:
BillTwo wrote:
Have a look here:
http://bateau2.com/content/view/77/28/

You'll get better with the saw as you progress - I'd cut all my 6mm before doing the notches, and am now confident enough to cut most curves to within about 1mm (1/16?) of my line. When I started I was about 3-5mm out.

Good luck.

W.

WobblyLegs

That is exactly what I remembered about the 1/8 inch. You want believe how many times that I've read that tutorial. My problem was what tool was best for doing this?

Now that I know what tool to use, and how it should be used to cut the notches, I will perfect my skills on scrap plywood until the real thing gets here

You answered my question in that last thread that you so kindly wrote me. I will be perfecting my cuts with both my table saw and jig saw and using my Jig Saw as my tool of choice for my notches.

Cracker Larry

Thanks for your advice with the drilling of the holes. Somewhere, I did read about drilling holes in a corning but the explaination and details were not as clear as yours. I will try that first thing when I get home. Thanks

Regards,

BillTwo

Posted: **Sun May 15, 2005 5:39 pm**

Well, it's been a good weekend (no rain) so have managed quite a bit.

After a bit of a panic on Friday: http://forums.bateau2.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8213 I started to assemble the mould, which has worked out very well.

Getting everything in the right place wasn't easy, but modern equipment helps:

And this is what I ended up with this afternoon:

Surprisingly, still ahead of my schedule, but then again, I haven't started sanding yet!!

As usual, more pics here: http://gallery.bateau2.com/thumbnails.php?album=286

Regards,

Wobbly.

Posted: **Sun May 15, 2005 11:18 pm**

Looks like you're well you your way, Paul!

I've been looking forward to someone documenting the build of a C17.

One thing though I would keep a secret from whomever tends to that lawn...well, I don't think it will survive the mistreatment it will get

Posted: **Mon May 16, 2005 12:58 am**

WobblyLegs wrote:Well, it's been a good weekend (no rain) so have managed quite a bit.

After a bit of a panic on Friday: http://forums.bateau2.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8213 I started to assemble the mould, which has worked out very well.

Getting everything in the right place wasn't easy, but modern equipment helps:

Surprisingly, still ahead of my schedule, but then again, I haven't started sanding yet!!

Regards,

Wobbly.

Wobbly, keep doing what you are doing. It looks great to me and I see that your area of construction seems to be in your back yard. Hope the weather holds up for you. I'll be starting my OB17 within the next 2-3 weeks, as soon as my Plywood arrives. Your efforts to keep us posted on your progress and sharing with us your mistakes are commendable. I am already learning from you some things before I begin my OB17 construction; method used for cutting notches, what things to remember when epoxying and your efforts to maintain a tight tolerance in your building of your C17.

I also read your thread on the Transom gluing concern and the methods in which it was resolved. Your construction details and the posting of pictures, with comment, to the gallery is like reading a good novel - you can't wait to get to the next chapter.

Wobbly, keep up the good work and don't let mistakes take you away from your objective of building yourself a first rate boat. I hope to do the same.

Take care,

BillTwo

Posted: **Mon May 16, 2005 7:39 am**

DrBones wrote:Looks like you're well you your way, Paul! I've been looking forward to someone documenting the build of a C17.

Yeah it feels like I'm building now, and that the last month or so has merely been "preparation" if you know what I mean by that? Up until last Friday it all just looked like an Ikea flat-pack! I'm surprised by the size of it, although it is just right for what I want. BTW, dunno where you got "Paul" from, the name's Tim.

I'm enjoying keeping a record of progress here - I've found the site to be very useful for me, so maybe others can also learn from my mistakes as well.

DrBones wrote:One thing though I would keep a secret from whomever tends to that lawn...well, I don't think it will survive the mistreatment it will get

Ah, the lawn is my domain - the flowerbeds are "her's" so as long as I don't trample the flowers I should be OK.... Still it took a lot of persuading to get permission from SWMBO to build it there. I'm sure there is going to be a boat shaped path worn into the ground very soon.

Later,

Wobbly. (Tim)

Posted: **Mon May 16, 2005 11:54 am**

Wobby, Looking good!

I'm also pleased to see you documenting this boat due to your building outdoors . . . I'm going to have to build my next one outdoors also, so I'm following with great interest the steps you are using to align and level everthing!

I'm sure there is going to be a boat shaped path worn into the ground very soon.

I was sweeping out the garage yesterday and I have a nice outline of epoxy drops on the floor in the exact shape of my boat.

Dane

Posted: **Sun May 22, 2005 3:35 pm**

So, here we are then...

The weather this past week has been rain-sun-rain-sun-rain!

Still, I managed to measure (Friday) and cut (Saturday) the bottom hull panels. Saturday was really frustrating 'cos I had to pack everything away 3 or 4 times when the rain came. But, I managed to get the panels cut.

Then, today I joined the fore and aft sections of the panels together. As you must know by now, I'm building in my garden - so I don't have any nice flat surface to work on. My work-around on that is to make what I'm now calling my "joining-boards."

Basically, a strip of ply, lots of screws, turn it over and epoxy-glass the other side. The plastic in-between is so that the "joining-board" doesn't end up being glued to the panels.

I know it's strong enough, as I went indoors, came out 10 minutes later to find one had been blown off the frame onto the ground (it's been windy too), and all was still aligned!

Anyway, it's now glassed on one side, tomorrow I will do the other side and hopefully start stitching the bottom together the day after!

Wish me luck!

Wobbly.

Posted: **Tue May 24, 2005 4:02 pm**

WobblyLegs wrote:
Anyway, it's now glassed on one side, tomorrow I will do the other side and hopefully start stitching the bottom together the day after!

Wish me luck!

Wobbly.

Wobblylegs, just a few words- Since you are building outdoors, under a tent. What I've been reading while waiting on my OB17 Pre-Cut Plywood is the concern about moisture. I'm sure you are too. Don't forget those edges while glassing the other side. You are doing perfect quality work from what I see and I just thought that I might add that just in case.

Regards,

BillTWo

Posted: **Tue May 24, 2005 5:52 pm**

BillTwo wrote:What I've been reading while waiting on my OB17 Pre-Cut Plywood is the concern about moisture. I'm sure you are too.BillTWo

Hi Bill,

Yeah, I have been concerned about moisture, but circumstances are what they are. I have to deal with it, or not build a boat...

Hopefully, by leaving the sides off the tent, there will be enough airflow around the whole thing to prevent condensation, etc.

Anyway, I decided against glassing the other side of the bottom panels, and went ahead with stitching them on the frame (the join is in a relatively low-stress area, and the stress will be on the outside anyway, so I didn't see the point in adding another day or two to the project).

So far, looking good:

Keep well,

Wobbly.

Posted: **Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:35 pm**

Forming the hull.

Well, it's been a bit longer than usual since my last update, but it's all been a bit boring, really.

Until now.

I've joined the lower side panels together (pic's in the usual place) and have spent the past week or so (after work) stitching the bottom and lower sides together. And un-stitching, re-stitching, un-stitching, etc., etc.!

Here's the result so far:

I have to say, everything is starting to fit together extemely well. I hope it continues this way.

Anyway, I'm feeling quite knackered right now, so I will leave it at that for now...

Later,

Wobbly.

Posted: **Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:28 pm**

WobblyLegs wrote:Forming the hull.

You can see here the the ends of the stringers don't meet the back of the motorwell sides - that's 'cos I measured thinking the transom was four layers thick there, not two!

Reminder to self: Add a couple of layers of 9mm ply to the end of the stringers after roll-over!!!

Wobbly.

Wobbly,

I took this quote from you last gallery posting showing the Stern end of your Hull without the Transom. I take it that you're going to wait until you flip the Hull before making the correction to your Stringers? If this is the case, are you concerned about mis-aligning the shape of the Hull when flipped without the Transon epoxied with the rest of the Hull?

Your "Joining Board" technique seems to be ideal for the environment that you're working in. Even though I will be building (I hope) in my Garage, I am considering using the "Joining Board" method. My question is, with all those screws in the board, how time consuming is it to putty-in all those screw holes and approximately how far into the splice do these screws penetrate?

Wobbly, you're an inspiration for me. I can't wait to start on my OB17 (custom) boat. I'm still waiting on my Plywood delivery - should be delivered within the week.

Keep pumping-out those pictures with text. I look forward to seeing your progress.

Regards,

BillTwo

Posted: **Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:03 am**

BillTwo wrote:I take it that you're going to wait until you flip the Hull before making the correction to your Stringers? If this is the case, are you concerned about mis-aligning the shape of the Hull when flipped without the Transon epoxied with the rest of the Hull?

Hi again BillTwo,

I am going to join the transom to the hull before roll-over, but the frames, motorwell sides, and stringers aren't joined at this stage. They all come out after the boat has been flipped (is it called a boat at this stage?) so that the inside of the hull can be glassed.

Thats when I'll make the correction to the stringers, before putting them back into the glassed hull.

Keep well,

Wobb.

Posted: **Sun Jun 12, 2005 3:59 pm**

Getting closer to glass!

Well, the past couple of weeks, I've been joining the bottom and lower-side panels together.

Yesterday I sanded the chines down to a radius in preparation for laying the bi-axial tape (next weekend).

It's still looking good, but to be honest, I'm kinda dreading next weekend.

BillTwo, I don't have an answer about filling screw holes yet, as I haven't done it (leaving it till after rollover). I'm probably going to drip pure epoxy into them, and use a little nail to work the epoxy in to the hole.

As to the depth of the screws: the joining board is 9mm ply, and the panels are 6mm ply. The screws are 16mm, but I haven't counter-sunk the joining board. So, when I screw the boards to the panels, I do it to just a but more that finger-tight (on the screwdriver), and the points of the screws end up just below the outer surface of the panels. Also, holes were drilled into the joining board, but not into the panels - I push-twisted the screws in there.

So, here's looking forward to a fun weekend in 5 days time!!!

Wobbly.

Posted: **Sun Jun 12, 2005 4:50 pm**

That is really looking good, Wob......... Yessireee!

Posted: **Sun Jun 12, 2005 10:38 pm**

WobblyLegs wrote:Getting closer to glass!

Well, the past couple of weeks, I've been joining the bottom and lower-side panels together.

Yesterday I sanded the chines down to a radius in preparation for laying the bi-axial tape (next weekend).

Wobbly.

Wobbly,

I don't remember if I asked you this before - did you pre-coat your plywood prior to assembly of the Hull? If you did, did you have any problem bending any of the panels for the stitching and forming of the Hull?

I will be getting my Pre-Cut Plywood delivered hopefully this week. Once I do receive it, I will be applying those recommendation and references such as those from your threads and pictures to my building process.

Continue the good work.

Regards,

BillTwo

Posted: **Mon Jun 13, 2005 4:36 am**

BillTwo wrote:I don't remember if I asked you this before - did you pre-coat your plywood prior to assembly of the Hull?

Hi BillTwo,

No, I haven't pre-coated anything. I wouldn't think that it would be a good idea, as it would all have to be sanded for the glass/epoxy to grip to.

This way, I'll coat the wood, allow it to "soak" for a bit, then lay the glass. I think that starting, say, at the stern with the coating, by the time I get to the bow, I'll be ready to start laying glass from the stern.

Regards,

Wobbly.

Posted: **Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:32 am**

You are one clean builder! This boat is going to be beauty to behold if you keep this quality throughout.

Tony

Posted: **Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:43 am**

Okay, so things didn't really go to schedule.

I had no idea how difficult it would be to get the epoxy to wet the glass out. I think maybe if I got a "wetting-out" roller for doing the fabric it might be easier than using a squeegee.

Anyway, I managed to prepare the boat on Saturday - this involved sanding all the joins and lumps of mixture used for filling the cable tie holes etc. Not very pleasant as it hit 36 degrees C (97F) in the garden. Same on Sunday.

Sunday I measured and cut the fabric for the bottom. I also did a few tests and practice fibreglass laminations with the West slow-cure resin/hardener mix that I hadn't used up to now. Just as well, as in spite of using the measuring pumps I found that due to the heat, the hardener becomes so thin that it flows back into the pump! So the method now involves doing a little "primer" squirt from each container into little tubs, then doing the mixing measurements. Having sorted that out, I have to admit that it as real easy to get the right mixture with the pumps.

The other really useful tool that I've discovered is this little cutter:

I had to get my own from the local sewing shop (Mrs Wobbly wouldn't let me use hers) - it's a fabric cutter that I used to cut the glass fabric to fit the hull. All I did was lay the sheets on the hull and walk around it pushing this along the glass - easy, accurate cut. It does need good pressure though!

Monday morning things got delayed (again, weather, a thunderstorm that lasted until about 11). I was only able to start work at about 2 when my work area had dried out enough. I suppose it had to rain, as it was the start of the Wimbledon tennis tournament (and it always rains during Wimbledon - and it's just up the road from me!

Oh well.

I managed to get the keel laminations done Monday afternoon, followed by the chine laminations done on Tuesday. I also managed to get one layer of tape on the transom, but had to stop there as my last pair of gloves tore. I need to make sure that I don't run out again!

I have to say, I really don't like working with large amounts of epoxy. It's easy enough to spread on a horizontal surface, but on vertical surfaces? Grrr. As you can see from my transom pic (below), it drips all over the place. And sticks to everything. And once it gets on the gloves and squeegee everthing gets all slippery and slimy. And my hands still feel sticky now, even though I only got a little bit of epoxy on them.

Well, that's about it for now. I now have to sand all those edges before proceeding with the layer of fabric. I'm not going to assume that I will be able to do it all this coming weekend (considering I had thought I could have done it all by now!!). At the very least, I hope to get it all sanded and ready.

kiwi wrote:You are one clean builder!

Tony

Tony, you might not think so anymore after seeing this:

.

That's it for now.

Keep building guys... (BOD's)

Wobbly.

Posted: **Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:22 am**

Hey, it still looks pretty clean. Working with fiberglass/epoxy is messy business. I am on my third box of 100 pr. gloves and still not done with my FL14. It might be late now, but one thing I was thinking of doing next time I build is masking off areas where you dont want epoxy. This might help eliminate the amount of runs and splotches you have to sand off.

It must be a pain having to dodge the weather there...hats off to you! Looks good.

Posted: **Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:28 am**

Wobbly, the boat is looking great.

One suggestion....pump epoxy/hardener into measuring cups. The pumps get less accurate over time (also with differences in temps) and with a 5 to 1 ratio, there is less room for error.

Keep up the great work!

Posted: **Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:14 am**

Great looking work and pictures Wobbly

. Sounds like we are the same stage, I'm building my OB17 outside and did the tape and hull glass last weekend. Question for you - why did you stop taping the corners half way up the transom? That whole joint is highly stressed by the engine weight and stresses. Maybe check your scantlings or with Jacques before applying the skin glass.

cheers, Lou

Posted: **Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:28 am**

Good looking job but what was the problem with wetting out the fiberglass? Does it stay white? In that case, it may be the binder. Not all types of glass are compatible with epoxy.
Normally, the fiberglass should become transparent in a few minutes if not seconds.
From the pictures, it looks OK now.

Posted: **Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:40 am**

jacquesmm wrote:Good looking job but what was the problem with wetting out the fiberglass? Does it stay white? In that case, it may be the binder. Not all types of glass are compatible with epoxy.
Normally, the fiberglass should become transparent in a few minutes if not seconds.
From the pictures, it looks OK now.

Hi Jacques,

The glass does go transparent quite quickly, but it took more epoxy than I expected. The problem I had was trying to eliminate all the air bubbles that formed between the weave and it took a lot of repetative squeezing with the squeegee to make sure all the air was expelled.

Regards,

Tim.

Posted: **Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:49 am**

Lucky_Louis wrote:Question for you - why did you stop taping the corners half way up the transom?

cheers, Lou

Good question Lou - one reason is that with the upper side panels in place I cannot reach the middle of the boat when standing on my little stepladder. Also, I wouldn't be able to work underneath the boat as I wouldn't have enough space to get in - most of my tools and materials are stored underneath.

I'm not concerned about strength as on the coners of the transom (and the bow) the tape goes all the way to the top of the lower side panels. When the uppers side panels are put in place, I will be doing more tape all along that corner, so in effect each corner will end up being a glass-wood-glass-wood-glass laminate for the middle six inches or so (the overlap of the two side panels).

Keep well,

T

Posted: **Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:47 pm**

The hull is looking very nice Wobbly. I like your fabric cutter too; my wife uses one of those for quilting.

On my boatbuilding project last year, I made the mistake of borrowing my wife's sewing scissors. My old shop pair were too dull to cut the FG. She was so pissed at me when she found out. You obviously have better sense then I do.

George

Posted: **Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:54 pm**

I have to say, I really don't like working with large amounts of epoxy. It's easy enough to spread on a horizontal surface, but on vertical surfaces?

When taping, some wet the tape out on a separate table and then put the wetted out tape down on the seams. It is a lot easier then wetting out the tape on the seam.

For a table, I simply use my 12 quart cooler lid. I have put a layer of poly plastic sheeting on the lid. The cured epoxy just peels off as a thin film the next time I am doing a taping session. It is a quick and easy way to tape and the tape has the right amount of epoxy.

Posted: **Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:40 pm**

WobblyLegs wrote:Okay, so things didn't really go to schedule.

I have to say, I really don't like working with large amounts of epoxy. It's easy enough to spread on a horizontal surface, but on vertical surfaces? Grrr. As you can see from my transom pic (below), it drips all over the place. And sticks to everything. And once it gets on the gloves and squeegee everthing gets all slippery and slimy. And my hands still feel sticky now, even though I only got a little bit of epoxy on them.

Keep building guys... (BOD's)

Wobbly.

Wobbly, your work is still looking good. I shouldn't worry about staying on schedule. Schedules are nothing but references in time as to when you would like for a particular event(s) to occur. The main focus, as I'm sure you are already doing, is detailing and maintaining a good quality of work which you are currently doing.

When I was uploading more pictures to my gallery "OB17 Building Phase", I came across your recent gallery input and saw this strange looking tool with the orange wheel. Now I can rest easy since you explained what it is. I'm always on the look-out for new tools and better ways of doing things.

Finally a word of CAUTION, you mentioned that you "got a little bit of epoxy on" your hands. A little is too much. If you should happen to have that occur again, immediately clean it off with "white Vinegar". This is what I've read in various books and manuals as I'm sure that you have.

I've just now received my Pre-cut Plywood and will begin today cutting out the pre-cut patterns.

Keep up the good work and BOD

Regards,

Billtwo

Posted: **Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:08 pm**

Wobbly,

Just wanted to say that it looks like you're doing a fantasic job. The hull looks great. Hope things keep going well for you.

Jason

Posted: **Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:46 pm**

Looks Great!

Posted: **Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:10 am**

Well, it's been a while since the last update, and things have been progressing slowly.

I think, though, that I'm over the main epoxy hump, that is covering the hull (I know the inside still has to be done, but at least that doesn't have to be fair!).

Since the last update, the weather has really been playing havoc, as for a couple of weeks it seemed to rain every afternoon so I couldn't work in the evenings, and then a couple of weekends too (not as bad as it seems some of you guys in Florida seem to be experiencing, from what I hear).

Anyway, summer seems to have well and truly arrived, so last weekend I managed to sand all the taped seems in preparation for the final lamination, then during the week I measured out the upper side panels (not cut yet).

Then, this weekend I finally bit the bullet and laid the cloth over the boat.

I eventually decided to go "wet on dry" as people here seem to refer to it. Laid down the cloth on the starboard side, positioned it and got on with mixing. Starting at the transom, I just poured the whole lot on the cloth at the centre-line over a distance of about 0.5m (1.5'). As this started to run down towards the chine, I very lightly and without trying to force the epoxy into the cloth, used a squeegee to spread the epoxy over the first area, then went to mix a second pot of goo.

By the time the second mix was ready, I was able to pour on to the cloth again, just below halfway between the centre and the chine, and the first pouring was soaked into the cloth enough to squeeze the air out. After spreading about three areas like this, I had my routine going pretty well.

The port side took about two and a half hours to lay. By now I was on a roll, but it was getting really hot and I was contemplating delaying the second half. But, a half hour break, and nearly two litres of water later, decided it had to go on.

The second (port) side took only one and a half hours to do, working with a nice method:
- Mix one pot, pour at centre and spread towards me (chine) lightly.
- Mix another pot, pour 2/3 of it closer to chine, spread lightly.
- Squeeze first mix to get air out.
- Pour half of remaining mix onto overlap on starboard side and spread lightly.
- Squeeze second batch on the bottom.
- Spread remaining epoxy onto the glass on the side lightly.
- Squeeze starboard side overlap.
- Squeeze side.
- Start again one step closer to the bow.

Measuring and mixing was made easy by having pumps in the resin and hardener that pump proportionally so each pot was four pumps resin, four pumps hardener (about 150ml/5oz). It also helped that the resin had warmed up quite a lot, so was thinner and easier to spread than the first half.

Of course, working in hot conditions did cause a little bit of out-gassing from the wood, but I was able to squeeze almost all of it down again. There are a few very small patches where air got caught under the glass, but looking at it this morning I will be able to grind a small area with a Dremel and squeeze some epoxy into that. Also, having already done the centre and chines, obviously no air could come out there and I have ended up with one very strong looking hull.

It really does look nice now, and as Mrs Wobbly said when looking at the dark wood through the glass, it seems a shame to paint it. I think I have now decided that I am going to try and keep the entire topside natural wood if I can get all the joints neat enough.

Also, I ordered all the wood that I need for the hull trimmings - keel, strakes, spray rail, rub rail laminations - which will be cut to shape (strakes and spray rail) and delivered on Saturday. This week I plan on filling the weave on the bottom in preparation for fairing and hopefully I'll be able to join the keel (skeg?) and spray rails on the weekend.

I shall let you know how I get on (hopefully things will start moving quicker again).

As usual, more pics here:
http://gallery.bateau2.com/thumbnails.p ... 286&page=6

Oh, and I've just noticed that the gallery pics seem a bit out of order, but I'm sure JM will sort that out...

Wobb.

Posted: **Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:40 pm**

Wobbly,

You're moving at an impressive rate even with the weather delays. I'll be following your method on fiberglassing when I get there. Sounds like a good systematic approach when working by yourself.

I have a question for you. How large of a gap did you leave between the hull panels at the bow stem? This weekend I placed the hull bottom panels and the lower side panels. I initial left a 6mm gap where the bottom panels meet at the bow. Placing the lower sides, however, pulled the bottom panel together, so there is very little gap now. I do have a 4-5mm gap between the lower side panels.

When the builder gallery is back online, I plan on starting a progress thread too.

George

Posted: **Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:18 am**

glcost wrote:Wobbly,

I have a question for you. How large of a gap did you leave between the hull panels at the bow stem? This weekend I placed the hull bottom panels and the lower side panels. I initial left a 6mm gap where the bottom panels meet at the bow. Placing the lower sides, however, pulled the bottom panel together, so there is very little gap now. I do have a 4-5mm gap between the lower side panels.

George

Hi George,

It may or may not be the right way to do it, but I have actually had very few gaps in the boat so far. The only place that I made sure that there was a gap between panels is along the centre-line of the boat and near the front between bottom and lower side panels.

I'm really comfortable with the joins as they are - bottom panels to transom has an angle, so there is a large wedge of epoxy glue in there.

At the front, it took quite an effort to bring the bottom panels together, and that basically forced me to have no gap along the curve (using little cylinders - cut up tent poles - inside, under the cable ties, to stop them overlapping), but the wood (at the edges) touched corner-to-corner, so I filled that groove with a fillet mixture.

With the lower side panels, the same along the chines up until the point near the front where the hard chine started to become flat with the bottom panels, where I put spacers in to force a gap of about 3mm. Where the lower side panels join at the bow, again it was corner-to-corner. I was looking over the plans after I'd filleted this joint and noticed that they say to leave a gap here, but obviously it was too late to change by then. I'm not worried - I can only imagine that my boat will be a couple of millimetres shorter as a result.

As for the bottom panels, again where the angle of join is very shallow, I put spacers in to create a 3mm-ish gap from stern up to the point where it starts curving up to the bow.

With all of these joins, I used a mixing stick to squeeze an epoxy glue (fairly thick) mixture into the gap until I could see it oozing out the other side, making sure there was enough sitting over the join to allow for absorbtion. Then removed cable ties (about a week later to be sure the glue was properly cured) and filled the spaces where they were (and all the holes left behind...).

When I get to laying the upper sides, there will probably be a substantial gap at the bow which suits me, as I'll need to create a flat area for mounting the bow-eye. The rest of the bow there, I will build up a radius of fillet mixture above and below where the eye will be, on top of the fibreglass layers.

Regards, and enjoy building (I am, still)

Wobb.

Posted: **Tue Jul 19, 2005 3:35 pm**

Yeah, my joints are all very tight. Along the keel and chine it's corner to corner between the panels for the most part. I used the bow mold and even there I have very little gap. Even though my hull is very fair, I didn't get the hump in the keel forward of frame C, I think I'll go back through and loosen the ties before gluing the joints.

Not much will happen over the next couple weeks since I'll be on holiday. First, I go up to Edmonton Canada for a rugby tournement then off to Orlando FL.

Take care,

George

Posted: **Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:26 pm**

So, it's been raining again!

But, unlike the other rain I've had to avoid so far on this project, which have been short showers followed by long, hot, dry spells (usually while I'm in the office!!), over the past two days it's been a light drizzle, fairly warm, and a relative humidity of 98%.

I think you could call it "sticky!"

So, what has this to do with the boat?

Well, the wood has started to absorb moisture and expanded. As I've recently covered the bottom with glass, this is mainly happening on the inside of the boat, and on the side panels. So, as the inside has expanded, the whole boat is changing shape. Not very good!

I don't think it's a real problem, but it is going to be a real delay as the weather is forecast to stay like this for another week or so, and then I will have to wait (hoping) for it to dry out again for me to continue building.

The pic below is of frame C, where - two days ago - the bottom panels and side panels were lying flush against the frame.

And this one is frame D, same again. The gap (again two days ago was flush) is 30mm!!!

I wonder how much moisture this wood can take before causing strain on the joints? I guess I'm about to find out...

Regards,

Wobbly.

Posted: **Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:14 am**

WobblyLegs wrote: ... the wood has started to absorb moisture and expanded

Hi Wobbly,

As you're building outside, why don't you apply first coat of epoxy on the recently cut plywood and then sand the flat pieces before assemply? this is the way I am working with my CR11 right now and I'm sure it will avoid those problems.

I've been following your project very close as I like the C17 boat. You're doing a great job with it.

Regards,

Posted: **Thu Jul 28, 2005 8:51 am**

esparver wrote:
WobblyLegs wrote: ... the wood has started to absorb moisture and expanded
Hi Wobbly,

As you're building outside, why don't you apply first coat of epoxy on the recently cut plywood and then sand the flat pieces before assemply? this is the way I am working with my CR11 right now and I'm sure it will avoid those problems.

I've been following your project very close as I like the C17 boat. You're doing a great job with it.

Regards,

Not a bad idea. But wait for a few dry days first or you will seal in a high moister content.

Posted: **Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:45 pm**

I am watching this build very carefully as I plan to build a CX19 outside. Since it rains even more in Wales expansion due to moisture absorption is going to be a problem. Would it be possible to pre-coat all the plywood once it has been cut and then assemble the boat as normal?

Posted: **Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:50 pm**

Yes, you can pre-coat it all. In a very small boat where the curves are more severe, pre-coating might make the wood more difficult to bend â€“ but in your case it would probably be a good idea

Posted: **Mon Aug 01, 2005 6:36 pm**

Wobbly....Looking at your recent photos I noticed that you are adding the sprayrails before you fair...IMHO it might be easier to fair if you add the spray rails after you fair the hull.
It looks great so far..good luck as you continue.

Posted: **Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:16 am**

Shine wrote:Not a bad idea. But wait for a few dry days first or you will seal in a high moister content.

I thought about posting a question re: this topic on the Plywood board, but since you brought it up...

Do you have to take care to epoxy/fiberglass the plywood in relatively equal humidity conditions? Asked another way, is sealing in different moisture content in different panels a Bad Thing?

For a small boat like my first project, it will be easy to epoxy the whole thing at once, but as I move on to bigger boats the problem will present itself.

Posted: **Mon Aug 08, 2005 5:44 am**

Starting to make progress again.

Well, after another couple of dodgy weather weeks, things started to turn around about the middle of last week.

Last weekend I managed to join the first two of three pieces of ply to make up each of the upper side panels, and also have made up the spray rails to be attached later. The spray rails are measured and cut to form a point at the front, and are at the moment soaking in a tube full of water, to be put on the boat and moulded soon.

This weekend has been fairly productive, starting with screwing and gluing the keel on on Wednesday evening, followed by removing the screws, drilling out the screw holes and filling them with epoxy on Thursday evening.

Then starting a general clean-up of the hull in preparation for coating of a fairing mixture.

Saturday was spent sanding any remaining lumps and bumps out of the glass covering the hull, tidying the join between the keel and the hull, and final shaping of the keel (planing it so that the bottom is dead level).

Last job of the day was the fairing mixture going on the lower side panels.

Yesterday (Sunday) morning I found that that fairing mixture was still soft (but not sticky) which raised concern about whether I had my epoxy ratio off - I checked the nozzles of my pumps and found that the hardener was a bit clogged up, so was starting to get a bit worried (cue frantic search on this forum for epoxy problems). Anyway, there was nothing to do about it, so I left that, and finished off joining the upper side panels.

I turns out that my panic about the fairing wasn't necessary, as by yesterday evening it was hard and I was able to hand-sand some ridges out. Phew.

One of the reasons for doing the side fairing first is to get a feel for the filler on a relatively small area before doing the bottom. Hopefully I will be able to lay filler on the bottom this evening, trying to make it a bit thinner (the layer, not the mixture) that the stuff I've done so far to keep sanding time down. We'll see. It feels more like cake icing than peanut butter when mixing (slightly gritty). As Mrs. Wobbly has been asking for the past month or so, "when are you starting with the peanut butter?" Well, now I have, and I now feel like I'm on the way to finishing off the hull. Feels good.

Oh, and the wood is finally starting to dry out properly and is returning to it's original shape, lying flat against the frames.

Also, as the side panels are so long, I have nowhere to store them, so I made little hooks out of plywood which are clamped to the transom and frame B, which the side panels are resting on.

The result of this weekends work:

More pic's here: http://gallery.bateau2.comindex.php?cat=12964

The weather is supposed to be good for the rest of this week, so I'm looking forward to getting lots more done!

Later,

Wobbly.

Posted: **Mon Aug 08, 2005 10:49 am**

Deadgobot wrote:
Shine wrote:Not a bad idea. But wait for a few dry days first or you will seal in a high moister content.
I thought about posting a question re: this topic on the Plywood board, but since you brought it up...

Do you have to take care to epoxy/fiberglass the plywood in relatively equal humidity conditions? Asked another way, is sealing in different moisture content in different panels a Bad Thing?

For a small boat like my first project, it will be easy to epoxy the whole thing at once, but as I move on to bigger boats the problem will present itself.

I don't have the answer for this, but the problem I experienced was due to the wood absorbing moisture on one side only (the other side was sealed) which caused the wood to curve where it could.

All my wood lives outdoors (under shelter) but gets taken off the stack and well aired (both sides exposed) at least a week before being used. This makes sure that the wood is nice and flat.

I would imagine that if there is more moisture in one side than the other, it would eventually even out in a sealed panel.

I think the most important thing is to make sure the wood is flat (uniformly dry) before working with it, so making it more important to have similar moisture content on each side of the panels, rather than in each panel.

I've said it before: I'm not the expert, but it makes sense to me.

Wobbly.

Posted: **Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:27 am**

WobblyLegs wrote:I think the most important thing is to make sure the wood is flat (uniformly dry) before working with it, so making it more important to have similar moisture content on each side of the panels, rather than in each panel.

I've said it before: I'm not the expert, but it makes sense to me.

Since I'm even less of an expert, until I hear words to the contrary yours will work as passable gospel.

Your boat is shaping up nicely!

Posted: **Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:49 pm**

Where did you get the gazibo? I would like a photo of the storage method you are using?
Thanks

Posted: **Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:58 pm**

It looks like one I bought from Homebase a couple of years ago.

Posted: **Mon Aug 08, 2005 3:14 pm**

PaulMcClure wrote:It looks like one I bought from Homebase a couple of years ago.

It's probably the same - I got it from Argos (part of the same group as Homebase) for about 80 quid. Been very useful.

Posted: **Mon Aug 08, 2005 3:56 pm**

Yep, sounds like it. I just turfed mine out and bought a new one from Argos for Â£60+. The old one was a bugger to put up on your own, the new one is really easy, since the frame is collapsible without dismantling.

One caveat for these is that the fabric is not really waterproof, so bear that in mind when leaving it out when rain is expected.

Posted: **Mon Aug 08, 2005 4:23 pm**

hi wobbly i have been checkin out this site for a while and hope to build the c17 someday. yours is looking really great. any ideas yet how you are going to lay out the interior? paul

Posted: **Mon Aug 08, 2005 5:10 pm**

PaulMcClure wrote:Yep, sounds like it. I just turfed mine out and bought a new one from Argos for Â£60+. The old one was a bugger to put up on your own, the new one is really easy, since the frame is collapsible without dismantling.

One caveat for these is that the fabric is not really waterproof, so bear that in mind when leaving it out when rain is expected.

Mine is obviously of the old design then (6x3 metre) - poles that slide into each other, nothing fits perfectly etc., etc.

Yeah, I know it's not waterproof - I cover the boat with a tarp as well (except when I'm leaving epoxy to cure - which is why I need to be confident of dry spells before doing major work like fibreglass on the bottom!!).

circlehook wrote:hi wobbly i have been checkin out this site for a while and hope to build the c17 someday. yours is looking really great. any ideas yet how you are going to lay out the interior? paul

I'm thinking of running benches both sides, far enough forward that it also becomes a seat for me to use with some leg-room while steering. I'm not planning on installing a proper seat - I can always lean on the side if needs be on a long river trip (or hopefully Channel crossing to France!!!). If at sea with biggish waves, I'd prefer to be standing anyway.

But the layout is, as they say, very much subject to change.

And, tonight, I have discovered that I was a bit generous with the fairing mix. When they say "easy to sand" I guess they mean "relative to stone" or something like that. So, new procedure, enough to fill the weave, and if needs be, more later.

The stuff is easier to mix than to sand.

Welsh_diver wrote:I would like a photo of the storage method you are using?
Thanks

I built a deck at the bottom of the garden a couple of years ago, which is where everything is. It's quite protected, surrounded by fence/shed on three sides, but open at the front. What you can't see in the photo is that it has a roof.

The wood lying on the deck is sitting on some 2x2's, so is kept "in the air," while the stuff stacked at the back is mostly off-cuts (but of a size to be used later for a console, or other fittings that I might dream up.

Everything lying flat stays covered with a tarp until ready to use. Usually, if I need a sheet, I'll take it out, stack it near the back with a big air gap for a week, then get on with it.

Nice chatting,

Wobbly.

Posted: **Mon Aug 08, 2005 5:33 pm**

Yep, that's the one. I threw mine out after having to put it together myself for the millionth time - every time you get one pole in the rest fall apart.

I'm thinking of doing my C17 with a similar layout, but converting the benches to being fish storage, so I can keep them from filling up the floor

A plug at the bottom will aid washing them out.

Commiserations on the sanding. I'm using QuikFair right now (N7 for my daughters) and it's great

Posted: **Mon Aug 08, 2005 6:09 pm**

PaulMcClure wrote:I'm thinking of doing my C17 with a similar layout, but converting the benches to being fish storage, so I can keep them from filling up the floor.

Yeah, my benches will be storage to - probably camping stuff - not much into fishing.

Paul, where are you based?

We're hoping to do a week or two next year on Loch Lomond with this tub.

Tim.

Posted: **Mon Aug 08, 2005 7:35 pm**

Tim,

I'm about an hour away from Loch Lomond, in Skelmorlie which is near Largs. If you are going to be up this way then give me a call. I'd love to see your boat. I've had the C17 plans since they were released and had planned to start building it a year ago. However my workshop got flooded while I was building an SH14 which got ruined, so I had to wait until some ground works were completed.

I built an FL14 a couple of years ago and I'm just finishing off an N7 this week. Once the C17 is done I'm thinking about a DE25 long cabin. And I suppose I should do another SH14. I still have the water damaged panels to use as tempates.

This boatbuilding stuff is addictive, no?

Posted: **Tue Aug 09, 2005 4:14 am**

PaulMcClure wrote:Once the C17 is done I'm thinking about a DE25 long cabin.

You're reading my mind!

Posted: **Tue Aug 09, 2005 7:49 pm**

WobblyLegs wrote:So, this weekend has been a little more relaxing, but still keeping ahead of my schedule.

Stringers laminated, measured and cut, in that order, then notches cut. Followed by notches cut into frames "C," "D" and "E."

I had to check whether they all fit:

It's also the first real indication of the size of the boat that I'm building. Somehow a tape across the ground showing 17 feet doesn't mean anything!

I had planned on laminating the transom, but got hit by a thunder-storm with hail like I have never seen (in England) before? (20 minutes after this pic was taken, the sky was black. Unbelievable!).

More pic's in the gallery as usual.

Most excellent,Evildwarf.Build on!

Posted: **Tue Aug 16, 2005 6:57 am**

The boat is now reaching full size.

A week of steady progress since the last update!

I have managed to fair the side panels of the boat, creating a load of dust, but the neighbours seem quite tolerant so far - lucky for me. In fact, they are more intrigued than anything else, always asking when the floods are coming, and making comments about arks etc.

So, after smoothing the sides, applied a fairing mixture to the bottom, trying to keep it as thin and smooth as possible, but I'm still going to have a lot of sanding to do.

Also, I've taken the spray rails out of their two week soak (it was going to be one week, but you know how it goes...). Even though the wood was thoroughly saturated, it still took a major effort to bend and twist them along the chine. In order to keep the rail from pulling away from the chine, I put a little (5mm) bolt through the front of it and the hull, then loads of screws from inside into the rail to hold it in place while it dries. More filling to do later.

The rail is going to stay there until properly dry (and hopefully hold it's shape) while I work around it.

The next parts to go on are the upper side panels. Last night I did a proper dry-fit, screwing the panels into place, starting at the transom and fastening every 500mm towards the bow. That seems enough to hold it. I might put more screws in when gluing, just to hold the panels together more uniformly.

Once again, I'm impressed with how well everything is fitting together. After reading on one of the posts here a while back that the overlap of the side panels is 6 inches, I made a mark 6" up (down if right-side up) the lower side panel midway along the boat, and another one midway between there and the front. Then a single screw through the back end of the panel into the transom for the panel to rotate on. I aligned the panel against the midway mark, then against the forward mark, the screwed into place. First one went on perfectly. Second one need a couple of screws removed, a little nudge, then together again. Perfect. Everything lines up very nicely at the front.

I think this pic shows much of what I've done during the past week.

So now I will be working on gluing the uppers, then taping to the transom and at the front, then the rubrail before returning to sanding the bottom.

We shall see how it goes.

More pics in the gallery:
http://gallery.bateau2.com/thumbnails.php?album=286

Keep building.

Wobbly.

Posted: **Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:18 am**

The bottom looks very fair from the pictures - nice job

Posted: **Tue Aug 16, 2005 11:04 pm**

Hi Wobbly,
I've been following your build with interest, especially now I've virtually finished the FL14 and am hoping to start on the LB22 soon. Thanks for some very informative photos - particularly of the strongback and your use of the laser level, which I found very helpful.

I think you are doing a terrific job - beautiful work on the hull, which looks as fair as one could wish for.

BTW, whereabouts in London are you? I was born in Hendon; also lived in Greenford for a while. I'll be in London (Watford/Bushey area) in early October, but unfortunately won't have a lot of time or I would try to come and visit you and see your boat "in the flesh".

Again, great work - keep posting pics!

Posted: **Wed Aug 17, 2005 3:05 am**

that is an impressive piece of workmanship

Posted: **Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:42 am**

The hull is finished.

Well, it's all glued together. I have to tape the bow, and the corners of the transom to the upper side panels, and then the structure is complete.

Loads of screws went into it to hold the upper side to the lower side while the glue cured, so I have most of those still to fill. The boat looks more like a sieve than a boat at the moment.

But, it does really look like a boat now. Not a pile of wood. It feels like I've reached a point where I'm starting to finish a boat as opposed to starting to build a boat.

Now, if only the weather would co-operate. I know I go on a bit about the rain, but it seem like each day of rain delays me by two or three days of progress as I have to wait until everything dries out. I've been hoping to seal the entire hull with epoxy for days now, but it always seems to rain the day before I'm able to do it.

Next time I do something like this, I guess I should seal the wood (as suggested here before) before building, or maybe move to a drier place (which is also quite possible - a DE25 in South Africa is an idea brewing at the moment).

Anyway, I'm sitting with a boat, waiting for the weather to turn so I can finish off the outside of the hull. Let's hope it does, as I've decided to take next week off so that I have nine days dedicated to it.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Wobbly.

Mike Adams wrote:BTW, whereabouts in London are you?

Mike, I'm in Worcester Park, just beyond Wimbledon. It's a very wet place right now

Posted: **Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:03 pm**

very nice cant wait to see her flipped over

Posted: **Mon Sep 19, 2005 5:09 pm**

circlehook wrote:very nice cant wait to see her flipped over

Yeah, me too, but not this year.

So, it's been almost a month since the last update...

What can I say, it's been raining for most of it.

But, I have managed to get a bit further on the boat. I took a week off work at the end of August to concentrate on the hull. The weather co-operated perfectly, and I managed to sand the entire bottom of the hull, which took three days (about 4 hours a day was all I could manage) and 42 sanding disks-

Also, laid some FG tape along the keel, continuing up the bow to just under (if the boat was right-side up) the spray rails. Two reasons for this - one is to give the keel some protection from grounding, and secondly, running it over the corner towards the bow gives me more lee-way when sanding that curve smooth, and avoiding sanding into the bi-ax. It worked perfectly, and will probably give a tiny bit more protection against hitting debris that often floats down the Thames. -

Lastly, I have (eventually) joined the spray rails and strakes to the hull. I put a post on the process of shaping the front of the strakes here as I thought it might be useful for other builders. The strakes I did last week with the assistance of Mrs. Wobbly - she held them in place while I pulled them down with screws from inside, and the spray rails went on yesterday, with myself holding them in place on the outside, an assistant holding the long end up, and another assistant to push screws in from inside. Went smoothly.

It did help that I'd soaked the rails, then put them in place to dry. When I removed them, they kept a very nice curve, not quite a perfect match to the hull, but nearly.

The season's changing now, very definitely heading into autumn, so I'm planning on covering everything with a layer of epoxy, wrapping it all up under a new tarpaulin (my present one now has loads of holes in it) and pulling the tent down for the winter (it won't stand up to the wind that usually comes in late autumn).

If, after that, I manage to get a bit of sanding done here and there (there's lot's of finishing touches to do before painting), I consider that a bonus, but I'm not counting on it. With the arrival of spring next year, I'm looking forward to putting some colour on the boat.

Well, that's my progress for five month's of building my C17. A lot of the time I've been held back by weather, but the last month or so has been a case of doing something while opportunity presents, and find something else to do when it's wet (not that easy to do). I will put more updates here as things go on, but don't hold your breath until about March/April 2006.

As usual, more pics here.

Later.

B.O.D.

Wobbly.

Posted: **Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:04 pm**

Well, that's it for this year

So, a pic of this summer's progress:

And, now it's wrapped until spring:

Have a good winter peeps (I'm going looking for some piste soon!).

Wobb.

Posted: **Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:17 pm**

No! No! No! It's going to kill me to have to wait to see this one finished. Heve a nice nap.

Posted: **Sun Oct 30, 2005 5:14 pm**

Wobb,
That's a BEAUTIFUL hull! Well done. Looking forward to seeing you resume work in the Spring. Until then, take care.
Mike

Posted: **Sun Oct 30, 2005 6:44 pm**

WobblyLegs wrote:Well, that's it for this year

And, now it's wrapped until spring:

A more patient man I have never seen.

Posted: **Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:43 pm**

Looking great Wobbly! I fully understand the challenges of building outside in our Northern climes. I would like to share what happened to me last winter so the same doesn't happen to you this winter. When I resumed my OB17 build this spring, I peeked up into my hull only to find a bumper crop of mildew had taken hold everywhere. Apparently the stuff loves mahogany. Before this winter takes hold, I'm going have a few hours of scrubbing with bleach before I can dry and seal with epoxy. I'm not really ready to flip my hull yet but I may flip, seal the inside, and flip back onto the mold before winter. A light bulb for a bit of heat and a small fan for air circulation may work too.

Posted: **Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:04 pm**

Lucky_Louis wrote:Looking great Wobbly! I fully understand the challenges of building outside in our Northern climes. I would like to share what happened to me last winter so the same doesn't happen to you this winter. When I resumed my OB17 build this spring, I peeked up into my hull only to find a bumper crop of mildew had taken hold everywhere. Apparently the stuff loves mahogany. Before this winter takes hold, I'm going have a few hours of scrubbing with bleach before I can dry and seal with epoxy. I'm not really ready to flip my hull yet but I may flip, seal the inside, and flip back onto the mold before winter. A light bulb for a bit of heat and a small fan for air circulation may work too.

Lucky_Louis, thanks for the the advice. I'll make sure that I do periodical checks through the winter.

Most of it on the outside is sealed, and the inside is very open to air circulation (and easy to access), but it's no problem to keep an eye on it.

To the other responses to this "blog" through the summer - thanks guys, this site has been a mine of information, and the responses have been great!

I'm already getting fidgety and the wife is telling me to get a new (winter) hobby. Boat-building = addictive? No, surely not! Now, where's the credit card for the DE25 plans?

Later guys,

Wobbly.

Posted: **Mon Oct 31, 2005 3:05 pm**

Wobbly,

It's a real shame you have to stop building for the winter. I've enjoyed following this thread and appreciate your help/advance while building my C17.

Your hull is a beauty!

George

Posted: **Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:06 am**

Well, it feels like its been a really long winter!

But, its finally over (although I can't say that summer is here yet!). So, this last weekend I finally managed to get back to the boat!

Ah, daylight:

I've inspected inside the boat, and it seems to have survived the winter really well. There are some tiny patches of mildew, but overall it is dry and sound. Fortunately (for me anyway) it's been an unusually dry winter - to the point of banning the use of hosepipes as of April 3rd in order to conserve water. Not so good for the garden.

Before wrapping up last year, I decided to put a coat of epoxy on the transom, just seal it. Well that didn't work out to well. I'm guessing that as I did it late in the day, some dew had formed on the wood as the epoxy didn't end up sticking very well.

In the pic you can see where the "good" epoxy (from taping previously) and the "bad" epoxy meet:

The other thing that made me think the wood was wet, was the high level of blush present that I had to wash off. Oh well, live and learn.

And, so, back to sanding:

Belt sander all the way - all the old epoxy has been removed, and we're ready (again) to glass the transom. This time I'll wait until conditions are right, and do it wet-on-dry, as I did the hull.

Its good to be working again.

Wobb.

My Gallery

Posted: **Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:25 am**

Hey, finally! Looks pretty good for being wrapped up all winter. Keep us posted as usual. Going for a late season splash?

-Dave

Posted: **Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:53 am**

Welcome back Wobb! Looks like we'll be racing to a finish. Just now our weather has picked up to the point where I can start mixing sticky stuff again. Our winter was just the opposite, the wettest on record. Vancouver came within one day of breaking the all time record for most consecutive days of rain. 40 days with measurable precip. The upside is that the mildew comes off easily with a dry Scotchbrite pad and I'm not finishing any plywood surfaces bright.

Posted: **Sun May 07, 2006 4:30 pm**

OK,

We're working again, in-between the typical April/May showers which seem to always happen on weekends.

So, I've painted the keel and the strakes with epoxy, in preparation for sanding (again) and final sealing of the hull.

Also, I have finally sealed the lower side panels, as well as sanding the upper side panels (which were sealed last autumn) in preparation for (epoxy) priming for paint.

Since then, started on the rub-rails - try as I might, I could not get the wood to bend to the curve of the gunwales, so eventually (and I cut this last autumn as well) I kerfed the laminates towards the bow. Works for me.

Got clamps?

And, in-between times, have been slowly sanding my bow down to create a flat spot for the bow eye to rest against:

.

The transom has been glassed as well, waiting to be faired and sanded. I have been doing so much sanding the past month that Elton John's song "I'm Still Standing" has being going through my head as "I'm Still SANDING" endlessly while my hands vibrate with the RO sander. Ugh!

Next step, well, um, sanding the transom to prepare for fairing, and uh, again, sanding the keel in preparation for some fillets on the sides, and, uh, sanding the strakes in preparation for the final coating of epoxy for painting.

Did anyone ever mention that sanding is the biggest part of building a boat? Not to me they didn't!

Later.

Wobb.

Posted: **Sun May 07, 2006 5:13 pm**

Oh, and one more pic for you:

Wobb.

Posted: **Mon May 08, 2006 9:11 am**

WobblyLegs wrote:OK,

Did anyone ever mention that sanding is the biggest part of building a boat? Not to me they didn't!

Wobb.

SHHHH! It's a secret!

Posted: **Mon May 08, 2006 12:29 pm**

SSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

it's a secret that its a secret...

Posted: **Mon May 08, 2006 12:51 pm**

Seems to me that I remember signing a non disclosure agreement when we joined the forums. About sanding.

Posted: **Mon May 08, 2006 1:00 pm**

Yoda wrote:Seems to me that I remember signing a non disclosure agreement when we joined the forums. About sanding.

I know that you know that I know... but do they know? If its a secret, they are not supposed to know? Then how do they know not to tell?

The C17 is looking good waiting to break out of its cocoon and plane away. Does it fit in the tent without pressing against the ends? If not, do you lay cloth over it to protect it from a beating from the tarp in a wind? The transom looks like nothing was leaning or scraping against it all winter...

ks

Posted: **Mon May 08, 2006 5:36 pm**

ks8 wrote:
Yoda wrote:Seems to me that I remember signing a non disclosure agreement when we joined the forums. About sanding.
I know that you know that I know... but do they know? If its a secret, they are not supposed to know? Then how do they know not to tell?

The C17 is looking good waiting to break out of its cocoon and plane away. Does it fit in the tent without pressing against the ends? If not, do you lay cloth over it to protect it from a beating from the tarp in a wind? The transom looks like nothing was leaning or scraping against it all winter...

ks

OK, I won't mention parchment with gritty stuff stuck to it again (well, today anyway).

ks, if you look at the pic you'll see a clamp at each corner - they're nice and smooth and stick out enough to hold the tent away from the boat. The 'doors' are connnected to the side frame with bungee toggles, so they stretch enough to allow the doors around the back of the boat.

I managed to fit the third rub-rail layer tonight - port No. 2. three more to go. I can only do one side at a time, having them alternately overlapping at the bow. Still, should manage to get them finished before the end of the week, then some more, uh, yeah, well more of that dusty stuff on the weekend.

Wobb.

Posted: **Tue May 09, 2006 12:22 am**

WobblyLegs wrote:I managed to fit the third rub-rail layer tonight - port No. 2. three more to go. I can only do one side at a time, having them alternately overlapping at the bow. Still, should manage to get them finished before the end of the week, then some more, uh, yeah, well more of that dusty stuff on the weekend.

This week I'm also trying to finish up rubrail and trim, in a tent...

Those small mahoghany splinters I could live without.

I'll post to my thread later this week... Now I understand the clamps. My south tent side is in total shreds again. Time to replace. Hope yours holds up well until you are ready to launch. I've occasionally had birds and other beasts find the sheltered boat a convenient roost. Have you had any guest crew yet?

Can't wait to see that C17 ready to plane. The boat looks very roomy. Consequently, it looks like you have a tighter work area than me. It will be very worth it when you are done.

Posted: **Tue May 09, 2006 6:30 pm**

ks8 wrote:I've occasionally had birds and other beasts find the sheltered boat a convenient roost. Have you had any guest crew yet?

If you can call our oldest cat "guest crew" then yes - he's laid claim to the thing, in the manner that tomcats do.

So apart from cleaning dust, I also have to eliminate the cat-wee smell. I hope it doesn't stay.

It's a real problem as he sleeps on top of the boat, and I'm preparing to seal and paint pretty soon - and I really, really don't want to go outside one morning to find a cat epoxy-glued to a boat. I mean, what do you do? Shave the cat off the boat, or cut the wood????

I looked at pics of your "tent" by the way - there's enough piping there to plum my whole house!!!!

N-i-c-e looking boat though.

Wobb.

Oh, and rub-rail layer number four (st'bd No 2) stuck on tonight!!

Posted: **Tue May 09, 2006 6:39 pm**

WobblyLegs wrote:and I really, really don't want to go outside one morning to find a cat epoxy-glued to a boat. I mean, what do you do? Shave the cat off the boat, or cut the wood????

AH HAAAAAAAAAA ! Kitty-rub-rail?

Possibly a kitty figurehead?

Posted: **Tue May 09, 2006 10:55 pm**

Makes for purr-fect laminations...

Posted: **Wed May 10, 2006 9:31 am**

I checked with S3 and kitty fur is one of the additives they recommend for building stronger fillets. Another alternative is baby seal tongues. Okay, too much. I've got mice in my garage and I keep thinking I'm going to have one pop out of my drainage holes or something when I'm out on the water. And if it happens when I'm with my wife, it's going to quickly turn into a "save the mouse" mission.

Wobbly, I was thinking about your boat all winter- as were you I'm sure. It's nice to see you back at it.

Posted: **Wed May 10, 2006 9:52 am**

MadRus wrote:I checked with S3 and kitty fur is one of the additives they recommend for building stronger fillets.

I was thinking of asking about that..., thanks for doing the research. I'll post pics of three bald-shaven cats once I start working on the inside.

MadRus wrote:Wobbly, I was thinking about your boat all winter- as were you I'm sure. It's nice to see you back at it.

As was I, and it is s-o-o-o-o-o good to be doing something again. It was a long, long winter for me.

Wobb.

Posted: **Wed May 10, 2006 12:52 pm**

I watched the weather on the beeb yesterday and you actually have house martins back for the Spring! Wow way to go UK

We had a very warm spot in April - some people went swimming - but temperatures are still up and down like a yoyo. Be carefull with that epoxy man!

I could tell some horrible UK grade jokes about cats but we have to be carefull about those who don't have the same sense of humour... It is a lot like curry - different strengths for different folk (yes I eat full on Indian strength curry, how did you guess?)

Cheers

Tony

Posted: **Sat May 13, 2006 5:11 am**

Finished the last layer of side rubrails on Thursday night, and spread peanut butter all over the transom yesterday (Fri).

Today, I think, will be mostly playing with my little Makita random orbital thingy.

Posted: **Sun May 14, 2006 4:05 pm**

OK, so I didn't get to sand the transom (fairing is still a bit 'spongey' as I used the slow mix) so I put some finishing touches to the sides where the panels overlap using a fairing mixture and a plastic teaspoon.

I'm planning on doing something similar where the keel joins the hull. Then, some sealing....

Posted: **Mon May 15, 2006 6:50 pm**

WobblyLegs wrote:Finished the last layer of rubrail on Thursday night, and spread peanut butter all over the transom yesterday (Fri).

There you are WobblyLegs!!

I was looking in the wrong forum for your input. I looked in the Builder Galleries for you and saw the lastest post (#116) but no comments in the forum until I searched and found you in the "Builder's Progress Forum".

I have now finished taping and doing some light fairing using Quick Fair in some spots to smooth out those tape edges.

Before I start my fiberglassing, I'm going to coat my whole Hull with its first layer of epoxy resin to seal out any potential moisture that might get into my plywood. Next, with the help of my wife, I'll begin the layout and laminating the hull with fiberglass and epoxy. I've decided to break this into quarters such that I'm not trying to cover too much area at once and get caught making a mess of fiberglassing my Hull. Speaking of Hull, yours looks great with the "peanut butter". What are you mixing to make your "peanut butter"?

I will be posting some more pictures this week. Its not many, but they will show some of the progress that I've made.

Wobbly keep up the good work. You are inspiration for me to try and do as well as you are doing with your boat.

Regards,

Billtwo

Posted: **Tue May 16, 2006 5:23 am**

BillTwo wrote:Speaking of Hull, yours looks great with the "peanut butter". What are you mixing to make your "peanut butter"?

Hey there BillTwo, I was wondering how your build was going...

This is the stuff I use for fairing:

Basically a micro-balloon mix that they say easy to sand, but I guess its relative

I get about two, maybe three square-feet sanded per disc on my sander, so you can imagine my pile of used discs is still growing. For fairing, I've found that 4 tablespoons per stroke of the epoxy pumps give an easy to spread mixture, while 5 spoons is perfect to fill, like on the side of the boat. It's real hard on the wrist to mix though, and I'm having to make my own quarter inch thick mixing sticks so they don't break.

Looking forward to seeing your pics...

Wobb.

Posted: **Tue May 16, 2006 2:17 pm**

BillTwo wrote:Wobbly keep up the good work. You are inspiration for me to try and do as well as you are doing with your boat.

Regards,

Billtwo

Yea, me too. Wobbly, you C17 is looking great. Hopefully, here will be a C17 in my future, but with a CC instead of a cabin. I am following both your's and Glcost's progrss, enjoying every post.

Build On!

Jerry

Posted: **Tue May 16, 2006 2:40 pm**

Jerry-rigged wrote:I am following both your's and Glcost's progrss, enjoying every post.

Build On!

Jerry

I haven't seen any activity on George's thread and pix for a while - I guess Washington is as wet as I've heard...

He's doing a nice job.

Posted: **Tue May 16, 2006 4:42 pm**

Hi Wobbly,

I'm still around and keeping an eye on yours and Billtwo's progress. I'm fortunite to have a garage to keep my boat in, but I have to roll it outside to work on. So I had to stop over the winter too. I started fairing earlier in the spring when we had a dry saturday or sunday.

The weathers changed now, but my building permit finally came through. I was going to build a workshop before starting the C17, but the city government wasn't cooperating and wouldn't grant me a permit to build it. I got impatient waiting and decided to start building the boat. This spring I finally got the permit and there's a time limit, so I've been working on it among other things.

If I could only quit my job and work on my hobbies fulltime, than I'd be in heaven.

George

Posted: **Tue May 16, 2006 4:45 pm**

glcost wrote:If I could only quit my job and work on my hobbies fulltime, than I'd be in heaven.

George

You and me both...!

Posted: **Wed May 17, 2006 2:00 pm**

glcost wrote:
If I could only quit my job and work on my hobbies fulltime, than I'd be in heaven.

George, I couldn't pass that comment by - you, Wobbly, myself and most (I believe) of those on this forum who are still working feel the same way.

I'm working out of my garage and I am considering building a separate Utility Building but at this point I'm using all the little spare time that I have building my boat. That will be my next project. Until then, I'll just have to make due in my garage.

I have entered five more pictures to my folder in the gallery (under "OB17"). Here's one of them (it's not the best picture considering I'm no photographer and have poor lighting in my garage):

I have just finished putting resin on both halves of the Bottom of the Hull. As you can see, beyond the glare, light spots round and beneath the tape. This is Quick fair and putty seams that you see at the chine. Good thing I'm painting my Hull.

My next task is putting resin on the sides and the begining of fiberglassing. Then the task of fairing the Hull which include the "Secret" process that no one likes to do or talk about.

Wobbly

Thanks for the feedback on the "Peanut Butter" and details and such. As you can see, my attempt at fairing the tape edges and the filling-in of low spots stand out quite a bit.

Regards,

Billtwo

Posted: **Tue May 30, 2006 10:57 am**

We're supposedly experiencing a drought here in the South-East of England, but its apparently come close to being the wettest May on record. So, the past two weeks have been kinda frustrating.

But, I have managed to do bits here and there, and am making progress.

So, I have no more holes to drill in the boat. No more bits of wood to stick on the boat. No more fibre-glassing to do. I am ready now to start preparing for painting.

Well, I do actually have a couple of holes left, for cockpit and anchor locker draining, and of course, mounting an outboard. But that is later. Much later.

Latest pics...

A dry fit of the bow eye. I know it looks a bit chunky, but I like being able to fit a couple of fingers in there and being able to pull - some I've seen on production boats look like nothing more than slightly thick wire.

Final laminations of the rub rail done - three layers each side and on the transom.

And, a spot of tidying up - a fairing mix making fillets either side of the keel, then sanded down smooth. I made a curved sanding block from a piece of pine - worked a treat.

Next, a (very little) bit of sanding here and there just to rough up some smooth spots of epoxy (got all week to do that) and then some sealing layers of epoxy over the whole boat.

Later.

Tim.

PS, BillTwo - I saw your post about fairing on your boat, but others had answered your questions before I saw the post. Nice looking hull.

Posted: **Sun Jun 04, 2006 4:14 pm**

First layer of sealing epoxy on!!!

Feeling very sticky

Posted: **Sun Jun 04, 2006 4:26 pm**

Nice! Keep us posted. I, for one, am watching with great interest, but I'm trying not to reply and fill up your thread, which has managed to stay pretty clean so far..

Posted: **Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:55 am**

Very nice work, well done.

Cheers,

S.D.-

Posted: **Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:01 am**

Daaamn....! this thing is beautiful....Wobblyâ€¦.. you are doing one heck of a job...

I don't understand how you can make the wood grains show from under the fiberglass and fairing compound...

Posted: **Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:53 am**

baba101 wrote:I don't understand how you can make the wood grains show from under the fiberglass and fairing compound...

baba, there's no glass or fairing on the upper side panels. I have glassed (and faired) around the chine and 'up' (down?) the lower side panels as per the plans. I know some builders are glassing the sides, but I'm trying to keep weight to a minimum. Also, I'm not planning on using it as an icebreaker

.

Also, the upper and lower panels overlap each other by 6 inches, the full length of the boat, so is about half an inch thick there and is plenty strong enough.

Did you know "baba" is Zulu for "Father?"

Anyway, the latest: I have epoxied the whole boat (as per my previous post) and now sanded the whole thing again, and epoxied the whole thing again and now consider it waterproof.

Its not "showroom" smooth as you can see in this pic, but certainly smooth enough for me (and the fact that I want to actually get around to using the boat sometime in the (near?) future...

So, now its back to sanding. FOR THE LAST TIME!!!!!! (on the outside anyway

)

Thanks for all the comments guys - its great encouragement!!

Build on.

Tim.

Posted: **Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:30 pm**

So.... no prizes for guessing what I've been up to today...

55 discs later...

Posted: **Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:05 pm**

55 is a lot of discs. Are you using a relatively fine grit? For fairing before painting with a high build primer, I would not use anything finer than 80 grit.

Posted: **Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:29 pm**

Evan_Gatehouse wrote:55 is a lot of discs. Are you using a relatively fine grit? For fairing before painting with a high build primer, I would not use anything finer than 80 grit.

Hi Evan,

I'm using 120 grit - this is my final preparation before painting, no primer, which is why I'm getting it smooth at this stage. I'm going to paint with International 'Perfection' two part, which for GRP (which this essentially is) states no primer necessary and sand with 220-320 grit paper. So, I'm compromising with 120...

Also, I think the discs are a bit crappy. I've used 3M paper (by hand) which is great, but cannot find the same for my RO sander.

Posted: **Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:41 pm**

I feel your pain! I've purchased 'Perfection' as well for my OB17 but I'm using an Interlux 'sanding' primer. Can't remember the name (yellow and white 1 litre can) but it was the recommended primer for coating epoxy. Are you going to spray or roll and tip?

Posted: **Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:50 pm**

Lucky_Louis wrote:Are you going to spray or roll and tip?

Roll and tip...

I found with rolling epoxy on, a good thing is to soak the roller completely before starting to roll on (like, really saturate), then there are less bubbles to pop later...

I'm knackered now...

g'night.

Tim

Posted: **Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:18 pm**

I spoke with an Interlux staffer about Perfection. I realize they want to sell product, and so an emphasis on primer, but they also stated that there may be problems on an epoxy substrate, depending on whether it is amine based or poly amine based. Their primer will function as a compatible interface to their topcoats, including Perfection, on either amine or poly amine epoxies, but, if I remember right, there will be problems with their topcoats, I think it was on amine based epoxies, which I think S3 may be. You may want to have them clarify this to your situation since Epoxy is not as broad a category as GRP. Primers are not just for fairing or for selling. They are sometimes very necessary.

I don't know which epoxy you have been using or whether or not you know if it is amine or poly amine. Maybe make that phone call? I hope this saves you trouble more than giving you trouble.

ks

Posted: **Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:32 pm**

I'd also recommend primer. All the 2 part paints are very very thin. To get sufficient coverage 3 coats are usually required.

If you're painting something like white over a darker wood, even more coats may be required. The primer not only prepares the surface and is easy to sand, it also makes for an cheaper coating than lots more coats of the finish coat of Perfection.

A quart of primer is very cheap compared to the cost of the paint. It is totally worth it and required in my view.

I've painted my old boat twice with 1 part Brightsides and the primer did a very good job of creating a nice even surface ready for the finish coats. It also shows any flaws that need fixing before that expensive finish coat goes on...

Posted: **Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:36 pm**

55 more discs?

Posted: **Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:09 am**

2 Questions/solutions:
1) I noticed discs last a lot longer if you reduce the orbital speed. I think excessive speed creates too much friction, and epoxy goes soft, gumming the pads. I reduced speed, and got better results.
2) Have you sourced your 2 pack yet? I used perfection, and was encouraged to use primer, which was also 2 pack. Dont bother with the chandlers, they know very little and charge the earth. Give Barry a call at Dauntless Boat Yard, 07833 562536, and be prepared for some ripe language!

Posted: **Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:38 am**

Thanks guys for the input.

A couple of phone calls too. Primer it is.

Posted: **Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:02 pm**

With primer, the surface it is to be applied to can be a bit more scratched up for more bite. If you just brought it all down with 120 grit, that may be alright, but check the primer app notes. you may need to go over it one more time by hand with a slightly rougher grit to scratch it up more... nothing compared to what you did with 55 discs though!

Certainly go with the primer recommended for the topcoat. Stick with the same manufacturer and finish system when you can. They match their products for good reason. I've got to go grind biax...

Posted: **Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:56 pm**

ks8 wrote:Certainly go with the primer recommended for the topcoat. Stick with the same manufacturer and finish system when you can. They match their products for good reason. I've got to go grind biax...

I spoke to International this morning - their suggested procedure (after I told him what I had done so far) is two coats of "Interprotect" primer followed by two coats of Perfection undercoat.

I have this now, the boat is acceptably sanded according to them, and I will be putting the first coat on in about an hour from now. Just waiting for the sun to get a bit lower so that the boat is in my neighbour's house's shadow.

I'll post a pic in a few hours time (if all goes well

)

Thanks again for your (and everyone else's) input.

Tim.

Posted: **Fri Jun 09, 2006 4:08 pm**

OK, Primer on the bottom...

I obviously have something to learn about using this stuff. I presume it needs to go on thick (which this didn't - my fault for trying to extend the coverage of what I had)? Also, I need more of it!

And, it causes my foam rollers to disintegrate...

So, tomorrow, more rollers, and more primer...

Wobb.

Posted: **Fri Jun 09, 2006 4:27 pm**

The wrong foam rollers can ruin your day - and a few extra sanding disks

Posted: **Fri Jun 09, 2006 4:55 pm**

Yep. That stuff has got some mean solvents in it. When you shop for rollers, get another brand or two while there. Next priming session, dip a little bit of the other two in some primer and let it sit. Then you can take a look see later if the other brands turned into ooze.

Posted: **Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:17 pm**

OK, so this is how it goes...

Primer on (well, most of it when this pic was taken)...

Sand off...

I have to sand the sides, then I'm ready for undercoat...

Posted: **Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:29 am**

I got pretty good results with the short pile rolers. Ok for primer, as I sanded this for key anyway. If you can't get short pile, give a long pile one a haircut!

Posted: **Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:51 am**

fmiles wrote:I got pretty good results with the short pile rolers. Ok for primer, as I sanded this for key anyway.

For the primer only? Does the short pile work for a gloss finish?

T

Posted: **Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:59 am**

Wobbly,

Boat is looking really nice.!!!!

I bet you were hot under your tent this weekend

Posted: **Mon Jun 12, 2006 4:34 am**

I sprayed the top coat. I had exactly the same problems with my primer, it shredded the foam rollers pretty quick, so changed to short pile.. I think its possible to get good results with the foam rollers, but you definately need to change them regularly (you know, when it feels like its sticking, and sounds different when rollering). Also, if you are really having problems applying primer, add a little thinners, not too much. Let this cure properly before you apply successive coats, otherwise you end up with solvent entrapment.
Incidentally, there is talk of some good foam roller covers on the market. might be worth looking at these as a possible solution
http://www.cfsnet.co.uk/acatalog/CFS_Ca ... TEM_3.html

Posted: **Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:27 pm**

WobblyLegs wrote:
fmiles wrote:I got pretty good results with the short pile rolers. Ok for primer, as I sanded this for key anyway.
For the primer only? Does the short pile work for a gloss finish?

T

If you are not spraying on your topcoat, then the alternative is roll and tip. You roll on the topcoat a section at a time, and then immediately follow it up with a brush, lightly *tipping* the rolled on paint to smooth and break bubbles. The roll helps ensure a good and evenly applied amount of topcoat, but the brush smooths it all out. It is one of those things that would be good to practice in an area that no one will see, or on some scrap. Remember, the topcoat you are using is not water-based, so test the roller first to see if it can handle the solvents. It would be a shame to see that nice prep work turn into a mess, especially with paint that ain't cheap!

I am no expert with roll and tip, and have no experience with the topcoat you will be using. Maybe someone else will have some gems of wisdom before you mix paint?

What will you be doing with the rubrail? I see you stopped short with the primer.

Posted: **Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:46 pm**

maxgsx wrote:I bet you were hot under your tent this weekend

You're so right there. Even hotter today! SWMBO had to drag me away to the pub (the Albany, opposite Hampton Court Palace) for lunch yesterday 'cos she thought the neighbours had had enough of listening to my RO sander.

A nice afternoon spent drinking German beer and watching boats go past on the Thames. Encouragement indeed. BTW, there was a Monterey "180 FS" moored at the pub's jetty, about 6" longer than my project - nice looking boat with a seriously mean looking Mercruiser outdrive. I got home and looked it up on the 'net - that thing weighs over a tonne!!!!!! No thanks!!!

Also, an invitation to get on yer bike and come have a look is always open - pm me...

fmiles wrote:I had exactly the same problems with my primer, it shredded the foam rollers pretty quick, so changed to short pile..

I tried the short-pile rollers today with my first coat of undercoat - definitely last longer than the foam, but start to shed fluff after about 10 minutes. It does put the paint on nicely though. If I had the means to spray, I would, but not an option for me.

ks8 wrote:What will you be doing with the rubrail? I see you stopped short with the primer.

At the moment, the rubrails are a catch-all for drips and mess etc... They're well coated with epoxy, so when I'm done painting, I'll sand all the crud off them. I'm hoping to leave them bright. Time will tell.

And, a pic of today's effort - first layer of undercoat, to be followed by another in the morning:

Regards,

Tim.

Posted: **Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:45 pm**

And...

Fully undercoated...

Posted: **Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:29 pm**

Wobbly,

Her hull looking beautiful. I think you'll be the first to flip a C17.

Cheers to ya!

George

Posted: **Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:18 pm**

Wobbly,

You sure do nice work. That's going to be a real beauty when she's done.

Cheers!

Posted: **Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:40 pm**

OK, the bottom and lower sides are now painted.

The whole boat has had two coats of International epoxy primer, followed by two coats of their white undercoat, and now the bottom and lower sides have three coats of "Mediterranean White" completeing that stage of painting.

It's not easy painting gloss over gloss - can't see where you've been - but what I did was paint the first two coats rolling length ways, and the final coat very slowly rolling cross ways, making sure that every bit of the hull was evenly covered. There is a roller texture to it, but short of spraying its as good as I can do.

So, here it is:

There are some runs, especially underneath the spray rails (on the lower side panels), but I will live with that in order to get the boat afloat.

Oh, and I was all set on the roll-and-tip method, but whatever bubbles appeared in the paint disappeared by them selves. I guess I was lucky (it helps to really squeeze the roller into the tray to saturate it on the first pickup). What isn't good though is that there are some tiny speckles of roller-foam in the paint, I think from when the rollers were made (cut to size). It helps to give the rollers a spin or five on the handles - you can see little bits of foam flying from them...

That's it until I start playing with the blue stuff.

Next update in a week or so, methinks.

Regards, and have fun guys.

Tim.

Posted: **Sat Jun 17, 2006 8:38 pm**

I hope the outside of my hull looks even half as nice as that! Great Job!

I'm hoping my trim work will distract from a less than perfect finish. You've got no worries there!

Posted: **Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:10 am**

So, this is the checklist...

Stage 1, build the hull. Done.

Stage 2, fair the hull. Done, eventually.

Stage 3, paint the hull. Done - Wooooohoooooo!

It has been a long process, but looking at it now all that sanding is a distant memory and well, well worth it. I'm sure it will happen again. Mmmm, still very partial to a Maia 24. Later.

So, now I need to tab the frames to the hull, disassemble the framework holding it all together and figure out a way to turn it over.

Oh, and find some volunteers to help me do it!

There are some more pics here.

I think I might rest for a bit, but then again, I have to build a cradle for the boat to rest on after turning. Maybe start on that tomorrow.

Later,

and keep building.

It can rain now!

Tim.

ps. MadRus, if you read this, I'm sorry you've decided to leave us. I think there is more on this forum worth staying for than the times when it gets silly.

Posted: **Sun Jun 25, 2006 8:16 pm**

Beautiful job, Wobbly! I'm amazed at the mirror finish you've got on that hull using a roll and tip technique - if you hadn't told us I would have thought it was a spray job.

I've followed your progress on this hull from day one - I'll bet it feels great to have the hull build stage completed! You will enjoy the rest of the building and fitout (once you've managed to find enough volunteers to flip her, that is!).

Again, congratulations on a superb job.

Mike

Posted: **Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:13 am**

Mike Adams wrote:I'll bet it feels great to have the hull build stage completed!

Mike

Thanks Mike,

The last roll of paint, the last tip, a slow walk-around to check all is OK (a couple of small fuzzy spots but I would have done more damage than good trying to touch-up), step back and,

...a huge sense of relief more than anything else.

I actuallly sat around and did mostly nothing for the rest of the day.

Oh, and its been raining for most of this morning.

Posted: **Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:30 am**

WobblyLegs wrote:Oh, and find some volunteers to help me do it!

Just shout Tim, no probs.

Cheers
Stu

Posted: **Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:38 am**

WobblyLegs wrote:
Oh, and its been raining for most of this morning.

Well, what do you expect? After all, you ARE in England.....

I was there for two weeks in May and it rained every single day!

Posted: **Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:19 pm**

Mike Adams wrote:
WobblyLegs wrote:
Oh, and its been raining for most of this morning.
Well, what do you expect? After all, you ARE in England..... I was there for two weeks in May and it rained every single day!

Yeah, and it was the wettest May in something like a quarter-century or so! Fortunately it stayed dry in June for me to epoxy-sand-prime-sand-undercoat-sand-paint and then rained the day after I finished!

But that's to be expected - Wimbledon started yesterday as well. That was my deadline as it ALWAYS rains during Wimbledon.

I took the tent down today (its now covered with a tarp again) so I can start preparing for roll-over.

Posted: **Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:27 pm**

Beautiful job!!!!

Posted: **Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:33 pm**

As my 20-something friend would say, S W E E T!

Can I have a ride sometime?

Posted: **Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:33 pm**

Accidental double post. Nice boat, though!

Posted: **Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:36 pm**

That's a gorgeous boat. Well done.

Posted: **Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:50 pm**

A beautiful boat and a testament to what can be done without an enclosed space in which to build!

Ralph

Posted: **Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:52 pm**

what a gloss

Posted: **Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:00 pm**

I say old chap, that is a fine looking boat.

Most excellent Dude !!!

S w e e t !!

Bitchin !!

You do seem to have rodgered the lawn though ! Give your gardener a beating and tell him to get straight on to it.

Posted: **Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:49 pm**

Can I have a ride too?
Looks great!!
Daddy

Posted: **Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:13 pm**

StuM wrote:
WobblyLegs wrote:Oh, and find some volunteers to help me do it!
Just shout Tim, no probs.

Cheers
Stu

Hey Stu,

Thanks for the offer, but the best time for me to do the roll-over looks like July 8th, and I do believe you might be 'otherwise occupied' that day...

To the multiple requests for a ride, if you get yourself over here then we'll do it!!! But, hey, it's not afloat yet!!!

So, this week was spent tabbing the frames to the hull (and buying wood, and cleaning up, and, and, and...) and I've started removing some of the supporting structure underneath the boat in preparation for roll-over.

Today I built a cradle for the boat to rest on (with some free used carpet from the local carpet dealer):

And then, just to make sure, checked to see if the cradle fits the boat (or the other way around).

It does.

Still to do: I think the best thing to go for is a couple of box frames around the boat so we can "roll" rather than have to lift the boat and risk dropping/scratching/etc... So, a box around frame 'E' and another around frame ''C' is the plan for this week.

Later guys, and thanks for all your encouraging comments.

Tim.

Posted: **Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:39 pm**

Tim..it may be just the pic but your cradle looks to me to be too short. You need to keep the hull VERY stable as you crawl around in it to do the interior.
Good Luck

Posted: **Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:11 am**

JASmine wrote:Tim..it may be just the pic but your cradle looks to me to be too short. You need to keep the hull VERY stable as you crawl around in it to do the interior.
Good Luck

Hi JASmine,

Good point, but the cradle won't be the only support under the boat - the reason for building it as it is, is to have something ready for the boat to lie on after rolling over that can easily be moved into place while the boat's being held in the air by my willing volunteers, but, more importantly, I have three sturdy and flat lengths for the keel and the area under the stringers to lie. The hull is still quite flexible, so this seem to be the best way to approach aligning everything. I've also made it in a way that is relatively easy to make small adjustments, so when it comes to installing the frames/bulkheads, I will be able to raise/lower/twist either of the stringer rests to get my diagonal measurements correct.

T

Posted: **Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:27 am**

I think JASmine is concerned about the boat pitching bow down as you roll it over. I was thinking the same when I saw the pictures. You might consider another "bunk" towards the bow.

Dont scratch that beautiful paint job

Posted: **Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:56 pm**

shine wrote:I think JASmine is concerned about the boat pitching bow down as you roll it over. I was thinking the same when I saw the pictures. You might consider another "bunk" towards the bow.

I think the picture might be a bit deceiving. The centre (keel) section of the cradle is 3.4m long, so the boat will be overhanging at the front by about 1.8m or so only. Considering the weight of the transom, methinks it will be OK. Still, I will be keeping a close eye, if only to make sure the paint don't get scratched...

Also, the support of the boat will be increased after rollover - the cradle is the for something to roll it onto, and later some fine-tuning of the hull.

I disassembled the jig tonight - somehow it makes the boat look bigger. It's really strange building in a small environment where I can't get more than about 3m away from it in any direction (which is why I love looking at it from the top floor) - sometimes it looks big, sometimes it looks small. I guess I'll only know what 'size' boat I have once it's on the water....

You can also see that there's quite a bit of trash that seems to have snuck under the boat while I wasn't looking...

Later,

Tim.

Posted: **Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:58 pm**

glcost wrote:Wobbly,

I think you'll be the first to flip a C17.

Cheers to ya!

George

Thanks George, you might be right...

Here goes...

OK, so I built this cradle thingy...

...and the we rolled...

and I posed for a picture (bloody hell, it's big!!)...

...then rolled some more...

...then got the cradle in position...

...and this is IT!

I have to say, leading up to this I was nervous as hell, pacing up and down waiting for the "rollers," but in the end it went really well.

I'm happy!!!!

Posted: **Sun Jul 09, 2006 5:06 pm**

Congrats to you on the splendid beginning and roll of a nice design. I wish you well and hope that the rest of the boat goes as well and is as great to look at as that beautiful blue hull we have been seeing in your builders gallery and on the message board.
I do have a question and I may have missed the answer earlier in this thread, but what type of finish did you use and what is the color?
Keep building,

Posted: **Sun Jul 09, 2006 5:27 pm**

robbiro wrote:Congrats to you on the splendid beginning and roll of a nice design. I wish you well and hope that the rest of the boat goes as well and is as great to look at as that beautiful blue hull we have been seeing in your builders gallery and on the message board.
I do have a question and I may have missed the answer earlier in this thread, but what type of finish did you use and what is the color?
Keep building,

Thanks robbiro,

I did the roll-and-tip method, using International two-part polyurethane. The white is "Mediterranean White" and the blue is "Royal Blue."

A word of warning though - I went through twenty rollers as they keep disintegrating due to the solvents in the paint!

Tim.

Posted: **Sun Jul 09, 2006 8:35 pm**

Good on you Wobbly. Your off and running.

Posted: **Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:17 pm**

Awesome!

Posted: **Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:26 am**

Looking through the piccies, 3 people and the job was done. Doddle! then the last picture shows 7!
Were they the backup team

Posted: **Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:39 am**

Quick get it covered before it rains!

While on weather jokes they say that in Northern Brittany there are two seasons: Winter and the afternoon of August the 15th...

I would like to attract the attention of everyone to the interior - no visible epoxy runs! Wobbly are you a surgeon? That thing is so clean to be unbelievable.

Cheers

Tony

Posted: **Mon Jul 10, 2006 4:12 am**

fmiles wrote:Looking through the piccies, 3 people and the job was done. Doddle! then the last picture shows 7!
Were they the backup team

fmiles, you're right - 3 of us got it over, but it took 5 (just to be safe) to lift it off the ground and carry it over onto the cradle.

The rest were there to drimk the beer....

Posted: **Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:46 am**

WobblyLegs wrote:fmiles, you're right - 3 of us got it over, but it took 5 (just to be safe) to lift it off the ground and carry it over onto the cradle.

The rest were there to drimk the beer....

Sounds about right for a rollover party to me.

Posted: **Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:10 pm**

Whaaooo that's a big boat, Wobbly. I love the picture of you standing next to her half turned over and the one from above.

You don't know how easy you make building mine. All I have to do is follow your lead.

The paint looks perfect too, very fair, smooth and glossy.

I'll raise a glass in your honor tonight!

George

Posted: **Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:12 pm**

WobblyLegs wrote: Here goes...

OK, so I built this cradle thingy...

...and the we rolled...

and I posed for a picture (bloody hell, it's big!!)...

...and this is IT!

I have to say, leading up to this I was nervous as hell, pacing up and down waiting for the "rollers," but in the end it went really well.

I'm happy!!!!

Wobbly,

I can feel your anxiety when you started flipping your boat. Since I've had the opportunity to see inside your boat after final rollover, I didn't realize or had forgotten that you only have 2 stringers running the length of your boat - mine (OB17) has 3.

You've done a wonderful job - good quality workmanship. All your frames and stringers seem to fit perfectly. After looking at how perfectly everything fits (frames & stringers) inside your Hull, I need to crawl under mine (which is still bottom-side-up) and check how things are fitting in my Hull.

Again, great job and BOD (Build On Dude)!!

Regards,

BillTwo

P.S. I finally corrected my problem with the gooey mess that I made fiberglassing, but it took two weeks to correct. I'm just now finishing the last of the fiberglassing (Port side) of my Hull. After correcting my epoxy error, I believe now that I can repair just about any fiberglass and/or epoxy damage. Now to look under my Hull

Posted: **Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:34 pm**

So, all the taping has been done inside the boat now - over the last week or so did the keel and inside of the chines, and yesterday did the tape on the transom to sides and bottom.

Today, been cutting wood, for the first time this year - makes a change!

I need a large flat area to roll out the bi-ax fabric to measure and cut it, and the only way I can do this is to lay out a couple of sheets of 12mm ply, and lay the cloth out on that. Problem: getting to that ply... (all my frames have been stacked up against it) - so, I'm using the boat as storage for the frames, and have used the time to cut each frame to it's final shape just before stacking in the boat...

What we have here is frame 'C' (cabin aft bulkhead) standing upright, frame 'B' laying against the port side behind that, frame 'D' underneath 'C', 'E' lying under 'D' and 'A' not visible under all of it...

I have more pics in the album as well...

Posted: **Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:42 pm**

Woobly,

You should be ashamed of yourself !!!

Your paint finish is so rough and your fillets and glasswork is scruffy

Seriously, you are making a wonderful job of your boat, hope you can get loads done before the weather turns.

Just one question........in the pictures of you and your mates flipping the hull, there doesn't appear to be a way out of your garden !!

Is the finished boat being craned out ???

There was a guy local to me who build a 55ft steel narrowboat behind his bungalow and that was craned out over the roof. I have a picture somewhere, very impressive??

Posted: **Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:38 am**

maxgsx wrote:Your paint finish is so rough and your fillets and glasswork is scruffy

No, Max, that's my lawn your talking about...

maxgsx wrote:Is the finished boat being craned out ???

That is the plan. We had our loft converted (doesn't everyone???)(where my "aerial" pics are taken from) and I saw the steel joists being lifted in with a crane, right over where the boat is now, so I know it can be done. Also, found a local crane operator who can do it...

maxgsx wrote:There was a guy local to me who build a 55ft steel narrowboat behind his bungalow and that was craned out over the roof. I have a picture somewhere, very impressive??

That must have been something to see. Also, quite something to build!!!

Posted: **Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:19 pm**

Woobly,

You will be pooing your pants when you see all your years of hard work dangling 40ft up on a 10mm cable !!!!!!!

Will be one hell of a photo though.

A narrowboat isn't really that hard to build; much like building in ply but with a sore back and squashed thumbs.

Are you intending to float this year ??

Posted: **Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:06 pm**

maxgsx wrote:Are you intending to float this year ??

I'm hoping, but not expecting...

Just been "asked" by a client to be available more hours (this happened this morning) that pretty much writes off any work on the boat during the week for the rest of the summer as I would get home too late to do anything.

So, it looks like weekends only now. *@Â£*

Not happy.

Posted: **Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:57 pm**

Hello Wobbly! We're neck and neck but Lucky pulls ahead

. I just laid down the last piece of the inside bottom glass - man, I'd forgotten how much epoxy the big pieces of biaxial drink. Your work looks stunning as usual.

Isn't is great to to take a break from sanding,fairing,sanding,fairing,painting,sanding,painting,sanding,painting? I'll be posting some new pics tonite or tomorrow. I've got the next 8 days off to do nothing but build bateau

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:30 pm**

Lucky_Louis wrote:Man, I'd forgotten how much epoxy the big pieces of biaxial drink.

I'm about to be reminded...

Lucky_Louis wrote:Isn't is great to to take a break from sanding,fairing,sanding,fairing,painting,sanding,painting,sanding,painting?

A change is as good as a holiday. This feels like a world cruise!!!

As to my progress, slow as it is at the moment, I thought I'd update...

Got all the taping finished in the first week of August:

Then I lost a weekend at the beginning of the month to take a short break (and preserve the peace with SWMBO) in Belgium (Bruges - lots of tourists, but a lovely little town)!

Since our return, it's been raining, so it's been difficult to get anything done. Well, on Saturday I decided to bite the bullet and work on the deck in limited space come rain or shine (don't you love the clichÃ©s).

My cutting table (12mm ply that will be the cockpit sole. One day.):

Marked up glass:

Sunday was far to wet to do anything as I didn't want to walk mud into the boat (and there was a bike race on - Capirossi won).

Today, I managed to sand all the remaining lumps of epoxy, vacuum the dust and filings and leaves and spider webs and bits of epoxy out, wipe down with acetone, and roll out one sheet of glass.

It fits:

So, now I wait for a nice warm dry day to spread epoxy over it...

Also a long weekend (3 days, this weekend) coming up, so I really want to be able to start moving ahead by then.

My (after roll-over) album: http://gallery.bateau2.com/thumbnails.php?album=496
My album list: http://gallery.bateau2.comindex.php?cat=12964

Later,

Wobb.

Posted: **Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:19 pm**

WobblyLegs wrote: So, now I wait for a nice warm day to spread epoxy over it...

Sooner than I thought!

Used a roller for most of it, and a brush up front to tab into the corners.

My (after roll-over) album: HERE.
My album list: and HERE.

Later,

Wobb.

Posted: **Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:56 pm**

Well done Wobbly

Looks like you're back on track. Nice not to be sanding, eh?

I took a 2 hour lunch break today and finished tabbing all the joints in my motorwell. Hoping to hang my engine by the weekend.

Carry on then..

Posted: **Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:13 pm**

Lucky_Louis wrote:Nice not to be sanding, eh?

And how!!!

So, the weather forecast for this weekend seems to be mostly rain, and I was sitting in the office this morning with the sun shining, dreading the thought of another wasted (three days this time) weekend.

Solution: I skipped at lunch time, hurtled home and got to it!

Sanded the previous lamination (starboard), vacuumed all the dust out (again), acetone again, rolled out port glass:

Using a roller, started the sticky stuff once more:

And now, it is done!

As far as I'm concerned that is the last major task done. From now on, everything can be done one (relatively small) piece at a time. This took me four and a half hours from start to finish.

I ache everywhere (still not totally over putting my back out on the roll-over) and then I managed to (I suspect) crack a rib or two last weekend doing a luge (without the sled) impersonation down some stairs...

Still, having fun!!!

My (after roll-over) album: HERE.
My album list: and HERE.

Later,

Wobb.

Posted: **Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:04 pm**

I'm amazed at how straight your dotted lines are. I put lines on my cloth too, but they never end up straight.

Posted: **Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:11 pm**

gk108 wrote:I'm amazed at how straight your dotted lines are. I put lines on my cloth too, but they never end up straight.

Maybe Wob puts 'em on afterwards, just to impress the hell out of us?!!

Mike

Posted: **Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:29 pm**

Heck of a lunch break too....

Posted: **Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:02 pm**

Bullet Proof and way too neat! You're raising the bar for us slops!!! Build On, Dude!

Dave

Posted: **Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:33 am**

It's not that great. If you zoom in really close, you can see that one of the dotted lines is 1.25mm longer than all the others. Very shoddy !!!

Posted: **Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:24 am**

maxgsx wrote:It's not that great. If you zoom in really close, you can see that one of the dotted lines is 1.25mm longer than all the others. Very shoddy !!!

Sheez! Everybody's a boatbuilding critic nowadays! Don't let em get to ya Wobbly! You're doing great. I really like your dotted lines even if one or two is a little screwy!

Remember the only critic that matters in your work is you!

Rick

Posted: **Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:36 am**

laporter wrote:
maxgsx wrote:It's not that great. If you zoom in really close, you can see that one of the dotted lines is 1.25mm longer than all the others. Very shoddy !!!

Sheez! Everybody's a boatbuilding critic nowadays! Don't let em get to ya Wobbly! You're doing great. I really like your dotted lines even if one or two is a little screwy!

You know Max was kidding, right?

Posted: **Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:00 pm**

Rick wrote: You know Max was kidding, right?

Hehehe Yup. I thought I stuck a smilie in there but musta misfired! *lol*

Posted: **Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:09 am**

Looking good Wobbly! Now you can get settled in for 'tabbing season'.

Posted: **Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:03 am**

Good job so far....and quick.
If you want to see a C21, nearly finished ,in Littlehampton, West Sussex let me know. It may answer a few questions that you might have.

Posted: **Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:06 pm**

Yeah, awright, I got some of the lines off centre... (where's the raspberry smiley when you need it???).

Thanks for the positive comments though, it's always encouraging!

So, finished laminations, put stringers in, put frames in to hold stringers in place, marked out position of stringers, took it all out again, sanded glass, acetone cleaned glass and now have mostly glued port stringer into place, from transom to just behind frame "C." I'm using matchsticks to hold the stringers off the hull, giving a nice even gap.

I glued behind frame "E" last night, so I was able to take that out and do between "E" and "C" tonight... (without having to climb over "E").

Hopefully I can do aft of frame "E" starboard tomorrow night...

LuckyLouis, a question for you - did you glue in your motorwell sides before frame "E" (assuming it's the same on your boat) or did you put the frame/bulkhead in and then the motorwell sides? I can't seem to decide which is going to be easier, but either way I'm going to have to stretch and contort to do glassing in the back corners...

Percy, I might well take up on that offer!

_______________________________________

My (after roll-over) album: HERE.
My album list: and HERE.

Later,

Wobb.

Posted: **Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:48 pm**

Looking GOOD!

I tabbed in all my frames "A" through "E" and the stringers too before I placed the motorwell sides. I don't know the C17 but on the OB17, the two outside stringers and the engine cutout in the transom defined where the sides went. I had to do some creative trimming to get them to fit around the fillets and glass but that's the order I would follow if doing it again.

PS: You may want to do the cutouts for your chase tubes before gluing the frames down. Cutting an oval or round hole once in place could be a spot awkward.

Posted: **Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:55 pm**

Lucky_Louis wrote:PS: You may want to do the cutouts for your chase tubes before gluing the frames down. Cutting an oval or round hole once in place could be a spot awkward.

Thanks Louis...

I'm not doing any chase tubes - everything is going to be above sole, running through tubes in the sides of the frames.

Under the sole is sealed forever (or will be). Did you do foam?

Tim.

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