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Painted and Completed V12 - with Outboard performance report

Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 5:07 pm
by Rich_L
4 coats of S3 Primer on the inside over a two day period.

The first coat was done just 12 hours after applying the second of two Marinepoxy epoxy coatings with medium hardener on back to back evenings. This way I avoided having to sand either of the epoxy coatings.

I used an inexpensive Wagner Fine Spray HVLP sprayer:
  • Thinned the primer 20% with 50/50 mix of isopropyl alcohol and distilled water per the System Three application guide; and
    Set the sprayer to the highest flow rate of IV.

The only significant lesson learned was that on the outside hull I will attempt to lay down more paint on the first coat. I'll have to do this by moving the sprayer more slowly. This may prevent the orange peel finish that I got.

The orange peel affect is insignificant enough that I actually rather like it for the inside, and would consider not even sanding the primer because it is very even as is. But I'll sand as needed for adhesion of the paint and as practice for the outside hull in case I again get orange peel there.

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The above photos were taken 12 hours after the last primer coat. The primer was still very slightly tacky at this point. This is longer than you might expect from the product literature, and is probably due to the fact that I laid the primer on epoxy coatings that had not yet fully cured. So the combination is likely lengthening the primer cure. Twelve hours after these photos the primer was hardening up nicely.

P.S.
  • The four coats used 8/10 of a gallon of primer.
    Stirring the sediment from the bottom of the can of primer prior to application was harder than dredging New York Harbor - I've done both.
    I strained the thinned primer as it was poured into the sprayer - that was really easy.
Rich

Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 6:16 pm
by JollyLolly
That is one pretty looking boat. I am planning on building the V12 for my next project, and seeing yours has just added to my resolve. :D/

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:53 pm
by Barney
Great job so far, Rich. I've been studying your V12 website carefully since before I started my V12, and have found it to be very useful. I especially benefited from your 'lessons learned' section. Keep up the posting, and looking forward to seeing the finished product! :)

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 1:56 am
by MADwand
White finishes are really beautiful on the inside of FG boats, but damn that's gonna put a beatin on your eyes in the sun!

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:25 am
by Mike Adams
That looks a real nice job, Rich!

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 8:36 pm
by Rich_L
Image
What a whopper image - and the file size is relatively small -
it's linked back to my web site so it apparently gets
overblown going that route!
Anyway...

I waited three weeks after applying the Sytem Three
epoxy-based primer before applying the System Three linear
polyurethane paint with crosslinker.

This allowed the primer plenty of time to cure, of particular
concern because it was applied wet-on-wet to the underlying
two epoxy barrier coats.

I sprayed six coats with crosslinker in six hours, using the
same Wagner Fine Spray equipment as with the primer.
I used the flow setting of III (out of maximum IV) and
did not thin the paint. It was applied at 70 degrees F
and seemed to flow out well enough.

The slight orange peel from the primer, which I did not
attempt to sand out, is still evident in the painted surface.
That's fine with me for the interior.

I also got some uneven, additional gloss were I apparently
over applied the paint in places (see the center seat top).
This would likely disappear with light sanding.

Otherwise, I'm not planning to sand. The bit of roughness
in the surface serves as nonskid as far as I'm concerned.

And I'm absolutely satisfied with the way it looks.
I'm especially pleased with the degree to which my fairing
effort proved sufficient. That would have been the hardest
thing to overcome if not adequate.

You may note that the breasthook, knees, and rubrail are
different color than the interior. They are Orcas White.
The interior is Orcas White tinted by Sherwin-Williams to
closely match their Dover White. Orcas White is a close
match to Sherwin-Williams' Extra White base paint, used
for the less deep shades on any of their color strips. The
deeper shades on any of their color strips require their
other, opaque base - so it's uncertain if Orcas White could
be used to match them. The amount of tinting was a lot less
than the 2-3 oz. that S3 technical support suggested should
be the limit added.

Rich

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:03 pm
by JeffS
Nice job. I used the same sprayer as you did and was very happy with the results. I did not use it for the primer, but was pleased to see that it worked for you. I really liked the system three paints and primers. I could get three coats in a day and no stink. I used a different brand (imeron) for my stenciling and striping. I rolled and tipped this. It worked fine and has a very high gloss. However, I had to wait 16 hours between coats, it smelled bad, and had to be sanded between coats.

Keep up the nice work.

JeffS

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:47 pm
by Rich_L
Image


On the outside, I sanded the primer with up to #150 grit. That was certainly fine enough
because my paint finish did not turn out that
smooth. The color is System Three Orcas White tinted by Sherwin-
Williams to match their Candid Blue. That's the deepest shade that would normally be
based on Sherwin-Williams' Extra White base paint,
which Orcas White approximates. Deeper shades reguire their opaque base paint.

My spraying the WR-LPU color top coat worked best when thinned 20%, and using setting III
(out of IV) on the Wagner Fine Spray.
My first three coats using the IV setting in an effort to reduce orange
peel by laying down more paint were unsuccessful - and I had to sand
the orange peel down. Thereafter, I used the III setting with greater success and applied
five more finer coats - these laid down with
only slight orange peel.

Thereafter, I painted the transom Orcas White.

I then applied System Three WR-LPU clear gloss thinned 20% on top
of it all. I made five attempts at spraying, but each one failed to
provide even gloss. I think the difficulty was two-fold:
  • Preventing overspray onto just painted surfaces which causes surface roughness -
    although I thought I was controlling this with
    careful aiming of the spray gun; but it also seemed to be
    complicated by...
    The more level surfaces of the bottom had uneven gloss, as
    compared to the sides which had more even gloss - I think
    the clear gloss flowed out better on the steeper sides.
Anyway, after five trial and error attempts including standing
on my head, I resorted to the roll and tip method. Hey, it
isn't the finest surface, but it sure is shiney. So with two
coats additional using this method, I'm satisfied.

By the way, if you're counting coats, I'm up to armor plating
(they're all crosslinked) and way over design weight. But I've
completed the painting...

...except for an accent stripe yet to come after it's cured.

Image

Rich

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:10 pm
by Barney
Nice job! What more is there to say?

Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 2:06 pm
by dsouter
A note on Orange Peel. It's an effect of sprayed paint drying.
It happens. Custom painters for cars,motorcycles spend hours wet sanding the effect out before clear coat and between sessions.


Looks great btw!

Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:42 am
by Rich_L
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Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:48 pm
by Barney
Congratulations Rich! Nice job, and well done! 8)

Out of interest, how do you attach your mast partner?

Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:44 pm
by ks8
Very nice Rich! Congratulations. And thanks for the ongoing narrative details. Very helpful.

ks

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:19 am
by PJPiercey
Congratulations Rich! :D

Thats a great looking V12 8)

Paul

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:57 am
by JohnI
Fantastic job! Your workmanship gives me something to strive for on my next boat!

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:30 am
by Rich_L
Barney wrote:Out of interest, how do you attach your mast partner?
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Four latch bolts, locked into holes through the sheer into the rub rail, hold the removable mast partner in place.

I do have one last thing to do show-and-tell with in the near future. I have a 5 1/2
horsepower, 1957 Johnson Seahorse outboard to use for fishing after
building a protective mounting plate. It's a gift from my brother who
bought and restored it mechanically some years ago and has been
maintaining it ever since. I repainted it to near new look while waiting for
the marine plywood to arrive. I've been looking forward to seeing it on
the boat ever since. We both laugh because it reminds us of the 35 hp
which we all learned to water ski behind.

Looking down the road, I'm trying to size up the prospects for a VG18 build in a basement with a
7'-8" ceiling, and even less clearance going out the back door - to say
nothing of the 36" back door needing to be replaced with something a lot
wider. I certainly don't want like the boat built in the bottle - although it
could turn out being Leawood, Kansas' only tourist attraction. :roll:

To everyone who contributes to this forum:
Thank you for all the good advice and words of encouragement. I not
only felt like I knew what I was doing by studying the forum, but I
absolutely enjoyed the banter and camaraderie - and hey, I was leaning
heavily on 'no special woodworking skills required' when I got started.

The experience exceeded my expectations for enjoyment of building and
the quality of the boat. I learned that the words "I'm building a boat"
have a metaphysical signifigance far beyond the matter of fact - I'll bet
you all know what I'm saying.

Good luck to everyone on their ongoing builds, with the boats that they've
splashed, and with builds yet to come.

Rich

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 2:47 pm
by roob76
Nicely done man! Enjoy :P

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 3:28 am
by Barney
That's a great idea for securing your mast partner. I may try somthing similar :D

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 4:12 pm
by Rich_L
Here's the 1957 Johnson 5 1/2 horsepower Seahorse outboard. I haven't yet used it.
Image
Rich

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:01 pm
by MadRus
Rich,

The boat looks awesome. Beautiful work.

-Dave

Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:39 pm
by Barney
Very cute outboard, Rich :lol:

Very nice!!

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:49 pm
by geof
I've been to your web sight and will be feeding off of it through out my project. Really very impressive craftsmanship. And thank you for the tip on building a cardboard model first. Geof Carpenter

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:16 pm
by Rich_L
Image
Here's how the V12 performed with the 5 1/2 horsepower outboard - keep in mind that this 1957 vintage engine weighs 57 pounds:

With only me in the boat (160 pounds), the combination of power, and weight concentrated at the stern, resulted in a greatly elevated bow, and noisey and labored power delivery (cavitation perhaps?) at hull speed (~ 4.4 knots).

But when I added two adult passengers (1 man & 1 wowan), the V12 leveled out and moved along beautifully at hull speed.

So this is a situation, like with a canoe, where you almost need someone up front. Either that, or I'll need to carry a beverage service for six when I go out alone. Oh oh! 8)

Rich

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:21 am
by davekf
Rich_L... I know this post was a while back, but do you remember tinting your S3 topcoat at Sherwin Williams? It was for your v12 I think.
You may note that the breasthook, knees, and rubrail are
different color than the interior. They are Orcas White.
The interior is Orcas White tinted by Sherwin-Williams to
closely match their Dover White. Orcas White is a close
match to Sherwin-Williams' Extra White base paint, used
for the less deep shades on any of their color strips. The
deeper shades on any of their color strips require their
other, opaque base - so it's uncertain if Orcas White could
be used to match them. The amount of tinting was a lot less
than the 2-3 oz. that S3 technical support suggested should
be the limit added.

Rich
In the post, you said that System 3 tech support said you could use up to 2 -3 oz. of tint max. Is that per gal. or quart :?:

I have about a quart that I want to tint for my FL14. I'm thinking that the Orcas white that I bought will just have too much glare on the inside of the boat.

Thanks for any info you can provide.

-Dave :D

Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:45 pm
by Rich_L
Dave:

It was per gallon. I didn't talk to S3 first hand. The S3 comment was reported by another builder who posted it in the forum prior to my boat's paint job.

I pretty much scoured the forum on painting issues (or all issues for that matter) as I built my boat. Looks like you're doing the same if you got to my posts from three years ago.

I can report that my paint job is holding up great, including the hull coats where I had Sherwin-Williams tint Orcas White into a light blue. The only places where I've done any touchup is a very few places where impacts have caused chips in the paint. But even those small chips reveal not failure of paint adhesion, but instead how hard the paint coats are! I did cross-link all of the top coats.

Good luck on your paint job. I think S3 is a good choice. I'd certainly tint again without hesitation if I built again.

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:07 am
by davekf
Thanks for the info :D . I'll be priming the inside within the next week (hopefully), and then on goes the paint.

-Dave :D